CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 22, 2012, 03:03:55 AM
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I'm tired of Boston's horrible play, and I'm tired of fans making excuses for the Celtics. In the aftermath of their latest debacle, I've seen a couple excuses in particular that just rub me the wrong way.
To wit:
I'm tired of people saying "the effort is there." This has been said after so many Celtic losses this season, but if a team with this much talent was really giving such great effort, they would've snapped out of their funk by now, just by sheer force of will.
I'm tired of people saying, "Ah, the shots just weren't falling tonight, doesn't happen often." I beg to differ. Happens a lot with this team. A lot. And it's bound to happen a lot when all you do is shoot jumpers. Jet's had three clunkers in the last two weeks. Bass can't hit water falling out of a boat. And KG doesn't take 22 shots on nights he is shooting well—heck, usually it's hard work just getting him to take his fair share of shots—so why is he taking 22 on a night he's stinking up the joint?
Yeah, it's a make-or-miss league ... which is a fancy way of saying "the team that scores the most points wins." Duh. If the jumpers aren't falling—as they often aren't with this team—they need to be willing to make in-game adjustments, attacking the basket more, cutting, running pick and ROLL (not pick and pop). The basketball IQ of this team—players AND coaches—is depressingly low right now.
One more game and we'll be a third of the way through the regular season (which is all we'll be playing, at this rate). This has got to change yesterday. Next game is Christmas Day, at Brooklyn; get ready for another dismal performance, thanks to the Nets' dominating size and Boston's inability to do ... well, anything. I hope Bradley provides a big spark, but even if he does, I don't think Boston can wait that long; Danny needs to make a trade or two, including at least one big one, for some legit size and interior D, and for some guys who aren't afraid to take it to the rack. All this passive outside shooting is nonsense.
What are you guys tired of? (And don't say "complaining" or "pessimistic fans"; you've got your "feel good" thread; this is a "not feeling good" thread.)
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I'm a feel good person but...I am frustrated with Doc's rotations and the amount of minutes allocated to certain players. Some can say Bass is in a shooting slump, but I'm starting to think he was a hardworking but one-trick, one-season pony. I think Doc needs to cut down his minutes unless he is being showcased in a trade because Sully can box out and rebound with the best of them. His defense has picked up but he is getting the rookie treatment. I still believe that one of the best lineups we have employed at times is Rondo-Pierce-Green-Sullinger-Garnett and would like to see more of this even after Bradley comes back. I do think there is still time and room for improvement but I'd say I'm tired of the rotations that are constantly being played and not working.
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I'm tired of Boston's horrible play, and I'm tired of fans making excuses for the Celtics. In the aftermath of their latest debacle, I've seen a couple excuses in particular that just rub me the wrong way.
To wit:
I'm tired of people saying "the effort is there." This has been said after so many Celtic losses this season, but if a team with this much talent was really giving such great effort, they would've snapped out of their funk by now, just by sheer force of will.
I'm tired of people saying, "Ah, the shots just weren't falling tonight, doesn't happen often." I beg to differ. Happens a lot with this team. A lot. And it's bound to happen a lot when all you do is shoot jumpers. [/b]Jet's had three clunkers in the last two weeks. Bass can't hit water falling out of a boat. And KG doesn't take 22 shots on nights he is shooting well—heck, usually it's hard work just getting him to take his fair share of shots—so why is he taking 22 on a night he's stinking up the joint?
Yeah, it's a make-or-miss league ... which is a fancy way of saying "the team that scores the most points wins." Duh. If the jumpers aren't falling—as they often aren't with this team—they need to be willing to make in-game adjustments, attacking the basket more, cutting, running pick and ROLL (not pick and pop). The basketball IQ of this team—players AND coaches—is depressingly low right now.
One more game and we'll be a third of the way through the regular season (which is all we'll be playing, at this rate). This has got to change yesterday. Next game is Christmas Day, at Brooklyn; get ready for another dismal performance, thanks to the Nets' dominating size and Boston's inability to do ... well, anything. I hope Bradley provides a big spark, but even if he does, I don't think Boston can wait that long; Danny needs to make a trade or two, including at least one big one, for some legit size and interior D, and for some guys who aren't afraid to take it to the rack. All this passive outside shooting is nonsense.
What are you guys tired of? (And don't say "complaining" or "pessimistic fans"; you've got your "feel good" thread; this is a "not feeling good" thread.)
TOMMY POINT for you! I agree 100%
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Rondo pushes the ball, moves the ball, we play well even when we are missing shots, like the 1st quarter.
Rondo walks the ball up the court, stands around dribbling the ball doing nothing running out the shot-clock, we suck... and we suck majorly when we're not hitting our shots. Like the 4th quarter... heck, just about every 4th quarter in his career.
Until Rondo stops ball-hogging (and yes, that's what he's doing even if he's not shooting it) and until he starts pushing the ball, playing with the speed he's capable of, then we're going to keep struggling. I've never seen a player with his speed, his talent play such a slow game. It's mind boggling. As I believe "Who" mentioned a few days ago, Rondo is the only elite PG who doesn't take advantage and dominate someone like Derek Fisher. I look at all the games, and say to myself "great, Rondo is going to go off against this PG, advantage Boston", and what I keep seeing is a very passive Rondo who can't dominate the players he's supposed to be dominating. He's our big advantage, game in and game out, but rarely delivers what we need him to. I really hate how he runs our team most of the time. I'm the first to admit he's having a good season, a very good one in fact, but he's not doing what we need to in order to win. He needs to step up and stop pointing fingers.
Yes, plenty of players are sucking, but our prosperity is not dependent on them.
So move the [dang] ball, drive to the basket, take the open layups, and stop walking the ball up the floor. I little more consistent defense would go a long way too.
Also, Doc has been horrible this year. Easily one of his worst coaching performances to date.
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edited
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I'm tired of Boston's horrible play, and I'm tired of fans making excuses for the Celtics. In the aftermath of their latest debacle, I've seen a couple excuses in particular that just rub me the wrong way.
To wit:
I'm tired of people saying "the effort is there." This has been said after so many Celtic losses this season, but if a team with this much talent was really giving such great effort, they would've snapped out of their funk by now, just by sheer force of will.
I'm tired of people saying, "Ah, the shots just weren't falling tonight, doesn't happen often." I beg to differ. Happens a lot with this team. A lot. And it's bound to happen a lot when all you do is shoot jumpers. Jet's had three clunkers in the last two weeks. Bass can't hit water falling out of a boat. And KG doesn't take 22 shots on nights he is shooting well—heck, usually it's hard work just getting him to take his fair share of shots—so why is he taking 22 on a night he's stinking up the joint?
Yeah, it's a make-or-miss league ... which is a fancy way of saying "the team that scores the most points wins." Duh. If the jumpers aren't falling—as they often aren't with this team—they need to be willing to make in-game adjustments, attacking the basket more, cutting, running pick and ROLL (not pick and pop). The basketball IQ of this team—players AND coaches—is depressingly low right now.
One more game and we'll be a third of the way through the regular season (which is all we'll be playing, at this rate). This has got to change yesterday. Next game is Christmas Day, at Brooklyn; get ready for another dismal performance, thanks to the Nets' dominating size and Boston's inability to do ... well, anything. I hope Bradley provides a big spark, but even if he does, I don't think Boston can wait that long; Danny needs to make a trade or two, including at least one big one, for some legit size and interior D, and for some guys who aren't afraid to take it to the rack. All this passive outside shooting is nonsense.
What are you guys tired of? (And don't say "complaining" or "pessimistic fans"; you've got your "feel good" thread; this is a "not feeling good" thread.)
I always think it's cute when a thread is started telling people how they are allowed to respond.
This will be my only post in this thread as I don't want to break your rules.
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Rondo pushes the ball, moves the ball, we play well even when we are missing shots, like the 1st quarter.
Rondo walks the ball up the court, stands around dribbling the ball doing nothing running out the shot-clock, we suck... and we suck majorly when we're not hitting our shots. Like the 4th quarter... heck, just about every 4th quarter in his career.
Until Rondo stops ball-hogging (and yes, that's what he's doing even if he's not shooting it) and until he starts pushing the ball, playing with the speed he's capable of, then we're going to keep struggling. I've never seen a player with his speed, his talent play such a slow game. It's mind boggling. As I believe "Who" mentioned a few days ago, Rondo is the only elite PG who doesn't take advantage and dominate someone like Derek Fisher. I look at all the games, and say to myself "great, Rondo is going to go off against this PG, advantage Boston", and what I keep seeing is a very passive Rondo who can't dominate the players he's supposed to be dominating. He's our big advantage, game in and game out, but rarely delivers what we need him to. I really hate how he runs our team most of the time. I'm the first to admit he's having a good season, a very good one in fact, but he's not doing what we need to in order to win. He needs to step up and stop pointing fingers.
Yes, plenty of players are sucking, but our prosperity is not dependent on them.
So move the [dang] ball, drive to the basket, take the open layups, and stop walking the ball up the floor. I little more consistent defense would go a long way too.
Also, Doc has been horrible this year. Easily one of his worst coaching performances to date.
Agree with so much of this. Rondo is a major problem when he has the ball. He's a great passer, but he's an assist hog. He wants that stat more then anything. It's actually a big reason why Miami is so much better then us offensively. Everyone on Miami plays very unselfish basketball, we don't. We play the exact opposite. Most of our guys play hero ball and Rondo is at the front of that. The kid has to get the ball moving more. If that means he gets a hockey assist as opposed to a real assist, that's okay. It'll make us a better team. Also, agree that Doc has been bad. He's never made me thought of him as Phil Jackson etc, but his rotations still stink and his offenses are meh. Those are the same things he's had issues with since he got to Boston. Plays out of time outs are still great and his defenses are great, but I feel like he always gets exactly what his team is. Good coaches always get their team to over achieve a little bit, I don't think Doc does that.
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Rondo pushes the ball, moves the ball, we play well even when we are missing shots, like the 1st quarter.
Rondo walks the ball up the court, stands around dribbling the ball doing nothing running out the shot-clock, we suck... and we suck majorly when we're not hitting our shots. Like the 4th quarter... heck, just about every 4th quarter in his career.
Until Rondo stops ball-hogging (and yes, that's what he's doing even if he's not shooting it) and until he starts pushing the ball, playing with the speed he's capable of, then we're going to keep struggling. I've never seen a player with his speed, his talent play such a slow game. It's mind boggling. As I believe "Who" mentioned a few days ago, Rondo is the only elite PG who doesn't take advantage and dominate someone like Derek Fisher. I look at all the games, and say to myself "great, Rondo is going to go off against this PG, advantage Boston", and what I keep seeing is a very passive Rondo who can't dominate the players he's supposed to be dominating. He's our big advantage, game in and game out, but rarely delivers what we need him to. I really hate how he runs our team most of the time. I'm the first to admit he's having a good season, a very good one in fact, but he's not doing what we need to in order to win. He needs to step up and stop pointing fingers.
Yes, plenty of players are sucking, but our prosperity is not dependent on them.
So move the [dang] ball, drive to the basket, take the open layups, and stop walking the ball up the floor. I little more consistent defense would go a long way too.
Also, Doc has been horrible this year. Easily one of his worst coaching performances to date.
Agree with so much of this. Rondo is a major problem when he has the ball. He's a great passer, but he's an assist hog. He wants that stat more then anything. It's actually a big reason why Miami is so much better then us offensively. Everyone on Miami plays very unselfish basketball, we don't. We play the exact opposite. Most of our guys play hero ball and Rondo is at the front of that. The kid has to get the ball moving more. If that means he gets a hockey assist as opposed to a real assist, that's okay. It'll make us a better team. Also, agree that Doc has been bad. He's never made me thought of him as Phil Jackson etc, but his rotations still stink and his offenses are meh. Those are the same things he's had issues with since he got to Boston. Plays out of time outs are still great and his defenses are great, but I feel like he always gets exactly what his team is. Good coaches always get their team to over achieve a little bit, I don't think Doc does that.
yep. agreed. they move the ball very well. and chalmers is no star either. It is why i am now up for trading rondo along with anybody else other than PP and KG. we have two more years max anyways and we are blowing this whole thing up to kingdom come. give it one last shot.
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I'm tired of whiny posters who clearly have limited grasp of what this Celtics team is about. Red Sox season cant' start early enough, this usually picks them up. And Bruins, but I have no hope for the lockout ending soon.
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I'm tired of whiny posters who clearly have limited grasp of what this Celtics team is about. Red Sox season cant' start early enough, this usually picks them up. And Bruins, but I have no hope for the lockout ending soon.
and I am most certain plenty fans here are not red sox or bruins fans just because they are celtics fans for a plethora of reasons. just sayin'. :D
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I'm tired of whiny posters who clearly have limited grasp of what this Celtics team is about. Red Sox season cant' start early enough, this usually picks them up. And Bruins, but I have no hope for the lockout ending soon.
and I am most certain plenty fans here are not red sox or bruins fans just because they are celtics fans for a plethora of reasons. just sayin'. :D
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I'm not willing to call anyone out personally. I'm sure that many people here are Celtics fans, but I'm not sure they're basketball fans ("students of the game", so to say).
Kind of the way I'm with baseball and hockey, though I don't slug around Bruins/Sox blog to complain how Julien should be fired, and Seguin traded.
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I'm tired of whiny posters who clearly have limited grasp of what this Celtics team is about. Red Sox season cant' start early enough, this usually picks them up. And Bruins, but I have no hope for the lockout ending soon.
What does this actually mean, "what this celtics team is all about?" Aren't they about winning championships? And if so, this team certainly is not going to achieve that goal.
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I'm tired of Jeff Green Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.footing his way through his minutes. This guy has Mercedes talent and a Fiat motor.
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I am tired of
folks saying that season has just started so Doc needs more time.
folks that say not playing Darko was a god idea
Doc Rivers and his inability to coach this team up
Rondo giving up easy layups for assist seeking long range jumpers.
Celtics living off jump shots.
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"Ah, the shots just weren't falling tonight, doesn't happen often." I beg to differ. Happens a lot with this team.
We have pretty much the same FG% that we did last season (only a tiny difference better this season which means pretty much the same)... sure wish our shots would fall more often ::)
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I'm tired of whiny posters who clearly have limited grasp of what this Celtics team is about. Red Sox season cant' start early enough, this usually picks them up. And Bruins, but I have no hope for the lockout ending soon.
What does this actually mean, "what this celtics team is all about?" Aren't they about winning championships? And if so, this team certainly is not going to achieve that goal.
An initially three year project ended up after the fifth, and we don't have Ray Allen here anymore.
We aren't about winning a championship.
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Another thread complaining about the team. Smashing. ::)
Look, we all get it. This team isn't that good right now. I'm tired of losing, you're tired of losing, heck, everyone's tired of losing. There's no way we will get better without Avery's return and acquiring a talented big. Improved play from Terry, Green, Lee, and Bass (if they don't get traded) would be extra. As currently constructed, this team cannot win a title. It's that simple.
Other than that, I've actually enjoyed watching the team. KG and Pierce are still getting it done, Sully has been great, and I think Rondo's jump shot has really improved. Not that much else to be tired of about the C's.
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Sully and great for some reason are not in the same page of my book.
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Another thread complaining about the team. Smashing. ::)
Look, we all get it. This team isn't that good right now. I'm tired of losing, you're tired of losing, heck, everyone's tired of losing. There's no way we will get better without Avery's return and acquiring a talented big. Improved play from Terry, Green, Lee, and Bass (if they don't get traded) would be extra. As currently constructed, this team cannot win a title. It's that simple.
Other than that, I've actually enjoyed watching the team. KG and Pierce are still getting it done, Sully has been great, and I think Rondo's jump shot has really improved. Not that much else to be tired of about the C's.
I admire your optimism, but this is an honest question: You really have "enjoyed" watching this team play mostly horrendous defense and pretty much be unable to beat any team that has a pulse? If so, more power to you.
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I've actually enjoyed watching the team.
To me, this has been a very interesting season with a lot of compelling things to watch. It's a proud, aging core with a championship pedigree that's struggling to rebuild on the fly. There's an assumption that the talent is there - it's mostly the same team that made an ECF run - but it's not coming together except for during stretches. The younger players show flashes, and it can be tantalizing to think of the success they can have if they reach their potential at the same time. It also might all collapse into a puddle of mis-matched parts. I think this is a frustrating scenario, but it's also very exciting in its own way.
Many Celtics fans have become incredibly entitled. It's kind of ugly, but I personally think it's really too bad for them more than anything. This struggle to get there is a huge part of sports. If dynasties just showed up for fans the way cheerios show up for babies when they pound on their high chairs, then what would be the point of any of it?
I admire your optimism, but this is an honest question: You really have "enjoyed" watching this team play mostly horrendous defense and pretty much be unable to beat any team that has a pulse? If so, more power to you.
If you don't enjoy it, then why on earth do you watch it? Not only watch it, but come around here and post about it? The only guess I have is that you take satisfaction being miserable. If so, more power to you.
Tired of it? Refresh yourself. Go watch a movie.
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Last year we went with what we had and gutted it out. Credit to the heart of the players. That was all them. Now we have I think too many players and the same coach that has no idea how to uses them. We need to trim the fat or play team A on the floor and team B on the floor
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I've actually enjoyed watching the team.
To me, this has been a very interesting season with a lot of compelling things to watch. It's a proud, aging core with a championship pedigree that's struggling to rebuild on the fly. There's an assumption that the talent is there - it's mostly the same team that made an ECF run - but it's not coming together except for during stretches. The younger players show flashes, and it can be tantalizing to think of the success they can have if they reach their potential at the same time. It also might all collapse into a puddle of mis-matched parts. I think this is a frustrating scenario, but it's also very exciting in its own way.
Many Celtics fans have become incredibly entitled. It's kind of ugly, but I personally think it's really too bad for them more than anything. This struggle to get there is a huge part of sports. If dynasties just showed up for fans the way cheerios show up for babies when they pound on their high chairs, then what would be the point of any of it?
I admire your optimism, but this is an honest question: You really have "enjoyed" watching this team play mostly horrendous defense and pretty much be unable to beat any team that has a pulse? If so, more power to you.
If you don't enjoy it, then why on earth do you watch it? Not only watch it, but come around here and post about it? The only guess I have is that you take satisfaction being miserable. If so, more power to you.
Tired of it? Refresh yourself. Go watch a movie.
Its called being a fan dude and venting on a forum. Get a clue and get down from your high horse ::)
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I've actually enjoyed watching the team.
To me, this has been a very interesting season with a lot of compelling things to watch. It's a proud, aging core with a championship pedigree that's struggling to rebuild on the fly. There's an assumption that the talent is there - it's mostly the same team that made an ECF run - but it's not coming together except for during stretches. The younger players show flashes, and it can be tantalizing to think of the success they can have if they reach their potential at the same time. It also might all collapse into a puddle of mis-matched parts. I think this is a frustrating scenario, but it's also very exciting in its own way.
Many Celtics fans have become incredibly entitled. It's kind of ugly, but I personally think it's really too bad for them more than anything. This struggle to get there is a huge part of sports. If dynasties just showed up for fans the way cheerios show up for babies when they pound on their high chairs, then what would be the point of any of it?
I admire your optimism, but this is an honest question: You really have "enjoyed" watching this team play mostly horrendous defense and pretty much be unable to beat any team that has a pulse? If so, more power to you.
If you don't enjoy it, then why on earth do you watch it? Not only watch it, but come around here and post about it? The only guess I have is that you take satisfaction being miserable. If so, more power to you.
Tired of it? Refresh yourself. Go watch a movie.
Please keep it civil / No personal attacks
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Another thread complaining about the team. Smashing. ::)
Look, we all get it. This team isn't that good right now. I'm tired of losing, you're tired of losing, heck, everyone's tired of losing. There's no way we will get better without Avery's return and acquiring a talented big. Improved play from Terry, Green, Lee, and Bass (if they don't get traded) would be extra. As currently constructed, this team cannot win a title. It's that simple.
Other than that, I've actually enjoyed watching the team. KG and Pierce are still getting it done, Sully has been great, and I think Rondo's jump shot has really improved. Not that much else to be tired of about the C's.
I admire your optimism, but this is an honest question: You really have "enjoyed" watching this team play mostly horrendous defense and pretty much be unable to beat any team that has a pulse? If so, more power to you.
It's certainly frustrating watching this team struggle defensively, but I expect it to improve at least a little once Bradley returns, so I can live with it for now.
As for our inability to beat teams "with a pulse," I am disappointed, but I think we should be able to put up more of a fight if Danny can acquire a nice big man.
So, despite our struggles, I have been able to enjoy watching the team.
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I'm tired of celtics fans complaining, whining and jumping the gun to bash this team. I will be even more tired of the bandwagon jumpers at the end of the season when we are fighting for home court advantage.
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Some of you mentioned Doc's comments about "shots not falling", or "its a make or miss league". He's right. Its not an excuse. We are what we are. A jump shooting team. Have been since 08. We don't have guys that can create their own shot. Peirce is the only guy who really can, but he has lost a step.KG is a jump shooter. Our whole team is that.
Until we get guys who can create on their own, our identity will be a jump shooting team.
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I'm tired of celtics fans complaining, whining and jumping the gun to bash this team. I will be even more tired of the bandwagon jumpers at the end of the season when we are fighting for home court advantage.
same here
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For those bothered by this thread, I didn't intend to ruffle any feathers. Just wanted to vent some frustration.
I was a regular complainer last season, so before this season started, I decided I was going to make a concerted effort to be patient as long as I could. I barely batted a lash at their problems through the first dozen games.
Then I attended my first Celtics game, Nov. 28 against the visiting Nets, and was treated to "the brawl" and some of the worst Celtics basketball of the New Big Three era. Still I remained patient, and largely silent.
After the Milwaukee game, though, Boston is within one game of being a third of the way through its season and there are few signs of progress. I'm no bandwagon fan; I've continued to cheer on the Cs through all their crappy play this season. Do I feel entitled? Well, I'll admit to being spoiled by all their success of the last 5 seasons. I also, however, know the level of talent on this year's team, and that they're underperforming by a country mile. I don't expect anyone to hand the Celtics (and their fans) the title, but I do expect these guys to show signs of significant progress at this point in the season. I've been trying really hard to enjoy this season—I do want to enjoy it, after all; I'm not hoping for things to complain about—but it's hard to enjoy the product they've been putting out on the floor. Yeah, there have been good (even great) individual performances, and I'm excited to see the development of young guys such as Sully, but this isn't supposed to be a "development" year, it's supposed to be a title-chasing year.
I realize that the year isn't over, and that we have a lot of new players still finding their way. Two thirds of the regular season remain, and these guys could still get their act together, or Danny could make a great trade that addresses the team's biggest needs while eliminating some of the redundancy on the roster (all those 2s, for example). I don't know, however, that we can count on a repeat of last season, when everyone suddenly got their act together post-All-Star break and, despite numerous injuries, performed like a powerhouse. We certainly shouldn't depend on that happening, and neither should the players.
So that's all this thread was about: venting frustrating and hoping for positive change to happen soon. Some of you don't like that, but just keep in mind that some others of us don't like the continued "covering" for this team's shortcomings (real or perceived), and we're weary of hearing the same things over and over: "our legs were tired tonight," "it's a make/miss league," etc. Especially given the timing of some of these reasons: How can you come out flat after three days of rest? How can so many guys have shooting slumps at the same time (Bass, Terry, Lee)? These are legitimate questions that cross our minds, and there's nothing wrong with questioning where the players' heads are, and asking why we're not seeing much progress.
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Some of you mentioned Doc's comments about "shots not falling", or "its a make or miss league". He's right. Its not an excuse. We are what we are. A jump shooting team. Have been since 08. We don't have guys that can create their own shot. Peirce is the only guy who really can, but he has lost a step.KG is a jump shooter. Our whole team is that.
Until we get guys who can create on their own, our identity will be a jump shooting team.
Jason Terry, and to a lesser degree Courtney Lee, were supposed to be capable of doing quite a bit of creating. We were told particularly that Jet is great in the pick and roll. For whatever reason, though, we haven't seen much creating from either of these guys. Leandro Barbosa is also capable of creating.
I would also argue that Rajon Rondo, with his speed, should be able to create dribble-drive opportunities for himself, and also to use that skill to draw defenders and thus open up teammates.
Why aren't these things happening?
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I'm a fan of basketball in general not just a fan of the celtics. I normally don't watch the games live on tv. because there's always plenty of games on or even a good flick. I watch this team play 1 of their games sometimes after a week later. I'm very critical of the C's & like to focus totally whenever I do watch. With all of this said...
I'm frustrated with what's been frustrating for the past few yrs. Nothing has changed :-\
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Some of you mentioned Doc's comments about "shots not falling", or "its a make or miss league". He's right. Its not an excuse. We are what we are. A jump shooting team. Have been since 08. We don't have guys that can create their own shot. Peirce is the only guy who really can, but he has lost a step.KG is a jump shooter. Our whole team is that.
Until we get guys who can create on their own, our identity will be a jump shooting team.
Jason Terry, and to a lesser degree Courtney Lee, were supposed to be capable of doing quite a bit of creating. We were told particularly that Jet is great in the pick and roll. For whatever reason, though, we haven't seen much creating from either of these guys. Leandro Barbosa is also capable of creating.
I would also argue that Rajon Rondo, with his speed, should be able to create dribble-drive opportunities for himself, and also to use that skill to draw defenders and thus open up teammates.
Why aren't these things happening?
I beg to differ. Those guys you mentioned can drive to the lane. Driving to the lane and creating your own shot is different. Anybody can drive to the lane. Which Jet, Lee, Barbosa and Rondo can do. Creating your own shot takes a superior offensive skill set. Players who can are special,(Durant, Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo and Pierce)
Other than Pierce, nobody has the perimeter game to do such and he is 35. We need another guy who can.
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For those bothered by this thread, I didn't intend to ruffle any feathers. Just wanted to vent some frustration.
I was a regular complainer last season, so before this season started, I decided I was going to make a concerted effort to be patient as long as I could. I barely batted a lash at their problems through the first dozen games.
Then I attended my first Celtics game, Nov. 28 against the visiting Nets, and was treated to "the brawl" and some of the worst Celtics basketball of the New Big Three era. Still I remained patient, and largely silent.
After the Milwaukee game, though, Boston is within one game of being a third of the way through its season and there are few signs of progress. I'm no bandwagon fan; I've continued to cheer on the Cs through all their crappy play this season. Do I feel entitled? Well, I'll admit to being spoiled by all their success of the last 5 seasons. I also, however, know the level of talent on this year's team, and that they're underperforming by a country mile. I don't expect anyone to hand the Celtics (and their fans) the title, but I do expect these guys to show signs of significant progress at this point in the season. I've been trying really hard to enjoy this season—I do want to enjoy it, after all; I'm not hoping for things to complain about—but it's hard to enjoy the product they've been putting out on the floor. Yeah, there have been good (even great) individual performances, and I'm excited to see the development of young guys such as Sully, but this isn't supposed to be a "development" year, it's supposed to be a title-chasing year.
I realize that the year isn't over, and that we have a lot of new players still finding their way. Two thirds of the regular season remain, and these guys could still get their act together, or Danny could make a great trade that addresses the team's biggest needs while eliminating some of the redundancy on the roster (all those 2s, for example). I don't know, however, that we can count on a repeat of last season, when everyone suddenly got their act together post-All-Star break and, despite numerous injuries, performed like a powerhouse. We certainly shouldn't depend on that happening, and neither should the players.
So that's all this thread was about: venting frustrating and hoping for positive change to happen soon. Some of you don't like that, but just keep in mind that some others of us don't like the continued "covering" for this team's shortcomings (real or perceived), and we're weary of hearing the same things over and over: "our legs were tired tonight," "it's a make/miss league," etc. Especially given the timing of some of these reasons: How can you come out flat after three days of rest? How can so many guys have shooting slumps at the same time (Bass, Terry, Lee)? These are legitimate questions that cross our minds, and there's nothing wrong with questioning where the players' heads are, and asking why we're not seeing much progress.
Fwiw, that's all very fair and reasonable. I'm 1/4 step behind you.
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Some of you mentioned Doc's comments about "shots not falling", or "its a make or miss league". He's right. Its not an excuse. We are what we are. A jump shooting team. Have been since 08. We don't have guys that can create their own shot. Peirce is the only guy who really can, but he has lost a step.KG is a jump shooter. Our whole team is that.
Until we get guys who can create on their own, our identity will be a jump shooting team.
Jason Terry, and to a lesser degree Courtney Lee, were supposed to be capable of doing quite a bit of creating. We were told particularly that Jet is great in the pick and roll. For whatever reason, though, we haven't seen much creating from either of these guys. Leandro Barbosa is also capable of creating.
I would also argue that Rajon Rondo, with his speed, should be able to create dribble-drive opportunities for himself, and also to use that skill to draw defenders and thus open up teammates.
Why aren't these things happening?
I beg to differ. Those guys you mentioned can drive to the lane. Driving to the lane and creating your own shot is different. Anybody can drive to the lane. Which Jet, Lee, Barbosa and Rondo can do. Creating your own shot takes a superior offensive skill set. Players who can are special,(Durant, Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo and Pierce)
Other than Pierce, nobody has the perimeter game to do such and he is 35. We need another guy who can.
They all can, to lesser degrees of effectiveness, but they all can and be quite successful at it, so is Jeff Green. When the ball is moving, all this things happen. When Rondo and Pierce are the sole players who control the ball, then we're not going to see it because well, they aren't given the opportunity to do so.
KG and Sulliger can also work on the low post, and they're good passers from there.
So we have plenty of options... most of them completely underutilized at the moment, or flat-out misused.