CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Big_Dave31 on December 19, 2012, 08:35:37 PM
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Hey guys,
I usually lurk around dropping my two cents into other forums, but, I thought I need to write my thinking here.
Pau is not meshing in with D'Antoni's system, everyone can see that. LA need to trade him to fit the model that D'Antoni has made successful.
I read an article on Real GM about how Pau does not have an issue playing with D12, he has an issue with D'Antoni's system.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225095/Gasol_Has_More_Issue_With_DAntonis_System_Than_Playing_With_Howard (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225095/Gasol_Has_More_Issue_With_DAntonis_System_Than_Playing_With_Howard)
In turn, D'Antoni has said "It's Pau who has to expand his game, and he'll expand out in the corner threes and he needs to take a couple, and we'll get him in the post when we can". He is not using Pau correctly, nor will he use Pau correctly.
What immediately came to my mind is, how Jeff Green has really improved his corner three ball this season. He would be a perfect fit in LA with Nash playing point, and the Lakers playing D'Antoni ball. Look, I am not delusional, Pau is obviously a MUCH better player than Jeff, but, for the system, Green could be a better fit. Especially with a big like Dwight paired with him. Look, if Rashard and Ryan Anderson can excel @ PF next to Dwight, no reason to think that Green couldn't either.
On top of that, the Lakers need Depth big time, so, if the Celtics offered a package around, say: Green, Bass or Lee, Sully or Bradley (depending if they take Bass or Lee) + picks, surely that has got to get it done? This makes the Lakers much more balanced and deeper.
What do you guys think? You think this could be somewhat realistic? Honestly, I think it is a good trade for LA, but, the only thing that may stop them from moving forward with this is the fact that this could make one of their biggest rivals a contender.
If that falls through, we need another big, I would go after Gortat, offering Sully + Lee and maybe a pick or whatever is needed to get it done.
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I like Gasol, but his cap figure is too high, in regards of what we would have to give up in order to match salary. I don't mind giving up Green & Bass for him, but not Sully or Bradley too.
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Crazy money commitment for a guy that might not even put us over the top considering how this team is looking. Plus his injuries.
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It is a big money commitment, his contract is very rich, but, including this year, he has only two years left on this contract.
With the big three all tied in for the next three years, we wouldn't be able to really sign any impact players outright anyway, so the only way to get a high calibre player would be by trade.
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It is a big money commitment, his contract is very rich, but, including this year, he has only two years left on this contract.
With the big three all tied in for the next three years, we wouldn't be able to really sign any impact players outright anyway, so the only way to get a high calibre player would be by trade.
Also, a 30+ year old big man who's already sat out multiple games with general knee issues from wear and tear? I love Gasol and I thought his tenure with the Lakers is vastly underrated -- but he's clearly a huge risk right now.
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I like Gasol's all around game but his contract is an issue. Only way to make it plausible without gutting the team is to trade Pierce. I am of the group that I'd only trade Pierce if he requested it or he was ok with it.
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I don't mind Gasol and he would definitely give this team a new identity for a couple of years, but I really don't think it would be a good move to give up more than Green and Bass/Lee. We have decent assets in Bradley and Sullinger and I'd hate to give them up with picks in order to acquire an over the hill player that certainly doesn't give us a guarantee of a championship.
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Lets say the Cs and LAL agree to the following trade
Green + Bass + Lee
for
Gasol + Ebanks
Then our rotation becomes
pg Rondo
sg AB
sf Pierce
pf KG
c Gasol
6th Terry
7th Sully
8th Ebanks
La's Cecomes
pg Nash
Sg Lee/Meeks
SF Kobe
PF Green
C Howard
6th Lee/Meeks
7th Meta
8th Bass
My worry is how this celtics team will match up with NY and miami. When both teams go small and play SFs at PF (james, melo) how do the Cs match up? Also how will rondo play with Gasol?
In the end i say this is a solid win now trade but leaves the Cs with little for the post KG/PP era.
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Ok first of all you forgot about Barbosa/Wilcox/Collins/Melo/Joseph. Those guys are also on our team and a couple of them are worthy rotation players.
Second the C's will match up pretty well with NY/MIA because we can dominate the glass and paint. Both Gasol and Garnett are excellent passing big men and both can play pretty well in a fast paced offense.
Third you got the Lakers depth chart/lineup way wrong. Something like:
Nash
Bryant
Green
Bass
Howard
Looks a lot more right, with Metta/Jamison/Lee/Meeks coming off of the bench.
However I think the trade would be a win for both sides. I think Gasol puts the C's in a very good position to win the East and I have no worry about his knees. He's been maybe the most durable big man I can remember. Also next season he's a huge trading piece if it goes south. $20M expiring is worth a lot in today's NBA.
The Lakers can probably get more, they always seem to. I think the trade works for both sides and is a little slanted in favor of the C's but my guess is that Gasol will get moved to Toronto or Minnesota. The upside is that the packages those teams would offer don't really outshine ours so we'll see. Long past is the time when LA could have netted Josh Smith or some near-allstar for Gasol. That makes this trade very possible.
Oh and as a side note, I'm not making AB available in a trade for Gasol. Sully could be workable but AB is off the table in this trade for me.
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I like Gasol, and think he'd be a good fit in Boston, but I think that Boston can get what it needs—for much cheaper and younger—with Gortat.
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My worry is how this celtics team will match up with NY and miami. When both teams go small and play SFs at PF (james, melo) how do the Cs match up? Also how will rondo play with Gasol?
This works both ways though. MIA could not guard us when we went big. I would take my chances with KG playing off them and making them shoot jumpers. Sure, they are going to beat you when hot but these guys are not great jumpers. Melo is the more dangerous of the two but LeBron is very streaky although his mid range has improved some. Both shoot around 1 out of three from the arc. If they go to the hole put them on their back a few times and they might stop trying.
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Proposed trade is no where near enough.
Minnesota has reportedly offered Pekovic and Williams (plus other players have to be included just to get to the salary).
Toronto has also reportedly offered Bargnani and Calderon.
Both of those trades are far better packages than anything Boston can offer short of Rondo. So no trade for Pau will be possible. A total and utter pipe dream.
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Proposed trade is no where near enough.
Minnesota has reportedly offered Pekovic and Williams (plus other players have to be included just to get to the salary).
Toronto has also reportedly offered Bargnani and Calderon.
Both of those trades are far better packages than anything Boston can offer short of Rondo. So no trade for Pau will be possible. A total and utter pipe dream.
Wow, Bargniani and Calderon would really help the Lakers. Bargniani would fit in very well next to Dwight Howard, and Calderon is not only a top level backup pg, but the best Nash insurance they can get.
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Proposed trade is no where near enough.
Minnesota has reportedly offered Pekovic and Williams (plus other players have to be included just to get to the salary).
Toronto has also reportedly offered Bargnani and Calderon.
Both of those trades are far better packages than anything Boston can offer short of Rondo. So no trade for Pau will be possible. A total and utter pipe dream.
Those trades are pretty weak. Bargnani and Calderon are pretty weak players, Williams is pretty underwhelming and Pekovic (not exactly a star) plays the same position as Dwight Howard.
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Proposed trade is no where near enough.
Minnesota has reportedly offered Pekovic and Williams (plus other players have to be included just to get to the salary).
Toronto has also reportedly offered Bargnani and Calderon.
Both of those trades are far better packages than anything Boston can offer short of Rondo. So no trade for Pau will be possible. A total and utter pipe dream.
Those trades are pretty weak. Bargnani and Calderon are pretty weak players, Williams is pretty underwhelming and Pekovic (not exactly a star) plays the same position as Dwight Howard.
I don't know, I see those as both very good offers for Gasol. Do you honestly consider some combo of Bass, Lee, Green any better?
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Proposed trade is no where near enough.
Minnesota has reportedly offered Pekovic and Williams (plus other players have to be included just to get to the salary).
Toronto has also reportedly offered Bargnani and Calderon.
Both of those trades are far better packages than anything Boston can offer short of Rondo. So no trade for Pau will be possible. A total and utter pipe dream.
Those trades are pretty weak. Bargnani and Calderon are pretty weak players, Williams is pretty underwhelming and Pekovic (not exactly a star) plays the same position as Dwight Howard.
I don't know, I see those as both very good offers for Gasol. Do you honestly consider some combo of Bass, Lee, Green any better?
I don't think it's clearly worse. Lee and Bass aren't playing that great this year but both played better last year, and you could argue that their issues are team issues (like undefined roles) this year.
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
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Lets say the Cs and LAL agree to the following trade
Green + Bass + Lee
for
Gasol + Ebanks
Then our rotation becomes
pg Rondo
sg AB
sf Pierce
pf KG
c Gasol
6th Terry
7th Sully
8th Ebanks
La's Cecomes
pg Nash
Sg Lee/Meeks
SF Kobe
PF Green
C Howard
6th Lee/Meeks
7th Meta
8th Bass
My worry is how this celtics team will match up with NY and miami. When both teams go small and play SFs at PF (james, melo) how do the Cs match up? Also how will rondo play with Gasol?
In the end i say this is a solid win now trade but leaves the Cs with little for the post KG/PP era.
So let me get this straight, Kobe starts at SF and Green starts at PF for the Lakers. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.... NOT.
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Koz,
If anyone can cover for Green being a soft PF, it would be Superman!!!! It does make sense when you consider that Dwight is maybe 75-80% back from his back surgery. He could cover for Green now and will be MORE than able to toward the end of the season.
Smitty77
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
Talent wise, it seems that Sota & Toronto's packages are better, but, do they fit with what the Lakers have already? Also, do they fit D'Antoni's system?
Toronto's package in that sense does fit the system, but, Calderon would be redundant behind Nash & Blake, so it just leaves them with Bargani...
Sota's package is no good for them as previously stated. If they could maybe get AK47 in there, it could be much better for them rather than Pekovic.
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Why don't we try to trade Green and something for Bargnani and Pietrus?
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Why don't we try to trade Green and something for Bargnani and Pietrus?
Because we don't need another big man who is a mediocre rebounder, doesn't block shots, and likes to shoot jumpers?
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
I'm not really big on Bass, Green or Lee but you're crazy if you think the Raptors offer is tremendously better. I guess you load up on the purple kool aid.
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
Talent wise, it seems that Sota & Toronto's packages are better, but, do they fit with what the Lakers have already? Also, do they fit D'Antoni's system?
Toronto's package in that sense does fit the system, but, Calderon would be redundant behind Nash & Blake, so it just leaves them with Bargani...
Sota's package is no good for them as previously stated. If they could maybe get AK47 in there, it could be much better for them rather than Pekovic.
Nash is old and unreliable, there is no guarantee he holds up very long and he can't play major minutes anyway. There is no way, on any team, that Blake plays over Calderon. Calderon is 100x the player that Blake is, and would add a lot to the lakers. I really hope they don't get him. Bargniani, if he recovers in time from his torn elbow ligament, is the perfect complement to D12. A 7 footer with a great jumper who can spread the floor.
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Why don't we try to trade Green and something for Bargnani and Pietrus?
Because we don't need another big man who is a mediocre rebounder, doesn't block shots, and likes to shoot jumpers?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
I'm not really big on Bass, Green or Lee but you're crazy if you think the Raptors offer is tremendously better. I guess you load up on the purple kool aid.
I totally agree. We would be giving up three players signed to [about] market value contracts who have proven to be major rotational players on good teams. I know they aren't necessarily currently playing up to expectations, but they aren't trash, either. They were all just signed to their current contracts this past off-season!!
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
I'm not really big on Bass, Green or Lee but you're crazy if you think the Raptors offer is tremendously better. I guess you load up on the purple kool aid.
I totally agree. We would be giving up three players signed to [about] market value contracts who have proven to be major rotational players on good teams. I know they aren't necessarily currently playing up to expectations, but they aren't trash, either. They were all just signed to their current contracts this past off-season!!
Green's contract is "market value"? Really? Bass is a decent bench player on a fair contract. Lee is an average SG signed to an average deal, but why would teams trade an all-star for these guys?
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Knowing Danny Ainge, he'll find some way to trade for Tyreke Evans and Andrea Bargnani and our team will make no sense and somehow be better.
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I actually think Green, Bass, and Lee have tremendous value for the Lakers, given that they have a need at all of these positions.
Green will start at SF, Lee is an adequate backup at SG, and they need a PF who can shoulder large minutes behind Jamison - all of these are clear team needs.
I'm just not interested in giving up that much for Gasol at this stage of his career.
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Hpantazo,
Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan. Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.
As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard. And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project. He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.
Smitty77
You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.
Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct. Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages. Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.
I'm not really big on Bass, Green or Lee but you're crazy if you think the Raptors offer is tremendously better. I guess you load up on the purple kool aid.
I totally agree. We would be giving up three players signed to [about] market value contracts who have proven to be major rotational players on good teams. I know they aren't necessarily currently playing up to expectations, but they aren't trash, either. They were all just signed to their current contracts this past off-season!!
Green's contract is "market value"? Really? Bass is a decent bench player on a fair contract. Lee is an average SG signed to an average deal, but why would teams trade an all-star for these guys?
Yes, Green's contract is market value. That is what we were told by Ainge and by Green's agent. I don't see why the Celtics would pay far above what he was worth, just for fun. I stand by that statement, as I don't think any of those players, if signed today, would receive substantially less.
As for Pau, you are delusional if you still believe he is a top notch, all-star player. He is very good, but is also making $20 m/y and that is way way way too much for him - especially for a team that has so little depth. Heck, KG isn't even an all-star anymore, and I would take him over Pau 100/100 times.
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I think Courtney Lee is a great fit in Mike D'Antoni's offense and playing off of players like Steve Nash and Dwight Howard. His minutes will be limited there though unless D'Antoni goes small and gives Kobe extended playing time at small forward.
I do not think Jeff Green is a good fit at small forward for LA. He needs too much of the ball. He isn't a particularly good shooter. Nor is he an impact defender or rebounder. Lukewarm fit. I also do not think Jeff Green is a good fit as an starting undersized quick four. He is too poor a defender and rebounder. Dwight Howard isn't going to change that.
I do not think Brandon Bass is a good fit. He is not a starting quality player due to his weaknesses as a defender and rebound. Plus, Bass never was a good fit alongside Dwight Howard. Not enough spacing or shot creation offensively to make up for the defensive and rebounding issues.
It's a fairly bad trade package. Not much value there.
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Bass averaged over 11 points and almost 6 rebounds in Orlando right before coming to us. Did I mention he shot a career high from the field. I don't think that means Bass was NEVER a good fit alongside DH.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandon_bass/career_stats.html
How can you say Green needs the ball too much. Did he not co-exist quite well with Durant and Westbrook in OKC and I believe averaged 16 and 6 on two 50-win teams out there. I do NOT think he NEEDS too much of the ball!!!! Granted, Jeff is NOT an impact defender. But, since when does Dantoni demand that:-)))
I think our package, if it is this, is by FAR the best. Willams sucks and might ALWAYS suck!! Bargnani is pure trash. He is was shooting under 40% prior to getting hurt.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/
He is terrible. They already have Jamison to gun.
Smitty77
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Why don't we try to trade Green and something for Bargnani and Pietrus?
Because we don't need another big man who is a mediocre rebounder, doesn't block shots, and likes to shoot jumpers?
I think mediocre rebounder is something of an understatement.
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Like Gasol, I think he still can contribute alot to the right team. The lakers have waited too late to dump him for a big haul.
He;ll probally wind up on the Mavs or Houston.
Money wise he is not the kind of bargain /deal I think Danny looks for.
Danny would wait till Gasol is taken by someone else stupid enough to pay for the contract and then get him for a song in another year.
Several centers I 'm hoping DA trades for , and he an't one of them.
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BballTim,
You are right. Bargnini averages 4.9 rebounds for his career and Green averages 5.4:-)) Both are horrible, but one is worse:-))))
Smitty77
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Bass averaged over 11 points and almost 6 rebounds in Orlando right before coming to us. Did I mention he shot a career high from the field. I don't think that means Bass was NEVER a good fit alongside DH.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandon_bass/career_stats.html
How can you say Green needs the ball too much. Did he not co-exist quite well with Durant and Westbrook in OKC and I believe averaged 16 and 6 on two 50-win teams out there. I do NOT think he NEEDS too much of the ball!!!! Granted, Jeff is NOT an impact defender. But, since when does Dantoni demand that:-)))
I think our package, if it is this, is by FAR the best. Willams sucks and might ALWAYS suck!! Bargnani is pure trash. He is was shooting under 40% prior to getting hurt.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/
He is terrible. They already have Jamison to gun.
Smitty77
I think you would be hard pressed to find even a single NBA GM who would take Bass over Bargniani.
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Like Gasol, I think he still can contribute alot to the right team. The lakers have waited to late to dump him for a big haul.
He;ll probally wind up on the Mavs or Houston.
Money wise he is not the kind of bargain /deal I think Danny does for.
Danny would wait till Gasol is taken by someone else stupid enough to pay fo rthe contract and then get him for a song in another year.
Several centers I 'm hoping DA trades for , and he an't one of them.
Yeah, I agree. I think Pau Gasol's trade value has fallen. Hugely.
There doesn't seem to be any way they can get a fair price for him. If they can get 70c on the dollar, I think they'd be doing well for themselves. And that could benefit their team given how little Gasol is contributing and is likely to contribute for this cast of Lakers.
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Hpantazo,
The trade included Lee and Green as well, right. BTW, all three of the players we would be trading are signed long term. Calderon would likely bolt at the end of the year. The Lakers will have only 7 players signed for next year, already totaling over 78M. That means NOT MUCH cap flexibility to sign someone like Calderon, whose contract expires.
Smitty77
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The only reason I see the lakers doing this is because the think they have a lack of depth and getting three decent role players for their bench could do them well. However they could get a better return and a much more impact full player for gasol without taking on the cap space and years they would here
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The Lakers just plain need to get rid of Gasol.
Gasol, while definitely in decline, could still be a very good player for the right team. He just no longer fits in LA. LA is in a tough spot though, They waited too long to trade him, as others have said.
If his knee checks out as ok, I'd gladly trade Green, Bass and Lee. I'd probably throw in Sully too.
As long as KG and Pierce on still opn the team, we are in "WIN NOW MODE". While Danny has done ok in bridging the gap, wasting KG and Pierce's last few seasons with an average team is a disgrace. It happens to guys frequently, but I am not willing to accept it. I doubt Danny or Wyc are either. Pierce and KG are definitely not.
Re-enforcements are nessecary.
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With that scenario im just worried about what will happen in the future if PP and KG retire. tanking is an option?
Gasol will only be serviceable up to 2 years.
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He;ll probally wind up on the Mavs or Houston.
The problem with both of those teams is the contracts. Houston's biggest contract is $8.3M and that is Lin. If they aren't trading Lin/Harden then the minimum number of contracts they would have to send out to match Gasol's would be 5. The numbers just don't work for Houston without involving another team.
The Mavs are pretty much the same. With Nowitzski as the exception all of their contracts are small-ish. It would take 3 minimum assuming LA wants Kaman and Marion, and they don't.
It's actually a common problem with trading for big contract players. There are only 6 guys who make more than Gasol who aren't amnesties.
I'm pretty close to convinced we have the best package available for Gasol. Atlanta took Smith off the table in that rumored swap and no one else is really offering much. If anyone else is offering better I've not seen it. Toronto is close with Bargnani/Calderon but I have no idea why Toronto wants an old expensive Gasol. They're in one of the two toughest divisions. They aren't going to get competitive with Gasol. Just broke.
My approach has been to only consider contending teams which narrows the search to about 12 teams. Philly could offer about the same package we can. Something like Hawes/Richardson/Wright/Brown for Gasol/Ebanks/Sacre.
Honestly Philly's is a worse package than Green/Bass/Lee/Sully by a significant margin. I also really shudder to think of the havoc on this board when Jeff Green starts having an all-star season for the Lakers and Lee's percentages sky rocket upon arrival.
For the record I'd want Earl Clark in the deal for Green. We would need a backup SF and I personally think if given reasonable minutes he'd be a fine bench player. He was really good at Louisville. Sacre just for another big body Doc won't play :)
With that scenario im just worried about what will happen in the future if PP and KG retire. tanking is an option?
Gasol will only be serviceable up to 2 years.
Probably not tanking but close. Rondo/Doc will be able to advertise to free agents and we'll be a middling team until Danny homeruns us another veteran all-star for peanuts.
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The problem with both of those teams is the contracts. Houston's biggest contract is $8.3M and that is Lin. If they aren't trading Lin/Harden then the minimum number of contracts they would have to send out to match Gasol's would be 5. The numbers just don't work for Houston without involving another team.
Houston is actually under the cap by about $8m, so Houston can theoretically make a deal that sends out only four players who aren't Asik, Lin, or Harden.
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Pekovic is a good player, but he isn't good enough to get Minny over the hump, Gasol is. So Minnesota would absolutely trade Pekovic, Williams, and Barea for Gasol and that would leave them with a starting 5 of Gasol, Love, AK 47, Lee, and Rubio with Shved, Budinger, Roy, Ridnour, Howard, and Cunningham not to mention Stiemer and Amundson on the bench. That would be a top 4 team in the West and would pose a lot of problems for every single team in the league including Miami.
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Bargs is a pretty weak player. He's a fairly inefficient scorer and takes about 4 three pointers a game even though he's been hitting about 30% of them over the last 2 years. He'd be considered a pretty decent rebounder if he was a point guard and isn't really known for his defense. And a Nash/Calderon back court would be quite a defensive liability..
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Bargs is a pretty weak player. He's a fairly inefficient scorer and takes about 4 three pointers a game even though he's been hitting about 30% of them over the last 2 years. He'd be considered a pretty decent rebounder if he was a point guard and isn't really known for his defense. And a Nash/Calderon back court would be quite a defensive liability..
When Bargs was playing with Bosh he was a pretty efficient scorer. Since Bosh left, he has had to uptick his shots and has way more defense on him and his efficiency has suffered because of it. You put him next to Dwight on a team with Kobe and he will go back to the 40% three point shooter and much closer to 50% overall. His defense will also greatly improve as he won't be playing out of position. Bargs is a better player than Jeff Green and would be a significantly better fit on L.A. and it really isn't close.
Calderon and Nash you couldn't really start, but they could certainly play a few minutes here and there together. Heck last game Boston started 6'2" Terry and 6'1" Rondo, not exactly a towering back court.
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Bargs is a pretty weak player. He's a fairly inefficient scorer and takes about 4 three pointers a game even though he's been hitting about 30% of them over the last 2 years. He'd be considered a pretty decent rebounder if he was a point guard and isn't really known for his defense. And a Nash/Calderon back court would be quite a defensive liability..
When Bargs was playing with Bosh he was a pretty efficient scorer. Since Bosh left, he has had to uptick his shots and has way more defense on him and his efficiency has suffered because of it. You put him next to Dwight on a team with Kobe and he will go back to the 40% three point shooter and much closer to 50% overall. His defense will also greatly improve as he won't be playing out of position. Bargs is a better player than Jeff Green and would be a significantly better fit on L.A. and it really isn't close.
Calderon and Nash you couldn't really start, but they could certainly play a few minutes here and there together. Heck last game Boston started 6'2" Terry and 6'1" Rondo, not exactly a towering back court.
Agreed. Bargniani is a much better player than Green and would thrive on both ends of the floor next to D12 and with Nash as a PG. Not even close. Calderon can certainly play together with Nash, and can take over once Nash retires. This is a much better deal for the lakers than what the celtics can offer unless we give up Bradley and Sullinger.
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If Toronto wants to get rid of Bargs, I'd take him. He is much better than what we have to offer in the front court now, and basically gives you what Jeff Green does, but with better shooting, a little shot blocking, and more at a position of need.
That would open up the floor even more for everyone else, and add someone other than Pierce and Terry, who you can count on as a 3 point threat.
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Bargs is a pretty weak player. He's a fairly inefficient scorer and takes about 4 three pointers a game even though he's been hitting about 30% of them over the last 2 years. He'd be considered a pretty decent rebounder if he was a point guard and isn't really known for his defense. And a Nash/Calderon back court would be quite a defensive liability..
When Bargs was playing with Bosh he was a pretty efficient scorer. Since Bosh left, he has had to uptick his shots and has way more defense on him and his efficiency has suffered because of it. You put him next to Dwight on a team with Kobe and he will go back to the 40% three point shooter and much closer to 50% overall. His defense will also greatly improve as he won't be playing out of position. Bargs is a better player than Jeff Green and would be a significantly better fit on L.A. and it really isn't close.
Calderon and Nash you couldn't really start, but they could certainly play a few minutes here and there together. Heck last game Boston started 6'2" Terry and 6'1" Rondo, not exactly a towering back court.
Bargs isn't really an efficient scorer and never really was. He's in his 7th season and he's only been over 40% on threes once. He's never come close to 50% overall, in fact he's only been over 45% once. I don't share your high hopes for any major defensive improvements. And the problem with Nash and Calderon on defense is their defense, not their size.
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Quote from: CFAN38 on Yesterday at 02:51:28 PM
Lets say the Cs and LAL agree to the following trade
Green + Bass + Lee
for
Gasol + Ebanks
Then our rotation becomes
pg Rondo
sg AB
sf Pierce
pf KG
c Gasol
6th Terry
7th Sully
8th Ebanks
La's Cecomes
pg Nash
Sg Lee/Meeks
SF Kobe
PF Green
C Howard
6th Lee/Meeks
7th Meta
8th Bass
My worry is how this celtics team will match up with NY and miami. When both teams go small and play SFs at PF (james, melo) how do the Cs match up? Also how will rondo play with Gasol?
In the end i say this is a solid win now trade but leaves the Cs with little for the post KG/PP era.
So let me get this straight, Kobe starts at SF and Green starts at PF for the Lakers. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.... NOT.
http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-kobe-bryant-expected-to-play-small-forward/2012/12/20/
.. The lakers announced the other day that they where going to start Kobe at SF and move meeks into the starting lineup in order to spread the floor better. So kobe at SF and Lee at SG is totally possible.
In weeks past meta was moved to the bench to play the role of stretch 4 when gasol is on the bench. Ebanks replaced him as the starter.
Jeff Green as a Dantoni PF makes alot of sense. He would sprad the floor and let them run.
To me this makes a lot of sense
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I wonder how fixated the Lakers are on 2014 cap space. It's going to be difficult for them to upgrade the team in a Pau trade if they are dogmatic about not adding any contracts that run past that date.
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I wonder how fixated the Lakers are on 2014 cap space. It's going to be difficult for them to upgrade the team in a Pau trade if they are dogmatic about not adding any contracts that run past that date.
I don't think it's going to be an important for LA. I can't see Kobe leaving in a year and half's time and I doubt the Lakers front office / ownership consider it a real possibility either.
They won't be willing to push Kobe aside to sign a different player either. They want Kobe to play his entire career there like Magic Johnson did. This isn't a Shaquille O'Neal type situation. This is a Magic Johnson type situation. Kobe isn't going anywhere.
Between Kobe and Dwight, they'll probably have $40 million tied up in those two alone. With other cap charges, they'll probably be up around $47-49 million so they'll have $8-12 million in cap space at most. And that is only if they cut their squad to the bare bones. Not enough upside there for LA.
I don't think cap space in 2014 has any importance in LA's decision making.
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I wonder how fixated the Lakers are on 2014 cap space. It's going to be difficult for them to upgrade the team in a Pau trade if they are dogmatic about not adding any contracts that run past that date.
I don't think it's going to be an important for LA. I can't see Kobe leaving in a year and half's time and I doubt the Lakers front office / ownership consider it a real possibility either.
They won't be willing to push Kobe aside to sign a different player either. They want Kobe to play his entire career there like Magic Johnson did. This isn't a Shaquille O'Neal type situation. This is a Magic Johnson type situation. Kobe isn't going anywhere.
Between Kobe and Dwight, they'll probably have $40 million tied up in those two alone. With other cap charges, they'll probably be up around $47-49 million so they'll have $8-12 million in cap space at most. And that is only if they cut their squad to the bare bones. Not enough upside there for LA.
I don't think cap space in 2014 has any importance in LA's decision making.
I was thinking their plan might be to get Kobe to take a discount, i.e. something along the lines of the KG deal, to bring the Kobe + Dwight total to something like $33 mil, opening up a max slot.
2014 is potentially an incredible year for free agent small forwards: LeBron, Melo, Iguodala, Deng, Gay, Granger...
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I wonder how fixated the Lakers are on 2014 cap space. It's going to be difficult for them to upgrade the team in a Pau trade if they are dogmatic about not adding any contracts that run past that date.
I don't think it's going to be an important for LA. I can't see Kobe leaving in a year and half's time and I doubt the Lakers front office / ownership consider it a real possibility either.
They won't be willing to push Kobe aside to sign a different player either. They want Kobe to play his entire career there like Magic Johnson did. This isn't a Shaquille O'Neal type situation. This is a Magic Johnson type situation. Kobe isn't going anywhere.
Between Kobe and Dwight, they'll probably have $40 million tied up in those two alone. With other cap charges, they'll probably be up around $47-49 million so they'll have $8-12 million in cap space at most. And that is only if they cut their squad to the bare bones. Not enough upside there for LA.
I don't think cap space in 2014 has any importance in LA's decision making.
I was thinking their plan might be to get Kobe to take a discount, i.e. something along the lines of the KG deal, to bring the Kobe + Dwight total to something like $33 mil, opening up a max slot.
2014 is potentially an incredible year for free agent small forwards: LeBron, Melo, Iguodala, Deng, Gay, Granger...
I see 2 reasons why Kobe won't take a cut for a FA.
1) kobe will always see himself as the alpha dog and therefore see himself as deserving the biggest paycheck.
2) all of those names would outshine Kobe and he can't have that--especially if they were to win a title and Kobe would be back to hearing how he's owes yet another title win to riding someone else's coattails (like when he played with Shaq and to a lesser-extent Gasol)
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Bargs is a pretty weak player. He's a fairly inefficient scorer and takes about 4 three pointers a game even though he's been hitting about 30% of them over the last 2 years. He'd be considered a pretty decent rebounder if he was a point guard and isn't really known for his defense. And a Nash/Calderon back court would be quite a defensive liability..
When Bargs was playing with Bosh he was a pretty efficient scorer. Since Bosh left, he has had to uptick his shots and has way more defense on him and his efficiency has suffered because of it. You put him next to Dwight on a team with Kobe and he will go back to the 40% three point shooter and much closer to 50% overall. His defense will also greatly improve as he won't be playing out of position. Bargs is a better player than Jeff Green and would be a significantly better fit on L.A. and it really isn't close.
Calderon and Nash you couldn't really start, but they could certainly play a few minutes here and there together. Heck last game Boston started 6'2" Terry and 6'1" Rondo, not exactly a towering back court.
Bargs isn't really an efficient scorer and never really was. He's in his 7th season and he's only been over 40% on threes once. He's never come close to 50% overall, in fact he's only been over 45% once. I don't share your high hopes for any major defensive improvements. And the problem with Nash and Calderon on defense is their defense, not their size.
His TS% was over 55% twice. His last two years with Bosh. That is plenty efficient for a big guy that shoots as many outside shots as he does.
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Bargnani is a very efficient when he has someone who can help create shots for him. When asked to create his shots for himself, his scoring efficiency is mediocre to sub-par.
In LA, alongside Nash + Dwight + Kobe, Bargnani would have lots of efficient scoring opportunities due to the attention they draw. He'd probably have a 17 points per 36 on around a 57-58% TS%.
I don't like Calderon playing off the ball in a two guard role alongside Nash. Calderon would just be a spot up shooter offensively and a defensive liability on the other end at that position. A Jodie Meeks is the superior player in that role. Meeks' defense is better and he is more aggressive looking for his shot attempts.
Jose Calderon needs the ball in his hands and to run the offense to get that extra offensive value. He can't do that while playing alongside Steve Nash in the same backcourt. I think you can play a scorer like Barbosa (or even a midget like Aaron Brooks) alongside Calderon in the backcourt but not another playmaker / floor general type PG. Especially not someone who needs the ball as much as Nash. Not a good fit.
Nash is only a 28-30mpg a player at this point so Calderon will have around 20 minutes a game backing up Nash. In terms of bench players, there is no position / role that is more important to LA than it's backup PG due to (1) Nash's lack of minutes (2) D'Antoni's offense. Calderon would be a very valuable substitute for LA. And his value would grow next year and the year after as Nash continues to age.
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I actually think the deal that makes the most sense for the Lakers if its with Toronto, is more like
Gasol and Blake
for
Bargnani, Calderon, and Fields
Get the stretch 4 that they need to play next to Howard. Get the defensive/3 point shooting wing, who has thrived in a D'Antoni system before, and get the Nash backup/insurance in Calderon.
If they are determined to try to save this season, to convince Howard to stay, it would be hard to do too much better than that.
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The Cs trade for Gasol and his outsized contract if they want to go all in on the last two years of KG's career. IF the Lakers would bite on Green, Lee and Bass for Gasol and Clark, and the Cs then sign a decent buyout vet to fill out the back of the rotation, they'd have a punchers' chance at the Finals again.
I don't see Bargnani and a half year rental of Calderon as much value for Gasol. At least with the Cs package you get three young athletic guys who can either take a role on the Lakers or be moved in the summer for better fitting pieces.
The way Pekovic is playing for the Wolves, they'd be crazy to move him for the aging, expensive Gasol. Atlanta is not trading Smith or Horford for him. Houston doesn't have any big contracts to match money with the Lakers even if they wanted Gasol still.
Bargnani is a better player by himself than Green, Lee, or Bass and he is a much better fit in the Lakers system. He is also pretty young and his contract isn't much different than Green's. Nash is hurt right now and will probably miss more time. Calderon is a pretty good backup and I certainly think the Lakers would consider re-signing him in the off season, to be the back-up/part time starter. I also think in Dantoni's system, Calderon and Nash could play together at times, especially with the league's penchant for playing smaller. You don't take on less talent because it fits better, especially when you are giving up a player as good as Gasol still is. It is just silly. Green, Lee, Bass is a horrible trade for the Lakers, now if Boston started adding assets like Sullinger, Bradley, draft picks, then the Lakers may bite, of course then it isn't worth it for Boston.
Bargs is a pretty weak player. He's a fairly inefficient scorer and takes about 4 three pointers a game even though he's been hitting about 30% of them over the last 2 years. He'd be considered a pretty decent rebounder if he was a point guard and isn't really known for his defense. And a Nash/Calderon back court would be quite a defensive liability..
When Bargs was playing with Bosh he was a pretty efficient scorer. Since Bosh left, he has had to uptick his shots and has way more defense on him and his efficiency has suffered because of it. You put him next to Dwight on a team with Kobe and he will go back to the 40% three point shooter and much closer to 50% overall. His defense will also greatly improve as he won't be playing out of position. Bargs is a better player than Jeff Green and would be a significantly better fit on L.A. and it really isn't close.
Calderon and Nash you couldn't really start, but they could certainly play a few minutes here and there together. Heck last game Boston started 6'2" Terry and 6'1" Rondo, not exactly a towering back court.
Bargs isn't really an efficient scorer and never really was. He's in his 7th season and he's only been over 40% on threes once. He's never come close to 50% overall, in fact he's only been over 45% once. I don't share your high hopes for any major defensive improvements. And the problem with Nash and Calderon on defense is their defense, not their size.
His TS% was over 55% twice. His last two years with Bosh. That is plenty efficient for a big guy that shoots as many outside shots as he does.
A TS% of 55% would put him just outside the top 20 this year. For power forwards, that is. And saying "that is plenty efficient for a big guy that shoots as many outside shots as he does" is like saying "that's plenty of rebounds for someone who doesn't like to jump". You're either an efficient scorer or you aren't, and he isn't.
KG takes a ton of outside shots and his TS% has exceeded Barg's career high 7 of the last 9 years.
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LA should take Lowry instead of Calderon. The deal makes a lot more sense for LA then.
Lowry can play two guard minutes alongside Nash. Very aggressive player offensively and defensively. They can work together as a two PG backcourt.
Calderon is playing very well for Toronto at the moment. Has led their recent win streak. It's not like Lowry is that good a player. I think that is doable.
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LA should take Lowry instead of Calderon. The deal makes a lot more sense for LA then.
Lowry can play two guard minutes alongside Nash. Very aggressive player offensively and defensively. They can work together as a two PG backcourt.
Calderon is playing very well for Toronto at the moment. Has led their recent win streak. It's not like Lowry is that good a player. I think that is doable.
I am sure LA would like that, but it would probably be a non starter for Toronto.
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LA should take Lowry instead of Calderon. The deal makes a lot more sense for LA then.
Lowry can play two guard minutes alongside Nash. Very aggressive player offensively and defensively. They can work together as a two PG backcourt.
Calderon is playing very well for Toronto at the moment. Has led their recent win streak. It's not like Lowry is that good a player. I think that is doable.
I am sure LA would like that, but it would probably be a non starter for Toronto.
Yeah, Lowry's the reason they're looking to move Jose.
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LA should take Lowry instead of Calderon. The deal makes a lot more sense for LA then.
Lowry can play two guard minutes alongside Nash. Very aggressive player offensively and defensively. They can work together as a two PG backcourt.
Calderon is playing very well for Toronto at the moment. Has led their recent win streak. It's not like Lowry is that good a player. I think that is doable.
I am sure LA would like that, but it would probably be a non starter for Toronto.
If they are serious about getting Pau Gasol, I think this is doable for Toronto.
It's not like Lowry is that much better than Calderon. It's a loss for them but it's not a huge one. They can live with that to get Pau Gasol.
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LA should take Lowry instead of Calderon. The deal makes a lot more sense for LA then.
Lowry can play two guard minutes alongside Nash. Very aggressive player offensively and defensively. They can work together as a two PG backcourt.
Calderon is playing very well for Toronto at the moment. Has led their recent win streak. It's not like Lowry is that good a player. I think that is doable.
I am sure LA would like that, but it would probably be a non starter for Toronto.
If they are serious about getting Pau Gasol, I think this is doable for Toronto.
It's not like Lowry is that much better than Calderon. It's a loss for them but it's not a huge one. They can live with that to get Pau Gasol.
Lowry is significantly better than Calderon. They won't give up Lowry and Bargnani for Gasol. Just won't happen.
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LA should take Lowry instead of Calderon. The deal makes a lot more sense for LA then.
Lowry can play two guard minutes alongside Nash. Very aggressive player offensively and defensively. They can work together as a two PG backcourt.
Calderon is playing very well for Toronto at the moment. Has led their recent win streak. It's not like Lowry is that good a player. I think that is doable.
I am sure LA would like that, but it would probably be a non starter for Toronto.
If they are serious about getting Pau Gasol, I think this is doable for Toronto.
It's not like Lowry is that much better than Calderon. It's a loss for them but it's not a huge one. They can live with that to get Pau Gasol.
Lowry is significantly better than Calderon. They won't give up Lowry and Bargnani for Gasol. Just won't happen.
Yeah, first of all, I don't think they are that desperate for Gasol. They are interested in bringing him at the right price, but at the moment, Lowry is the best player on their roster, and other than their rookie center, their best asset moving forward, and they gave up a lottery pick to get him.
The only reason Toronto is even in the discussion is that they have pieces that fit what LA wants, who they are ready to move on from. Once LA starts asking for assets they want to hang on to, like Lowry, then they will just say "thanks, but no thanks".
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
Right, but what is the difference between having Pau Gasol + Kyle Lowry and having Pau Gasol + Jose Calderon?
For Toronto. Where are they with each combination? Where will they be in the standings? What are their playoff chances? Is there really that much of a difference between where they will be post trade with Lowry vs Calderon to make it a deal breaker?
To me, it looks a very similar type of team overall with Lowry or Calderon.
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
Right, but what is the difference between having Pau Gasol + Kyle Lowry and having Pau Gasol + Jose Calderon?
For Toronto. Where are they with each combination? Where will they be in the standings? What are their playoff chances? Is there really that much of a difference between where they will be post trade with Lowry vs Calderon to make it a deal breaker?
To me, it looks a very similar type of team overall with Lowry or Calderon.
The difference is you have a decently valuable asset going into next year if you still have Lowry. If you have Calderon, you don't.
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
Right, but what is the difference between having Pau Gasol + Kyle Lowry and having Pau Gasol + Jose Calderon?
For Toronto. Where are they with each combination? Where will they be in the standings? What are their playoff chances? Is there really that much of a difference between where they will be post trade with Lowry vs Calderon to make it a deal breaker?
To me, it looks a very similar type of team overall with Lowry or Calderon.
Honestly? The difference is you have a decently valuable asset going into next year if you still have Lowry. If you have Calderon, you don't.
So the quality of the team is similar but the quality of the trade assets left is too much of a drop-off, is that right? Is that what you mean.
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
Right, but what is the difference between having Pau Gasol + Kyle Lowry and having Pau Gasol + Jose Calderon?
For Toronto. Where are they with each combination? Where will they be in the standings? What are their playoff chances? Is there really that much of a difference between where they will be post trade with Lowry vs Calderon to make it a deal breaker?
To me, it looks a very similar type of team overall with Lowry or Calderon.
Honestly? The difference is you have a decently valuable asset going into next year if you still have Lowry. If you have Calderon, you don't.
So the quality of the team is similar but the quality of the trade assets left is too much of a drop-off, is that right? Is that what you mean.
yes, exactly.
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Yeah Calderon's expiring right? Meanwhile Lowry is signed longer term at a solid price.
Giving up Lowry in a move for Gasol is very short term thinking, when Raptors need to be concerned about the long term. If they're dumping Bargs (who they want move on from) and Calderon (expiring) it makes sense.
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
Right, but what is the difference between having Pau Gasol + Kyle Lowry and having Pau Gasol + Jose Calderon?
For Toronto. Where are they with each combination? Where will they be in the standings? What are their playoff chances? Is there really that much of a difference between where they will be post trade with Lowry vs Calderon to make it a deal breaker?
To me, it looks a very similar type of team overall with Lowry or Calderon.
Honestly? The difference is you have a decently valuable asset going into next year if you still have Lowry. If you have Calderon, you don't.
So the quality of the team is similar but the quality of the trade assets left is too much of a drop-off, is that right? Is that what you mean.
yes, exactly.
Okay. I understand. Yeah, okay, I can see that reason being a deal-breaker.
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I don't see why Lowry is so valuable. He is not the type of player you can build a team around. He is the third or fourth best player on a strong team. Calderon is a fourth best player on a top team kind of player too.
Lowry is a really good player, better than Calderon, but I don't see him being good enough for him to be a deal breaker if Toronto is serious about Pau Gasol. And if they are not serious about Pau Gasol, I do not understand why they are offering a Bargnani + Calderon package for him (which is a rumour / report I still do not fully believe - I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN just ran with someone else's rumour and reported as a fact).
Question - What changes dramatically about Toronto's future by giving Lowry + Bargnani instead of Calderon + Bargnani? Very little. It's pretty much the same level of team they are left with. Am I missing something here? Is there some major value I am not seeing?
It's not that Lowry is that valuable, it is that Calderon is even less valuable, and that Toronto doesn't have a whole lot of need of Gasol in the first place.
Lowry is a middle of the road starting PG, Calderon is a good backup, or would be a bottom tier starter at this point in his career. Lowry also has a more enticing contract, because he is signed, but not guaranteed at a relatively small number next year, while Calderon is gone at the end of the year.
If Toronto were a team that just needed Gasol to get over the hump and being a contender, I am with you, they would give up Lowry no problem. But they are not. That is why I think their offer would be basically take it or leave it.
Right, but what is the difference between having Pau Gasol + Kyle Lowry and having Pau Gasol + Jose Calderon?
For Toronto. Where are they with each combination? Where will they be in the standings? What are their playoff chances? Is there really that much of a difference between where they will be post trade with Lowry vs Calderon to make it a deal breaker?
To me, it looks a very similar type of team overall with Lowry or Calderon.
Honestly? The difference is you have a decently valuable asset going into next year if you still have Lowry. If you have Calderon, you don't.
So the quality of the team is similar but the quality of the trade assets left is too much of a drop-off, is that right? Is that what you mean.
yes, exactly.
Okay. I understand. Yeah, okay, I can see that reason being a deal-breaker.
And I don't think it would be a dealbreaker for a team like say, Minnesota, who have legitimate playoff aspirations. But Toronto...this is just shuffling the cards at this point.
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Any move for Pau Gasol is a short term move and against the Raptors long term interests.
There is no long term plan there. There never has been. Not since Bosh left. Heck, not even while Bosh was there. Not since Bryan Colangelo arrived. All Colangelo has ever done is shuffle the cards since 2007. TJ Ford. Jermaine O'Neal. Shawn Marion. Hedo Turkoglu.
I still do not believe it'll matter. Lowry or Calderon. I do understand where Chris is coming from and I do consider that a legitimate reason (future trade assets) not do the deal but I do not believe Toronto is thinking like that. I see no long term plan in place there. Nor do I see any long term benefits from acquiring Pau Gasol regardless of which trade package is selected. It's a here and now trade. That's where the focus is.
It's just a GM treading water and deflecting blame away from himself ... like Bryan Colangelo has continually done for the last 5 years in Toronto.
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Any move for Pau Gasol is a short term move and against the Raptors long term interests.
There is no long term plan there. There never has been. Not since Bosh left. Heck, not even while Bosh was there. Not since Bryan Colangelo arrived. All Colangelo has ever done is shuffle the cards since 2007. TJ Ford. Jermaine O'Neal. Shawn Marion. Hedo Turkoglu.
I still do not believe it'll matter. Lowry or Calderon. I do understand where Chris is coming from and I do consider that a legitimate reason (future trade assets) not do the deal but I do not believe Toronto is thinking like that. I see no long term plan in place there. Nor do I see any long term benefits from acquiring Pau Gasol regardless of which trade package is selected. It's a here and now trade. That's where the focus is.
It's just a GM treading water and deflecting blame away from himself ... like Bryan Colangelo has continually done for the last 5 years in Toronto.
I agree. There is absolutely no good reason for Toronto to want Gasol at his age, and they shouldn't be trying to get rid of Bargniani either, but it all fits into how they operate. Calderon however would make sense to deal this year.
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Why don't we try to trade Green and something for Bargnani and Pietrus?
Because we don't need another big man who is a mediocre rebounder, doesn't block shots, and likes to shoot jumpers?
I think mediocre rebounder is something of an understatement.
My point was more in response to the comments that a package around Bargnani for LA was so much better than Green, Lee, Bass for Gasol.
Bargnani would probably be an upgrade over Green (I hate to say) especially if we got Pietrus to be the new back up 3. As compared to Gasol though, Gasol is more complete than Bargnani but if Gasol is gimpy, wouldn't we be better off with the younger, kind of soft big man than giving up 2 more good players (Bass and Lee) to get a more expensive, possibly serially injured, older, more expensive, also kind of soft, but more versitile player?
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I like Gasol, and think he'd be a good fit in Boston, but I think that Boston can get what it needs—for much cheaper and younger—with Gortat.
I like Gasol, but agree with you; I prefer Gortat.
A fan at "Bright Side of the Sun" proposed this:
I keep thinking the Celtics trade is the best out there
Out: Gortat, Wesley+2nd rounder
In: Bradley, Sullinger, Fab Melo and Courtney Lee
Boston do it for two reasons
-They finally get a starting caliber center that can play defense and will excel in their basketball scheme.
-Get rid of Courtney Lee 4 year contract.
I say: Bradley, Green, Fab for Gortat and Toxic Beasley.
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I like Gasol, and think he'd be a good fit in Boston, but I think that Boston can get what it needs—for much cheaper and younger—with Gortat.
I like Gasol, but agree with you; I prefer Gortat.
A fan at "Bright Side of the Sun" proposed this:
I keep thinking the Celtics trade is the best out there
Out: Gortat, Wesley+2nd rounder
In: Bradley, Sullinger, Fab Melo and Courtney Lee
Boston do it for two reasons
-They finally get a starting caliber center that can play defense and will excel in their basketball scheme.
-Get rid of Courtney Lee 4 year contract.
I say: Bradley, Green, Fab for Gortat and Toxic Beasley.
Wouldn't touch Beasley with a ten foot pole...
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Talent wise, it seems that Sota & Toronto's packages are better, but, do they fit with what the Lakers have already? Also, do they fit D'Antoni's system?
Toronto's package in that sense does fit the system, but, Calderon would be redundant behind Nash & Blake, so it just leaves them with Bargani...
Why is this a problem?
Apparently D'Antoni wants a 7 footer who can step out and shoot threes while having a 'passible' post game and getting the occsional rebound - a Rashard Lewis type.
Bargani is exactly that type of player.
Nash is currently injured and is about 400 years old. Blake is absolute garbage - he's so bad that even on our roster he wouldn't break the PG rotation...and we only have one PG!
If the Lakers get Calderon they get a guy who is more or less a clone of Nash. Excellent playmaker, outstanding outside shooter. When Nash steps out Calderon could come in and take over seamlessly. Then Blake either gets cut, traded or benched. Having a backup as good as Calderon would allow the Lakers to keep Nash's minutes down around 24 per game so they can keep him fresh for the playoffs, and Calderon can then still get a solie 24 - 30 minutes a night (he's big enough to spend some time at SG too).
Now look at the trade we would supposedly offer them. Courtney Lee is mediocre - he defends ok when he feels like it, he's shot horribly all season and he doesn't offer much else outside of defense and shooting. He might fit "OK" for the lakers, but certainly not a game changer.
Bass is a big who has no inside game, rebounds at a mediocre rate and no three point range. Hell if I needed my big man to take a three I would trust Gasol (or even KG) over Bass any day of the week. Bass makes zero sense for LA based on how he played last season, let alone his dissapointing play so far this season.
Green would be much better suited to what the Lakers want at PF (an athletic big who can stretch the floor) and he'd probably work well at PF with Dwight behind him...but then Dwight is horribly foul prone, and Green could not play spot minutes at center the way Gasol or Bargani could.
As a SF Green's defense varies from very good (as he played against Durant in the last OKC game) to horrendous (as he's played during most other occasions). Which version you get seems to depend on who he plays against - when he plays with emotion he plays great, but most of the time it's like he's just going through the motions.
I just don