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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: quidinqui33 on January 03, 2013, 06:33:07 PM

Title: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: quidinqui33 on January 03, 2013, 06:33:07 PM
Now that about two years has passed since the trade and both players have not had any major impact on their teams, I'm curious to see how many people would trade Green to get Perkins back.  I think I would. 

I wanted to take a poll, but not sure how do the vote feature.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: D.o.s. on January 03, 2013, 06:35:36 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Who on January 03, 2013, 06:40:33 PM
No -- Perk wouldn't help this team.

Perk is where he should be. On a title contender as a power based defensive center alongside a quick footed roaming help defender in Ibaka. Leave him be.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 03, 2013, 06:42:51 PM
yup.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mgent on January 03, 2013, 06:53:50 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: kozlodoev on January 03, 2013, 06:58:03 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.
Right, but you're not going to fill it with Kendrick Perkins. The hole opened when he got injured, not when he got traded.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Roy H. on January 03, 2013, 06:58:44 PM
I'd prefer Perk to Green.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mgent on January 03, 2013, 07:30:45 PM
The hole opened when he got injured, not when he got traded.
What's the difference?

And how can you compare KG, Perkins, and Big Baby to KG, Perkins, Wilcox, Bass and Sullinger?
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Clench123 on January 03, 2013, 07:43:21 PM
In a heartbeat
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 03, 2013, 08:03:36 PM
No.   Perkins is shot and damaged goods.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: kozlodoev on January 03, 2013, 08:13:21 PM
The hole opened when he got injured, not when he got traded.
What's the difference?

And how can you compare KG, Perkins, and Big Baby to KG, Perkins, Wilcox, Bass and Sullinger?
The difference that the player Perkins has become post-injury is not capable of filling the hole. Catch my drift yet?
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: D.o.s. on January 03, 2013, 08:19:31 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: ssspence on January 03, 2013, 08:25:44 PM
Honestly? They both stink. They're subtraction by addition at their salaries.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Donoghus on January 03, 2013, 08:36:10 PM
No, because Old Perk isn't going to be walking thru that door.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticSooner on January 03, 2013, 08:55:51 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.

No hindsight needed when you are counting on two injury prone guys in their late 30's to help you late in the season. It was a huge gamble that backfired.

It's three years later and the C's still haven't replaced Perk's role. There's been a lane to the basket ever sense.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 03, 2013, 09:09:28 PM
Unless you just love Perk for the memories or love him as a person I don't see how you could want to swap him if you've watched him the last few years.

That's saying something because it's not like Green has been even good but still wouldn't swap him for multiple reasons.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: ScottHow on January 03, 2013, 09:24:32 PM
I'd take Perk back. Atleast I could then watch Celtics games and be able to point at my tv screen and go ooooohhhhhh it's Perk!!
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 03, 2013, 09:33:41 PM
I watch almost every OKC game and am certain that Perk could help fill a much more glaring need on the Celtics than what green provides (backup SF minutes).

It seems pretty noticeable to me that the Cs are as soft as butter in the paint.  Here's what Tony Allen told WEEI yesterday

Quote
“I don’t think they’ve really got a defensive-minded guy yet,” added Allen. “I mean, they’ve got one [Avery Bradley], but I can’t say he’s 100 percent just yet. I don’t think they’ve got the center like Perk [Kendrick Perkins]. It’s kind of hard finding a guy like — a guy who clogs up the paint, talks trash to you and can actually back it up. They’re just missing a lot. I don’t know. I don’t see the same team from 2008.”

It was a dumb trade when Ainge made it, and the Celtics still haven't been able to fill the vital role that Perk played here in Boston.  Their playoff run last season was aided by injuries to all star bigs for both Atlanta and Miami. 

Perk is very good at mucking up the paint at both ends.  I'll take that over Green's uneven, wimpy play in his 23 mediocre minutes a game.  There are plenty of guys who can give you 9.8 points off the bench in 8.6 shots shooting 42%, while barely rebounding or assisting.  There aren't a lot of guys who can do what Perk does, which is defend the post one on one, box out, and provide a consistently physical presence at both ends of the court.   
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: D.o.s. on January 03, 2013, 09:45:35 PM
Don't forget bricking free throws.

Here's the quantifiable stuff he brings to the Thunder now:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01/lineups/2013/

He is a solid post defender... in a league that's increasingly gravitating toward jump shooters. He's an all right defender... when he has someone that'll roam with him, like Ibaka. But he's already peaked as a player, and he doesn't fit our needs well enough to justify his price tag (the other reason why he was shipped out).
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 03, 2013, 10:06:57 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: soap07 on January 03, 2013, 10:23:11 PM
So say what you want about Jeff Green - he's not a liability out there in any facet of the game. He's not great at anything (shows flashes - but not many), but he's not HORRENDOUS at anything.

At this point in his career, Perkins is horrendous offensively and a terrible rebounder. And in terms of his defensive impact - look at the numbers.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12OKC13.HTM#onoff

OKC's defensive efficiency with Perk on the court: 104.6
With him off? 104.9

Offensively though? 111.5 with him on, 116.8 with him off.

Basically, the Thunder are worse with him on the court by a fair margin. Also, one more stat: His opponent's PER is 19.7. That is not good, especially in a league with weak centers.

His vaunted defensive ability isn't making much of an impact with the Thunder this year. So what is he really bringing to the table?

Green is still a better player, but that's not saying much, because Perkins is truly that poor now.


Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: soap07 on January 03, 2013, 10:26:52 PM
The other thing about Perk is that he's getting worse. He's is, once again, averaging a career low in FG%, PER, rebounding rate, second lowest WS/48 and PPG.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: soap07 on January 03, 2013, 10:28:56 PM
Quote
Perk is very good at mucking up the paint at both ends.  I'll take that over Green's uneven, wimpy play in his 23 mediocre minutes a game.  There are plenty of guys who can give you 9.8 points off the bench in 8.6 shots shooting 42%, while barely rebounding or assisting.  There aren't a lot of guys who can do what Perk does, which is defend the post one on one, box out, and provide a consistently physical presence at both ends of the court.   

Did you watch Perk last year in the Finals? Did he muck up or be a consistently physical presence at all? And are you under the opinion that the Celtics couldn't find plenty of guys that will give you 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.?
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticSooner on January 03, 2013, 10:38:38 PM
Overall Green is the better player. Perk is OKC's better version of Jason Collins. He was brought in to slow down Bynum which he did in last year's playoffs. Perk is a can but he adds something the C's really miss. Doc with the small ball wanted his cake and to eat it too.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 03, 2013, 10:43:04 PM
Absolutely. I am actually a Jeff green fan but the C's are in desperate need for another perk. Team hasn't been the same without him.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 03, 2013, 11:28:44 PM
He is not the same player folks.  Hard to limp up and down the court.  Perk = better Collins but not a alot better.   Good at taking up space but not a statistical monster.   He is not the same player he was and is getting worse, I agree.  Green is a way better player.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: OsirusCeltics on January 03, 2013, 11:50:05 PM
I'll still want to trade for Jeff Green in a NY minute
Jeff Green is just a better player

I wouldn't mind keeping Perkins, but he felt he was more of what he was worth, which made me feel sour towards him. A guy with horrible footwork, below-average offensive skills, average rebounder, hardly a shot blocker, asking for 8 million a year? I thank my lucky stars Ainge didn't agree to that contract

Reminds me alot of Ben Wallace (Even though he's way better than Perk). He won a title wit the 2004 Piston team, thought he was worth more, signed a $50 million contract with the Bulls, and struggled mightily. Wasn't as good a player when he didn't have his talented teammates with him
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 04, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
Crazy that people are comparing Perk of OKC to Perk of the Cs. For as much as physical deterioration has impacted his game, his role in OKC has been at least an equal factor. What he meant to us went far beyond his physical talents (which were never really there, anyway). His presence (personality-wise/emotionally) for the OKC club is so different, and minimal.

In the same vein, stat lines do not, and can not, do justice to what Perk brought to our team. I'm pretty peeved that people would even try to quantify Perk's play... whether it is now with OKC or with Cs in the past. The man anchored the toughest defense in the league, he was the ultimate glue guy, everyone trusted him, and he kept the opposing team honest every frieken night. He played big in big games as well. That's what wins championships (aside from a once in a century athlete like Lebron - who also benefited from glue guys with pitiful reg season stats, like Battier). With Perk, in my humble opinion, Cs would have gotten 2 more banners.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: j804 on January 04, 2013, 12:28:25 AM
I'll still want to trade for Jeff Green in a NY minute
Jeff Green is just a better player

I wouldn't mind keeping Perkins, but he felt he was more of what he was worth, which made me feel sour towards him. A guy with horrible footwork, below-average offensive skills, average rebounder, hardly a shot blocker, asking for 8 million a year? I thank my lucky stars Ainge didn't agree to that contract

Reminds me alot of Ben Wallace (Even though he's way better than Perk). He won a title wit the 2004 Piston team, thought he was worth more, signed a $50 million contract with the Bulls, and struggled mightily. Wasn't as good a player when he didn't have his talented teammates with him
Its the going rate for Centers at the time and even now isnt it?
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: moiso on January 04, 2013, 01:20:07 AM
I'd rather have Perk.  At least you always know that Perk is in the building.  That's not the case with Green.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: chambers on January 04, 2013, 02:51:26 AM
absolutely, positively, Jeff Green.

The heart thing was an unknown.

I'd take Perk if he wasn't injured but the exact reason Danny traded him is because he knew Perk's knees were shot.
He's a shell of his former self- Jeff Green is improving with every game.

Now if I could take a pre-injury Perkins vs the current Jeff Green, then it would be a close call.

Perk is simply cooked.
People seem to think if he came up to the Celtics it would be like old times again.
Unfortunately father time can't change his injury situation.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 04, 2013, 03:21:41 AM
Quote
Perk is very good at mucking up the paint at both ends.  I'll take that over Green's uneven, wimpy play in his 23 mediocre minutes a game.  There are plenty of guys who can give you 9.8 points off the bench in 8.6 shots shooting 42%, while barely rebounding or assisting.  There aren't a lot of guys who can do what Perk does, which is defend the post one on one, box out, and provide a consistently physical presence at both ends of the court.   


Did you watch Perk last year in the Finals? Did he muck up or be a consistently physical presence at all? And are you under the opinion that the Celtics couldn't find plenty of guys that will give you 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.?

I started my post by saying I watched almost every OKC game this season.  That's a pretty good indicator that I watched them when they made the Finals.

Perk was playing the final three rounds of the 2012 playoffs with a partially torn groin.  Instead of getting credit for gutting out the playoffs with a serious  injury, he gets derision for not playing better.

 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--okc-s-kendrick-perkins-played-with-injury-throughout-playoffs.html

Perkins seems to be moving around pretty well this season> Perkins detractors seem to think he gimps around the court with a cane or something.  I wonder how many detractors actually watch a lot of OKC games.  Perk does their what he did in Boston - set picks, play defense, box out, and muck up the paint.  If you don't think Boston needs that kind of player, you don't understand NBA basketball.

I also don't think Perkins' $8.3m is too outlandish a contract.  The deal does look a little gristly in it's final year, but that's the case with most players on their third contract.  Moving Perk without a certain replacement, for a backup SF, was a mistake. 

Maybe when OKC is in possession of the Larry O'Brien Trophy the Perkins detractors will finally give him his due. He's an essential cog on a team with two superstar players, one emerging uberfreak big, and a bunch of solid role players.  Perkins is an acknowledged leader of that team, and should get some credit for that.

Basketball is a very synergistic game.  Perkins, and to a lesser extend, TA, BBD and Powe, were important role players on the Celtics, guys who were very tough, who played hard all the time.  When teams played the Celtics, they new they were going to be in for both a physical battle and an offensive barrage.  This year's team is as soft as tissue paper, and shows no toughmindedness or toughness.

At the beginning of the KG era, the Celtics bigs would put the opposition through a meat grinder nightly.  KG and Perk were very physical, and when they sat, Powe and BBD would come in and throw their bodies around. This allowed the Cs to battle teams with solid bigs, like Detroit and LA. 

The Cs have nothing but an aged KG and an inexperienced, undersized Sullinger as real paint players now.  It's a fatal flaw on this team.     
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: chambers on January 04, 2013, 04:07:19 AM
Quote
Perk is very good at mucking up the paint at both ends.  I'll take that over Green's uneven, wimpy play in his 23 mediocre minutes a game.  There are plenty of guys who can give you 9.8 points off the bench in 8.6 shots shooting 42%, while barely rebounding or assisting.  There aren't a lot of guys who can do what Perk does, which is defend the post one on one, box out, and provide a consistently physical presence at both ends of the court.   


Did you watch Perk last year in the Finals? Did he muck up or be a consistently physical presence at all? And are you under the opinion that the Celtics couldn't find plenty of guys that will give you 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.?

I started my post by saying I watched almost every OKC game this season.  That's a pretty good indicator that I watched them when they made the Finals.

Perk was playing the final three rounds of the 2012 playoffs with a partially torn groin.  Instead of getting credit for gutting out the playoffs with a serious  injury, he gets derision for not playing better.

 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--okc-s-kendrick-perkins-played-with-injury-throughout-playoffs.html

Perkins seems to be moving around pretty well this season> Perkins detractors seem to think he gimps around the court with a cane or something.  I wonder how many detractors actually watch a lot of OKC games.  Perk does their what he did in Boston - set picks, play defense, box out, and muck up the paint.  If you don't think Boston needs that kind of player, you don't understand NBA basketball.

I also don't think Perkins' $8.3m is too outlandish a contract.  The deal does look a little gristly in it's final year, but that's the case with most players on their third contract.  Moving Perk without a certain replacement, for a backup SF, was a mistake. 

Maybe when OKC is in possession of the Larry O'Brien Trophy the Perkins detractors will finally give him his due. He's an essential cog on a team with two superstar players, one emerging uberfreak big, and a bunch of solid role players.  Perkins is an acknowledged leader of that team, and should get some credit for that.

Basketball is a very synergistic game.  Perkins, and to a lesser extend, TA, BBD and Powe, were important role players on the Celtics, guys who were very tough, who played hard all the time.  When teams played the Celtics, they new they were going to be in for both a physical battle and an offensive barrage.  This year's team is as soft as tissue paper, and shows no toughmindedness or toughness.

At the beginning of the KG era, the Celtics bigs would put the opposition through a meat grinder nightly.  KG and Perk were very physical, and when they sat, Powe and BBD would come in and throw their bodies around. This allowed the Cs to battle teams with solid bigs, like Detroit and LA. 

The Cs have nothing but an aged KG and an inexperienced, undersized Sullinger as real paint players now.  It's a fatal flaw on this team.     

Unfortunately post injury, Perkins is the caliber of a bench big man. He's the only thing they've got so they go with him or Collison. His minutes have steadily gone down as the year progresses.

All of things above in your post that I bolded, are great qualities, and I won't argue with them. But this team needs more than that. Jermaine Oneal on one leg was more productive than Perk was last year. Heck, we should go get JO from Phoenix now his knees are fixed. Perks PER is under 9, JO's is 19 this season while being paid 854,000 dollars.

Perks knees have ruined his career and they'll probably be the reason why the thunder won't win a championship.
Intangibles are great but for 9 million a year a starting center should be rebounding, blocking shots and at least catching the ball. He's just pathetic at times.
While Jeff Green hasn't been the brightest spark or lived up to expectations, there's obviously room for potential as time goes on- he's 26 and recovering. Perk is already falling and crashing from his ceiling.
He can't rebound, he can't block shots, his hands and footwork are terrible and he has no life. You're talking about him boxing out but that's not post injury Perk, look at his rebounding numbers and the +/- of the Thunder when he's on the floor.

As I said earlier, Perkins before his injuries was amazing.
Pure grit and balls. Unfortunately we got something before he walked away because no way was Danny paying him 9 million.
Can you imagine if Perk were on 9 million now on this team?
That would be an EPIC FAIL. If you think Jeff Green on 9 million is bad, what about Perk with his 8.71 PER, 5.5 rebounds and 4.5 points.


Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Who on January 04, 2013, 04:47:45 AM
Not really anything to do with the topic. More of an aside.

I think Perk needs to remain as a starter for his team to get good value out of him. As a power based (slow footed) defensive center, I think Perk's defensive skill-set is largely wasted coming off the bench. He needs to be matched up against the type of players you find in starting lineups rather than against bench players. If matched up against bench players, he'd lose a lot of his defensive value as a man-to-man defender.

So I think Perk needs to stay in the starting lineup. I think any calls to remove him from it would harm OKC more than help them. Oklahoma should continue to start Perk but consider him a low minute starter (20-24mpg) and be prepared to adjust his minutes accordingly when facing a power based big man (28-32mpg) or more of a quick footed / perimeter bigs (15-20mpg).

I would only move Perk to the bench in a playoff series (not regular season) where the matchups were really against him. Like in the Finals against Chris Bosh and the Miami Heat. I think Perk is fine against Miami if they continue to start Udonis Haslem instead of Shane Battier. Otherwise, Nick Collison should get the nod. A quick footed defensive center who can better matchup against a big like Bosh + play help defense away from the basket. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: relja on January 04, 2013, 05:33:30 AM
Quote
Perk is very good at mucking up the paint at both ends.  I'll take that over Green's uneven, wimpy play in his 23 mediocre minutes a game.  There are plenty of guys who can give you 9.8 points off the bench in 8.6 shots shooting 42%, while barely rebounding or assisting.  There aren't a lot of guys who can do what Perk does, which is defend the post one on one, box out, and provide a consistently physical presence at both ends of the court.   

Did you watch Perk last year in the Finals? Did he muck up or be a consistently physical presence at all? And are you under the opinion that the Celtics couldn't find plenty of guys that will give you 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.?

Oh we can find a guy who averages 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.? Then why in the world are we starting a guy who averages 0 and 2 and 5-6 fouls?
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Who on January 04, 2013, 05:48:13 AM
Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: alajet on January 04, 2013, 05:52:03 AM
Quote
Perk is very good at mucking up the paint at both ends.  I'll take that over Green's uneven, wimpy play in his 23 mediocre minutes a game.  There are plenty of guys who can give you 9.8 points off the bench in 8.6 shots shooting 42%, while barely rebounding or assisting.  There aren't a lot of guys who can do what Perk does, which is defend the post one on one, box out, and provide a consistently physical presence at both ends of the court.   

Did you watch Perk last year in the Finals? Did he muck up or be a consistently physical presence at all? And are you under the opinion that the Celtics couldn't find plenty of guys that will give you 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.?

Oh we can find a guy who averages 4 and 5 on 47 percent shooting, while barely rebounding, assisting, blocking shots, etc.? Then why in the world are we starting a guy who averages 0 and 2 and 5-6 fouls?

That still doesn't justify his gargantuan contract.
Though, in a way, we could argue if Jeff Green is playing worthy of his very similar contract, as well.

Here are Perkins' plus-minus stats for last season's play-off run.
It looks like it has been an inconsistent journey.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=perkike01&match=game&output=total&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=perkike01&match=game&output=total&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts)
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: chambers on January 04, 2013, 06:01:04 AM
Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mctyson on January 04, 2013, 06:19:19 AM
Perkins is way worse now than he was when he was in Boston, and he wasn't very good then. 

No.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: greenhead85 on January 04, 2013, 06:44:52 AM
No.

Jeff Green is making a great contribution to this current team. Plus, we have yet to watch the REAL Jeff Green. Perk is still unable to do a major contribution to his current team's play.

Honestly, I'd take in Eddy Curry over him from this day onward. A legit 7-footer who can really ball and bump onto other bigs like Perk does.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: crimson_stallion on January 04, 2013, 07:42:36 AM
No, I wouldn't.

I think there are better players out there then Perk with way smaller contacts, and I think that Jeff Green's double figure scoring off the bench (plus having a backup for Paul Pierce) is more important to us then Perk would be.

I'd rather Dalembert or Brendan Haywood, both of whome can be had for cheap and would give us at least as much as Perk would.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: wdleehi on January 04, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Perk



Then the Celtics could have just resign Pietrus to backup Pierce again this season. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CoachBo on January 04, 2013, 09:49:29 AM
NO chance.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Roy H. on January 04, 2013, 09:50:43 AM
Jeff Green is making a great contribution to this current team.

That's overstating things a little, I think.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: xmuscularghandix on January 04, 2013, 09:51:44 AM
Not a chance.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 04, 2013, 10:03:29 AM
Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.

Duncan went 40 for 91 that series.  That isn't killing.  Duncan had his way with Perk in Game 5, but in the rest of the OKC wins, SA was badly outscored when Duncan was on the court.  Perk also matched Duncan minute for minute the entire series. You make it sound like OKC ran Duncan out of the building when Perk was sitting.  Strangely, Perk really neutralized Duncan in the two SA wins, where it took Duncan 26 shots to score 27 points. 

When SA went to going through Duncan more, their offense slowed.  OKC's offense ramped up, and they did a better job closing up on the perimeter, and that's why they won.  While Duncan plodding his way in the post, and was shooting and missing FTs (21-36), OKC was fast breaking and banging threes.

Do you really think that Ibaka doesn't benefit from playing next to a physical, wide-bodied center? Guys with builds like Ibaka and KG, who use jumping ability and timing instead of boxing out technique, need a physical center to seal off the opposing big for them to board well.  Look how putrid the Cs rebounding, and  KG's rebounding numbers have been, since Perk was traded.  Cs last or near last in most rebounding categories, after being in the top 1/3 of the league in 08.     
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 04, 2013, 10:24:36 AM
Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.

Duncan went 40 for 91 that series.  That isn't killing.  Duncan had his way with Perk in Game 5, but in the rest of the OKC wins, SA was badly outscored when Duncan was on the court.  Perk also matched Duncan minute for minute the entire series. You make it sound like OKC ran Duncan out of the building when Perk was sitting.  Strangely, Perk really neutralized Duncan in the two SA wins, where it took Duncan 26 shots to score 27 points. 

When SA went to going through Duncan more, their offense slowed.  OKC's offense ramped up, and they did a better job closing up on the perimeter, and that's why they won.  While Duncan plodding his way in the post, and was shooting and missing FTs (21-36), OKC was fast breaking and banging threes.

Do you really think that Ibaka doesn't benefit from playing next to a physical, wide-bodied center? Guys with builds like Ibaka and KG, who use jumping ability and timing instead of boxing out technique, need a physical center to seal off the opposing big for them to board well.  Look how putrid the Cs rebounding, and  KG's rebounding numbers have been, since Perk was traded.  Cs last or near last in most rebounding categories, after being in the top 1/3 of the league in 08.     

I don't know about this series bu KG benefitting from Perk? Where do u get that? Is rebounding percentage was better last year than the couple years before. KG had an unbelievable year in general last year. He moved to a position he hasn't played before and played better there than Perk.

I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 04, 2013, 10:30:43 AM
Perk



Then the Celtics could have just resign Pietrus to backup Pierce again this season.

Pietrus is probably injured right now.

He's always injured. He missed 1/3 of the season last year. Not to mention he is a pretty horrific player. 80% of his fg attests last year were threes and he shot them at a terrible rate.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 04, 2013, 10:32:56 AM
Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.

Duncan went 40 for 91 that series.  That isn't killing.  Duncan had his way with Perk in Game 5, but in the rest of the OKC wins, SA was badly outscored when Duncan was on the court.  Perk also matched Duncan minute for minute the entire series. You make it sound like OKC ran Duncan out of the building when Perk was sitting.  Strangely, Perk really neutralized Duncan in the two SA wins, where it took Duncan 26 shots to score 27 points. 

When SA went to going through Duncan more, their offense slowed.  OKC's offense ramped up, and they did a better job closing up on the perimeter, and that's why they won.  While Duncan plodding his way in the post, and was shooting and missing FTs (21-36), OKC was fast breaking and banging threes.

Do you really think that Ibaka doesn't benefit from playing next to a physical, wide-bodied center? Guys with builds like Ibaka and KG, who use jumping ability and timing instead of boxing out technique, need a physical center to seal off the opposing big for them to board well.  Look how putrid the Cs rebounding, and  KG's rebounding numbers have been, since Perk was traded.  Cs last or near last in most rebounding categories, after being in the top 1/3 of the league in 08.     

I don't know about this series bu KG benefitting from Perk? Where do u get that? Is rebounding percentage was better last year than the couple years before. KG had an unbelievable year in general last year. He moved to a position he hasn't played before and played better there than Perk.

I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

If you don't think that KG benefits from playing next to a bonafide big man, whether it be Perk or Shaq, i don't know what I can tell you to change your mind. 

The Cs had success last year with KG at center, but even in the playoffs, they barely squeaked by a callow Philly team without a great center, and played their next two opponents with their all star bigs missing most of the series.

This year, the Cs had to shelve the KG at center line up early in the season, when other teams were banging the offensive glass like crazy. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Roy H. on January 04, 2013, 10:33:40 AM
I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

I think KG looking better in, say, 2012 as opposed to 2010 has a lot to do with his injury completely healing.  In 2010 his play was noticeably affected.

I think what a guy like Perk did for KG was that it allowed him to roam more on defense.  Having a strong defensive center allowed KG to be more aggressive and disruptive.  Coincidentally enough, Perk's presence and Ibaka's move to PF has allowed him to do exactly the same thing, making him a much stronger defensive presence than he was previously.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: MaxAMillion on January 04, 2013, 10:34:05 AM
I would trade Charmin Green for a bag of groceries. $8 million this year for that guy? I would have rather had the corpse named Pietrus than spending big money on softy.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 04, 2013, 10:48:58 AM
I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

I think KG looking better in, say, 2012 as opposed to 2010 has a lot to do with his injury completely healing.  In 2010 his play was noticeably affected.

I think what a guy like Perk did for KG was that it allowed him to roam more on defense.  Having a strong defensive center allowed KG to be more aggressive and disruptive.  Coincidentally enough, Perk's presence and Ibaka's move to PF has allowed him to do exactly the same thing, making him a much stronger defensive presence than he was previously.

KG has been strong no doubt but I agree that Perk allows Garnett to be more aggressive and look for more steals and block shots while roaming. Since Garnett has to control and command so much of the defense he isnt allowed to help as much because he is the anchor of the front court with not much alongside him to trust. Its apparent in the fact that Garnett is averaging less than a block a game (along with the fact he cant jump anymore).
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mgent on January 04, 2013, 10:58:57 AM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.
None of this addresses my point.  I know we traded Perkins after Marquis got hurt, maybe you didn't understand my comment.

Courtney Lee would be replacing Green.
Sasha and Von Wafer would've been replacing Marquis (who isn't as good as Lee to begin with).

Our team simply has less holes than it did that year.  If you forget the injured O'Neals this team is better and deeper.  Wilcox, Bass, and Sullinger is much different than Big Baby and Semih playing with an injury.  Bradley, Lee, and Barbosa vs Delonte, Nate, and Marquis.  The only hole I see is a big that can play defense outside of KG.  Green isn't filling the same need for us as he did in 2010.

And as a side note, I don't think the consensus was or currently is "the right trade at the time."
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: MBunge on January 04, 2013, 11:00:29 AM
Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 04, 2013, 11:07:25 AM
Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 04, 2013, 11:20:27 AM
I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

I think KG looking better in, say, 2012 as opposed to 2010 has a lot to do with his injury completely healing.  In 2010 his play was noticeably affected.

I think what a guy like Perk did for KG was that it allowed him to roam more on defense.  Having a strong defensive center allowed KG to be more aggressive and disruptive.  Coincidentally enough, Perk's presence and Ibaka's move to PF has allowed him to do exactly the same thing, making him a much stronger defensive presence than he was previously.

Well however you want to put it Perk had had little effect on KG playing well. This year our D is bad (the exception not rule) and its more due to the fact that we don't have a competent player to plug next to KG (something tat shouldn't be hard to do) not LG missing Perk.

Is there any evidence of KG being more disruptive with Perk than without or him being a better defensive player?

Has Perk dropped off at all? Id say yes. Would youthe be willing to betpart on anthe upward or downwardto trend? Id betsay the ladder.

He also barely plays half the game with 25 min a game. Why is that? At least if you have a supposed good (is that what Perk is?) Starting center you should be getting more minutes out there unless he actually doesn't help that much, doesn't have the endurance, or can't stay out of foul trouble.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: MBunge on January 04, 2013, 11:38:37 AM
Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs.

In that regular season, Krstic started 20 of the 24 games he played with Boston, shooting 53% and averaging 9.1 points and 5.3 rebounds in 23 minutes a game.

That same season, Big Baby started just 13 games out of the whole year, shooting 45% and averaging 11.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.

I'm not saying Krstic would have been a difference maker or denying that he wasn't a great defender, but he was certainly good enough to play.  Doc's totally arbitrary decision to sit him and play Baby, even while Baby stunk up the court for basically the entire playoffs, had nothing to do with Krstic as a player.

Mike
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 04, 2013, 11:42:02 AM
He also barely plays half the game with 25 min a game. Why is that? At least if you have a supposed good (is that what Perk is?) Starting center you should be getting more minutes out there unless he actually doesn't help that much, doesn't have the endurance, or can't stay out of foul trouble.

Perk has always played around 25 minutes per game.  He does't foul all that much, one every 10 minutes.  His 25 minutes seem to be working for OKC, because they've won 80% of their games since trading for Perkins.  Ibaka only plays 29 mpg, and averages 25mpg for his career.  That's OKC's philosophy, for their bigs to play short minutes, not get a lot of shots, and to concentrate more on boxing out and letting the littles snare rebounds (KD, Westbrooks, Martin and Thabo get the same amount of rebounds per game as the four bigs).

It's different, but it obviously works for OKC.   
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: TripleOT on January 04, 2013, 11:50:30 AM
Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs.

In that regular season, Krstic started 20 of the 24 games he played with Boston, shooting 53% and averaging 9.1 points and 5.3 rebounds in 23 minutes a game.

That same season, Big Baby started just 13 games out of the whole year, shooting 45% and averaging 11.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.

I'm not saying Krstic would have been a difference maker or denying that he wasn't a great defender, but he was certainly good enough to play.  Doc's totally arbitrary decision to sit him and play Baby, even while Baby stunk up the court for basically the entire playoffs, had nothing to do with Krstic as a player.

Mike

IIRC, Krstic played like a scared kitten in the playoffs in the minutes he did get.  Boston swept the Knicks, who were playing small, so BBD was a more logical choice.  The Heat played small too.  I guess one could argue that the Cs should have tried to play big against the Heat, but I don't see JO and Krstic as the kind of high usage centers that could make the Heat play defensively for going small.   
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: MBunge on January 04, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs.

In that regular season, Krstic started 20 of the 24 games he played with Boston, shooting 53% and averaging 9.1 points and 5.3 rebounds in 23 minutes a game.

That same season, Big Baby started just 13 games out of the whole year, shooting 45% and averaging 11.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.

I'm not saying Krstic would have been a difference maker or denying that he wasn't a great defender, but he was certainly good enough to play.  Doc's totally arbitrary decision to sit him and play Baby, even while Baby stunk up the court for basically the entire playoffs, had nothing to do with Krstic as a player.

Mike

IIRC, Krstic played like a scared kitten in the playoffs in the minutes he did get.  Boston swept the Knicks, who were playing small, so BBD was a more logical choice.  The Heat played small too.  I guess one could argue that the Cs should have tried to play big against the Heat, but I don't see JO and Krstic as the kind of high usage centers that could make the Heat play defensively for going small.

Krstic only played 5 and 3 minutes in the two Knick games that were close, then played 6 and 11 in the first two games against Miami, then 16 minutes in final game.  So I guess Doc decided that he needed to play the "scared kitten" the most against the better team and when it was win or go home?

Or, and in the playoffs the year before with the Thunder?

Krstic - 21.5 minutes, 7.2 points, 5.8 rebounds.

And how did Big Baby produce while Krstic was left on the bench in the playoffs for Boston?

Baby - 21.2 minutes, 4.9 points, 3.6 rebounds.

Again, was Krstic going to be the difference on winning a title that year? Probably not.  But his lack of playing time in the playoffs had NOTHING to do with his production and EVERYTHING to do with Doc just making a coaching decision.

Mike
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mgent on January 04, 2013, 12:19:18 PM
Guys, Krstic was still injured in the playoffs.  He missed a couple games with I think a knee or meniscus injury, Doc said in an interview he was still hurting and that's why he wasn't playing normal minutes (1/3 of what he averaged in the regular season).

Between JO and Krstic playing with injury and Shaq unable to play with injury, Doc was pretty much forced to play Baby those minutes (he was already going small with Green).
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: LB3533 on January 04, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
With Rondo hurt, we weren't going to win against Miami or another other team, Perk or no Perk.

If the goal is for nostalgic reasons, sure let's trade Jeff Green for Perk.

If the goal is to move forward with the franchise, you make the trade for the younger more athletic (and injury free at the time) player....every time!

 
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mmmmm on January 04, 2013, 12:49:58 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.
None of this addresses my point.  I know we traded Perkins after Marquis got hurt, maybe you didn't understand my comment.

Courtney Lee would be replacing Green.
Sasha and Von Wafer would've been replacing Marquis (who isn't as good as Lee to begin with).

Our team simply has less holes than it did that year.  If you forget the injured O'Neals this team is better and deeper.  Wilcox, Bass, and Sullinger is much different than Big Baby and Semih playing with an injury.  Bradley, Lee, and Barbosa vs Delonte, Nate, and Marquis.  The only hole I see is a big that can play defense outside of KG.  Green isn't filling the same need for us as he did in 2010.

And as a side note, I don't think the consensus was or currently is "the right trade at the time."

Your premise seems to include us having Sullinger in the absence of the trade.  I'm not 100% certain that would be so.  We were able to take both Sully and Fab using the pick we got in the trade along with Green.

Also, in the absence of the trade, our draft position probably changes - up or down, is of course arguable.

Absence of the trade, of course, there is little chance Perk is still here anyway.  He was headed for free agency and OKC or someone would have probably paid him that big contract that Danny was never going to match anyway.

Also, Green was acquired to back up Pierce within the context of the EC - where he needs to defend Lebron and Carmelo.  Lee can't defend those guys.  Way too small.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 04, 2013, 12:54:46 PM
I find the perk bashers quite honestly comical...you sound like the Celtics haters talking about perk while he was here..totally clueless as to what he brings to a team, sorry but he hadn't dropped off as much as you make it seem, is incredibly vital to the thunder making it back to the finals...love green the person but he's flat out not good, we would be better off with Perkins period end of story
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 04, 2013, 01:05:20 PM
Quote
I find the perk bashers quite honestly comical...you sound like the Celtics haters talking about perk while he was here..totally clueless as to what he brings to a team, sorry but he hadn't dropped off as much as you make it seem, is incredibly vital to the thunder making it back to the finals...love green the person but he's flat out not good, we would be better off with Perkins period end of story

Statistically it can be proven he has declined.   Look at his stats,   But his blocks and RPG are down.  He only plays 23 MPG and his FG percentage is down.

4.4 PPG .47% and 5.5 RPG and 1 BPG is not what I would call vital.   This isn't bashing Perk these are his stats.   He has declined and is not the same player.  I get some of you guys loved him but he is not the same player.  He gets 3 less RPG and 1 less BPG than Perk in his prime.   If you think this is comical or I find it comial that is sad.   He is a guy in decline who has had multiple injuries.   I find that sad.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/career_stats.html

We would be fools to trade Green for him now.  Green is  more productive.

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny by any chance?
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 04, 2013, 01:09:49 PM
Quote
I find the perk bashers quite honestly comical...you sound like the Celtics haters talking about perk while he was here..totally clueless as to what he brings to a team, sorry but he hadn't dropped off as much as you make it seem, is incredibly vital to the thunder making it back to the finals...love green the person but he's flat out not good, we would be better off with Perkins period end of story

Statistically it can be proven he a has declined.   Look at his stats,   But his blocks and RPG are down.  He only plays 23 MPG and his FG percentage is down.

4.4 PPG .47% and 5.5 RPG and 1 BPG is not what I would call vital.   This isn't bashing Perk these are his stats.   He has declined and is not the same player.  I get some of you guys loved him but he is not the same player.  He gets 3 less RPG and 1 less BPG than Perk in his prime.   If you think this is comical or I find it comial that is sad.   He is a guy in decline who has had multiple injuries.   I find that sad.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/career_stats.html

We would be fools to trade Green for him now.  Green is  more productive.

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny by any chance?

Do you believe Jeff green is a good basketball player? I for one would rather believe in the Easter bunny and have a force in the paint and the entire team plays more tough because of...quite honestly don't care about your numbers, thunder are going nowhere in the playoffs if Perkins doesn't get healthy and defend the Howards, Randolphs and duncans of the world...lol@Jeff green doing anything close to that valuable
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 04, 2013, 01:37:39 PM
I find the perk bashers quite honestly comical...you sound like the Celtics haters talking about perk while he was here..totally clueless as to what he brings to a team, sorry but he hadn't dropped off as much as you make it seem, is incredibly vital to the thunder making it back to the finals...love green the person but he's flat out not good, we would be better off with Perkins period end of story

Part of the reason may be that when Perk was injured we were still one of the best teams and defenses in the league without Perk and starting and75 either a 75 year old shaq, 65 year old JO, or 22to year old Semih Erden.

I swear Perk must be the greatest intangibles guy ever to play the game according to perk cheerleaders. Cause if he's not what the hell us does he do? He must be the greatest enforcer, intimidator, scowler, teammate, pick setter, space eater, communicator seriously what else is he awesome at? Okay he's a good defender at best and can haul down 5 boards a game (because he's busy making room for other guys to grab rebounds)

Greatest intangible guys of all time:
1.perk
2.Scal
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 04, 2013, 01:41:39 PM
Quote
I find the perk bashers quite honestly comical...you sound like the Celtics haters talking about perk while he was here..totally clueless as to what he brings to a team, sorry but he hadn't dropped off as much as you make it seem, is incredibly vital to the thunder making it back to the finals...love green the person but he's flat out not good, we would be better off with Perkins period end of story

Statistically it can be proven he a has declined.   Look at his stats,   But his blocks and RPG are down.  He only plays 23 MPG and his FG percentage is down.

4.4 PPG .47% and 5.5 RPG and 1 BPG is not what I would call vital.   This isn't bashing Perk these are his stats.   He has declined and is not the same player.  I get some of you guys loved him but he is not the same player.  He gets 3 less RPG and 1 less BPG than Perk in his prime.   If you think this is comical or I find it comial that is sad.   He is a guy in decline who has had multiple injuries.   I find that sad.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/career_stats.html

We would be fools to trade Green for him now.  Green is  more productive.

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny by any chance?

Do you believe Jeff green is a good basketball player? I for one would rather believe in the Easter bunny and have a force in the paint and the entire team plays more tough because of...quite honestly don't care about your numbers, thunder are going nowhere in the playoffs if Perkins doesn't get healthy and defend the Howards, Randolphs and duncans of the world...lol@Jeff green doing anything close to that valuable

Haha perkins defending Randolph, that's cute
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CelticG1 on January 04, 2013, 01:58:26 PM
He also barely plays half the game with 25 min a game. Why is that? At least if you have a supposed good (is that what Perk is?) Starting center you should be getting more minutes out there unless he actually doesn't help that much, doesn't have the endurance, or can't stay out of foul trouble.

Perk has always played around 25 minutes per game.  He does't foul all that much, one every 10 minutes.  His 25 minutes seem to be working for OKC, because they've won 80% of their games since trading for Perkins.  Ibaka only plays 29 mpg, and averages 25mpg for his career.  That's OKC's philosophy, for their bigs to play short minutes, not get a lot of shots, and to concentrate more on boxing out and letting the littles snare rebounds (KD, Westbrooks, Martin and Thabo get the same amount of rebounds per game as the four bigs).

It's different, but it obviously works for OKC.   

Ha yeah, playing Perk less does seem to be working out for them pretty well

For the record Perk has never averaged 30 minutes a game in his career. That says more than a lot of people want to admit.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mgent on January 04, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.
None of this addresses my point.  I know we traded Perkins after Marquis got hurt, maybe you didn't understand my comment.

Courtney Lee would be replacing Green.
Sasha and Von Wafer would've been replacing Marquis (who isn't as good as Lee to begin with).

Our team simply has less holes than it did that year.  If you forget the injured O'Neals this team is better and deeper.  Wilcox, Bass, and Sullinger is much different than Big Baby and Semih playing with an injury.  Bradley, Lee, and Barbosa vs Delonte, Nate, and Marquis.  The only hole I see is a big that can play defense outside of KG.  Green isn't filling the same need for us as he did in 2010.

And as a side note, I don't think the consensus was or currently is "the right trade at the time."

Your premise seems to include us having Sullinger in the absence of the trade.  I'm not 100% certain that would be so.  We were able to take both Sully and Fab using the pick we got in the trade along with Green.

Also, in the absence of the trade, our draft position probably changes - up or down, is of course arguable.

Absence of the trade, of course, there is little chance Perk is still here anyway.  He was headed for free agency and OKC or someone would have probably paid him that big contract that Danny was never going to match anyway.

Also, Green was acquired to back up Pierce within the context of the EC - where he needs to defend Lebron and Carmelo.  Lee can't defend those guys.  Way too small.
1.  I think it's clear the Celtics would have taken Sullinger over Melo, especially for a win now team in need of big man help.

2.  Why is the draft in question?  He's talking about a new Green for Perkins trade.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: CoachBo on January 04, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
If Ainge agreed to pay Perkins $9 million a year for those miniscule production numbers, he should have been fired.

Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: OsirusCeltics on January 04, 2013, 02:58:14 PM
I'll still want to trade for Jeff Green in a NY minute
Jeff Green is just a better player

I wouldn't mind keeping Perkins, but he felt he was more of what he was worth, which made me feel sour towards him. A guy with horrible footwork, below-average offensive skills, average rebounder, hardly a shot blocker, asking for 8 million a year? I thank my lucky stars Ainge didn't agree to that contract

Reminds me alot of Ben Wallace (Even though he's way better than Perk). He won a title wit the 2004 Piston team, thought he was worth more, signed a $50 million contract with the Bulls, and struggled mightily. Wasn't as good a player when he didn't have his talented teammates with him
Its the going rate for Centers at the time and even now isnt it?

True, just glad Danny didn't succumb to the going rate. Theres plenty of centers in the league that can do the same things as Perk who are way cheaper
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Scribbles on January 04, 2013, 03:29:35 PM
I'll still want to trade for Jeff Green in a NY minute
Jeff Green is just a better player

I wouldn't mind keeping Perkins, but he felt he was more of what he was worth, which made me feel sour towards him. A guy with horrible footwork, below-average offensive skills, average rebounder, hardly a shot blocker, asking for 8 million a year? I thank my lucky stars Ainge didn't agree to that contract

Reminds me alot of Ben Wallace (Even though he's way better than Perk). He won a title wit the 2004 Piston team, thought he was worth more, signed a $50 million contract with the Bulls, and struggled mightily. Wasn't as good a player when he didn't have his talented teammates with him
Its the going rate for Centers at the time and even now isnt it?

True, just glad Danny didn't succumb to the going rate. Theres plenty of centers in the league that can do the same things as Perk who are way cheaper

And there are plenty of small forwards in the league that can do the same things as Green who are way cheaper as well.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 04, 2013, 03:43:58 PM
Quote
Greatest intangible guys of all time:
1.perk
2.Scal

You must be under 30?

Bird had a zillion more intangibles than these guys.   He made every team mate better when he was on the floor.   Perk and Scal play with heart but I think your confusing that with intangibles.   I like both Perk and Scal but this is not true.

Quote
Do you believe Jeff green is a good basketball player? I for one would rather believe in the Easter bunny and have a force in the paint and the entire team plays more tough because of...quite honestly don't care about your numbers, thunder are going nowhere in the playoffs if Perkins doesn't get healthy and defend the Howards, Randolphs and duncans of the world...lol@Jeff green doing anything close to that valuable

I don't think Green is that good and I hope he is traded.   But I grew up on farms and I can spot a wounded animal that needs put out to the field and not pulling the cart anymore.   Perk is like a horse that is wounded ( of course he is human and he is not going to be put down nor would I endorse it).  and his working days are over.

Does this look like the old Perk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbyOevVAYQI

Perk is 6'10" and his head doesn't even get above the net.   HE IS DONE!

Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mctyson on January 04, 2013, 04:38:01 PM
I find the perk bashers quite honestly comical...you sound like the Celtics haters talking about perk while he was here..totally clueless as to what he brings to a team, sorry but he hadn't dropped off as much as you make it seem, is incredibly vital to the thunder making it back to the finals...love green the person but he's flat out not good, we would be better off with Perkins period end of story

Danny traded him.  Doc approved of it.  And I am sure it was run by a couple more people as well.

I trust them ++++++ more than you.
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mctyson on January 04, 2013, 04:40:28 PM
If Ainge agreed to pay Perkins $9 million a year for those miniscule production numbers, he should have been fired.

I was reading an interesting article the other day about how Scott Brooks is basically playing Perkins just for his knowledge and "intangibles," because he is a really stubborn coach who gets loyal to guys and sticks with them (sound like someone we know?).

Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: eugen on January 04, 2013, 04:52:28 PM
Yrade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins ? This can happen if Danny will become GM of OKC
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: mmmmm on January 04, 2013, 05:26:29 PM
Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.
None of this addresses my point.  I know we traded Perkins after Marquis got hurt, maybe you didn't understand my comment.

Courtney Lee would be replacing Green.
Sasha and Von Wafer would've been replacing Marquis (who isn't as good as Lee to begin with).

Our team simply has less holes than it did that year.  If you forget the injured O'Neals this team is better and deeper.  Wilcox, Bass, and Sullinger is much different than Big Baby and Semih playing with an injury.  Bradley, Lee, and Barbosa vs Delonte, Nate, and Marquis.  The only hole I see is a big that can play defense outside of KG.  Green isn't filling the same need for us as he did in 2010.

And as a side note, I don't think the consensus was or currently is "the right trade at the time."

Your premise seems to include us having Sullinger in the absence of the trade.  I'm not 100% certain that would be so.  We were able to take both Sully and Fab using the pick we got in the trade along with Green.

Also, in the absence of the trade, our draft position probably changes - up or down, is of course arguable.

Absence of the trade, of course, there is little chance Perk is still here anyway.  He was headed for free agency and OKC or someone would have probably paid him that big contract that Danny was never going to match anyway.

Also, Green was acquired to back up Pierce within the context of the EC - where he needs to defend Lebron and Carmelo.  Lee can't defend those guys.  Way too small.
1.  I think it's clear the Celtics would have taken Sullinger over Melo, especially for a win now team in need of big man help.

2.  Why is the draft in question?  He's talking about a new Green for Perkins trade.

Ah, sorry - I jumped in late and assumed this was yet another "I wish we'd never done that trade!" thread.

My bad.

In that case, no way.  Green, even while still getting minimal usage, is still being way more productive in his minutes than Perkins is with his.   And he still has recovery upside.  His knees, arms, back, etc. are all sound, with no injury history and he should get better over time as he gets further from the heart surgery.  People forget that he basically had to restart from scratch with basic things like just walking less than a year ago. 

I don't like when people bash Perk, and I have posted many times arguing that he was, indeed very valuable for us before his injury in the 2010 finals.  But I don't see the same player anymore.

Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 04, 2013, 08:00:41 PM
Wasn't the trade:

Perkins and Nate for Jeff Green, Nenad and the pick that turned into Jared Sullinger?

I would make that trade every day of the week and twice on Sundays

Jeff Green has the talent and if/when he pulls it together his production will dwarf that of Perkins for years to come.

Sullinger's production will also dwarf Perkins production for years to come.

Perkins was one of my all time favorite Celtics but I don't the problem was that we traded him, the problem to me is that we didn't go all out to add guys like Reggie Evans and another 6'11" to 7 foot bully once he was traded...

Decent odds say we would have one the titel in 2010 had Perkins not gone down and again in 2012 had Shaq and then Rondo not gone down - we had some really bad luck.

I also don't understand why we didn't go all out to get a another big body like an Aaron Smith, Dalembert, etc - there have been a number of guys available that made sense to me that we never sniffed once Perkins was gone.

This team just needs a hack bruiser at center to win and a bulldog PF like a Reggie Evans type. We have all the speed and scoring athleticism we need elsewhere - we're not clicking yet because we're missing the muscle in the middle.

I think Jeff Green and Sullinger are a good return for Perkins.
   
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: eja117 on January 04, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
I would probably trade Green for any competent center if I thought Doc would play him
Title: Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on January 04, 2013, 08:54:40 PM
no way
we need Scalabrine
i will put money on it
he would make us better
his ballin IQ is off the charts
thats what these young bucks need!