CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: PhoSita on December 21, 2012, 10:16:11 PM
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I'm really just at a loss right now.
The Celtics played small in the second half of last season and won the vast majority of their games.
Sure, they miss Avery Bradley. But Courtney Lee and Jason Terry should have been able to fill in more than adequately.
So why isn't it working this year? Like, at all?
The Celtics are bad at a lot of things that a good basketball team needs to be able to do:
- Rebounding
- Preventing dribble penetration
- Protecting the rim
- Hitting high value shots (threes and looks in the paint) at a high rate
- Getting consistent production from the bench
I look at a team like the Atlanta Hawks, and they are far less talented overall than the Celtics. But they have been much more successful. They rebound, they get looks inside, they have a lot of good outside shooters, and they defend the perimeter and the paint effectively. They're a better team even though they lack a star on the same level as Rondo, Pierce, or Garnett. In short, the Hawks are just built in a much more traditional way than the Celtics, and it works. What the Celtics have right now isn't working.
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tonight was garbage coaching and then we were just snakebit.
why does doc let them take jumpers when we could not throw the ball in the ocean?
why do we not dribble drive and/or dish or post up KG when it matters?
pure luck got us to OT. then when we get to OT KG misses two baby shots from 3 feet out. unbelievable. should have never gotten to that situation.
we need a big guy now to post up and be the go to guy when we suck at jumpers. nah nevermind doc would not allow it. *banging head against wall*
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
This doesn't really answer the question of my post.
Why have the Celtics struggled so much this year when they were so good with essentially the same core lineup (Rondo - SG - Pierce - Bass - Garnett) in the second half of last season?
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
This doesn't really answer the question of my post.
Why have the Celtics struggled so much this year when they were so good with essentially the same core lineup (Rondo - SG - Pierce - Bass - Garnett) in the second half of last season?
I don't have a full answer, but missing a ton of makeable shots was the main reason tonight. That, and Larry Sanders and Monta Ellis.
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(http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/1031/dm_121031_nba_garnett_snubs_ray_allen/dm_121031_nba_garnett_snubs_ray_allen.jpg)
Doc is still running the same plays except for Lee and Terry and it's not really working that well. It's just not their games. We need better defense and some more consistent scoring from secondary players.
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yea there is NO freakin way we can win when KG and Jet shot like 5 for 45 or something... a blind man can hit as many..with luck alone....
(http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af13/74Z28PILOT/turrible.gif)
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
This doesn't really answer the question of my post.
Why have the Celtics struggled so much this year when they were so good with essentially the same core lineup (Rondo - SG - Pierce - Bass - Garnett) in the second half of last season?
I don't have a full answer, but missing shots was the main reason tonight. That, and Larry Sanders and Monta Ellis.
right, shots they had no business taking. Tommy is going to die of a stroke before it is over screaming for us to attack inside. i'll bet he does not think too fondly of doc outside the booth.
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A few reasons.
Among them being that a lot of teams got better while we stayed the same (or got worse by some accounts.) That makes a difference. Especially when two of those teams who have gotten better are in our division SMH.
Doc. His bad coaching is getting exposed with each passing game.
2 of our most important players are getting older.
We have no size.
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A few reasons.
Among them being that a lot of teams got better while we stayed the same (or got worse by some accounts.) That makes a difference. Especially when two of those teams who have gotten better are in our division SMH.
Doc. His bad coaching is getting exposed with each passing game.
2 of our most important players are getting older.
We have no size.
yep. a blind monkey could see it now. doc has been exposed. insanity=doing the same thing over and over=shooting bricks instead of attacking. unreal.
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I'm really just at a loss right now.
The Celtics played small in the second half of last season and won the vast majority of their games.
Sure, they miss Avery Bradley. But Courtney Lee and Jason Terry should have been able to fill in more than adequately.
So why isn't it working this year? Like, at all?
The Celtics are bad at a lot of things that a good basketball team needs to be able to do:
- Rebounding
- Preventing dribble penetration
- Protecting the rim
- Hitting high value shots (threes and looks in the paint) at a high rate
- Getting consistent production from the bench
I look at a team like the Atlanta Hawks, and they are far less talented overall than the Celtics. But they have been much more successful. They rebound, they get looks inside, they have a lot of good outside shooters, and they defend the perimeter and the paint effectively. They're a better team even though they lack a star on the same level as Rondo, Pierce, or Garnett. In short, the Hawks are just built in a much more traditional way than the Celtics, and it works. What the Celtics have right now isn't working.
because Doc is trying to stick his antiquated system into a lineup that doesnt fit that way.
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Age
New parts
KG is that much of a post guy anymore (Due to age)
Bass lost his jumper, Lee did too
Green and Pietrus are totally different, So are Jet and Ray
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
This doesn't really answer the question of my post.
Why have the Celtics struggled so much this year when they were so good with essentially the same core lineup (Rondo - SG - Pierce - Bass - Garnett) in the second half of last season?
I don't have a full answer, but missing shots was the main reason tonight. That, and Larry Sanders and Monta Ellis.
right, shots they had no business taking. Tommy is going to die of a stroke before it is over screaming for us to attack inside. i'll bet he does not think too fondly of doc outside the booth.
Jet, KG, and Brandon Bass missed a heck of a lot of shots that I like them taking. I love taking it to the basket, but sometimes you've got to hit some jump shots.
I mean, shoot, a lot of KG's misses were inside. Larry Sanders really bothered him tonight.
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Age
New parts
KG is that much of a post guy anymore (Due to age)
Bass lost his jumper, Lee did too
Green and Pietrus are totally different, So are Jet and Ray
well then we had best make a trade for a big who can score down low also then. or we are history.
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
The Bucks are 3-1 against the Celtics for the season. Just saying. Right now they are better than the Celtics.
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this year is different bc it is a different team
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tonight KG and Jet - 7of37 from the field. 20% isn't going to get it done, against anyone.
plenty of blame to go around, coach should play someone else if they are that cold, players should know if they are 1 for 12 that maybe I should at least take it to the rim instead of launching another bad jumpshot. at least if you are aggressive and take it to the hole you have a chance to pick up a foul.
for the whole season- 1) too much dribble penetration by the opposing teams is killing our interior defense. 2) the new players who weren't here last year still trying to find their roles jet, jg, C Lee...
3) KG and PP are just a year older and have lost a bit of a step. still great players, but when on a normal night you can only get 28 min out of kg, it leaves too many minutes as a free for all on D.
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I thought the Celtics looked pretty good tonight. When Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry shoot like that, it's going to be tough to win.
I like that Bucks teams. They'll be a fun eighth seed.
The Bucks are 3-1 against the Celtics for the season. Just saying. Right now they are better than the Celtics.
we are terrible right now. I am truly disgusted and fed up with docs dumb coaching. keep smashing that square peg into a round hole doc. keep shooting those jumpers when your boys cannot throw it in the ocean. SMH
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I am truly disgusted and fed up with docs dumb coaching. keep smashing that square peg into a round hole doc. keep shooting those jumpers when your boys cannot throw it in the ocean.
I dont know if its dumb or careless
but its bad
AS much to blame on Veterans nodelivering and poor kids lost because theyre not ready
This team have the personal we have seen that with 4 or 5 playing well this team will win, today only PP show
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Age
New parts
KG is that much of a post guy anymore (Due to age)
Bass lost his jumper, Lee did too
Green and Pietrus are totally different, So are Jet and Ray
well then we had best make a trade for a big who can score down low also then. or we are history.
That pretty much sums it up folks .
I imagine tonight was the last straw .
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this year is different bc it is a different team
deep.
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this year is different bc it is a different team
deep.
;D
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Sure, they miss Avery Bradley. But Courtney Lee and Jason Terry should have been able to fill in more than adequately.
Neither player can replace what Bradley did for the team last year.
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KG is the only legit big man.
Pierce is really showing his age. On defense particularly.
Most of the roster turned over.
Terry and Lee have been way below their normal level of play.
Green has been mediocre to awful.
Need more reasons?
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Yeah we expected more for guys like Bass Green Lee and JET. If we could get 75% of what we thought of these guys we would be singing a much different tune. But thats not the case. I think we need to move Bass in paticular. We need to get a legit Center back next to KG. If we had a Gortat or Varajeo we would be very good. I am not worried to much about Jet or Jeff to be honest. Jeff is coming off being out for a year and is still getting into the thick of things. I will say if something doesn't change from him though by game 40 or so then i will get worried.
Jet his shooting will come around. I think he is getting used to running of screens and what not which I don't think is best for him but eventually they will start falling. But the C's need to get a legit Center in there.
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Sure, they miss Avery Bradley. But Courtney Lee and Jason Terry should have been able to fill in more than adequately.
Neither player can replace what Bradley did for the team last year.
Replace? Absolutely not. But adequately approximate the role and production that Bradley gave them? I don't think that's asking too much.
I didn't necessarily expect this team to play .700 ball to start the season like they did at the end of last season. But barely staying afloat above .500? I'm completely at a loss.
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tonight was garbage coaching and then we were just snakebit.
why does doc let them take jumpers when we could not throw the ball in the ocean?
why do we not dribble drive and/or dish or post up KG when it matters?
pure luck got us to OT. then when we get to OT KG misses two baby shots from 3 feet out. unbelievable. should have never gotten to that situation.
we need a big guy now to post up and be the go to guy when we suck at jumpers. nah nevermind doc would not allow it. *banging head against wall*
I wonder, do you realize that it is the players themselves that are deciding to take the shots that you are complaining about. KG and Jet had a LOT of good looks tonight. They were just off with the shooting. KG had a number of shots inside. These are shots Doc probably wants them to take. I mean, what do you expect Doc to do? KG is our best player. Are you going to sit KG and watch our D fall apart at the seams?
This blaming everything on Doc has gotten way out of hand. The players are the ones that make the plays on the court, be it good or bad. If Doc had more options with his lineup maybe he would sit KG / Jet more who knows. Doc has taken responsibility for the team, again and again after bad losses. But it is the players who ultimately have to step up.
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I'm really just at a loss right now.
They were 23-21 after 44 games last year.
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I'm really just at a loss right now.
They were 23-21 after 44 games last year.
i doubt that is his point. he is looking at performance and coaching.our coach is slamming a square peg into a round hole. it is suicide. it is masochism at its finest. Tommy Heinsohn is screaming it from the rooftops every game. We have 3( 4 if you count barbosa) dribble drivers and a couple guys who can post up(KG and Green)....yet we settle for brick after brick after brick. SMH.
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Why do we look different at the start of this year compared to the end of last year?
1. Interior defense - Last year KG went on overdrive after the all-star break. He played well for long stretches of games and covered up for Bass. Steamer and Hollins were much better defensive options off the bench than anyone we have right now and could spell KG or handle some of the load.
2. Exterior defense - Bradley was a pest. He would force teams into turnovers, and allow Rondo to roam and conserve energy. His presence probably also helped our bigs because our opponents felt more pressure. Even Ray was a much better option on D than Terry.
3. Confidence - Teams that are playing well find ways to win games. Shots go in, guys hustle a little bit more, there's better communication, etc.
4. Continuity - Our talent level looks better on paper this year, but guys knew the system last year. Everyone had a role (except Ray who lost his and struggled to adapt). Things haven't clicked yet. I think this is part of why Bass has played so poorly (he's looking over his shoulder more) and guys like Green and Lee haven't settled down (they don't know how they are supposed to play).
5. Production - A lot of guys haven't played up to the level expected of them. Jet, Green, Bass, and Lee have all been worse than expected. KG is being rested. Pierce isn't bringing it every night. Rondo has never brought it every night. Sully is a rookie who is hit or miss whenever he's in.
We're a jump shooting team that isn't hitting jump shots.
6. Attacking the basket - We didn't do this a ton last year, but before he got hurt Bradley would cut to the rim without the ball. When he got hurt it was already the playoffs and Rondo generally steps up his game. Pierce was also in good form towards the end of last year. And as much as people hated on Hollins, he was really active.
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tonight was garbage coaching and then we were just snakebit.
why does doc let them take jumpers when we could not throw the ball in the ocean?
why do we not dribble drive and/or dish or post up KG when it matters?
pure luck got us to OT. then when we get to OT KG misses two baby shots from 3 feet out. unbelievable. should have never gotten to that situation.
we need a big guy now to post up and be the go to guy when we suck at jumpers. nah nevermind doc would not allow it. *banging head against wall*
I wonder, do you realize that it is the players themselves that are deciding to take the shots that you are complaining about. KG and Jet had a LOT of good looks tonight. They were just off with the shooting. KG had a number of shots inside. These are shots Doc probably wants them to take. I mean, what do you expect Doc to do? KG is our best player. Are you going to sit KG and watch our D fall apart at the seams?
This blaming everything on Doc has gotten way out of hand. The players are the ones that make the plays on the court, be it good or bad. If Doc had more options with his lineup maybe he would sit KG / Jet more who knows. Doc has taken responsibility for the team, again and again after bad losses. But it is the players who ultimately have to step up.
we have no inside game. the vast majority of our shots are lower percentage jumpers. not high % like tommy screams his head off about when you attack the basket and get in the paint also.
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Sure, they miss Avery Bradley. But Courtney Lee and Jason Terry should have been able to fill in more than adequately.
Neither player can replace what Bradley did for the team last year.
Replace? Absolutely not. But adequately approximate the role and production that Bradley gave them? I don't think that's asking too much.
I didn't necessarily expect this team to play .700 ball to start the season like they did at the end of last season. But barely staying afloat above .500? I'm completely at a loss.
offensively, maybe. But defensively neither Lee or Terry are on Bradleys level of impacting a game.
BUT
Bradley is an ELITE defensive player...like KG, he helps cover up for alot of other guys deficiencies..
I dont know why people are so hesitant to give him credit for helping to turn our season/defense around last year.
think about it, KG was calling bradley our "defensive leader"