CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: cman88 on December 30, 2012, 09:13:18 AM
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alot of the arguments for why bradley wont help us are that "one player isnt a savior!" while bradley alone isnt a savior its the subsequent moves that make the team better.
I look at it like when the Patriots acquired Aqib Talib...how is it that adding ONE player to the team improved that defense? its because it allowed them to move players to roles where they are more comfortable/apt to excel in.
when adding Bradley to the team you
1. replace a horrible defender(terry) with an elite one(bradley)
2. you put Terry on the bench where he is more comfortable to come out and score.
3.it improves the defense of our first unit so we can hopefully get out to leads in the first quarter instead of playing catch-up.
really, thats a large reason why we improved last year as well. our defense was slow and allen couldnt cover anyone. putting him on the bench/bradley in the starting lineup made us a better team...and the stats show it.
now, im sure i'll be met with responses of how Bradley really had nothing to do with our run last year, and how he will be useless this year. But, ill be back in a month when bradley is playing well and our team as a while is playing better because of it.
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alot of the arguments for why bradley wont help us are that "one player isnt a savior!" while bradley alone isnt a savior its the subsequent moves that make the team better.
I look at it like when the Patriots acquired Aqib Talib...how is it that adding ONE player to the team improved that defense? its because it allowed them to move players to roles where they are more comfortable/apt to excel in.
when adding Bradley to the team you
1. replace a horrible defender(terry) with an elite one(bradley)
2. you put Terry on the bench where he is more comfortable to come out and score.
3.it improves the defense of our first unit so we can hopefully get out to leads in the first quarter instead of playing catch-up.
really, thats a large reason why we improved last year as well. our defense was slow and allen couldnt cover anyone. putting him on the bench/bradley in the starting lineup made us a better team...and the stats show it.
now, im sure i'll be met with responses of how Bradley really had nothing to do with our run last year, and how he will be useless this year. But, ill be back in a month when bradley is playing well and our team as a while is playing better because of it.
Anybody who says that doesn't even deserve a response. Avery bradley is a huge piece to this team and a huge importance.
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
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offense starts with a good defense. AB should make "some" difference. Terry is too old and short to play big minutes, its been a long time since he had to play alot of minutes , the opponent size him up quick and abuse him. JET is shooter who comes off the bench cold for like a 4-6min period and destroys the other team when they are down or a end of game bucket. He is a specialized specific role player. Thats all he was for the MAv 's for so long , I can't remeber him playing Rondo kind of minutes. Jet is has accepted his role as killer off the bench , anyone can see by his body language he is uncomfortable with playing more than 7 minutes. Jet is being used wrong. The starters need to build a lead and when the other team is reeling , throw in JET for the deadly THREE's . to finish them off. He has the uncanny ability to come in stone cold , and knock down THREE's.
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
This is really what I'm hoping for.
The team will see AB make some quality perimeter stops, a couple blocks here and there, and Rondo will find him cutting in the lane for an easy layup or two.
The team should respond to those positives. They'll be energized and play with more fire. They will have a winning attitude again.
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Going to take a lot more than Bradley to help this team. Jason terry has been a bust...as has lee. This team plays no defense and just is not any good
Right now they are getting blown out pretty much in each loss. They are very lazy and an embarrassment. I expected more from these guys. I now accept they are an old .500 team that will be a 6,7 or 8 seed and will be lucky to get out of round one
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Going to take a lot more than Bradley to help this team. Jason terry has been a bust...as has lee. This team plays no defense and just is not any good
Right now they are getting blown out pretty much in each loss. They are very lazy and an embarrassment. I expected more from these guys. I now accept they are an old .500 team that will be a 6,7 or 8 seed and will be lucky to get out of round one
I disagree that's its gonna take ALOT more than bradley. Add in bradley and a talented big *Cousins, gortat etc* and this is a whole different team. That's all we need IMO. Then all of our role players can be ROLE PLAYERS and not STARTERS. Collins and Bass even LEE should not be starters on a championship team. Once we get everybody back to playing their roles on a consistent basis we will be fine.. Assuming danny gets it done.
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We need to start playing our more athletic guys (Green Lee, Bradley, Bass) at the same time for extended periods. LAC and GSW crushed us with their superior athleticism.
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
This is really what I'm hoping for.
The team will see AB make some quality perimeter stops, a couple blocks here and there, and Rondo will find him cutting in the lane for an easy layup or two.
The team should respond to those positives. They'll be energized and play with more fire. They will have a winning attitude again.
Someone needs to explain to me why 12 guys, including two guaranteed hall of famers need to be inspired to play good basketball by a guy who has never played a Full season. Clearly he is a good defensive player, but I just don't get this line of thinking. Don't these guys know by suck by now or do they need Bradley to help them figure that out and will just start playing better? I am trying to Nederland this line of thinking, but just can't. Shouldn't they have the professional pride to start playing better on their own?
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Going to take a lot more than Bradley to help this team. Jason terry has been a bust...as has lee. This team plays no defense and just is not any good
Right now they are getting blown out pretty much in each loss. They are very lazy and an embarrassment. I expected more from these guys. I now accept they are an old .500 team that will be a 6,7 or 8 seed and will be lucky to get out of round one
I disagree that's its gonna take ALOT more than bradley. Add in bradley and a talented big *Cousins, gortat etc* and this is a whole different team. That's all we need IMO. Then all of our role players can be ROLE PLAYERS and not STARTERS. Collins and Bass even LEE should not be starters on a championship team. Once we get everybody back to playing their roles on a consistent basis we will be fine.. Assuming danny gets it done.
It doesn't even have to be a talented big. Just someone who's big enough, athletic enough and is willing to challenge shots and get contact and fight for rebounds. The talent will be just gravy. Give me someone like a Brendan Haywood or Tim Mosgov or Koufos or Okafor or (my boy) Jason Smith and a healthy AB and this team will be way better.
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Going to take a lot more than Bradley to help this team. Jason terry has been a bust...as has lee. This team plays no defense and just is not any good
Right now they are getting blown out pretty much in each loss. They are very lazy and an embarrassment. I expected more from these guys. I now accept they are an old .500 team that will be a 6,7 or 8 seed and will be lucky to get out of round one
I disagree that's its gonna take ALOT more than bradley. Add in bradley and a talented big *Cousins, gortat etc* and this is a whole different team. That's all we need IMO. Then all of our role players can be ROLE PLAYERS and not STARTERS. Collins and Bass even LEE should not be starters on a championship team. Once we get everybody back to playing their roles on a consistent basis we will be fine.. Assuming danny gets it done.
That is a lot of move to get one of the guys you mentioned and I agree it needs to be done
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Going to take a lot more than Bradley to help this team. Jason terry has been a bust...as has lee. This team plays no defense and just is not any good
Right now they are getting blown out pretty much in each loss. They are very lazy and an embarrassment. I expected more from these guys. I now accept they are an old .500 team that will be a 6,7 or 8 seed and will be lucky to get out of round one
I disagree that's its gonna take ALOT more than bradley. Add in bradley and a talented big *Cousins, gortat etc* and this is a whole different team. That's all we need IMO. Then all of our role players can be ROLE PLAYERS and not STARTERS. Collins and Bass even LEE should not be starters on a championship team. Once we get everybody back to playing their roles on a consistent basis we will be fine.. Assuming danny gets it done.
LOL, when you add a player like Cousins, that IS a lot more than Bradley! Anyway, we are not getting a player like Cousins without trading Bradley. It's the "talented big" that would have the larger impact to our team imo.
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demarcus cousins
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
This is really what I'm hoping for.
The team will see AB make some quality perimeter stops, a couple blocks here and there, and Rondo will find him cutting in the lane for an easy layup or two.
The team should respond to those positives. They'll be energized and play with more fire. They will have a winning attitude again.
Someone needs to explain to me why 12 guys, including two guaranteed hall of famers need to be inspired to play good basketball by a guy who has never played a Full season. Clearly he is a good defensive player, but I just don't get this line of thinking. Don't these guys know by suck by now or do they need Bradley to help them figure that out and will just start playing better? I am trying to Nederland this line of thinking, but just can't. Shouldn't they have the professional pride to start playing better on their own?
Losing tends to to suck up your confidence. Even the veterans experience that. I don't care if you're a HOF'er, when your losing, you tend to think twice about everything you do on the court instead of just letting your game flow because you're too worried of LOSING AGAIN.
Having someone who will change the flow of the game and put you in a winning situation WILL INSPIRE everyone. It's so simple. When they are in a position to win, they get more aggressive, players get more confident and they don't tend to think too much. They will shoot at will, confidently, and will hit the shot. They will play better defense, their energy will be in a higher level.
AB is a difference maker on defense. He will shut people down, leading to less easy baskets, leading to more offensive possessions, leading to more points, leading to well, getting the lead and the win. Along the way, the team will play inspired basketball because of that, instead of playing nervous and thinking they'll lose again.
You're pessimism is just preventing you from seeing how simple it is.
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Going to take a lot more than Bradley to help this team. Jason terry has been a bust...as has lee. This team plays no defense and just is not any good
Right now they are getting blown out pretty much in each loss. They are very lazy and an embarrassment. I expected more from these guys. I now accept they are an old .500 team that will be a 6,7 or 8 seed and will be lucky to get out of round one
I disagree that's its gonna take ALOT more than bradley. Add in bradley and a talented big *Cousins, gortat etc* and this is a whole different team. That's all we need IMO. Then all of our role players can be ROLE PLAYERS and not STARTERS. Collins and Bass even LEE should not be starters on a championship team. Once we get everybody back to playing their roles on a consistent basis we will be fine.. Assuming danny gets it done.
It doesn't even have to be a talented big. Just someone who's big enough, athletic enough and is willing to challenge shots and get contact and fight for rebounds. The talent will be just gravy. Give me someone like a Brendan Haywood or Tim Mosgov or Koufos or Okafor or (my boy) Jason Smith and a healthy AB and this team will be way better.
Yeah you're right.
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I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys say a week from now when Bradley has played a few games and the team still sucks. KG, Pierce, Terry, Sullinger, Lee, Green, Rondo, Bass, they are all trying hard out there, they just aren't getting it done. They aren't going to become faster and more athletic magically because a 6 ft 3 shooting guard who can't dribble or shoot is on the floor with them. The good part about that is that Bradley will have shown he's healthy, making him more tradeable.
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
This is really what I'm hoping for.
The team will see AB make some quality perimeter stops, a couple blocks here and there, and Rondo will find him cutting in the lane for an easy layup or two.
The team should respond to those positives. They'll be energized and play with more fire. They will have a winning attitude again.
Someone needs to explain to me why 12 guys, including two guaranteed hall of famers need to be inspired to play good basketball by a guy who has never played a Full season. Clearly he is a good defensive player, but I just don't get this line of thinking. Don't these guys know by suck by now or do they need Bradley to help them figure that out and will just start playing better? I am trying to Nederland this line of thinking, but just can't. Shouldn't they have the professional pride to start playing better on their own?
Losing tends to to suck up your confidence. Even the veterans experience that. I don't care if you're a HOF'er, when your losing, you tend to think twice about everything you do on the court instead of just letting your game flow because you're too worried of LOSING AGAIN.
Having someone who will change the flow of the game and put you in a winning situation WILL INSPIRE everyone. It's so simple. When they are in a position to win, they get more aggressive, players get more confident and they don't tend to think too much. They will shoot at will, confidently, and will hit the shot. They will play better defense, their energy will be in a higher level.
AB is a difference maker on defense. He will shut people down, leading to less easy baskets, leading to more offensive possessions, leading to more points, leading to well, getting the lead and the win. Along the way, the team will play inspired basketball because of that, instead of playing nervous and thinking they'll lose again.
You're pessimism is just preventing you from seeing how simple it is.
Well, we are not going to agree so the games will tell the story. I just picture all of the Celts sitting there praying for Avery's return and just knowing they are going to suck until It happens. Again, he will help, but this team is a basket case right now and needs a LOT more than Avery Bradley. This team of hall of famers and career guys who have been excellent bench players need Avery Bradley to put them in a position to win. ???
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
This is really what I'm hoping for.
The team will see AB make some quality perimeter stops, a couple blocks here and there, and Rondo will find him cutting in the lane for an easy layup or two.
The team should respond to those positives. They'll be energized and play with more fire. They will have a winning attitude again.
Someone needs to explain to me why 12 guys, including two guaranteed hall of famers need to be inspired to play good basketball by a guy who has never played a Full season. Clearly he is a good defensive player, but I just don't get this line of thinking. Don't these guys know by suck by now or do they need Bradley to help them figure that out and will just start playing better? I am trying to Nederland this line of thinking, but just can't. Shouldn't they have the professional pride to start playing better on their own?
Losing tends to to suck up your confidence. Even the veterans experience that. I don't care if you're a HOF'er, when your losing, you tend to think twice about everything you do on the court instead of just letting your game flow because you're too worried of LOSING AGAIN.
Having someone who will change the flow of the game and put you in a winning situation WILL INSPIRE everyone. It's so simple. When they are in a position to win, they get more aggressive, players get more confident and they don't tend to think too much. They will shoot at will, confidently, and will hit the shot. They will play better defense, their energy will be in a higher level.
AB is a difference maker on defense. He will shut people down, leading to less easy baskets, leading to more offensive possessions, leading to more points, leading to well, getting the lead and the win. Along the way, the team will play inspired basketball because of that, instead of playing nervous and thinking they'll lose again.
You're pessimism is just preventing you from seeing how simple it is.
Well, we are not going to agree so the games will tell the story. I just picture all of the Celts sitting there praying for Avery's return and just knowing they are going to suck until It happens. Again, he will help, but this team is a basket case right now and needs a LOT more than Avery Bradley. This team of hall of famers and career guys who have been excellent bench players need Avery Bradley to put them in a position to win. ???
They dont need him per se'. They need a spark to boost morale up. He can provide that with his defense.
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I personally think a lot of the problems with this team are mental right now. For whatever reason they just don't look all there on the court. They seem so lost and indifferent. I don't think that from a pure basketball standpoint Avery is the answer (though he will help a good deal), but I think/hope that from a pure morale/mental stand-point his intensity will help everyone click.
Also, I hope we trade Jeff Green for someone better. (I have never been a fan of the "but he has huge upside!!!!" argument. I prefer proven talents). I would also like Sully to be given extended minutes.
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I just hope his play and energy inspires the rest of the team to play with some as well. I'm excited to see JET back in his 6th man role where hopefully he will be much more comfortable.
This is really what I'm hoping for.
The team will see AB make some quality perimeter stops, a couple blocks here and there, and Rondo will find him cutting in the lane for an easy layup or two.
The team should respond to those positives. They'll be energized and play with more fire. They will have a winning attitude again.
Someone needs to explain to me why 12 guys, including two guaranteed hall of famers need to be inspired to play good basketball by a guy who has never played a Full season. Clearly he is a good defensive player, but I just don't get this line of thinking. Don't these guys know by suck by now or do they need Bradley to help them figure that out and will just start playing better? I am trying to Nederland this line of thinking, but just can't. Shouldn't they have the professional pride to start playing better on their own?
Losing tends to to suck up your confidence. Even the veterans experience that. I don't care if you're a HOF'er, when your losing, you tend to think twice about everything you do on the court instead of just letting your game flow because you're too worried of LOSING AGAIN.
Having someone who will change the flow of the game and put you in a winning situation WILL INSPIRE everyone. It's so simple. When they are in a position to win, they get more aggressive, players get more confident and they don't tend to think too much. They will shoot at will, confidently, and will hit the shot. They will play better defense, their energy will be in a higher level.
AB is a difference maker on defense. He will shut people down, leading to less easy baskets, leading to more offensive possessions, leading to more points, leading to well, getting the lead and the win. Along the way, the team will play inspired basketball because of that, instead of playing nervous and thinking they'll lose again.
You're pessimism is just preventing you from seeing how simple it is.
Well, we are not going to agree so the games will tell the story. I just picture all of the Celts sitting there praying for Avery's return and just knowing they are going to suck until It happens. Again, he will help, but this team is a basket case right now and needs a LOT more than Avery Bradley. This team of hall of famers and career guys who have been excellent bench players need Avery Bradley to put them in a position to win. ???
It's an implausible argument without substantiation, to claim that a small 2 with two bad shoulders and a very limited sample size of success will somehow cure what ails this team.
It will not, for a wide variety of reasons, not the least of which is that Bradley simply is not as good as people here want to paint him.
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Bradley will help perimeter defense...hope this helps on the pick n roll...but I am not sure one guy will be the answer
how about jason terry, jeff green and lee stepping up and earning their keep? how about getting a LEGIT rebounder that can help this team? How about bass being what he is...a bench guy...
Bradley will help..but the issues are so much more than he can fix
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Trade every1 except Pierce, KG, Rondo, Sullinger, Melo, Green & Bradley. This team sucks man, and dont ignore the truth. :-\ If u dont beleive me, ask any NBA fan in your community.
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alot of the arguments for why bradley wont help us are that "one player isnt a savior!" while bradley alone isnt a savior its the subsequent moves that make the team better.
It's true, one person isn't a "savior." That is a fact of human life.
But AB will be a tremendous addition to our roster, especially defensively, where we are at our weakest right now.
If his play causes teams to score 5 less points a game, the whole season will change.
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Bradley will help perimeter defense...hope this helps on the pick n roll...but I am not sure one guy will be the answer
how about jason terry, jeff green and lee stepping up and earning their keep? how about getting a LEGIT rebounder that can help this team? How about bass being what he is...a bench guy...
Bradley will help..but the issues are so much more than he can fix
ya, but thats the point...you move Terry to the bench where he is much more comfortable and able to perform...the games we started lee, Terry went off...he was brought here to come off the bench and knock down 3's. not to start and play 30minutes a night...Lee's poor play forced us to start Terry
and to CoachBo...last I checked, Bradley's ability to play defense had more to do with his ability to stay in front of defenders than his shoulders...he helped completely transform this team last year.
maybe he wont shoot 50/40/80....but I see absolutely NO reason to expect he will regress defensively...its just rediculous to state as much
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Are the injured shoulders that big of a deal? I am asking. I am not good with injuries. I hear it mentioned a lot as something important.
I heard Nick Collison had double shoulder surgery in his rookie year back in Seattle. It hasn't slowed him down any. Collison has been one of the most physical defenders in the league. He has also been fairly durable since then.
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Things that will happen when Avery Bradley returns on January 2nd:
-Doc Rivers will decide that small ball doesn't work
-KG will stop using the 5-5-5 plan
-Pierce will lose weight
-Rondo will stop pouting and yelling at the refs and everyone around him
-Sullinger will get more PT AND will have plays called for him to post up
-Lee will start hitting his threes
-Green will grow a pair
-Cousins new agent will decide to give us Cousins in a Pau Gasol type deal
-Wade will stop hitting people in the groin and trying to dislocate their joints
-Lebron will actually get called for fouls
-Bird, McHale, and Parrish WILL walk through that door
-David Stern, on his day of retirement (YAY!) will apologize to all the teams and the fans he screwed over for decades, especially the celtics
-Congress will not only work together and avoid the fiscal cliff, they will balance the budget
Yes, I cannot wait for the return of Avery Bradley.
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While he's not the savior, his defense is contagious and that is good enough for me. That's the closest you're going to get to a savior. Can't wait for him to be back
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Bradley will help perimeter defense...hope this helps on the pick n roll...but I am not sure one guy will be the answer
how about jason terry, jeff green and lee stepping up and earning their keep? how about getting a LEGIT rebounder that can help this team? How about bass being what he is...a bench guy...
Bradley will help..but the issues are so much more than he can fix
ya, but thats the point...you move Terry to the bench where he is much more comfortable and able to perform...the games we started lee, Terry went off...he was brought here to come off the bench and knock down 3's. not to start and play 30minutes a night...Lee's poor play forced us to start Terry
and to CoachBo...last I checked, Bradley's ability to play defense had more to do with his ability to stay in front of defenders than his shoulders...he helped completely transform this team last year.
maybe he wont shoot 50/40/80....but I see absolutely NO reason to expect he will regress defensively...its just rediculous to state as much
Yup
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While he's not the savior, his defense is contagious and that is good enough for me. That's the closest you're going to get to a savior. Can't wait for him to be back
Nope, here are a few examples of what saviors actually look like:
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Magic Johnson
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Lee's poor play forced us to start Terry
Paul Pierce played like crap to start the season. That didn't "force" Doc to start Jeff Green. 2 years ago, Doc continued to give Avery minutes while he kept playing like hot garbage.
Which is not to make excuses for Lee, 'cause he was not playing well at the start of the season. But much like the decision to start Sully over Bass, if that's what you're going to do you have to be committed to it and not change course at the drop of a hat. Lee has only started 11 games this year. Terry has started 21. The only thing Terry has done better than Lee is shoot the three. He scores more than Lee, but that's only because he takes more shots. And before you say Lee needs to shoot more, what do you think Doc would do if Courtney went 1-15 or 6-19?
Mike
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Lee's poor play forced us to start Terry
Paul Pierce played like crap to start the season. That didn't "force" Doc to start Jeff Green. 2 years ago, Doc continued to give Avery minutes while he kept playing like hot garbage.
Which is not to make excuses for Lee, 'cause he was not playing well at the start of the season. But much like the decision to start Sully over Bass, if that's what you're going to do you have to be committed to it and not change course at the drop of a hat. Lee has only started 11 games this year. Terry has started 21. The only thing Terry has done better than Lee is shoot the three. He scores more than Lee, but that's only because he takes more shots. And before you say Lee needs to shoot more, what do you think Doc would do if Courtney went 1-15 or 6-19?
Mike
lol you make alot of sense. I'm still waiting to see a post from you i disagree with.