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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Rtpas11 on December 29, 2012, 12:12:23 PM

Title: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Rtpas11 on December 29, 2012, 12:12:23 PM
I've been thinking Fab Melo is Big & Slow but has potential. Lots of upside for this kid. He reminds me of Omer Asik. Asik was also an off the bench center for the bulls, but when giving the opportunity to start, get comfortable while making a lot of mistakes, he has grown in to top 10 NBA Centers just 30 games in the season.

Fab needs a shot at the Big League. He needs to be able to make his mistakes also & grow comfortably as a center. With all these new trade rumors, ideas etc... i'm wondering if he'll be shipped out before giving him a strong long look. Doc is an okay coach, not the greatest but we have to deal with him because he's surely isn't going anywhere. I realized if Doc goes, then K.G. goes then the Celtics fold & Danny will also be let go. Doc is here to stay for yrs. to come.

When will our Doc Rivers try to experiment with inexperience? What's the worse that could happen? losing, be a .500 team ??? ;D

Anyhow Jason Collins to me is not a better player than Melo, especially now. What's your opinion.

The Polls are open:
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on December 29, 2012, 12:30:34 PM
Fab Melo to me.

Collins is nothing more than a 3rd string Center now. Plays tough and that's about it.

 Melo's defensive instincts is already way better, and he's a very underrated jump shooter. He might not hit 50% all the time, but with shooting stroke, you can't leave him open around  15-17 feet. He's displaying a good go to hook shot now as well. I know it's the D-League, but he's displaying more stuff than Collins did in his career.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Who on December 29, 2012, 12:34:43 PM
I went with Jason Collins. I trust him to do his job when he is out there.

I haven't seen much of Fab Melo but he has looked like a lost puppy dog out there when I have seen him. I would've liked to see him get a run in the team but I don't have much (hardly any) confidence in him as a contributor this season.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: AB_Celtic on December 29, 2012, 12:36:54 PM
Melo is the better player than Collins right now, that is true.

But, Melo could get even better, and bringing him up now would severely impede his development. So, I say Collins.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 29, 2012, 12:40:44 PM
Jason Collins, despite all the pro Melo hype he played 20 minutes the other night and got just 1 rebound and two points and four blocks.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20121123/MNECTN/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore

Collins may not show up in the stat sheet but he would not be as lost as Melo in our defensive sets.   Collins has helped our defensive intregrity some.   I think Melo would get pushed around and be out of position.     He is improving some in the DL but he is not ready.  Kris Joseph is more ready than him and gets as many RPG.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: cman88 on December 29, 2012, 01:04:46 PM
in the long term, Melo should be better than collins by a long shot.

BUT,

right now he's just developing his nba game offensively/defensively...by the end of the season he might be able to contribute.

But I would fear stunting his growth by bringing him up now to ride the bench(unless doc gives him meaningful playing time)

look at how long it took bradley to gain confidence/develop into an NBA player
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: More Banners on December 29, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
I went with Jason Collins. I trust him to do his job when he is out there.

I haven't seen much of Fab Melo but he has looked like a lost puppy dog out there when I have seen him. I would've liked to see him get a run in the team but I don't have much (hardly any) confidence in him as a contributor this season.

This.  You can count on Collins to be at the right place at the right time, and also to do nothing spectacular when he gets there.  With Melo, you just don't know either way, which means he's not ready for prime time.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 29, 2012, 02:13:59 PM
Quote
in the long term, Melo should be better than collins by a long shot.

BUT,

right now he's just developing his nba game offensively/defensively...by the end of the season he might be able to contribute.

I concur with this completely.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 29, 2012, 04:32:02 PM
Fab is developing faster than I thought, he was off to slow start , he is quiet type nice kid.

He seems to have finally decided to step it up last few games.

Rebounding positoning is his weakness.  If he can reach the ball, he doesn't mind putting the effort in.

He just needs to learn to react to the ball , to give himself the best chance a rebound.  I want to see Fab work "HARD" on offense rebounds and put backs. 

Mello playing 35 minutes a night in D league is much better than riding the bench with the Celtics. At some point yes , he'll be better off learning from the big boys and getting minutes with the Celtics, but he an't ready yet. No need to screw him up .

FAb just needs a million hours of court time , all he can get . 

So right now I'd play Collins on the Celtics and keep Fab working in Maine.

By years end or beginning of nxt season , Fab should be giving some really meaningful minutes as a backup .
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: TripleOT on December 29, 2012, 04:47:42 PM
Doc is starting Collins because he's desperate for some paint presence on defense.  Doc is also trying to get his team to play defense the right way.  Giving Melo rotation minutes now, when he's not ready, wouldn't allow the team to tighten up their defense. 

However, if they can't make a move the next three weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if they bring Melo up and force feed him minutes.  By then, the rest of the new players should be oon the same page.  Having one unsure guy out there on defense for 18 mpg isn't going to kill a 7th seed type team in the regular season. 
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Rtpas11 on December 30, 2012, 09:19:20 AM
Jason Collins Last 5 Games
He's avg. More Fouls than Pts & Rebs. & we really expect to win??? A trade is going to happen. It has to. I doubt the Hornets will make a trade now since they look great after getting Eric Gordon back.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 30, 2012, 09:34:20 AM
I agree that melo isn't ready and that he needs to get big minutes in the Dleague to develop his game, calling him up now would bury to the bench and he needs those game minutes.

However, were playing collins 17 minutes a night to get zeros, literally zeroes!, across the stat sheet. Couldn't melo at least get those minutes, learn, an make a more positive impact somehow? Just thinking out loud.
 
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: TripleOT on December 30, 2012, 10:04:11 AM
It's frustrating to see Mark Jackson start Festus Ezeli, the 30th pick of the 2012 draft, and actually get some decent paint presence out of him, even though Ezeli tends to look terrible when he tries to do anything more than rebound, box out, defend, and try to block shots. 

He's playing only 16 minutes a game, and has some serious holes in his game  (39% FT shooter, but he gives the Warriors an answer while Bogut continues to mend. 

I'm hoping Melo can come in and do this type of thing the second half of the season if Ainge can't make a roster move to bring in a big body who is a bit more uncorpselike than Jason Collins. 

To be fair to Collins, he's decent as a big body who mucks it up and fouls.  His role is as a 12th guy who plays in games where you need to foul the opposing center a bunch of times.  Starting him is using him in a role where he doesn't have the ability for long term success.   
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: celtics2 on December 30, 2012, 10:27:32 AM
Choose your poison.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: D Dub on December 30, 2012, 10:37:03 AM
Jason Collins, despite all the pro Melo hype he played 20 minutes the other night and got just 1 rebound and two points and four blocks.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20121123/MNECTN/gameinfo.

Well if your going to pick one of his bad games, I'll pick one of his good ones. 

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20121222/ERIMNE/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore

Triple double with 14 blocks.   Yep, fourt freakin teen blocks!
And he's scored in double figures in 4 of his last 5. 

He needs work sure but he is getting it & in short order he'll be a top NBA center.  Mark my words
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: lantinm on December 30, 2012, 11:05:41 AM
Personally, I cringed when Danny signed Jason Collins. He brings NOTHING to the table.  I know that he's a big body and some might say that he's a decent post-defender, but he's not helping us at all.  From what I've recently read, Fab has gotten much better with his rotations and defensive assignments.  If that's truly the case, then we really should bring him up.  His shot-blocking/ability to change shots, would make world of difference for us.  He can also score and is a better rebounder than Collins.  People seem to be so worried that Melo is constantly going to miss assignments and give up layups, and to that I say:  Collins is already getting beat like a drum -- so what is the difference?
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Rtpas11 on December 30, 2012, 02:18:53 PM
I agree that melo isn't ready and that he needs to get big minutes in the Dleague to develop his game, calling him up now would bury to the bench and he needs those game minutes.

However, were playing collins 17 minutes a night to get zeros, literally zeroes!, across the stat sheet. Couldn't melo at least get those minutes, learn, an make a more positive impact somehow? Just thinking out loud.

this is exactly what this thread is about... All i'm saying is, why not just try the kid? If it doesn't work out then send him back thats all. I still don't understand the signing of that new guy Varnado. My 1st thought with him signing was "Why? so he could sit on the bench". Doc don't play guys unless forced to. Look at what happened to Greg Steisma... He was sign didn't play a lick until who was it Shelden, Wilcox or Jermaine that went down. smh
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Birdman on December 30, 2012, 02:32:08 PM
I would leave Melo in the D-league for now. Let him get some experience and playing time to learn. He not going to learn sitting on the bench.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: The_Truth on December 30, 2012, 02:46:27 PM
Fab Melo no discussion.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Lechoke Lames on December 31, 2012, 05:26:22 PM
Jason Collins, despite all the pro Melo hype he played 20 minutes the other night and got just 1 rebound and two points and four blocks.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20121123/MNECTN/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore

It's interesting that you mention this game, because Jason Collins "leads" all centers in NBA history in a very similar stat (http://bkref.com/tiny/hmV0t). He has the most games among all NBA centers with 1 rebound or less, 2 points or less and 30 minutes or more.

Melo is the better center.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: ScottHow on December 31, 2012, 05:27:24 PM
Melo Melo Melo Melo Melo! Hell, one armed Melo over Collins.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: MBunge on December 31, 2012, 05:29:49 PM
I almost think I'd rather Melo stay in the D League rather than become Doc's new whipping boy.

Mike
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Eja117 on December 31, 2012, 05:33:28 PM
If they put in Melo what's the worst that could happen? Lose games to young losing teams by 20 points?

Even if he wets the bed it will teach him how far he has to go. As long as he doesn't go all psycho trauma on us there's nothing wrong with some tough love. See how he responds. He needs to learn the game and we need to learn about him.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Change on December 31, 2012, 05:35:38 PM
I almost think I'd rather Melo stay in the D League rather than become Doc's new whipping boy.

Mike

hahaa TP  ;D
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Roy H. on December 31, 2012, 05:45:30 PM
That's a tough choice.  I'd take Darko or Birdman over either of them.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Atzar on December 31, 2012, 05:55:57 PM
Neither.  Bench Collins, leave Melo in the D-League where he can grow, and find somebody else who can come in and do the job.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 31, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
leave Melo to play ball in the D league, he would be over his head with most of the centers he would meet. We are hearing good things .  When he starts averageing a triple double and has a few 40 point scoring night in a row. Then we'll see.....I will say one thing, Melo has a nice free throw that will serve him well. and his jumper is smooth with nice form even if he is not accurate yet, that will come with hours of court time and practice in the gym.

Collins moves with the speed of molasses and near zero offensive ability.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: wdleehi on December 31, 2012, 06:35:18 PM
Letting Melo get more experience and growing is more important for the Celtics then watching him struggle on the bench. 
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Eddie20 on December 31, 2012, 06:40:29 PM
I do want Melo to continue to get minutes and develop. However, I really doubt Collins playing against D3 competition could put up the numbers Melo has in D-League. I say this half jokingly.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Rtpas11 on January 17, 2013, 06:59:38 AM
Why aren't we calling up Fab???

p.s.

Terry, Green & Lee are useless the more they play the worse their value would become. trade them now.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: bfrombleacher on January 17, 2013, 07:26:31 AM
Here's WEEI's article on Fab Melo: http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/12/27/fab-melo-and-the-debate-over-d-league-dominance/

Thabeet apparently is what could happen if you rush your prospects and kill their confidence.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 17, 2013, 07:33:02 AM
It is a moot issue as one of them is in the NBA DL.   So the Celtics are trying to develop Melo and he is a work in progress who has had bad games and good games but has hardly been dominant in the NBA DL.

He is second in the league in blocks at 3.6 BPG.  He is 48 in RPG.  He doesn't even register top 60 in scoring and is 37th in FG%.


The only thing consistent about him is in inconsistentcy.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/game_by_game_stats.html

He is not NBA ready if he was he would be here.   Celtics want him to develop, he has a lot of potential.  But he needs strength and to improve his hands.   He has flashed some signs of doing very well and has a better ceiling than Collins.

I would rather have a serviceble vet in the playoffs though as Melo will get you maybe a block or two and some fouls.   He doesn't have the respect to over come a star call being a NBA DL player.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: Rtpas11 on January 17, 2013, 07:34:09 AM
I think Fab is Far better than Thabeet. Thabeet isn't much of a smart player. Fab has smarts & looks better & better every game. He's looking even quicker & more athletic now.
Title: Re: Fab Melo or Jason Collins
Post by: slamtheking on January 17, 2013, 08:21:45 AM
I think Fab is Far better than Thabeet. Thabeet isn't much of a smart player. Fab has smarts & looks better & better every game. He's looking even quicker & more athletic now.
no need to rush him.  I wasn't happy with the pick during the draft but I've come around to thinking he could be a decent backup center AFTER NEXT SEASON.  give him 2 years in D league to learn how to rebound, defend without fouling and how to score around the basket with confidence.  once he can do that against that level of competition, he should be able to be a backup center in the NBA. 
If he turns out to be a more mobile Perk with better hands, I'd be thrilled but I wouldn't expect anything from hiim until his 3rd year after he was drafted.