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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticG1 on January 08, 2013, 05:50:05 PM

Title: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 08, 2013, 05:50:05 PM
I was trying to think of some big bodies that have flown under the radar.

Seems like he is somehwhat close to returning. I don't pay attention to the Warriors at all to be honest but they seem to be rolling at the moment and Bogut doesn't seem like he would necessarily fit in seamlessly with the team, especially since he hasn't really played with them much. He also has is being paid a lot of money which I'm sure Golden State isn't thrilled with right now.

It would definitely be somewhat of a risk but if he got healthy and could give 75% of what he could give when he normally plays than that would be huge. A 7 footer who can rebound, defend, block shots and has a post game.

Any change the Warriors would be enticed by a package such as Green and Lee?

Some people may think thats not enough but Boguts stock has to be at an all time low right now.

For people that think it's too much (given the risk) I definitely see your point but I think the only hole it really leaves us with is a back up 3. Green isn't playing a ton of minutes anyway right now and it doesn't seem like, at least for now that he is gonna get close to that 30 min mark that a lot of people were anticipating prior to the season.

What are people's thoughts? For me worst case scenario and Bogut remains injured, we really only lose a back up 3 for the playoffs who wouldn't be looking at many minutes anyway
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: eugen on January 08, 2013, 06:55:15 PM
Not healthy. Almost broken every season
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: cman88 on January 08, 2013, 06:57:33 PM
so he can sit on the bench in a suit taking up salary cap money?
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Birdman on January 08, 2013, 07:00:33 PM
He is too injury prone
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 08, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
He is a MONEY PIT
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 07:20:43 PM
I was trying to think of some big bodies that have flown under the radar.

Seems like he is somehwhat close to returning. I don't pay attention to the Warriors at all to be honest but they seem to be rolling at the moment and Bogut doesn't seem like he would necessarily fit in seamlessly with the team, especially since he hasn't really played with them much. He also has is being paid a lot of money which I'm sure Golden State isn't thrilled with right now.

It would definitely be somewhat of a risk but if he got healthy and could give 75% of what he could give when he normally plays than that would be huge. A 7 footer who can rebound, defend, block shots and has a post game.

Any change the Warriors would be enticed by a package such as Green and Lee?

Some people may think thats not enough but Boguts stock has to be at an all time low right now.

For people that think it's too much (given the risk) I definitely see your point but I think the only hole it really leaves us with is a back up 3. Green isn't playing a ton of minutes anyway right now and it doesn't seem like, at least for now that he is gonna get close to that 30 min mark that a lot of people were anticipating prior to the season.

What are people's thoughts? For me worst case scenario and Bogut remains injured, we really only lose a back up 3 for the playoffs who wouldn't be looking at many minutes anyway

The Warriors gave up Monta Ellis and Udoh for him, and then took a lot of flack from their fans when they lied about his injury. I highly doubt they trade him now before they see if he returns to form. His value can only improve at this point.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: blackbird on January 08, 2013, 07:32:20 PM
I love Bogut and I think he's perfect for this team. Him playing next to KG would be a dream.

But unfortunately I can't imagine a scenario in which the Warriors dump him.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 08, 2013, 07:36:13 PM
Say no to bigs who can't defend, we already have a few of them.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 07:38:28 PM
Say no to bigs who can't defend, we already have a few of them.

what? Bogut is a great defender. His defense in the middle is the main reason the Warriors traded for him!
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Mr October on January 08, 2013, 07:42:14 PM
He is too injury prone

agree.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Shots on January 08, 2013, 07:45:14 PM
Say no to bigs who can't defend, we already have a few of them.

Bogut? Can't defend? Before his injury (the freak elbow injury) I'm fairly sure the only player who had a better defensive impact on his team was Kevin Garnett.

However, in order to actually obtain Bogut, the team would have to part with some rather integral parts. Given his injury record, I'd say it's too big a gamble. Furthermore, I don't see why Golden State would trade him before at least giving him a try. If he is not in their long term plans (which I think he very much is), they can hardly hurt his stock, as he hasn't played for more or less two years.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 08, 2013, 07:47:32 PM
I was trying to think of some big bodies that have flown under the radar.

Seems like he is somehwhat close to returning. I don't pay attention to the Warriors at all to be honest but they seem to be rolling at the moment and Bogut doesn't seem like he would necessarily fit in seamlessly with the team, especially since he hasn't really played with them much. He also has is being paid a lot of money which I'm sure Golden State isn't thrilled with right now.

It would definitely be somewhat of a risk but if he got healthy and could give 75% of what he could give when he normally plays than that would be huge. A 7 footer who can rebound, defend, block shots and has a post game.

Any change the Warriors would be enticed by a package such as Green and Lee?

Some people may think thats not enough but Boguts stock has to be at an all time low right now.

For people that think it's too much (given the risk) I definitely see your point but I think the only hole it really leaves us with is a back up 3. Green isn't playing a ton of minutes anyway right now and it doesn't seem like, at least for now that he is gonna get close to that 30 min mark that a lot of people were anticipating prior to the season.

What are people's thoughts? For me worst case scenario and Bogut remains injured, we really only lose a back up 3 for the playoffs who wouldn't be looking at many minutes anyway

The Warriors gave up Monta Ellis and Udoh for him, and then took a lot of flack from their fans when they lied about his injury. I highly doubt they trade him now before they see if he returns to form. His value can only improve at this point.

You really think they would get a lot of flack?

It's not like the Warriors are doing bad. They are killing it. I don't think any fans even remember Monta Ellis there.

It would be foolish for their management (or the fans) to let something like that get in the way of improving their team
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 07:49:53 PM
I was trying to think of some big bodies that have flown under the radar.

Seems like he is somehwhat close to returning. I don't pay attention to the Warriors at all to be honest but they seem to be rolling at the moment and Bogut doesn't seem like he would necessarily fit in seamlessly with the team, especially since he hasn't really played with them much. He also has is being paid a lot of money which I'm sure Golden State isn't thrilled with right now.

It would definitely be somewhat of a risk but if he got healthy and could give 75% of what he could give when he normally plays than that would be huge. A 7 footer who can rebound, defend, block shots and has a post game.

Any change the Warriors would be enticed by a package such as Green and Lee?

Some people may think thats not enough but Boguts stock has to be at an all time low right now.

For people that think it's too much (given the risk) I definitely see your point but I think the only hole it really leaves us with is a back up 3. Green isn't playing a ton of minutes anyway right now and it doesn't seem like, at least for now that he is gonna get close to that 30 min mark that a lot of people were anticipating prior to the season.

What are people's thoughts? For me worst case scenario and Bogut remains injured, we really only lose a back up 3 for the playoffs who wouldn't be looking at many minutes anyway

The Warriors gave up Monta Ellis and Udoh for him, and then took a lot of flack from their fans when they lied about his injury. I highly doubt they trade him now before they see if he returns to form. His value can only improve at this point.

You really think they would get a lot of flack?

It's not like the Warriors are doing bad. They are killing it. I don't think any fans even remember Monta Ellis there.

It would be foolish for their management (or the fans) to let something like that get in the way of improving their team

for trading Monta, no , most fans are happy with that, but for lying about Bogut's injury and hiding the fact that it was a microfracture surgery, yes, they have gotten a TON of flack for it. They lost a lot of trust from their fans. Bogut is the one who came out and told the truth because he got tired of always being asked when he was going to return from a relatively minor injury.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 08, 2013, 07:55:14 PM
He is too injury prone

agree.
Clearly this is hypothetical but I'm trying to weigh options to get a big man.

Options to me are:

A: Stand pat. We don't need a big man or we can pick up Kenyon Martin, or a Ryan Hollins type getting bought out at the deadline.

B. Try and acquire a low tier center without giving up too much. Not sure maybe Dalembert/R. Lopez (anyone else?)

C. Give up one of our talented young kids (AB or Sully) packaged with Lee ,Green (something to that effect) for a Marcin Gortat type.

D. Give up possibly AB, Sully and the lot for Cousins, Andy V something like that.

E. Give up a couple mid level pieces we have to acquire someone like Bogut who's value is very low right now but could be huge if healthy.

Honestly none of the options are extremely appealing to me. I'm definitely a homer and hate giving up anyone on the team usually. So to me, I wouldn't really be in favor of gutting the team (especially if we continue to play well) and we be inclined to pick option A,B or E
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 08, 2013, 07:57:22 PM
The warriors are playing well allowing Bogut to take his time coming back. When he does he is a huge bonus. Don't see GS trading him.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 08, 2013, 07:59:01 PM
I was trying to think of some big bodies that have flown under the radar.

Seems like he is somehwhat close to returning. I don't pay attention to the Warriors at all to be honest but they seem to be rolling at the moment and Bogut doesn't seem like he would necessarily fit in seamlessly with the team, especially since he hasn't really played with them much. He also has is being paid a lot of money which I'm sure Golden State isn't thrilled with right now.

It would definitely be somewhat of a risk but if he got healthy and could give 75% of what he could give when he normally plays than that would be huge. A 7 footer who can rebound, defend, block shots and has a post game.

Any change the Warriors would be enticed by a package such as Green and Lee?

Some people may think thats not enough but Boguts stock has to be at an all time low right now.

For people that think it's too much (given the risk) I definitely see your point but I think the only hole it really leaves us with is a back up 3. Green isn't playing a ton of minutes anyway right now and it doesn't seem like, at least for now that he is gonna get close to that 30 min mark that a lot of people were anticipating prior to the season.

What are people's thoughts? For me worst case scenario and Bogut remains injured, we really only lose a back up 3 for the playoffs who wouldn't be looking at many minutes anyway

The Warriors gave up Monta Ellis and Udoh for him, and then took a lot of flack from their fans when they lied about his injury. I highly doubt they trade him now before they see if he returns to form. His value can only improve at this point.

You really think they would get a lot of flack?

It's not like the Warriors are doing bad. They are killing it. I don't think any fans even remember Monta Ellis there.

It would be foolish for their management (or the fans) to let something like that get in the way of improving their team

for trading Monta, no , most fans are happy with that, but for lying about Bogut's injury and hiding the fact that it was a microfracture surgery, yes, they have gotten a TON of flack for it. They lost a lot of trust from their fans. Bogut is the one who came out and told the truth because he got tired of always being asked when he was going to return from a relatively minor injury.

I'm not gonna pretend to know that situation at all.

But isn't getting Green and Lee pretty good value at this point especially with how they are playing atm? It's not like they are getting trash or something for him.

Trust me I'm not 100% into this trade. Just kind of kicking the tires. I'd be curious to know what Warriors fans would think of the trade. Are they expecting Bogut to be a big factor or do they think he will never get rolling?



Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 08:00:16 PM
I just don't see E as a viable option. The Warriors are not going to give up Bogut for a couple of mid level pieces, it aint happening. Especially not when he will reportedly be back soon.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 08:02:36 PM
I was trying to think of some big bodies that have flown under the radar.

Seems like he is somehwhat close to returning. I don't pay attention to the Warriors at all to be honest but they seem to be rolling at the moment and Bogut doesn't seem like he would necessarily fit in seamlessly with the team, especially since he hasn't really played with them much. He also has is being paid a lot of money which I'm sure Golden State isn't thrilled with right now.

It would definitely be somewhat of a risk but if he got healthy and could give 75% of what he could give when he normally plays than that would be huge. A 7 footer who can rebound, defend, block shots and has a post game.

Any change the Warriors would be enticed by a package such as Green and Lee?

Some people may think thats not enough but Boguts stock has to be at an all time low right now.

For people that think it's too much (given the risk) I definitely see your point but I think the only hole it really leaves us with is a back up 3. Green isn't playing a ton of minutes anyway right now and it doesn't seem like, at least for now that he is gonna get close to that 30 min mark that a lot of people were anticipating prior to the season.

What are people's thoughts? For me worst case scenario and Bogut remains injured, we really only lose a back up 3 for the playoffs who wouldn't be looking at many minutes anyway

The Warriors gave up Monta Ellis and Udoh for him, and then took a lot of flack from their fans when they lied about his injury. I highly doubt they trade him now before they see if he returns to form. His value can only improve at this point.

You really think they would get a lot of flack?

It's not like the Warriors are doing bad. They are killing it. I don't think any fans even remember Monta Ellis there.

It would be foolish for their management (or the fans) to let something like that get in the way of improving their team

for trading Monta, no , most fans are happy with that, but for lying about Bogut's injury and hiding the fact that it was a microfracture surgery, yes, they have gotten a TON of flack for it. They lost a lot of trust from their fans. Bogut is the one who came out and told the truth because he got tired of always being asked when he was going to return from a relatively minor injury.

I'm not gonna pretend to know that situation at all.

But isn't getting Green and Lee pretty good value at this point especially with how they are playing atm? It's not like they are getting trash or something for him.

Trust me I'm not 100% into this trade. Just kind of kicking the tires. I'd be curious to know what Warriors fans would think of the trade. Are they expecting Bogut to be a big factor or do they think he will never get rolling?

From all reports I have read, they expect Bogut to be the factor that makes them legit contenders, plus they have always been after a top defensive center like him. He is also supposedly on his way back soon after much improvement.

Yea, Green, Lee, or Bass are not garbage, but they are also not the type of players that get you a top level center. The Warriors wouldn't need Green too much with Barnes and Graymond Green doing very well for them. Same for Bass behind David Lee. Courtney Lee would also be behind Thompson and Jack.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: TripleOT on January 08, 2013, 11:30:04 PM
Golden State is set at the wing positions, so Lee and Green would be of no interest to them.  They have had a ton of success with rookie contract guys like Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and Dreymond Green, and have $14m and two more years tied into Richard Jefferson and Brandon Rush. 

Lee and Carl Landry have the PF minutes covered, so Green and Bass aren't needed there. 

Not a good match.   The only thing this Warriors team needs is a center who can score in the low post and defend - the things a healthy Bogat can do.  He will be on an expiring deal next season, so having him sit around and get healthy is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 08, 2013, 11:37:14 PM
Golden State is set at the wing positions, so Lee and Green would be of no interest to them.  They have had a ton of success with rookie contract guys like Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and Dreymond Green, and have $14m and two more years tied into Richard Jefferson and Brandon Rush. 

Lee and Carl Landry have the PF minutes covered, so Green and Bass aren't needed there. 

Not a good match.   The only thing this Warriors team needs is a center who can score in the low post and defend - the things a healthy Bogat can do.  He will be on an expiring deal next season, so having him sit around and get healthy is the right thing to do.

Well put. A healthy Bogut would make us the best defensive team in the league, assuming we didnt give up Bradley, Rondo, Pierce, or KG. Thats a fact. he'd also theoretically make us an above average rebounding team, and a more efficient offensive power.

But Bogut isn't healthy, and the Warriors likely aren't buying what we're selling. KG would be the best fit for them, and he's not on the table.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 08, 2013, 11:56:08 PM
We shouldnt. Because the Dubs wouldnt give him away anyway, atlwast for this year and the next.

They are very high in Bogut, abd the Dubs winning bought him a lot of time to recover. The way GSW is playing defense even without their two best defenders (Bogut and Rush) is great, adding Bogut will make that lineup a contender.

And even if they put him on the block, I dont think we have what they are looking for, which is an All Star caliber SF. And no we wont trade Paul foe Bogiut. Doubt theyll take Pierce anyway.

I will give Biedrins a look though. The way he's playing the last few games, he's slowly turning back intonhis We Believe self. That would be good enough to push us there IMO. Hes rebounding again, blocking shots, playing with energy, still afraid of contact though but hey, he'll be helpful. Best part if that is, he can be available for cheap once Bogut cones back because if his contract, he seems to be the odd man out for that Center rotation. Problem is matching that conteract of his.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Who on January 09, 2013, 02:23:55 AM
No -- too many injury problems. Risk is too high.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: jowwwman on January 09, 2013, 03:25:30 AM
as a long time warrior fan the last thing we need is to take a step back by taking on jeff greens big contract. it's funny that a lot of people here actually think teams would actively try to improve their team by adding green. though the warriors may be willing to consider green in a deal involving jefferson.
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 09, 2013, 04:32:22 AM
No. Im Australian and i say no. Bogut is cooked he needs a fork stuck in him pronto. Its depressing but his body just cant hold up
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: sdceltsfan on January 09, 2013, 05:11:14 AM
hhhcccaaahhh Raef LaFrentz!!!

Woop sorry, just sneezed....

What were you saying about us getting Andrew Bogus???
Title: Re: Andrew Bogut: should we target him?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 09, 2013, 05:44:48 AM
No -- too many injury problems. Risk is too high.

Reward is too high as well though.

He had a couple of bad breaks (pun intended), but he never had a recurring injury.

(It feels like Celticsblog Draft all over again)

But we don't have anything that will interest the DUbs. SO I guess it's moot point.