CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Lightskinsmurf on December 28, 2012, 10:46:46 AM
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Idc what anyone of you say. Nobody expected this team to be 500 right now. Everybody had high hopes for this team. I personally thought danny had one of the better off seasons hands down. Since when can a team with championship hopes play poorly and the coach get off easy?
I am not a coach, not my job. That being said i am 100 percent convinced if coached correctly this is NOT a 500 team. It might not be a championship team but it is NOT a 500 team. They are playing like one now tho.
People on these boards have no problem throwing out blame after every loss. Except when the blame is directed at the one area that probably deserves the most of it. Granted some of you do give doc blame so I'm not talking about you guys.
All I'm saying is I'm tired of doc getting a free pass. He was given a good enough team to work with. He is making a team with alot of talent look extremely mediocre right now and yes this team does have talent despite what some of you would like to believe.
Again, I'm not saying we're good enough to win it all with this team constructed as is. What i am saying is we're better than this. What I'm saying is its time for the coach to get some blame and alot of it. Just my 2 cents.
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no argument from me. I've never been a Doc Rivers fan--always considered him extremely overrated. Only time he outcoached someone was Phil in the finals. other than that, very unimpressive.
I think this season is again exposing Doc for what he is -- an ineffective coach. this roster should be performing better. A good coach works with what he has for a roster to get the most out of it. Doc doesn't do that. He's trying to make JET into Ray and it's not working. Bass has regressed, Lee is a mess and Green is inconsistent.
The offense should be much better than it is and it's just woeful at times.
The D is horrible and he's got 4/5 of the starting lineup back. how can they be that much worse on D?
That, and throw in all the usual complaints about player-rotations, time-out management and player motivation and you have a solid case for questioning Doc's continuation here. I know I'm in the minority but I really think others could do better. unfortunately, many are already coaching elsewhere.
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Idc what anyone of you say. Nobody expected this team to be 500 right now. Everybody had high hopes for this team. I personally thought danny had one of the better off seasons hands down. Since when can a team with championship hopes play poorly and the coach get off easy?
I am not a coach, not my job. That being said i am 100 percent convinced if coached correctly this is NOT a 500 team. It might not be a championship team but it is NOT a 500 team. They are playing like one now tho.
People on these boards have no problem throwing out blame after every loss. Except when the blame is directed at the one area that probably deserves the most of it. Granted some of you do give doc blame so I'm not talking about you guys.
All I'm saying is I'm tired of doc getting a free pass. He was given a good enough team to work with. He is making a team with alot of talent look extremely mediocre right now and yes this team does have talent despite what some of you would like to believe.
Again, I'm not saying we're good enough to win it all with this team constructed as is. What i am saying is we're better than this. What I'm saying is its time for the coach to get some blame and alot of it. Just my 2 cents.
So do you give Doc credit for taking last year's team within a game of the Finals? I mean who EXPECTED that team to be up 3-2 on the Heat who wiped the floor with OKC?
I also had high hopes for this squad, but watching them play I am realizing that the role players are not good defenders and that is what is most hurting us right now. I think Doris Burke actually mentioned this on the Christmas Day broadcast..."You can get away with bench players not scoring a ton, but you can't make it with bench players who can't defend."
That's where I think we are right now. Our bench has trouble making stops. I hope Danny can make some moves to address that.
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I don't give out credit for losing. This whole *Being up 3-2* thing is silly to me. Doesn't matter if you get swept or lose in 7. Before Lee came here he was considered a very solid defender and solid player all around. Now all of a sudden he sucks and can't do squat right. Terry, great ray allen replacement. Well, until you try to use him exactly the way you used ray allen. I can go on and on, this team is better than this. Doc isn't putting them in the best possible situation to succeed.
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Idc what anyone of you say. Nobody expected this team to be 500 right now. Everybody had high hopes for this team. I personally thought danny had one of the better off seasons hands down. Since when can a team with championship hopes play poorly and the coach get off easy?
I am not a coach, not my job. That being said i am 100 percent convinced if coached correctly this is NOT a 500 team. It might not be a championship team but it is NOT a 500 team. They are playing like one now tho.
People on these boards have no problem throwing out blame after every loss. Except when the blame is directed at the one area that probably deserves the most of it. Granted some of you do give doc blame so I'm not talking about you guys.
All I'm saying is I'm tired of doc getting a free pass. He was given a good enough team to work with. He is making a team with alot of talent look extremely mediocre right now and yes this team does have talent despite what some of you would like to believe.
Again, I'm not saying we're good enough to win it all with this team constructed as is. What i am saying is we're better than this. What I'm saying is its time for the coach to get some blame and alot of it. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks. ;D
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Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.
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Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.
Everyone forgets that last year was completely skewed because of the strike. Every veteran Celtics player was out of shape, which was the main reason for their awful record at the all star break. They do not have that excuse this year. They have had 28 games and they look worse now than they did earlier in the season. They have lost 5 of their last 7 games and find it hard to beat any team that has a little more than a pulse. This isn't last year.
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Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.
That is a really bad excuse and it gets old quick. So because LAST YEAR they made a run and still lost by the way, we should just ignore everything thats happening now and let doc off the hook? Because of last year everything is gonna be fine this year? That logic is extremely weak I'm sorry. It is a long season but that doesn't mean doc shouldn't be getting any blame right now.
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The fact that Lee and Terry is not playing up to expectations, I think part of it is coaching.
The fact that we were playing small ball from the beginning when we had a solid Center to put in, is also coaching.
Some of this is on Doc.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
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The fact that Lee and Terry is not playing up to expectations, I think part of it is coaching.
The fact that we were playing small ball from the beginning when we had a solid Center to put in, is also coaching.
Some of this is on Doc.
Now that is what really irks me. Now when doc finally gets a clue we have no center left except collins.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
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I just want to know, when you say you don't want Doc to get a "free pass" anymore, do you mean that you want him to get fired, or do you mean that you want the right to Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. about him?
If it's the latter, no one has ever denied anyone that right.
If it's the former, I say, yeah, he's earned the right to stick around and get a chance to try to get this team playing better ball.
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I just want to know, when you say you don't want Doc to get a "free pass" anymore, do you mean that you want him to get fired, or do you mean that you want the right to **** about him?
If it's the latter, no one has ever denied anyone that right.
If it's the former, I say, yeah, he's earned the right to stick around and get a chance to try to get this team playing better ball.
Not saying fire him. Not yet anyways. Even tho i think doc is extremely overrated i don't think firing him is the way to go right now.
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I just want to know, when you say you don't want Doc to get a "free pass" anymore, do you mean that you want him to get fired, or do you mean that you want the right to **** about him?
If it's the latter, no one has ever denied anyone that right.
If it's the former, I say, yeah, he's earned the right to stick around and get a chance to try to get this team playing better ball.
Not saying fire him. Not yet anyways. Even tho i think doc is extremely overrated i don't think firing him is the way to go right now.
Thanks for clarifying that. Carry on with the blaming thing.
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No one in this organization gets a pass. Not Danny not Doc and certainly not any of the players. But with that said none of them should shoulder all the blame either. Pro sports has become to quick to point blame. Right now the team just isnt performing. Players need to play better, Doc needs to figure out the rotation and Danny needs to give Doc a better option in the middle. If all three happen the ship will be righted. If not this team flounders. Under no circumstances do we look to make any coaching changes. The best franchises are the ones that have consistency. Look at the sloan lead Jazz or the Popovich lead spurs.
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We were worse off at this time last year and we turned out all right... Still not worried.
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when folks like us questioned the rotation and the lack of playing time for our bigs we were almost run from the board. 'Give Doc time', they protested. Now no one will fess up that we were right all along about Doc.
This idea that coming one game to the finals last year is a victory is not what the Boston Celtics organization is made of. We lost, and losing is never okay. We could say Doc never had a chance with Bosh on the court last year, or that all Doc had to do was defend his home court to get to the finals and he could not do, or win one out of two and he could not do that. Bottom line is he failed last year, he did not pass. So lets stoip using last year to defend Doc.
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Sure he gets a pass. He has a history of tightening up the team in the playoffs. It will happen again. They'll probably win a series or two but fail to bring home a trophy.
If anything, this is your fault for buying into this team. It never had a serious chance of competing for a championship with an old KG and old Paul Pierce. Rondo isn't going to overcome their ages. Courtney Lee and Jason Terry? Please. Jeff Green is and has always been a fraud. If anything this goes on Danny for going down this road one too many times.
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I guess that I am part of a shrinking minority here but I still think Doc is one of the best coaches in the league. Say we fire him and hire Avery Johnson, think we would be better? I don't.
I think what is going on is that Pierce and KG are older than we thought, Terry, Green, and Lee aren't as good as we thought, and Rondo isn't LeBron and able to carry a mediocre team to the finals.
You can nit pic Doc as he is not perfect but I for one am happy enough with Doc.
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Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.
Everyone forgets that last year was completely skewed because of the strike. Every veteran Celtics player was out of shape, which was the main reason for their awful record at the all star break. They do not have that excuse this year. They have had 28 games and they look worse now than they did earlier in the season. They have lost 5 of their last 7 games and find it hard to beat any team that has a little more than a pulse. This isn't last year.
ding ding ding we have a winner!
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Sure he gets a pass. He has a history of tightening up the team in the playoffs. It will happen again. They'll probably win a series or two but fail to bring home a trophy.
If anything, this is your fault for buying into this team. It never had a serious chance of competing for a championship with an old KG and old Paul Pierce. Rondo isn't going to overcome their ages. Courtney Lee and Jason Terry? Please. Jeff Green is and has always been a fraud. If anything this goes on Danny for going down this road one too many times.
puhleeze. Those two guys are still very good at their respective positions. Put KG at the 5 and he is top 5 in the east easily. stop blaming them. it is the others and the coaching that is the problem here. or should i say lack of others? That old KG and PP had us within one quarter of a 3rd finals appearance in 5 years and that was with no bench. Yeah dump them now and see where we go. TO THE BASEMENT in the east most probably. We have to make a trade with others.
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Doesn't matter if you get swept or lose in 7.
So then what does it really matter if we are playing .500-ball then? If we win it all, then what's the big deal?
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Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.
Everyone forgets that last year was completely skewed because of the strike. Every veteran Celtics player was out of shape, which was the main reason for their awful record at the all star break. They do not have that excuse this year. They have had 28 games and they look worse now than they did earlier in the season. They have lost 5 of their last 7 games and find it hard to beat any team that has a little more than a pulse. This isn't last year.
Every team was out of shape, not just the Celtics...
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I guess that I am part of a shrinking minority here but I still think Doc is one of the best coaches in the league. Say we fire him and hire Avery Johnson, think we would be better? I don't.
I think what is going on is that Pierce and KG are older than we thought, Terry, Green, and Lee aren't as good as we thought, and Rondo isn't LeBron and able to carry a mediocre team to the finals.
You can nit pic Doc as he is not perfect but I for one am happy enough with Doc.
You are not in the "shrinking minority." Doc is roundly considered one of the top coaches in the game.
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I am not sure Doc is getting a free pass. He has been bashed pretty bad on this site at least.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
TP.
The expectations for this team have sunk lower and lower and lower with each passing season. What happened to Celtics Pride? What happened to championship or bust? What happened to "Its all about 18"???
Our whole team getting beat by one Lebron James in Game 6 at home and ultimately losing Game 7 in the ECF is considered "us turning out all right" last season?
Wow.
Doc gets outcoached on a regular basis, can't draw up a game winning play that isn't Paul Pierce iso to save his life, is OBSESSED with small ball even though it DOES NOT work, cannot properly manage rotations based on the flow of the game...He's overrated. Always has been. When people used to rave about him i used to wonder what they saw. I think people mistake good player relations for actual coaching.
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Idc what anyone of you say. Nobody expected this team to be 500 right now. Everybody had high hopes for this team. I personally thought danny had one of the better off seasons hands down. Since when can a team with championship hopes play poorly and the coach get off easy?
I am not a coach, not my job. That being said i am 100 percent convinced if coached correctly this is NOT a 500 team. It might not be a championship team but it is NOT a 500 team. They are playing like one now tho.
People on these boards have no problem throwing out blame after every loss. Except when the blame is directed at the one area that probably deserves the most of it. Granted some of you do give doc blame so I'm not talking about you guys.
All I'm saying is I'm tired of doc getting a free pass. He was given a good enough team to work with. He is making a team with alot of talent look extremely mediocre right now and yes this team does have talent despite what some of you would like to believe.
Again, I'm not saying we're good enough to win it all with this team constructed as is. What i am saying is we're better than this. What I'm saying is its time for the coach to get some blame and alot of it. Just my 2 cents.
Hope should never be the basis of business decisions.
Before the season, way more than half the teams hoped to have winning records by now, though that is practically mathematically impossible.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
TP.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
Yeah you fire him when your star player cries to ownership.
(Sad but true)
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he gets a free pass from me, yeah
best coach this team has had in ages and one of the top ones in the league
I'm more willing to blame Danny than Doc but I'm not sure exactly what else either of them could have done better - but that's just me
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
well said. TP.
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I don't understand how some can blame doc. Did he forget how to coach over the summer? Or was it KG, and Pierce have declined, Green isn't what Ainge thought he was, and Terry is 35?
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I think Doc is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. I think for our current team (KG, PP, Rondo) he is the best choice.
So yeah, he gets a pass from me as well. That doesn't mean he is perfect. But then none of us on this forum are NBA championship coaches. Some of us act like it though.
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the pluses far outweight the minuses.
He is one of the better coachs in the NBA . But like Phil Jackson knows , you can't win championships with out elite players. It takes great players.
NBA coachs are so different from college coaches .
Danny has put together a good team, but not an overpowering team like when Shaq was playing good for the C's.
Rondo isn't a Kobe type of player , he can't just decide to score 40 points . ROndo needs biggger and better FP and Centers to play with.
I think Doc is searching for an answer with what he has got ,and the result is against elite teams we are gonna need younger elite players at the 4/5 for consistancy.
Doc gets a pass , maybe a lower grade than I thought , but I'm not failing him .
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People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.
What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.
Seriously, use some logic.
Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.
What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?
Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.
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Doc has proven himself to be a good coach, certainly above average by NBA standards, and you can't blame him for players getting old or just flat out sucking.
But this season there are probably more things that you clearly CAN blame Doc for than at maybe anytime during his tenure in Boston.
1. Sully. He clearly fell in love with the guy and put him in the starting lineup, but then wasn't willing to allow Sully to go through the inevitable growing pains that all rookies have. It was beyond dump to yank Bass out of the starting line up if Doc wasn't committed to Sully playing his way through his mistakes.
2. Terry and Lee. Both guys have to take responsibility for their poor play, but Doc has to take responsibility for his either stupid or lazy decision to just force each of them into the role Ray used to play on this team, ignoring the fact that neither of them are Ray, that Ray was sick of playing the role himself and that the role had become less and less effective.
3. Darko. Doc probably wasn't the only or even the main reason Darko abandoned ship, but getting exiled to the bench after just 5 minutes of regular season play couldn't have helped. And let me point out that Avery Bradley pretty consistently looked like hot garbage during his rookie season and the start of his second year, yet Doc continued to give him minutes. Darko, however, got the "Nenad Krstic in the playoffs 2 years ago" treatment for reasons only Doc knows.
4. Defense. Again, the players are at fault but there's no way this team should look this bad. Coaching has to be playing a part in it, such as realizing there are situations when Terry really can't be on the floor.
5. Waiting until nearly 30 games into the season before realizing this team needs to play at a faster pace. That's the one thing I like about the Clipper game. The team was clearly committed to trying to run and play within a freer, less stagnant offense. The problem was that Boston is now trying to learn that style and the Clippers have it down pat.
Mike
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People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.
What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.
Seriously, use some logic.
Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.
What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?
Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.
so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.
what is doc responsible for then?
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Doc has proven himself to be a good coach, certainly above average by NBA standards, and you can't blame him for players getting old or just flat out sucking.
But this season there are probably more things that you clearly CAN blame Doc for than at maybe anytime during his tenure in Boston.
1. Sully. He clearly fell in love with the guy and put him in the starting lineup, but then wasn't willing to allow Sully to go through the inevitable growing pains that all rookies have. It was beyond dump to yank Bass out of the starting line up if Doc wasn't committed to Sully playing his way through his mistakes.
2. Terry and Lee. Both guys have to take responsibility for their poor play, but Doc has to take responsibility for his either stupid or lazy decision to just force each of them into the role Ray used to play on this team, ignoring the fact that neither of them are Ray, that Ray was sick of playing the role himself and that the role had become less and less effective.
3. Darko. Doc probably wasn't the only or even the main reason Darko abandoned ship, but getting exiled to the bench after just 5 minutes of regular season play couldn't have helped. And let me point out that Avery Bradley pretty consistently looked like hot garbage during his rookie season and the start of his second year, yet Doc continued to give him minutes. Darko, however, got the "Nenad Krstic in the playoffs 2 years ago" treatment for reasons only Doc knows.
4. Defense. Again, the players are at fault but there's no way this team should look this bad. Coaching has to be playing a part in it, such as realizing there are situations when Terry really can't be on the floor.
5. Waiting until nearly 30 games into the season before realizing this team needs to play at a faster pace. That's the one thing I like about the Clipper game. The team was clearly committed to trying to run and play within a freer, less stagnant offense. The problem was that Boston is now trying to learn that style and the Clippers have it down pat.
Mike
I'm totatlly with you on Sully in the starting lineup. I was so pumped to see him get the starts, then was disappointed in Doc that he yanked him so quick.
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You know what the Celtics need? Some SVG! Don't you guys miss that whiny nasally voice screaming out "DEFENSE" and stomping his short little legs up and down the sideline.
Sorry guys Doc is a great coach and those of you who want to fire him aren't paying attention. He is one of 3 reasons any free agents will come here. I'm keeping him.
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I don't give out credit for losing. This whole *Being up 3-2* thing is silly to me. Doesn't matter if you get swept or lose in 7. Before Lee came here he was considered a very solid defender and solid player all around. Now all of a sudden he sucks and can't do squat right. Terry, great ray allen replacement. Well, until you try to use him exactly the way you used ray allen. I can go on and on, this team is better than this. Doc isn't putting them in the best possible situation to succeed.
TP for that
Totally agree. And that up 3-2 argument is not the best to bring up, ESPECIALLY for Doc, who is a pro of losing when up 3-2
2009, Up 3-2 to the Magic but lost
2010, Up 3-2 to the Lakers but lost
2012, Up 3-2 to the Heat but lost
Doc reminds me alot of Spoelstra. Average coach, but needs a team with overwhelming talent to overcome his coaching deficiencies. And if he's only good for motivational speeches, I rather Richard Simmons be the Celtic's coach
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Anyone who wants to fire Doc should first come up with a list of 8 NBA teams who you would be willing to swap head coaches with.
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What Doc needs is a Center with a pulse. Not just a hack & foul giver! Jason Collins shouldn't be in the league anymore & yet he's starting. Awful! I thought Darko should have been starting game 1 & playing 25-30 mins a game. Barbosa should also be playing & getting significant minutes at backup PG, The J.T. experiment at as back up PG is a train wreck. Also Jeff Green needs to start at the 3, Put Pierce at 2 & go make a play in a trade for a real center by dealing Bass, Melo, Lee & only include Sully if its a bonafide borderline allstar or future stud. But something needs to done very quickly when the trade season is official because that new unit will need time to gel. We can't win without a true center, KG is not a strong enough rebounder to play there anymore.
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Anyone who wants to fire Doc should first come up with a list of 8 NBA teams who you would be willing to swap head coaches with.
I have yet to see a person in this thread say they want doc fired. I see legit constructive criticisms. Now i think the guy that started the "doc needs to go" thread wanted him gone but he is the ONLY one i can think of.
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People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.
What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.
Seriously, use some logic.
Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.
What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?
Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.
so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.
what is doc responsible for then?
1. Pierce has been ball hogging for a long time. Its not just now. He ball hogs when we win, as well as when we lose. You can't hold Doc responsible for that. Doc is not dumb that he wouldn't tell Pierce to stop hogging. Pierce does it at will, and Doc can't do anything about it. Unless you want Pierce to be benched and then say good bye to hopes of winning.
2. JET is missing simple shots. He misses shots on wide-open looks. Doc is responsible for that? JET is playing out of position and once Bradley returns, JET will go back to his primary position of being a pure scorer off the bench, but Bradley isn't back yet. You want to hold Doc responsible for making sure Bradley is fully ready to come back so he doesn't get injured again?
3. Barbosa has been having family problems, hence he wasn't playing. You want to hold Doc responsible for him having family problems?
4. Its the players job to adapt to the situation and play according to it. If there is 2 seconds left to make a player and you are down three, you are not going to post up, you will take a three.
5. Sullinger doesn't post up because he is undersized, in case you didn't notice. Doc made it pretty clear in the beginning of the season that he would put KG or some tall player next to Sullinger most of the times he is on the court, so he doesn't get outplayed by taller opponents. Sullinger didn't score 16 points by posting up.
6. Green scored 16+ on multiple occasions. Are you saying that Doc told him to score then, and told him not to score now? Its Green who is not scoring, not Doc.
Of course, I can't really say anything if you hold Doc responsible for JET missing wide open shots, or Doc taking precautions for Bradley, or Barbosa having family problems, players adapting to in-game situations, or Sullinger being undersized, or Green not playing consistently.
There is more to it than just holding Doc responsible for every single thing. Of course, I can't argue with you if you will just come back and blame everything on Doc again. If you are, then go cry somewhere else.
One more thing, as someone else said, Doc is one of the major reasons free agents actually want to come here. Lee came here because of Doc. There is a reason Doc Rivers was selected as the coach most players want to play for (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/). KG signed back because of Doc. We play like a family and have made this team a brotherhood because of Doc. Part of the reason Wilcox and Green wanted to come back here so bad was because of Doc.
Oh, and I am sure you were one of those people last year who were crying about Doc being "awful" and all when they were under .500 last year before the all-star break.
Lastly, if you are going to reply with another short post questioning what I said above and then say "wow. just wow" then you might as well not say anything.
I gave the reasons I needed to. I, and I am sure many others, could care less what you and others like you want to say against Doc.
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Anyone who wants to fire Doc should first come up with a list of 8 NBA teams who you would be willing to swap head coaches with.
I have yet to see a person in this thread say they want doc fired. I see legit constructive criticisms. Now i think the guy that started the "doc needs to go" thread wanted him gone but he is the ONLY one i can think of.
There have been lots of people in other threads saying that Doc should be fired. I think that is what the previous poster is referring to. There have been a number of threads on this topic already.
But that aside, I don't really know what you want then? Of course everyone in the organization shoulders part of the responsibility that comes with not meeting expectations of the team. Do you want Doc to come to your house and apologize? What exactly would = not getting a free pass?
If you don't want Doc fired and replaced with a new coach what do you want? You already have the right to complain about Doc every day (and you do).
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:o you are blaming DOC for the horrible play of the bench???? I wish someone would have told me that doc is the reason bass can't rebound or stop shooting jump shots and go in for an easy dunk as big and athletic as he is! i also wish someone would have told me that doc is also the reason that jeff green plays soft, looks like a dear in headlights most of the time and doesn't look to take a shot or even try to be a leader off the bench.... wow someone who has figured it out DOC is the reason for the short-comings..... ( the guy with a championship ring and easily top 5 best coach in the nba) STOP IT!!!! >:(
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
Oh so we're gonna forget the 4 titles he won prior?
Phil Jackson has 10+ titles. When his Laker team got swept in 2011 by the Mavs, no one said a word about Phil. You know why? Cause he won 10+ titles
Same reason why no one said anything about Pat Riley when he had a 15-67 record one season when he coached the Heat
Any great coach with alot of achievements is allowed to suck. I bet if Doc won 5 titles, this thread wouldn't have been made. Sorry, just the way things are
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People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.
What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.
Seriously, use some logic.
Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.
What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?
Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.
so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.
what is doc responsible for then?
1. Pierce has been ball hogging for a long time. Its not just now. He ball hogs when we win, as well as when we lose. You can't hold Doc responsible for that. Doc is not dumb that he wouldn't tell Pierce to stop hogging. Pierce does it at will, and Doc can't do anything about it. Unless you want Pierce to be benched and then say good bye to hopes of winning.
2. JET is missing simple shots. He misses shots on wide-open looks. Doc is responsible for that? JET is playing out of position and once Bradley returns, JET will go back to his primary position of being a pure scorer off the bench, but Bradley isn't back yet. You want to hold Doc responsible for making sure Bradley is fully ready to come back so he doesn't get injured again?
3. Barbosa has been having family problems, hence he wasn't playing. You want to hold Doc responsible for him having family problems?
4. Its the players job to adapt to the situation and play according to it. If there is 2 seconds left to make a player and you are down three, you are not going to post up, you will take a three.
5. Sullinger doesn't post up because he is undersized, in case you didn't notice. Doc made it pretty clear in the beginning of the season that he would put KG or some tall player next to Sullinger most of the times he is on the court, so he doesn't get outplayed by taller opponents. Sullinger didn't score 16 points by posting up.
6. Green scored 16+ on multiple occasions. Are you saying that Doc told him to score then, and told him not to score now? Its Green who is not scoring, not Doc.
Of course, I can't really say anything if you hold Doc responsible for JET missing wide open shots, or Doc taking precautions for Bradley, or Barbosa having family problems, players adapting to in-game situations, or Sullinger being undersized, or Green not playing consistently.
There is more to it than just holding Doc responsible for every single thing. Of course, I can't argue with you if you will just come back and blame everything on Doc again. If you are, then go cry somewhere else.
One more thing, as someone else said, Doc is one of the major reasons free agents actually want to come here. Lee came here because of Doc. There is a reason Doc Rivers was selected as the coach most players want to play for (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/). KG signed back because of Doc. We play like a family and have made this team a brotherhood because of Doc. Part of the reason Wilcox and Green wanted to come back here so bad was because of Doc.
Oh, and I am sure you were one of those people last year who were crying about Doc being "awful" and all when they were under .500 last year before the all-star break.
Lastly, if you are going to reply with another short post questioning what I said above and then say "wow. just wow" then you might as well not say anything.
I gave the reasons I needed to. I, and I am sure many others, could care less what you and others like you want to say against Doc.
nope. you could not be more wrong about me.
However, nice dodges i see especially on how he is using JET like RA. you cannot rebutt many questions I posed. You tap danced around them with doublespeak. SO you saying doc has no say so with PP? how is that coaching? DO not tell me sully cannot use his body down low more. I am not the only one saying this. Or green in a mismatch. I'll reply as I please. Not my problem you get mad when constructive criticisms of doc are made and you have no rebuttal.
Last I checked i gave doc credit for attacking the last 2 games win or lose. Did i not? Now using your mindset that is on the players and not doc right?
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
Oh so we're gonna forget the 4 titles he won prior?
Phil Jackson has 10+ titles. When his Laker team got swept in 2011 by the Mavs, no one said a word about Phil. You know why? Cause he won 10+ titles
Same reason why no one said anything about Pat Riley when he had a 15-67 record one season when he coached the Heat
Any great coach with alot of achievements is allowed to suck. I bet if Doc won 5 titles, this thread wouldn't have been made. Sorry, just the way things are
YUP...well said.
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I think Doc should shelter most of the blame for this team's play so far. I feel like he is forcing players to fit into his system instead of tailoring the system around the players. How Jet is being used being a prime example.
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This is on everyone, but I would say Doc's sense of urgency is greater the the players. I put more of the blame on their poor performance on them then Doc.
Doc can't make Rondo be more aggressive going to the basket and looking to score more.
Doc can't make KG get on the block more.
Doc can't make Jeff Green look to score more.
Doc can't make AB get healthy.
Doc can't make Lee and Terry hit open shots.
Doc can stress these things, point them out when reviewing film, etc. but ultimately these guys have to do it on the court while playing.
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Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.
Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.
Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.
Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.
Oh so we're gonna forget the 4 titles he won prior?
Phil Jackson has 10+ titles. When his Laker team got swept in 2011 by the Mavs, no one said a word about Phil. You know why? Cause he won 10+ titles
Same reason why no one said anything about Pat Riley when he had a 15-67 record one season when he coached the Heat
Any great coach with alot of achievements is allowed to suck. I bet if Doc won 5 titles, this thread wouldn't have been made. Sorry, just the way things are
Very very well said and you're right 100percent.
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Doc can't make KG get on the block more.
Doc can't make Jeff Green look to score more.
Doc can't make Lee and Terry hit open shots.
Doc can stress these things, point them out when reviewing film, etc. but ultimately these guys have to do it on the court while playing.
1. If Boston is running Doc's very structured half-court offense, Doc can certainly call plays from the bench to get KG and Green the ball in scoring positions. How many times does it ever look like a play is caled for Green?
2. Doc is certainly to blame for forcing each player into roles they're not comfortable with and haven't played in the past.
3. What fuels some of the anti-Doc sentiment is that it seems like a lot of folks assume Doc is doing everything right. But this season, more than most, has some glaring examples where it was Doc's decision that was bad as much or more than the player's execution.
Mike
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Without quoting everything i just read let me touch on a few things. First of all I'm not suggesting firing doc, not now. This thread was made for the guys that like to blame just about everything and everyone but look right over the coach.
Wanna know the HUGE different between doc and pop? First of all lets start with 4 championships to 1. That's a big enough difference all in itself. Now lets get on the fact how pops teams preform well in the regular season most years.
Which means his team is getting homecourt advantage. Which means he is putting his team in a good position come playoff time. Not to mention he plays in a superior conference in my opinion. Phil has a great track record. Pop has a great track record. Doc? He won a championship. I mean, erik spoelstra has a similar track record to doc just over the last two years lol.
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Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.
Everyone forgets that last year was completely skewed because of the strike. Every veteran Celtics player was out of shape, which was the main reason for their awful record at the all star break. They do not have that excuse this year. They have had 28 games and they look worse now than they did earlier in the season. They have lost 5 of their last 7 games and find it hard to beat any team that has a little more than a pulse. This isn't last year.
This. Also, you can't presume that just because something worked last year, it'll work again this year.
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People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.
What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.
Seriously, use some logic.
Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.
What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?
Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.
so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.
what is doc responsible for then?
1. Pierce has been ball hogging for a long time. Its not just now. He ball hogs when we win, as well as when we lose. You can't hold Doc responsible for that. Doc is not dumb that he wouldn't tell Pierce to stop hogging. Pierce does it at will, and Doc can't do anything about it. Unless you want Pierce to be benched and then say good bye to hopes of winning.
2. JET is missing simple shots. He misses shots on wide-open looks. Doc is responsible for that? JET is playing out of position and once Bradley returns, JET will go back to his primary position of being a pure scorer off the bench, but Bradley isn't back yet. You want to hold Doc responsible for making sure Bradley is fully ready to come back so he doesn't get injured again?
3. Barbosa has been having family problems, hence he wasn't playing. You want to hold Doc responsible for him having family problems?
4. Its the players job to adapt to the situation and play according to it. If there is 2 seconds left to make a player and you are down three, you are not going to post up, you will take a three.
5. Sullinger doesn't post up because he is undersized, in case you didn't notice. Doc made it pretty clear in the beginning of the season that he would put KG or some tall player next to Sullinger most of the times he is on the court, so he doesn't get outplayed by taller opponents. Sullinger didn't score 16 points by posting up.
6. Green scored 16+ on multiple occasions. Are you saying that Doc told him to score then, and told him not to score now? Its Green who is not scoring, not Doc.
Of course, I can't really say anything if you hold Doc responsible for JET missing wide open shots, or Doc taking precautions for Bradley, or Barbosa having family problems, players adapting to in-game situations, or Sullinger being undersized, or Green not playing consistently.
There is more to it than just holding Doc responsible for every single thing. Of course, I can't argue with you if you will just come back and blame everything on Doc again. If you are, then go cry somewhere else.
One more thing, as someone else said, Doc is one of the major reasons free agents actually want to come here. Lee came here because of Doc. There is a reason Doc Rivers was selected as the coach most players want to play for (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/). KG signed back because of Doc. We play like a family and have made this team a brotherhood because of Doc. Part of the reason Wilcox and Green wanted to come back here so bad was because of Doc.
Oh, and I am sure you were one of those people last year who were crying about Doc being "awful" and all when they were under .500 last year before the all-star break.
Lastly, if you are going to reply with another short post questioning what I said above and then say "wow. just wow" then you might as well not say anything.
I gave the reasons I needed to. I, and I am sure many others, could care less what you and others like you want to say against Doc.
nope. you could not be more wrong about me.
However, nice dodges i see especially on how he is using JET like RA. you cannot rebutt many questions I posed. You tap danced around them with doublespeak. SO you saying doc has no say so with PP? how is that coaching? DO not tell me sully cannot use his body down low more. I am not the only one saying this. Or green in a mismatch. I'll reply as I please. Not my problem you get mad when constructive criticisms of doc are made and you have no rebuttal.
Last I checked i gave doc credit for attacking the last 2 games win or lose. Did i not? Now using your mindset that is on the players and not doc right?
Uhh, first, I didn't try to "tap dance" around any questions. Second, I am not online on this forum 24/7, nor do I have the time to write an in-depth analysis that answers each of your questions 100%. Third, I don't know what made you think I was mad, but ok. Fourth, I don't think Sully posting up is beneficial to us, regardless of whether he can do it or not.
Lastly, I never talked anything about Doc using JET like RA. You brought that up, so I didn't really "dodge" it.
If Doc was at fault for Green not performing well, then Green wouldn't have had multiple games with 16+ points. You are being delusional by blaming Doc for that.
One more thing, as for Pierce ball-hogging, Kobe ball hogs too. So does Westbrook. Carmelo does it too. So does Rudy Gay. James Harden does it occasionally. Vince Carter also does it. Should all coaches be fired for that?
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I will say that someone like pop would find a way to make guys like Jeff green and Courtney lee fill roles perfectly and be pretty successful players. He has done it with less talent.
Not a knock on doc though, he just wants players to play his way or the highway. And his way works when people eventually get it.