CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: cman88 on December 22, 2012, 09:40:59 AM
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"I don't want to put it on one player, but when [Avery [Bradley] comes back, we're going to be a completely different team," said Rondo. "He'll help us out a lot, especially on the defensive end. He's a physical guard and I think we need that type of effort, that type of energy that he brings to the game and it's kind of contagious."
Then in a brief moment of levity, Rondo stared into a television camera and declared, "So I'm putting all the pressure on you, Avery. No, I'm just playing."
I'm actually in agreeance with this, and I think we will start to play better as a team once he is back in the starting lineup.
1. Our defense last year was poor until we inserted Bradley into the starting lineup.\
2. our starting lineup has been 4/5 of the same guys but has been poor..the one guy they are missing: Avery Bradley.
if you have an Elite perimiter defender, and an elite defender as a Big, it is going to cover up for alot of the mistakes of others.
alot of these games we are losing we cant stop the other teams perimeter players...Bradley can bottle up those guys
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Bradley may certainly help. But I don't think the pressure he puts on the opposing guards will entirely compensate for the fact that the big men cannot rotate or stop pick and rolls right now.
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I couldn't agree more with Rondo. Bradley is very important.
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Bradley won't hurt, but what this team needs
now is a low-post offensive presence beyond
Pierce. Pierce is going to burn out charging
the basket alone. We need 1-2 BIGS who can
get in the paint and rebound.
Without that, this team is going nowhere.
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I couldn't agree more with Rondo. Bradley is very important.
And he shouldn't be, but looking at how we play, it's become.clear that he's indeed very important.
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More Players, just WHAT Doc needs :'(
p.s. I am not saying the team doesnt.
The only way this will work with Cs coached as they are is
if after Bradley comes back They pull a 4 for one trade, shorten the roster get a Prime Center and give doc 8 players who actually are commited to play D and play decent offense.
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I'm sure what Rondo really wanted to say was that Bradley will cover up most of Rondo's defensive deficiencies, which are the cause of all of the dribble penetration and the pressure on our big men to step up and cover for him.
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I guess Rondo's been reading too much CelticsBlog. :P
I am very excited for Avery's return. I don't think he's the key to making us a contender, but he's certainly going to help in a big way.
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ya, but if you have a guard who is an elite defender and can guard the pick & roll and keep opposing guards from getting past you it elimiinates the need for your bigs to step up.
everyone is focused on the bigs, but we were an elite team defensivly last year with bass at the 4 and KG at the 5...the only difference was we had an elite defender in Bradley starting...right now we are starting Jason Terry
the problem isnt our bigs, its the inability of our guards to cover anyone. when guards get penetration they have to leave their man and the bigs have to step up.
thats why guys like Splitter etc. are left so wide open. KG has to step out.
imagine Bradley on monte ellis last night instead of Terry...I would imagine he wouldnt get into the paint as much. or would have to work MUCH harder to get his shots off
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It will be nice to see Bradley back but he isnt going to be a savior by any means. I just dont see the need to panic like 85% of celtics nation at the moment. Inserting Bradley into the lineup will help but I still think we need to make a trade for a starting center to put us over the top.
At the moment, the only thing that can "save" this team is themselves.
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We will be better, but I don't think Bradley is the difference between a 500 team and a contender
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This vid sounds a bit like OUR situation..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGZCKlonx78
Can't wait until AB gets back.
No..he's not an MVP candidate. He's not even a "Core" player, yet.
But to all the Non-Believers:
Can't Wait..until AB gets back.
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We will be better, but I don't think Bradley is the difference between a 500 team and a contender
it nearly was last year...it also helped that Stiemsma became a legit rotation big though defensively
when you replace arguably your worst defensive wing(terry) with an elite one(bradley) it has to help improve yoru team defense
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We will be better, but I don't think Bradley is the difference between a 500 team and a contender
I don't either but I do think Bradley is the difference from a Brooklyn Nets level team (first or second round of playoffs and out) and a legitimate title contender.
I think Bradley, in addition to the Big Three, is the piece that puts Boston in the title mix.
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Bradley is an elite defensive player...probably the 2nd best on our team besides KG...when you add a player like that to the lineup it IS going to have an effect on the way you play because he can cover up for alot of our other players deficiencies
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It will. Outside of Bradley's defense there one thing I really like from this kid. He's good off the ball. He knows where to position himself once Rondo penetrates the lane, I've seen this a ton last year. He knows where and when to cut. That means a few more easy shots.
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Bradley was a 50/40/80% shooter the first time in an NBA rotation (50/46/80% as a starter). Besides playing top of the league defense, he added some punch to the offense.
He also got out on the break with Rondo, and was excellent at taking advantage of the room under the hoop when KG spread the floor on offense.
It will be interesting to see if AB can build off last year's success. Even if he brings the same thing as last year, 12/3/2 with great defense, the team will be better, but maybe he can make a leap to an 18 ppg guy.
I learned not to doubt Avery Bradley last season. To begin the year, he looked like one of the worst players in the entire league. The poor guy has gone another year without the benefit of a training camp, but he should be used to it by now.
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I'm more excited about Bradley's effect on his teammates than how much he'll actually produce on the court. Last year his energy and ball pressure rubbed off on the others and they really got locked into the defense.
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Bradley is the only reason i still have hope for this team. I'm waiting to see how we perform after he gets back. We have enough scoring, we need better defense.
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Bradley is an elite defensive player...probably the 2nd best on our team besides KG...when you add a player like that to the lineup it IS going to have an effect on the way you play because he can cover up for alot of our other players deficiencies
It will definitely have an effect. It won't make them a contender.
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Bradley is an elite defensive player...probably the 2nd best on our team besides KG...when you add a player like that to the lineup it IS going to have an effect on the way you play because he can cover up for alot of our other players deficiencies
It will definitely have an effect. It won't make them a contender.
As long as the effect isnt confusing our coach a little more
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I'm excited for Avery to come back. I'm keeping my expectations low, but i'm excited to have him back. Also, I think once he comes back it kind of makes a trade necessary. We have too many solid bench guards. It doesn't make sense for a quality player like LeAndro Barbosa to get a DNP. We kind of HAVE to make a trade once Bradley is back. (unless someone gets injured ... crossing my fingers that doesn't happen)
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Bradley is an elite defensive player...probably the 2nd best on our team besides KG...when you add a player like that to the lineup it IS going to have an effect on the way you play because he can cover up for alot of our other players deficiencies
It will definitely have an effect. It won't make them a contender.
Did last year. Once he became a starter everything changed.
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double post
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
Amazing, but it's looking like it's true - the bolded part.
Avery Bradley, in just a short stint in our lineup late last season, evidently shook up the league enough to get defensive team votes, AND get ranked around 100 (out of 500 NBA players, I believe), by those ESPN writers last summer.
My guess is that AB will continue to work hard, and we'll continue to see his game evolve and get even better. If this happens, he'll project even further up the food chain - and help BOS.
IMO, he has NO pressure...just keep doing your thing, AB...Defense. The rest will take care of itself.
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Bradley is an elite defensive player...probably the 2nd best on our team besides KG...when you add a player like that to the lineup it IS going to have an effect on the way you play because he can cover up for alot of our other players deficiencies
It will definitely have an effect. It won't make them a contender.
Did last year. Once he became a starter everything changed.
Last year they had more than one big guy who could play defense. Last year they had a big guy who could block shots. Plus, to be honest, I look at last year as an anomaly given the strike-shortened season. Don't get me wrong. I am looking forward to getting Avery back, but he is not the savior.
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
Great point.
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
The team isn't the favorite but isn't the hopeless and has a smaller room for error in its title hopes. There is no realistic trade that will improve that.
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Bradley is an elite defensive player...probably the 2nd best on our team besides KG...when you add a player like that to the lineup it IS going to have an effect on the way you play because he can cover up for alot of our other players deficiencies
It will definitely have an effect. It won't make them a contender.
Did last year. Once he became a starter everything changed.
Last year they had more than one big guy who could play defense. Last year they had a big guy who could block shots. Plus, to be honest, I look at last year as an anomaly given the strike-shortened season. Don't get me wrong. I am looking forward to getting Avery back, but he is not the savior.
I don't know if I'd call him a savior. We're not consistently winning but I still feel this team is a contender. Playoffs and regular season are nothing alike. Game planning for an opponent is almost non-existent in the regular season.
We're capable of beating anyone 4 out of 7 times and as a result were a contender. There are few teams I believe this about. Our big problem is consistent effort and energy. Everything is in spurts especially defensively. AB really helps improve that bc he never let's up and it's contagious. The others feed off it and emulate it better as a result.
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Wallace, who had been serving as Tyson Chandler's backup at center, has missed the past four games, during which the Knicks have gone 2-2. With Wallace out, Chandler has been playing additional minutes. Not only is Wallace out, but Marcus Camby has plantar fasciitis.
Age may be catching up with the Knicks.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8772600/new-york-knicks-list-rasheed-wallace-day-day-stress-reaction-foot-amare-stoudemire-out
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its not just that averys defense helps compensate for others mistakes...its also that it seems the team just plays harder when they see how much effort he is giving out there on defense.
for a team that seems to be turning defensive intensity on-and-off it would help seeing this kid giving 100% no matter if he is guarding jameer nelson or Dwayne wade
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8365342/2012-nba-player-rankings-101-120
Right below Nikola Pekovic and right above Shane Battier.
If/When Avery Bradley has as big of a jump this season as Nikola has so far, then watch out, NBA - BOS's coming. :)
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Wallace, who had been serving as Tyson Chandler's backup at center, has missed the past four games, during which the Knicks have gone 2-2. With Wallace out, Chandler has been playing additional minutes. Not only is Wallace out, but Marcus Camby has plantar fasciitis.
Age may be catching up with the Knicks.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8772600/new-york-knicks-list-rasheed-wallace-day-day-stress-reaction-foot-amare-stoudemire-out
I don't think the Knicks are too concerned at losing Wallace or Camby. They weren't expecting much more from those two other than to hold the fort until Amare returns, which is just about now.
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Bradley may certainly help. But I don't think the pressure he puts on the opposing guards will entirely compensate for the fact that the big men cannot rotate or stop pick and rolls right now.
Our "big men" last year were Greg Stiemsma and Ryan Hollins.
Plz.
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Bradley may certainly help. But I don't think the pressure he puts on the opposing guards will entirely compensate for the fact that the big men cannot rotate or stop pick and rolls right now.
Our "big men" last year were Greg Stiemsma and Ryan Hollins.
Plz.
lol right. I think this will be a repeat of last year when we took off in the second half.
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Wallace, who had been serving as Tyson Chandler's backup at center, has missed the past four games, during which the Knicks have gone 2-2. With Wallace out, Chandler has been playing additional minutes. Not only is Wallace out, but Marcus Camby has plantar fasciitis.
Age may be catching up with the Knicks.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8772600/new-york-knicks-list-rasheed-wallace-day-day-stress-reaction-foot-amare-stoudemire-out
I don't think the Knicks are too concerned at losing Wallace or Camby. They weren't expecting much more from those two other than to hold the fort until Amare returns, which is just about now.
They still got Kurt Thomas. He can hold down the fort while those get better.
Knicks should be fine.
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Oh, so Rondo's actually going to try to defend when Bradley comes back?
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I think Bradley will start doing for the Celts what Tebow did for the Broncos last year. Suddenly the defense will start playing real well and they'll look like an actual team that can and does pull out games. Then other players will get the credit.
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Oh, so Rondo's actually going to try to defend when Bradley comes back?
No, Bradley will help cove up Rondo's defensive breakdowns.
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"We’re going to be a completely different team, just with one player coming back," said Rondo, whose frustration and desire for a change in the Celtics’ 13-13 start couldn’t be more feverish. And then there’s this corollary to the last comment: "I think (Bradley is) the X Factor. He’s going to be the key to why we win the championship. He brings a lot to the team in terms of intangibles, the way he cuts offensively. His pressure defensively is going to raise everyone else’s pressure. His defense is going to make us a lot better."
a new quote from Rondo...he's really putting alot on Bradley..hopefully he takes the pressure to heart and performs
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"We’re going to be a completely different team, just with one player coming back," said Rondo, whose frustration and desire for a change in the Celtics’ 13-13 start couldn’t be more feverish. And then there’s this corollary to the last comment: "I think (Bradley is) the X Factor. He’s going to be the key to why we win the championship. He brings a lot to the team in terms of intangibles, the way he cuts offensively. His pressure defensively is going to raise everyone else’s pressure. His defense is going to make us a lot better."
a new quote from Rondo...he's really putting alot on Bradley..hopefully he takes the pressure to heart and performs
I agree with Rajon
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TEbow ?
boy can ball :o
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hope he can rebound and block if thats the case
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"We’re going to be a completely different team, just with one player coming back," said Rondo, whose frustration and desire for a change in the Celtics’ 13-13 start couldn’t be more feverish. And then there’s this corollary to the last comment: "I think (Bradley is) the X Factor. He’s going to be the key to why we win the championship. He brings a lot to the team in terms of intangibles, the way he cuts offensively. His pressure defensively is going to raise everyone else’s pressure. His defense is going to make us a lot better."
a new quote from Rondo...he's really putting alot on Bradley..hopefully he takes the pressure to heart and performs
Rondo is putting way too much pressure on Bradley. Can anyone explain to me how exactly Avery is going to improve our paint defense, rebounding, and shot-blocking woes?
Look, I love Bradley, and I think he is going to help us in many ways. But he is definitely not our key to winning a championship.
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well, he will easily help our paint defense by the fact that guards wont be able to penetrate as much and KG/collins etc. WONT have to step out and help leaving their man open
this is what people dont get. it doesnt matter how good of a defender your big is if he has to leave his man to help every defensive trip
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different yes, better...no
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well, he will easily help our paint defense by the fact that guards wont be able to penetrate as much and KG/collins etc. WONT have to step out and help leaving their man open
this is what people dont get. it doesnt matter how good of a defender your big is if he has to leave his man to help every defensive trip
AB can get over picks like no one else too. That means less need to hedge for bigs. When we show on picks, guys like Boozer end up with dunks.
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Wallace, who had been serving as Tyson Chandler's backup at center, has missed the past four games, during which the Knicks have gone 2-2. With Wallace out, Chandler has been playing additional minutes. Not only is Wallace out, but Marcus Camby has plantar fasciitis.
Age may be catching up with the Knicks.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8772600/new-york-knicks-list-rasheed-wallace-day-day-stress-reaction-foot-amare-stoudemire-out
I don't think the Knicks are too concerned at losing Wallace or Camby. They weren't expecting much more from those two other than to hold the fort until Amare returns, which is just about now.
Wallace can play defense, especially when Chandler is on the bench. Amare? The Knicks have been there before.
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For those of you guys who have 2K13 I am sure that you hear the comentator say this all the time. Last year celtics were a 500 club at the all star break and decided change was needed. That change was benching Allen and starting Bradley, they also moved KG to Center and started Bass at PF at around the same time. Result the Celtics were the best D in the league for the 2nd half of the season.
That being said :
1. Doc has said interview after interview that when our D gets better it will lead to better O. If we become the best D in the league last year why cant we now.
2. I remember an interview with Bradley last year where he was talking about using Allens pre-game prep routine to improve his shooting. I think that showed last year in his jumper through out the year. hopefully that is still the case.
3. People constantly forget that coming out of High school this kid was the #1 ranked prospect ahead of Wall. That is pretty good.
4. I think the Collins starting thing is a glimpse of what to come. Not saying that he is the answer but i think the C's have realized that bass is not working out and want to move KG back to Pf. I think from now until the trade Deadline this will mean a move for a Center.
That is what I think Bradley will mean to this team and also agree with Rondo. Yes I am a glass half full guy with this, and I hope I am right.
sorry if that was long
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well, he will easily help our paint defense by the fact that guards wont be able to penetrate as much and KG/collins etc. WONT have to step out and help leaving their man open
this is what people dont get. it doesnt matter how good of a defender your big is if he has to leave his man to help every defensive trip
AB can get over picks like no one else too. That means less need to hedge for bigs. When we show on picks, guys like Boozer end up with dunks.
Let's not forget that Doc puts a ton of value on ball pressure, and we have probably the best on-ball defender in the league coming back in a few games.
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Rondo knows the opposing guards won't be blowing by him and crumbling our defense anymore.
We will still need a lot of players to start doing their jobs (Terry has been pretty bad 90% of the time, Lee 95%), but I do believe AB will change the identity of this team back to a defensive powerhouse.
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Rondo knows the opposing guards won't be blowing by him and crumbling our defense anymore.
We will still need a lot of players to start doing their jobs (Terry has been pretty bad 90% of the time, Lee 95%), but I do believe AB will change the identity of this team back to a defensive powerhouse.
That's a complete exageration.
For one, Lee is shooting a career high for us, and he's been doing his job this month (shooting over 50%). His 3-pointer is not all there yet, but it's been better than it was in the beginning of the year. His defense has been solid throughout, could be better, but it's not bad. It just is.
As for Terry, he's not shooting the ball well this month after having a very hot start to the season shooting wise. His defense is not good, but that was a foregone conclusion. It would help some, if Doc didn't keep playing him against player who he shouldn't be guarding in the first place (Monta Ellis), but he's in quite a slump offensively right now. That said, the role Doc has assigned for him is not the role we brought him here to do. He should be coming off the bench, not starting. Also, he's shooting in line with how he was shooting last season, but he's in the middle of a shooting slump right now, hopefully he gets it right again.
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Here's to hoping Danny can pulloff a trade for BIG guy without having to give up Bradley .
Bradleys my fav Celtic next to KG ... :'(
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I had a thought early this morning, thought I would share it:
Why I think RR is saying this (is he AB's agent? lol)
1) It's true
2) B/c he doesn't want AB traded! When someone readily admits the things RR did, that means he truly believes the person is the Robin to his Batman... I mean, if I didn't know that was RR speaking I would think it was AB's mother! I really believe RR is trying to let it be known that he thinks AB is not only key to the team's success but for many reasons a key to his OWN success. RR threw himself under the bus to praise AB (he is literally saying what we can all clearly see, he has been terrible defensively)! No, he hasn't been terrible b/c he doesn't try but b/c of a few things... it takes a toll on his body, he tries to conserve energy for the way our offense is run through him, he plays too many minutes, and b/c that type of defense is just not what he is best at! People underestimates what AB does for the team and especially for our star pg... this is a message to not only truth but to the organization! RR didn't have to say all those things if he didn't feel AB was about to shipped for another piece (even though they are true), he needs a guy like AB to take the pressure off of him just as KG needs someone like Collins (but better)! I actually applaud RR for being so honest, wish more superstars would do it... he's not saying he isn't good enough, he is just saying how he needs others to help maximize his own skills!
I know people say AB has to be part of a package but I'm telling you, RR is letting it be known that he shouldn't be. Who knows if it will work but RR has made it clear to me that he values AB highly (I know others on the team speak well of AB but RR went above and beyond, to me anyway)!
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Your [dang] right we will be.
Bradley is easily our 4th most important player after KG, Pierce and Rondo. He is part of thebackbone of this team. Anyone who says otherwise either:
1. Hasn't seen the statistics or
2. Hasn't watched a game where Bradley played more than 7 minutes
If Danny trades him he MUST be fired. Hell I think I'd rather trade Rondo than Bradley...
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I think having Bradley in the lineup is a positive for the team on the defensive side of the ball, but i'm wondering what the perception will be if the team still plays bad basketball even after his return? Who do we pin our hopes on then? Relying on one guy to turn this team around makes me feel a bit uneasy. As bad as the team is on defense, i think the offense is just as bad to be honest. It's predictable, and all they do is shoot long jumpers. Even if the defense improves with Avery's return, the brand of offense that they play is not the kind of offense that can win championships IMO.
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I think having Bradley in the lineup is a positive for the team on the defensive side of the ball, but i'm wondering what the perception will be if the team still plays bad basketball even after his return? Who do we pin our hopes on then? Relying on one guy to turn this team around makes me feel a bit uneasy. As bad as the team is on defense, i think the offense is just as bad to be honest. It's predictable, and all they do is shoot long jumpers. Even if the defense improves with Avery's return, the brand of offense that they play is not the kind of offense that can win championships IMO.
It's pretty much the same offense he has been running (Doc)... the offense is fine and will click better when the rotations are set (with Jet coming off the bench alongside Lee)... we had not only one of the best defenses ever, with AB starting, we had one of the best offenses too (something I think people overlook b/c of the defense).
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Chicago had so much success last year not because of their scoring, but because of their top 3 defense. Rose is an average defender, so even with him out the bulls were STILL a top 3 defense. Noah, Deng and the bench anchored that defense, and you could argue that any one of those components (Noah especially) was just as important as Rose. This is why when Rose went down Chicago as a team didn't really get much worse, but when Noah AND Rose when down they crumbled. Take away the offense and Chicago can still grind out wins, but take away their defense and they are nothing.
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team. He's an undersized SG in a PG's body. He's not a fantastic shooter but he's great at using his athleticism, ball handling and body control to drive and finish around the basket. He's not a fantastic defender or a fantastic playmaker, but he's at times been forced to play PG simply due to his lack of size and his ability to handle the ball. Still Ellis has averaged ~25PPG over much of his career, and he has pretty much always been the best player on his team. If he played for a mass market team (like NY, Boston, Chicago or LA) with a top 4 record in their conference he would be a guaranteed All-Star and a regular MVP candidate.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated. He's a very good player but he's nowhere near as important to this Bulls team as people belive. Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
Moving on to Boston, and we have had a similar team philosophy - we are all about defense. We have never been a great offensive team, but we have been successful as a team because we have consistently had a top 3 defense in the league. Take away a key offensive player and we can still win with out defense, just like we did when Ray was out with injuries hurt last season. However, take away one of our key defensive pieces (Bradley or Garnett) and we would struggle to make the playoffs simply because we dont have enough scoring power to overcome our weakened defense.
This is why Avery Bradley is not just important, but absolutely CRITICAL to this team. When Ray went out last season, if Bradley never stepped up the way he did defensively we would never had had near the success we did. We would have missed Ray's presence far more. However because Bradley impacted on our defense so dramatically, out defense improved to the point where we were making up for the scoring we lost with Ray (and then some).
Take away one of our key scorers and we can still grind out games, as long as our defense is at an elite (top 3) level - we proved this last year because our offense all season was horrendous. For our defense to be at that level we need both KG and Bradley out there on the court. But if we lose one of those two defenders and our defense drops outside the top 10, we simply do not have enough scoring power to offset that loss. We can't simply outshoot opposing teams. It probagly hurts us more to lose an elite defender (Bradley, KG) then it does to lose an elite offensive player (Rondo, Pierce).
At least that is my theory!
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
Not over - at least not yet. We may still make the playoffs without Bradley, but we would struggle to win a round and have next to no hope of winning a championship.
At last that's assuming we still had our current group and hadn't traded for some other elite gamechanger.
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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?
The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Chicago had so much success last year not because of their scoring, but because of their top 3 defense. Rose is an average defender, so even with him out the bulls were STILL a top 3 defense. Noah, Deng and the bench anchored that defense, and you could argue that any one of those components (Noah especially) was just as important as Rose. This is why when Rose went down Chicago as a team didn't really get much worse, but when Noah AND Rose when down they crumbled. Take away the offense and Chicago can still grind out wins, but take away their defense and they are nothing.
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team. He's an undersized SG in a PG's body. He's not a fantastic shooter but he's great at using his athleticism, ball handling and body control to drive and finish around the basket. He's not a fantastic defender or a fantastic playmaker, but he's at times been forced to play PG simply due to his lack of size and his ability to handle the ball. Still Ellis has averaged ~25PPG over much of his career, and he has pretty much always been the best player on his team. If he played for a mass market team (like NY, Boston, Chicago or LA) with a top 4 record in their conference he would be a guaranteed All-Star and a regular MVP candidate.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated. He's a very good player but he's nowhere near as important to this Bulls team as people belive. Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
Moving on to Boston, and we have had a similar team philosophy - we are all about defense. We have never been a great offensive team, but we have been successful as a team because we have consistently had a top 3 defense in the league. Take away a key offensive player and we can still win with out defense, just like we did when Ray was out with injuries hurt last season. However, take away one of our key defensive pieces (Bradley or Garnett) and we would struggle to make the playoffs simply because we dont have enough scoring power to overcome our weakened defense.
This is why Avery Bradley is not just important, but absolutely CRITICAL to this team. When Ray went out last season, if Bradley never stepped up the way he did defensively we would never had had near the success we did. We would have missed Ray's presence far more. However because Bradley impacted on our defense so dramatically, out defense improved to the point where we were making up for the scoring we lost with Ray (and then some).
Take away one of our key scorers and we can still grind out games, as long as our defense is at an elite (top 3) level - we proved this last year because our offense all season was horrendous. For our defense to be at that level we need both KG and Bradley out there on the court. But if we lose one of those two defenders and our defense drops outside the top 10, we simply do not have enough scoring power to offset that loss. We can't simply outshoot opposing teams. It probagly hurts us more to lose an elite defender (Bradley, KG) then it does to lose an elite offensive player (Rondo, Pierce).
At least that is my theory!
this is Spot on IMO!
bradley is an ELITE defender who'se presence affects how the team plays defense...all the stats from last season show it.
you are going to have poor shooting nights. but as long as you make sure the other team has a WORSE shooting night you still can win...
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The Bulls with Rose were a 60 win team, Spicoli you are delusional.
Bulls might win 40 games this year, they've had a great start but the season is still young.
That is a 20+ game winning difference with Rose on the Bulls. Bradley DOES NOT make up for that many wins with the c's.
And the fact that you say Rose is grossly overpaid when he was a top 5 player when he was healthy is asinine. What top 5 player is not worth the max?
Just stop.
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truthhurts, I dont think his point is to discount rose other than to show that the bulls are winning BECAUSE of their defense.
that same bulls team before thibs and the 60win season was first round fodder...you could say that had to do with youth/maturity...but really the difference was they began to play defense with Thibs.
generally you can survive a poor-shooting night if you make the other team shoot less than you. even if your shot is not falling you can always rely on defense.
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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Rose is an average defender
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team
.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
I don't think any of this is accurate. I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Rose is an average defender
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team
.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
I don't think any of this is accurate. I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
Those statements are ridiculous you must have not watched Rose a lot he's special
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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Rose is an average defender
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team
.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
I don't think any of this is accurate. I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
Those statements are ridiculous you must have not watched Rose a lot he's special
Rose was a MVP for a reason. When heathy he is a top 10 player for sure and probably a top 5 player. People tend to forget a little too quickly b/c Rose is capable of taking over a game at any point.
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Reading through this thread, i would guess that Avery Bradley will be signing a mega contract when the current one is up, will be a perennial all star if he can stay healthy for a full season, and will likely be a hall of famer. I am looking forward to him getting back, but a lot of the stuff I am reading has me scratching my head. The Celtics really can't play defense without Avery Bradley? Every other Celtic player is now going to be much better on defense because of Avery Bradley? All of a sudden guys are going to rotate correctly and be in the right place on defense because of Avery Bradley? The defense has no energy now, but when Bradley comes back it will be energized?
The guy has never played a full season. Yes, he is effective, but the hype seems over the top.
As or Rose, he is. Top 5 player in the NBA, and he is way more important to the Bulls than Bedley is to the Celtics.
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Reading through this thread, i would guess that Avery Bradley will be signing a mega contract when the current one is up, will be a perennial all star if he can stay healthy for a full season, and will likely be a hall of famer. I am looking forward to him getting back, but a lot of the stuff I am reading has me scratching my head. The Celtics really can't play defense without Avery Bradley? Every other Celtic player is now going to be much better on defense because of Avery Bradley? All of a sudden guys are going to rotate correctly and be in the right place on defense because of Avery Bradley? The defense has no energy now, but when Bradley comes back it will be energized?
The guy has never played a full season. Yes, he is effective, but the hype seems over the top.
As or Rose, he is. Top 5 player in the NBA, and he is way more important to the Bulls than Bedley is to the Celtics.
Thank you vinnie.
This basically sums up my thoughts, too. Bradley is a great defender, but it's not like he's going to alter our team drastically. Sure, our defense will be better than it is now, but I don't expect it to be back to what it used to be. I don't think our guys have it in them to do it.
I can't believe how Rose has been treated after his injury. This guy is arguably the most athletic guard in the NBA, can get to the rim at will, and is incredibly humble. While Bradley is important to our success, you cannot compare that to Rose's importance to Chicago.
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I dont think Bradley "alone" impoves the team, its more the fact of what adding just him does to our roster and the trickle down effects
I look at it similarly to how adding just Talib Aqib improved the pats defense. it wasnt that he was "soo great" it improved the team. its the fact that it moved guys to positions that more played to their strengths.
by adding Bradley you replace a poor defender in the starting unit with an excellent one. and put a perennial 6th man of the year contender back into a position where he is most comfortable...that alone improves the team right there.
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Having the Jet and Courtney Lee come off the bench helps too. They seem to work really well together and when Rondo's off the floor. They'll also have more defined roles.
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I dont think Bradley "alone" impoves the team, its more the fact of what adding just him does to our roster and the trickle down effects
I look at it similarly to how adding just Talib Aqib improved the pats defense. it wasnt that he was "soo great" it improved the team. its the fact that it moved guys to positions that more played to their strengths.
by adding Bradley you replace a poor defender in the starting unit with an excellent one. and put a perennial 6th man of the year contender back into a position where he is most comfortable...that alone improves the team right there.
Exactly what I said... it isn't about him being a savior, he just does his job very well which in turn allows others to go back to doing what they do instead of them trying to do what they aren't good at. Heck, people don't need to listen to us about this RR said himself what AB means, I think I will take what the team said over people on the outside. What would PP, RR, KG, and Doc have to lie about when it comes to what AB means to the team defensively (and offensively)... people on here act like We (fans) are just spouting these things at random... I know what I said about AB is not only what I saw, I can post videos/articles of THE PLAYERS saying those things! About energy, his full court D, letting RR be RR, and taking some of the pressure off of everyone by just doing his job and doing it very well... those aren't just my words, it takes little time to find that those are the player's words!
So "you" can miss me with thinking people are saying he will be a perennial All-star and what have you... many people NEVER become All-stars but are huge cogs in what makes their team go! KG is our MVP and one of the best, how did that fair last season when it came time to be an All-star?
Some of you make me laugh!
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I dont think Bradley "alone" impoves the team, its more the fact of what adding just him does to our roster and the trickle down effects
I look at it similarly to how adding just Talib Aqib improved the pats defense. it wasnt that he was "soo great" it improved the team. its the fact that it moved guys to positions that more played to their strengths.
by adding Bradley you replace a poor defender in the starting unit with an excellent one. and put a perennial 6th man of the year contender back into a position where he is most comfortable...that alone improves the team right there.
Exactly what I said... it isn't about him being a savior, he just does his job very well which in turn allows others to go back to doing what they do instead of them trying to do what they aren't good at. Heck, people don't need to listen to us about this RR said himself what AB means, I think I will take what the team said over people on the outside. What would PP, RR, KG, and Doc have to lie about when it comes to what AB means to the team defensively (and offensively)... people on here act like We (fans) are just spouting these things at random... I know what I said about AB is not only what I saw, I can post videos/articles of THE PLAYERS saying those things! About energy, his full court D, letting RR be RR, and taking some of the pressure off of everyone by just doing his job and doing it very well... those aren't just my words, it takes little time to find that those are the player's words!
So "you" can miss me with thinking people are saying he will be a perennial All-star and what have you... many people NEVER become All-stars but are huge cogs in what makes their team go! KG is our MVP and one of the best, how did that fair last season when it came time to be an All-star?
Some of you make me laugh!
He has proven to be an excellent on-ball defender. He still has yet to play an injury-free season. How many total games as he played in his NBA career? He will improve the team, but he will not get the team anywhere near where it needs to be to become a real contender.
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I guess the main thing Bradley will do is give Barbosa a bunch of DNPs. Only so many minutes to go around. I like all 4 of our shooting guards, but I think all of them teeter between "fringe starter" and "solid player off the bench". I'd be happy with 1 of those guys... I dont' see the point of 4 of those guys.
I also don't know if Bradley is an upgrade over Courtney Lee. I think Lee is a great defender in his own right and probably better offensively. He's also bigger than Bradley. We'll see what happens, though.
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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Rose is an average defender
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team
.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
I don't think any of this is accurate. I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
LOL @ the Rose comments.
Only in Boston is Fab Melo the next Akeem and Avery Bradley is more impactful than an MVP player.
Lets dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMjGAimtRc
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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.
Rose is an average defender
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team
.
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.
I don't think any of this is accurate. I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
LOL @ the Rose comments.
Only in Boston is Fab Melo the next Akeem and Avery Bradley is more impactful than an MVP player.
Lets dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMjGAimtRc
"Is this real life??? Or just a fantasyyyy???"