CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 12, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
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I need some help.
I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
I would like your feedback and ideas if it's alright. I'm looking for the top 5 role players. Role players that do a certain thing on the floor, like defense or scoring or rebounding, and elevate his team to success by doing the said role.
Players who, although are only specializing in one or two things, are still a very important part of the team and could not win without them.
Here an example. My top 5 role players.
Jamal Crawford - obviously his scoring is a huge lift for the Clips. His ability to create shots is on an elite level, and he's coming off the bench.
Avery Bradley - his perimeter defense sets the tone for the Celtics overall defense. His on ball pressure is also elite, and it also helps prevent dribble penetration and easy layups for opponent guards
Larry Sanders - while he's not a go to scoring option, his rebounding and shot blocking creates a ton of possessions for the Bucks.
Kenneth Faried - also like Sanders, he creates a lot of possessions for the Nuggets with his rebounding, especially offensively where he gets 4 OR a game. And add his energy all around the court. The Manimal helps Denver to be one of the better teams in the West even without scoring.
Tony Allen - Another very good on ball defender, prevents easy dribble penetration and easy shots.
Who are yours?
Thanks for your help.
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JJ Redick / Kyle Korver / Shane Battier / Ray Allen / Wayne Ellington etc.
Designated shooter; guy who can come in and hit a three (spot up or off a screen) regardless of how many minutes they've played, or how many shots they've missed (or how many shots they have or haven't taken).
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JJ Redick / Kyle Korver / Shane Battier / Ray Allen / Wayne Ellington etc.
Designated shooter; guy who can come in and hit a three (spot up or off a screen) regardless of how many minutes they've played, or how many shots they've missed (or how many shots they have or haven't taken).
Very, very helpful. Thanks
I really wanted to put Redick, but I though Tony Allen's defense lifts up Memphis to elite status more than Redick's all around play to the Magic.
Very helpful list nonetheless. Thank you. You just gave me an idea for the next write up. You don't mind if I use that "designated shooter" as my title right?
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JJ Redick / Kyle Korver / Shane Battier / Ray Allen / Wayne Ellington etc.
Designated shooter; guy who can come in and hit a three (spot up or off a screen) regardless of how many minutes they've played, or how many shots they've missed (or how many shots they have or haven't taken).
Very, very helpful. Thanks
I really wanted to put Redick, but I though Tony Allen's defense lifts up Memphis to elite status more than Redick's all around play to the Magic.
Very helpful list nonetheless. Thank you. You just gave me an idea for the next write up. You don't mind if I use that "designated shooter" as my title right?
Go for it.
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I'll go by position.
Center -- someone who can play quality man-to-man defense, provide rim protection and play quality team defense and give his team adequate rebounding. Someone like Ezeli on the Warriors.
Power forward -- defense, rebounding and midrange jump-shot. Like Udonis Haslem at his peak. I'm not sure there is really anyone who does all three of these right now. Tyrus Thomas can when healthy and focused. Taj Gibson's jumper is a little sketchy. Haslem has dropped off. Kenyon Martin has a sketchy jumper too.
Wings -- "3 and D" types. Guys who can spread the floor and man up defensively. Two way players. Battier is still one of the best in the league at the SF position. Wes Matthews is very good at the SG position.
Point guards -- lots of different types from big burly guards like Jarrett Jack to solid decision making floor generals like Luke Ridnour to dribble penetration with scorer / playmakers like JJ Barea.
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I had this whole thing written up, but Who nailed it.
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I'll go by position.
Center -- someone who can play quality man-to-man defense, provide rim protection and play quality team defense and give his team adequate rebounding. Someone like Ezeli on the Warriors.
Power forward -- defense, rebounding and midrange jump-shot. Like Udonis Haslem at his peak. I'm not sure there is really anyone who does all three of these right now. Tyrus Thomas can when healthy and focused. Taj Gibson's jumper is a little sketchy. Haslem has dropped off. Kenyon Martin has a sketchy jumper too.
Wings -- "3 and D" types. Guys who can spread the floor and man up defensively. Two way players. Battier is still one of the best in the league at the SF position. Wes Matthews is very good at the SG position.
Point guards -- lots of different types from big burly guards like Jarrett Jack to solid decision making floor generals like Luke Ridnour to dribble penetration with scorer / playmakers like JJ Barea.
Defense, rebounding, and mid-range jumpshot . . . sounds like our own Jared Sullinger is quickly making a case for himself as, at the very least, that sort of role player. :)
But I agree with IP, very good write-up.
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I guess you already pretty much said
"Energy Guy"
These guys do other things really well but it's b/c of their high energy that they do these things so well.
Like AB said, defense is all about effort!
AB
Faried
Battier
Big Baby (when he wants to)
Hansbrough
Verajao
There are a lot of these guys who are crucial to their teams. These guys may not be superstars but they will out hustle the best players... make you want to punch them in the face! They will embarrass their teammates into giving more of themselves/more effort (Celtics w/ AB)! Their energy is so infectious!
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Almost 33, Crawford isn't really creating shots at an "elite" level. For the past 3 years his scoring is down to 14.5 a game on 41% shooting (career average) and 33% 3pt shooting. Simply put, there are players in the league that can better do what he does, and he's looking at an even sharper decline very soon when he starts to lose his speed.
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I was thinking that perhaps there should be another category of role player -- "X Factor." This can be a number of different types of players at different positions, but basically it's a player, perhaps on the bench, perhaps in the starting lineup, who is versatile and creates mismatches. This is a player who allows you to switch lineups and totally catch the opponent off-guard at times. Their presence on the floor fundamentally changes the way both teams play, putting the opponent at a disadvantage.
Best examples I can think of are Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom. Shane Battier does a little bit of this with the Heat too given his ability to play at the 4. Matt Bonner might do this a little bit for the Spurs with his ability to stretch the floor at either big position. Posey did this a bit for the Celtics back in '08. You could say that Eric Bledsoe has an element of this for the Clips (coming in to play next to CP3 giving them a dual-ballhandler look). Avery Bradley has this effect to some degree because his incredibly intense pressure on the ball-handler changes the game and gets the whole team more involved defensively.
This is probably what the Celtics hope Jeff Green can become someday. Not a big-time bench scorer, but a guy who changes the way the team plays when he comes in and can exploit the opponent's defense in a variety of ways depending on which position he plays (SG, SF, PF).
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Even to a lesser extent, a guy like Bonner is a guy every team loves to have as a role player as well. Could have 3 straight DNP's then come in for ten minutes in the 4th game and go 2 for 3 from the three point line with hustle and bodying up on defense.
Not the ideal candidate but nice to have.
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Even to a lesser extent, a guy like Bonner is a guy every team loves to have as a role player as well. Could have 3 straight DNP's then come in for ten minutes in the 4th game and go 2 for 3 from the three point line with hustle and bodying up on defense.
Not the ideal candidate but nice to have.
Yeah, he's one of those "designated shooters" I was talking about, but because he plays at the center position he also has an even bigger effect on the way both teams play.
A stretch big is a huge asset for any team to have. There's a good reason most teams put up WAY more points per 48 minutes with a stretch big on the floor.
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Guy who overreacts to dunks
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
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Guy who overreacts to dunks
Love those guys. The 12th-15th man on the roster who 50% of the fans don't know his name, but is constantly standing and cheering for his teammates through the good times and bad. It'd so much better for the team if the inactive guys are NBA vets who know how to continue being professional as opposed to the young guys who pout in the corner and sulk about not getting time.
Leandro Barbosa is that guy right now, but you could also say that he can, at times, give that Sean Marion, Matt Bonner time of role. He can have 3 DNP's in a row then come in for 15 minutes in a route and turn the game around.
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
No, just a Facebook thing for my friends actually. ;D
I will try bleacher report when I get good at this.
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Guy who overreacts to dunks
Robert Sacre anyone?
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Guy who overreacts to dunks
Robert Sacre anyone?
On a serious note, I'd love for Sacre to play for us.
He's one of those "bruiser" type bigs who would rebound on ever single shot he sees. Not afraid of contact, will challenge anyone.
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
No, just a Facebook thing for my friends actually. ;D
I will try bleacher report when I get good at this.
Being "good at this" isn't a requirement for the bleacher report.
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
No, just a Facebook thing for my friends actually. ;D
I will try bleacher report when I get good at this.
Being "good at this" isn't a requirement for the bleacher report.
Getting good at writing then taking it to bleacher report is like getting good at cooking and trying to get a job at Ponderosa.
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
No, just a Facebook thing for my friends actually. ;D
I will try bleacher report when I get good at this.
Being "good at this" isn't a requirement for the bleacher report.
Getting good at writing then taking it to bleacher report is like getting good at cooking and trying to get a job at Ponderosa.
You still gotta start somewhere right?
I mean BR has a lot of readers, and I want to make a solid write up. I'm not just gonna go there and write "IMO it's this and that."
I kind of want my friends (who are basketball fans as well, but Lakers fans so to hell with them) to read it first, give me feedback. Then try BR and then maybe do an amateur blog.
BTW IP, I would like to read your write up, where can I find it?
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
No, just a Facebook thing for my friends actually. ;D
I will try bleacher report when I get good at this.
Being "good at this" isn't a requirement for the bleacher report.
Getting good at writing then taking it to bleacher report is like getting good at cooking and trying to get a job at Ponderosa.
You still gotta start somewhere right?
I mean BR has a lot of readers, and I want to make a solid write up. I'm not just gonna go there and write "IMO it's this and that."
I kind of want my friends (who are basketball fans as well, but Lakers fans so to hell with them) to read it first, give me feedback. Then try BR and then maybe do an amateur blog.
Don't write for Bleacher Report. Its everything that's wrong with online blogging. Zero credibility, zero insight, zero substance. It would be better to start writing Fanposts on here, or anywhere really, and just getting better that way.
BTW IP, I would like to read your write up, where can I find it?
I only started writing it before i saw what Who wrote. Basically the way I'd approach what you're doing is from the angle of describing a 'template' for an ideal player that successful teams seem to have.
For example:
1) The 'Three and D' swingman: When you think of a championship caliber 2 guard, or small forward, usually you think of guys who are dynamic two-way players; maybe guys who are athletic freaks with preternatural scoring instincts. Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony all probably come to mind, and obviously you start the conversation with Michael Jordan.
And while having a guy like that is a great step forward towards claiming a trophy in June, there is another guy you absolutely need to have, that every championship team for the last 10 years has had. The 'Three and D' perimeter player is absolutely critical to success. Defense of course, wins championships, and it is common sense to realize that not everyone on the floor can handle the rock all the time.
The 'Three and D' swingman isn't a guy who gets 12 shots a game, but he doesn't need it to make an impact. He shoots 40% from 3, and that's basically all he does on offense, besides not turn the ball over. He's not necessarily an all-time great sniper, he's just out there to make sure that teams can't leave him alone. On defense, he's not the most athletic guy in the world, but he's smart, savvy, experienced, and knows how to defend the best players in the league through years and years of doing it. He's tenacious, he gets under the other guy's skin with elbows, tripped up feet, trash talk. He might start, depending on your other personnel, but he doesn't have to.
Current examples of this guy are Shane Battier, Deshawn Stevenson, Stephen Jackson, Matt Barnes
Great Historic Examples: James Posey, Bruce Bowen, Michael Cooper
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Where is Perk on that list?
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Before I read the thread, I thought it was going to be a different angle. Not name specific players, but talking about certain roles. So without too much thought or analysis, I wrote up mine:
The Happy-To-Be-Their Guy: End of bench guy, who the fans love to see play. He knows he’s the 12th man, he knows he's not getting in the game, but cheers every play like it's the last second of a big game and it's his first time at a pro game. Always cheering his teammates on. And that rare time when his number is called, knows exactly what’s going on and exactly what he should do. Real life examples: Brian Scalabrine, Robert Sacre.
The If-I-Wasn’t-In-The-NBA-I’d-Be-In-The-WWE Guy: These guys are tough and scared of no one. Even though they’re fringe NBA players, they don’t back down from anybody. They go hard. They play hard. They foul hard. They have no problem knocking Kobe, LeBron, Wade down as they drive to the hoop. Not a bully, but an enforcer, as they’d go toe-to-toe with Karl Malone or Charles Barkley at a moment’s notice. You put these guys in the game, and hard fouls ensue. They grind it out, can grab boards, will dive for loose balls, and love playing physical. Real life examples: Brandon Hunter, Leon Powe, Mardy Collins.
The He’s-Still-In-The-League? Guy: Even a knowledgeable basketball fan is surprised when he sees this guy on the roster. Wow, he’s still in the league? Though said not in a “cuz this guy sucks” condescending sort of way, but in a “he’s been around forever” sort of respectable way. Classy, crafty veterans with a little bit of game left. Only used for spot minutes now, but great for mentoring the young guys and for the locker room as a whole. Not only have they played with and against the current NBA’s old superstars (Kidd, Duncan, Garnett), the current superstars (LeBron, Wade, Rose), and the next generation superstars (Griffin, Rubio, Irving), but also played with the previous 2-3 generations of stars (Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon). Sometimes been in the league longer than the rookies have been alive. Pretty limited skill set now, but still able to turn back the clock once or twice a year. Real life examples: Kurt Thomas, Juwan Howard.
The Utility-Infielder Guy: Doesn’t really do any one thing well, except play basketball. Mid-first round talent when they came into the league, maybe even got an early push on a rebuilding team, but didn’t quite have the overall skills to lead the way. Can play and defend at least 2-3 positions, and you can plug them into most specialty lineups. 3pt shooters lineup? Check. Free throw shooters lineup? Check. Small lineup? Check. Big lineup? Check. Defensive lineup? Check. Real life examples: James Posey. Courtney Lee.
The Why-Is-He-Starting Guy: This might be your 4th man, might be your 5th man, but the casual fan has no idea why he’s out there. Usually a big drop-off from the least of your star players to this guy. He’ll never be an All-Star, nor is he a starter on every team, but he’s a starter on your team. Usually a veteran, and there’ll be some young guy that most fans would rather see play over him. Yet he’s still out there. The thing is, he makes things run smoothly. He knows no plays will be called for him, he knows he has to do things that won’t show up in the box score. He sets picks, he stands out by the 3 point line, he brings the ball up then immediately passes off to the point forward, and he doesn’t complain, demand more shots, a bigger role, or ask to be traded. A lot of fans want to upgrade him, but if you replaced him with a better player, your team often plays worse as there’s suddenly not enough shots to keep everybody happy. Real life examples: Mario Chalmers, Kendrick Perkins, Brandon Bass.
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I would say Sully is right up there. I'd still categorise him as a role player at this point in his career, but his banging, rebounding, energy and second chance points create a huge bonus for Boston.
He and AB are IMO two of the beat role players in the league, and I don't think its any surprise that we are winning games consistently since we've had them both suited up for us.
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Scalabrine
hustle and a great 3pt shooter
basketball IQ is tops
and a great lockeroom guy
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bdm that was very nice.
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Steve Buscemi, Harvey Keitel, Chris Penn, Michael Madsen and Tim Roth.
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bdm that was very nice.
+1
I really enjoy the names of the roles like "The If-I-Wasn’t-In-The-NBA-I’d-Be-In-The-WWE Guy"
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I'm surveying the top 5 role players that every team should have. I'm doing this for a blog that I would like to write and I'm using this idea as my very first topic for it.
Bleacher Report?
No, just a Facebook thing for my friends actually. ;D
I will try bleacher report when I get good at this.
Being "good at this" isn't a requirement for the bleacher report.
I think I've linked to this previously in the forums, but I can't help but to think of this article whenever I hear about Bleacher Report.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/furious-bleacher-report-editor-will-make-staff-ran,30662/
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Steve Buscemi, Harvey Keitel, Chris Penn, Michael Madsen and Tim Roth.
ha! start the music
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James Posey - Every time someone asks who is/was an ideal role player, he is always the first person I think of.
Amazing D - would never shy away from guarding the other teams star, including anyone from SG (Kobe) to PF (Dirk in '06).
3 Pointers - Hit the open 3 with consistency, was also quite clutch.
Glue Guy - It always seemed that he had some sort of special relationship with every member of the team, he gave me the impression that he was truly a team first guy, and the players loved having him on the team.
I know he doesn't play anymore, but, I just wanted to share my thoughts on who is for me, one of the great role players in recent history.
For current players, I would go:
Shane Battier (very similar to Posey in a lot of ways)
Reggie Evans - Hustle/Rebounds/Defense
Jamal Crawford - Can get points quickly/create his own shot.
JJ Barea - (See above)
Gerald Wallace - Tough player, hustles hard, does the dirty work.
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Hard to address this, since the needs of a team are dependent upon the building blocks around which the team is centered.
In general terms, I'd say you need a guard who can create for himself or others, a defensive wing/forward and a big man who is a presence on defense and on the glass. A couple of wings or forwards who are legit threats from the perimeter are also important, with their exact positions depending on the composition of the rest of the team.
Again, different teams need different pieces. But I'd guess that these roles are filled by almost any good team.
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A bench that could be starters for another team.