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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Roy H. on January 11, 2013, 04:53:28 PM

Title: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Roy H. on January 11, 2013, 04:53:28 PM
Quote
Team executives involved in exploratory trade talks report that the Knicks (Amar'e Stoudemire), Lakers (Pau Gasol), Raptors (Bargnani) and Celtics (Paul Pierce) are open to discussing their high-profile names. In every case but one, the early indications are that none could be moved without a bad contract going back in return. (In Stoudemire's case, his health and the $45 million left on his contract after this season almost certainly will prevent any deal from happening.) The lone exception, executives say, may be Pierce, whose ruthless scoring prowess and championship experience come with another attractive feature: only $4 million of his $15.3 million salary is guaranteed next season. With the Celtics playing better since Avery Bradley returned from injury, president Danny Ainge once again finds himself trying to determine whether the remnants of the 2007-08 championship team have enough to make one more run. Some rival executives believe the Celtics recently waived Jarvis Varnado and Kris Joseph to create roster flexibility for a potential trade. If Ainge decides to stand pat, a deal involving Pierce -- which would mark the true end of the Big Three era -- could be re-examined around the draft or during free agency.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21539972/postups-gay-trade-bait-as-grizzlies-maneuver-between-winning-taxes

Say it isn't so.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Interceptor on January 11, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
Seems like this happens every year. Pierce even jokes about it.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Fafnir on January 11, 2013, 04:58:01 PM
If he's discussing trading Rondo then he's clearly going to be discussing Pierce.

Thing is other than a team like the Grizzlies Pierce has a much more limited market. For them he has to be attractive to replace Gay's on the court production with a shorter contract.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Fafnir on January 11, 2013, 04:58:23 PM
Seems like this happens every year. Pierce even jokes about it.
Yeah, this is why KG got his no-trade clause.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on January 11, 2013, 05:01:06 PM
Don't tell me you're surprised.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 11, 2013, 05:03:58 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

Only one I can think of is the Clippers (who are already a contender).

Butler + Odom + Bledsoe

for

Pierce + Wilcox + Barbosa

That could make sense if the Celtics then trade Rondo for something. Bledsoe has been phenomenal in limited minutes for the Clips and pairing him with Bradley could give the Celtics a ferocious, very fast and athletic combo in the backcourt on both ends of the floor.

The Clippers would obviously prefer not to give up Bledsoe, who has been GREAT this year, but going from Butler to Pierce is a pretty huge upgrade, and could make them nearly unstoppable this season.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
Not a huge surprise, considering i think it's a forgone conclusion that the Cs are going to ask Pierce to renegotiate his deal or nix the rest of it over the summer, and have a major investment in Green.

Ainge has been crystal clear about trading "Big 3" players before they're toast. Surely he wishes he traded Ray...
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Jon on January 11, 2013, 05:09:48 PM
Seems like this happens every year. Pierce even jokes about it.

Essentially this. 

And if we couldn't find something palatable the past few years, I don't see what is going to change this time.  It's not like his trade value has gone up. 
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 11, 2013, 05:11:52 PM
Seems like this happens every year. Pierce even jokes about it.

It's not like his trade value has gone up.

Actually, as the quoted paragraph suggests, his trade value may indeed have gone up because though he makes a lot of money, he does not represent a long term investment for whoever takes him on.  The team who trades for him is only on the hook for $4 million next season.  That makes him much easier to trade.

It's plausible that a team with the right contracts could trade for Pierce if they thought plugging him at SF would turn them into world-beaters.  There aren't a lot of teams that fit that bill, but there's at least one or two.

In the past, most teams would have insisted that the Celtics take back a bad contract, which was almost certainly a non-starter for Ainge.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Jon on January 11, 2013, 05:21:44 PM
Seems like this happens every year. Pierce even jokes about it.

It's not like his trade value has gone up.

Actually, as the quoted paragraph suggests, his trade value may indeed have gone up because though he makes a lot of money, he does not represent a long term investment for whoever takes him on.  The team who trades for him is only on the hook for $4 million next season.  That makes him much easier to trade.

It's plausible that a team with the right contracts could trade for Pierce if they thought plugging him at SF would turn them into world-beaters.  There aren't a lot of teams that fit that bill, but there's at least one or two.

In the past, most teams would have insisted that the Celtics take back a bad contract, which was almost certainly a non-starter for Ainge.

Well, maybe from last year.  But they couldn't get enough value for him a couple years back when he was younger and represented an expiring deal. 
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: j804 on January 11, 2013, 05:24:02 PM
This is stupid. Ugh.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: RebusRankin on January 11, 2013, 05:24:08 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 05:25:05 PM
If the right deal came along I'd move the captain. It'd be sad to see him go, but its about the Celtics first
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Chris on January 11, 2013, 05:25:34 PM
Quote
Team executives involved in exploratory trade talks report that the Knicks (Amar'e Stoudemire), Lakers (Pau Gasol), Raptors (Bargnani) and Celtics (Paul Pierce) are open to discussing their high-profile names. In every case but one, the early indications are that none could be moved without a bad contract going back in return. (In Stoudemire's case, his health and the $45 million left on his contract after this season almost certainly will prevent any deal from happening.) The lone exception, executives say, may be Pierce, whose ruthless scoring prowess and championship experience come with another attractive feature: only $4 million of his $15.3 million salary is guaranteed next season. With the Celtics playing better since Avery Bradley returned from injury, president Danny Ainge once again finds himself trying to determine whether the remnants of the 2007-08 championship team have enough to make one more run. Some rival executives believe the Celtics recently waived Jarvis Varnado and Kris Joseph to create roster flexibility for a potential trade. If Ainge decides to stand pat, a deal involving Pierce -- which would mark the true end of the Big Three era -- could be re-examined around the draft or during free agency.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21539972/postups-gay-trade-bait-as-grizzlies-maneuver-between-winning-taxes

Say it isn't so.

Roy, I forget the rules on this.  Could Pierce be traded on draft day, and then cut, so there would only be the $4 million guaranteed?
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Accension13 on January 11, 2013, 05:26:07 PM
I think this year the C's make a major trade.  I think it will be either:

1. Rondo for cousins and maybe Evans
2. Pierce for Gay
3. Or role players for gortat

I think any one of these are good deals for the C's. I really like Rudy,  but I don't like the idea of giving up Pierce; however, that's a deal you have to do if it's on the table
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 05:27:19 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Donoghus on January 11, 2013, 05:28:42 PM
The one guy, if moved, that would incur my wrath at the Celtics organization.

Although, it seems like this is brought up every season.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: RebusRankin on January 11, 2013, 05:28:54 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 11, 2013, 05:31:52 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.

They want to save money this season, too.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Eddie20 on January 11, 2013, 05:32:24 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.

Exactly. Rudy Guy, however, is owed over 37M in years 13-14 and 14-15. So while they might not see any salary relief this year, they could see it next year if they decide to waive Pierce.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: j804 on January 11, 2013, 05:37:08 PM
The heart and soul of this team I dont get it, are we blowing it up?!?!  :-\
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: esel1000 on January 11, 2013, 05:38:41 PM
yesterday we hear that Rondo wants Gay in Boston... now, Celtics open to discussing Pierce... coincidence? uh-oh
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Eddie20 on January 11, 2013, 05:39:35 PM
Combining some rumors and/or targets:


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6202507


It would indeed be a major overhaul and I'm not entirely sure I would do it, but man, would it make us young and extremely talented. Cousins, Evans, Gay, Green, Bradley, and Sullinger gives us some incredible young talent. All 26 or under too.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 05:43:14 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.

Exactly. Rudy Guy, however, is owed over 37M in years 13-14 and 14-15. So while they might not see any salary relief this year, they could see it next year if they decide to waive Pierce.

MEM can get better value for Gay then paying the tax for Pierce this year, then paying him $4.5mil to go play somewhere else next year.

Gay also plays the same position as Green, who the Cs are stuck with.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Birdman on January 11, 2013, 05:45:07 PM
Thanks for memories PP...Its a business folks and PP isnt getting any younger
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Smokeeye123 on January 11, 2013, 05:47:54 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.

Exactly. Rudy Guy, however, is owed over 37M in years 13-14 and 14-15. So while they might not see any salary relief this year, they could see it next year if they decide to waive Pierce.

MEM can get better value for Gay then paying the tax for Pierce this year, then paying him $4.5mil to go play somewhere else next year.

Still, Pierce could make Memphis legit title contenders...They aren't very far away right now...

Maybe something like this? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2lfs7f (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2lfs7f)

Pierce and Lee for Allen and Gay? (I just salivate of a backcourt of Bradley and Allen)
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 05:50:01 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.

Exactly. Rudy Guy, however, is owed over 37M in years 13-14 and 14-15. So while they might not see any salary relief this year, they could see it next year if they decide to waive Pierce.

MEM can get better value for Gay then paying the tax for Pierce this year, then paying him $4.5mil to go play somewhere else next year.

Still, Pierce could make Memphis legit title contenders...They aren't very far away right now...

Maybe something like this? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2lfs7f (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2lfs7f)

Pierce and Lee for Allen and Gay?

You increased their tax bill this year, not decreased.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Eddie20 on January 11, 2013, 05:50:08 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?

Not a deal that makes sense for Memphis financially. Maybe with a 3rd team....

Pierce is only costs 4 million next year.

Exactly. Rudy Guy, however, is owed over 37M in years 13-14 and 14-15. So while they might not see any salary relief this year, they could see it next year if they decide to waive Pierce.

MEM can get better value for Gay then paying the tax for Pierce this year, then paying him $4.5mil to go play somewhere else next year.

Gay also plays the same position as Green, who the Cs are stuck with.

You're right, they could. But if they don't get it then Pierce would be a great fallback option. Plus, it makes them much more formidable in the playoffs. I figure his halfcourt game/outside shooting would pay immediate dividends for Memphis. A much better fit than Gay in that aspect.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Roy H. on January 11, 2013, 05:50:29 PM

Roy, I forget the rules on this.  Could Pierce be traded on draft day, and then cut, so there would only be the $4 million guaranteed?

I don't believe so, because the last year of his deal has been described as a team option.  Contracts that can be ended due to an option aren't tradeable before the new league year.

However, if the deal isn't in fact a team option, and rather is a non-guaranteed (or partially guaranteed) deal, then I think it *can* be traded.  It all depends upon the structure of the deal, I believe.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: csfansince60s on January 11, 2013, 05:51:12 PM
The heart and soul of this team I dont get it, are we blowing it up?!?!  :-\

With Danny, you never know.

 Regarding PP during the season, Danny would have to be blown away with an offer. Otherwise, I think it's highly unlikely.

The last sentence in the OP article quote is controlling here:

" If Ainge decides to stand pat, a deal involving Pierce -- which would mark the true end of the Big Three era -- could be re-examined around the draft or during free agency.'

IF it happens, it happens then, UNLESS Danny is blown away.

 


Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Kane3387 on January 11, 2013, 05:52:07 PM
The heart and soul of this team I dont get it, are we blowing it up?!?!  :-\

With Danny, you never know.

 Regarding PP during the season, Danny would have to be blown away with an offer. Otherwise, I think it's highly unlikely.

The last sentence in the OP article quote is controlling here:

" If Ainge decides to stand pat, a deal involving Pierce -- which would mark the true end of the Big Three era -- could be re-examined around the draft or during free agency.'

IF it happens, it happens then, UNLESS Danny is blown away.

Agreed. I could see Pierce for Gay happening in the summer.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: blink on January 11, 2013, 05:55:16 PM
Am I the only one who thinks PP is better right now than Rudy Gay?  Rudy puts up decent numbers, but I personally think he is overpaid, a lot.

To me he certainly doesn't make us more of a contender this year, and isn't that what we are shooting for?
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Roy H. on January 11, 2013, 05:55:23 PM
I take solace in the fact that I don't think Wyc would allow this.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Donoghus on January 11, 2013, 05:56:41 PM
I take solace in the fact that I don't think Wyc would allow this.

Same here.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: pp34isthe1 on January 11, 2013, 05:57:25 PM
If Pierce gets traded I won't watch the Celtics until Danny is no longer GM. I understand the "business" argument but there's also a thing called loyalty. I think that his contract will be restructured next season and Pierce will retire a Celtic.

Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: The Rondo Show on January 11, 2013, 05:58:39 PM
pierce is going nowhere
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: scaryjerry on January 11, 2013, 05:59:13 PM
And? If rondo is open for discussion then pierce should be too
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Kane3387 on January 11, 2013, 06:00:15 PM
Am I the only one who thinks PP is better right now than Rudy Gay?  Rudy puts up decent numbers, but I personally think he is overpaid, a lot.

To me he certainly doesn't make us more of a contender this year, and isn't that what we are shooting for?

Agrees that's why I don't see it happening this season.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: scaryjerry on January 11, 2013, 06:00:53 PM
If Pierce gets traded I won't watch the Celtics until Danny is no longer GM. I understand the "business" argument but there's also a thing called loyalty. I think that his contract will be restructured next season and Pierce will retire a Celtic.
Loyalty? Lol. but hey I hear you
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: scaryjerry on January 11, 2013, 06:04:10 PM
Am I the only one who thinks PP is better right now than Rudy Gay?  Rudy puts up decent numbers, but I personally think he is overpaid, a lot.

To me he certainly doesn't make us more of a contender this year, and isn't that what we are shooting for?

I'd say they're about equal currently, it'd be a lateral move currently but good for the future
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: scaryjerry on January 11, 2013, 06:05:37 PM
The heart and soul of this team I dont get it,

No one said anything about kg
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on January 11, 2013, 06:06:04 PM
Trade away our clutch Captain for who or what? Rudy Gay...don't make laugh and puke at the same [dang] time.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 06:06:24 PM
I take solace in the fact that I don't think Wyc would allow this.

Agree, short of a very good -- and therefore justifiable -- deal.

Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 06:08:36 PM
I take solace in the fact that I don't think Wyc would allow this.

That would be pretty awful if Wyc blocked a trade that would benefit the team.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: OhioGreen on January 11, 2013, 06:16:41 PM
I think this year the C's make a major trade.  I think it will be either:

1. Rondo for cousins and maybe Evans
2. Pierce for Gay
3. Or role players for gortat

I think any one of these are good deals for the C's. I really like Rudy,  but I don't like the idea of giving up Pierce; however, that's a deal you have to do if it's on the table

Why not ALL of these, rather than just one????? End up with a core of: TEvans, Bradley, Gay, Cousins, and Gortat, while still keeping KG, and maybe Sully hopefully!
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: RyNye on January 11, 2013, 06:20:56 PM
That would be pretty awful if Wyc blocked a trade that would benefit the team.

Fortunately, Pierce for Gay straight-up would NOT benefit the team. Even at this age, Pierce is a better player than Gay, and while Gay is younger, he is 26. By this age, it is unlikely that he is going to make a huge leap. He is what he is at this point in his career. And what he is is a worse player than Paul Pierce.

Compare their numbers:

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=✓&player_ids%5B%5D=15&player_ids%5B%5D=150

Pierce scores more points, grabs more rebounds, is a better passer, has better shooting percentages and points per shot, gets more steals, and draws more fouls. The only categories in which Gay has an edge are blocks (but neither are good shot blockers, and the margin of difference is minimal), turnovers (but Pierce has a higher usage rate, and again, the margin of difference is minimal), and fouls (Pierce plays more physical defense, which results in more fouls).

Why would we make this trade? From a basketball stand-point it doesn't make any sense because Pierce is clearly superior, from a money stand-point it doesn't make any sense because Pierce is on a better contract, and from an "intangibles" stand-point it doesn't make any sense for reasons I am sure I don't have to point out. And this isn't even getting into Gay's injury issues.

I very much hope this trade does not happen, and Wyc would be justified in blocking it from every possible angle.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: BballTim on January 11, 2013, 06:21:42 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

  How many contenders wouldn't improve their chances with Paul Pierce on the roster? And who's to say the team that gets him won't want him next year? He's still a top sf.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: mctyson on January 11, 2013, 06:23:18 PM
Quote
Team executives involved in exploratory trade talks report that the Knicks (Amar'e Stoudemire), Lakers (Pau Gasol), Raptors (Bargnani) and Celtics (Paul Pierce) are open to discussing their high-profile names. In every case but one, the early indications are that none could be moved without a bad contract going back in return. (In Stoudemire's case, his health and the $45 million left on his contract after this season almost certainly will prevent any deal from happening.) The lone exception, executives say, may be Pierce, whose ruthless scoring prowess and championship experience come with another attractive feature: only $4 million of his $15.3 million salary is guaranteed next season. With the Celtics playing better since Avery Bradley returned from injury, president Danny Ainge once again finds himself trying to determine whether the remnants of the 2007-08 championship team have enough to make one more run. Some rival executives believe the Celtics recently waived Jarvis Varnado and Kris Joseph to create roster flexibility for a potential trade. If Ainge decides to stand pat, a deal involving Pierce -- which would mark the true end of the Big Three era -- could be re-examined around the draft or during free agency.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21539972/postups-gay-trade-bait-as-grizzlies-maneuver-between-winning-taxes

Say it isn't so.



Danny would not be doing his job if he wasn't "shopping" Pierce.  He is the GM and VP of Personnel.  His job is one thing and one thing only:  to give Doc the absolute best talent he can that gives them the best shot to win Banner 18, and to do so under the owner's financial requirements.

That does NOT mean we are trading him.  Just that Danny is looking to see what is out there on the market for this team now and in the future.  Hypothetically, if the Clippers were to offer Blake Griffin for Pierce would you say no, just because PP is a legend?  Of course not.  Danny is never going to find out if those opportunities exist by shutting his mouth or making players untouchable.

Put me down as someone who is very much against trading Pierce, for a lot of reasons.  But if there was an incredible deal out there to bring us an All Star-worthy player in his mid 20's, who could produce like PP and make this team a serious threat for the title for years to come, I'd do it.  And so would Danny.

And that's why Danny is one of the best in the biz.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Kane3387 on January 11, 2013, 06:24:54 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

  How many contenders wouldn't improve their chances with Paul Pierce on the roster? And who's to say the team that gets him won't want him next year? He's still a top sf.


Don't see SA doing it but a trade of Kawhi Leonard, Stephen Jackson, and Matt Bonner for Paul Pierce probably wins them a banner this year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ab3l6ze
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Jeff on January 11, 2013, 06:26:34 PM
I'm not open to it.  But I'm a sentimentalist.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 06:26:50 PM
That would be pretty awful if Wyc blocked a trade that would benefit the team.

Fortunately, Pierce for Gay straight-up would NOT benefit the team. Even at this age, Pierce is a better player than Gay, and while Gay is younger, he is 26. By this age, it is unlikely that he is going to make a huge leap. He is what he is at this point in his career. And what he is is a worse player than Paul Pierce.

Compare their numbers:

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=✓&player_ids%5B%5D=15&player_ids%5B%5D=150

Pierce scores more points, grabs more rebounds, is a better passer, has better shooting percentages and points per shot, gets more steals, and draws more fouls. The only categories in which Gay has an edge are blocks (but neither are good shot blockers, and the margin of difference is minimal), turnovers (but Pierce has a higher usage rate, and again, the margin of difference is minimal), and fouls (Pierce plays more physical defense, which results in more fouls).

Why would we make this trade? From a basketball stand-point it doesn't make any sense because Pierce is clearly superior, from a money stand-point it doesn't make any sense because Pierce is on a better contract, and from an "intangibles" stand-point it doesn't make any sense for reasons I am sure I don't have to point out. And this isn't even getting into Gay's injury issues.

I very much hope this trade does not happen, and Wyc would be justified in blocking it from every possible angle.

Well if that trade happened it would be a move looking towards the future.

My intial post wasn't even about a Pierce/Gay trade. It's just about any trade that would benefit the team that would get blocked for sentimental value.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 11, 2013, 06:28:29 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

  How many contenders wouldn't improve their chances with Paul Pierce on the roster? And who's to say the team that gets him won't want him next year? He's still a top sf.

Well, look, I wasn't suggesting that teams wouldn't be better than Pierce.  But $15 million is a fairly large salary to match in a deal.  Most contenders would have to break up some of their integral pieces to get him.  Plus, they'd need to give the Celtics a player of some pretty substantial value to convince them to trade.

So we need to be talking about a team that thinks they're a Paul Pierce at SF away from being at least one of the 4-5 teams with the best shot at a championship, and a team that doesn't already have a better player at SF.

That list, to me, includes the following:

Clippers
Spurs

That's it.

And a trade for Pierce doesn't seem like the sort of thing the Spurs would do (they don't tend to make mid-season trades) and it would be difficult to make the salaries match.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 11, 2013, 06:29:43 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

  How many contenders wouldn't improve their chances with Paul Pierce on the roster? And who's to say the team that gets him won't want him next year? He's still a top sf.


Don't see SA doing it but a trade of Kawhi Leonard, Stephen Jackson, and Matt Bonner for Paul Pierce probably wins them a banner this year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ab3l6ze

Yeah, it's not their style.  I think it would definitely be a significant upgrade for them.  But there's no way the Celtics are trading Pierce for Kawhi Leonard, basically.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: mctyson on January 11, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
I take solace in the fact that I don't think Wyc would allow this.

I also take solace in the fact that Danny will run all these by Doc, not that Doc has an approval button, but that Doc probably is allowed to give his blessing or not.

Pierce isn't going anywhere I predict.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: barefacedmonk on January 11, 2013, 06:37:23 PM
Quote
Would Mark Cuban trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard? "No knock on Dwight, I just won't trade Dirk," Cuban told @DavidBaumann33.

I hope Wyc thinks along the same lines when it comes to the Captain.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Roy H. on January 11, 2013, 06:40:48 PM
Quote
Would Mark Cuban trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard? "No knock on Dwight, I just won't trade Dirk," Cuban told @DavidBaumann33.

I hope Wyc thinks along the same lines when it comes to the Captain.

Agreed.  There's a place for loyalty, and yes, sentimentality in sports.  We hear "it's a business" so much that sometimes it's nice to appreciate those times when it isn't.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: gpap on January 11, 2013, 06:49:31 PM
Oh no....the shame! Oh no!
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Greenbean on January 11, 2013, 07:01:54 PM
Quote
Would Mark Cuban trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard? "No knock on Dwight, I just won't trade Dirk," Cuban told @DavidBaumann33.

I hope Wyc thinks along the same lines when it comes to the Captain.

Agreed.  There's a place for loyalty, and yes, sentimentality in sports.  We hear "it's a business" so much that sometimes it's nice to appreciate those times when it isn't.

Couldn't agree more... Pierce has been an ideal captain and leader for 6 years now...if chemistry fell apart after perk left....imagine this...

Besides...I wouldn't do it for gay...I don't think he has the same passion for the game pierce does.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: lon3lytoaster on January 11, 2013, 07:04:26 PM
Why? He's still probably a top-3 SF, certainly top 5. There's really no way of trading him and getting anything close to a suitable replacement.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Celtics18 on January 11, 2013, 07:05:02 PM
No. 
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Interceptor on January 11, 2013, 07:05:40 PM
Quote
Would Mark Cuban trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard? "No knock on Dwight, I just won't trade Dirk," Cuban told @DavidBaumann33.

I hope Wyc thinks along the same lines when it comes to the Captain.
Easy for Cuban to say, since Dirk has a no-trade.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: hpantazo on January 11, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
Let the captain play out his contract and retire a lifetime celtic
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 07:08:38 PM
Quote
Would Mark Cuban trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard? "No knock on Dwight, I just won't trade Dirk," Cuban told @DavidBaumann33.

I hope Wyc thinks along the same lines when it comes to the Captain.
Easy for Cuban to say, since Dirk has a no-trade.

Dirk is probably thinking "trade me!" considering the direction of the Mavs. Unless they can sign Howard in the offseason
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on January 11, 2013, 07:12:05 PM
This is just spin Danny put out there so that other players who are more seriously being viewed in trade scenarios won't get upset or think too much about the speculation.

If he says the Captain who's been here his whole career is on the table then the other guys get less upset. They see that in this organization everyone is equal and anyone can be traded if the deal is right.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 07:16:28 PM
This is just spin Danny put out there so that other players who are more seriously being viewed in trade scenarios won't get upset or think too much about the speculation.

If he says the Captain who's been here his whole career is on the table then the other guys get less upset. They see that in this organization everyone is equal and anyone can be traded if the deal is right.

That's a new take on it. I could actually see some teams doing this bc of other sensitive players.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Greenbean on January 11, 2013, 07:18:31 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

  How many contenders wouldn't improve their chances with Paul Pierce on the roster? And who's to say the team that gets him won't want him next year? He's still a top sf.

Man the Clippers would be unbeatable with him
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 11, 2013, 07:23:57 PM
I wouldn't read too much into it.

Danny Ainge knows good and well that if he chooses to touch Pierce, KG or Rondo, we're blowing it up plain and simple.

IMO, there is no one out there coming back in ANY scenario that keeps us as contenders if we part with any of those three.

I do believe, however - that the next few weeks are key. The Celtics will have to win the majority of their games and cast off the inconsistencies that have plagued them thus far(with the exception of the last 3 games).

In other words - Don't give Danny any ammunition or reason to do any major trades.

We keep up this win streak, play hard into the All-Star break, and stay healthy, I'm hoping that he'll keep this entire group together.

I think we'll play several key games between now and then:

CHI at home soon.

NY at home on the 24th.

At ATL on the 25th.

MIA and our friend Ray Allen visits on the 27th.

Clips come to BOS on the 3rd of Feb.

Lakers come to BOS on the 7th.

In other words, I'm betting that BOS will need to nearly run the table on all of the higher profile games for Danny to put the phones down.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Greenbean on January 11, 2013, 07:26:15 PM
Quote
Would Mark Cuban trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard? "No knock on Dwight, I just won't trade Dirk," Cuban told @DavidBaumann33.

I hope Wyc thinks along the same lines when it comes to the Captain.
Easy for Cuban to say, since Dirk has a no-trade.

Dirk might want a yes trade right now
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on January 11, 2013, 07:28:01 PM
This is just spin Danny put out there so that other players who are more seriously being viewed in trade scenarios won't get upset or think too much about the speculation.

If he says the Captain who's been here his whole career is on the table then the other guys get less upset. They see that in this organization everyone is equal and anyone can be traded if the deal is right.

That's a new take on it. I could actually see some teams doing this bc of other sensitive players.



EXACTLY

If you put the face of the organization on the block who on the team can complain if their name "also" surfaces as well? It's really just Danny's brilliant spin so that his locker room remains intact.

What it really says to me is that Danny has an itchy trigger finger and i wouldn't be surprised to see a blockbuster this year. Im hopeing for Cousins but then again he's a binky of mine so im unsure how realistic that is. Probably not very, but one can hope.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Clench123 on January 11, 2013, 07:30:45 PM
Unless we want to lose KG as well, don't touch Pierce or Rondo
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Who on January 11, 2013, 07:34:29 PM
Excellent news. If Danny can bring back a younger star talent for Pierce, he should do it.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 07:37:34 PM
This is just spin Danny put out there so that other players who are more seriously being viewed in trade scenarios won't get upset or think too much about the speculation.

If he says the Captain who's been here his whole career is on the table then the other guys get less upset. They see that in this organization everyone is equal and anyone can be traded if the deal is right.

That's a new take on it. I could actually see some teams doing this bc of other sensitive players.



EXACTLY

If you put the face of the organization on the block who on the team can complain if their name "also" surfaces as well? It's really just Danny's brilliant spin so that his locker room remains intact.

What it really says to me is that Danny has an itchy trigger finger and i wouldn't be surprised to see a blockbuster this year. Im hopeing for Cousins but then again he's a binky of mine so im unsure how realistic that is. Probably not very, but one can hope.

Don't be ashamed about having Cousins as a binky. I <3 Cousins
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Who on January 11, 2013, 07:51:35 PM
Pierce for Rudy Gay?
If Danny could find a way to net Rudy Gay for Pierce, I'd be delighted.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Who on January 11, 2013, 08:06:30 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

  How many contenders wouldn't improve their chances with Paul Pierce on the roster? And who's to say the team that gets him won't want him next year? He's still a top sf.


Don't see SA doing it but a trade of Kawhi Leonard, Stephen Jackson, and Matt Bonner for Paul Pierce probably wins them a banner this year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ab3l6ze

I don't know about that. (about putting San Antonio over the top for a title)

San Antonio doesn't really need that offensive boost. And Kawhi is the superior defender / rebounder to Pierce. Plus they lose quality depth in Jacks and Bonner.

Not sure San Antonio gains enough here ... given the strength of their offense already (Pierce would be taking shots from players who are already very effective shot-takers) + that it doesn't address any of their most pressing needs (like Boston with KG, interior defensive help for Duncan).
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Moranis on January 11, 2013, 08:35:31 PM
Some reasonable trades.  Obviously some are better than others and some would require additional trades, but I think they are all reasonable value for Pierce and would in theory be realistic for the teams involved.

3 Team
Bos - Gay, Bledsoe
LAC - Pierce, Arthur
MEM - Odom, Butler

Bos - Leonard, Blair, Jackson, Bonnar
SAS - Pierce, Wilcox

Bos - Barnes, Jefferson, Ezeli, Tyler, Jenkins
GS - Pierce, Melo

Bos - Granger, T. Hansborough
Ind - Pierce

Bos - Deng, Belinelli
Chi - Pierce

Bos - Sanders, Udrih, Dunleavy (thiw would depend on how much Ainge likes Sanders going forward)
Mil - Pierce, Wilcox
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: OsirusCeltics on January 11, 2013, 08:36:38 PM
I rather trade Rondo instead of Pierce to be honest
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: dark_lord on January 11, 2013, 08:38:30 PM
I rather trade Rondo instead of Pierce to be honest

co-sign
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: alajet on January 11, 2013, 08:43:10 PM
Some reasonable trades.  Obviously some are better than others and some would require additional trades, but I think they are all reasonable value for Pierce and would in theory be realistic for the teams involved.

3 Team
Bos - Gay, Bledsoe
LAC - Pierce, Arthur
MEM - Odom, Butler

Bos - Leonard, Blair, Jackson, Bonnar
SAS - Pierce, Wilcox

Bos - Barnes, Jefferson, Ezeli, Tyler, Jenkins
GS - Pierce, Melo

Bos - Granger, T. Hansborough
Ind - Pierce

Bos - Deng, Belinelli
Chi - Pierce

Bos - Sanders, Udrih, Dunleavy (thiw would depend on how much Ainge likes Sanders going forward)
Mil - Pierce, Wilcox

Aside from the Pacers one, these are debatable for me. I don't want Granger, though. He is nearly 30 now. Not a future asset.
I like Gay-Bledsoe the most. Gets a starting SF in return, and a very good 1-2 guy in Bledsoe to back up both backcourt positions.
GSW trade is good, but I don't think GSW will be willing to give up both Barnes and Ezeli.
If we aren't trading Terry elsewhere, I don't want Marco back with that Chicago trade, although I like his game.
For the SAS trade, Blair is undersized at C, so, if Sullinger is to stay as a future PF, they aren't a good combination in terms of size.
Bucks trade is a step for future. I like Sanders since he first showed up in Summer League in his rookie season. Getting him somehow would be great.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Who on January 11, 2013, 08:47:37 PM
Some reasonable trades.  Obviously some are better than others and some would require additional trades, but I think they are all reasonable value for Pierce and would in theory be realistic for the teams involved.

3 Team
Bos - Gay, Bledsoe
LAC - Pierce, Arthur
MEM - Odom, Butler

Bos - Leonard, Blair, Jackson, Bonnar
SAS - Pierce, Wilcox

Bos - Barnes, Jefferson, Ezeli, Tyler, Jenkins
GS - Pierce, Melo

Bos - Granger, T. Hansborough
Ind - Pierce

Bos - Deng, Belinelli
Chi - Pierce

Bos - Sanders, Udrih, Dunleavy (thiw would depend on how much Ainge likes Sanders going forward)
Mil - Pierce, Wilcox

Aside from the Pacers one, these are debatable for me. I don't want Granger, though. He is nearly 30 now. Not a future asset.
I like Gay-Bledsoe the most. Gets a starting SF in return, and a very good 1-2 guy in Bledsoe to back up both backcourt positions.
GSW trade is good, but I don't think GSW will be willing to give up both Barnes and Ezeli.
If we aren't trading Terry elsewhere, I don't want Marco back with that Chicago trade, although I like his game.
For the SAS trade, Blair is undersized at C, so, if Sullinger is to stay as a future PF, they aren't a good combination in terms of size.
Bucks trade is a step for future. I like Sanders since he first showed up in Summer League in his rookie season. Getting him somehow would be great.
Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: alajet on January 11, 2013, 08:52:33 PM
Some reasonable trades.  Obviously some are better than others and some would require additional trades, but I think they are all reasonable value for Pierce and would in theory be realistic for the teams involved.

3 Team
Bos - Gay, Bledsoe
LAC - Pierce, Arthur
MEM - Odom, Butler

Bos - Leonard, Blair, Jackson, Bonnar
SAS - Pierce, Wilcox

Bos - Barnes, Jefferson, Ezeli, Tyler, Jenkins
GS - Pierce, Melo

Bos - Granger, T. Hansborough
Ind - Pierce

Bos - Deng, Belinelli
Chi - Pierce

Bos - Sanders, Udrih, Dunleavy (thiw would depend on how much Ainge likes Sanders going forward)
Mil - Pierce, Wilcox

Aside from the Pacers one, these are debatable for me. I don't want Granger, though. He is nearly 30 now. Not a future asset.
I like Gay-Bledsoe the most. Gets a starting SF in return, and a very good 1-2 guy in Bledsoe to back up both backcourt positions.
GSW trade is good, but I don't think GSW will be willing to give up both Barnes and Ezeli.
If we aren't trading Terry elsewhere, I don't want Marco back with that Chicago trade, although I like his game.
For the SAS trade, Blair is undersized at C, so, if Sullinger is to stay as a future PF, they aren't a good combination in terms of size.
Bucks trade is a step for future. I like Sanders since he first showed up in Summer League in his rookie season. Getting him somehow would be great.
Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.

Probably. Besides, I don't think Memphis will also want to give away Arthur and bring in Odom.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: tenn_smoothie on January 11, 2013, 08:59:00 PM
i hate Danny Ainge !!!!!

just when the Celts get Bradley back and look like a new team and start playing together, Danny sticks his big mouth in to disrupt harmony and momentum.

he seems to have some sick tendency to do this - the Celts were rolling when he traded Perk and the team hasn't been the same since.

now this ?

does it always have to be about him ? Paul is playing great and the team is starting to come around. actually, they are starting to benefit from Danny's acquisitions this summer (except for the return of Green, which has been mixed).

i want Paul Pierce retiring as a Celtic - that used to be the norm in Boston - until Mr. Trade-O-Matic became GM.
Title: Wiretap: Celtics Making Pierce Available In Trade Talks
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 12, 2013, 04:53:16 AM
only exploratory trade discussions have been made.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225550/Celtics_Making_Pierce_Available_In_Trade_Talks

im opposed because I feel like any pierce trade would be mostly lateral with the chance to mess up chemistry.
Title: Re: Wiretap: Celtics Making Pierce Available In Trade Talks
Post by: jdz101 on January 12, 2013, 05:40:40 AM
In breaking realgm worthy news; "teams are willing to trade core players, but only for the right deal"

I really hate this time of year....

Not a knock on the OP by the way. Worth posting here.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 08:09:17 AM

Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.

Honestly, I'd rather have Bledsoe as a cheap young piece rather than Gay, who is overpaid not as good as Pierce.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Who on January 12, 2013, 08:16:20 AM

Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.

Honestly, I'd rather have Bledsoe as a cheap young piece rather than Gay, who is overpaid not as good as Pierce.

Yeah, that's another way to go with it.

I think it'd be pretty tough for the Clippers to give Bledsoe for a 35 year old Paul Pierce + the other pieces they'd need to include to match salaries. Better chance with Rudy Gay (26 years old) since he'd be a long term piece alongside CP3, Griffin and D.Jordan.

That offer probably wouldn't be on the table for Pierce.

Edit: Oh, that's the original trade. Pierce to LAC. Yeah, I'm not sure there is enough value there for the Clippers. They are losing three big rotation pieces with Odom, Bledsoe and Caron. I think they need more value going there way for it to be worthwhile for them. Maybe take Bledsoe out of the deal. Then there is nowhere near enough for Memphis. Ahh ... I don't know.

It doesn't look like there is a workable three team trade there between the Clips (Pierce), Boston (Gay) and Memphis. Not enough assets available for Memphis to receive if losing Pierce and not getting Pierce to make it worthwhile for everyone.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Moranis on January 12, 2013, 09:17:29 AM

Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.

Honestly, I'd rather have Bledsoe as a cheap young piece rather than Gay, who is overpaid not as good as Pierce.

Yeah, that's another way to go with it.

I think it'd be pretty tough for the Clippers to give Bledsoe for a 35 year old Paul Pierce + the other pieces they'd need to include to match salaries. Better chance with Rudy Gay (26 years old) since he'd be a long term piece alongside CP3, Griffin and D.Jordan.

That offer probably wouldn't be on the table for Pierce.

Edit: Oh, that's the original trade. Pierce to LAC. Yeah, I'm not sure there is enough value there for the Clippers. They are losing three big rotation pieces with Odom, Bledsoe and Caron. I think they need more value going there way for it to be worthwhile for them. Maybe take Bledsoe out of the deal. Then there is nowhere near enough for Memphis. Ahh ... I don't know.

It doesn't look like there is a workable three team trade there between the Clips (Pierce), Boston (Gay) and Memphis. Not enough assets available for Memphis to receive if losing Pierce and not getting Pierce to make it worthwhile for everyone.
By trading for Butler and Odom they save a ton of cash.  And sure Butler isn't as good as Gay, but he is a similar type player.  Plus they add Odom creating a nice 3 man big man rotation.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 09:29:19 AM

Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.

Honestly, I'd rather have Bledsoe as a cheap young piece rather than Gay, who is overpaid not as good as Pierce.

Yeah, that's another way to go with it.

I think it'd be pretty tough for the Clippers to give Bledsoe for a 35 year old Paul Pierce + the other pieces they'd need to include to match salaries. Better chance with Rudy Gay (26 years old) since he'd be a long term piece alongside CP3, Griffin and D.Jordan.

That offer probably wouldn't be on the table for Pierce.

Edit: Oh, that's the original trade. Pierce to LAC. Yeah, I'm not sure there is enough value there for the Clippers. They are losing three big rotation pieces with Odom, Bledsoe and Caron. I think they need more value going there way for it to be worthwhile for them. Maybe take Bledsoe out of the deal. Then there is nowhere near enough for Memphis. Ahh ... I don't know.

It doesn't look like there is a workable three team trade there between the Clips (Pierce), Boston (Gay) and Memphis. Not enough assets available for Memphis to receive if losing Pierce and not getting Pierce to make it worthwhile for everyone.

I think you're probably right -- would be tough for the Clips to sacrifice depth to upgrade at SF.

But Butler to Pierce is a pretty huge upgrade.  And I'm sure the Clips realize that their depth won't mean as much in the playoffs.  Adding another elite scorer to their starting lineup could make them much harder to beat in a series against the Thunder or the Heat.

Anyway, as I've said previously, the Clippers are the only team I can even imagine trading for Pierce.  Nobody else has both the assets and the situation for it to make sense.  Teams like the Pacers aren't close enough to real title contention to make it worthwhile.  Ainge isn't going to trade Pierce for a highly paid player with no upside like Granger or Gay.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: tenn_smoothie on January 12, 2013, 09:42:35 AM
"Danny would not be doing his job if he wasn't shopping Pierce.  He is the GM and VP of Personnel.  His job is one thing and one thing only:  to give Doc the absolute best talent he can that gives them the best shot to win Banner 18, and to do so under the owner's financial requirements."


Wasn't the "more talented" argument used for the Jeff Green deal ? look where that one got us - we have been looking for a center ever since.

maybe you have not ever played team sports, but chemistry and playing as a unit is half the battle. look at the mess the "very talented" Lakers are in right now. i said when Nash was acquired that he and Kobe's styles would clash and sure enough. then they go and get the absolute wrong coach for their strongest playing style (half court - pound it inside).

but this "talent" emphasis has been going on since the league started - the late 60's Lakers couldn't win a title, the mid 70's sixers also lost in the finals, the 90's Knicks and the 2004 Lakers]. talent only gets you part way there - gotta have chemistry and the talented parts have to mesh and not clash.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: tenn_smoothie on January 12, 2013, 09:48:26 AM
I take solace in the fact that I don't think Wyc would allow this.

That would be pretty awful if Wyc blocked a trade that would benefit the team.

Actually, i would look at such a scenario as a father stopping his young, impulsive son from buying that sparkly new car even though the older car he currently has is still a better vehicle and has unique features that new cars don't have anymore..
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 09:52:06 AM
Quote from: mctyson or during free agency. [/quote

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21539972/postups-gay-trade-bait-as-grizzlies-maneuver-between-winning-taxes
[
Danny would not be doing his job if he wasn't "shopping" Pierce.  He is the GM and VP of Personnel.  His job is one thing and one thing only:  to give Doc the absolute best talent he can that gives them the best shot to win Banner 18, and to do so under the owner's financial requirements.


Wasn't the "more talented" argument used for the Jeff Green deal ? look where that one got us - we have been looking for a center ever since.

maybe you have not ever played team sports, but chemistry and playing as a unit is half the battle. look at the mess the "very talented" Lakers are in right now. i said when Nash was acquired that he and Kobe's styles would clash and sure enough. then they go and get the absolute wrong coach for their strongest playing style (half court - pound it inside).

but this "talent" emphasis has been going on since the league started - the late 60's Lakers couldn't win a title, the mid 70's sixers also lost in the finals, the 90's Knicks and the 2004 Lakers]. talent only gets you part way there - gotta have chemistry and the talented parts have to mesh and not clash.

Your point about chemistry is well-taken.

But the talent argument is a valid one, also.

I think what you're getting at is that prioritizing talent over chemistry is not always going to benefit you in the short term.  It's not always a win-now move.  The Green trade certainly didn't seem to improve the 2010-2011 team in the short term, though I still strongly believe that team was never going anywhere without a healthy Shaq; if Shaq had been healthy for the playoff run, we might view the trade a lot differently in terms of how it affected the team that year.  In the long term, I am of the opinion that the Green trade really benefited the Celtics.  We're much better off with Green than we would be with Perk making similar money, in my opinion. 

Similarly, trading Pierce for the sake of talent probably wouldn't improve the team this year.  But in any case trading Pierce would be a sign that Ainge doesn't think the team is going to win it all this year -- he'd be positioning the team to be more competitive in the future (i.e. post-Pierce/KG).
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: tenn_smoothie on January 12, 2013, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: mctyson or during free agency. [/quote

Danny would not be doing his job if he wasn't "shopping" Pierce.  He is the GM and VP of Personnel.  His job is one thing and one thing only:  to give Doc the absolute best talent he can that gives them the best shot to win Banner 18, and to do so under the owner's financial requirements.


Wasn't the "more talented" argument used for the Jeff Green deal ? look where that one got us - we have been looking for a center ever since.

chemistry and playing as a unit is half the battle. look at the mess the "very talented" Lakers are in right now. i said when Nash was acquired that he and Kobe's styles would clash and sure enough. then they go and get the absolute wrong coach for their strongest playing style (half court - pound it inside).

but this "talent" emphasis has been going on since the league started - the late 60's Lakers couldn't win a title, the mid 70's sixers also lost in the finals, the 90's Knicks and the 2004 Lakers]. talent only gets you part way there - gotta have chemistry and the talented parts have to mesh and not clash.

Your point about chemistry is well-taken.

But the talent argument is a valid one, also.

I think what you're getting at is that prioritizing talent over chemistry is not always going to benefit you in the short term.  It's not always a win-now move.  The Green trade certainly didn't seem to improve the 2010-2011 team in the short term, though I still strongly believe that team was never going anywhere without a healthy Shaq; if Shaq had been healthy for the playoff run, we might view the trade a lot differently in terms of how it affected the team that year.  In the long term, I am of the opinion that the Green trade really benefited the Celtics.  We're much better off with Green than we would be with Perk making similar money, in my opinion. 

Similarly, trading Pierce for the sake of talent probably wouldn't improve the team this year.  But in any case trading Pierce would be a sign that Ainge doesn't think the team is going to win it all this year -- he'd be positioning the team to be more competitive in the future (i.e. post-Pierce/KG).

talent is important and making moves with the long-term in mind is also smart - the only problem with that philosophy is that it doesn't fit the Celtics current situation - which is a Win Now.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: alajet on January 12, 2013, 10:09:39 AM

Bledsoe would need to go to Memphis in that trade.

Doesn't make sense for him to end up in Boston and for Memphis to get so little.

Honestly, I'd rather have Bledsoe as a cheap young piece rather than Gay, who is overpaid not as good as Pierce.

Yeah, that's another way to go with it.

I think it'd be pretty tough for the Clippers to give Bledsoe for a 35 year old Paul Pierce + the other pieces they'd need to include to match salaries. Better chance with Rudy Gay (26 years old) since he'd be a long term piece alongside CP3, Griffin and D.Jordan.

That offer probably wouldn't be on the table for Pierce.

Edit: Oh, that's the original trade. Pierce to LAC. Yeah, I'm not sure there is enough value there for the Clippers. They are losing three big rotation pieces with Odom, Bledsoe and Caron. I think they need more value going there way for it to be worthwhile for them. Maybe take Bledsoe out of the deal. Then there is nowhere near enough for Memphis. Ahh ... I don't know.

It doesn't look like there is a workable three team trade there between the Clips (Pierce), Boston (Gay) and Memphis. Not enough assets available for Memphis to receive if losing Pierce and not getting Pierce to make it worthwhile for everyone.

I think you're probably right -- would be tough for the Clips to sacrifice depth to upgrade at SF.

But Butler to Pierce is a pretty huge upgrade.  And I'm sure the Clips realize that their depth won't mean as much in the playoffs.  Adding another elite scorer to their starting lineup could make them much harder to beat in a series against the Thunder or the Heat.

Anyway, as I've said previously, the Clippers are the only team I can even imagine trading for Pierce.  Nobody else has both the assets and the situation for it to make sense.  Teams like the Pacers aren't close enough to real title contention to make it worthwhile.  Ainge isn't going to trade Pierce for a highly paid player with no upside like Granger or Gay.

Well said. If there is a team that wants a veteran at the end of his career, that team would be trying to contend, and the closest thing could be the Clippers.

But I disagree that their bench will mean less come play-off time. They have a bench can completely destroy the opposition and unless you are really crushing them against their starters, you are in trouble.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: CoachBo on January 12, 2013, 10:12:53 AM
Seven pages for the annual smokescreen, eh, and from a reporter whose accuracy record is questionable?

LOL.

Pierce isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 12, 2013, 10:27:25 AM
Here we go again.

Pierce is playing great this season, and even with that I dont think teams would offer really good value for him since he's what, 34 now...

He'll retire a Celtic.f
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 10:31:27 AM
Seven pages for the annual smokescreen, eh, and from a reporter whose accuracy record is questionable?

LOL.

Pierce isn't going anywhere.

Heheh, yeah, good point.  But hey, we've got to talk about something, right?
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 12, 2013, 11:37:30 AM
Seven pages for the annual smokescreen, eh, and from a reporter whose accuracy record is questionable?

LOL.

Pierce isn't going anywhere.

Heheh, yeah, good point.  But hey, we've got to talk about something, right?

Haha. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: kozlodoev on January 12, 2013, 12:07:09 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

Only one I can think of is the Clippers (who are already a contender).

Butler + Odom + Bledsoe

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Pierce + Wilcox + Barbosa

That could make sense if the Celtics then trade Rondo for something. Bledsoe has been phenomenal in limited minutes for the Clips and pairing him with Bradley could give the Celtics a ferocious, very fast and athletic combo in the backcourt on both ends of the floor.

The Clippers would obviously prefer not to give up Bledsoe, who has been GREAT this year, but going from Butler to Pierce is a pretty huge upgrade, and could make them nearly unstoppable this season.
Thanks, but I'd like a little more than a pile of spare parts and garbage for Paul Pierce.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: CFAN38 on January 12, 2013, 12:32:23 PM
There are obvously a lot of problems with trading Pierce.

The biggest one I see is the return fitting in with the current team. Danny just gave a nice sized contract to Green. If pierce is traded for a SF this player has to be light years ahead of Green for it to make sense. If the SFs rank Durnat, Lebron, Melo in the first tier then the 2nd tier is Prob Pierce, George, Deng, Iqidala, Gay then 3rd would be Batum, Wallace, Galinari. Obviously the 2nd and 3rd are debatable. But with starters minutes Green would be close to that 3rd tier and possibly a lower end 2nd tier (compare his stats his last year in OKC to gay/Deng).

I personally only trade the captain for a big man under 28 who has the potential to be the defensive anchor post KG. I just dont think this is going to happen.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 12:56:24 PM
What team is going to trade the Celtics something of value for Pierce?  Who is a Paul Pierce away from being a contender, THIS year?

Only one I can think of is the Clippers (who are already a contender).

Butler + Odom + Bledsoe

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Topic Summary
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Pierce + Wilcox + Barbosa

That could make sense if the Celtics then trade Rondo for something. Bledsoe has been phenomenal in limited minutes for the Clips and pairing him with Bradley could give the Celtics a ferocious, very fast and athletic combo in the backcourt on both ends of the floor.

The Clippers would obviously prefer not to give up Bledsoe, who has been GREAT this year, but going from Butler to Pierce is a pretty huge upgrade, and could make them nearly unstoppable this season.
Thanks, but I'd like a little more than a pile of spare parts and garbage for Paul Pierce.

Eric Bledsoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW2fK5NGxTk
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: kozlodoev on January 12, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Please
Eric Bledsoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW2fK5NGxTk
Yes, I know who Eric Bledsoe is. Can you now please explain why I should be excited about swapping our starting SF and top scorer for a third-year guy who can't average 20 minutes per game, and seems to lack an NBA position?
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: triboy16f on January 12, 2013, 02:01:32 PM
only trades that make sense to me are with nuggets, Clippers, possibly the bucks, rockets. Bc these teams might be a pierce away to go deep in the playoffs/win a ring and for us, we get key future pieces and give Jeff Green the starting position

to clippers - pierce
to bos - bledsoe, butler, 1st round pick

I can't see who else clips can give you. Their team is not very young and had to give up a ton for paul. I wouldn't do this trade though, bc its not enough back in return for the long term

to denver - pierce, Bass
to bos - brewer , chandler, Mozgov

This trade would be good for both teams. I always like brewer and mozgov would help our need for a decent backup center. But the key to this deal would be pending on the health of Chandler. He would have to be fully healed from his injury. Green and Chandler both pretty young still would set our sf spot for a the long term

to bucks - pierce
to bos - harris, udoh 1st round pick + salary fill in

Or pierce and melo for Harris, Henson. But likely the bucks will not trade away Henson who is showing glimpse of his potential these past few games. But with no henson why one may consider this trade is, you get udoh a former 6th pick who is raw but has elite physical abilities for a pf/c. He can play right now but mainly rebound and block shots. Under Kg's guidance who knows how good he may become. Harris is a kid i've had my eye on ever since pre season. And he also has torched us this year. He has potential to be the "guy" in the 4th quarter. Has some paul pierce in him, has some rudy gay in him. Just needs time to play

To rockets: Pierce
To bos : Parsons + Royce White +salary fill ins

the rockets get pierce to make a deep run and the celts get a future sf who is already a good player. Royce white can be considered a bonus. Maybe someone in the celts org can get some sense into the kid and let him know not everything in life is not fair. Likely though the rockets would not make this trade. Parsons is much younger and a very good sf

Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 03:40:09 PM
Please
Eric Bledsoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW2fK5NGxTk
Yes, I know who Eric Bledsoe is. Can you now please explain why I should be excited about swapping our starting SF and top scorer for a third-year guy who can't average 20 minutes per game, and seems to lack an NBA position?

You shouldn't.

But the whole premise of Paul Pierce being traded has to assume that Danny is basically blowing the team up.

So we're not going to be excited about that aspect of it.  Any trade of Paul Pierce will mean the team gets substantially worse in the short term.

That said, if Danny is blowing it up, trading Pierce and perhaps Rondo as well, I would get excited about a young backcourt of Bledsoe and Bradley combining with Sullinger and whoever Danny trades Rondo for.
Title: Re: Celtics "open to discussing Paul Pierce"?!
Post by: PhoSita on January 12, 2013, 03:43:18 PM
only trades that make sense to me are with nuggets, Clippers, possibly the bucks, rockets. Bc these teams might be a pierce away to go deep in the playoffs/win a ring and for us, we get key future pieces and give Jeff Green the starting position


In terms of pieces for the future, I think Eric Bledsoe has more value than Wilson Chandler, Timofey Mozgov, Chandler Parsons, Tobias Harris, etc.

The only one that's close is Parsons.  But I don't see the incentive from the Rockets perspective.

Bledsoe is the only one of that group who has star upside.  You mentioned Henson, who is also intriguing, but there's too small a sample size there.  Plus, again, there's no incentive for the Bucks.

Also, any team that Pierce gets traded to would have to be one he'd actually want to spend his last season or three playing for.  Otherwise, he'll probably just retire.