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Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: triboy16f on January 04, 2013, 11:59:23 PM

Title: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: triboy16f on January 04, 2013, 11:59:23 PM
This is the way i see it so far. If anyone from Portland be representing the all star game it will be Lillard. Amazing what he has been able to do in his first year. Drummond lately has been on fire. Averaging 10 points , 10 rebounds, 2 to 3 blocks a game. Sully and Ezeli have been the two biggest steals of the draft so far.

1.   Damian Lillard
2.   Andre Drummond
3.   Anthony Davis
4.   Harrison Barnes
5.   Terence Ross
6.   MKG
7.   Bradley Beal
8.   Jared Sullinger
9.   Festus Ezeli
10.   Tyler Zeller
11.   Dion Waiters
12.   Andrew Nicholson
13.   Meyers Leonard
14.   Draymond Green
15.   Thomas Robinson


Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: indeedproceed on January 05, 2013, 12:01:02 AM
Anthony Davis is head and shoulders above everyone else, at least when he's been on the court.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: barefacedmonk on January 05, 2013, 12:02:15 AM
Lillard is first. Drummond is a close second.

Waiters is probably a couple of spots lower than he should be.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 05, 2013, 12:28:36 AM
how is anthony davis not number 1? the dude is insane. he's putting up better numbers than a rookie KG.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: triboy16f on January 05, 2013, 12:33:28 AM
how is anthony davis not number 1? the dude is insane. he's putting up better numbers than a rookie KG.

bc lillard is putting up even better numbers. Look up his stats
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: syfy9 on January 05, 2013, 12:42:49 AM
how is anthony davis not number 1? the dude is insane. he's putting up better numbers than a rookie KG.

bc lillard is putting up even better numbers. Look up his stats
Agreed. Lillard's played in every game so far. Lillard right now is better than Derrick Rose as a rookie. He's a much better shooter though, averaging 2.3 threes a game. 
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 05, 2013, 01:24:55 AM
i was having this talk with a friend the other day. The future stars from this draft imo

Anthony Davis
Lillard
Drummond

Next tier great player

Barnes
Sully
Waiters
Beal
MKG

solid players

Leonard
Robinson
Rivers
Ross
Nicholson
Zellar
Henson

There is 9 on the top
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Who on January 05, 2013, 01:32:56 AM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: barefacedmonk on January 05, 2013, 01:34:28 AM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully

I think you're vastly under rating Drummond.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Who on January 05, 2013, 01:40:51 AM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully

I think you're vastly under rating Drummond.

Are the listings about performance or potential?  If it's performance, I have Drummond 6th behind those 5 guys. If it's potential, I have him 2nd behind Anthony Davis.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: barefacedmonk on January 05, 2013, 01:43:38 AM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully

I think you're vastly under rating Drummond.

Are the listings about performance or potential?  If it's performance, I have Drummond 6th behind those 5 guys. If it's potential, I have him 2nd behind Anthony Davis.

I went with potential and have Lillard first and Drummond a close second. I'm not too high on Davis for some reason. I mean not high enough to have in the top 2. I'd rank him 3rd. And if you go by performace, I'd rank Waiters ahead of Ross, Ezeli and Sully.

Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: indeedproceed on January 05, 2013, 02:21:40 AM
If you've got Davis at anything but #1, and you're going on potential, I think you're vastly under rating his defensive potential. We're talking KG like difference here long-term. He'll block 2 shots but alter 50, just by being on the court. Plus, he's maybe the highest IQ and character guy we've seen since Derrick Rose.

If you're going by on-court performance, you can justify Lillard, but also Davis. As a starter in November he averaged 15 and 9 with 2.7 blocks in just 28 minutes per game.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 05, 2013, 02:42:36 AM
Fairly safe to say the 2012 draft year has the potential to be an extremely good draft.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: D Dub on January 05, 2013, 02:46:49 AM
I've got

1) Davis
2) Lilliard
3) Drummond
4) Waiters
5) Barnes

With Sully around 10; ahead of Leonard, Nicholson and Zeller but behind Ezeli & Ross.  Really glad we didnt end up with Rivers or White...

Sneaky sleeper from this class could be Harkless
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: triboy16f on January 05, 2013, 02:48:09 AM
If you've got Davis at anything but #1, and you're going on potential, I think you're vastly under rating his defensive potential. We're talking KG like difference here long-term. He'll block 2 shots but alter 50, just by being on the court. Plus, he's maybe the highest IQ and character guy we've seen since Derrick Rose.

If you're going by on-court performance, you can justify Lillard, but also Davis. As a starter in November he averaged 15 and 9 with 2.7 blocks in just 28 minutes per game.

Yeah but in the end of the day, where is NO at in the standings?? Where is Portland at?? Its not all on Davis, but i bet you switch Davis with Lillard and NO does better. Lillard is the only 2012 drafted rookie that has a chance to play at the all star game this year

Lillard has a more mature body and elite offensive skills. His defense is also quite good. On the other hand Davis offensive skills doesn't match his elite defensive capabilities. Also his scrawny body is of a concern. How much weight will he be able to put on?? It took KG years to build a strong body. And then there are guys like Mikki Moore who could never get strong.

This being said, if we went back on draft day , i still take Davis. But as of right now, Lillard is the best player out of the 2012 draft class so far.

The intention of this thread is to rank, best performance so far (75%) and glimpse of potential (25%). 
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: triboy16f on January 05, 2013, 02:51:21 AM
I've got

1) Davis
2) Lilliard
3) Drummond
4) Waiters
5) Barnes

With Sully around 10; ahead of Leonard, Nicholson and Zeller but behind Ezeli & Ross.  Really glad we didnt end up with Rivers or White...

Sneaky sleeper from this class could be Harkless

Its your opinion, but imo no way Waiters is better than Barnes or Ross. Waiters has been a big time hog so far. He is shooting 7 for 20, 5 for 15 , more frequently than 6-8, 5-7 etc.  He can score no doubt, but right now either he is not playing correctly or being played correctly.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: D Dub on January 05, 2013, 02:56:07 AM
Yeah efficiency is important.  To me Waiters just has that scorers gene, reminds me a lot of Harden.  Ross & Barnes are both solid but I don't think either could ever be their teams 1a
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: barefacedmonk on January 05, 2013, 02:58:21 AM
I see Dummond as being better than Davis in the long run. I guess time will tell. His per 36 minutes numbers are better than Dwight Howard's during his rookie year.

Their rookie numbers:

DH: 13.2 pts, 11.1 rbs, 1.8 blks, .52 FG% with 104 pts allowed per 100 possessions.

AD: 12.9 pts, 13.3 rbs, 2.8 blks, .58 FG% with 98 pts allowed per 100 possessions.

Davis: 15.9 pts, 9.8 rbs, 2.3 blks, .48 FG% with 105 points allowed per 100 possessions.

KG: 13.1 pts, 7.9, rbs, 2.1 blks, .49 FG%, with 107 pts allowed per 100 possessions.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: indeedproceed on January 05, 2013, 03:26:24 AM
If you've got Davis at anything but #1, and you're going on potential, I think you're vastly under rating his defensive potential. We're talking KG like difference here long-term. He'll block 2 shots but alter 50, just by being on the court. Plus, he's maybe the highest IQ and character guy we've seen since Derrick Rose.

If you're going by on-court performance, you can justify Lillard, but also Davis. As a starter in November he averaged 15 and 9 with 2.7 blocks in just 28 minutes per game.

Yeah but in the end of the day, where is NO at in the standings?? Where is Portland at?? Its not all on Davis, but i bet you switch Davis with Lillard and NO does better. Lillard is the only 2012 drafted rookie that has a chance to play at the all star game this year

Lillard has a more mature body and elite offensive skills. His defense is also quite good. On the other hand Davis offensive skills doesn't match his elite defensive capabilities. Also his scrawny body is of a concern. How much weight will he be able to put on?? It took KG years to build a strong body. And then there are guys like Mikki Moore who could never get strong.

This being said, if we went back on draft day , i still take Davis. But as of right now, Lillard is the best player out of the 2012 draft class so far.

The intention of this thread is to rank, best performance so far (75%) and glimpse of potential (25%).

Eh, I still take Davis. He had an early minor injury that he tried to play through and failed, then had to play his way back. If he stays healthy, I bet he still takes ROY.

And that's not taking anything away from Lillard. I wasn't a believer in him, but so many people talked him up that I took him in the 5th round of my big money keeper league (along with Davis in the 4th, suckers!), and he's better than advertised.

I just think by the end of things, you're gonna see Davis's 16 points 9 boards and ~3 blocks in less minutes be the better candidate.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: eja117 on January 05, 2013, 09:00:42 AM
This is the way i see it so far. If anyone from Portland be representing the all star game it will be Lillard. Amazing what he has been able to do in his first year. Drummond lately has been on fire. Averaging 10 points , 10 rebounds, 2 to 3 blocks a game. Sully and Ezeli have been the two biggest steals of the draft so far.

1.   Damian Lillard
2.   Andre Drummond
3.   Anthony Davis
4.   Harrison Barnes
5.   Terence Ross
6.   MKG
7.   Bradley Beal
8.   Jared Sullinger
9.   Festus Ezeli
10.   Tyler Zeller
11.   Dion Waiters
12.   Andrew Nicholson
13.   Meyers Leonard
14.   Draymond Green
15.   Thomas Robinson
At the very least I put Singler and Val ahead of Festus. I don't see how Ross can be ahead of Beal or MKG or Waiters or Nicholson. You have to put Shved in the area of Beal also.  I think Harkless and Taylor have to get some credit for making meaningful starts.  I also think there are some rookies out there that are being horridly underused on teams with a lack of production even thought they did well in the D League. Fab Melo is one. Jared Cunningham is another

Oh. I see the title says "drafted rookies".   So Shved, Mirza, Chris Copeland, and Brian Roberts are ineligible. Oh. I also see it says 2012. So Singler, Freeland, and Val are also ineligible as is Donatas M
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: indeedproceed on January 05, 2013, 10:06:00 AM
Shved's been playing very well for Minny. Mirza, Donutz, etc... notsomuch, right?
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Roy H. on January 05, 2013, 10:35:43 AM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully

If we're talking performance to date, why Ezeli over Drummond?

Ezeli is starting for a good team, so he gets props for that, but I think if you put Drummond on the Warriors they'd be even better, with Drummond providing better production.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Roy H. on January 05, 2013, 10:46:42 AM
Strictly in terms of performance to date, I think you have to go with Lillard so far.  Davis has only played in 19 games, and he gets dinged for that.

By the end of the season, though, I expect Davis to have overtaken Lillard.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Who on January 05, 2013, 11:16:50 AM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully

If we're talking performance to date, why Ezeli over Drummond?

Ezeli is starting for a good team, so he gets props for that, but I think if you put Drummond on the Warriors they'd be even better, with Drummond providing better production.
Defense

Ezeli plays like no rookie defensively. One of the most accomplished rookie interior defenders I can remember in a long time. Maybe since Tim Duncan. Andre Drummond is still quite raw defensively. He can make a lot of plays on the ball but he's still learning the basics. Only around average or a bit below average defensively.

The Warriors would not be better with Drummond in Ezeli's place. The Pistons would be better with Ezeli in Drummond's place.

No comparison between the potential of the two players but for now Ezeli is the better player solely because his defense is so much more advanced than Drummond's.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 05, 2013, 11:46:28 AM
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Drummond
5. MKG
6. Ezeli
7. Waiters
8. Sully
9. Leonard
10. Nicholson

That's for right now.  By the end of the season, Davis will win ROY.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Roy H. on January 05, 2013, 12:13:28 PM
(1) Davis
(2) Lillard
(3) Barnes
(4) MKG
(5) Ezeli
(6) Drummond
(7) Ross
[8] Sully

If we're talking performance to date, why Ezeli over Drummond?

Ezeli is starting for a good team, so he gets props for that, but I think if you put Drummond on the Warriors they'd be even better, with Drummond providing better production.
Defense

Ezeli plays like no rookie defensively. One of the most accomplished rookie interior defenders I can remember in a long time. Maybe since Tim Duncan. Andre Drummond is still quite raw defensively. He can make a lot of plays on the ball but he's still learning the basics. Only around average or a bit below average defensively.

The Warriors would not be better with Drummond in Ezeli's place. The Pistons would be better with Ezeli in Drummond's place.

No comparison between the potential of the two players but for now Ezeli is the better player solely because his defense is so much more advanced than Drummond's.

In terms of points allowed per opponents' possession, both guys are above average this season, and are separated by only .03 points allowed per possession (.84 Drummond vs. .81 Ezeli).  Drummond's defensive rating of 97 is better than Ezeli's 101 (although I'm not a huge fan of this stat).

When Drummond is on the floor, the Pistons are +8.0 points per 48 minutes better than when he is on the bench.  The Warriors are actually 4.2 points per 48 minutes *worse* with Ezeli.

I haven't watched either player play a ton this season, but statistically, Drummond seems to have a clear advantage.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Roy H. on January 05, 2013, 12:14:06 PM
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Drummond
5. MKG
6. Ezeli
7. Waiters
8. Sully
9. Leonard
10. Nicholson

That's for right now.  By the end of the season, Davis will win ROY.

No Beal?
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Fan from VT on January 05, 2013, 12:28:10 PM
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Drummond
5. MKG
6. Ezeli
7. Waiters
8. Sully
9. Leonard
10. Nicholson

That's for right now.  By the end of the season, Davis will win ROY.

No Beal?

Barnes doesn't belong on that list yet. He's supposed to be a shooter, and he's at 50% TS%, quite bad. He should get better, but right now it's just not there yet. 11.11 PER for an offensive player is quite bad. He should be last on the list or not at all, and there's definitely no way drummond and MKG are behind him.

Valenciunas is doing solid work though.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: gar on January 05, 2013, 01:21:19 PM
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Drummond
5. MKG
6. Ezeli
7. Waiters
8. Sully
9. Leonard
10. Nicholson

That's for right now.  By the end of the season, Davis will win ROY.

No Beal?

Beal had a rough start. Like the way Sully was  standing up to West. Some of those on the list may have more upside than Sully on the list; but he has shown a lot grit and poise for a rookie.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Donoghus on January 05, 2013, 01:29:33 PM
Lillard's been the best rookie this season so far but still think Davis will end up being the best of this crop.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 05, 2013, 02:39:14 PM
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Drummond
5. MKG
6. Ezeli
7. Waiters
8. Sully
9. Leonard
10. Nicholson

That's for right now.  By the end of the season, Davis will win ROY.

No Beal?

I really thought Beal was going to be better than he is.  That being said, I haven't watched the Wiz a whole lot this season, so I'm probably not the right guy to judge his performance.

Once Wall returns, I think Beal will play much, much better.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: triboy16f on January 05, 2013, 06:54:55 PM
Drummond is >> than Ezeli.

Ezeli is doing his job as a center, clogging up the middle, rebounding and blocking shots. But in terms of any offensive help, he is not contributing

Drummond is doing everything ezeli is and scoring also. Pistons are on a run right now. Monroe and Drummond are looking like a dangerous front court combo
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: azzenfrost on January 15, 2013, 03:13:46 PM
Sully should be higher up now.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: Birdman on January 15, 2013, 03:41:43 PM
Bggest Bust so far is Austin Rivers!!
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: LooseCannon on January 15, 2013, 03:53:25 PM
Top ten in WS48 (using b-r.com's formula) among rookies with a minimum of 300 minutes played.

1. Andre Drummond
2. Jared Sullinger
3. John Henson
4. Anthony Davis
5. Meyers Leonard
6. Chris Copeland (undrafted)
7. Jonas Valanciunas (drafted in 2011)
8. Andrew Nicholson
9. Damian Lillard
10. Pablo Prigoni (undrafted)

Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: eja117 on January 15, 2013, 04:45:21 PM
Top ten in WS48 (using b-r.com's formula) among rookies with a minimum of 300 minutes played.

1. Andre Drummond
2. Jared Sullinger
3. John Henson
4. Anthony Davis
5. Meyers Leonard
6. Chris Copeland (undrafted)
7. Jonas Valanciunas (drafted in 2011)
8. Andrew Nicholson
9. Damian Lillard
10. Pablo Prigoni (undrafted)
Copeland and Leonard ahead of Lilliard? How?
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: indeedproceed on January 15, 2013, 05:16:56 PM
Top ten in WS48 (using b-r.com's formula) among rookies with a minimum of 300 minutes played.

1. Andre Drummond
2. Jared Sullinger
3. John Henson
4. Anthony Davis
5. Meyers Leonard
6. Chris Copeland (undrafted)
7. Jonas Valanciunas (drafted in 2011)
8. Andrew Nicholson
9. Damian Lillard
10. Pablo Prigoni (undrafted)
Copeland and Leonard ahead of Lilliard? How?

Minutes played and usage. Lilliard spends more time against better players, and handles the ball more often. Its gonna hurt his efficiency a bit.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: RyNye on January 15, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
Drummond and Lillard are CLEARLY the two front-runners. They have had the most impact on the court this year.

Davis has been good, but not as good as them. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Look at their games, look at their numbers. Davis has a higher ceiling than either of them, but as of the way they've played this year Davis just hasn't been as impactful a player as either of them.

If you are putting Davis as number 1, you are doing so out of potential, not out of what has actually happened this year.

So Davis I will put at 3. Sully and Kidd-Gilchrist should be next (the latter has been massively underrated by getting inconsistent minutes on a bad team).
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: moiso on January 15, 2013, 05:41:27 PM
Drummond and Lillard are CLEARLY the two front-runners. They have had the most impact on the court this year.

Davis has been good, but not as good as them. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Look at their games, look at their numbers. Davis has a higher ceiling than either of them, but as of the way they've played this year Davis just hasn't been as impactful a player as either of them.

If you are putting Davis as number 1, you are doing so out of potential, not out of what has actually happened this year.

So Davis I will put at 3. Sully and Kidd-Gilchrist should be next (the latter has been massively underrated by getting inconsistent minutes on a bad team).
Agree Drummond and Lilard have been better than Davis so far.  I think Drummond may have a higher ceiling than Davis too.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: eja117 on January 15, 2013, 05:50:27 PM
Davis just strikes me as a guy who doesn't really want it that bad. I'm not really seeing the effort. He seems content to take his time and develop. He seems to be looking at Lopez and Ryan Anderson like "Wow. You guys are good. Hey Eric Gordon is good too." like he's trying to fit in or something. The guy should be showing killer instinct. He's not. It's like he's waiting for the HGH to kick in or something.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 15, 2013, 06:50:00 PM
Davis just strikes me as a guy who doesn't really want it that bad. I'm not really seeing the effort. He seems content to take his time and develop. He seems to be looking at Lopez and Ryan Anderson like "Wow. You guys are good. Hey Eric Gordon is good too." like he's trying to fit in or something. The guy should be showing killer instinct. He's not. It's like he's waiting for the HGH to kick in or something.

I haven't watched the Hornets a ton this season, but when I have, Davis has looked great.

He runs the floor well, has energy on defense, and seems to be a great teammate.  If the guy could add a jump hook and 20-25 pounds, he'd be a beast.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: PhoSita on January 15, 2013, 08:26:14 PM
Top ten in WS48 (using b-r.com's formula) among rookies with a minimum of 300 minutes played.

1. Andre Drummond
2. Jared Sullinger
3. John Henson
4. Anthony Davis
5. Meyers Leonard
6. Chris Copeland (undrafted)
7. Jonas Valanciunas (drafted in 2011)
8. Andrew Nicholson
9. Damian Lillard
10. Pablo Prigoni (undrafted)

Damian Lillard behind Meyers Leonard and Jonas Valanciunas.

If we needed more proof that WS per 48 is a severely flawed stat, we have it now.
Title: Re: 2012 drafted rookies ranking so far
Post by: LooseCannon on January 16, 2013, 12:40:22 AM
Top ten in WS48 (using b-r.com's formula) among rookies with a minimum of 300 minutes played.

1. Andre Drummond
2. Jared Sullinger
3. John Henson
4. Anthony Davis
5. Meyers Leonard
6. Chris Copeland (undrafted)
7. Jonas Valanciunas (drafted in 2011)
8. Andrew Nicholson
9. Damian Lillard
10. Pablo Prigoni (undrafted)
Copeland and Leonard ahead of Lilliard? How?

Minutes played and usage. Lilliard spends more time against better players, and handles the ball more often. Its gonna hurt his efficiency a bit.

It has more to do with Lilliard being an inefficient volume scorer whose shooting percentages resemble those of players like Jamal Crawford or Rudy Gay.  His stats do look a lot like Crawford with more assists and fewer free throws at a lower rate.