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Other Discussions => Off Topic => Current Events / Political Discussion => Topic started by: Change on January 08, 2013, 12:29:43 AM

Title: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Change on January 08, 2013, 12:29:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWQPZ-taYBs.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 08, 2013, 12:42:13 AM


Alex Jones is (really) crazy.


Piers Morgans statistic is kinda useless to me though. Okay there this big difference in gun deaths. Besides the very obvious population difference, why doesn't he reference if other crime went up relative to decrease in firearm deaths.

Also, I think using recent mass shootings as the impetus of super-strict gun laws is absolutely stupid, and kind of selfish. Far less people (a minuscule amount) are killed in that fashion than in more intent driven murders (gang, drug related stuff).
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: pp34isthe1 on January 08, 2013, 12:52:46 AM
Wow what a tool. Im at a loss for words on this, I cant believe Piers let him go the whole show. Thanks for posting, it made me laugh.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 08, 2013, 01:00:37 AM
Alex jones is nuts. Just absolutely crazy. Or, at least he appeared so there.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: barefacedmonk on January 08, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
MASS MURDER PILLS!!

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rY0CJheAaRM/S83Xg5h-cXI/AAAAAAAABbo/fuofWodxws8/s1600/lolcat-funny-picture-found-pills-ate-eat.jpg)
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 08, 2013, 01:18:06 AM
MASS MURDER PILLS!!

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rY0CJheAaRM/S83Xg5h-cXI/AAAAAAAABbo/fuofWodxws8/s1600/lolcat-funny-picture-found-pills-ate-eat.jpg)

LOL

Though I think a fear of the massive amounts of psychologically altering drugs, starting at a young age, does defiantly makes me not completely discount this angle.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: action781 on January 08, 2013, 01:20:00 AM
What a lunatic.


Piers Morgans statistic is kinda useless to me though. Okay there this big difference in gun deaths. Besides the very obvious population difference, why doesn't he reference if other crime went up relative to decrease in firearm deaths.
As for this point, I wouldn't say its "kinda useless" but maybe that it doesn't tell the whole story.  Whether or not other crime goes up or not, deaths is a much bigger deal than burglary.  I'd rather have 200,000 burglaries than 30,000 murders.  No?  Unfortunately, it's hard to tell whether or not Piers was going to reference any other crime or where he was going with any of this because Piers never got to even begin this debate he was planning on having.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on January 08, 2013, 01:22:32 AM
Alex Jones is not to be taken seriously. Sadly many swear by his words.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 08, 2013, 01:30:22 AM
What a lunatic.


Piers Morgans statistic is kinda useless to me though. Okay there this big difference in gun deaths. Besides the very obvious population difference, why doesn't he reference if other crime went up relative to decrease in firearm deaths.
As for this point, I wouldn't say its "kinda useless" but maybe that it doesn't tell the whole story.  Whether or not other crime goes up or not, deaths is a much bigger deal than burglary.  I'd rather have 200,000 burglaries than 30,000 murders.  No?  Unfortunately, it's hard to tell whether or not Piers was going to reference any other crime or where he was going with any of this because Piers never got to even begin this debate he was planning on having.


Never disagreed about Alex's lack of manners (or grace or tact or general sanity for that matter)

I guess I find it "kinda useless" precisely because it "doesn't tell the whole story". Tough to prove a point without looking at the whole story.

Though I don't know many debates where one of the debates asked all the questions, so I don't know why Piers was imply that this would be a debate.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 03:57:05 AM
Well... Jones will add to his niche following, but I think he turns off the majority of classical liberals like myself with his batpoop crazy antics. Stop yelling, man.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: ACF on January 08, 2013, 06:51:57 AM
Wow what a tool. Im at a loss for words on this, I cant believe Piers let him go the whole show. Thanks for posting, it made me laugh.

Piers probably just wanted to show us how crazy Jones is. Mission accomplished.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 08, 2013, 01:07:06 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D.o.s. on January 08, 2013, 02:43:53 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 08, 2013, 04:43:13 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: kozlodoev on January 08, 2013, 04:51:29 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 08, 2013, 05:02:56 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: kozlodoev on January 08, 2013, 05:19:03 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 08, 2013, 05:44:42 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.

I disagree with most of Ron Paul's policy ideas but I don't think he's crazy, I just think he's wrong.  What is the connection between Paul and Jones?   

Is the clip typical of Jones' behavior?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: kozlodoev on January 08, 2013, 05:54:34 PM
I disagree with most of Ron Paul's policy ideas but I don't think he's crazy, I just think he's wrong.  What is the connection between Paul and Jones?   
"Wrong" is when Mitt Romney says tax cuts finance themselves. Calling MLK day "hate whitey day" is not exactly in the same ballpark (that's before we bring in hypodermic needles, superhighways, and other stuff that shouldn't make sense to anyone with an ounce of sanity).
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 08, 2013, 05:55:12 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.

Ron Paul is honest. He speaks to people as if they are intelligent, and able to understand complex ideas. Not every intelligent person agrees with those ideas, and that's fair. To call him crazy is doing a great dis justice to a man who, when it comes to protecting personal liberty and rejecting the progressive/neo-con agenda that is pervasive in our federal government, he has stood alone many times.

Regardless of how you feel about him, he energized many from my generation and really helped lay down a great political foundation to stand on. Because of Ron Paul many young people such as myself have become very interested in getting involved in politics, and fighting for the cause of liberty.


You seem like the type of guy who knows too much to change his mind, so I will be done here.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 08, 2013, 06:02:59 PM
I disagree with most of Ron Paul's policy ideas but I don't think he's crazy, I just think he's wrong.  What is the connection between Paul and Jones?   
"Wrong" is when Mitt Romney says tax cuts finance themselves. Calling MLK day "hate whitey day" is not exactly in the same ballpark (that's before we bring in hypodermic needles, superhighways, and other stuff that shouldn't make sense to anyone with an ounce of sanity).

I'd need to see the context of the seemingly abhorant MLK comment, but as for other zany ideas, I think he thinks differently about how societal problems will be solved.  I think he's almost always wrong, though I do think he is intelligent and usually has a logic and ideological frame that supports his suggestions.  I have heard nutty sounding ideas from lots of folks who I wouldn't classify as 'crazy'.  But I am the last person to be defending Ron Paul, I am very seriously against most of his policy ideas and his son's.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 06:22:17 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php


Ah... the newsletters. The simplest way to expose yourself as knowing nothing of Ron Paul and his message.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.

I disagree with most of Ron Paul's policy ideas but I don't think he's crazy, I just think he's wrong.  What is the connection between Paul and Jones?   

Is the clip typical of Jones' behavior?

There is no connection. Roy H. likes to link the two because Paul has agreed (like other politicians) to a couple radio interviews. It also should be noted that Jones is a big Paul supporter.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: kozlodoev on January 08, 2013, 06:30:29 PM
Ah... the newsletters. The simplest way to expose yourself as knowing nothing of Ron Paul and his message.
What does the supposed "Ron Paul message" have to do with the fact that he's crazy?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 06:35:29 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.

Ron Paul is honest. He speaks to people as if they are intelligent, and able to understand complex ideas. Not every intelligent person agrees with those ideas, and that's fair. To call him crazy is doing a great dis justice to a man who, when it comes to protecting personal liberty and rejecting the progressive/neo-con agenda that is pervasive in our federal government, he has stood alone many times.

Regardless of how you feel about him, he energized many from my generation and really helped lay down a great political foundation to stand on. Because of Ron Paul many young people such as myself have become very interested in getting involved in politics, and fighting for the cause of liberty.


You seem like the type of guy who knows too much to change his mind, so I will be done here.

kozlodoev is calling him crazy because (even despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary), he believes Paul wrote racist newsletters. He’s not even talking about philosophy or policy.

Paul made the mistake (which he has admitted to) of not keeping a close enough eye on his newsletters while he was delivering babies (and many little black babies at that).

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: kozlodoev on January 08, 2013, 06:51:35 PM
Ron Paul is honest. He speaks to people as if they are intelligent, and able to understand complex ideas. Not every intelligent person agrees with those ideas, and that's fair. To call him crazy is doing a great dis justice to a man who, when it comes to protecting personal liberty and rejecting the progressive/neo-con agenda that is pervasive in our federal government, he has stood alone many times.

Regardless of how you feel about him, he energized many from my generation and really helped lay down a great political foundation to stand on. Because of Ron Paul many young people such as myself have become very interested in getting involved in politics, and fighting for the cause of liberty.


You seem like the type of guy who knows too much to change his mind, so I will be done here.
Oh yeah, liberty. The concept exists independently of Ron Paul and has done so for centuries. I recommend Locke and Rousseau as a good initial reading.

Also, I have no doubt that young people find Ron Paul fascinating. What I doubt is their judgement :)

(by the way, the Ed and Elaine Brown story and the "NAFTA superhighway" are way more illustrative than the newsletters; while anyone can be a run-of-the-mill racist, few people can be as spectacularly detached from reality as Ron Paul demonstrably is)
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 07:02:11 PM
Alex Jones, I would think, even embarrassed his supporters with this interview. Jones is highly intelligent. If he stayed on topic and calm he could have presented a really good case for folks who are strong supporters of the 2nd amendment. It's a shame, really.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: nickagneta on January 08, 2013, 07:32:12 PM
This interview should be proof positive that guns should not be in the hands of the populace. The guy is demonstrably unstable, was getting angry quite easily, wanted to punch Morgan for no reason and yet he has guns and says no one can take them from him.

And people think this type of behavior is going to help those who want to limit gun control laws? I see and have read a lot of people act the same way as Alex Jones when discussing gun control.

"Just try to take the guns from us! Just try! See what happens!!!"

My guess is more guns going off and killing people is what happens and guess what? That just continues to support the reason why people shouldn't have guns. They get a God complex and suddenly feel they get to decide who lives and dies. They feel omnipotent. And then they stand behind their gun with their finger on the trigger.

33,000+ gun deaths, 11,000+ gun homicides, hundreds of thousands of gun related violent incidences per year later, we have what we call reality in America today. In 25 years over 1 million Americans will die because of guns. 250,000+ Americans will be murdered with guns, Tens of millions of incidences of violence involving guns will occur in America.

And people think that price of death and violence is worth paying to have guns available to the ordinary citizen.

I think that price to high a price to pay.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 08, 2013, 07:46:05 PM
Alex Jones, I would think, even embarrassed his supporters with this interview. Jones is highly intelligent. If he stayed on topic and calm he could have presented a really good case for folks who are strong supporters of the 2nd amendment. It's a shame, really.

From his first syllable, Alex Jones didn't appear able to stay calm or on topic. There MAY be a good case for strong support for the 2nd amendment but he did not seem capable of delivering one. Your "highly intelligent" comment makes me think you've listened to this guy before because nothing he said in this 15 minute clip would lead me to such a conclusion.

Given the anger, the incoherence, his hyperbolic conclusions, the childish provocations, and the unwillingness to listen to another person's point of view in this "interview", would you ever listen to this guy again? If so, why?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 08, 2013, 07:49:12 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.

I disagree with most of Ron Paul's policy ideas but I don't think he's crazy, I just think he's wrong.  What is the connection between Paul and Jones?   

Is the clip typical of Jones' behavior?

There is no connection. Roy H. likes to link the two because Paul has agreed (like other politicians) to a couple radio interviews. It also should be noted that Jones is a big Paul supporter.

By choosing to go on Jones' show, Paul is agreeing to continue the link.

Serious politicians shouldn't associate with kooks and conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 08:33:04 PM
Alex Jones, I would think, even embarrassed his supporters with this interview. Jones is highly intelligent. If he stayed on topic and calm he could have presented a really good case for folks who are strong supporters of the 2nd amendment. It's a shame, really.

Given the anger, the incoherence, his hyperbolic conclusions, the childish provocations, and the unwillingness to listen to another person's point of view in this "interview", would you ever listen to this guy again? If so, why?

I would absolutely listen to his show again. Why limit yourself in terms of hearing different perspectives? I think alternative media is very important. I listen to everything I can and try to form my own conclusions. Do I subscribe to even 25% of what Jones has to say? Probably not. But he does his research and can present a good case on subjects when he’s not hollering and yelling like an idiot.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 08, 2013, 08:51:02 PM

By choosing to go on Jones' show, Paul is agreeing to continue the link.

Serious politicians shouldn't associate with kooks and conspiracy theorists.

Jones talks about the government being involved whereas many of us just believe the government is incompetent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Paul has never backed down from an opportunity to express his views to an audience. Fox calls, CNN calls, Jones calls, Robert Downey Jr. calls, whoever calls; he is ready to talk about his ideas. And I would actually argue the opposite of what you’re suggesting. Paul has become wildly successful from this approach from many different angles including in politics. But most importantly, he has changed the hearts and minds and cured the apathy of millions of Americans. He has changed the conversation.

It should be mentioned that current Senators and other Congressman have also appeared with Jones. So respectfully, I think it's fair to say that what you are saying is false.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 08, 2013, 08:55:07 PM

By choosing to go on Jones' show, Paul is agreeing to continue the link.

Serious politicians shouldn't associate with kooks and conspiracy theorists.

Jones talks about the government being involved whereas many of us just believe the government is incompetent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Paul has never backed down from an opportunity to express his views to an audience. Fox calls, CNN calls, Jones calls, Robert Downey Jr. calls, whoever calls; he is ready to talk about his ideas. And I would actually argue the opposite of what you’re suggesting. Paul has become wildly successful from this approach from many different angles including in politics. But most importantly, he has changed the hearts and minds and cured the apathy of millions of Americans. He has changed the conversation.

It should be mentioned that current Senators and other Congressman have also appeared with Jones. So respectfully, I think it's fair to say that what you are saying is false.

What members of Congress have appeared on his show?  I'll make sure I never support them.  Discerning politicians need to draw the line somewhere.  Broadening one's base is one thing, associating with crazy people is another.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D.o.s. on January 08, 2013, 10:36:47 PM
Alex Jones is a lunatic moonbat.  I wish Ron Paul would cut ties with him.

Peas in a pod, to my eyes.

I see Paul as outside the mainstream, but mostly principled.  I see Jones as crazy and exploitative.
Being "outside the mainstream" doesn't mean you're not crazy. Which Ron Paul certainly is :)

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/ron_paul_is_crazy_admit_it.php

I would very much argue he is not.
You could, it's your constitutional right. Unfortunately, all the insane stuff he's said is a matter of public record, so I doubt you'll have much success in this endeavor.

Ron Paul is honest. He speaks to people as if they are intelligent, and able to understand complex ideas. Not every intelligent person agrees with those ideas, and that's fair. To call him crazy is doing a great dis justice to a man who, when it comes to protecting personal liberty and rejecting the progressive/neo-con agenda that is pervasive in our federal government, he has stood alone many times.

Regardless of how you feel about him, he energized many from my generation and really helped lay down a great political foundation to stand on. Because of Ron Paul many young people such as myself have become very interested in getting involved in politics, and fighting for the cause of liberty.


You seem like the type of guy who knows too much to change his mind, so I will be done here.

I do hope you're being rhetorical when you say that Ron Paul laid down a great political foundation.

That's not to say I disagree with him on every issue--I don't. But his solutions always come across as absurdly reductionist to me, and that lack of nuance would buoy a similarly "across the board" perspective that is (IMO, YMMV, ETC.) a disservice to the opportunity for open-minded thought that most voters should bind themselves to.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 08, 2013, 11:32:21 PM
I don't think it's fair to equate an unabashed conspiracy theorist and adamant 'truther' (my good lord that self-anointed moniker is presumptuous) and Ron Paul, who is merely a libertarian. To me it's not even a fine line, Ron Paul believes in small government, strict fiscal responsibility, a military meant for defense only, and extreme individual accountability.

These ideas are radical in the current political spectrum, but they're not crazy. Alex Jones seems flat out crazy. He believes all kinds of crazy over-arcing theories, ideas that aren't based in a reality that isn't drunk on paranoia and hubris.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D.o.s. on January 08, 2013, 11:39:32 PM
I don't think it's fair to equate an unabashed conspiracy theorist and adamant 'truther' (my good lord that self-anointed moniker is presumptuous) and Ron Paul, who is merely a libertarian. To me it's not even a fine line, Ron Paul believes in small government, strict fiscal responsibility, a military meant for defense only, and extreme individual accountability.

These ideas are radical in the current political spectrum, but they're not crazy. Alex Jones seems flat out crazy. He believes all kinds of crazy over-arcing theories, ideas that aren't based in a reality that isn't drunk on paranoia and hubris.

...must...ignore...cheap...shot...at...libertarian...ideology... ;)
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 08, 2013, 11:52:55 PM
I don't think it's fair to equate an unabashed conspiracy theorist and adamant 'truther' (my good lord that self-anointed moniker is presumptuous) and Ron Paul, who is merely a libertarian. To me it's not even a fine line, Ron Paul believes in small government, strict fiscal responsibility, a military meant for defense only, and extreme individual accountability.

These ideas are radical in the current political spectrum, but they're not crazy. Alex Jones seems flat out crazy. He believes all kinds of crazy over-arcing theories, ideas that aren't based in a reality that isn't drunk on paranoia and hubris.

...must...ignore...cheap...shot...at...libertarian...ideology... ;)

And I appreciate it. I get really frustrated with my libertarian friends, but as long as the discourse is polite and sincere, there is no reason to demean anyone. We're all just Americans who want the best for our country, afterall.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D.o.s. on January 08, 2013, 11:58:56 PM
Pretty much.

And, full disclosure, I love me some X-Files/black helicopters/tinfoil thinking, so I have a bit of a soft spot for Alex Jones, but I have, uh, basic cultural differences with the people who seem to sincerely buy into that stuff.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: KGs Knee on January 08, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
This interview should be proof positive that guns should not be in the hands of the populace. The guy is demonstrably unstable, was getting angry quite easily, wanted to punch Morgan for no reason and yet he has guns and says no one can take them from him.

And people think this type of behavior is going to help those who want to limit gun control laws? I see and have read a lot of people act the same way as Alex Jones when discussing gun control.

"Just try to take the guns from us! Just try! See what happens!!!"

My guess is more guns going off and killing people is what happens and guess what? That just continues to support the reason why people shouldn't have guns. They get a God complex and suddenly feel they get to decide who lives and dies. They feel omnipotent. And then they stand behind their gun with their finger on the trigger.

33,000+ gun deaths, 11,000+ gun homicides, hundreds of thousands of gun related violent incidences per year later, we have what we call reality in America today. In 25 years over 1 million Americans will die because of guns. 250,000+ Americans will be murdered with guns, Tens of millions of incidences of violence involving guns will occur in America.

And people think that price of death and violence is worth paying to have guns available to the ordinary citizen.

I think that price to high a price to pay.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Thank you, now my head hurts.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: thirstyboots18 on January 09, 2013, 07:03:32 AM
No matter what the principle,  each side will call on the extremists on the opposition to make their points.  If you listen to that, you are letting extremists (on both sides) decide your course of action.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 09, 2013, 08:04:38 AM
I don't think it's fair to equate an unabashed conspiracy theorist and adamant 'truther' (my good lord that self-anointed moniker is presumptuous) and Ron Paul, who is merely a libertarian.

While I don't think anybody is equating them, Paul has voluntarily chosen to go on Jones' show numerous times, and has "played along" with some of his conspiracies.  When you sleep with dogs, don't be surprised when people start wondering if you have fleas.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 09:12:56 AM
I don't think it's fair to equate an unabashed conspiracy theorist and adamant 'truther' (my good lord that self-anointed moniker is presumptuous) and Ron Paul, who is merely a libertarian.

While I don't think anybody is equating them, Paul has voluntarily chosen to go on Jones' show numerous times, and has "played along" with some of his conspiracies.  When you sleep with dogs, don't be surprised when people start wondering if you have fleas.


Nope, never even 'played along'. I'm definitely curious what your are referring to. As most of you know, I'm a dedicated Paul supporter and have probably heard every Paul interview conducted in the last 5 years including ones he has done with Jones. Paul doesn't give credence to any of Jones' arguments beyond those that advocate limited government.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 09, 2013, 09:37:38 AM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?



Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 09, 2013, 09:41:27 AM
I don't think it's fair to equate an unabashed conspiracy theorist and adamant 'truther' (my good lord that self-anointed moniker is presumptuous) and Ron Paul, who is merely a libertarian.

While I don't think anybody is equating them, Paul has voluntarily chosen to go on Jones' show numerous times, and has "played along" with some of his conspiracies.  When you sleep with dogs, don't be surprised when people start wondering if you have fleas.


Nope, never even 'played along'. I'm definitely curious what your are referring to. As most of you know, I'm a dedicated Paul supporter and have probably heard every Paul interview conducted in the last 5 years including ones he has done with Jones. Paul doesn't give credence to any of Jones' arguments beyond those that advocate limited government.

I see this as playing along:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtjwHHKp3GE

CIA coups, "secret armies", etc.? 

Similarly, see here:

http://ronpaulsupporters.com/ron-paul-talks-new-world-order-and-conspiracies-with-alex-jones/

Jones talks about his "New World Order" conspiracy, and Paul doesn't disavow it.  Rather, he plays along.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 09, 2013, 09:44:00 AM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?

Jones believes 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were inside jobs by the U.S. government, thinks the government intentionally blew up the space shuttle Columbia, and believes that the government is intentionally causing people to turn gay through chemicals inserted into our food.  Those are his more mild conspiracies, too.

CRAZY.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: thirstyboots18 on January 09, 2013, 09:56:07 AM
Some, supposedly liberal anti-gun types. are calling for Alex Jones to be shot.  Please explain to me how this makes them better than he, or the logic of listening to those crazies over Jones.  I disregard both as lunatic fringe.













Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 09, 2013, 10:04:12 AM
Some, supposedly liberal anti-gun types. are calling for Alex Jones to be shot.  Please explain to me how this makes them better than he, or the logic of listening to those crazies over Jones.  I disregard both as lunatic fringe.

Where'd you hear this?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: CelticG1 on January 09, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
Some, supposedly liberal anti-gun types. are calling for Alex Jones to be shot.  Please explain to me how this makes them better than he, or the logic of listening to those crazies over Jones.  I disregard both as lunatic fringe.

Where'd you hear this?

Im sure from some super reputable source...
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 09, 2013, 10:34:00 AM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?

Jones believes 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were inside jobs by the U.S. government, thinks the government intentionally blew up the space shuttle Columbia, and believes that the government is intentionally causing people to turn gay through chemicals inserted into our food.  Those are his more mild conspiracies, too.

CRAZY.

If you do not trust, there is ample evidence to question.

The search for truth is not crazy.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D.o.s. on January 09, 2013, 10:46:34 AM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?

Jones believes 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were inside jobs by the U.S. government, thinks the government intentionally blew up the space shuttle Columbia, and believes that the government is intentionally causing people to turn gay through chemicals inserted into our food.  Those are his more mild conspiracies, too.

CRAZY.

If you do not trust, there is ample evidence to question.

The search for truth is not crazy.

That's true, but you can't just play fast and loose with the rules of evidence if you're actually searching for truth, rather than espousing contrarian thoughts for ratings.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: action781 on January 09, 2013, 11:54:36 AM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?

Jones believes 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were inside jobs by the U.S. government, thinks the government intentionally blew up the space shuttle Columbia, and believes that the government is intentionally causing people to turn gay through chemicals inserted into our food.  Those are his more mild conspiracies, too.

CRAZY.

If you do not trust, there is ample evidence to question.

The search for truth is not crazy.

The problem is with most conspiracy theorists is that they are not searching for truth, they are searching for conspiracy.  When they come across evidence that can clearly debunk their conspiracy, they completely disregard it in search for different evidence that can further support their theories.

One searching for truth enters the search with an open mind, examines all evidence and then makes a decision based on all evidence.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 11:59:45 AM
Roy H. Paul doesn't even acknowledge it. and that link you posted below below the youtube video is quite possibly the most bizzare thing I've ever seen you post on here.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 11:59:54 AM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 09, 2013, 12:10:41 PM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?

Jones believes 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were inside jobs by the U.S. government, thinks the government intentionally blew up the space shuttle Columbia, and believes that the government is intentionally causing people to turn gay through chemicals inserted into our food.  Those are his more mild conspiracies, too.

CRAZY.

If you do not trust, there is ample evidence to question.

The search for truth is not crazy.

That's true, but you can't just play fast and loose with the rules of evidence if you're actually searching for truth, rather than espousing contrarian thoughts for ratings.

I agree with you, Jones's has his eyes on other things, ratings most likely being one of them...other than solely just the truth.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 09, 2013, 12:15:56 PM
Within every subset of people, there are extreme types of all kinds.

Alex Jones is probably the KG of his subgroup. One could equate Jones's "crazy" as passion.

People are different and there are some people who only respond to aggressive, passionate personalities. Some people actually gravitate towards those kinds of personalities.

The short video clip only portrays Alex Jones's passion and craziness for a short time frame. Alex isn't like that all the time. He only gets that way when he is really "in to it".

An example: when Tommy Heinshon gets riled up from the NBA refs, he can sound rather "passionate" as well....sometimes....but that is not 100% of the time.

There are also many sports fans who say "crazy" things and demonstrate "crazy" personalities towards opposing players. I think a few Knicks fans wished Paul Pierce ceased to exist, but they used coarse language and vile intent.

I, for one, was never into believing conspiracies....but things have changed for me, over these last 10+ years.

Is it foolish to place any credence into conspiracies?

Is it naive not to?

If people can fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands, or shoot up schools, movie theaters, killing all kinds of people including 6 year olds.....why not conspiracies?

Jones believes 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were inside jobs by the U.S. government, thinks the government intentionally blew up the space shuttle Columbia, and believes that the government is intentionally causing people to turn gay through chemicals inserted into our food.  Those are his more mild conspiracies, too.

CRAZY.

If you do not trust, there is ample evidence to question.

The search for truth is not crazy.

The problem is with most conspiracy theorists is that they are not searching for truth, they are searching for conspiracy.  When they come across evidence that can clearly debunk their conspiracy, they completely disregard it in search for different evidence that can further support their theories.

One searching for truth enters the search with an open mind, examines all evidence and then makes a decision based on all evidence.


I agree with you. Within the subset of conspiracy theorists there are fanatical ones. There are still legit truth seekers out there who want all the evidence available regarding a specific situation/topic, yet all the evidence is not forthcoming or made available.

Sometimes the evidence already made available is just merely the evidence they want you to see. The rest of the other stuff is left in a file cabinet somewhere to collect dust.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 09, 2013, 12:22:48 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I am not afraid to say it. I fall more in the camps of Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Jesse Ventura.

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would have said the same thing Roy was saying that these kinds of people were "crazy".

Maybe they are not "normal", but that ain't bad in my opinion. To me, in today's society, if you are normal...that ain't necessarily a good thing.

If we are going to lift this country back to the standards that our previous generations have all been used to...we need to be above normal. We need our children to be above normal.

Each and every day, I grow weary of the future generations...standards are lowered...everyone "gets a trophy". I do not believe we are grooming our future the best that we can.

We can only change if we know to change and we cannot know if we do not have all the necessary information....the truth.

If I have to experience the "crazy" conspiracy theorists in order to turn over every rock to find the truth....or at least the opportunity to LOOK for the truth...I feel it is absolutely worth it.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 12:31:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v60TWZNVgtk


Ron Paul being questioned about his willingness to talk to truthers and other folks who have alternative theories.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: action781 on January 09, 2013, 12:38:00 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

Do you mean I believe 100% of the story that has been put out there?  No.

Do you mean I 100% believe that 9-11 was the operation of a terrorist organization and the United States government was no way involved in the planning of it?  I am about as close to 100% sure of this as I am of most other things I believe in.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Interceptor on January 09, 2013, 01:10:38 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?
I don't believe in scare quotes, if that's relevant.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 09, 2013, 01:44:04 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I am not afraid to say it. I fall more in the camps of Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Jesse Ventura.

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would have said the same thing Roy was saying that these kinds of people were "crazy".

Maybe they are not "normal", but that ain't bad in my opinion. To me, in today's society, if you are normal...that ain't necessarily a good thing.

If we are going to lift this country back to the standards that our previous generations have all been used to...we need to be above normal. We need our children to be above normal.

Each and every day, I grow weary of the future generations...standards are lowered...everyone "gets a trophy". I do not believe we are grooming our future the best that we can.

We can only change if we know to change and we cannot know if we do not have all the necessary information....the truth.

If I have to experience the "crazy" conspiracy theorists in order to turn over every rock to find the truth....or at least the opportunity to LOOK for the truth...I feel it is absolutely worth it.

TP for the bolded...

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D Dub on January 09, 2013, 01:46:37 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties. 
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 09, 2013, 02:32:56 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties.

The official investigation, the 9/11 Commission Report has a lot of holes and missing evidence.

It's hard to get the real truth, the real story when official government agencies are uncooperative with the official investigation. 

There are high ranking government officials questioning the 9/11 attacks. It ain't just "crazy" "mo-fos" like Alex Jones who are skeptical.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 03:40:02 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties.

"By any standard - constitutional, financial, national defense - I could not see the merits of the proposed invasion of Iraq." - Page 22 The Revolution, A Manifesto by Ron Paul
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 09, 2013, 03:47:44 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties.

"By any standard - constitutional, financial, national defense - I could not see the merits of the proposed invasion of Iraq." - Page 22 The Revolution, A Manifesto by Ron Paul

What kind of a person titles their book "The Revolution, A Manifesto"

Sounds like something a bad guy from a future dystopian nightmare would get started on.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Roy H. on January 09, 2013, 03:51:39 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties.

"By any standard - constitutional, financial, national defense - I could not see the merits of the proposed invasion of Iraq." - Page 22 The Revolution, A Manifesto by Ron Paul

What kind of a person titles their book "The Revolution, A Manifesto"

Sounds like something a bad guy from a future dystopian nightmare would get started on.

Maybe the same ghost writers who put out his racist newsletters came up with the title. ;)

Before JSD has a stroke, I kid.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 03:59:25 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties.

"By any standard - constitutional, financial, national defense - I could not see the merits of the proposed invasion of Iraq." - Page 22 The Revolution, A Manifesto by Ron Paul

What kind of a person titles their book "The Revolution, A Manifesto"

Sounds like something a bad guy from a future dystopian nightmare would get started on.

Maybe the same ghost writers who put out his racist newsletters came up with the title. ;)

Before JSD has a stroke, I kid.

I chuckled

Paul talks about the meaning behind the title in the book. Essentially it is the nickname given to the movement by his supporters. "It is a Revolution, albeit a peaceful one."
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 09, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I am not afraid to say it. I fall more in the camps of Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Jesse Ventura.

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would have said the same thing Roy was saying that these kinds of people were "crazy".

Maybe they are not "normal", but that ain't bad in my opinion. To me, in today's society, if you are normal...that ain't necessarily a good thing.

If we are going to lift this country back to the standards that our previous generations have all been used to...we need to be above normal. We need our children to be above normal.

Each and every day, I grow weary of the future generations...standards are lowered...everyone "gets a trophy". I do not believe we are grooming our future the best that we can.

We can only change if we know to change and we cannot know if we do not have all the necessary information....the truth.

If I have to experience the "crazy" conspiracy theorists in order to turn over every rock to find the truth....or at least the opportunity to LOOK for the truth...I feel it is absolutely worth it.

I would venture a guess that you know far less about previous generations than you think you do.

Maybe you are referring to the generations that owned people and didn't allow woman to vote, have custody of children after a divorce, or own property.

Maybe you refer to the generation that nearly destroyed itself in a deadly civil war over the right to own people.

Maybe you refer to my father's generation that had high rates of illiteracy, poverty FAR beyond anything you may be aware of today, NO safety nets for the elderly, mentally ill or starving children, and continued to adhere to segregationist and anti-female laws and mores.

Maybe you refer to the WW2 era when we interred Japanese Americans and refused Jews entry to our country and sat idly by for 2 years while Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other minorities were slaughtered by a madman in Europe. 

Maybe you refer to the years of my childhood when forced bussing caused race riots in many major cities and our president was caught covering up a burglary you may have heard of.  Also the generation that sent 50K men to die in VietNam.

Ahhh, the good old days. 

Frankly, this is a great country, but if you think we are 'going to heck in a handbasket' with this generation, you'll probably be surprised that there haven't been too many prior generations that haven't thought the same thing. 

BTW -- I am 54 and I still own 4 participation trophy's from when I was in Little League.  I survived.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 09, 2013, 04:26:24 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I don't. 
I'm curious why HBush was in private meetings with the Bin Laden family the morning of 9/11. 
I'm curious why the Bin Laden's were the only people allowed to fly out of the country on 9/12. 
I'm also curious why WBush did everything in his power to steer us into Iraq after 9/11, and then started handing out no-bid gov't contracts to his VP's company.

go ahead, call me crazy.  that's much easier than actually explaining these ties.

I don't think you are crazy, and I also don't assume that the items above are true.  That said, you do understand that your implication is that the Bush's were complicit in the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11/01.  That idea is crazy. 
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 09, 2013, 04:29:20 PM
Some, supposedly liberal anti-gun types. are calling for Alex Jones to be shot.  Please explain to me how this makes them better than he, or the logic of listening to those crazies over Jones.  I disregard both as lunatic fringe.

I'd just leave out 'liberal anti-gun types' and just call them crazies. That would be fairer.   Crazies exist at all places along the ideological continuum.  What distinguishes them is not their ideology but their craziness.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: JSD on January 09, 2013, 06:15:06 PM
Swann provides some great and interesting stats on the subject per usual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9efqhGBHZI
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Celtics18 on January 09, 2013, 06:33:03 PM
Swann provides some great and interesting stats on the subject per usual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9efqhGBHZI

Some guy gets his ass kicked in a bar fight;  that's a "violent crime."  Some soccer hooligans get arrested for brawling; violent crime.  I don't condone that kind of violence, but it's ridiculous to compare it to people shooting at, and kiling each other, with assault rifles. 

Give me Britain's violent crime rate any day over the murder that Americans are committing against each other at alarming and scary rates with guns meant for killing. 
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: nickagneta on January 09, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
I love a good conspiracy theory.

JFK wasn't assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald.

Americans never landed on the moon.

UFOs did land/crash and were found by the American government in Area 51 and the American southwest.

David Stern fixes NBA playoff series and purposely has refs favor certain teams and players.

We didn't go into Iraq for WMDs or any of the other 4-5 reasons the Bush administration made up.

I just love me some conspiracy theories


But thinking the Bushes were complicit in 9/11 or that the American government or CIA purposely caused 9/11 to start wars elsewhere is simply one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. George W. Bush was a bad president but he is a respectable and good man and American and I simply can not believe he would ever murder 3000 Americans so he could go to war and have thousands of American soldiers die simply to make more money in oil or any of the other really strange, off base, dumb things I have seen attributed to most 9/11 conspiracy theories.

As action871 said. I don't 100% believe the whole government washed down story telling us about 9/11. But I do 100% believe it was an Al Qaeda operation designed to take out important American fiscal and government command buildings and that the Bush administration knew nothing about it before it was happening.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: D.o.s. on January 09, 2013, 10:45:40 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I am not afraid to say it. I fall more in the camps of Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Jesse Ventura.

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would have said the same thing Roy was saying that these kinds of people were "crazy".

Maybe they are not "normal", but that ain't bad in my opinion. To me, in today's society, if you are normal...that ain't necessarily a good thing.

If we are going to lift this country back to the standards that our previous generations have all been used to...we need to be above normal. We need our children to be above normal.

Each and every day, I grow weary of the future generations...standards are lowered...everyone "gets a trophy". I do not believe we are grooming our future the best that we can.

We can only change if we know to change and we cannot know if we do not have all the necessary information....the truth.

If I have to experience the "crazy" conspiracy theorists in order to turn over every rock to find the truth....or at least the opportunity to LOOK for the truth...I feel it is absolutely worth it.

I would venture a guess that you know far less about previous generations than you think you do.

Maybe you are referring to the generations that owned people and didn't allow woman to vote, have custody of children after a divorce, or own property.

Maybe you refer to the generation that nearly destroyed itself in a deadly civil war over the right to own people.

Maybe you refer to my father's generation that had high rates of illiteracy, poverty FAR beyond anything you may be aware of today, NO safety nets for the elderly, mentally ill or starving children, and continued to adhere to segregationist and anti-female laws and mores.

Maybe you refer to the WW2 era when we interred Japanese Americans and refused Jews entry to our country and sat idly by for 2 years while Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other minorities were slaughtered by a madman in Europe. 

Maybe you refer to the years of my childhood when forced bussing caused race riots in many major cities and our president was caught covering up a burglary you may have heard of.  Also the generation that sent 50K men to die in VietNam.

Ahhh, the good old days. 

Frankly, this is a great country, but if you think we are 'going to heck in a handbasket' with this generation, you'll probably be surprised that there haven't been too many prior generations that haven't thought the same thing. 

BTW -- I am 54 and I still own 4 participation trophy's from when I was in Little League.  I survived.


 ;D

Things are generally better for most people in this country than they have been in the rest of the nation's history.

Doesn't mean we're close to fixing the problem, but we tend to trend in the right direction.

As for the 9/11 stuff, I think that there is blame to be laid at the Clinton and W. Bush administrations for not taking Al Qaeda as seriously as they should have prior to the attacks, but generally I think there are too many relatively autonomous moving parts in the government to co-ordinate an airtight conspiracy.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Interceptor on January 10, 2013, 09:16:12 AM
As for the 9/11 stuff, I think that there is blame to be laid at the Clinton and W. Bush administrations for not taking Al Qaeda as seriously as they should have prior to the attacks, but generally I think there are too many relatively autonomous moving parts in the government to co-ordinate an airtight conspiracy.
As they say: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 10, 2013, 10:05:55 AM
http://www.hulu.com/watch/443266#i1,p0,d1

Jon Stewart drops the knowledge bombs in your earhole. He also makes fun of Alex Jones.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 11, 2013, 12:35:54 AM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I am not afraid to say it. I fall more in the camps of Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Jesse Ventura.

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would have said the same thing Roy was saying that these kinds of people were "crazy".

Maybe they are not "normal", but that ain't bad in my opinion. To me, in today's society, if you are normal...that ain't necessarily a good thing.

If we are going to lift this country back to the standards that our previous generations have all been used to...we need to be above normal. We need our children to be above normal.

Each and every day, I grow weary of the future generations...standards are lowered...everyone "gets a trophy". I do not believe we are grooming our future the best that we can.

We can only change if we know to change and we cannot know if we do not have all the necessary information....the truth.

If I have to experience the "crazy" conspiracy theorists in order to turn over every rock to find the truth....or at least the opportunity to LOOK for the truth...I feel it is absolutely worth it.

I would venture a guess that you know far less about previous generations than you think you do.

Maybe you are referring to the generations that owned people and didn't allow woman to vote, have custody of children after a divorce, or own property.

Maybe you refer to the generation that nearly destroyed itself in a deadly civil war over the right to own people.

Maybe you refer to my father's generation that had high rates of illiteracy, poverty FAR beyond anything you may be aware of today, NO safety nets for the elderly, mentally ill or starving children, and continued to adhere to segregationist and anti-female laws and mores.

Maybe you refer to the WW2 era when we interred Japanese Americans and refused Jews entry to our country and sat idly by for 2 years while Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other minorities were slaughtered by a madman in Europe. 

Maybe you refer to the years of my childhood when forced bussing caused race riots in many major cities and our president was caught covering up a burglary you may have heard of.  Also the generation that sent 50K men to die in VietNam.

Ahhh, the good old days. 

Frankly, this is a great country, but if you think we are 'going to heck in a handbasket' with this generation, you'll probably be surprised that there haven't been too many prior generations that haven't thought the same thing. 

BTW -- I am 54 and I still own 4 participation trophy's from when I was in Little League.  I survived.

I think you just made my point for me.

All those events you listed are milestones of how this great country has grown.

In past generations, the people of this country had great reasons and topics to fight for and fight against.

The current generation and the future generations will never have those milestones....those historic turning points.

What civil movement or societal endeavor will the new generation have? Rebelling against MTV so they can play music videos again? (Sarcasm)

To me, this country and society is de-evolving. We are not evolving and adding positives to sustain our once greatness. We are losing our shine.

Once we strip away our bare essential freedoms we will be following a path to our doom, our downfall.

If you want to sustain a championship team you have to add to it, not strip the team down. 
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: LB3533 on January 11, 2013, 12:43:44 AM
http://www.hulu.com/watch/443266#i1,p0,d1

Jon Stewart drops the knowledge bombs in your earhole. He also makes fun of Alex Jones.

We need to launch an anti-mass murder media campaign targeting the mentally ill demographic?

If that's what it took to drive down DWIs and if that's what it takes to reach the people....so be it.

Now who gonna pay for all that? Our government? John Stewart?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 11, 2013, 03:42:22 PM
http://www.hulu.com/watch/443266#i1,p0,d1

Jon Stewart drops the knowledge bombs in your earhole. He also makes fun of Alex Jones.

We need to launch an anti-mass murder media campaign targeting the mentally ill demographic?

If that's what it took to drive down DWIs and if that's what it takes to reach the people....so be it.

Now who gonna pay for all that? Our government? John Stewart?

I think what you took away from the piece was very different than what I took away from the piece.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: nickagneta on January 11, 2013, 07:33:58 PM
Does everyone here 100% believe in the 'official' story of 9-11?

I am not afraid to say it. I fall more in the camps of Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Jesse Ventura.

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would have said the same thing Roy was saying that these kinds of people were "crazy".

Maybe they are not "normal", but that ain't bad in my opinion. To me, in today's society, if you are normal...that ain't necessarily a good thing.

If we are going to lift this country back to the standards that our previous generations have all been used to...we need to be above normal. We need our children to be above normal.

Each and every day, I grow weary of the future generations...standards are lowered...everyone "gets a trophy". I do not believe we are grooming our future the best that we can.

We can only change if we know to change and we cannot know if we do not have all the necessary information....the truth.

If I have to experience the "crazy" conspiracy theorists in order to turn over every rock to find the truth....or at least the opportunity to LOOK for the truth...I feel it is absolutely worth it.

I would venture a guess that you know far less about previous generations than you think you do.

Maybe you are referring to the generations that owned people and didn't allow woman to vote, have custody of children after a divorce, or own property.

Maybe you refer to the generation that nearly destroyed itself in a deadly civil war over the right to own people.

Maybe you refer to my father's generation that had high rates of illiteracy, poverty FAR beyond anything you may be aware of today, NO safety nets for the elderly, mentally ill or starving children, and continued to adhere to segregationist and anti-female laws and mores.

Maybe you refer to the WW2 era when we interred Japanese Americans and refused Jews entry to our country and sat idly by for 2 years while Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other minorities were slaughtered by a madman in Europe. 

Maybe you refer to the years of my childhood when forced bussing caused race riots in many major cities and our president was caught covering up a burglary you may have heard of.  Also the generation that sent 50K men to die in VietNam.

Ahhh, the good old days. 

Frankly, this is a great country, but if you think we are 'going to heck in a handbasket' with this generation, you'll probably be surprised that there haven't been too many prior generations that haven't thought the same thing. 

BTW -- I am 54 and I still own 4 participation trophy's from when I was in Little League.  I survived.

I think you just made my point for me.

All those events you listed are milestones of how this great country has grown.

In past generations, the people of this country had great reasons and topics to fight for and fight against.

The current generation and the future generations will never have those milestones....those historic turning points.

What civil movement or societal endeavor will the new generation have? Rebelling against MTV so they can play music videos again? (Sarcasm)

To me, this country and society is de-evolving. We are not evolving and adding positives to sustain our once greatness. We are losing our shine.

Once we strip away our bare essential freedoms we will be following a path to our doom, our downfall.

If you want to sustain a championship team you have to add to it, not strip the team down.
What you cal de-evolving I call progress. Sorry but times were not better when just white males ruled this country and anyone not white or rich suffered.

Today's generation isn't any different than any other of the youngest generations this country has ever seen. Blacks getting freedom was going to ruin the country. Alcohol was going to ruin the country. Women voting was going to ruin the country. Clothing trends of the young were going to ruin the country. Rock and roll music was going to ruin the country. Television was going to ruin the country. Rap music was going to ruin the country.

Somehow the country survived, grew, adapted and became better even though all those young generations were going to ruin the country with their new ideas.

So now gay marriage is going to ruin the country. Reality television is going to ruin the country. The internet is going to ruin the country. Smart phones are going to ruin the country and the grow of atheism is going to ruin the country.

Somehow, I think this generation will grow, make the country better and stronger and the generation thinking this country is de-volving because of the new technologies and societal changes will look every bit as ridiculous as those generations before them who thought their younger generations were ruining the country.

Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 02:21:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

my hero...Nobel Prize winning economist...listen closely to the words in the 2 minute video...this video is over 30 years old but so salient to what we see now...the principles and the hard truth are the same.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
And as a side note to nickagenta ...I agree with you on Big Corporations. While I believe with all my heart of capitalism over socialism. Illegal Crony capitalism meaning government officials being in bed for decades with big corrupt corporations has led us to a fascist (corporate elite type government where true hard working small entrepreneurs have a smaller and smaller chance of making the American dream come true through honest capitalism and individual freedomm to create products and jobs.

 A big corrupt over spending government (which we have) combined with giant corrupt corporate power hungry CEO's in bed with this government by illegally buying power and protection in back room lobbying every day makes for the classic fascist state - which is exactly what we have. I'll keep my guns as long as I can because these situations scare me more than a very small minority of suicidal kids who find guns.   
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 12, 2013, 04:06:57 PM
And as a side note to nickagenta ...I agree with you on Big Corporations. While I believe with all my heart of capitalism over socialism. Illegal Crony capitalism meaning government officials being in bed for decades with big corrupt corporations has led us to a fascist (corporate elite type government where true hard working small entrepreneurs have a smaller and smaller chance of making the American dream come true through honest capitalism and individual freedomm to create products and jobs.

 A big corrupt over spending government (which we have) combined with giant corrupt corporate power hungry CEO's in bed with this government by illegally buying power and protection in back room lobbying every day makes for the classic fascist state - which is exactly what we have. I'll keep my guns as long as I can because these situations scare me more than a very small minority of suicidal kids who find guns.

I need to check with you on this -- I think you just said a "classic fascist state" is exactly what we have here in America.  Do I have that correct? 

Please tell me the fascist states, and fascist dictatorships you would compare to present day America.  Also, let me know what our president has said or done that is fascist -- now, I'm not talking about policies that may indeed be unfriendly to small business or unfriendly to capitalism in general.  These exist. But fascist?  Sorry, no. In fact, absolutley absurd.   

This assessment is so far from what I think is true that perhaps you'll understand when I say that I don't feel even a little bit like I need a gun to potect my family from the government. 

My day so far: I went to get my mother's groceries, drove to visit her, went to the Dunkin' Donuts, gassed up my car, mailed my final college payment for my eldest daughter, dropped off packages at UPS and then at Fed Express for my wife. I am settling down now to get ready to watch football on my LCD TV. Or I could watch any of 150 channels from Fox news to MSNBC to **** to Sesame Street.  All of the above is my choice.  I may also decide to visit any of the million options on the web and probably will send a message or 2 on my favorite blog.  My choice.

We are not perfect, but I can't let you call our system fascist.  It isn't.  My grandparents fled fascist countries and thankfuly lived to tell about it. If you really think America is fascist, why in the world are you living here?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 04:45:58 PM
I was born here and my relatives fought for this country. My relatives first came to Virginia from England circa late 1700's. I love this country .....so that is why I live here

We are allowed to be critical of the country we were born in and have lived for over 200 years....

Fascism by Webster :
a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


(please not the words "tendency towards"


Corporatism as defined by Webster:
the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction

And I did not say I needed my guns to provide protection from the government did I?

Why so angry
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
and please don't call me absurd or what I said absurd until you fully understand what I have said - isn't that why you were asking? or was that rhetorical? so you could then rant?
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: kozlodoev on January 12, 2013, 04:52:19 PM
and please don't call me absurd or what I said absurd until you fully understand what I have said - isn't that why you were asking? or was that rhetorical? so you could then rant?
I hope you understand what you've said too -- especially in the part where it says autocratic and dictatorial control.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 12, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
I was born here and my relatives fought for this country. My relatives first came to Virginia from England circa late 1700's. I love this country .....so that is why I live here

We are allowed to be critical of the country we were born in and have lived for over 200 years....

Fascism by Webster :
a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


(please not the words "tendency towards"


Corporatism as defined by Webster:
the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction

And I did not say I needed my guns to provide protection from the government did I?

Why so angry
and please don't call me absurd or what I said absurd until you fully understand what I have said - isn't that why you were asking? or was that rhetorical? so you could then rant?

Anger was generated from the statement: "Classic fascist state, which is exactly what we have".  Very clear statement and difficult to misinterpret. And I do think the statement is absurd though I don't think your point of view (outside of that statement) is absurd even though I disagree. 

Another definition from Wikipedia: "Fascism (pron.: /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.[1][2] Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community through discipline, indoctrination, and physical training.[3][4] Fascism utilizes a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation upon fascist principles.[5] Fascism views direct action including political violence and war, as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality."

I'll accept being angry that America is being considered a classic fascist state.  Not sure why this makes me angry, just does.  And I apologize for impyling that you were saying you needed protection from the government. That was my interpretation of what you were saying and that interpretation was evidently wrong. Sorry about that. 

No, I wasn't really being rhetorical, I am interested in hearing about other classic fascist states that remind you of present day America.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 05:15:49 PM
when I have more time I will reply as long as we promise to keep it civil ..please
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 12, 2013, 05:24:03 PM
when I have more time I will reply as long as we promise to keep it civil ..please

I agree that anger doesn't really have a place in a good, thoughtful discussion.  I apologize -- I was emotionally bothered by the fascist reference and reacted.  I am very rarely not civil and can easily abide.  Hope you have a good day. Peace. 
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: nickagneta on January 12, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
I think we have a government that is meant to represent the people of this country but it doesn't make that a priority anymore. Capitalism in its current form, for let's face facts, we do not have pure capitalism, has perverted our democratic form of government. Corporate power has been integrated almost seamlessly with the political parties and politicians through campaign finance and special interest lobbies to control the government and create an economy that is favorable for their continuing existence at the cost for what is best for the country.

I don't think corporations care whether government is large or small, so long as they can control it to control the market and maximize their profits. That is what has happened and so we have a government that is a democratic corporate aristocracy being sold to its constituents as a democratic republic. The "idea" of a democratic republic has been sold to the citizens of American by the corporate powers that have a stranglehold on the policy makers of this country.

Corporations control the country. They control the government through the political parties and politicians they pay off with finance funds. Corporations have these people create policy and law that is in their best interests first and foremost then they sell the view to voters that this country is theirs through television, radio, print, internet and other forms of propaganda. Talk shows, newspaper and internet reporting, advertising, political campaign advertising, etc are all forms of this corporate propaganda making people believe the government is there for them first.

Thing is, I still believe in this form of government and think it the best type in the world. What Americans have to do is to stop sucking from the teat that is corporate America. Take back your government by insisting on removing corporate influence on this government. If that can be done then the USA can once again be a government for, of and by the people.

BTW, I don't think this view of our government is all that different than Master Po's view. I just wouldn't label it fascist. As I said I would call it a democratic corporate aristocracy.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: wayupnorth on January 12, 2013, 06:26:56 PM
Yeah... just a joke.. of course.

How is this acceptable to them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-5vfPpFE_c
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 12, 2013, 06:28:58 PM
Piers Morgan is no peach either, I don't know if we've said this. The fact that he comes across as completely rational and sensible in this interview just shows how nuts Alex Jones is.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 06:36:52 PM
The answers are not contained on talk shows like these ...
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Master Po on January 12, 2013, 09:38:36 PM
this is for neurotic guy as a start to perhaps a discussion


Quote
- Economic Fascism -

"When most people hear the word `fascism' they naturally think of its ugly racism and anti-Semitism as practiced by the totalitarian regimes of Mussolini and Hitler. But there was also an economic policy component of fascism, known in Europe during the 1920s and '30s as "corporatism," that was an essential ingredient of economic totalitarianism as practiced by Mussolini and Hitler.

So- called corporatism was adopted in Italy and Germany during the 1930s and was held up as a "model" by quite a few intellectuals and policy makers in the United States and Europe. A version of economic fascism was in fact adopted in the United States in the 1930s and survives to this day...

So-called "corporatism"... stands in stark contrast to the classical liberal idea that individuals have natural rights that pre-exist government; that government derives its "just powers" only through the consent of the governed; and that the principal function of government is to protect the lives, liberties, and properties of its citizens, not to aggrandize the state.

Mussolini viewed these liberal ideas (in the European sense of the word "liberal") as the antithesis of fascism: "The Fascist conception of life," Mussolini wrote, "stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with the State. It is opposed to classical liberalism [which] denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual." Mussolini thought it was unnatural for a government to protect individual rights: "The maxim that society exists only for the well-being and freedom of the individuals composing it does not seem to be in conformity with nature's plans." "If classical liberalism spells individualism," Mussolini continued, "Fascism spells government."

Another result of the close "collaboration" between business and government in Italy was `a continual interchange of personnel between the. . . civil service and private business.' Because of this `revolving door' between business and government, Mussolini had `created a state within the state to serve private interests which are not always in harmony with the general interests of the nation.' Mussolini's `revolving door' swung far and wide...

The whole idea behind collectivism in general and fascism in particular is to make citizens subservient to the state and to place power over resource allocation in the hands of a small elite... Such decisions should be made by a "dominant class" he labeled "the elite."
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 12, 2013, 10:25:42 PM
Is Social Security socialism?  How about Medicare?   Do folks support those programs?   I know many do.

Right now money controls the country, governement and sadly the news.
Title: Re: Piers Morgan invites Alex Jones to discuss 2nd Amendment, Fireworks ensues....
Post by: indeedproceed on January 12, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
Seems like we're getting a bit far afield from insufferable Piers '1 Imports' Morgan and Crazytown Bananapants Alex Jones. Im gonna go on ahead and lock it.