CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Q_FBE on January 01, 2013, 12:41:14 AM
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There biggest immediate need is a fresh start. Simply put the 2012 portion of this season was a disaster puntuated by the California catastrophe. The psyche of the team appears to be severely damaged. This discouragement has led to poor efforts when things go badly. They have to fight very hard and this team simply is not interested in fighting for victories.
Technically, they have deficiencies in critical attributes of physical size, strength, and speed. So there is only two things that work to their advantage: smarts amd compwtitive heart. Both were on full display for a while last spring and the result was nearly a series victory over the Heat and a trip to the NBA finals.
So Danny and Doc brought back Pierce and KG along with Rondo. But they lost Ray Allen and so far do not have Avery Bradley. Even with Avery Bradley, this team lacks the talent to xompete for an NBA title. We need to build a team with our 2014 starters of Rondo Bradley Jeff Green Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo.
I would not be opposed to Doc going young and Danny trading off hia veteran role players for cap filler and draft picks. This year is lost in my opinion and we should build the next great Celtic team. The only problem I see is that Rondo will sour if KG and or Pierve were traded. Is trading Rondo 1st a possibility?
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i refuse to believe that the season is a loss until it is mathematically impossible for us to make playoffs. Until the time happens im gonna believe and hope that this team can turn it around. I wouldnt really want to up vets for picks this year, Pretty sure the draft doesnt look fantastic
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i refuse to believe that the season is a loss until it is mathematically impossible for us to make playoffs. Until the time happens im gonna believe and hope that this team can turn it around. I wouldnt really want to up vets for picks this year, Pretty sure the draft doesnt look fantastic
That is fine but the expectations are lowered.
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So Danny and Doc brought back Pierce and KG along with Rondo. But they lost Ray Allen and so far do not have Avery Bradley. Even with Avery Bradley, this team lacks the talent to xompete for an NBA title. We need to build a team with our 2014 starters of Rondo Bradley Jeff Green Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo.
This is simply not true. We have 4 of the 5 starters from last years team that nearly made the NBA Finals. Yes, the team that nearly slayed the almighty Miami Heat.
This team has plenty of talent. It lacks a few key components so far. AB coming back is huge...the defense will improve immediately. Rondo hopefully will benefit from AB being there as well since they had ridiculous chemistry last year.
Sullinger has proven his worth so far this year. He is a better player than Bass, and should get most of his minutes. Jeff Green should get the rest at the 4. Bass must accept a reduced role. I say this as someone who likes Bass' game and thought he was awesome for us last year. But I think Bass is redundant and should be moved with Courtney Lee and Melo or draft picks for a youngish-veteran PF or C who can defend and rebound.
The team is fine talent wise.
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So Danny and Doc brought back Pierce and KG along with Rondo. But they lost Ray Allen and so far do not have Avery Bradley. Even with Avery Bradley, this team lacks the talent to xompete for an NBA title. We need to build a team with our 2014 starters of Rondo Bradley Jeff Green Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo.
This is simply not true. We have 4 of the 5 starters from last years team that nearly made the NBA Finals. Yes, the team that nearly slayed the almighty Miami Heat.
This team has plenty of talent. It lacks a few key components so far. AB coming back is huge...the defense will improve immediately. Rondo hopefully will benefit from AB being there as well since they had ridiculous chemistry last year.
Sullinger has proven his worth so far this year. He is a better player than Bass, and should get most of his minutes. Jeff Green should get the rest at the 4. Bass must accept a reduced role. I say this as someone who likes Bass' game and thought he was awesome for us last year. But I think Bass is redundant and should be moved with Courtney Lee and Melo or draft picks for a youngish-veteran PF or C who can defend and rebound.
The team is fine talent wise.
Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
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IMHO we should look to add in no particular order:
A long ultra athletic big like Larry Sanders. Must be legit 6-11 minimum with shot blocking skills. Doesnt need to be a long range jumpshooter.
A long and athletic wing/guard that can play multiple positions and shoot moderately well. 15ft jumper would be fine. Must be 6-7+ legit in height.
A tough minded combo guard/ball handler that attacks the basket. Oh wait, we have him ;) Avery Bradley.
A long and tough defensive minded combo forward (legit 6-9) like Tayshawn Prince.
A down and dirty low block player who plays physical defense, carves out space and rebounds. Minimum height 6-10 and can jump.
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IMHO we should look to add in no particular order:
A long ultra athletic big like Larry Sanders. Must be legit 6-11 minimum with shot blocking skills. Doesnt need to be a long range jumpshooter.
A long and athletic wing/guard that can play multiple positions and shoot moderately well. 15ft jumper would be fine. Must be 6-7+ legit in height.
A tough minded combo guard/ball handler that attacks the basket. Oh wait, we have him ;) Avery Bradley.
A long and tough defensive minded combo forward (legit 6-9) like Tayshawn Prince.
A down and dirty low block player who plays physical defense, carves out space and rebounds. Minimum height 6-10 and can jump.
Larry Sanders. Id give a first rounder for him easy.
Terrence Williams. Not s consistent shooter though, also an inch shorter but can play AND defend 3 poisitions.
AB
James Johnson. Swap Green for him and Thompson. I like that.
This one will be tough. I mean we have Sully...
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what do they need? a superstar for starters.......
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what do they need? a superstar for starters.......
They've all been traded and signed or will sign extensions.
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This team needs a [dang] CENTER! They have for the last 2+ seasons.
KG is fine as a fill in (more than fine), but if KG is not free to roam on defense(meaning he needs someone to protect the basket in the meantime) our defense has problems.
This isn't rocket surgery, folks.
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So Danny and Doc brought back Pierce and KG along with Rondo. But they lost Ray Allen and so far do not have Avery Bradley. Even with Avery Bradley, this team lacks the talent to xompete for an NBA title. We need to build a team with our 2014 starters of Rondo Bradley Jeff Green Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo.
This is simply not true. We have 4 of the 5 starters from last years team that nearly made the NBA Finals. Yes, the team that nearly slayed the almighty Miami Heat.
This team has plenty of talent. It lacks a few key components so far. AB coming back is huge...the defense will improve immediately. Rondo hopefully will benefit from AB being there as well since they had ridiculous chemistry last year.
Sullinger has proven his worth so far this year. He is a better player than Bass, and should get most of his minutes. Jeff Green should get the rest at the 4. Bass must accept a reduced role. I say this as someone who likes Bass' game and thought he was awesome for us last year. But I think Bass is redundant and should be moved with Courtney Lee and Melo or draft picks for a youngish-veteran PF or C who can defend and rebound.
The team is fine talent wise.
Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
by the same token though, if Ray allen/Pierce/stiemsma/Pietrus arent hobbled by injuries, we dont lose Bradley/wilcox
it could be a whole different story last year as well...I dont like the "what if game"....we were playing some pretty amazing basketball the 2nd half of the season
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So Danny and Doc brought back Pierce and KG along with Rondo. But they lost Ray Allen and so far do not have Avery Bradley. Even with Avery Bradley, this team lacks the talent to xompete for an NBA title. We need to build a team with our 2014 starters of Rondo Bradley Jeff Green Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo.
This is simply not true. We have 4 of the 5 starters from last years team that nearly made the NBA Finals. Yes, the team that nearly slayed the almighty Miami Heat.
This team has plenty of talent. It lacks a few key components so far. AB coming back is huge...the defense will improve immediately. Rondo hopefully will benefit from AB being there as well since they had ridiculous chemistry last year.
Sullinger has proven his worth so far this year. He is a better player than Bass, and should get most of his minutes. Jeff Green should get the rest at the 4. Bass must accept a reduced role. I say this as someone who likes Bass' game and thought he was awesome for us last year. But I think Bass is redundant and should be moved with Courtney Lee and Melo or draft picks for a youngish-veteran PF or C who can defend and rebound.
The team is fine talent wise.
Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
by the same token though, if Ray allen/Pierce/stiemsma/Pietrus arent hobbled by injuries, we dont lose Bradley/wilcox
it could be a whole different story last year as well...I dont like the "what if game"....we were playing some pretty amazing basketball the 2nd half of the season
They can't take that away, no matter how hard they try. That was a good team that finished the 2011-2012 season in the seventh game of the ECF. Folks can keep making all the excuses they want for the other guys, but that turn around did happen. I saw it. Others saw it.
2011-2012 was a great season in my book. I'd love to have that kind of success again this year (and if we get that kind of success . . . why not just a little . . . bit . . . more . . . ?)
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Here is what the Celtics need in my humble opinion.
1) Avery Bradley to take Lee's minutes and for Lee to play somewhere else. Lee is killing the Celtics by not hitting shots and more importantly, being lost on defense. It seems like every time we need a stop his man gets free back door. And if I see him watch one more long rebound hit the ground while he stands there waiting for someone else to grab it I think I am going to vomit.
2) Rim protection from a 5. This can be a Stiemsma shot blocker type or a tough guy knock you on your butt type.
3) A long athletic 3/4 defender. Someone mentioned Prince and he would be a good prototype for what we need.
Bradley takes care of #1. Then we have two assets of Bass and Lee to get #2 and #3. We might have to go D-League to get one of them or make due without.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JgqKFPlqF7I/Tr4G2l9G4mI/AAAAAAAAAWo/puiLBfJpL8g/s1600/smiling_star-846.gif)
That's what we need.
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A starting center. Period.
And a consistent 20 point scorer.
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Here are three things that I wish the posters here will stop saying
that we are going to flip the switch this year because we almost beat Miami last year.
that Jeff Green can play efectively at the four.
that we could not have used Darko.
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that Jeff Green can play efectively at the four.
I actually want to see more Jeff Green at the four. I don't think Doc has used them there enough or at least hasn't used him properly there enough.
No more of those junk lineups alongside Bass, Sully, Wilcox or Collins at center. Only Kevin Garnett. If KG isn't out there, J.Green shouldn't play PF because none of the other bigs are dynamic enough to make it work well.
I want to see Doc use Jeff Green at the PF alongside the main starters. Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Bradley once he gets back. Green needs a lot more time in this unit. Alongside those four specific players. Not with Terry. The team needs more defense from that SG position when Green goes to the four. It needs to be Bradley (or less preferably C.Lee).
This unit being comfortable together is going to be very important to Boston's post-season chances against Miami and New York because of their preferences for small ball lineups. Jeff Green's ability to matchup defensively + be good scorer offensively is key to matching up against those teams.
It's barely been used so far. I hate that.
It's too important a lineup for Boston in the playoffs for it not to be tested properly + for the players not to be given time alongside one another to find good chemistry within that lineup. It needs to be used a lot more over the next 50 games than it has been in the first 30.
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So Danny and Doc brought back Pierce and KG along with Rondo. But they lost Ray Allen and so far do not have Avery Bradley. Even with Avery Bradley, this team lacks the talent to xompete for an NBA title. We need to build a team with our 2014 starters of Rondo Bradley Jeff Green Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo.
This is simply not true. We have 4 of the 5 starters from last years team that nearly made the NBA Finals. Yes, the team that nearly slayed the almighty Miami Heat.
This team has plenty of talent. It lacks a few key components so far. AB coming back is huge...the defense will improve immediately. Rondo hopefully will benefit from AB being there as well since they had ridiculous chemistry last year.
Sullinger has proven his worth so far this year. He is a better player than Bass, and should get most of his minutes. Jeff Green should get the rest at the 4. Bass must accept a reduced role. I say this as someone who likes Bass' game and thought he was awesome for us last year. But I think Bass is redundant and should be moved with Courtney Lee and Melo or draft picks for a youngish-veteran PF or C who can defend and rebound.
The team is fine talent wise.
Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
You claimed they do not have the talent to complete for a title. Using your logic, half the league should have made the EC Finals for the same reason the Cs did.
The fact that they competed for a title last year proves they have the talent to compete for one. They probably have MORE talent this year. That doesn't mean they will get as far.
Competing and achieving are not equal concepts.
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A starting center. Period.
And a consistent 20 point scorer.
Which could be had in the same body ...
Agree with the above poster about people who think there's any legitimate comparison between this year and last. Look at the roster, count the new faces and then come back and tell me with a straight face that comparison is legitimate.
You can't.
It's going to be rough around here when people realize Bradley isn't going to turn this season around.
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Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year.
Yep.
Our post All Star break record last season was 24-10. The difference between a ~.700 record and a .500 record is 7 wins. 7 wins over a two months span was apparently enough to do a 180 on our narrative and declare Avery Bradley our saviour.
If you beat the Lakers on the first day of regular season, do you go around bragging that your w-l record is 1.000 higher than the Lakersī record?
If you consider the fact that we were one of the few teams who actually had something to fight for (just making the playoffs, the whole project, maybe even legacy), 7 wins over a two month span seems like par for the course.
Now, letīs try to be fair.
If they werenīt as bad as their pre ASB record suggests, and they werenīt as good as their post ASB record suggests, then theyīre roughly a .600 team (just 3-4 w/l removed from either pre or post ASB record), making us effectively, in any given season, around the 10th best team in the league.
Which is exactly what I consider them to be.
Thatīs enough to have an outside shot if the stars align, but not enough to be called serious contenders. Teams like that are supposed to go out in the second round/conference finals.
The thing is, all of this didnīt even scratch the fact that our most important players are 35+ years old, and we have nowhere to go but down.
How any Celtics fan could want this to go on is beyond me.
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that Jeff Green can play efectively at the four.
I actually want to see more Jeff Green at the four. I don't think Doc has used them there enough or at least hasn't used him properly there enough.
No more of those junk lineups alongside Bass, Sully, Wilcox or Collins at center. Only Kevin Garnett. If KG isn't out there, J.Green shouldn't play PF because none of the other bigs are dynamic enough to make it work well.
I want to see Doc use Jeff Green at the PF alongside the main starters. Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Bradley once he gets back. Green needs a lot more time in this unit. Alongside those four specific players. Not with Terry. The team needs more defense from that SG position when Green goes to the four. It needs to be Bradley (or less preferably C.Lee).
This unit being comfortable together is going to be very important to Boston's post-season chances against Miami and New York because of their preferences for small ball lineups. Jeff Green's ability to matchup defensively + be good scorer offensively is key to matching up against those teams.
It's barely been used so far. I hate that.
It's too important a lineup for Boston in the playoffs for it not to be tested properly + for the players not to be given time alongside one another to find good chemistry within that lineup. It needs to be used a lot more over the next 50 games than it has been in the first 30.
you're right. as a small ball unit, that's got to be our best unit (AB required for all lineups that we call our 'best'.... TP.
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I would not be opposed to Doc going young and Danny trading off hia veteran role players for cap filler and draft picks. This year is lost in my opinion and we should build the next great Celtic team. The only problem I see is that Rondo will sour if KG and or Pierve were traded. Is trading Rondo 1st a possibility?
I honestly don't think the returns on trading pierce and Garnett will be worth it right now. This teams best bet is to play to win every game while getting Green, Sully and AB the minutes they need to grow. Fab should be left to develop in the D-league. Danny needs to bring in a center to upgrade collins role as a starter (Dalembert seems most logical). Young players are better developed on winning veteran lead teams.
My hope for this season is we get Ab back, bring in a respectable center, and get sully ever increasing minutes. We will make the playoffs but in doing so we will also have a just out of the lottery draft pick.( This team will be a tough out in the playoffs and have the makings of a surprise run.) With any luck we get lucky in the 2013 draft and add one more piece for the future.
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A starting center. Period.
And a consistent 20 point scorer.
Which could be had in the same body ...
Agree with the above poster about people who think there's any legitimate comparison between this year and last. Look at the roster, count the new faces and then come back and tell me with a straight face that comparison is legitimate.
You can't.
It's going to be rough around here when people realize Bradley isn't going to turn this season around.
Im more concerned about Avery's health than his ability to help, meaning that if he comes back completely healthy he,ll help a lot and we'll have no trouble being the 7th seed, at which point everything changes....
Avery turned last season around......agree this year it'll take Avery and a bit more, namely a healthy and talented back up center.....
I also agree that if we added a talented enough center we could do some damage even without AB.
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Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
The lockout shortened season was very condensed and didn't really help us as you seem to think. Rose is still out and if he does play this season he won't be the Rose you remember. Bosh played in Game 5 (we won), Game 6 (in which Miami needed a legendary performance by James to win), and Game 7 (where we had a lead with 8 minutes left). I don't usually like Green at the 4, but I do like him at that spot when Miami puts Battier there.
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Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
The lockout shortened season was very condensed and didn't really help us as you seem to think. Rose is still out and if he does play this season he won't be the Rose you remember. Bosh played in Game 5 (we won), Game 6 (in which Miami needed a legendary performance by James to win), and Game 7 (where we had a lead with 8 minutes left). I don't usually like Green at the 4, but I do like him at that spot when Miami puts Battier there.
If we play small ball with green at the four we get murdered. Small ball is Miamis
biggest strength and if we try to match up with that we are toast.
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Last year= lockout shortened season, Rose out for season, Bosh out for most of ECF. If all of those things happen again, this can be just like last year. Also, Jeff Green is terrible at the 4.
The lockout shortened season was very condensed and didn't really help us as you seem to think. Rose is still out and if he does play this season he won't be the Rose you remember. Bosh played in Game 5 (we won), Game 6 (in which Miami needed a legendary performance by James to win), and Game 7 (where we had a lead with 8 minutes left). I don't usually like Green at the 4, but I do like him at that spot when Miami puts Battier there.
If we play small ball with green at the four we get murdered. Small ball is Miamis
biggest strength and if we try to match up with that we are toast.
With our current makeup, we can't really afford to go big against them. Bass has no post up game to speak of and his low basketball IQ kill us defensively, particularly on rotations. We could put Sullinger on Battier, but I do worry about his quickness to help out defensively, rotate, and contest the corner 3.
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Remember last year we stunk until Allen got hurt and Bradley took over the starting spot. Once he did we rolled to I think the best record in the second half of the season.
So at least give Bradley a week to see if he makes a difference.
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Remember last year we stunk until Allen got hurt and Bradley took over the starting spot. Once he did we rolled to I think the best record in the second half of the season.
The difference between a .700 post ASB record and a .600 record is three wins.
Itīs as if the whole Celtic nation has no clue about basic math.