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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Texstyles on December 20, 2012, 02:39:40 AM

Title: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Texstyles on December 20, 2012, 02:39:40 AM
Look guys I know it was only Clev. but the starting lineup looked much better tonight.  It was nice seeing KG at PF and floating around everywhere on D.  Now lets just get a real Center and we are all set.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: kozlodoev on December 20, 2012, 03:21:35 AM
Look guys I know it was only Clev. but the starting lineup looked much better tonight.  It was nice seeing KG at PF and floating around everywhere on D.  Now lets just get a real Center and we are all set.
What exactly was nice about it? He played great at C. He played great at PF.

The Celtics problem is not Garnett. It's everyone else, pretty much.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Kiorrik on December 20, 2012, 06:08:13 AM
Look guys I know it was only Clev. but the starting lineup looked much better tonight.  It was nice seeing KG at PF and floating around everywhere on D.  Now lets just get a real Center and we are all set.
What exactly was nice about it? He played great at C. He played great at PF.

The Celtics problem is not Garnett. It's everyone else, pretty much.
Perhaps his great play coincided with him getting his legs (knees) back? I dunno, just reaching here.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 20, 2012, 06:58:44 AM
I think KG was good at C too.  He was not the problem I am with Koz, on this one.   It was the other guys...
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 20, 2012, 08:01:51 AM
Look guys I know it was only Clev. but the starting lineup looked much better tonight.  It was nice seeing KG at PF and floating around everywhere on D.  Now lets just get a real Center and we are all set.
What exactly was nice about it? He played great at C. He played great at PF.

The Celtics problem is not Garnett. It's everyone else, pretty much.
Perhaps his great play coincided with him getting his legs (knees) back? I dunno, just reaching here.

What great play?  Didn't he produce about 15 points and 7 rebounds?  He's been averaging that all season long...
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 20, 2012, 08:04:52 AM
KG plays great at either position. Team has more potential with KG at the 4 and a legit center in the starting line up.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 09:02:24 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: wdleehi on December 20, 2012, 09:12:12 AM
What is great about it is it gives the Celtics the flexibility to trade for the best big man available and not worry if he is a C or PF. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 09:21:47 AM
What is great about it is it gives the Celtics the flexibility to trade for the best big man available and not worry if he is a C or PF.

Exactly.  The C's need talent, not position.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Snakehead on December 20, 2012, 09:25:27 AM
Look guys I know it was only Clev. but the starting lineup looked much better tonight.  It was nice seeing KG at PF and floating around everywhere on D.  Now lets just get a real Center and we are all set.
What exactly was nice about it? He played great at C. He played great at PF.

The Celtics problem is not Garnett. It's everyone else, pretty much.

Exactly right.

One of the best players in the league at either position.  And he can exploit C mismatches quite well.  I like him a lot there.

The man is 7' tall.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Who on December 20, 2012, 09:37:09 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.

Kenyon Martin!
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 09:39:47 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.

Kenyon Martin!

From 2002!

Seriously, I think Martin would be great if he could still play, I am just not so convinced he still can play.  We already have one washed up defensive specialist.  I am not sure the solution is another one. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: mgent on December 20, 2012, 09:43:15 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.
True that.  KG is a constant, not the variable.  C, PF, who cares?  We're talking about a guy that played point forward throughout his career.  He can adjust.

Bass is a decent man to man defender and a bad help defender.
Wilcox is an average man to man defender and a bad help defender.
Sullinger is an average (barely) man to man defender and one of the worst help defenders in the league.

And none of them can protect the rim at 6'8" or block a shot, which is coincidentally the only part of defense that KG doesn't do.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Snakehead on December 20, 2012, 09:48:20 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.

Kenyon Martin!

From 2002!

Seriously, I think Martin would be great if he could still play, I am just not so convinced he still can play.  We already have one washed up defensive specialist.  I am not sure the solution is another one.

I'm not sure if anyone who suggests K Mart saw him play last year.

Awful.




And none of them can protect the rim at 6'8" or block a shot, which is coincidentally the only part of defense that KG doesn't do.

KG doesn't block a lot of shots anymore but he sure as hell protects the rim.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Who on December 20, 2012, 09:50:02 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.

Kenyon Martin!

From 2002!

Seriously, I think Martin would be great if he could still play, I am just not so convinced he still can play.  We already have one washed up defensive specialist.  I am not sure the solution is another one.

I'm not sure if anyone who suggests K Mart saw him play last year.

Awful.




And none of them can protect the rim at 6'8" or block a shot, which is coincidentally the only part of defense that KG doesn't do.

KG doesn't block a lot of shots anymore but he sure as hell protects the rim.

Clippers don't win a playoff series last year without Kenyon Martin.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Kane3387 on December 20, 2012, 09:51:27 AM
Martin was garbage for the Clippers last year. Be patient and see who else becomes available. I remember a few years ago we jumped the gun and signed Mikki Moore. A few days later Drew Gooden was bought out and played with the Spurs.

Gooden is no Karl Malone but he was far superior to Mikki Moore.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Snakehead on December 20, 2012, 09:51:53 AM
I think this has less to do with moving KG to PF as it does with having someone else who actually plays defense on the court.  If they had a defensive oriented PF, they would have gladly kept KG at center, but clearly Doc was fed up with the softness of the other big men defensively.

Kenyon Martin!

From 2002!

Seriously, I think Martin would be great if he could still play, I am just not so convinced he still can play.  We already have one washed up defensive specialist.  I am not sure the solution is another one.

I'm not sure if anyone who suggests K Mart saw him play last year.

Awful.




And none of them can protect the rim at 6'8" or block a shot, which is coincidentally the only part of defense that KG doesn't do.

KG doesn't block a lot of shots anymore but he sure as hell protects the rim.

Clippers don't win a playoff series last year without Kenyon Martin.

Maybe.  Doesn't mean he was good either.  He wasn't.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Who on December 20, 2012, 09:55:33 AM
I don't understand how so many people rate Kenyon Martin so poorly.

The man is clearly still in really good physical shape. He has good quickness and mobility. He still has explosive leaping ability. He has physical and mental toughness. He has defensive smarts. He is still one of the better defensive players in the league at the PF position. This is a guy who can help a team.

We have no big man outside of KG that comes close to Kenyon's defensive ability.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Snakehead on December 20, 2012, 09:59:39 AM
I don't understand how so many people rate Kenyon Martin so poorly.

The man is clearly still in really good physical shape. He has good quickness and mobility.

He is still one of the better defensive players in the league at the PF position.

I really don't know if we watched the same player.


I've repeated myself a lot here, but Chris Andersen is the best big man option out there in the open.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: wdleehi on December 20, 2012, 10:01:48 AM
I don't understand how so many people rate Kenyon Martin so poorly.

The man is clearly still in really good physical shape. He has good quickness and mobility. He still has explosive leaping ability. He has physical and mental toughness. He has defensive smarts. He is still one of the better defensive players in the league at the PF position. This is a guy who can help a team.

We have no big man outside of KG that comes close to Kenyon's defensive ability.


His offense is gone.


He is an average rebounder.



There is a reason he is still on the street while a guy out of the league is now playing. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: celticslove on December 20, 2012, 10:04:53 AM
another reason that kenyon martin is washed out... the clippers signed ryan hollins over him.lol
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Who on December 20, 2012, 10:07:32 AM
I don't understand how so many people rate Kenyon Martin so poorly.

The man is clearly still in really good physical shape. He has good quickness and mobility. He still has explosive leaping ability. He has physical and mental toughness. He has defensive smarts. He is still one of the better defensive players in the league at the PF position. This is a guy who can help a team.

We have no big man outside of KG that comes close to Kenyon's defensive ability.


His offense is gone.


He is an average rebounder.



There is a reason he is still on the street while a guy out of the league is now playing.

There are bad reasons. Not good reasons. Why Kenyon isn't on a team.

He could help someone.

His offense is the exact same it's been for several years now. Dodgy scoring, limited jumper, good passing. Kenyon's rebounding was bad last year but it's been bad before and he has bounced back. It is way too early to write him off because of that. Especially with him playing only half a season after spending time in China.

I would be worried if the physical talent wasn't there but it clearly still is. This isn't a guy who should be written off. It is premature.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 10:22:50 AM
The other concern I have with Martin is that there were reported concerns about his personality.  Now, without knowing the details, its hard to know how much stock to put into it, but I would be concerned, if the vets (KG and Pierce) are not all for bringing in Martin.  This team has been really struggling to find chemistry, and I wouldn't mess with that for a guy with very questionable abilities at this point in his career.

If the players want him, then I think its worth the risk.  But I am not sure if thats the case. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: BballTim on December 20, 2012, 10:29:36 AM
I don't understand how so many people rate Kenyon Martin so poorly.

The man is clearly still in really good physical shape. He has good quickness and mobility. He still has explosive leaping ability. He has physical and mental toughness. He has defensive smarts. He is still one of the better defensive players in the league at the PF position. This is a guy who can help a team.

We have no big man outside of KG that comes close to Kenyon's defensive ability.


His offense is gone.


He is an average rebounder.



There is a reason he is still on the street while a guy out of the league is now playing.

There are bad reasons. Not good reasons. Why Kenyon isn't on a team.

He could help someone.

His offense is the exact same it's been for several years now. Dodgy scoring, limited jumper, good passing. Kenyon's rebounding was bad last year but it's been bad before and he has bounced back. It is way too early to write him off because of that. Especially with him playing only half a season after spending time in China.

I would be worried if the physical talent wasn't there but it clearly still is. This isn't a guy who should be written off. It is premature.

  His rebounding's fluctuated over his career but a lot of that's been due to knee issues. It's less likely his rebounding will bounce back when he's 35, and the drop in rebounding as well as the drop in scoring, career low fg% and hitting 37% of his free throws doesn't paint much of an overall picture. Again, I didn't see him play much last year (or notice his play much when I was watching the Clips) but the numbers don't look all that good.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: CelticG1 on December 20, 2012, 10:31:15 AM
What the hell does chris Wilcox do better than Martin?

Wilcox is a great dunker within 2 feet of the rim. Might as well have Hollins(except Hollins was better defensively and a better agitator)

"There's a reason why he's still out there' yeah a stupid reason. There's a reason why Stiemsma was a bench player for Wisconsin and a perrenial D league player as well right?

Maybe Danny doesn't want him for some reason but its not for something stupidly vague like "no one else is interested"
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: action781 on December 20, 2012, 10:45:57 AM
I don't see what holds up a Jeff Green for Okafor swap once the trade restriction expires.  It makes no sense to me for Washington to want him. 

C. Lee + J. Green + Sullinger for M. Webster + Okafor

Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Webster
KG/Bass/Wilcox
Okafor/KG/Wilcox

I love that roster.

Ariza (another guy Wash should have no interest in holding onto) would have been the perfect guy to get from them for that Posey role, but the contracts make it difficult.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 10:47:21 AM
I don't see what holds up a Jeff Green for Okafor swap once the trade restriction expires.  It makes no sense to me for Washington to want him. 

C. Lee + J. Green + Sullinger for M. Webster + Okafor

Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Webster
KG/Bass/Wilcox
Okafor/KG/Wilcox

I love that roster.

Ariza (another guy Wash should have no interest in holding onto) would have been the perfect guy to get from them for that Posey role, but the contracts make it difficult.

Well, Okafor looking completely cooked would hold it up a bit. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: action781 on December 20, 2012, 10:57:35 AM
I don't see what holds up a Jeff Green for Okafor swap once the trade restriction expires.  It makes no sense to me for Washington to want him. 

C. Lee + J. Green + Sullinger for M. Webster + Okafor

Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Webster
KG/Bass/Wilcox
Okafor/KG/Wilcox

I love that roster.

Ariza (another guy Wash should have no interest in holding onto) would have been the perfect guy to get from them for that Posey role, but the contracts make it difficult.

Well, Okafor looking completely cooked would hold it up a bit.

Could be wrong, but I think a lot of centers would look pretty cooked on that team.  How would Perk look on that team?  How would Tyson Chandler even look on that team?  I'm not looking for the stars and moon here (we aren't getting that for Jeff Green), I'm looking for a role player - a defensive minded center.  Those aren't very easy to pry away from teams as you can see by the Cavs reported unwillingness to part with Varejao.

In limited minutes in that home game vs. washington, Okafor did very little that showed up in the box score, but played exactly how I remember him playing in New Orleans and that's exactly what I think this team needs.  I haven't seen him play much this season aside from that.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
I don't see what holds up a Jeff Green for Okafor swap once the trade restriction expires.  It makes no sense to me for Washington to want him. 

C. Lee + J. Green + Sullinger for M. Webster + Okafor

Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Webster
KG/Bass/Wilcox
Okafor/KG/Wilcox

I love that roster.

Ariza (another guy Wash should have no interest in holding onto) would have been the perfect guy to get from them for that Posey role, but the contracts make it difficult.

Well, Okafor looking completely cooked would hold it up a bit.

Could be wrong, but I think a lot of centers would look pretty cooked on that team.  How would Perk look on that team?  How would Tyson Chandler even look on that team?  I'm not looking for the stars and moon here (we aren't getting that for Jeff Green), I'm looking for a role player - a defensive minded center.  Those aren't very easy to pry away from teams as you can see by the Cavs reported unwillingness to part with Varejao.


This is true, but he has looked pretty bad for a few years now.  He still puts up some numbers, but they have been getting more and more empty each year. 

He would be a guy that would be an interesting get on a cheap contract, but they would have to send out at least 2 rotation players to even match his salary, which makes it a no go in my book.  If we want a washed up, undersized center, Kenyon Martin is cheaper. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: CFAN38 on December 20, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
I have posted before that a trade built around Lee and Bass for Okafor would fix alot of the Cs problems. But not many reasons for Wiz to do it.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: BballTim on December 20, 2012, 11:24:52 AM
What the hell does chris Wilcox do better than Martin?

Wilcox is a great dunker within 2 feet of the rim. Might as well have Hollins(except Hollins was better defensively and a better agitator)

"There's a reason why he's still out there' yeah a stupid reason. There's a reason why Stiemsma was a bench player for Wisconsin and a perrenial D league player as well right?

Maybe Danny doesn't want him for some reason but its not for something stupidly vague like "no one else is interested"

  Nobody said that the reason Danny doesn't want Martin is that "no one else is interested". But you must admit that if someone like Martin can't latch on with *any* team that either his skills have eroded or he's too much trouble to deal with.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Who on December 20, 2012, 12:08:17 PM
I don't see what holds up a Jeff Green for Okafor swap once the trade restriction expires.  It makes no sense to me for Washington to want him. 

C. Lee + J. Green + Sullinger for M. Webster + Okafor

Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Webster
KG/Bass/Wilcox
Okafor/KG/Wilcox

I love that roster.

Ariza (another guy Wash should have no interest in holding onto) would have been the perfect guy to get from them for that Posey role, but the contracts make it difficult.

Well, Okafor looking completely cooked would hold it up a bit.

Could be wrong, but I think a lot of centers would look pretty cooked on that team.  How would Perk look on that team?  How would Tyson Chandler even look on that team?  I'm not looking for the stars and moon here (we aren't getting that for Jeff Green), I'm looking for a role player - a defensive minded center.  Those aren't very easy to pry away from teams as you can see by the Cavs reported unwillingness to part with Varejao.


This is true, but he has looked pretty bad for a few years now.  He still puts up some numbers, but they have been getting more and more empty each year. 

He would be a guy that would be an interesting get on a cheap contract, but they would have to send out at least 2 rotation players to even match his salary, which makes it a no go in my book.  If we want a washed up, undersized center, Kenyon Martin is cheaper.

I think Okafor has more up and down than finished. One year, he plays very well. The next, he is terrible. Then he plays well again. Then mediocre. Now bad again.

I have no idea what to expect from him. I think there is still some ability there but I don't trust him to perform. He is too unreliable.

That said, if there are not better options available, I am happy to roll the dice on Okafor. You can't get much better a situation than Boston with players like Rondo and Garnett alongside him. Worthy risk.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Texstyles on December 21, 2012, 09:11:23 AM
Sorry guys I was not around yest. to respond to this post.  I was not taking a shot at KG's play at Center at all with this post. When I said get a real Center, I meant that as to play along side him. I think he is great at both positions, I just like the floating around KG better then the battling in the post KG on the Def. end. Getting a more Def. PF and leave KG at Center would also work but I liked him at PF better
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 21, 2012, 09:41:10 AM
Sorry guys I was not around yest. to respond to this post.  I was not taking a shot at KG's play at Center at all with this post. When I said get a real Center, I meant that as to play along side him. I think he is great at both positions, I just like the floating around KG better then the battling in the post KG on the Def. end. Getting a more Def. PF and leave KG at Center would also work but I liked him at PF better

Defensively, I agree.  I like KG being able to be the guy working the pick and rolls on the perimeter, while you have another stout defender down low.

However, offensively, I think KG is MUCH more effective against centers.  His post game has all but disappeared, as he no longer has the lift that he used to, or the quickness to compete with the athletic 4s in the league, and can't make the smaller guys pay like he used to in the post.  But, when he has a big man on him, he can use that 15 foot jumper (which has become like a layup to him), or take them off the dribble/beat them to the hoop on a pick and roll, because he may not be as quick as the 4s anymore, but he is still quicker than most 5s. 

Its a give and take. 

This is why it ultimately comes down to talent in my mind.  If you put him with real starting talent, whether they are a 4 or a 5, KG is going to have an advantage on at least one end of the floor.  But, when you put him with mediocre players, then the other team can just cross match him, forcing him to cover their best scorer, while putting their best defender on him.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: LB3533 on December 21, 2012, 09:47:41 AM
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: ctrey on December 21, 2012, 10:09:19 AM
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 21, 2012, 10:18:12 AM
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: LB3533 on December 21, 2012, 10:41:31 AM
However, if Collins or Wilcox continue to start at Center, there is a chance this can mitigate our poor perimeter defense.

Mitigate meaning we have another bigger body to clog up the paint. Now will this stop the easy baskets?? Probably not every time, but at least this way opponents won't be waltzing into the paint uncontested nearly every trip down.

I am not in favor of starting Collins, by the way. Maybe Wilcox.

I have no problem with KG at Center, I think that is his best position right now in his career and in today's NBA climate where dominating Centers are an extinct breed.

But if our perimeter D can pick up the slack, this would reduce the need for secondary or 3rd line defense to always need to step up/rotate to guard the rim.

And it might be a time to tinker with the way we defend the pick and roll.

Maybe we should switch more or try to fight harder through the picks?

For some reason, the majority of our Celtics are not yet in tune with the rotating schemes on the pick and roll defense.

Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: BballTim on December 21, 2012, 11:49:37 AM
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

  Wednesday was a step in the right direction though. They could use a little positive momentum.
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: Chris on December 21, 2012, 12:18:59 PM
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

  Wednesday was a step in the right direction though. They could use a little positive momentum.

Absolutely.  But the tailspin isn't over until they win 3, 4, 5 in a row.

But you can't do that, if you don't win the first one.

I think Danny was pretty honest on the radio the other day, when he said he doesn't expect them to completely pull out of it for at least a few more weeks based on what he has seen.  It is a work in progress, and they are trying to find their identity. 

I think at some point, it is going to click.  Now, that doesn't mean they are going to suddenly be challenging the Heat, but they should be better than they are now. 
Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: esel1000 on December 21, 2012, 12:28:25 PM
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

  Wednesday was a step in the right direction though. They could use a little positive momentum.

Absolutely.  But the tailspin isn't over until they win 3, 4, 5 in a row.

But you can't do that, if you don't win the first one.

I think Danny was pretty honest on the radio the other day, when he said he doesn't expect them to completely pull out of it for at least a few more weeks based on what he has seen.  It is a work in progress, and they are trying to find their identity. 

I think at some point, it is going to click.  Now, that doesn't mean they are going to suddenly be challenging the Heat, but they should be better than they are now.

I agree with you and think they'll get there, I just don't get why it takes this long for us...

I mean look at the Knicks, they have a ton of new pieces are are constantly making line up changes. I mean they have Melo to lead them, but we have Rondo...

Spurs have a similar roster (though Splitter gives them the edge) yet their record is much better and they play much more consistently.

Honestly for the first 10-15 games I used this as a reason because it is legit for a team that has a lot of new pieces, but now it just looks bad. Now it looks like they've gone from good team that needs time to .500 team 25 games in. Nobody expected it to take this long for the roster to gel or else we wouldn't have been happy with these moves in the offseason and DA would have done things differently. I feel like there's no excuse at this point. Bradley back and getting some sort of rebounding center (like Hickson or Gortat) to pair kg and sully up with would help but this team has done some head shaking things that simply should not happen with a roster like this. DA basically listed them out...

Title: Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
Post by: mgent on December 22, 2012, 10:17:31 AM
KG doesn't block a lot of shots anymore but he sure as hell protects the rim.
Even when KG was playing 40 minutes a game and was the second best defender in the history of the league, he didn't block a lot of shots, especially relative to other elite defenders.

Yeah, he's capable of protecting the rim, but that's clearly not what his body was built to do, thus why he said he's 6'11" and chose PF.  He admits those guys are bigger than him and doesn't want to play that physical game.

He's an agitator.  He wants to run around, take up tons of space out on the perimeter, and never even let the team get IN the paint while a much bigger guy like Perk is behind him. 

Perkins and JO were our last lines of defense, blocking more shots than KG, and giving the hard, rough fouls at the rim.  Even Stiemsma allowed KG to do what he does best.