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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 07:42:02 AM

Title: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 07:42:02 AM
- Bass (6)
- Terry (5)
- Collins (800k)
- Barbosa (800k)
- Wilcox (800k)

Also, generally expendable in the right deal:

- 2013 1st
- Fab Melo (1)
- 2013 2nd

The cap number is in parentheses.  Altogether we're talking about ~14-15 million.  Maximum money you could probably put in a deal is more like 12-13.

If Danny makes a trade, I'd be okay seeing any of these players / assets go.  But I don't want to trade anybody else unless it's for a major impact player.

Yes, that means the options for trades are very limited.  There's a reason these players are listed as expendable.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: kozlodoev on January 15, 2013, 07:47:10 AM
Based on current rotation, Jason Terry is the only expendable piece we have. Unless someone is going to trade us two rotation-capable big men for Bass + Terry, which I find laughable.

Collins, Barbosa, and Wilcox have zero trade value.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Bankshot on January 15, 2013, 07:53:18 AM
I don't agree that Terry is expendable.  He is not playing well right now, but he is a proven clutch playoff performer.  He'll be there for us in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: alajet on January 15, 2013, 07:55:21 AM
Terry aside, trade value of all other players are next to nothing.
And Terry would only be targeted by another team trying to contend, which means, we will not be getting good pieces in return.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 07:59:01 AM
Based on current rotation, Jason Terry is the only expendable piece we have. Unless someone is going to trade us two rotation-capable big men for Bass + Terry, which I find laughable.

Collins, Barbosa, and Wilcox have zero trade value.

I'd trade Bass + Terry for an upgrade at PF.

Of course, I can't imagine how we could find such a deal.

And yes, the other players are just filler.

So therein lies the difficulty of coming up with a suitable trade based on this roster.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 15, 2013, 08:38:58 AM
I don't agree that Terry is expendable.  He is not playing well right now, but he is a proven clutch playoff performer.  He'll be there for us in the playoffs.

This.

Bass and a pick is my package that I am kicking the tires on to see what center it can get us. Any center. and when all the gm's say I dont want that package I sit tight with what we have.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: jdz101 on January 15, 2013, 08:42:14 AM
- Bass (6)
- Terry (5)
- Collins (800k)
- Barbosa (800k)
- Wilcox (800k)

Also, generally expendable in the right deal:

- 2013 1st
- Fab Melo (1)
- 2013 2nd

The cap number is in parentheses.  Altogether we're talking about ~14-15 million.  Maximum money you could probably put in a deal is more like 12-13.

If Danny makes a trade, I'd be okay seeing any of these players / assets go.  But I don't want to trade anybody else unless it's for a major impact player.

Yes, that means the options for trades are very limited.  There's a reason these players are listed as expendable.

Can I ask why players are being judged as expendable based on their play over a 6 game stretch?

Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: RJ87 on January 15, 2013, 08:46:59 AM
I think its really shortsighted to trade anyone based on a six game sample.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Fafnir on January 15, 2013, 08:48:16 AM
While I love that the C's are playing good basketball finally, I can't say anyone's expendable at the moment. I don't trust the current rotation to continue to work out.

I mean Terry's expendable if Lee/Green/Bradley continue to provide scoring, but I don't want to count on Green to keep this up. The other two I have more faith in, but Bradley's still just coming back himself.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: drax on January 15, 2013, 08:48:38 AM
Bass, Barbosa, first for Millsap?
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Snakehead on January 15, 2013, 08:51:40 AM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: wdleehi on January 15, 2013, 08:59:28 AM
Everyone not named KG, Rondo and Pierce.




The best time to trade a guy is when the fans think he is untradable because of his current play.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Bankshot on January 15, 2013, 09:02:11 AM
Bass, Barbosa, first for Millsap?

I was for trading Bass, but I don't know now.  He's playing pretty good defense as of late.  Maybe he thinks he could lost his starting job to Sully.  Whatever the reason, me likey!
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: kozlodoev on January 15, 2013, 09:03:23 AM
I don't agree that Terry is expendable.  He is not playing well right now, but he is a proven clutch playoff performer.  He'll be there for us in the playoffs.
He's not expendable because he's playing poorly, he's expendable because he's the only redundant piece on a roster with some rotation issues. This doesn't mean he'll be shipped out tomorrow (precisely because of his proven playoff mettle), but in relative terms he's probably cause the least disruption in our rotation if traded.

Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: RJ87 on January 15, 2013, 09:06:34 AM
Everyone not named KG, Rondo and Pierce.




The best time to trade a guy is when the fans think he is untradable because of his current play.

I'm tempted to throw Avery in there too. The more I see him play, the more the idea of him playing on another team bums me out.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 09:08:10 AM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: kozlodoev on January 15, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.
First of all, this is questionable. Why would anyone trade you a better version of Brandon Bass for Brandon Bass. Trades don't happen this way.

Second, the main problem here is we need both Bass (or someone like him) and another capable big man, which to me is a clear indication Bass is not going anywhere unless it's a multiplayer trade with two big men coming back our way.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: danglertx on January 15, 2013, 11:44:23 AM
And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.
First of all, this is questionable. Why would anyone trade you a better version of Brandon Bass for Brandon Bass. Trades don't happen this way.

Second, the main problem here is we need both Bass (or someone like him) and another capable big man, which to me is a clear indication Bass is not going anywhere unless it's a multiplayer trade with two big men coming back our way.

And the answer to your question would be a player on the last year of his deal who isn't a max type player.  The team he is on has no real value in keeping him but a player signed for three years might have value.

Lets use Dallas and Kaman as an example.  He has one year on his contract left and Dallas probably isn't sniffing the playoffs and certainly isn't a contender in the West.  What real value does Kaman have to them?  Trading him for a lessor player might even help them in the lottery if you think about it.

Despite what many people around here think of Bass he is an athletic big who usually has an outstanding mid range game and is money on the free throw line.  If you are building a team of fast penetrating guards who likes getting up and down the floor and want a spot up big who can sink the mid range shot who isn't a liability in the 4th quarter at the line, Bass can have a lot of value.

Now is Bass as good a player as Kaman?  I'd say no way.  But does that make this trade unreasonable?  I'd also say no.  The value of a player isn't always just which player looks better to you.  There are other factors involved.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: kozlodoev on January 15, 2013, 11:46:56 AM
And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.
First of all, this is questionable. Why would anyone trade you a better version of Brandon Bass for Brandon Bass. Trades don't happen this way.

Second, the main problem here is we need both Bass (or someone like him) and another capable big man, which to me is a clear indication Bass is not going anywhere unless it's a multiplayer trade with two big men coming back our way.

And the answer to your question would be a player on the last year of his deal who isn't a max type player.  The team he is on has no real value in keeping him but a player signed for three years might have value.

Lets use Dallas and Kaman as an example.  He has one year on his contract left and Dallas probably isn't sniffing the playoffs and certainly isn't a contender in the West.  What real value does Kaman have to them?  Trading him for a lessor player might even help them in the lottery if you think about it.

Despite what many people around here think of Bass he is an athletic big who usually has an outstanding mid range game and is money on the free throw line.  If you are building a team of fast penetrating guards who likes getting up and down the floor and want a spot up big who can sink the mid range shot who isn't a liability in the 4th quarter at the line, Bass can have a lot of value.

Now is Bass as good a player as Kaman?  I'd say no way.  But does that make this trade unreasonable?  I'd also say no.  The value of a player isn't always just which player looks better to you.  There are other factors involved.
This is a complete nonstarter. A team with close to zero ability to sign free agents in the observable future is not going to trade a rotation-capable player who is under team control for someone who will have to walk or be overpaid next season.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: danglertx on January 15, 2013, 11:54:55 AM
And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.
First of all, this is questionable. Why would anyone trade you a better version of Brandon Bass for Brandon Bass. Trades don't happen this way.

Second, the main problem here is we need both Bass (or someone like him) and another capable big man, which to me is a clear indication Bass is not going anywhere unless it's a multiplayer trade with two big men coming back our way.

And the answer to your question would be a player on the last year of his deal who isn't a max type player.  The team he is on has no real value in keeping him but a player signed for three years might have value.

Lets use Dallas and Kaman as an example.  He has one year on his contract left and Dallas probably isn't sniffing the playoffs and certainly isn't a contender in the West.  What real value does Kaman have to them?  Trading him for a lessor player might even help them in the lottery if you think about it.

Despite what many people around here think of Bass he is an athletic big who usually has an outstanding mid range game and is money on the free throw line.  If you are building a team of fast penetrating guards who likes getting up and down the floor and want a spot up big who can sink the mid range shot who isn't a liability in the 4th quarter at the line, Bass can have a lot of value.

Now is Bass as good a player as Kaman?  I'd say no way.  But does that make this trade unreasonable?  I'd also say no.  The value of a player isn't always just which player looks better to you.  There are other factors involved.
This is a complete nonstarter. A team with close to zero ability to sign free agents in the observable future is not going to trade a rotation-capable player who is under team control for someone who will have to walk or be overpaid next season.

I think you are saying Boston wouldn't trade Bass for Kaman because they wouldn't be able to resign him next year, which is 100% wrong.  Boston very easily could trade for a guy they think gives them a better chance at winning this year with the FULL EXPECTATION AND INTENT on not resigning him to get salary flexibility next year.

In fact, I'm not sure that isn't a good move on Ainge's part.  Just being able to offer slightly more than the free agent minimum can often swing a backup player.  Look no further than Greg Steimsma for evidence of that.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: 2short on January 15, 2013, 11:57:19 AM
not basing it on win streak but whole season
terry-hasn't clicked, if he isn't scoring he brings very little to the team
bass-slump for most of year but has been playing much better defense as of late, sully's play makes him movable if a big can come back
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: kozlodoev on January 15, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
I think you are saying Boston wouldn't trade Bass for Kaman because they wouldn't be able to resign him next year, which is 100% wrong.  Boston very easily could trade for a guy they think gives them a better chance at winning this year with the FULL EXPECTATION AND INTENT on not resigning him to get salary flexibility next year.

In fact, I'm not sure that isn't a good move on Ainge's part.  Just being able to offer slightly more than the free agent minimum can often swing a backup player.  Look no further than Greg Steimsma for evidence of that.
This would be true if the team was indeed getting any sort of salary flexibility next season by not resigning whoever they get, which they aren't.

So as proposed, this constitutes giving away Bass for a half-season rental of a big man who isn't all that great to begin with. Not going to happen.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Chris on January 15, 2013, 11:59:49 AM
And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.
First of all, this is questionable. Why would anyone trade you a better version of Brandon Bass for Brandon Bass. Trades don't happen this way.

Second, the main problem here is we need both Bass (or someone like him) and another capable big man, which to me is a clear indication Bass is not going anywhere unless it's a multiplayer trade with two big men coming back our way.

And the answer to your question would be a player on the last year of his deal who isn't a max type player.  The team he is on has no real value in keeping him but a player signed for three years might have value.

Lets use Dallas and Kaman as an example.  He has one year on his contract left and Dallas probably isn't sniffing the playoffs and certainly isn't a contender in the West.  What real value does Kaman have to them?  Trading him for a lessor player might even help them in the lottery if you think about it.

Despite what many people around here think of Bass he is an athletic big who usually has an outstanding mid range game and is money on the free throw line.  If you are building a team of fast penetrating guards who likes getting up and down the floor and want a spot up big who can sink the mid range shot who isn't a liability in the 4th quarter at the line, Bass can have a lot of value.

Now is Bass as good a player as Kaman?  I'd say no way.  But does that make this trade unreasonable?  I'd also say no.  The value of a player isn't always just which player looks better to you.  There are other factors involved.
This is a complete nonstarter. A team with close to zero ability to sign free agents in the observable future is not going to trade a rotation-capable player who is under team control for someone who will have to walk or be overpaid next season.

While I agree that its a nonstarter, I think its Dallas that doesn't consider it.  The only reason they signed Kaman to that contract was so they could have cap space again this summer to make another run at Howard along with Paul and Smith.  They aren't taking on a contract like Bass'.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: kozlodoev on January 15, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
While I agree that its a nonstarter, I think its Dallas that doesn't consider it.  The only reason they signed Kaman to that contract was so they could have cap space again this summer to make another run at Howard along with Paul and Smith.  They aren't taking on a contract like Bass'.
Kaman was just an example, I guess. Dallas already has Nowitzki, Brand, and Marion -- they have zero need or use for Bass.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Snakehead on January 15, 2013, 12:09:53 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: danglertx on January 15, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
I think you are saying Boston wouldn't trade Bass for Kaman because they wouldn't be able to resign him next year, which is 100% wrong.  Boston very easily could trade for a guy they think gives them a better chance at winning this year with the FULL EXPECTATION AND INTENT on not resigning him to get salary flexibility next year.

In fact, I'm not sure that isn't a good move on Ainge's part.  Just being able to offer slightly more than the free agent minimum can often swing a backup player.  Look no further than Greg Steimsma for evidence of that.
This would be true if the team was indeed getting any sort of salary flexibility next season by not resigning whoever they get, which they aren't.

So as proposed, this constitutes giving away Bass for a half-season rental of a big man who isn't all that great to begin with. Not going to happen.

Ok, not going to go over the salary ramifications because it isn't really why I first answered your question of why a team would trade a better version of Bass for Bass.  I thought I made my point, but instead you got caught up in the minutia of the example.  My point was that teams often trade for a lesser player for a couple of reasons.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 15, 2013, 07:19:42 PM
Terry's been frustrating but I think having a guy who is capable of a red hot shooting/scoring streak off the bench is important.  Though he's dissappointed at times, JET is a guy who can win you a game or 2 in the playoffs with his shooting (Eddie House).  Without Terry, Pierce is really the only one left who can 'go off' (maybe Lee or Green to some exent -- but JET is able to do what Ray or Eddie did with his shot).  I think (hope) JET will show his value soon.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Rtpas11 on January 15, 2013, 07:22:22 PM
Everyone's expendable but Pierce & K.G.

The players I would most definitely FedEx outta here are "Green, Terry, Lee, & Collins
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: nickagneta on January 15, 2013, 07:33:34 PM
I'm not sure expendable is the right word to use for any of our players. I think currently that there is a core of players that it wouldn't be wise to trade as they appear to make up the components of a real title contender. Those players are:

KG
Pierce
Rondo
Bradley
Sullinger

I then think there is a group of extremely valuable role players that are helping this team or could in the future but could be moved if there is an upgrade to be had or a player to be had that would fit into the first group of players. Those players are:

Green
Lee
Terry
Bass
Melo

Then I think there's a group of players that basically can be moved at any time for whatever reason because they aren't a long term part of this team:

Collins
Wilcox
Barbosa

I had a problem placing Melo in the second group as he has shown nothing that demonstrates he will be a contributing role player one day but he could be and might not be easily replaceable if he pans out, so I didn't put him in the last group.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: 2short on January 15, 2013, 07:37:21 PM
Terry's been frustrating but I think having a guy who is capable of a red hot shooting/scoring streak off the bench is important.  Though he's dissappointed at times, JET is a guy who can win you a game or 2 in the playoffs with his shooting (Eddie House).  Without Terry, Pierce is really the only one left who can 'go off' (maybe Lee or Green to some exent -- but JET is able to do what Ray or Eddie did with his shot).  I think (hope) JET will show his value soon.
I hope terry starts showing an eddie house streak to his game.  He does a nice job at backup pg but not sure he is any better than lee (with pierce in) or barbosa and he's paid $4? million
Could be as easy as we aren't running pick and roll plays for him.  We really don't have many plays for terry, green, lee or sully.  They get looks but it appears to be on breaks, before defense settles or one on one.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 08:24:02 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Celtics18 on January 15, 2013, 08:30:25 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.

There's actually quite a bit of flexibility on this roster.  If by "not flexible" you mean; we don't want to get rid of the players that are playing well, and nobody's going to give us much for the ones that aren't, then I guess we aren't very flexible. 
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Surferdad on January 15, 2013, 09:00:01 PM
I think its really shortsighted to trade anyone based on a six game sample.
Yes, and furthermore the correct answer is don't trade anyone. They are WINNING.  Why make a trade?
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 10:47:53 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.

There's actually quite a bit of flexibility on this roster.  If by "not flexible" you mean; we don't want to get rid of the players that are playing well, and nobody's going to give us much for the ones that aren't, then I guess we aren't very flexible.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

We'd have to make pretty enormous changes to the roster to make a move with real impact.  The players that it would make sense to move in a minor deal aren't likely to give us enough return to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: xmuscularghandix on January 15, 2013, 11:02:00 PM
Brandon Bass, but i'm beginning to think that he's still valuable because of this crap between the officials and Sully. Sullinger is already the better player IMO but he still needs a bit of seasoning. The team could use another real center to play behind KG... but they seem to be making out decent the way it is now. I just hate that Sullinger/Bass frontcourt duo, it's just too [dang] small.

Let's break it down according to position as it compares to 2007/08

'08-

PG- Rondo, Sam Cassell
SG- Ray Allen, Tony Allen, Eddie House
SF- Paul Pierce, James Posey
PF- Kevin Garnett, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Brian Scalabrine
 C-  Kendrick Perkins, P.J. Brown

'13-

PG- Rondo
SG- Avery Bradley, Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, Leandro Barbosa
SF- Paul Pierce, Jeff Green
PF- Brandon Bass, Jared Sullinger, Chris Wilcox
 C- Kevin Garnett, Jason Collins

Obviously the SG situation is switched up because the defense first guy is now starting with the scoring SG coming off the bench. Another thing that stands out is the lack of a real backup PG... but with Paul Pierce & KG on the team i think it's okay to have that backup guy be primarily a scorer. The last major note would be the lack of another 7 footer, I hate to say it but Darko really would be perfect for this team right now. I think Danny Ainge nailed this offseason but Darko's health issues with his mother really threw a wrench in that.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: mgent on January 15, 2013, 11:18:15 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: ScottHow on January 15, 2013, 11:31:11 PM
I'd say Sully has made Bass expendable, I still would like to keep Terry for some big shots in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: j804 on January 16, 2013, 04:05:06 AM
I don't agree that Terry is expendable.  He is not playing well right now, but he is a proven clutch playoff performer.  He'll be there for us in the playoffs.

This.

Bass and a pick is my package that I am kicking the tires on to see what center it can get us. Any center. and when all the gm's say I dont want that package I sit tight with what we have.
I agree that's the only thing id do but still would be kinna hesitant because the starting unit with Bass has chemistry, even though they haven't played that well as of late they'll all get going soon.

I don't understand people wanting to trade Terry he's a guy you want to battle with on your side during the playoffs
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 16, 2013, 08:06:02 AM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.


Terry has had some "on" games for sure.  But he's had many more "off" games, and some of those games where she scored 15+ he took a TON of shots.

The problem with Terry is the same as it was with Ray: if he isn't nailing those shots at a high percentage, he doesn't bring much else to the table.  The thing with Terry was supposed to be a trade-off for the great shooting percentages for some ability to create his own shot off the dribble and help the team bust out of slumps. 

Yet that hasn't really materialized, whether because Terry is struggling this season or that he hasn't been utilized to maximize his abilities.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: mgent on January 16, 2013, 04:27:34 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.


Terry has had some "on" games for sure.  But he's had many more "off" games, and some of those games where she scored 15+ he took a TON of shots.

The problem with Terry is the same as it was with Ray: if he isn't nailing those shots at a high percentage, he doesn't bring much else to the table.  The thing with Terry was supposed to be a trade-off for the great shooting percentages for some ability to create his own shot off the dribble and help the team bust out of slumps. 

Yet that hasn't really materialized, whether because Terry is struggling this season or that he hasn't been utilized to maximize his abilities.
Again, that's completely false.

You know the definition of a streaky shooter right?  He has games where he can't hit and then others where he doesn't miss.  That's how he averages out.  Much different from a volume scorer.

In those games he shot an extremely efficient 56% from the field and 48% from 3.  In half the games he took 10 shots or less.

Erase 1 game in Milwaukee with no Rondo where the entire team struggled (aside from Green) and we're talking about a blistering 58-95 from the field (61%) and 26-49 from 3 (53%).

As for not doing anything else when his shot isn't falling, he had 11 assists and 3 steals in that Milwaukee game.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: PhoSita on January 16, 2013, 06:02:16 PM
I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.


Terry has had some "on" games for sure.  But he's had many more "off" games, and some of those games where she scored 15+ he took a TON of shots.

The problem with Terry is the same as it was with Ray: if he isn't nailing those shots at a high percentage, he doesn't bring much else to the table.  The thing with Terry was supposed to be a trade-off for the great shooting percentages for some ability to create his own shot off the dribble and help the team bust out of slumps. 

Yet that hasn't really materialized, whether because Terry is struggling this season or that he hasn't been utilized to maximize his abilities.
Again, that's completely false.

You know the definition of a streaky shooter right?  He has games where he can't hit and then others where he doesn't miss.  That's how he averages out.  Much different from a volume scorer.

In those games he shot an extremely efficient 56% from the field and 48% from 3.  In half the games he took 10 shots or less.

Erase 1 game in Milwaukee with no Rondo where the entire team struggled (aside from Green) and we're talking about a blistering 58-95 from the field (61%) and 26-49 from 3 (53%).

As for not doing anything else when his shot isn't falling, he had 11 assists and 3 steals in that Milwaukee game.

The bottom line for me is I just haven't seen anything this season to make me think Terry at this best brings more to the table than Lee at his best. 

There really aren't rotation minutes to play both Terry and Lee the kind of minutes each is best suited to playing (20-25).  So if there's a way to improve the team by giving up Terry, I'd be willing to do it.
Title: Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 18, 2013, 07:53:48 AM
I think its really shortsighted to trade anyone based on a six game sample.
Yes, and furthermore the correct answer is don't trade anyone. They are WINNING.  Why make a trade?

ummmmmmm we poo pooed the bed against NOLA for heaven's sake. The real underlier here is we did not attack. That lies solely on doc rivers yet we have 4 dribble drivers and a couple cutters. KG and sully can post up. We need a big who will live in the paint. MAke it happen Danny. This team as currently constructed is not winning jack if we continue to resort to terrible styles of play relying on low % shots from outside all night. insanity.