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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: BleedGreen1989 on January 08, 2013, 05:40:55 PM

Title: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on January 08, 2013, 05:40:55 PM
In one sentence tell me why or why not.

I say no because we do not need any additional pieces to beat our main competition. (Miami)
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: celts10 on January 08, 2013, 05:45:11 PM
Before Bradley returned, I'd have said yes.

Now? I'm not sure. Everyone goes back to their natural roles when Bradley's in the game. We could still use some additional help no doubt, but I'd like to continue with the current lineup for a little while longer. It seems like center is a big concern, although Garnett really fits that role well at this stage in his career. Maybe an upgrade over Bass -- like a Josh Smith or Al Jefferson -- may be a better fit although I'm sure we'd have to give up quite a bit to get them.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: AB_Celtic on January 08, 2013, 05:46:44 PM
In one sentence tell me why or why not.

I say no because we do not need any additional pieces to beat our main competition. (Miami)

If Miami lands Birdman, it's gonna be that much harder for us.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 08, 2013, 05:49:58 PM
No, we don't. We get healthy, find two serviceable pick-ups and we're good to go.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 08, 2013, 05:52:32 PM
I think we need to let the Bradley-era play out longer than 4 games to get a better feel for the impact.  Then it's either a big change (if C's revert to pre-Indiana game level of play) or a smaller change -- like trading for Okafur.

But either way I do think we need to make a trade if our goal is to contend for a championship this year.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 08, 2013, 06:00:16 PM
I think we need to let the Bradley-era play out longer than 4 games to get a better feel for the impact.  Then it's either a big change (if C's revert to pre-Indiana game level of play) or a smaller change -- like trading for Okafur.

But either way I do think we need to make a trade if our goal is to contend for a championship this year.

AGREED! some bum big is not going to cut it against the heat. we are not beating Miami with small ball. you have to counter that with BIG ball. we were only better than them at TWO positions in the playoffs. PG and C.

You have to use those advantages and pound them relentlessly. KG destroyed Anthony. Now if bosh wants to play KG down low we need another big who can destroy anthony when KG sits. wilcox is not the guy. sully is a PF. you have to keep the pounding down low going in perpetual motion. Keep miami on their heels all game. this way it is two fold. a big center always in to score and protect the paint/rim. We cannot count on AB to stop every dribble drive by wade or lebron or others on that team.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: wdleehi on January 08, 2013, 06:01:44 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small. 



Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 08, 2013, 06:03:07 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.

THANK YOU! my thoughts above were exactly the same.  :D
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 08, 2013, 06:07:02 PM
In one sentence tell me why or why not.

I say no because we do not need any additional pieces to beat our main competition. (Miami)

If Miami lands Birdman, it's gonna be that much harder for us.

already going to be MUCH harder than last year.Miami is much better. They have two of the best in the game in wade and lebum. then when they dribble drive they can kick it out to battier, miller or traitor Allen who can destroy you from beyond the arc. If and that is a big IF we get a shot at them one more time in the playoffs we will need superior rim protection for 48 minutes a night and superior perimeter defense for 48 minutes a night.

and to get that we need another big who can block shots, rebound and score a tad bit also to expose the advantage we will have at the 5 over miami. sully will be fine at the 4 but wilcox or collins at the 5 backing up KG will not cut it against miami.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: PhoSita on January 08, 2013, 06:10:04 PM
Even after the last few games, which admittedly I totally did not see coming, I still think this team is one significant piece in the front-court away from being a true contender for the title.

It's tough, though, because I think the Celtics are in a place where it doesn't make sense to trade their young assets unless it's for an All-Star caliber player, but it's difficult to come up with too many players of that quality who would be available for what the Celtics have to offer.

So that means the Celtics basically have to find a home-run blockbuster or convince some team with a significant big man asset (e.g. Gortat) to trade for a guy like Courtney Lee or Brandon Bass.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: erisred on January 08, 2013, 06:17:57 PM
In one sentence tell me why or why not.
Yes, but I doubt there will be a trade available at the deadline that would give us what we need...a STAR to make it a "big three" again (Rondo, STAR, & Pierce/KG)...without striping the rest of the squad down to where it can't win it all.

Unless Danny gets a slam dunk of a deal we need to let Bradley and Sullinger continue to develop value and keep developing Melo. Down the road, when their values are high we can flip them for the stars we need, or discover they have become the stars we needed all along.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: cman88 on January 08, 2013, 06:27:55 PM
In one sentence tell me why or why not.

I say no because we do not need any additional pieces to beat our main competition. (Miami)

If Miami lands Birdman, it's gonna be that much harder for us.

already going to be MUCH harder than last year.Miami is much better. They have two of the best in the game in wade and lebum. then when they dribble drive they can kick it out to battier, miller or traitor Allen who can destroy you from beyond the arc. If and that is a big IF we get a shot at them one more time in the playoffs we will need superior rim protection for 48 minutes a night and superior perimeter defense for 48 minutes a night.

and to get that we need another big who can block shots, rebound and score a tad bit also to expose the advantage we will have at the 5 over miami. sully will be fine at the 4 but wilcox or collins at the 5 backing up KG will not cut it against miami.

Offensively Miami may be more dangerous, but i've kind of been of the impression that they have regressed defensively quite abit this year.

I'm just not sure a large trade is needed. we certainly need an upgrade for when KG sits...but does it need to be large(while giving up talent in other areas) or a vet-min signing....I feel like with a large trade you are creating holes elsewhere.

we just played and beat 3 teams with QUALITY centers in Chandler, Hortford, hibbert...

I think its clear about two things from last year to this year.

1. Kevin Garnett IS a center. he plays much better at that position.

2. Our excellent guard defense Can/does mask the big deficiencies because Bradley/Lee will not let their man penetrate


a signing like K-mart may just be what we need.


Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Quetzalcoatl on January 08, 2013, 06:34:03 PM
Short of getting Cousins in a steal of a trade for something like Sully and Green, I don't think we're going to be able to put together a team that is capable of beating the Heat this year without real injuries to the Miami boys. 

However, I like our 4 good starters a lot - Rondo, Pierce, KG & Bradley - and I think our bench is actually coming along nicely.

In order for us to compete, I think we need to:

1.) Keep those 4 on the team
2.) Try just hard enough to get into the playoffs
3.) Move KG to Center for the last few weeks of the season and the duration of the playoffs, but keep him at PF for now to save his knees
4.) Hope for a few injuries like Rose & Bosh

I honestly think the Celtics can match up with the Clippers, Knicks and Thunder in a playoff series if the Celtics are healthy. Otherwise, why blow up the team if we're not going to win anyways and it would mean giving up one or more of Rondo/Bradley/Sully when those three should be affordable, legit starters for years to come?  I know you should always try to go for the championship if you can make it, but at the same time, let's not give away great pieces out of panic.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 08, 2013, 06:36:56 PM
I'd say no - at least right now.

Let's ride this momentum up to the Feb trade deadline, then go from there.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: cman88 on January 08, 2013, 06:41:01 PM
maybe its me, but I feel like the Heat have regressed this year, at least defensively(part of that is they play small/ Miller, Ray are sieves)...the Knicks KILLED them the two times they played.

I really don't see any team as "unbeatable" in the East...but thats just me.

Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 06:42:22 PM
We look fantastic right now, but to win a title this year we need another big man who can play defense, rebound, and be enough of a threat on offense to keep defenses honest. We need a trade, but not a major trade. We should be able to get a player like Dalembert for Courtney Lee for example. We don't need to trade Sullinger and or Bradley for a top level big man.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on January 08, 2013, 06:51:01 PM
I see nobody really stuck to the one sentence lol
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 08, 2013, 06:53:41 PM
If a trade involving bass/sully lee/bradley for gortat is the one your thinking about then no. I dont see gortat being the guy that puts us over the edge.

The last 3 games im thinking keep this team together and then develop melo.. let him play the full year in maine then with another training camp under his belt and a little bit more bulk i think he can be nba ready. Fab is 2-3 go to moves in the post to become a solid big man.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: eugen on January 08, 2013, 06:53:58 PM
We have to trade Rondo in exchange of one big man
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: hpantazo on January 08, 2013, 07:18:47 PM
We have to trade Rondo in exchange of one big man

we are not winning a title if we trade Rondo. Also, we are not likely to get a franchise cornerstone big man worth trading Rondo for ( like a Dwight Howard)
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 08, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
If a trade involving bass/sully lee/bradley for gortat is the one your thinking about then no. I dont see gortat being the guy that puts us over the edge.

The last 3 games im thinking keep this team together and then develop melo.. let him play the full year in maine then with another training camp under his belt and a little bit more bulk i think he can be nba ready. Fab is 2-3 go to moves in the post to become a solid big man.

okay, sooooooooooooo we let one more year run out on PP and KG without a serious chance at 18? youy do realize PP and KG's tank is running low at this stage of their careers?
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Edgar on January 08, 2013, 07:40:29 PM
Not neccesarly

we need a big body via agent or trade
without messing that much with the lineup


imho that body will be desisive to match against Miami as pointed here.
specially if Bosh bring it on during playoffs


Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on January 08, 2013, 08:21:17 PM
traded not needed
already we feelin each other
get new players this far in
would be like starting over


lets run with what we got
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 08, 2013, 08:27:40 PM
maybe its me, but I feel like the Heat have regressed this year, at least defensively(part of that is they play small/ Miller, Ray are sieves)...the Knicks KILLED them the two times they played.

I really don't see any team as "unbeatable" in the East...but thats just me.

trust me. if we had wade, Lebron and bosh with Allen, Miller and Battier plenty here would think it would be a cakewalk for us.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: pp34isthe1 on January 08, 2013, 08:28:35 PM
Yes if its there, no if its not. A trade that includes any combo of Terry/Bass/Melo and picks that can return a 20-25mpg center that can produce almost 10rpg. This however isnt likely unless Danny pulls of magic considering Bass and Terrys contracts.


Lets call Yao Ming, his foot has got to be some what better right? Id take a 1 footed Yao over Collins any day.  ;)
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Mazingerz on January 08, 2013, 08:55:18 PM
A serviceable Center will do .  We have 2 slots open, and i think this is reserved for the a backup PF (Kenyon Marin im looking at you) a Center (i dont know who is available yet - waiting for the waiver wires).

A trade is not necessary. Lets just ride out this season and enjoy KG and Pierce's walk off to the sunset.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 08, 2013, 09:00:24 PM
A serviceable Center will do .  We have 2 slots open, and i think this is reserved for the a backup PF (Kenyon Marin im looking at you) a Center (i dont know who is available yet - waiting for the waiver wires).

A trade is not necessary. Lets just ride out this season and enjoy KG and Pierce's walk off to the sunset.

One big, hopefully a center, and a SF... that's the need.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Roy H. on January 08, 2013, 09:03:28 PM
The team has a serious flaw in terms of interior defense and rebounding.  If there's a good big man out there, it could help transform our team.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: j804 on January 08, 2013, 09:24:00 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: wdleehi on January 08, 2013, 09:43:04 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat. 
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 08, 2013, 09:59:28 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat.

While the Celtics had Bradley injured, Ray Allen playing on crutches...
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: j804 on January 08, 2013, 10:04:05 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat.

While the Celtics had Bradley injured, Ray Allen playing on crutches...
It was mainly Wade breaking us down and us being too slow to get on their 3pt shooters that killed us. If we stay healthy for the most part their shooters and Wade will have a much tougher time this go around. We got younger while their role players look old or just spent from there championship run.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: cman88 on January 08, 2013, 10:05:15 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat.

While the Celtics had Bradley injured, Ray Allen playing on crutches...

a shell of pierce with an MCL strain, Pietrus on a bum knee...
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 08, 2013, 10:07:00 PM
I say no.

Basically, I've never been interested in breaking up the core of Rondo, Pierce, and Garnett, and I think the rest of our roster is more valuable as players for the Celtics than they are as trade chips.

There:  One sentence. 
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: mctyson on January 09, 2013, 06:23:06 AM
In one sentence tell me why or why not.

I say no because we do not need any additional pieces to beat our main competition. (Miami)

No, especially if the asking price includes Sullinger or Bradley.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: 2short on January 09, 2013, 06:28:53 AM
yes if it doesn't gut team, dalembert ?

(one bad sentence!)
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: heyvik on January 09, 2013, 07:25:23 AM
I think we need to let the Bradley-era play out longer than 4 games to get a better feel for the impact.  Then it's either a big change (if C's revert to pre-Indiana game level of play) or a smaller change -- like trading for Okafur.

But either way I do think we need to make a trade if our goal is to contend for a championship this year.

AGREED! some bum big is not going to cut it against the heat. we are not beating Miami with small ball. you have to counter that with BIG ball. we were only better than them at TWO positions in the playoffs. PG and C.

You have to use those advantages and pound them relentlessly. KG destroyed Anthony. Now if bosh wants to play KG down low we need another big who can destroy anthony when KG sits. wilcox is not the guy. sully is a PF. you have to keep the pounding down low going in perpetual motion. Keep miami on their heels all game. this way it is two fold. a big center always in to score and protect the paint/rim. We cannot count on AB to stop every dribble drive by wade or lebron or others on that team.
agreed.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: alajet on January 09, 2013, 07:35:06 AM
I say no, because within the current possibilities, realistically speaking, we aren't going to make it past the Heat and there is no need to pull the trigger in a rush for rebuilding.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: SchnellHanse on January 09, 2013, 07:37:09 AM
Boston Celtics is ranked 3nd last in blocks per game and die last in rebounding.

Big man needed   
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Bankshot on January 09, 2013, 08:05:55 AM
yes if it doesn't gut team, dalembert ?

(one bad sentence!)

This is what I was thinking.  There was some talk of him possibly getting bought out.  The Celtics don't have much luck with landing good players this way.  They seem to choose other teams most times.  But I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  We've had bad luck ever since the championship season.  Hopefully we are due for some good luck.

I really don't want to trade anyone we have right now.  We are going to need Green for his defense on Lebron, Melo, etc., we need Lee for his defense, which is especially good when paired with Bradley.  I don't even have to explain why I don't want to trade Sully or Bradley, and we will need Terry in the playoffs for his 3 point shot and clutchness.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 09, 2013, 08:22:36 AM
Boston Celtics is ranked 3nd last in blocks per game and die last in rebounding.

Big man needed

we really need a guy who can block wade and lebrons dribble drives. that would be sweet. talk about a rim protector. I wish Fabulous Fab melo was ready. I think he will be a great shot blocker for us in the future.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Donoghus on January 09, 2013, 08:30:08 AM
Not necessarily a trade but the team will need to make a move for a competent big man whether its through trade, buyouts, whatever. 

They do need something a little bit more than what they currently have.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: PhoSita on January 09, 2013, 09:13:47 AM
Boston Celtics is ranked 3nd last in blocks per game and die last in rebounding.

Big man needed

The lack of shot-blocking definitely bothers me.

We're pretty good in defensive rebounding, though, and the offensive rebounding has looked better lately.  But we definitely need a starting-quality big with real size to put next to KG.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: OmarSekou on January 09, 2013, 10:21:19 AM
Yes, to help take the load off KG.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: PhoSita on January 09, 2013, 10:26:10 AM
Not necessarily a trade but the team will need to make a move for a competent big man whether its through trade, buyouts, whatever. 

They do need something a little bit more than what they currently have.

Bare minimum they need to make a move for a guy like Sam Dalembert or Timofey Mozgov.  Somebody with real size, a plus rebounder, and the ability to block and / or alter shots at the rim for a solid 15-20 minutes a night.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 09, 2013, 10:32:39 AM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat.

While the Celtics had Bradley injured, Ray Allen playing on crutches...

Well we beat the heat with Bosh. Also Bosh didn't really pull KG out. KG let a terrible 3 point shooter take 3's and Bosh pulled a horseshoe out of his butt.

But apparently 100 times out of 100a times heat will win haha. Didn't realize it was that simple
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: CFAN38 on January 09, 2013, 10:35:37 AM
Yes, because we can not survive defensively in the playoffs with Bass and Sully on the court together. Need to make a minor trade for a big with length on the bench. (Wilcox is not the answer)
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: xmuscularghandix on January 09, 2013, 10:38:21 AM
Yes, because we can not survive defensively in the playoffs with Bass and Sully on the court together. Need to make a minor trade for a big with length on the bench. (Wilcox is not the answer)

Exactly. I think Bass needs to be packaged with somebody else to bring back a decent big man to play behind KG at center. I like what Collins brings but I'd REALLY prefer an upgrade come playoffs. Also give Bass' minutes at PF to Wilcox and start Sully.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Snakehead on January 09, 2013, 10:48:37 AM
I'd like another big but the team is just starting to look good.  It'd be a shame to trade now.

I really think Birdman was/is the answer.  Seems like he may be signing in Miami though, which is unfortunate.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: wdleehi on January 09, 2013, 08:16:38 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat.

While the Celtics had Bradley injured, Ray Allen playing on crutches...

Well we beat the heat with Bosh. Also Bosh didn't really pull KG out. KG let a terrible 3 point shooter take 3's and Bosh pulled a horseshoe out of his butt.

But apparently 100 times out of 100a times heat will win haha. Didn't realize it was that simple



No, just 4 times in a 7 game series.  No where did I say "the Heat are going to just sweep"


Bosh pulled KG out allowing the game to open up for Lebron and Wade.


Celtics need another big man that can defend the paint.  And it would be nice to have one that can post up on the inside. 



And for all the "Ray was out, Pierce was hurt" 


Wade was also hurt. 


And yes, the Celtics beat them his first game back playing 14 minutes.


For the Celtics to have the best chance to beat the heat in the playoffs and win a title, they need another legitimate big man.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Mazingerz on January 09, 2013, 08:27:09 PM
Im big and Im a man does that make me legit  ;D
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: diconzo on January 09, 2013, 08:32:17 PM
If we do end up making a trade, which I'm guessing will include Bass, his jumpshot needs to be replaced. It's the one thing Sully doesn't bring to the table (yet) that Bass does. Rebounding/Rim Protection is important, but if we make a deal I want that big to be able to knock down a 10 footer consistently.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 09, 2013, 10:49:14 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.
We can predict the future now?!? lol


No.  We saw what the Heat could do last year when healthy.  No Bosh, Celtics were a threat.  With Bosh, KG gets pulled from the lane, Celtics no longer a threat.

While the Celtics had Bradley injured, Ray Allen playing on crutches...

Well we beat the heat with Bosh. Also Bosh didn't really pull KG out. KG let a terrible 3 point shooter take 3's and Bosh pulled a horseshoe out of his butt.

But apparently 100 times out of 100a times heat will win haha. Didn't realize it was that simple



No, just 4 times in a 7 game series.  No where did I say "the Heat are going to just sweep"


Bosh pulled KG out allowing the game to open up for Lebron and Wade.


Celtics need another big man that can defend the paint.  And it would be nice to have one that can post up on the inside. 



And for all the "Ray was out, Pierce was hurt" 


Wade was also hurt. 


And yes, the Celtics beat them his first game back playing 14 minutes.


For the Celtics to have the best chance to beat the heat in the playoffs and win a title, they need another legitimate big man.

BINGO!
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: D.o.s. on January 09, 2013, 10:50:56 PM
I've liked our team all along this season, and now that they've started to gel I like them more and more each game.

I'm all for standing pat with our lineup and finding a waiver-wire frontcourt guy.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: ScottHow on January 09, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
Get Shaq on a treadmill now!
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 09, 2013, 10:55:26 PM
I've liked our team all along this season, and now that they've started to gel I like them more and more each game.

I'm all for standing pat with our lineup and finding a waiver-wire frontcourt guy.

That's where I'm at.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 09, 2013, 10:56:40 PM
Get Shaq on a treadmill now!

rofl
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 09, 2013, 10:59:10 PM
I've liked our team all along this season, and now that they've started to gel I like them more and more each game.

I'm all for standing pat with our lineup and finding a waiver-wire frontcourt guy.

cannot be a bum though. needs to at least do TWO things well. not great but well.

1) rebound
2) block shots

a plus would be able to post up and score down low
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: jdz101 on January 09, 2013, 11:05:01 PM
I've liked our team all along this season, and now that they've started to gel I like them more and more each game.

I'm all for standing pat with our lineup and finding a waiver-wire frontcourt guy.

cannot be a bum though. needs to at least do TWO things well. not great but well.

1) rebound
2) block shots

a plus would be able to post up and score down low

Honestly i would be more than happy with just defensive positioning and rebound.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 09, 2013, 11:13:36 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: pp34isthe1 on January 09, 2013, 11:17:17 PM
Get Shaq on a treadmill now!

His foots got to be better right?? Id be so happy of Doc Paul and KG could take out shaq and ask him to come back for playoffs to play 15-20mpg. I would freak out.

Going to go back to sleep now to keep dreaming.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: ScottHow on January 09, 2013, 11:29:27 PM
Man, how great would it be if Melo came up and filled our need. I know that there's no chance with how raw he is and Doc's ways with rookies, but his strengths are exactly what we need.

I mean Stiemsma played well and important minutes for us.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 09, 2013, 11:33:40 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.

I disagree, and so does Doc. We have 4 guys who merit 30 minutes a night for 96 minutes of play, and of the 4, Rondo is the only traditional pass-first capable player.

We're just getting by right now, I think we can do better.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BballTim on January 09, 2013, 11:35:35 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

  You're saying that KG and PP won't be on the team next year?
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BballTim on January 09, 2013, 11:39:36 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

  For some reason the Sully/Bass combination seems to be working a little bit better lately. I'm not a fan of that lineup but one thing that's gone somewhat unnoticed during the recent good play is the team playing decent ball with KG on the bench.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 09, 2013, 11:42:21 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.

I disagree, and so does Doc. We have 4 guys who merit 30 minutes a night for 96 minutes of play, and of the 4, Rondo is the only traditional pass-first capable player.

We're just getting by right now, I think we can do better.

So what you're saying is that we have very good players, and good depth. Four players for 2 positions. Sounds about right, plus a fifth in Barbosa. "Pass-first" is overrated. Everyone on our team, but maybe Bass and Barbosa, are very willing passers. So no worries on that regard. Our team is littered with ball-handlers in multiple positions, we're fine.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 09, 2013, 11:44:51 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

  You're saying that KG and PP won't be on the team next year?

I think it's a high probability. If I had to put money on it, KG retires, Pierce has one more year.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 09, 2013, 11:45:24 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

  For some reason the Sully/Bass combination seems to be working a little bit better lately. I'm not a fan of that lineup but one thing that's gone somewhat unnoticed during the recent good play is the team playing decent ball with KG on the bench.

It's been passable during some stretches. Against the Knicks, for example, they got a bit exposed when Chandler was on the floor.

Main problem for me is that Sully doesn't rotate as well as a 5 than a 4, and he over-helps, which often leaves him out of position, and doesn't recover as well as he does a PF.

But we'll see.

I'm not that concerned about a trade happening or not, I'm happy with our roster, and I'm actually very high on Wilcox despite not many being a fan of his around here, just can trust his health. I think he could be even more useful to us if we could give him some minutes at the 4 alongside KG. But roster needs demand he plays center.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: wahz on January 09, 2013, 11:46:44 PM
No NBA team is going to beat a healthy Heat team in 7 games playing small.

THANK YOU! my thoughts above were exactly the same.  :D


someone better tell doc as Im not sure he knows this
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: wahz on January 09, 2013, 11:54:15 PM
maybe its me, but I feel like the Heat have regressed this year, at least defensively(part of that is they play small/ Miller, Ray are sieves)...the Knicks KILLED them the two times they played.

I really don't see any team as "unbeatable" in the East...but thats just me.

trust me. if we had wade, Lebron and bosh with Allen, Miller and Battier plenty here would think it would be a cakewalk for us.

My personal pet peeve. This current Celtics team, with HOME COURT, beats the living heck out of Mia because of "fair" refereeing. But we won't try hard enough to get hc. Ray is worse than last year by the way. Just watch him, its getting worse and wose
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 09, 2013, 11:55:54 PM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.

I disagree, and so does Doc. We have 4 guys who merit 30 minutes a night for 96 minutes of play, and of the 4, Rondo is the only traditional pass-first capable player.

We're just getting by right now, I think we can do better.

So what you're saying is that we have very good players, and good depth. Four players for 2 positions. Sounds about right, plus a fifth in Barbosa. "Pass-first" is overrated. Everyone on our team, but maybe Bass and Barbosa, are very willing passers. So no worries on that regard. Our team is littered with ball-handlers in multiple positions, we're fine.

I'm saying we have 4 good players for two positions, Id rather have 3 and improve our frountcourt, and get a veteran backup 1 as a 9th or 10th man.

I want our roster to look like this:

Rondo/Terry/?
Bradley/Terry/Barbosa
Pierce/Green
Sullinger/KG/Wilcox
KG/Starting caliber 5/Wilcox

I think a trimmed down consistent rotation with the new big getting about 25 minutes a night makes us a better, more consistent team.

Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: j804 on January 10, 2013, 12:06:58 AM
No, we don't need a trade. An addition maybe a vet big is about it.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 10, 2013, 12:14:10 AM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.

I disagree, and so does Doc. We have 4 guys who merit 30 minutes a night for 96 minutes of play, and of the 4, Rondo is the only traditional pass-first capable player.

We're just getting by right now, I think we can do better.

So what you're saying is that we have very good players, and good depth. Four players for 2 positions. Sounds about right, plus a fifth in Barbosa. "Pass-first" is overrated. Everyone on our team, but maybe Bass and Barbosa, are very willing passers. So no worries on that regard. Our team is littered with ball-handlers in multiple positions, we're fine.

I'm saying we have 4 good players for two positions, Id rather have 3 and improve our frountcourt, and get a veteran backup 1 as a 9th or 10th man.

I want our roster to look like this:

Rondo/Terry/?
Bradley/Terry/Barbosa
Pierce/Green
Sullinger/KG/Wilcox
KG/Starting caliber 5/Wilcox

I think a trimmed down consistent rotation with the new big getting about 25 minutes a night makes us a better, more consistent team.

I don't think that makes us any better, you're hurting our perimeter defense too much, all for a potential "PG". A PG who has to have size if you're going to keep Terry around, else, we're going to be destroyed. What happens if Bradley gets injured? Then you're double screwed. We really are about as good as we can get with our guard guys, touching it will be a mistake. But if you need to touch it, the odd man out has to be Terry or Barbosa. The balance Lee provides for our roster will be much harder to replace, plus he's good fit with just about any guard.

The only move to make, if any, is try to turn Bass for a center. But I really don't see how weakening our guard rotation just to get a big or some PG, because we "need" a PG is acceptable. If you're getting some sort of superstar or potential great player, then that's one thing, but trading Lee just for the sake of getting a big, it's just bad value for me. Doubly so for this supposed need of a PG.

Since the beginning of the year, I've said the main culprits for our poor defense was a perimeter problem. With Bradley back, and Lee pressuring the ball the way he is once Bradley goes to the bench, and seeing the results we're getting, I think the point has been more than proven.

Go find a big if needed, but not at the expense of our guard rotation, in particular, those that bring the defense like Bradley and Lee, else you're solving one problem, while potentially creating a bigger one. And to consider that we have this group for the next 3 years, a group that should give us more often than not a very good advantage over other teams, then I hesitate even more with breaking them up. And when you consider that Lee and Bradley are expending so much energy defensively, guarding players full court, then less minutes are they way to go anyways the way I see it.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: diconzo on January 10, 2013, 12:15:25 AM
If we do make a trade, Melo has to stay. He screams DeAndre Jordan, Barbosa and Collins are salary throw ins, not Melo.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: LooseCannon on January 10, 2013, 12:17:50 AM
Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

Is the need for an upgrade on Bass or is the need for an upgrade on Wilcox/Collins so that Bass and Sullinger split time at the 4 and you get a big who can play with them when KG is resting?

Given how someone like Greg Smith has turned out for Houston, perhaps another D-Leaguer like Brian Butch or Henry Sims might be as good or better than a minimum salary veteran big.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: ejk3489 on January 10, 2013, 12:21:18 AM
maybe its me, but I feel like the Heat have regressed this year, at least defensively(part of that is they play small/ Miller, Ray are sieves)...the Knicks KILLED them the two times they played.

I really don't see any team as "unbeatable" in the East...but thats just me.

I agree, I'm much more afraid of the teams out West (Clippers/OKC) than I am of Miami. I think the quality of championship contender teams in our conference this season is pretty weak too...at the very least they aren't any better. Of the playoff teams last season, only New York has significantly improved. Atlanta/Indiana/Chicago(without Rose) are the same and Orlando/Philly are worse.

I think a trade would be helpful, especially for a center/big man, but not necessary. Our playoff rotation that almost went to the Finals and beat the Heat was essentially our starting 5 of Rondo/KG/Pierce/Allen/Bass and only two bench players in Pietrus/Dooling, with occasional contributions from Marquis and Stiemsma. No Bradley, no Green, no Wilcox. That's pretty awful.

Our current rotation of Rondo/Bradley/Pierce/Sully/KG with Terry/Lee/Green/Bass off the bench *should* be able to at least compete with Miami...on paper anyways.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Change on January 10, 2013, 12:21:48 AM
Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

Is the need for an upgrade on Bass or is the need for an upgrade on Wilcox/Collins so that Bass and Sullinger split time at the 4 and you get a big who can play with them when KG is resting?

Given how someone like Greg Smith has turned out for Houston, perhaps another D-Leaguer like Brian Butch or Henry Sims might be as good or better than a minimum salary veteran big.

I hear Fab Melo is beasting in the Dleague. Maybe Celtics can offer 10day deal and see what he can do.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 10, 2013, 12:28:15 AM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.

I disagree, and so does Doc. We have 4 guys who merit 30 minutes a night for 96 minutes of play, and of the 4, Rondo is the only traditional pass-first capable player.

We're just getting by right now, I think we can do better.

So what you're saying is that we have very good players, and good depth. Four players for 2 positions. Sounds about right, plus a fifth in Barbosa. "Pass-first" is overrated. Everyone on our team, but maybe Bass and Barbosa, are very willing passers. So no worries on that regard. Our team is littered with ball-handlers in multiple positions, we're fine.

I'm saying we have 4 good players for two positions, Id rather have 3 and improve our frountcourt, and get a veteran backup 1 as a 9th or 10th man.

I want our roster to look like this:

Rondo/Terry/?
Bradley/Terry/Barbosa
Pierce/Green
Sullinger/KG/Wilcox
KG/Starting caliber 5/Wilcox

I think a trimmed down consistent rotation with the new big getting about 25 minutes a night makes us a better, more consistent team.

I don't think that makes us any better, you're hurting our perimeter defense too much, all for a potential "PG". A PG who has to have size if you're going to keep Terry around, else, we're going to be destroyed. What happens if Bradley gets injured? Then you're double screwed. We really are about as good as we can get with our guard guys, touching it will be a mistake. But if you need to touch it, the odd man out has to be Terry or Barbosa. The balance Lee provides for our roster will be much harder to replace, plus he's good fit with just about any guard.

The only move to make, if any, is try to turn Bass for a center. But I really don't see how weakening our guard rotation just to get a big or some PG, because we "need" a PG is acceptable. If you're getting some sort of superstar or potential great player, then that's one thing, but trading Lee just for the sake of getting a big, it's just bad value for me. Doubly so for this supposed need of a PG.

Since the beginning of the year, I've said the main culprits for our poor defense was a perimeter problem. With Bradley back, and Lee pressuring the ball the way he is once Bradley goes to the bench, and seeing the results we're getting, I think the point has been more than proven.

Go find a big if needed, but not at the expense of our guard rotation, in particular, those that bring the defense like Bradley and Lee, else you're solving one problem, while potentially creating a bigger one. And to consider that we have this group for the next 3 years, a group that should give us more often than not a very good advantage over other teams, then I hesitate even more with breaking them up.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree for one point:

If Bradley is injured, we're screwed anyways. I don't think we can win the conference, let alone multiple playoff series without him, for the perimeter defense you mention. So that being the case, why try and prevent a disaster with a safeguard that won't mitigate it? Either Bradley is playing, and we're hopefully winning, or he's not, and we're mediocre.

I'm not saying we have to make a trade, but Id be amenable to one involving Bass and Lee that brings us back a good 5 and a servicable 1.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 10, 2013, 12:29:01 AM
Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

Is the need for an upgrade on Bass or is the need for an upgrade on Wilcox/Collins so that Bass and Sullinger split time at the 4 and you get a big who can play with them when KG is resting?

Given how someone like Greg Smith has turned out for Houston, perhaps another D-Leaguer like Brian Butch or Henry Sims might be as good or better than a minimum salary veteran big.

As I've mentioned previously, I'm high on Wilcox, so I got no problem with Wilcox filling that role. Personally I like Wilcox more than Bass anyways with this roster, though I don't think many agree with me. So if you can turn Bass in to a center, then you can use Wilcox as a 4, where he's at his best, and you can use him alongside KG, alongside Sully, and alongside this new center as situations allow.

Consider, he's only played about 5 minutes total with KG... that's a travesty, they showed the previous year that they can provide some very good defensive units together. And Wilcox has much better hands than Bass, so a better fit for Rondo's passes, and Pierce has a knack for finding him besides the rim. Out of necessity, he's simply had to fill a different role for us this year.

So, I don't see Wilcox as a problem that needs upgrading. He's a valuable player to have because he can fill in as needed at both positions. And we have 2 open roster spots.

And the way we're playing right now, I think he'll provide the boost many are looking for anyways. I'd like to see him rebound better though, but I think he's solid otherwise.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 10, 2013, 12:41:18 AM
Why I want a trade: We're 18-17, two of our top 3 players are likely gone next year, and we have redundancies at the 2 and 4, and big holes at the 1 and 5.

The trade I want is to turn some of those redundancies into strengths and turn our squad into a more balanced team, specifically by acquiring a competent veteran backup point and starting caliber 5.

Our guard rotation is perfect as is, don't touch it. Our "hole" at the one has been completely overstated, as has been the redundancy at the 2.

Now the 4 is another matter because Bass and Sully have shown that they can't play together, so if you can turn Bass into a big who can play with Sully, KG, and Wilcox, then the better.

It will just improves just about everyone in our big-men rotation.

But as for our guards, Lee plays well with Bradley, and plays well with Terry. When Bradley is off the floor, he picks up the defensive slack. There's really little redundancy there, all of them are more than capable ball-handlers, as it's been shown time and time again throughout the season. Then you have Barbosa eating the bench, who's also more than capable of delivering when needed as a PG.

So no, we don't need a back-up PG. Our guards are fine as is. The only combination I'm iffy about is Terry with Rondo, but it seems like they've been figuring it out a bit better as of late.

I disagree, and so does Doc. We have 4 guys who merit 30 minutes a night for 96 minutes of play, and of the 4, Rondo is the only traditional pass-first capable player.

We're just getting by right now, I think we can do better.

So what you're saying is that we have very good players, and good depth. Four players for 2 positions. Sounds about right, plus a fifth in Barbosa. "Pass-first" is overrated. Everyone on our team, but maybe Bass and Barbosa, are very willing passers. So no worries on that regard. Our team is littered with ball-handlers in multiple positions, we're fine.

I'm saying we have 4 good players for two positions, Id rather have 3 and improve our frountcourt, and get a veteran backup 1 as a 9th or 10th man.

I want our roster to look like this:

Rondo/Terry/?
Bradley/Terry/Barbosa
Pierce/Green
Sullinger/KG/Wilcox
KG/Starting caliber 5/Wilcox

I think a trimmed down consistent rotation with the new big getting about 25 minutes a night makes us a better, more consistent team.

I don't think that makes us any better, you're hurting our perimeter defense too much, all for a potential "PG". A PG who has to have size if you're going to keep Terry around, else, we're going to be destroyed. What happens if Bradley gets injured? Then you're double screwed. We really are about as good as we can get with our guard guys, touching it will be a mistake. But if you need to touch it, the odd man out has to be Terry or Barbosa. The balance Lee provides for our roster will be much harder to replace, plus he's good fit with just about any guard.

The only move to make, if any, is try to turn Bass for a center. But I really don't see how weakening our guard rotation just to get a big or some PG, because we "need" a PG is acceptable. If you're getting some sort of superstar or potential great player, then that's one thing, but trading Lee just for the sake of getting a big, it's just bad value for me. Doubly so for this supposed need of a PG.

Since the beginning of the year, I've said the main culprits for our poor defense was a perimeter problem. With Bradley back, and Lee pressuring the ball the way he is once Bradley goes to the bench, and seeing the results we're getting, I think the point has been more than proven.

Go find a big if needed, but not at the expense of our guard rotation, in particular, those that bring the defense like Bradley and Lee, else you're solving one problem, while potentially creating a bigger one. And to consider that we have this group for the next 3 years, a group that should give us more often than not a very good advantage over other teams, then I hesitate even more with breaking them up.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree for one point:

If Bradley is injured, we're screwed anyways. I don't think we can win the conference, let alone multiple playoff series without him, for the perimeter defense you mention. So that being the case, why try and prevent a disaster with a safeguard that won't mitigate it? Either Bradley is playing, and we're hopefully winning, or he's not, and we're mediocre.

I'm not saying we have to make a trade, but Id be amenable to one involving Bass and Lee that brings us back a good 5 and a servicable 1.

Despite how much Bradley's presence has lifted the club since his return, if we lose him, I don't think it will be the end of the world. Even if we don't lose Bradley in your scenario, you'd still be faced with stretches of poor perimeter defense, it'll be inevitable and without real alternatives, something that has been our main strength in this past 4 or so games, and Lee has been a big part of that with no letdown after Bradley goes to the bench. More important than anything, it's the perimeter defense which is crucial to get out of the East.

I'm not seeing a scenario where you replace Lee with a PG, while having Barbosa and Terry on your team, and it being an upgrade to your rotation. I'd really need you to give me a useful example because I don't see it.

And I'm struggling to see what has led you to believe that we need a back-up PG. I think our play has for two months now shown that we don't need one.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: diconzo on January 10, 2013, 12:46:53 AM
What about?

BOS sends: Brandon Bass, CLE 2013 2nd, BOS 2013 1st, BOS 2014 2nd
BOS receives: Dalembert

MIL sends: Dalembert
MIL receives: Omri Casspi, CJ Miles, CLE 2013 2nd

CLE sends: Omri Casspi, CJ Miles
CLE receives: Brandon Bass, BOS 2013 1st, BOS 2014 2nd

After Jan. 15th it wouldn't be a ridiculous trade. We lose our first rounder this year, but I feel like our future draft picks are more valuable. This year we're hoping to be around 22-26, that's definitely expendable if we can add a big like Dalembert.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 10, 2013, 12:47:47 AM
I'm thinking a trade like this:

Boston trades: Courtney Lee, Brandon Bass, 2013 1st
Milwaukee Trade: Beno Udrih, Sam Dalembert

Rids us of 13 million next season, gives us a big combo guard who trends more towards the 1 than 2, and gives us a big rim protector, who can hit a 10ft jumper, who rebounds, and is only on a 1 yr contract.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: j804 on January 10, 2013, 01:00:54 AM
I'm thinking a trade like this:

Boston trades: Courtney Lee, Brandon Bass, 2013 1st
Milwaukee Trade: Beno Udrih, Sam Dalembert

Rids us of 13 million next season, gives us a big combo guard who trends more towards the 1 than 2, and gives us a big rim protector, who can hit a 10ft jumper, who rebounds, and is only on a 1 yr contract.
are people really thinking Dalembert is going to protect the rim against James or Wade and other guys we see in the playoffs, rather have Lee/Bradley's feisty defensive duo backcourt and keep Bass then give them up for Samuel Dalembert. It is what's our strength and why we're playing the best defense in the league through these handful of games.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 10, 2013, 01:04:24 AM
I'm thinking a trade like this:

Boston trades: Courtney Lee, Brandon Bass, 2013 1st
Milwaukee Trade: Beno Udrih, Sam Dalembert

Rids us of 13 million next season, gives us a big combo guard who trends more towards the 1 than 2, and gives us a big rim protector, who can hit a 10ft jumper, who rebounds, and is only on a 1 yr contract.

Interesting, but I think it potentially weakens us too much next couple of years unnecessarily, and Beno's defense is too questionable for me, with the type of roster we have.

I personally pass on this. "Rids us of 13 million next season" I don't see as a good thing.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 10, 2013, 01:09:11 AM
I'm thinking a trade like this:

Boston trades: Courtney Lee, Brandon Bass, 2013 1st
Milwaukee Trade: Beno Udrih, Sam Dalembert

Rids us of 13 million next season, gives us a big combo guard who trends more towards the 1 than 2, and gives us a big rim protector, who can hit a 10ft jumper, who rebounds, and is only on a 1 yr contract.

Interesting, but I think it potentially weakens us too much next couple of years unnecessarily, and Beno's defense is too questionable for me, with the type of roster we have.

I personally pass on this. "Rids us of 13 million next season" I don't see as a good thing.

Interesting thing about Udrih, his defensive stats last season mark him as one of the best defenders in the league. Of course, this is a bit of an outlier, but it bears mentioning.

The thing I like about him is that you can play him next to Terry. He can defend a lot of 2s adaquately, playing the role of Jason Kidd, if less efficiently. He can also play next to Bradley.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: KGs Knee on January 10, 2013, 01:12:32 AM
The more I see how our 4 guard rotation has been playing since Bradley's return, i'm beginning to think trading any of them may be the wrong move.

Bass is easily the most expendable.  I've said this since the moment the C's re-singed him (I wanted a S&T).  Bass doesn't have very much value though.  About the best we can do is get a backup center and possibly an additional bench player.

So long as the player returning s 7ft and capable, I'd pull the trigger.

Still would love to get an all-star, but we'd have to trade more parts.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: j804 on January 10, 2013, 01:19:44 AM
The more I see how our 4 guard rotation has been playing since Bradley's return, i'm beginning to think trading any of them may be the wrong move.

Bass is easily the most expendable.  I've said this since the moment the C's re-singed him (I wanted a S&T).  Bass doesn't have very much value though.  About the best we can do is get a backup center and possibly an additional bench player.

So long as the player returning s 7ft and capable, I'd pull the trigger.

Still would love to get an all-star, but we'd have to trade more parts.
If we trade Bass then whos the starter? Sully? He's better where he's at now and doing what he's doing.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: KGs Knee on January 10, 2013, 01:34:19 AM
Hopefully.....the big we trade for is capable enough to start next to KG, thus allowing Sully to come off the bench.

Sully could get a lions share of minutes, and Wilcox is still around to fill the void as well.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: mctyson on January 10, 2013, 06:39:23 AM
If we need to trade Courtney Lee for Dalembert to win the Eastern Conference....we are not winning the Eastern Conference.
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Greenbean on January 10, 2013, 07:01:51 AM
It depends....if we win the next game then no...if we lose then trade everyone. ;D
Title: Re: Simple question, do we need to make a trade? Why? Why not?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 10, 2013, 07:49:40 AM
I think in the long run that we won't do it but Sully for DMC looks on more solid ground after last's game.   I do not think it would happen and Sully is a good soldier as opposed to DMC who is a headcase.   But I am sure his trade value just went up some.