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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: gar on January 08, 2013, 10:39:04 AM

Title: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: gar on January 08, 2013, 10:39:04 AM
Have often felt that Rondo's D is over rated and has gotten worse this year as the team depends more on his offense. Last night showed what this team could be with Bradley, Lee and Green all playing good D. When Wilcox comes back they will be ready for a run.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Edgar on January 08, 2013, 10:39:40 AM
No its not.
Because our guard rotation D is beter with rondo than with Terry
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 08, 2013, 10:42:22 AM
No. Stop.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Chris on January 08, 2013, 10:45:07 AM
I think with Bradley in there, it makes Rondo a MUCH better defensive player, and as they settle in, it will be really good for the team.

Rondo is at his best when he can just be a team defender.  He isn't a great one on one guy.  Just doesn't fight through picks, or stay in front of his man well enough.  But, get him in the team defense, where he can read the play, use his BBIQ and quickness to get in passing lanes, cause havoc with his hands, and hit the glass, and suddenly he is a monster.

With Bradley covering the other teams ball handler, it frees up Rondo to do that, and it makes everyone better, because the other team never knows when Rondo is sneaking up on them to trap them or steal the ball. 
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 08, 2013, 10:47:21 AM
There's some truth to it.

He and Bradley together are special though, but if Rondo plays like the first half of that Atlanta game, then you get in trouble, but if he can constantly give you what he showed in the second half, then you've got some spectacular defense.

Terry and Rondo together is not good.

Lee with Terry are good. Lee and Bradley by what I saw yesterday was completely awesome.

Rondo and Lee has been a bit hit or miss, but they've had some strong performances defensively together.

You never know what Rondo is going to show up game to game, and that's always a concern in my opinion.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: AshyLarry on January 08, 2013, 10:47:31 AM
I think with Bradley in there, it makes Rondo a MUCH better defensive player, and as they settle in, it will be really good for the team.

Rondo is at his best when he can just be a team defender.  He isn't a great one on one guy.  Just doesn't fight through picks, or stay in front of his man well enough.  But, get him in the team defense, where he can read the play, use his BBIQ and quickness to get in passing lanes, cause havoc with his hands, and hit the glass, and suddenly he is a monster.

With Bradley covering the other teams ball handler, it frees up Rondo to do that, and it makes everyone better, because the other team never knows when Rondo is sneaking up on them to trap them or steal the ball.

So much this. Tp.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: eugen on January 08, 2013, 10:51:31 AM
Cs playing better without Rondo? This is my impression after last game yesterday in MSG Vs NYK. I saw Cs playing much faster, maximum determination, better sharing ball, less turnovers, and more teamwork job done. Mostly of the time Rondo slows down the offensive actions. Cs team plays faster without Rondo, and AB and Sullinger are more aggressive without Rondo on the floor.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Interceptor on January 08, 2013, 11:19:27 AM
If it's not better without Rondo, it's certainly no worse.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: dark_lord on January 08, 2013, 11:24:02 AM
its not that they are better WITHOUT rondo...they are just better WITH bradley.  his hustle and heart is infectious.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 08, 2013, 11:24:47 AM
Rondo is one of the most frustating Celtics ever. When he runs, the team moves great, when he walks the ball up court , I want him out of the game. He is a brickster and shouldn't be in the game the last 2 minutes.

His inabilitiy to be consistant from game to game , or even during a game is perplexing.

One moment he is a hero and next drags down court, allowing the defense to set up. This an advantage to the defense. Tommy H. alluded to this several time, by saying he likes the way AB get s the ball down court and starts the offense running pronto. 

Rondo makes one highlight reel play , then doesn't focus and tosses the ball away for several stupid turnovers.

This would drive me nuts as a coach and GM. This consistancy is why CP3 the superior product.

 If I could get Cousins for Rondo , I trade him in a sec. Up grade for Star Center would outweight the downgrade at guard , till a new PG could be found.

Rondo makes the team better when he is not lazy , focused and keeping his cool .

Sometimess I wonder If Rondo respects Doc and listens to what he says... ::)
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 08, 2013, 11:37:03 AM
he saves his energy for the playoffs. he does a lot more than cp3 anyways. cp3 wishes he could rebound like rondo.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 08, 2013, 11:53:17 AM
he saves his energy for the playoffs. he does a lot more than cp3 anyways. cp3 wishes he could rebound like rondo.

lol........a PG should not have to rebound anyway like rondo does.

saving your energy is useless if you do not make the playoffs
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 08, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
he saves his energy for the playoffs. he does a lot more than cp3 anyways. cp3 wishes he could rebound like rondo.

lol........a PG should not have to rebound anyway like rondo does.

saving your energy is useless if you do not make the playoffs

I'm guessing we'll make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 08, 2013, 12:03:40 PM
Uh no? But it's undeniable were better defensively with Bradley
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: gar on January 08, 2013, 12:14:46 PM
I think with Bradley in there, it makes Rondo a MUCH better defensive player, and as they settle in, it will be really good for the team.

Rondo is at his best when he can just be a team defender.  He isn't a great one on one guy.  Just doesn't fight through picks, or stay in front of his man well enough.  But, get him in the team defense, where he can read the play, use his BBIQ and quickness to get in passing lanes, cause havoc with his hands, and hit the glass, and suddenly he is a monster.

With Bradley covering the other teams ball handler, it frees up Rondo to do that, and it makes everyone better, because the other team never knows when Rondo is sneaking up on them to trap them or steal the ball.

Great point. Without Bradley and without people behind him to cover when he gambles (and I still think he gambles too much) his defense made our defense look bad. With Bradley and with bigs that have the rotations down should see things start to click. Even Collins is starting to get it, but he is very uncomfortable away from the basket.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: sdceltsfan on January 08, 2013, 12:14:56 PM
Have often felt that Rondo's D is over rated and has gotten worse this year as the team depends more on his offense. Last night showed what this team could be with Bradley, Lee and Green all playing good D. When Wilcox comes back they will be ready for a run.


 ::) Yes, when Chris Wilcox returns, this team is over the top FOR SURE....

Just hand us the banner! WILCOX IS IN THA HOOOOOOUSE!!!
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 08, 2013, 12:16:44 PM
Have often felt that Rondo's D is over rated and has gotten worse this year as the team depends more on his offense. Last night showed what this team could be with Bradley, Lee and Green all playing good D. When Wilcox comes back they will be ready for a run.


 ::) Yes, when Chris Wilcox returns, this team is over the top FOR SURE....

Just hand us the banner! WILCOX IS IN THA HOOOOOOUSE!!!

Anyone know a timetable on Wilcox's return?
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: sdceltsfan on January 08, 2013, 12:22:43 PM
Have any of you inept Rondo bashers stopped to think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, we won the game because everyone else on the team all had good games, all at the same time???

I know Rondo is the PG and all, but are we blaming him for Lee/Green/Terry's inconsistency throughout the season?

Did anyone also notice that Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks best player, had a noticeably bad game, shooting 6 for 26???

NEWSFLASH

We won the game by 6 points. We did not dominate the Knicks. Carmelo just as much lost the game for his team by hogging the ball, as we won the game by finally having everyone make their shots.

Rondo has little to do with other guys making their shots......shot selection sure, but execution? Give me a break.

All Rondo HATERS. Do yourselves a favor and watch another sport. Your basketball "analysis" is a little off the mark, to say the least.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: nostar on January 08, 2013, 12:23:55 PM
This is silly. If you guys think that Pierce can play like he did last night every game then that is what we'll look like without Rondo. Pierce was point-forward, the high scorer and the go to guy down the stretch. Really every single player on our team stepped up because Rondo was out. Neither of those things will happen every night so suggesting that Rondo is not vital to this team's success is just overreaction.

It's not like Anthony was setting the world on fire with his 26% shooting and 3 rebounds.

Last night after the game I was making bets with my brother over how many "C's are better without Rondo" threads would crop up. Just remember this:

-Every player except Jet played at or above their averages for us last night.
-Carmello had an absolutely awful night.
-They are without Felton/Shumpert
-We only won by 6.

Yeah I'm keeping Rondo.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: Interceptor on January 08, 2013, 12:26:38 PM
Have any of you inept Rondo bashers
:-\

Quote
Did anyone also notice that Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks best player, had a noticeably bad game, shooting 6 for 26???
Isn't this partially a reflection of good D on Carmelo? He was not taking wide-open shots for the most part. Forcing him to chuck up bad shots is part of the gameplan.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: sdceltsfan on January 08, 2013, 12:35:54 PM
Have any of you inept Rondo bashers
:-\

Quote
Did anyone also notice that Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks best player, had a noticeably bad game, shooting 6 for 26???
Isn't this partially a reflection of good D on Carmelo? He was not taking wide-open shots for the most part. Forcing him to chuck up bad shots is part of the gameplan.


So clearly, you were not watching the same game.....you know the one last night, where Carmelo literally dribbled around with the ball with his head down, hardly ever passed in the second half at all, and threw up a volume of shots?

Pretty sure our D had nothing to do with that, other than the psychological efforts KG put out......not saying our D was horrible or even bad. But let's be real here. Did you watch the game? How many possessions did Carmelo literally bring the ball up himself and jack up a shot, or as soon as the ball was passed to him, he jacked up a shot?

No defense can force a player to shoot that many bad shots in a row. A player can decide to play like an idiot though. Again 6 for 26.....that is extremely poor for Carmelo Anthony.
Title: Re: Is Celtics D better without Rondo?
Post by: D Dub on January 08, 2013, 12:38:33 PM
jeesh guys, 4 different hate-on-Rondo threads today?

a little patience is in order methinks.  this team is just getting warmed up... 

chemistry is there, KG is healthy, playing like a stud.  Melo is developing nicely for the Steamer role.  Sully crushing the BigBaby/LPowe role.  AB is back, better than ever.  IMO the only thing holding us back from another ECF run is 3pt shooting.