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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Tr1boy on December 19, 2012, 10:30:01 PM

Title: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Tr1boy on December 19, 2012, 10:30:01 PM
Like i mentioned previously, small ball only works against certain teams. And we had to adjust to both 76rs and heats speed last playoffs. Anyways took a lifetime to just simply but KG back at pf. It somehow shaved off 2 years of his age. Collins was effective tonight as the starting center, but it was against the cavs. The celts can see a legit center can make a huge difference.

If collins as a role center did what he did for the lineup tonight i would love to see what melo could do if given a chance. All collins is good to do is set good picks, not make mistakes and use his big body to alter shots/fight in the paint. If melo can just do these basic things the same, follow collins, plus is a much better shot blocker, rebounder and scorer, we could be a better team than we have been all year long.

I know Melo is raw but he needs experience. It took Deandre Jordan a few years but look at him now. Melo and Jordan imo are very comparable players. You don't have to start him but play him a few mins on the 2nd unit for the next few games. See what he can do. If he screws up, you can send him back to the nbdl and try to acquire a decent center.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Fafnir on December 19, 2012, 10:34:23 PM
If Paul Pierce scores 40 points on 16 shots I don't think it really matters who the center is. So unless you think Collins sparked Pierce tonight I don't see how this makes the case to bring up Melo.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: PhoSita on December 19, 2012, 10:39:29 PM
The thing is, as useless as Collins is in terms of impacting the box score, he stills knows where he's supposed to be and when, and he doesn't tend to make many mistakes out there.  He might be slow, but he knows his role and he does it.

Melo has very little idea how to properly play the game of basketball.  Put him out there and he'd miss at least half his rotations and cause the Celtics to give up more points than he'd help prevent. 
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Tr1boy on December 19, 2012, 10:47:15 PM
The thing is, as useless as Collins is in terms of impacting the box score, he stills knows where he's supposed to be and when, and he doesn't tend to make many mistakes out there.  He might be slow, but he knows his role and he does it.

Melo has very little idea how to properly play the game of basketball.  Put him out there and he'd miss at least half his rotations and cause the Celtics to give up more points than he'd help prevent.

You make it sound like Melo is fresh from Brazil just picking up a basketball. He came from a very good program playing for Syracuse and was a big part in helping them have one of the best records last year. Some state due to his academic mess up it could of cost the team of a championship.

I think is also great he learned zone defense because the celtics use a hybrid ind/zone defense to cause other teams issues. He just needs to nail the ind defense down. Bring him up and have him go against other teams 2nd unit and lets see what happens
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 19, 2012, 10:49:56 PM
The thing is, as useless as Collins is in terms of impacting the box score, he stills knows where he's supposed to be and when, and he doesn't tend to make many mistakes out there.  He might be slow, but he knows his role and he does it.

Melo has very little idea how to properly play the game of basketball.  Put him out there and he'd miss at least half his rotations and cause the Celtics to give up more points than he'd help prevent.

You make it sound like Melo is fresh from Brazil just picking up a basketball. He came from a very good program playing for Syracuse and was a big part in helping them have one of the best records last year. Some state due to his academic mess up it could of cost the team of a championship.

I think is also great he learned zone defense because the celtics use a hybrid ind/zone defense to cause other teams issues. He just needs to nail the ind defense down. Bring him up and have him go against other teams 2nd unit and lets see what happens

Isn't the zone blamed for the failure of most 'Cuse products?
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Edgar on December 19, 2012, 10:51:15 PM
I dont know...

tough call but if Collins and KG teach him a cheap trick or two I can live with a young banger in this team , maybe next year will be the right time to do that
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: LarBrd33 on December 19, 2012, 10:54:40 PM
Yeah I agree.  He's the 10th best player on our D-League Roster.  Give him a shot.   We're trying to tank, right?
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: ScoobyDoo on December 19, 2012, 10:55:13 PM
I'm all for bringing Melo up for a run - I knwo that we are currently ranked #1 in the Power ranking and we want to be careful not to mess that up, but, I'd give it a shot.

And here is a "reallY" crazy, crazy idea. How about playing Melo along side KG and within a Zone defense - try it for 10 minutes, see what happens.

I can't remember when we did it, but I think it was at some point in last year's playoffs and we had a pretty effective Zone.

I know, I know, it would require some creativity in finding ways to utilize players most familiar strengths, but...
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Tr1boy on December 19, 2012, 10:56:35 PM
If Paul Pierce scores 40 points on 16 shots I don't think it really matters who the center is. So unless you think Collins sparked Pierce tonight I don't see how this makes the case to bring up Melo.

Its not collins but having a decent center out there is better for Pierces game. You throw the ball in to collins, and the guy guarding pierce gets off track a little. Pierce can lose him or once getting the ball back, have a step on him. Without a decent centre, the celtics have keep playing hot potato around the key and that does nothing for pierce except have defenders on him like glue.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: ScoobyDoo on December 19, 2012, 10:56:56 PM
Put a lot of Spped on wth wings when you do it:

Melo - plant him in the middle
KG - Free safety
Pierce, Lee and Rondo right now
Pierce, Rondo and Bradley once AB comes back.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Edgar on December 19, 2012, 10:57:43 PM
If Paul Pierce scores 40 points on 16 shots I don't think it really matters who the center is. So unless you think Collins sparked Pierce tonight I don't see how this makes the case to bring up Melo.

Its not collins but having a decent center out there is better for Pierces game. You throw the ball in to collins, and the guy guarding pierce gets off track a little. Pierce can lose him or once getting the ball back, have a step on him. Without a decent centre, the celtics have keep playing hot potato around the key and that does nothing for pierce except have defenders on him like glue.

Even when Collins isnt offensive presence at all this help on D too. They play transition better tonight with someone helping to box out even when not rebounding himself. thats the value I am talking about the Box out i am not nonexistant center who cares about getting the ball back
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Celtics18 on December 19, 2012, 11:54:21 PM
I say, no need to rush things.  I'm fine with taking it nice and Melo.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: RJ87 on December 20, 2012, 12:03:20 AM
Melo is so, so, so raw as a player. He's just nowhere near ready for prime time. We drafted him as a longterm project. I'd rather leave him in the d-league and let him develop at his own pace instead of playing him too soon and risk breaking his confidence.

Really, it'd just be best if people forget about Melo until next season. I think its fair to hope that he can give us 10-15 mins as a rotation guy next season, anything sooner than that seems farfetched.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on December 20, 2012, 12:10:23 AM
I agree.

I understand he's so raw and still figuring things out. But one thing he can contribute right now is really needed, his shot blocking presence. At worse he'll challenge anyone's shot in the paint. Anything good out of that is a bonus.

I mean c'mon, we have no Center outside of Collins. I'd call him up and give him a consistent 10-12 minutes per game (about 3 a quarter), just to see what he can do. He showed he can learn and. Improve at a very fast pace, practicing with the main roster might help him better than playing in the d-league. And even I he's not yet ready, like I said, he will at least alter a lot of shots.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: RJ87 on December 20, 2012, 12:17:48 AM
I agree.

I understand he's so raw and still figuring things out. But one thing he can contribute right now is really needed, his shot blocking presence. At worse he'll challenge anyone's shot in the paint. Anything good out of that is a bonus.

I mean c'mon, we have no Center outside of Collins. I'd call him up and give him a consistent 10-12 minutes per game (about 3 a quarter), just to see what he can do. He showed he can learn and. Improve at a very fast pace, practicing with the main roster might help him better than playing in the d-league. And even I he's not yet ready, like I said, he will at least alter a lot of shots.

Him constantly being missing defensive rotations and being out of position on the defensive end/being a constant foul machine will negate any blocked shots. And then when you factor his complete lack of offensive polish, it just makes no sense to bring him up... He's still practicing with the main team, but I much rather he consistently get 30 mins a game in the d-league, as opposed to a sporadic 10 mins a game with the C's.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Ogaju on December 20, 2012, 12:35:06 AM
Like i mentioned previously, small ball only works against certain teams. And we had to adjust to both 76rs and heats speed last playoffs. Anyways took a lifetime to just simply but KG back at pf. It somehow shaved off 2 years of his age. Collins was effective tonight as the starting center, but it was against the cavs. The celts can see a legit center can make a huge difference.

If collins as a role center did what he did for the lineup tonight i would love to see what melo could do if given a chance. All collins is good to do is set good picks, not make mistakes and use his big body to alter shots/fight in the paint. If melo can just do these basic things the same, follow collins, plus is a much better shot blocker, rebounder and scorer, we could be a better team than we have been all year long.

I know Melo is raw but he needs experience. It took Deandre Jordan a few years but look at him now. Melo and Jordan imo are very comparable players. You don't have to start him but play him a few mins on the 2nd unit for the next few games. See what he can do. If he screws up, you can send him back to the nbdl and try to acquire a decent center.

Thoughts?

Dont you know we are the BOSTON CELTICS and you cannot play for us unless you are absolutely perfect. Melo is not perfect so he does not play.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 20, 2012, 07:53:04 AM
You guys DO realise that Collins is probably in the running for the "Worst Center in the NBA" title right now, right?

I'm sure he's probably top 10 on that list given that his net rating is something like a -20...which is about 3x as bad as anybody else on our team.

Melo is a better passer, better rebounder, better P&R defender and better shot blocker RIGHT NOW.  He's a terrible offensive player, but Collins is probably the worst offensive player in the entire NBA.  Melo (given some experience) could not possible be worse then Collins offensively.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 20, 2012, 08:23:43 AM
The thing is, as useless as Collins is in terms of impacting the box score, he stills knows where he's supposed to be and when, and he doesn't tend to make many mistakes out there.  He might be slow, but he knows his role and he does it.

Melo has very little idea how to properly play the game of basketball.  Put him out there and he'd miss at least half his rotations and cause the Celtics to give up more points than he'd help prevent.

Yeah I gotta go with this. As ineffective as Collins might be, at least he knows his rotations and knows where he needs to be. Whether thats setting a screen on a play, boxing out for somebody else, or bodying up a man on a defensive rotation.

Melo is clueless on all of the above at this point.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: action781 on December 20, 2012, 09:53:13 AM
The thing is, as useless as Collins is in terms of impacting the box score, he stills knows where he's supposed to be and when, and he doesn't tend to make many mistakes out there.  He might be slow, but he knows his role and he does it.

Melo has very little idea how to properly play the game of basketball.  Put him out there and he'd miss at least half his rotations and cause the Celtics to give up more points than he'd help prevent.

Yeah I gotta go with this. As ineffective as Collins might be, at least he knows his rotations and knows where he needs to be. Whether thats setting a screen on a play, boxing out for somebody else, or bodying up a man on a defensive rotation.

Melo is clueless on all of the above at this point.

Yeah, Melo looked lost in the preseason out there.  The NBA game is too fast for him right now.  He needs some more time in the D-league to get half way there, then will probably still struggle a little when he gets to the NBA.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: TripleOT on December 20, 2012, 01:25:06 PM
I've watched some Melo D league play.  He's not ready to play real NBA minutes. 

Collins might be the worst center in the league statistically, but if I'm a team that wants to establish some kind or physical presence in the paint, and don't need offense out of my center, I'd play him. 

I can't remember him even touching the ball on offense last night, except for getting fouled and shooting two FTs. It didn't seem to hurt the offense too much playing him half the game. 

I'd stick with the Collins experiment for a while.     
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Chris on December 20, 2012, 01:43:25 PM
I've watched some Melo D league play.  He's not ready to play real NBA minutes. 

Collins might be the worst center in the league statistically, but if I'm a team that wants to establish some kind or physical presence in the paint, and don't need offense out of my center, I'd play him. 

I can't remember him even touching the ball on offense last night, except for getting fouled and shooting two FTs. It didn't seem to hurt the offense too much playing him half the game. 

I'd stick with the Collins experiment for a while.   

Yeah, Collins did the same thing for Atlanta.  They needed to establish a physical inside presence, and Collins gave them that.  He is not a very good player, but he can fill that need, if your team has it.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Edgar on December 20, 2012, 01:46:31 PM
I've watched some Melo D league play.  He's not ready to play real NBA minutes. 

Collins might be the worst center in the league statistically, but if I'm a team that wants to establish some kind or physical presence in the paint, and don't need offense out of my center, I'd play him. 

I can't remember him even touching the ball on offense last night, except for getting fouled and shooting two FTs. It didn't seem to hurt the offense too much playing him half the game. 

I'd stick with the Collins experiment for a while.   

Yeah, Collins did the same thing for Atlanta.  They needed to establish a physical inside presence, and Collins gave them that.  He is not a very good player, but he can fill that need, if your team has it.

TripleOT and Edgar = Jason Collins fan club in the making.  ;D
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Tr1boy on December 22, 2012, 08:14:34 PM
Fab Melo has had a string of good games. But man tonight so far he is DOMINATING on the boards. I know its nbdl, but still , its his first FAB game. And the game is not even finished yet, but so far he has

8pts, 11 rebounds, 8 blocks.

Yeah 8 blocks. Man could the celtics use a guy who can block 8 shots in one whole game
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 22, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
Fab Melo has had a string of good games. But man tonight so far he is DOMINATING on the boards. I know its nbdl, but still , its his first FAB game. And the game is not even finished yet, but so far he has

8pts, 11 rebounds, 8 blocks.

Yeah 8 blocks. Man could the celtics use a guy who can block 8 shots in one whole game

TP.

Watching now.

Fab Melo's right hook shot looks good.

And he's just inhaling rebounds. VERY active. Maybe he had a rebounding epiphany.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Tr1boy on December 22, 2012, 08:32:58 PM
i'm watching the game now. And even though he has 8 blocks and 11 rebounds, he looks winded out there. He needs to do HIIT workouts on his off days and build his explosiveness/stamina. He isn't making mistakes out on the court, so that is not the problem.

Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 22, 2012, 08:38:37 PM
i'm watching the game now. And even though he has 8 blocks and 11 rebounds, he looks winded out there. He needs to do HIIT workouts on his off days and build his explosiveness/stamina. He isn't making mistakes out on the court, so that is not the problem.

Great to know *it's not just me who thinks* he's not making mistakes!

Does seem a bit tired but he's still hustling down the floor, boxing out, active on D. Great signs!

Edit: WOOOT 2 o-rebs (1:53:00) and putback!!!
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on December 22, 2012, 08:47:40 PM
Ha, just send Melo to San Antonio for a year, he'll be starting, or backing up Duncan.....but not on the Celts.....isn't it getting OLD how ALL docs rookies are never played, then just gone in a tear or two...compared to Popoviches picks.....PLAYERS.....Hey doc....just study pop, steal his ideas, say they were yours all along....i know other leaders who do that...LOL...!
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 22, 2012, 08:58:37 PM
FAB MELO WITH THE TRIPLE DOUBLE IN BLOCKS, REBOUNDS AND POINTS :D
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: D.o.s. on December 22, 2012, 09:05:33 PM
Ha, just send Melo to San Antonio for a year, he'll be starting, or backing up Duncan.....but not on the Celts.....isn't it getting OLD how ALL docs rookies are never played, then just gone in a tear or two...compared to Popoviches picks.....PLAYERS.....Hey doc....just study pop, steal his ideas, say they were yours all along....i know other leaders who do that...LOL...!

Doc not playing rookies is a relative myth that popped up last year, in a lockout season with no training camp when we had a pair of picks in a relatively weak draft (and our top pick from that class is currently spinning his tires in the D league).

While I think Doc relies too heavily on the players he knows (and runs up their regular season minutes accordingly), he does play rookies--when they're ready to contribute.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 22, 2012, 09:09:11 PM
Fab now has the D-League blocked shots record!!!

Edit: AND ANOTHER BLOCK!

AND ANOTHER! AND A REBOUND!
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on December 22, 2012, 09:09:58 PM
it is a myth to those who havent been here watching for ALL of docs years......what are you gonna tell me next...how doc loves rebounds/rebounders...LOL...!
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: D.o.s. on December 22, 2012, 09:19:53 PM
Rondo, Delonte, Big Al, Tony Allen, Perk... all those guys saw the floor as rookies under Doc.

But, you know, don't let facts get in the way of knee jerk responses.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: European NBA fan on December 22, 2012, 09:46:48 PM
i'm watching the game now. And even though he has 8 blocks and 11 rebounds, he looks winded out there. He needs to do HIIT workouts on his off days and build his explosiveness/stamina. He isn't making mistakes out on the court, so that is not the problem.

Great to know *it's not just me who thinks* he's not making mistakes!

Does seem a bit tired but he's still hustling down the floor, boxing out, active on D. Great signs!

Edit: WOOOT 2 o-rebs (1:53:00) and putback!!!

Fab hasn't played so much in the previous games. He usually plays under 25 minutes, so playing 36+ minutes should get him winded.

Also, he was simply everywhere in the 1st half. If he can play like that for a full game, he will soon be back in Boston at least for a dry run.
Title: Re: After tonights game, call up Melo and give him a tryout
Post by: Tr1boy on December 23, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
After yesterdays game(nbdl or not), no doubt that Melo will be an elite shot blocker in the nba. His timing is so good. And usually good shot blockers are also good rebounders. He is better at boxing out and fighting for position. He also looks like he has found a go to move offensively down low. A deadly right hand hook, where he likes to "duncan" the ball in off the backboards. Two things he needs the most is experience and get into better condition.

Look at this  clip, that is from summer league. 99 percent of players in the nba couldn't do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJAFJZ5OA1A