this road trip is Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
humiliating
Please let it end.... :-X
Soon
this road trip is Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
humiliating
Please let it end.... :-X
Soon
Lose by 5, lose by 25, not much different.
Losing those games to the Pistons early in the season, 3 to the Bucks, OT in Philly and the first two to Brooklyn....those games killed me.....these...not so much.
We will be 2-2 after Kings game on this road-trip that started in Brooklyn. Would've preferred 3-1 or 4-0, but will take 2-2.
I like Jason Collins starting against DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins is an explosive offensive threat who is capable of going off on any team at any moment. Collins is a good defensive option against Cousins with his size, physical toughness and mobility.Doc will go small ball though
I want to keep one of Collins or Garnett on the floor at all times against Cousins. None of the backup PFs are capable of defending Cousins effectively. It needs to be Collins are Garnett. Doc will be able to play his two PF lineups when Cousins rests since Sacramento has no other center on their roster either.
The Kings are dysfunctional as heck ... this has gotta be a win, right?
The Kings are dysfunctional as heck ... this has gotta be a win, right?
The Kings are dysfunctional as heck ... this has gotta be a win, right?
(http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/media/created/250/sy8nz8.jpg)
I expect another blow out loss.
I expect another blow out loss.
Your optimism is really really way up there.
I expect another blow out loss.
Your optimism is really really way up there.
After the last two games...I don't have much optimism anymore. They just are not improving. They are getting worse even. Beyond discouraged
That will make things that much harder. Unnecessarily.I like Jason Collins starting against DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins is an explosive offensive threat who is capable of going off on any team at any moment. Collins is a good defensive option against Cousins with his size, physical toughness and mobility.Doc will go small ball though
I want to keep one of Collins or Garnett on the floor at all times against Cousins. None of the backup PFs are capable of defending Cousins effectively. It needs to be Collins are Garnett. Doc will be able to play his two PF lineups when Cousins rests since Sacramento has no other center on their roster either.
Rajon Rondo (bruised hip and thigh) is uncertain whether he'll be able to return on Sunday.This could be a tricky game without Rondo.
"I honestly don't know," Rondo said. "I'm trying to [play Sunday]." Doc Rivers said the injuries were minor and fortunately the Celtics don't play a weekend matinee, so we should have an update in the afternoon.
Source: Steve Bulpett on Twitter Dec 30 - 4:11 AM
This should be an easy win, but I'm expecting a nail biter.
Sadly I agree I'll wait until AB is back and about a couple weeks after that, as im sure Danny will be as well. If we dont improve this team is getting broken up for a trade no doubt.I expect another blow out loss.
Your optimism is really really way up there.
After the last two games...I don't have much optimism anymore. They just are not improving. They are getting worse even. Beyond discouraged
Offensively, the Kings rank 19th in the league averaging 0.901 points per play, according to Synergy Sports data. Sacramento is actually a top 10 spot-up shooting team (1.009 ppp) and that makes them dangerous one night after Golden State scorched Boston with jumpers.Dangerous spot up shooting team.
Rajon Rondo - G - Celtics
Updating a previous report, Rajon Rondo (hip/thigh) will play on Sunday.
With Leandro Barbosa also back in action and Avery Bradley's return around the corner, there's not a lot of upside for Jason Terry and Courtney Lee.
Source: Steve Bulpett on Twitter Dec 30 - 7:53 PM
Nice drive by Cousins and finish over Collins.
gettin blown away already ::)It's making me sick to my stomach if this thing balloons to 15-20 by the 2nd quarter were through. No fight in this group so far from what I've seen.
Terry wit some terrible passes so far
Why does Green take 5 seconds to make his move in the post? Everybody knows by then and reacts to what he's doing smhso that we could reminisce about Perk when he'd take just as long to make a move when he had the ball in the post ;D
Lovely ball fake by Thomas to freeze the help defender on that driving layup
we had 6'10" guy that could jump last year but we shipped him out for Lee. wonder if he'd have cracked this rotation this year based on how badly they're playingLovely ball fake by Thomas to freeze the help defender on that driving layup
Sully was there at the rim. But he can't jump. Stayed flat footed and watched the drive to the rim.
bass......
No interior defense or big man help defense from the bigs.
I am liking this effort from Jeff Green. The jumper. Then the great post position. Missed and got blocked. But I like the aggressiveness from J.Green.well he's had some bad games so he's due for a good game right?!
I know as a whole were bad but shouldn't the starters get a lot of the blame? Awful starts constantlyThe starting unit was very poor. I feel better having Courtney Lee and Jeff Green out there. Only issue is the Bass + Sully combo. Replace one of them with Garnett and Boston is in business.
I know as a whole were bad but shouldn't the starters get a lot of the blame? Awful starts constantly
Second half = no Collins. Change the starting lineup. Start a different lineup.
I like having Collins to defend Cousins today but his impact on that starting lineup as a whole is too negative. They got to get more quickness and activity on the floor.
Go back to Garnett against Cousins and use Bass or Sully alongside him. Dump Terry and bring in Jeff Green or Courtney Lee to play alongside Pierce. I would go with Sully and Green.
Thomas Robinson making quite a few mental errors.he's been bad so far early on dis year im pullin for him cuz he from da DMV nd he had a sad story, it just aint been happenin so far
Terry is soooooo badagreed, he's been awful this year. part of it's on Doc to figure out how to use him best but some of it's on JET (like a missed dunk for example)
wow
Awesome move by Sully.
I didn't realize he's 3-4 which isn't bad but that's why he makes BAD plays/decisions at the worse of timesAwesome move by Sully.
I'm just begging Doc to call his number on the blocks 3 times a half.
Terry is soooooo badagreed, he's been awful this year. part of it's on Doc to figure out how to use him best but some of it's on JET (like a missed dunk for example)
wow
Rondo struggling to get by Fredette off the dribble.Now, he can't catch Fredette in the open court. Rondo struggling physically.
Doc, Green and Sully played well together. Nothing wrong with playing Pierce at the 2, Green at the 3, Sully at the 4, and KG at the 5.
Rondo struggling to get by Fredette off the dribble.Now, he can't catch Fredette in the open court. Rondo struggling physically.
Getting outplayed by the Kings.. ::)
Very ugly run there. +/- must be awful for the starters.
I thought Rondo when healthy would have had enough time and space to get passed him and make a play on the ball on that first fastbreak layup by Jimmer. To make an attempt without giving up the foul.Rondo struggling to get by Fredette off the dribble.Now, he can't catch Fredette in the open court. Rondo struggling physically.
dont think its that he cant catch him, just didnt see the point of making the foul.
Very ugly run there. +/- must be awful for the starters.
Pierce is -18. Surprisingly so is Sully.
Very ugly run there. +/- must be awful for the starters.
Pierce is -18. Surprisingly so is Sully.
If Green could learn to spin baseline...Or Bass for that matter.
Please bring up Melo for Collins. It could not be any worse.
Please bring up Melo for Collins. It could not be any worse.
According to the Celtics Collins is better than Melo.
Please bring up Melo for Collins. It could not be any worse.
If Green could learn to spin baseline...Or Bass for that matter.
Sully did once. Awesome. Worked well!
Please bring up Melo for Collins. It could not be any worse.
According to the Celtics Collins is better than Melo.
According to the Chief, the Celtics are wrong.
I seriously hope they come out and turn this around in the third because if they can't beat the Kings then I don't know what else to say.
Please bring up Melo for Collins. It could not be any worse.
do not tell me darko was worse than him. thanks again doc!
those points came LOOOOONNNGGG after my comment. he's playing betterTerry is soooooo badagreed, he's been awful this year. part of it's on Doc to figure out how to use him best but some of it's on JET (like a missed dunk for example)
wow
He has 11 points already on 4/5 shooting! Not sure what people expect from him anymore...
dis is how Jeff Green needs to play all da time smh
Pierce, get on the block. Somebody has to post up.
waive collins. Dont just not let him play waive him
These Avery Bradley promos are like something the WWE does.
****. They are down a man, we're at full strength :D
This is ridiculous. The Celtics are, apparently, at best an average team. How on earth are they losing to the Kings?
****. They are down a man, we're at full strength :D
missed the Avery promo? haha.
This is ridiculous. The Celtics are, apparently, at best an average team. How on earth are they losing to the Kings?
why exactly are you surprised with what we've seen lately? weird
Sully is my hero!!!
Having said that, Doc asks Collins if he is ready to comeback in. :P
****. They are down a man, we're at full strength :D
missed the Avery promo? haha.
oh yes becasue he'll make a world of difference ::) This isnt Derrick Rose we're talkin about.
Why is Garnett sitting again? It's really hard for a team to get a rhythm and run going if one of its most important players plays such short stints. Another thing, the opponent can relax about the Celtics going on an extended run because with Garnett and his defense off the floor, it's not going to happen. Basketball isn't played in 5 minute spurts. Nobody in history has done this!Doc is saving garnett for next years preseason games
true true.like your confidence but I'm not sure why this is a surprise at this point, they're playing poorly right now and it isn't really a flukeThis is ridiculous. The Celtics are, apparently, at best an average team. How on earth are they losing to the Kings?
why exactly are you surprised with what we've seen lately? weird
My surprise is because I did expect them to dominate tonight though, end the road trip on a good note. This performance is terrible.
Sullinger's defense is horrible. I really want to like him but his overall impact is negative. He's one of the worst defensive players in the game. And thing is, there's really not much he can do. He's busting his butt but he's too slow and can't jump so whether it's post players or penetrators, they score on him easily.
Sully is my hero!!!
Having said that, Doc asks Collins if he is ready to comeback in. :P****. They are down a man, we're at full strength :D
missed the Avery promo? haha.
oh yes becasue he'll make a world of difference ::) This isnt Derrick Rose we're talkin about.
I was kidding but um yeah even the Celtics themselves are expecting him to make a huge difference dk if you've been living under a rock
true true.like your confidence but I'm not sure why this is a surprise at this point, they're playing poorly right now and it isn't really a flukeThis is ridiculous. The Celtics are, apparently, at best an average team. How on earth are they losing to the Kings?
why exactly are you surprised with what we've seen lately? weird
My surprise is because I did expect them to dominate tonight though, end the road trip on a good note. This performance is terrible.
Sullinger's defense is horrible. I really want to like him but his overall impact is negative. He's one of the worst defensive players in the game. And thing is, there's really not much he can do. He's busting his butt but he's too slow and can't jump so whether it's post players or penetrators, they score on him easily.
Sullinger's defense is horrible. I really want to like him but his overall impact is negative. He's one of the worst defensive players in the game. And thing is, there's really not much he can do. He's busting his butt but he's too slow and can't jump so whether it's post players or penetrators, they score on him easily.
He is an average defender. But looks a lot worse in this blitzing scheme.
Sacramento should feel very happy to be up 11 points after three.
It doesn't feel like they have that much of a grip on this game.
Sacramento should feel very happy to be up 11 points after three.
It doesn't feel like they have that much of a grip on this game.
we have a grip on nothing.
I am almost too stunned to comment tonight. Sully and Garnett the only reasons left to watch this team. No Evans and no Thornton and the Celts are putting Thomas in the hall of fame. What a joke this team is right now.
oh well. i am done watching this hot garbage of play and coaching. absolute nightmare. 3 straight losses looking us right in the face. we need a major overhaul......we ain't cuttin' it.
I am almost too stunned to comment tonight. Sully and Garnett the only reasons left to watch this team. No Evans and no Thornton and the Celts are putting Thomas in the hall of fame. What a joke this team is right now.
why Garnett? to watch him walk to the bench after playing 5minutes? his inability to be as effective after 5 minute stretches is the biggest reason we suck. doc doesn't do it for no reason
i dont care to hear anything else about this teams potential until we string together 10 straight wins
i dont care to hear anything else about this teams potential until we string together 10 straight wins
This team is in total disarray right now. The D is atrocious, the offense is stagnant, and the players seem to be both physically and mentally exhausted. The offseason acquisitions just haven't panned out as what most of us here had envisioned. The team's lack of ceiling has made it easy for teams with long athletic bigs to dominate us. I think Danny and Doc need to take a long hard look at the current line up and move on to plan B, if there's such a thing. We need to shake things up in my opinion.
Oh good. Small ball.Big lineups weren't working ... might as well try something else at this point.
We might as well just start tanking and hope for Nerlens Noel or Shabazz Muhammad next year, or trade for DMC. I really hope this team loses a couple more games in a row so they get a wake-up call. PATHETIC.
OOOh even better. Smaller ball. Bass at center.Ugh ... I hate Bass at center. Even more so with Jeff Green at PF.
We might as well just start tanking and hope for Nerlens Noel or Shabazz Muhammad next year, or trade for DMC. I really hope this team loses a couple more games in a row so they get a wake-up call. PATHETIC.
This isn't a wake-up call?
Are we really down 23 or is ESPN.com wrong?The last couple of minutes have been awful.
this is an absolute horror show right now. Something has got to give with this team. either take one more run with a major shakeup to get another very good player or just jettison everyone not named Rondo and go into full rebuild. these guys are signed for 3 years and 3 more years of this is not acceptableCan we amnesty the Jet? Lol
I think we'll lose by 20... This team has no heart, and is a bunch of misfit toys. Look, there have been C's teams in the past that you EXPECTED to lose because they had no talent but showed heart. This team has talent, but has no heart. I'm not even excited about watching them play anymore.
Are we really down 23 or is ESPN.com wrong?The last couple of minutes have been awful.
Sacramento just running up the score now.
Where did the Thibs defensive sheme go? Chicago is the best team at preventing the corner three. They're brilliant at it. What are the player do/Doc teaching that they give up so many wide open corner three looks? This is like pre-Thibideau era again, with the blizting and easy threes.
Time to rebuild.and we can start with a new coach.
this is an absolute horror show right now. Something has got to give with this team. either take one more run with a major shakeup to get another very good player or just jettison everyone not named Rondo and go into full rebuild. these guys are signed for 3 years and 3 more years of this is not acceptableYup. Even worse having green, lee, bass for another 3-5 years.
Cannot wait for the battle of the Titans -- The Celtics versus the Bobcats. :oyeah, in the lottery draft room >:(
Where did the Thibs defensive sheme go? Chicago is the best team at preventing the corner three. They're brilliant at it. What are the player do/Doc teaching that they give up so many wide open corner three looks? This is like pre-Thibideau era again, with the blizting and easy threes.
Didnt you hear, Doc is a great coach. Whatta we need Thibs for? :P
Is the terrible defense a coaching or player issue? Hard to imagine that the coaches have changed a philosophy that worked. Are these guys really that poor/slow at defense or are they not smart enough to figure out simple defensive rotations that high school players can figure out?
Get Cousins his triple double!
We were 10-18, at this point in the season, in 2006-2007.
Where did the Thibs defensive sheme go? Chicago is the best team at preventing the corner three. They're brilliant at it. What are the player do/Doc teaching that they give up so many wide open corner three looks? This is like pre-Thibideau era again, with the blizting and easy threes.
Is the terrible defense a coaching or player issue? Hard to imagine that the coaches have changed a philosophy that worked. Are these guys really that poor/slow at defense or are they not smart enough to figure out simple defensive rotations that high school players can figure out?
we are the laughing stock of the league right now.
Is the terrible defense a coaching or player issue? Hard to imagine that the coaches have changed a philosophy that worked. Are these guys really that poor/slow at defense or are they not smart enough to figure out simple defensive rotations that high school players can figure out?
Bass, Bradley,Stiemsa. All new inserts figured it out last year
Worst defense in the NBA right now. WORST.
We were 10-18, at this point in the season, in 2006-2007.
...and we finished 24-58 - worst in the E.C. I don't think we're that bad this year, but we'll struggle to make the 8th seed, possibly 9th.
I'm tired of Doc - his act is getting old. And Avery isn't going to be our savior either.
YIKES!!, LOL....if it weren't for my WASHINGTON REDSKINS ;D ;D, I'd be crying anbout now...you and me both GF. Thankfully we have the Skins to fall back on for a feel-good story this year
C'mon, BOS :(...
well. this fully exposed us as suck rump NBA team.....
no question......
NOW when you see how bad our sucky team beat the NETS...NO WONDER Avery Johnson got fired.
There is NO excuse for losing to the Celtics :-[
well. this fully exposed us as suck rump NBA team.....
no question......
NOW when you see how bad our sucky team beat the NETS...NO WONDER Avery Johnson got fired.
There is NO excuse for losing to the Celtics :-[
I would rather watch the Red Claws at this point.
YIKES!!, LOL....if it weren't for my WASHINGTON REDSKINS ;D ;D, I'd be crying anbout now...you and me both GF. Thankfully we have the Skins to fall back on for a feel-good story this year
C'mon, BOS :(...
YIKES!!, LOL....if it weren't for my WASHINGTON REDSKINS ;D ;D, I'd be crying anbout now...you and me both GF. Thankfully we have the Skins to fall back on for a feel-good story this year
C'mon, BOS :(...
I believe that is 7 losses out of the last 9. But, look what happened last year. ::)
None of the moves ainge made worked so far. This team is a disaster...they are a .500 team at best..there is no miracle...this is what they are. They suck. They are zero signs of improving and they are imploding
Defense is nonexistent. Rebounding...worst In the nba.
This Kings team is TERRIBLE - they are dysfunctional and a complete mess. And we got owned by them tonight. This team sickens me, and Doc Rivers has lost his touch. Doc has been made by his ASSISTANTS - and the current group next to him on the bench is mediocre. Doc is a legend in his own mind, a myth created by those who sat next to him. But he can't coach...
None of the moves ainge made worked so far. This team is a disaster...they are a .500 team at best..there is no miracle...this is what they are. They suck. They are zero signs of improving and they are imploding
Defense is nonexistent. Rebounding...worst In the nba.
It all came down to Darko. Ainge only found 1 semi talented 7 footer. I thought he looked good in the preseason. Doc foolishily did not. The guy's mom gets ill and the rest is history.
I'm one of the most optimistic posters on here, lol..but even I can see something's wrong with BOS right now..I was one too and I had to throw up the white flag and give up on being optimistic.
I'm one of the most optimistic posters on here, lol..but even I can see something's wrong with BOS right now..
None of the moves ainge made worked so far. This team is a disaster...they are a .500 team at best..there is no miracle...this is what they are. They suck. They are zero signs of improving and they are imploding
Defense is nonexistent. Rebounding...worst In the nba.
It all came down to Darko. Ainge only found 1 semi talented 7 footer. I thought he looked good in the preseason. Doc foolishily did not. The guy's mom gets ill and the rest is history.
How badly do we have to tank to catch up to Washington for the #1 pick? Can any poster do some quick calculations?
Doc is actually being semi-honest in the presser. He is talking about not playing hard and needing to find guys who are willing to do the job. Proof will be in the pudding.
None of the moves ainge made worked so far. This team is a disaster...they are a .500 team at best..there is no miracle...this is what they are. They suck. They are zero signs of improving and they are imploding
Defense is nonexistent. Rebounding...worst In the nba.
It all came down to Darko. Ainge only found 1 semi talented 7 footer. I thought he looked good in the preseason. Doc foolishily did not. The guy's mom gets ill and the rest is history.
Wait so darko left because if lack of playing time or his mom? Or both. I liked darko and thought he could really help
None of the moves ainge made worked so far. This team is a disaster...they are a .500 team at best..there is no miracle...this is what they are. They suck. They are zero signs of improving and they are imploding
Defense is nonexistent. Rebounding...worst In the nba.
It all came down to Darko. Ainge only found 1 semi talented 7 footer. I thought he looked good in the preseason. Doc foolishily did not. The guy's mom gets ill and the rest is history.
I agree to an extent. However, defense requires a team commitment from five guys. Right now we have a (very) few commitments from individual players, but nothing from the team perspective. One guy wont fix that, whether it is Darko, Bradley, Garnett, of anyone else. Doc really needs to go back to high school team rules and just say, if you don't guard, you don't play. Even if that means going away from his minutes allotment for a significant time.
I'm one of the most optimistic posters on here, lol..but even I can see something's wrong with BOS right now..
I heard that. But im not losing hope.
Im saying we just hit a big slump, change is coming, especially after this. We will peak in the right time, but right niw we really need ti figure things out. We need more effort. We need Danny's magic and change something.
We'll get things together.
And no celticinorlando, I understand you really are frustrated, we all are, but no real fan should "screw" his team. We are here through thick and thin, and if youre only on board when we are winning and completlely condemn the team while we are losing, you shouldnt be here.
Doc is actually being semi-honest in the presser. He is talking about not playing hard and needing to find guys who are willing to do the job. Proof will be in the pudding.
How badly do we have to tank to catch up to Washington for the #1 pick? Can any poster do some quick calculations?
I'm one of the most optimistic posters on here, lol..but even I can see something's wrong with BOS right now..
I heard that. But im not losing hope.
Im saying we just hit a big slump, change is coming, especially after this. We will peak in the right time, but right niw we really need ti figure things out. We need more effort. We need Danny's magic and change something.
We'll get things together.
And no celticinorlando, I understand you really are frustrated, we all are, but no real fan should "screw" his team. We are here through thick and thin, and if youre only on board when we are winning and completlely condemn the team while we are losing, you shouldnt be here.
Doc is actually being semi-honest in the presser. He is talking about not playing hard and needing to find guys who are willing to do the job. Proof will be in the pudding.
I think the players have been plauin hard. I just think doc is makin things too complicated
Tell me you are kidding. These defensive rotations aren't rocket science. It is a commitment to making the rotations that seems to be the problem. I just watched some of the highlights. They need to stop getting beat off the dribble. They need to defend the pick and roll better. Lastly, when someone gets to the basket, they need to pay for it physically. That is what Perk and Stiesma did. We have precious few players right now that are willing to make those commitments.
The former high school players I used to coach could make the rotations at their level, there is no reason the pros cant learn to make them. It is effort and that is all.
I think you have to have a shot blocker to make it work. Neither Bass nor Sully can protect the rim. The defense worked with:
Perk
JO
Shaq
Steamer
and even KG
at center. It was great when KG was paired with another rim protector. I remember times, last year, when the defense was great with KG and Steamer on the court together.
I think you have to have a shot blocker to make it work. Neither Bass nor Sully can protect the rim. The defense worked with:
Perk
JO
Shaq
Steamer
and even KG
at center. It was great when KG was paired with another rim protector. I remember times, last year, when the defense was great with KG and Steamer on the court together.
This I agree with. Even as bad as JO was on offense. He was a willing participant on the defensive end. He gave no quarter and took no quarter. How can Bass be so much worse on defense this year than last? It can only be the effort he is putting out there unless he is hurt. If Bass and Sully are really that slow or unintelligent to at least get in position to give a hard foul in the lane they they shouldn't play. That goes for everybody at this point.
I think you have to have a shot blocker to make it work. Neither Bass nor Sully can protect the rim. The defense worked with:
Perk
JO
Shaq
Steamer
and even KG
at center. It was great when KG was paired with another rim protector. I remember times, last year, when the defense was great with KG and Steamer on the court together.
This I agree with. Even as bad as JO was on offense. He was a willing participant on the defensive end. He gave no quarter and took no quarter. How can Bass be so much worse on defense this year than last? It can only be the effort he is putting out there unless he is hurt. If Bass and Sully are really that slow or unintelligent to at least get in position to give a hard foul in the lane they they shouldn't play. That goes for everybody at this point.
For the most part, I think Bass is just more exposed defensively this year than last year.I think you have to have a shot blocker to make it work. Neither Bass nor Sully can protect the rim. The defense worked with:
Perk
JO
Shaq
Steamer
and even KG
at center. It was great when KG was paired with another rim protector. I remember times, last year, when the defense was great with KG and Steamer on the court together.
This I agree with. Even as bad as JO was on offense. He was a willing participant on the defensive end. He gave no quarter and took no quarter. How can Bass be so much worse on defense this year than last? It can only be the effort he is putting out there unless he is hurt. If Bass and Sully are really that slow or unintelligent to at least get in position to give a hard foul in the lane they they shouldn't play. That goes for everybody at this point.
Doc just said it is effort and guys not competing. A lot of soft guys imoThis is what I think the issue is to me too. That's why I miss some of the players who either left or were traded like Tony and Perk because at least they gave some toughness and effort.
Doc is actually being semi-honest in the presser. He is talking about not playing hard and needing to find guys who are willing to do the job. Proof will be in the pudding.
I think the players have been plauin hard. I just think doc is makin things too complicated
Tell me you are kidding. These defensive rotations aren't rocket science. It is a commitment to making the rotations that seems to be the problem. I just watched some of the highlights. They need to stop getting beat off the dribble. They need to defend the pick and roll better. Lastly, when someone gets to the basket, they need to pay for it physically. That is what Perk and Stiesma did. We have precious few players right now that are willing to make those commitments.
The former high school players I used to coach could make the rotations at their level, there is no reason the pros cant learn to make them. It is effort and that is all.