CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ctrey on December 18, 2012, 10:41:36 PM
-
We are twenty four games in and I am not seeing a thing that gives me hope that there will be anything but a first round playoff exit. Being a mediocre team in the NBA is the worst place to be. Just ask the Houston Rockets.
For starters, Jason Terry has been awful. Has not fit in at all here. Frankly another questionable signing by Danny Ainge. For a guy who drafts so well, his free agent signings leave much to be desired.
Can Jeff Green be made to wear a ski mask when he plays? Cause he is robbing the Celtics of nine million dollars this year. His line tonight: one for six for three points, one rebound and two steals. Can someone please tell me how I can suck at my job so much yet get paid so well? My Christmas will be perfect.
Look everybody, another small forward made Paul Pierce look like he played defense in a rocking chair. Deng murdered him. Pierce looks like he is 45, not 35. Not his fault. Sometimes athletes just drop off a cliff age wise.
I am a passionate fan and will never stop rooting for my Celtics but I must admit my outlook as just crashed from training camp. If you told me that this team would be 12 and 12 a week before Christmas and only Bradley would be hurt I would have laughed you out of the room. Now they are 12 and 12 and I am not laughing one bit.
-
Jeff Green has actually been playing pretty well up until this game.
you cant expect any NBA player to make a huge impact playing 10 minutes
Jason terry has been underutilized. he isnt Ray allen running of screens. he is a player who excels with the ball in his hands running pick & rolls...but the C's are intent on only Rondo running the pick & roll.
I'm still interested to see what the team looks like with Bradley back before jumping ship...I know a million people are going to jump on me and say "hes not a difference maker!" but based on how he helped turn the team around last year I believe he possibly can be. his Defense/Effort had an extreme effect on this team and how they played.
-
I agree 100% with your post. I think it is time that Danny and Doc start earning their big bucks and find some new ways to utilize the talent they have, and find a way to turn that talent into what we need. This team isn't gelling together at all right now.
A lot of talent on the team right now, but not a lot of inspiring play. Our team leaders need to lead and right the ship.
-
All is not lost. KG sits we lose. He needs Help from a younger center who can play as many minutes as doc can throw at him, just like spliter does for TIm Duncan.
We need a SPLITTER or ASIK , quality Center to help and everybody else will pick up.
Until Danny trades who ever , for a CENTER, this team will stay average at best.
We have lots of GOOD players , but no energy young stars , except Rondo , AB and Sully and Joseph.
Can't play ball without some really good big men.
-
T/S i wouldnt throw a lot of blame on Pierce he wasnt too bad out there tonight Green nd Terry tho smh.........
-
Pierce played really well tonight. He didn't take over, but he was efficient and didn't dominate the flow of the offense. The team has no big man depth after kg
-
I'm worried. All reports were that kg and pierce came in in good shape. The only thing we can hope for is AB at the moment. I think he will really help, but the other role players have to play up to expectations.
The schedule is gonna get tougher.
-
I'm not.
I'm more worried if we are playing like this in Apr or May of next yr. However, I expect the team to right itself sooner than later.
-
I don't think Doc has a clue what to do.
-
I'm not.
I'm more worried if we are playing like this in Apr or May of next yr. However, I expect the team to right itself sooner than later.
Exactly.
I'm honestly surprised by people who expected this team to be playing as a cohesive unit this early in the season.
This is an almost entirely new team, with different roles and new priorities.
We also haven't even got one of our key players back yet, who will add a very important dimension to this lineup, and solidify others' roles.
Before this season even started I had it in my mind to not expect too much until after the break, but that we should be tightened up appropriately by April.
There's just a bit too much over-expectation going on here, and folks need to take a deep breath and a step back from the edge.
There's a long way to go, and a lot to be done ... let's give the competent coach who brought us the O'Brien the benefit of the doubt.
Believe it or not we're getting there, and even tonight's game had some positive moments.
We've been here many times before, folks, and the mortar is hardening.
-
I'm not.
I'm more worried if we are playing like this in Apr or May of next yr. However, I expect the team to right itself sooner than later.
Exactly.
I'm honestly surprised by people who expected this team to be playing as a cohesive unit this early in the season.
This is an almost entirely new team, with different roles and new priorities.
We also haven't even got one of our key players back yet, who will add a very important dimension to this lineup, and solidify others' roles.
Before this season even started I had it in my mind to not expect too much until after the break, but that we should be tightened up appropriately by April.
There's just a bit too much over-expectation going on here, and folks need to take a deep breath and a step back from the edge.
There's a long way to go, and a lot to be done ... let's give the competent coach who brought us the O'Brien the benefit of the doubt.
Believe it or not we're getting there, and even tonight's game had some positive moments.
We've been here many times before, folks, and the mortar is hardening.
I appreciate your faith.
But the "they have a bunch of new guys, it's going to take time!" argument is getting tired.
Plenty of other teams made very serious changes to their rosters, including changing out key players.
The Celtics have been playing with 4 of the same players in the starting lineup as last year, and the same three core guys -- Rondo, Pierce, Garnett. Jeff Green is not an entirely new piece, nor is Chris Wilcox. Bass should know his role.
Slotting Courtney Lee into Avery Bradley's role until Bradley returned and having the starting 5 operate in pretty much exactly the same way should not have been that difficult.
Jason Terry is way too talented for it to be so difficult to find a role for him. Guys like Jamal Crawford, Carl Landry, OJ Mayo -- all quick-offense types, like Terry, who settled into their new surroundings pretty much immediately.
So talking about this team like it's a bunch of new guys who have never seen each other before is overstating things.
Other teams with new guys playing major roles have already figured out how to put together 30-40 minutes of solid basketball more nights than not. It's not taking them the majority of the season to do it.
-
I'm not.
I'm more worried if we are playing like this in Apr or May of next yr. However, I expect the team to right itself sooner than later.
Exactly.
I'm honestly surprised by people who expected this team to be playing as a cohesive unit this early in the season.
This is an almost entirely new team, with different roles and new priorities.
We also haven't even got one of our key players back yet, who will add a very important dimension to this lineup, and solidify others' roles.
Before this season even started I had it in my mind to not expect too much until after the break, but that we should be tightened up appropriately by April.
There's just a bit too much over-expectation going on here, and folks need to take a deep breath and a step back from the edge.
There's a long way to go, and a lot to be done ... let's give the competent coach who brought us the O'Brien the benefit of the doubt.
Believe it or not we're getting there, and even tonight's game had some positive moments.
We've been here many times before, folks, and the mortar is hardening.
I appreciate your faith.
But the "they have a bunch of new guys, it's going to take time!" argument is getting tired.
Plenty of other teams made very serious changes to their rosters, including changing out key players.
The Celtics have been playing with 4 of the same players in the starting lineup as last year, and the same three core guys -- Rondo, Pierce, Garnett. Jeff Green is not an entirely new piece, nor is Chris Wilcox. Bass should know his role.
Slotting Courtney Lee into Avery Bradley's role until Bradley returned and having the starting 5 operate in pretty much exactly the same way should not have been that difficult.
Jason Terry is way too talented for it to be so difficult to find a role for him. Guys like Jamal Crawford, Carl Landry, OJ Mayo -- all quick-offense types, like Terry, who settled into their new surroundings pretty much immediately.
So talking about this team like it's a bunch of new guys who have never seen each other before is overstating things.
Other teams with new guys playing major roles have already figured out how to put together 30-40 minutes of solid basketball more nights than not. It's not taking them the majority of the season to do it.
Actually, it's not faith, it'a just common sense.
Jeff played very little before, with a largely different lineup and rotation ... same with Chris. Bass, with the new players, has a different role, but I agree that he's been a bit disapponting as yet.
The loss of Bradley, and in turn his re-insertion into the lineup, did and will make a huge impact on solidifying the rotation and expected roles of the new guys.
There are other teams in the NBA who have added new players, certainly, but few that have changed things up as drastically and are playing with fluidity and chemistry.
"It takes time" only gets old if you have some unrealistic expectations, cuz this game ain't easy, and it will take more time, especially with Avery's return.
Twenty-four games is very little time in NBA terms, and I think things will look much differently at the halfway point.
I guess we'll find out one way or another, but my glass is still half-full at this point.
-
Pierce actually looked really lively tonight, maybe as lively as he's look all season. That lefthanded layup when he caught a bounce pass in the paint and exploded over Noah was like his younger days. The Celtics may even have scored more had he taken more than 3 shots in the second half.
I don't get this team. When Pierce is struggling, sometimes he gets all the shots he wants. When he's really fresh and lively like he was tonight, he's hardly involved. It's not like this team was rolling or has an incredible wealth of options. I wish this team could be like others and sometimes just ride the freaking hot hand. They used to do that a lot.
-
What really concerns me is the fact we are going to end up being a 5,6,7 or 8 seed. The dreaded middle of the road basketball team. A team stuck in the middle. Never bad enough to get a top 3 pick in the draft to turn things around, not good enough to win.
Does anyone here really think that we can make such great strides and improvements that this team can win a title this year? I know, I know, defenders of this team will say: "Look at last year, they were awful and then nearly made it." That is correct. You know what is also correct: They were awful then nearly made it. Nearly. Miami got the ring, not Boston. End of story.
There is a part of me that says we would have been better off finishing with a worse record and getting a higher draft pick in a very deep draft. Heaven knows Fab Melo looks light years away from helping. Think about it. We are paper mache thin up front and this kid is still in the D league. Averaging 7 points and 5 boards in 22 minutes. Wowzah. Great pick there.
I will never give up. I will always cheer and hope for the best. Sometimes however you have to think big picture. The teams ahead of us, particularly the Knicks and Heat play a style that we are awful at defending: Up and down with lots of shooters. Frankly we are just not all that great defensively period these days. I wonder if letting Green and Sullinger start is not a bad idea. Trading Bass for some help. I know the knee jerk reaction is to look for inside help. I tend to think we need go to scoring more. This whole Tyreke Evans kerfuffle intrigues me. I would like to see what he would be like in a better culture and alongside Rondo.
Look, I may be wrong, but I doubt it. I hope we get better. I just do not see the seeds of it so far at all. Sorry.
-
Frankly we are just not all that great defensively period these days. I wonder if letting Green and Sullinger start is not a bad idea.
I don't follow this. If the goal is to improve defensively, moving Green and Sullinger into the starting lineup if it comes at the expense of Pierce and Bass will make it worse. If the goal is to improve offensively, the same deal. Green's been better than his awful start, although he's tailed off lately but not to the point where playing him more than Pierce will make this team better. Playing a guy who scores less efficiently, creates less for his teammates and plays worse defense is not a recipe for team improvement.
-
I'm not worried at all. This season is going exactly like I expected it. We are playing .500 ball. Shouldn't be a surprise.
Somehow after beating the mighty Horford-less Hawks and sneaking by the 8th seed 76ers in 7 games some fans seemed to forget that we struggled for most of last season. We were below .500 until KG flipped a switch. We lost our 4th best player and replaced him with a handful of mediocre free agents. I'm not on board with the idea that quantity equals quality in this league. It's great that we have "depth", but I'd gladly take one star player playing 40 minutes over 4 average players splitting minutes on the same position.
All of this is expected. I think it was slightly naive to assume this team was World Beaters. We still have some issues with this roster. I refuse to panic until after the trade deadline. Let's see what we do when Bradley comes back... clearly we aren't going to have 4 shooting guards splitting 50 minutes in the playoffs. No sense in that. I fully expect a trade.
That said, I fully expected a trade last deadline as well... and Ainge apparently tried hard to trade both Ray and Pierce and both deals fell apart. That didn't turn out totally dreadful... we had an improbable playoff run and made the ECF. So you can't panic either way.
-
I'm not worried at all. This season is going exactly like I expected it. We are playing .500 ball. Shouldn't be a surprise.
Somehow after beating the mighty Horford-less Hawks and sneaking by the 8th seed 76ers in 7 games some fans seemed to forget that we struggled for most of last season. We were below .500 until KG flipped a switch. We lost our 4th best player and replaced him with a handful of mediocre free agents. I'm not on board with the idea that quantity equals quality in this league. It's great that we have "depth", but I'd gladly take one star player playing 40 minutes over 4 average players splitting minutes on the same position.
All of this is expected. I think it was slightly naive to assume this team was World Beaters. We still have some issues with this roster. I refuse to panic until after the trade deadline. Let's see what we do when Bradley comes back... clearly we aren't going to have 4 shooting guards splitting 50 minutes in the playoffs. No sense in that. I fully expect a trade.
That said, I fully expected a trade last deadline as well... and Ainge apparently tried hard to trade both Ray and Pierce and both deals fell apart. That didn't turn out totally dreadful... we had an improbable playoff run and made the ECF. So you can't panic either way.
Even ignoring the playoffs, where the Celtics played pretty darn good basketball even if their opponents were banged up, the starting 5 from the second half of last season was pretty great.
With Rondo - Bradley - Pierce - Bass - Garnett starting last season, the Celtics were very efficient on both ends, and played close to .700 ball.
We started the season with basically the same starting five, only with Courtney Lee in Bradley's role (which shouldn't have been a stretch). It's ridiculous to suggest that expecting the team to build on the success they had in the second half of last year was "naive."
Though I will admit, with the way they've been playing, I'm starting to wonder if the improvement in the second half of last year was just because other teams were packing it in for the playoffs or something . . . still, I think there was ample evidence that this basic group could and would succeed. They just haven't even come close to playing like the team last year.
I guess there really was something to all the talk of intangibles and great chemistry they had last year with guys like Pietrus, Dooling, and Stiemsma. Something that transcended the box score. I don't know how else to explain it.
-
We'll be fine.
This team has a habit of playing poorly in long stretches.
They just know they can turn it on come playoff time. We just have to get the new guys acclimated to the system by then.
Avery will be a boost for our perimeter defense and his defense is infectious to the team. Wouldn't be surprised to see us go on a nice run when he's back and everyone's clicking.
I'm still worried about Green. He's just got a problem with switching it on when we need it. He'll beat up on scrubs and 2nd unit small forwards but I want to see him do more on the defensive end and attack the basket.
If we move Bass and Lee, I just hope we get equal value in return. At this stage I'm hoping we can get Gortat or Millsap without giving up both Bradley and Sully.
Keeping Bradley would be huge for our perimeter defense come playoff time.
-
We are twenty four games in and I am not seeing a thing that gives me hope that there will be anything but a first round playoff exit. Being a mediocre team in the NBA is the worst place to be. Just ask the Houston Rockets.
Just wanted to quote this like the other 1000 posts similar to it last year.
-
We are twenty four games in and I am not seeing a thing that gives me hope that there will be anything but a first round playoff exit. Being a mediocre team in the NBA is the worst place to be. Just ask the Houston Rockets.
Just wanted to quote this like the other 1000 posts similar to it last year.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
It's like groundhog day.
We are 24 games into an 82 game season. We've gotten better. We have so much room ro improve further.
Look how far Green has come in 10 games. Look at Wilcox's production. Lee can only get better. Bradley is coming back. We have the pieces to make a very positive trade without losing depth.
So annoying reading the same thing every year lol.
-
I think we could be more dangerous in playoffs than regular season. Last year we were, I hope it's just an old team waiting until it counts.
-
I hoped this team was a playoff team as built this year. I'm beginning to have doubts.
I can't help but think Danny is burning up the phone and mid night oil trying to figure this thing out.
We just can't win with KG sitting on the bench. I was very worried this would be the problem early on .
Lack of a young star center who can play big minutes night in and night out is killing us. Its got DOc trying to play all kinds of screwed up rotations., to make up for lack of a true center , tons of small guys and no defensive CENTER to anchor the team . Its a losing situtation.
Ab is only going to slow our spiral to the bottom , by the time he plays , the situation is going to be dire.
THis team is low energy, too small and can't stop any dribble penetration into the paint when KG sits.
It may take a TRADE just to stop the decline and then it might be too late for this year . >:(
Wow ...who thought up this small ball should be fired and dumped in the ocean.
-
We are twenty four games in and I am not seeing a thing that gives me hope that there will be anything but a first round playoff exit. Being a mediocre team in the NBA is the worst place to be. Just ask the Houston Rockets.
For starters, Jason Terry has been awful. Has not fit in at all here. Frankly another questionable signing by Danny Ainge. For a guy who drafts so well, his free agent signings leave much to be desired.
Can Jeff Green be made to wear a ski mask when he plays? Cause he is robbing the Celtics of nine million dollars this year. His line tonight: one for six for three points, one rebound and two steals. Can someone please tell me how I can suck at my job so much yet get paid so well? My Christmas will be perfect.
Look everybody, another small forward made Paul Pierce look like he played defense in a rocking chair. Deng murdered him. Pierce looks like he is 45, not 35. Not his fault. Sometimes athletes just drop off a cliff age wise.
I am a passionate fan and will never stop rooting for my Celtics but I must admit my outlook as just crashed from training camp. If you told me that this team would be 12 and 12 a week before Christmas and only Bradley would be hurt I would have laughed you out of the room. Now they are 12 and 12 and I am not laughing one bit.
Over react much?
How is Terry not fitting in? He is shooting 45% from the field and hitting 38% from behind the three line. He is averaging 11 points a game, 5 below his career average, but he is also taking 5 less shots per game. There really isnt much difference in his play other than he isnt getting as many shots as he is used to. Defense he could use some help for sure but thats not what he was brought here to do.
Green has shown glimpses of being a good player but he is inconsistent. He is not a bench guy unfortunately and needs a lot of minutes to make himself productive. This is why I think the Perk trade was poor because Green might be a great starter on a lot of teams but as a back up playing 15 minutes a game his game is just non existent.
And Deng is a good defender. He has always defended Pierce well. But I mean did Pierce even play all that bad? I mena in 31 minutes of play he was 6 for 10 from the field and 2 of 3 from three point range with ZERO turnovers. That really isnt much to complain about.
Relax. Wait til after the all star break and asses this team, not when we've played a measily meaningless 24 games.
-
highly disappointed in this team. i didn't expect 24-0 but to be .500 at this point is pathetic
-
well, if Danny is going to tweak the lineup,
he better do it by January, because this team
has enough on-court chemistry problems.
Doc is as clueless as the rest of them
concerning what is the rotation.
-
i hope coach mchale can help us by trading asik for collins. ;D this team stinks just like the coach.
-
We were 23-21 after 44 games last year. CALM DOWN.
-
We were 23-21 after 44 games last year. CALM DOWN.
The knicks sixers and nets all sucked last year too
-
Only 58 more games to go in the 82 game pre-season. We'll be in the mix once the real season starts.
-
not a bit more worried now then before the bulls game....sorry
-
This is what I posted a couple of weeks ago as part of a somewhat similar thread:
I am actually concerned. Both Pierce and KG look old to me so far this year and I feel they are the key to the team. Yeah, it's early, yeah, we get Bradley back soon, yeah, a trade for some beef would help, so I recognize a lot can still happen.
With PP and KG, they are both playing well and it is not that they have fallen off a cliff or anyting but I am seeing enough shadows of father time to be concerned.
With Pierce for example it is turnovers. It seems there are just more plays that end up with a sloppy pass where he just can't make the play he wants to. With KG, I see it with his one on one defense. He is really limited side to side. Both guys are warriors and if healthy will likely elevate some for the playoffs so I am not concerned to the point of blow it up but I am concerned.
I go based more on what I see on the court than stats or what happened last year. There is going to come a time when KG and PP will go to "flip the switch" and it just isn't going to be there. I remain concerned.
-
All is not lost. KG sits we lose. He needs Help from a younger center who can play as many minutes as doc can throw at him, just like spliter does for TIm Duncan.
We need a SPLITTER or ASIK , quality Center to help and everybody else will pick up.
Until Danny trades who ever , for a CENTER, this team will stay average at best.
We have lots of GOOD players , but no energy young stars , except Rondo , AB and Sully and Joseph.
Can't play ball without some really good big men.
signed,
The Miami Heat
-
I am not worried for a few reasons.
1) it's December
2) KG is playing like a DPY
3) Rondo is hitting jump shots
Be patient, building chemistry takes time & most of our rotation guys are new. The defense is starting to come along. Lee and Green have shown flashes, but still haven't quite settled into a role. I still expect Fab Melo to fall out of the sky later this season just as Steimsma did last year. He's a better rim protector than anyone in all these lame trade threads.
The talent is there, the defensive system is there & so is the confidence. Guys like Pierce, KG, Rondo & Terry thrive in 7 game series. Right now, its the time of year to coast, ya'll should know that.
Sure, Miami is scary. But outside of them, we have as good of shot as anyone to go to the ECF.
-
I am not worried for a few reasons.
1) it's December
2) KG is playing like a DPY
3) Rondo is hitting jump shots
Be patient, building chemistry takes time & most of our rotation guys are new. The defense is starting to come along. Lee and Green have shown flashes, but still haven't quite settled into a role. I still expect Fab Melo to fall out of the sky later this season just as Steimsma did last year. He's a better rim protector than anyone in all these lame trade threads.
The talent is there, the defensive system is there & so is the confidence. Guys like Pierce, KG, Rondo & Terry thrive in 7 game series. Right now, its the time of year to coast, ya'll should know that.
Sure, Miami is scary. But outside of them, we have as good of shot as anyone to go to the ECF.
The 2010 lakers and 2012 Miami Heat disagree with your 7 game series claims.
I told everyone here the Knickerbockers would be good this year. well, well, what do we have here? right now, we would be destroyed by the heat or knicks in 4 straight. How long will it take for this team to awake from their COMATOSE state?
-
I still think the knicks will crumble.
-
I just looked at the schedule and I think an argument can be made that we could lose 8/9 of the next 10 games.
-
I just looked at the schedule and I think an argument can be made that we could lose 8/9 of the next 10 games.
Yeah, that's a tough stretch. 8 of the next 9 are against winning teams. 6 are on the road. The upcoming home game against the Bucks is a big game. On paper, that's one of the most winnable ones.
-
For starters, Jason Terry has been awful. Has not fit in at all here. Frankly another questionable signing by Danny Ainge. For a guy who drafts so well, his free agent signings leave much to be desired.
Terry has been our 4th best player after Rondo, KG and Pierce.
He's been consistently averaging double figures over the entire season, and outside of the above three guys he's the only player on our team who can make that claim.
Green WAS averaging double figures a game or two ago, but he has one though parts of the season where his average was about 6 PPG. He'll average 5 in one 5 game stretch and then 15 in another 5 game stretch.
Terry is certainly not our problem. Our problems are:
1. Bass - he's playing like he wants a one way ticket to the D league
2. Lee - he can't score to save his life, plays defense in spots and turns the ball over faster than a beached whale turns over sand.
3. Collins - he's totally useless
4. Green - whe's productive in spots, we need more consistency from him
5. Barbosa - who? He's been invisible for about 2 months now