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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: BleedGreen1989 on January 07, 2013, 12:08:02 AM

Title: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on January 07, 2013, 12:08:02 AM
Can we please put these crazy rumors to rest? Sacremento would be insane to trade him. I know they're distinctional but c'mon

24.5 points per game
15.3 rebounds per game
3.8 assists per game
1.75 blocks per game
52.7 shooting percentage
76.9 free throw percentage
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: syfy9 on January 07, 2013, 12:11:37 AM
We can dream, can't we?
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: indeedproceed on January 07, 2013, 12:11:42 AM
I think he'll still be moved. There are 3 years of bad blood there, and the Kings aren't (I believe) going to want to pay him the money he'll command with the risk that he'll buck again. I think all he's doing is driving up his price tag.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Accension13 on January 07, 2013, 12:13:28 AM
Looks like great numbers for a soon to be celtic in my opinion!
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 07, 2013, 12:17:39 AM
head case or not he can out play DH12 when he is on and hungry .

I want him on the Celtics. 
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on January 07, 2013, 12:23:24 AM
I'd absolutely love for him to be a Celtic but I just don't see it happening. If Danny can land him with our pieces then he wins Exec of the year
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: j804 on January 07, 2013, 12:28:55 AM
I'd absolutely love for him to be a Celtic but I just don't see it happening. If Danny can land him with our pieces then he wins Exec of the year
I would love him but wouldnt it be a move for the future and not win now? I dont think Cousins would put us over the top if we had to give up Lee, Bradley, Sully and our entire bench. You probably would have to do it though.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: KGs Knee on January 07, 2013, 12:31:02 AM
Only player I wouldn't trade for him is Rondo.

Maybe if he has another issue with Sac his value drops enough for us to pounce.  As of now we don't have the assets, sans Rondo.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: LooseCannon on January 07, 2013, 12:54:47 AM
It doesn't matter how well he plays.  Trading him is more related to how likely he is to have another incident, not how he does on the court.

Still, I think Sacramento should be looking for a replacement big who can start right away, a good young player, a high draft pick, and someone to take Salmons' contract off their hands in any trade of Cousins.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: mctyson on January 07, 2013, 06:17:52 AM
I think he'll still be moved. There are 3 years of bad blood there, and the Kings aren't (I believe) going to want to pay him the money he'll command with the risk that he'll buck again. I think all he's doing is driving up his price tag.

The Kings are a franchise in turmoil.  They are most likely going to move to some other location in Cali.  If you are the owners of that squad and are either (a) trying to build a new fan base, or (b) trying to sell the team...why would you trade the best player on your team?
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 07, 2013, 08:02:21 AM
Not only are those numbers absurd but the Kings are 4 and 2 in the last 6 games with him in the line up.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: CFAN38 on January 07, 2013, 08:02:51 AM
I think his new agent might have something to do. He is know for facilitating trades for his players. I would bet anything that he sat Cousins down and explained that his stock is at an all time low and he needs to pick it up. At the same time he prob told the kings "my guy wants out but he is going to play his ass of to get you a good return you just have to move him"

This would make for a very quick "indefinite suspension" and a suddenly super focused Cousins.


All this being said he is now out of reach for the Celts. 
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: scaryjerry on January 07, 2013, 08:30:36 AM
these numbers mean nothing in terms of being moved or not sorry
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Who on January 07, 2013, 08:33:57 AM
these numbers mean nothing in terms of being moved or not sorry
Why not?
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: StartOrien on January 07, 2013, 08:56:34 AM
I think he'll still be moved. There are 3 years of bad blood there, and the Kings aren't (I believe) going to want to pay him the money he'll command with the risk that he'll buck again. I think all he's doing is driving up his price tag.

The Kings are a franchise in turmoil.  They are most likely going to move to some other location in Cali.  If you are the owners of that squad and are either (a) trying to build a new fan base, or (b) trying to sell the team...why would you trade the best player on your team?

I think there's an argument to be made that this is probably the best time to trade him. The Kings rebuilding project is going to take years, what makes you think he'll stay past his rookie contract based on his experience with the team and where they'll be at?
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: RyNye on January 07, 2013, 09:30:24 AM
As impressive as those numbers are, I won't really be impressed until Cousins can sustain that sort of good production over a full season.

So far, Cousins has never been able to stay consistent. He will follow up a stretch of games like this with a stretch of games where he shoots under 40% from the field with more turnovers than blocks, and the Kings will go 2-8. He has talent, for sure, but he has not shown he can put it together on a night-in, night-out basis yet.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: soap07 on January 07, 2013, 10:17:31 AM
Quote
I think he'll still be moved. There are 3 years of bad blood there, and the Kings aren't (I believe) going to want to pay him the money he'll command with the risk that he'll buck again. I think all he's doing is driving up his price tag.

Bad blood is a little strong. He's, what, 22?

Quote
As impressive as those numbers are, I won't really be impressed until Cousins can sustain that sort of good production over a full season.

The guy averaged 18-11 last year over a course of a full season. He has definitely shown that he can sustain good production.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2013, 10:20:06 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts. 
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 07, 2013, 10:20:21 AM
Quote
I think he'll still be moved. There are 3 years of bad blood there, and the Kings aren't (I believe) going to want to pay him the money he'll command with the risk that he'll buck again. I think all he's doing is driving up his price tag.

Bad blood is a little strong. He's, what, 22?

Quote
As impressive as those numbers are, I won't really be impressed until Cousins can sustain that sort of good production over a full season.

The guy averaged 18-11 last year over a course of a full season. He has definitely shown that he can sustain good production.

Yeah I couldn't agree with you more. What else could you ask for from a 21 year old playing in his second NBA season?
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 07, 2013, 10:21:56 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2013, 10:23:58 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Moranis on January 07, 2013, 10:24:32 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.
I agree and if it is Rondo, I think Boston gets Evans as well.  I still think this trade is good for both teams.

Evans, Cousins, Brooks for Rondo, Melo
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: scaryjerry on January 07, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
these numbers mean nothing in terms of being moved or not sorry
Why not?

It increases what the kings will ask for, I'm not seeing how if they wanted to move him a few good games is going to change that?
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 07, 2013, 11:02:33 AM
Higher production could probably mean a steeper price to acquire him? Unless he does another mishap, I don't think we have enough to give SacTo to get Cousins.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: ssspence on January 07, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.

I agree, but find it harder and harder to imagine the Cs trading Rondo for Cousins, even if Evans, Fredette, whoever came back with him.

As for Gay, I felt David Aldridge made a very good point in his article about salary. The Maloofs are finally achieving strong flexibility in terms of location and financials. Sounds like they have no lease on an arena next year, and they basically have no bad contracts. That's what they care about.

Even for a good player like Gay, i suspect that means they'd balk. Rondo's a different story, but again, I dunno if Danny would go that far. He and Bradley sure seem to like playing together......
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 07, 2013, 11:08:46 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.

Gay comes to mind and I could see them making a play because of their lack of SF. However like someone pointed out they Kings are looking fairly good financially. Adding a long term contract like Gay wouldnt be very appealing to them I dont think.

Plus it would have to be a three team deal. Im not sure Memphis would have an interest in Cousins with Randolph and Gasol in front of him. Although the do lack a back up Center and that trio in the front court would do some pretty good damage.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2013, 11:10:37 AM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.

I agree, but find it harder and harder to imagine the Cs trading Rondo for Cousins, even if Evans, Fredette, whoever came back with him.

As for Gay, I felt David Aldridge made a very good point in his article about salary. The Maloofs are finally achieving strong flexibility in terms of location and financials. Sounds like they have no lease on an arena next year, and they basically have no bad contracts. That's what they care about.

Even for a good player like Gay, i suspect that means they'd balk. Rondo's a different story, but again, I dunno if Danny would go that far. He and Bradley sure seem to like playing together......

Well, the reason the Maloofs like their financial flexibility is because they can use it to try to build a winning team.

I think they would love to get their hands on a guy like Gay.

And if they can find a way to turn Cousins and Evans and spare parts into Rondo and Gay, they could very well be on their way to rebuilding on the fly, and making a jump like they did years ago when they traded for Chris Webber. 
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Moranis on January 07, 2013, 12:00:45 PM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.

I agree, but find it harder and harder to imagine the Cs trading Rondo for Cousins, even if Evans, Fredette, whoever came back with him.

As for Gay, I felt David Aldridge made a very good point in his article about salary. The Maloofs are finally achieving strong flexibility in terms of location and financials. Sounds like they have no lease on an arena next year, and they basically have no bad contracts. That's what they care about.

Even for a good player like Gay, i suspect that means they'd balk. Rondo's a different story, but again, I dunno if Danny would go that far. He and Bradley sure seem to like playing together......

Well, the reason the Maloofs like their financial flexibility is because they can use it to try to build a winning team.

I think they would love to get their hands on a guy like Gay.

And if they can find a way to turn Cousins and Evans and spare parts into Rondo and Gay, they could very well be on their way to rebuilding on the fly, and making a jump like they did years ago when they traded for Chris Webber.
Not that I think this would happen, but I think it is a reasonable trade for all 3 teams

Boston gets Cousins, Robinson, Brooks for Rondo, Bass, Melo
Memphis gets Bass, Salmons, Evans for Gay
Sacramento gets Gay, Rondo, Melo for Cousins, Robinson, Evans, Brooks, and Salmons

other small pieces like Arthur, Collins, Wilcox, etc. could easily be put into the mix depending on other moves.

The more I think about that trade, the more I like it for all three teams.  It really seems to help all 3, Memphis gets a more manageable contract situation with a lot more depth and a dynamic guard going forward.  Boston beefs up the interior with young talented players.  Sacramento gets two "star" level players to build around going forward to create a new core.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2013, 12:05:40 PM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.

I agree, but find it harder and harder to imagine the Cs trading Rondo for Cousins, even if Evans, Fredette, whoever came back with him.

As for Gay, I felt David Aldridge made a very good point in his article about salary. The Maloofs are finally achieving strong flexibility in terms of location and financials. Sounds like they have no lease on an arena next year, and they basically have no bad contracts. That's what they care about.

Even for a good player like Gay, i suspect that means they'd balk. Rondo's a different story, but again, I dunno if Danny would go that far. He and Bradley sure seem to like playing together......

Well, the reason the Maloofs like their financial flexibility is because they can use it to try to build a winning team.

I think they would love to get their hands on a guy like Gay.

And if they can find a way to turn Cousins and Evans and spare parts into Rondo and Gay, they could very well be on their way to rebuilding on the fly, and making a jump like they did years ago when they traded for Chris Webber.
Not that I think this would happen, but I think it is a reasonable trade for all 3 teams

Boston gets Cousins, Robinson, Brooks for Rondo, Bass, Melo
Memphis gets Bass, Salmons, Evans for Gay
Sacramento gets Gay, Rondo, Melo for Cousins, Robinson, Evans, Brooks, and Salmons

Yeah, I wonder whether they would give up Robinson or not.  I tend to think he might be the one young guy they would keep, because he is the type of player that just needs a guy like Rondo to blossom. 

...he also is the main reason I think they will have little to no interest in Sully. 
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Moranis on January 07, 2013, 01:26:31 PM
Here's my theory.  During the suspension, Petrie went to Cousin's agent and said "look, we can't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  We don't want him here anymore than he wants to be here, but we need to save some face (and value).  So, if he really wants out, then he needs to get out there on the floor, keep his head down, and show other teams that he is an elite player that they NEED to have, so we can get a good return for him."

Sacramento will continue to try to build his value until closer to the trade deadline.  They want to get some real value for him. 

I really think if he is coming to the C's, it would be for Rondo, not for some spare parts.

It makes sense, but I gotta think if Rondo is involved Ainge only does it if we get both Cousins and Evans. I still dont make that trade but it has to be the asking price if Rondo's name comes up.

Oh yeah, I don't think Danny would ever do Cousins for Rondo straight up.  He may not send Rondo in any Cousins deal. 

But my point is, I think that is the type of talent they are going to be looking for in a Cousins deal.

I could also see them target some of the other big names that could be available.  Someone like Gay comes to mind.

I agree, but find it harder and harder to imagine the Cs trading Rondo for Cousins, even if Evans, Fredette, whoever came back with him.

As for Gay, I felt David Aldridge made a very good point in his article about salary. The Maloofs are finally achieving strong flexibility in terms of location and financials. Sounds like they have no lease on an arena next year, and they basically have no bad contracts. That's what they care about.

Even for a good player like Gay, i suspect that means they'd balk. Rondo's a different story, but again, I dunno if Danny would go that far. He and Bradley sure seem to like playing together......

Well, the reason the Maloofs like their financial flexibility is because they can use it to try to build a winning team.

I think they would love to get their hands on a guy like Gay.

And if they can find a way to turn Cousins and Evans and spare parts into Rondo and Gay, they could very well be on their way to rebuilding on the fly, and making a jump like they did years ago when they traded for Chris Webber.
Not that I think this would happen, but I think it is a reasonable trade for all 3 teams

Boston gets Cousins, Robinson, Brooks for Rondo, Bass, Melo
Memphis gets Bass, Salmons, Evans for Gay
Sacramento gets Gay, Rondo, Melo for Cousins, Robinson, Evans, Brooks, and Salmons

Yeah, I wonder whether they would give up Robinson or not.  I tend to think he might be the one young guy they would keep, because he is the type of player that just needs a guy like Rondo to blossom. 

...he also is the main reason I think they will have little to no interest in Sully.
I actually had the original trade sending Sully to Sacramento instead of Melo, but then thought Boston was giving up enough value as was and swapped Melo in for Sully and frankly I really don't know who I would value more long term (Sully or Robinson).  I mean they were pretty similar players in college with Sully falling so much in the draft more for injury concerns than anything else.

And of course they are getting Rondo and Gay so I think they probably have to give up Robinson along with Evans and Cousins.  I really think that is a win win win type trade for all three teams.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: RyNye on January 07, 2013, 02:02:36 PM
Also, not to be **** or anything, but the OP got the numbers wrong.

Since returning, these are the actual averages:

20.8 points per game
13.5 rebounds per game
5 assists per game
0.5 blocks per game
1.8 steals per game
1.8 turnovers per game
4 fouls per game

48.0% field goal percentage
80.5% free throw percentage

Not quite as rosy. The turnovers and FG% are pretty big red flags.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Moranis on January 07, 2013, 02:11:48 PM
Also, not to be **** or anything, but the OP got the numbers wrong.

Since returning, these are the actual averages:

20.8 points per game
13.5 rebounds per game
5 assists per game
0.5 blocks per game
1.8 steals per game
1.8 turnovers per game
4 fouls per game

48.0% field goal percentage
80.5% free throw percentage

Not quite as rosy. The turnovers and FG% are pretty big red flags.
that is hardly any turnovers for a big guy with the ball that much.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 02:15:28 PM
Also, not to be **** or anything, but the OP got the numbers wrong.

Since returning, these are the actual averages:

20.8 points per game
13.5 rebounds per game
5 assists per game
0.5 blocks per game
1.8 steals per game
1.8 turnovers per game
4 fouls per game

48.0% field goal percentage
80.5% free throw percentage

Not quite as rosy. The turnovers and FG% are pretty big red flags.
that is hardly any turnovers for a big guy with the ball that much.
Yeah 2 TOs when you're shooting enough to score 20 PPG is nothing. Throw in 5 assists and you're doing VERY well in the TO department.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: wdleehi on January 07, 2013, 02:19:04 PM
Also, not to be **** or anything, but the OP got the numbers wrong.

Since returning, these are the actual averages:

20.8 points per game
13.5 rebounds per game
5 assists per game
0.5 blocks per game
1.8 steals per game
1.8 turnovers per game
4 fouls per game

48.0% field goal percentage
80.5% free throw percentage

Not quite as rosy. The turnovers and FG% are pretty big red flags.


5 assists to 1.8 turnovers is a bad thing? 

2.7 assist to TO ratio.  The best C is 2.07.   The best PF is 2.00.  There are only two SFs that are better.


Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: RyNye on January 07, 2013, 03:25:42 PM
Why is it that I always have to explain basketball 101 to people?

Yeah 2 TOs when you're shooting enough to score 20 PPG is nothing. Throw in 5 assists and you're doing VERY well in the TO department.
[/quote]

First of all, "shooting enough to score 20 PPG" is an incredibly meaningless statement.

You DO realize that scoring 20 points is a BAD thing if your field goal percentage is as low as Cousins' is? You DO realize that a missed shot has the exact same effect as a turnover if you don't get the offensive rebound?

Think about it this way: the league average field goal percentage for a center is 49.7%. During Cousins' BEST STRETCH OF THE SEASON he shot 48, but his average for the ENTIRE season so far is a measly 42.9%. This coming from a player who launches 23.5 field goal attempts every game.

So, first of all, it should be a HUGE red flag to you when he has more field goal attempts than points. So, out of 23.5 field goal attempts, he converts, on average, 42.9% of them (before you say anything about him having a slump for the season, his FG from previous seasons is not much better. His career average is just over 43). So, in an average game, he is going to get you about 10 field goals (or, roughly 20 points, give or take depending on 3 pointers and free throws and all that).

But a LEAGUE AVERAGE center, on the same number of field goal attempts, will convert almost 12 of those field goals. Cousins is producing FEWER POINTS PER GAME THAN AN AVERAGE CENTER WOULD GIVEN THE SAME NUMBER OF FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS. That means Cousins is a below average scorer. Considering the Kings have plenty of ABOVE average shooters, Cousins is actively hurting the Kings by taking all of those shots that should be being taken by GOOD shooters, as opposed to BAD ones.

So that's that.

Now, on to the turnovers. Yes, during Cousins's BEST STRETCH OF THE SEASON he had a good assist to turnover ratio. Good for him. Do you know how he is doing on the season as a whole? 2.7 assists per game, 2.5 turnovers per game. Ouch.

So when Cousins plays out of his mind, best basketball of the season, he just manages to not turn the ball over so much as he usually does, but he is stool shooting TERRIBLY.

I am not impressed, and I am really surprised at how often I have to explain to people that 20 points on 23 shots is NOT a good thing to have on your basketball team. It is actively harmful. If you are missing 13 shots per game, on average, as Cousins is, and your team manages to grab <10% of available offensive rebounds (as the Kings do) - meaning of those 13 you will get 1-2 back, let's say 2 to be charitable.

That's 11 extra turnovers.

And yes, they are equivalent. After all, what is the difference between a missed shot and a turnover? Absolutely nothing. It gives the other team possession, and basketball is a game of maximizing possessions. Obviously, every player misses shots. However, you need to make sure that the players with the best chance of making a shot are taking it, to increase the odds of scoring points versus turning the ball over to the other team. When you have a player that converts field goal attempts at a rate that is LOWER THAN THE LEAGUE AVERAGE, he should NOT be taking a lot of shots, because he will be turning the ball over to the other team at a greater rate.

Seriously, people, basketball 101.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: wdleehi on January 07, 2013, 03:36:18 PM
NBA 101


Big man (7 footers) capable of a double double  (20 and 10) are always wanted. 


Throw in the fact that he has the chance to really grow, teams take that chance.


If he was the player he is capable of being right now, their is no way the Celtics have the pieces to get him. 


But if you can get him now, on the cheap before his big contract, you take the chance.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: kozlodoev on January 07, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Do you know how he is doing on the season as a whole? 2.7 assists per game, 2.5 turnovers per game. Ouch.
For a center, that's not horrible at all, so I'm not sure what the ouch is all about.

For centers who play 20+ minutes, this slightly above average (which is 0.95) and good for 10th in the league (of a total of 33 players).

Want the real bottom-dwellers from that lot? Try Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Nikola Pekovic, or Omer Asik.

Seriously, people, basketball 101.
Follow your own advice and gain some perspective before teaching others. Thank you.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: kozlodoev on January 07, 2013, 03:50:52 PM
NBA 101
I'll also give you another NBA 101: every time you have the chance to add this type of talent without giving up any of your top 4-5 players, you do it and don't look back. Issues or no issues.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 03:55:17 PM
A league "average" center:

Shoots 50% FG 54 TS% and scores 13.7 Points per 40 minutes on 11.2 FGA/p40 with 10 Reb/p40 3.7 FTA/40 (and shoots 67% from the line), 1.6 Assists/p40, and has 2.8 TO/p40

Cousins:

Shoot 48% .54 TS% and scored 25.25 Points/p40 on 20 FGA/p40, 7.3 FTA/p40, 16 Reb/p40, 6.1 Ast/p40, 2.22 TO/p40

Cousins isn't scoring more efficiently than the average C. (who mostly just shoots layups others generates) but he's scoring a LOT more than the average C which is very valuable. In every other category he's far better than an average center.

Even if you move it up to solely Cs who play 30+ minutes a game he's still putting up great performances in the past 6 games. And at that point you're comparing him to the best other teams can put out there.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Roy H. on January 07, 2013, 03:57:56 PM
A league "average" center:

Shoots 50% FG 54 TS% and scores 13.7 Points per 40 minutes on 11.2 FGA/p40 with 10 Reb/p40 3.7 FTA/40 (and shoots 67% from the line), 1.6 Assists/p40, and has 2.8 TO/p40

Cousins:

Shoot 48% .54 TS% and scored 25.25 Points/p40 on 20 FGA/p40, 7.3 FTA/p40, 16 Reb/p40, 6.1 Ast/p40, 2.22 TO/p40

Cousins isn't scoring more efficiently than the average C. (who mostly just shoots layups others generates) but he's scoring a LOT more than the average C which is very valuable. In every other category he's far better than an average center.

Even if you move it up to solely Cs who play 30+ minutes a game he's still putting up great performances in the past 6 games. And at that point you're comparing him to the best other teams can put out there.

Yeah, if my starting center shoots 48% while putting up 20 points, I'm okay with that.

I'm more concerned about the 41% or so he shot the rest of the season, but I think with better teammates and a better system his shot selection would improve.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 04:03:23 PM
Interesting thing is that if you cut the center crop down to the heavy minutes guys they FG% drops a full percent to 49.3%.

Just shows you that if you filter out the backups who mostly get putbacks and the like Cousins 48% isn't unusual at all.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 04:06:43 PM
Also the "best" other teams can put out there includes Byron Mullens and Vuvevic.

So yeah......

I wish hoopdata had a PF/C option in its sort fields.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: alajet on January 07, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
23.5 field goal attempts per game? Am I high or something? I double checked the stats and saw that he's taking 15.1 shots per game.
Still trying to get from where this number popped up.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: PhoSita on January 07, 2013, 04:17:12 PM
Even if Demarcus is miserable, doesn't make sense for the Kings to move him before the summer.  Probably a draft day trade -- say if they really liked one of the top 2-3 picks or something.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2013, 04:20:14 PM
Even if Demarcus is miserable, doesn't make sense for the Kings to move him before the summer.  Probably a draft day trade -- say if they really liked one of the top 2-3 picks or something.

Eh, that's pretty risky, and they might lose value.  If he has another hissy fit (or two) this year, his value could draft any lower, and right now, they also have team like the C's, who are a little desperate for an impact big man, and may pay more than they would in the offseason.

It makes sense to make a trade in the offseason, when you are a winning team and don't want to upset things, or when the player has a big contract that is cumbersome to match.  However, with the Kings going nowhere, and Cousin's having a relatively small deal, it makes more sense to try to maximize his value before it gets any lower.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on January 07, 2013, 04:32:45 PM
NBA 101
I'll also give you another NBA 101: every time you have the chance to add this type of talent without giving up any of your top 4-5 players, you do it and don't look back. Issues or no issues.



Agree 100% TP
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: ScottHow on January 07, 2013, 04:35:53 PM
The days leading up to the deadline are going to go by sooooooooooo slow.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: PhoSita on January 07, 2013, 04:44:38 PM
The days leading up to the deadline are going to go by sooooooooooo slow.

And at the end of the day nothing too exciting will happen.  Probably.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: greenpride32 on January 07, 2013, 05:27:01 PM
Cousins just replaced his agent last week or so with a guy who has a rocky history with the King's GM so it's almost certain he'll be out of SAC in the future.  I would expect SAC to trade him for something rather than just let him walk away.  But he's not an FA until 2014 so they have time.
Title: Re: Look at Demarcus Cousin's numbers since returning, exactly why he's staying put
Post by: Who on January 08, 2013, 12:35:07 AM
It looks like Cousins' strong play came to an end tonight.

10 points (3-9 FGAs, 4-5 FTAs, 4 TOs) and 8 rebounds in 27 minutes in a 32 point loss to the Memphis Grizzlies.