CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: PhoSita on December 18, 2012, 10:33:30 PM
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Amid dissatisfaction with the team's performance, there's a lot of talk of trades. But let's take a look at this roster and how much flexibility Danny Ainge really has in terms of movable assets.
Rondo:
Unless another top player like Chris Paul becomes available on the trade market, it seems unlikely that Ainge will look to move Rondo. As it stands, Rondo's trade value has never been higher, but aside from a dollar-for-three-quarters kind of deal, it's hard to imagine Rondo getting moved.
Jason Terry:
Danny's first goal of the off-season was to woo Terry to come to Boston to win championships. Trading Jason Terry with less than half a season in Boston could have a serious chilling effect on future attempts to bring free agents to town. Not to mention that Terry is having one of his worst seasons and is already 35, meaning his trade value isn't high.
Paul Pierce:
Though Danny supposedly came close to trading Pierce last season, with KG locked up for a couple more seasons, it's hard to envision him trading Pierce. I think Pierce is basically slated to retire in green unless he and KG both request a trade.
KG:
From the sound of it, the only reason he chose to continue his career rather than retire was because he had the option of returning to Boston to play for Doc Rivers. I think he might actually have a no-trade clause. KG isn't going anywhere unless he requests it.
Avery Bradley:
Bradley has shown some good stuff, but we're talking about a month or two of regular rotation minutes followed by months of inactivity due to a couple of pretty serious injuries to his shoulders. He's going to have to play really well to re-establish his value, and a month and a half or so (from January to mid-February) probably won't be long enough.
Courtney Lee:
He's having an okay season if you ignore his outside shooting. But a huge part of his value in the past has been his outside shooting, so that's kind of a big deal. He's not drastically overpaid, but until he starts playing better his contract isn't really a "bargain," either. What you see is what you get with Courtney Lee, though it's probably safe to assume he'll find his three point stroke again eventually, and he's just entering his prime. He's far from worthless, but I don't see any teams falling over themselves to acquire him, either.
Brandon Bass:
Much like Lee, Bass is on a reasonable contract, but he's a role player at best, probably ideally suited to a back-up role. Hard to find a market for a player like that making $6 million a year, especially one who hasn't played particularly well so far this season.
Jared Sullinger:
He's shown some good stuff, but he hasn't exactly been consistent, and he's still a rookie. Trading him now would be selling really low. I'm sure some teams like what they've seen and regret somewhat their decision to pass on him in the draft, but he still hasn't proven that he's a sure thing to be more than a backup.
Jeff Green:
Still looks like one of the worst contracts given out this summer, despite the fact that he's had some good games in recent weeks. He just hasn't been consistent enough, and he's still completely disappearing at times. Perhaps by the All-Star break he will have strung together enough good performances to establish some trade value, but at the moment he'd pretty much be filler in any deal, considering how many years he's got left. Some teams might still hold out hope that he can be a top offensive option if given the chance with a starting job, but considering how much he's owed, it'd be a tough sell.
Chris Wilcox:
Worth more to the Celtics than he'd be to some other team in any deal.
Leandro Barbosa:
Some team might want him around the trade deadline for instant offense off the bench, but doubtful anybody gives up any real value for him. After all, there's a reason he wasn't signed until late October.
Jason Collins:
He's a waiver wire candidate for somebody around the trade deadline. Or a retiree before season's end.
Fab Melo:
He's a D-league project. Enough said.
Kris Joseph:
We'll see if he's even on the roster by the trade deadline. He could be waived to make room for some veteran castoffs from some other teams.
2013 1st Round Pick:
Right now it looks as though this is going to be a pick in the mid to late teens, possible the early twenties. In what is supposed to be a very weak draft, a pick like that probably won't be highly valued by possible trade partners.
Note that nearly all of the players currently on the roster are under contract for at least the next two seasons.
As underwhelming as the team has been, Danny might be locked into this group, for better or for worse, at least for the duration of this season. He's made his bed.
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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
im of the opinion that Doc is totally misusing Jeff Green...I mean you give a guy 10minutes one night and 30minutes another and expect him to produce consistently? I just dont get what the deal is with that.
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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
im of the opinion that Doc is totally misusing Jeff Green...I mean you give a guy 10minutes one night and 30minutes another and expect him to produce consistently? I just dont get what the deal is with that.
what team out there is going to want to take on $11 million worth of Bass and Lee and give us a quality rotation big man?
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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
Going to have to take on a really bad contract with that trade bait.
Probably someone who is an average to below average starter and is egregiously overpaid. Someone like Okafor. Although he only has two years left on his deal. Boston might have to pay a fair bit more. Maybe an additional two first round picks. Maybe eat another bad long term contract if Washington have one left (Ariza?).
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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
Going to have to take on a really bad contract with that trade bait.
Probably someone who is an average to below average starter and is egregiously overpaid. Someone like Okafor. Although he only has two years left on his deal. Boston might have to pay a fair bit more. Maybe an additional two first round picks. Maybe eat another bad long term contract if Washington have one left (Ariza?).
Ariza and Okafor is a possibility. Not exactly inspiring, but that might be one of the better options out there. Still, not sure how we're going to really entice the Wizards, though I guess Jeff Green would be a big upgrade for them at starting SF.
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having this group signed for another 2-3 years is only a positive if it's truly team chemistry and player roles that are the problem. If this is as good as Doc can get them to play, it's either trade them out for different pieces or dump Doc. I'm leaning towards dump Doc because I think he's incredibly overrated and I really believe a different coach would be getting better results with this roster.
That 1st rounder next year becomes more valuable with each passing week as the C's sink in the standings and continue to slide out of the playoffs. C's are due for some lottery luck at some point. the way they're going, they may find out if this is the year lightning strikes and they get that young stud they really need to pair with Rondo (Nerlens Noel perhaps)
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Doc's a good mentor, but coaching is something he's not good at.
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Leandro Barbosa:
Some team might want him around the trade deadline for instant offense off the bench, but doubtful anybody gives up any real value for him. After all, there's a reason he wasn't signed until late October.
A second round pick is all I expect Barbosa is worth. Maybe two if they're in the latter half of the second round.
Kris Joseph:
We'll see if he's even on the roster by the trade deadline. He could be waived to make room for some veteran castoffs from some other teams.
No value
Fab Melo:
He's a D-league project. Enough said.
Same value as when selected. Late first, early second.
Jason Collins:
He's a waiver wire candidate for somebody around the trade deadline. Or a retiree before season's end.
No value
Chris Wilcox:
Worth more to the Celtics than he'd be to some other team in any deal.
No value
Brandon Bass:
Much like Lee, Bass is on a reasonable contract, but he's a role player at best, probably ideally suited to a back-up role. Hard to find a market for a player like that making $6 million a year, especially one who hasn't played particularly well so far this season.
A strong backup PF worth $4-5 million a year being paid $7 million.
So about 40-55% more than he should be. And locked up for two more seasons after this one. Unlikely to get comparable value in return without taking an equally bad or worse contract back in exchange. If they take a much worse contract, maybe they could get an upgrade.
Courtney Lee:
He's having an okay season if you ignore his outside shooting. But a huge part of his value in the past has been his outside shooting, so that's kind of a big deal. He's not drastically overpaid, but until he starts playing better his contract isn't really a "bargain," either. What you see is what you get with Courtney Lee, though it's probably safe to assume he'll find his three point stroke again eventually, and he's just entering his prime. He's far from worthless, but I don't see any teams falling over themselves to acquire him, either.
Valued role player. Plays good defense. Shoots very well. Decent ball-handler, passer and decision maker. Doesn't rebound.
Several teams will be interested in him as a role player. Some as a starter. Others as a reserve. Obviously, minutes available at his new team will play a big role in dictating value. So the ones who will be interested in him as a starter (say Minnesota, maybe Chicago) are the best bets for value.
A late first round pick. A comparable mid-level rotation player. Unlikely to net a solid starter in return. More likely a strong bench player.
Rondo:
Unless another top player like Chris Paul becomes available on the trade market, it seems unlikely that Ainge will look to move Rondo. As it stands, Rondo's trade value has never been higher, but aside from a dollar-for-three-quarters kind of deal, it's hard to imagine Rondo getting moved.
There are only around 10 players in the league you consider trading Rondo for and none of them are on the market right now. No trade.
Paul Pierce:
Though Danny supposedly came close to trading Pierce last season, with KG locked up for a couple more seasons, it's hard to envision him trading Pierce. I think Pierce is basically slated to retire in green unless he and KG both request a trade.
KG:
From the sound of it, the only reason he chose to continue his career rather than retire was because he had the option of returning to Boston to play for Doc Rivers. I think he might actually have a no-trade clause. KG isn't going anywhere unless he requests it.
Can't upgrade the team by trading Garnett or Pierce. Too old.
Only value in trading either player is to initiate rebuilding and pick up some assets in the process.
Jason Terry:
Danny's first goal of the off-season was to woo Terry to come to Boston to win championships. Trading Jason Terry with less than half a season in Boston could have a serious chilling effect on future attempts to bring free agents to town. Not to mention that Terry is having one of his worst seasons and is already 35, meaning his trade value isn't high.
Maybe. Contract is nice and low on a per annum basis. Makes it easier to move him.
Only title contenders would be interested in him. Everyone knows what he is capable of. What he achieved in Dallas. I think he'll still be valued highly as a sixth man.
There is a chance you could get something of comparable value back in return for Terry. Probably not scoring. More of a defender/rebounder type or an all-rounder. The team acquiring him will probably only do so if they need extra scoring punch. But there is a chance you could get a high level role player in exchange for Terry.
Edit: Trading Terry for a high level role player at another position and promoting Leandro Barbosa to lead backup guard could actually be a very good idea for Boston. I wonder if there is something there.
Jeff Green:
Still looks like one of the worst contracts given out this summer, despite the fact that he's had some good games in recent weeks. He just hasn't been consistent enough, and he's still completely disappearing at times. Perhaps by the All-Star break he will have strung together enough good performances to establish some trade value, but at the moment he'd pretty much be filler in any deal, considering how many years he's got left. Some teams might still hold out hope that he can be a top offensive option if given the chance with a starting job, but considering how much he's owed, it'd be a tough sell.
I think J.Green is a player, much like Bargnani, who's value will vary widely throughout the league. Some will be scared off by his contract, health and inconsistency. Some will see strong potential and be willing to take a chance on him.
I have to believe that Danny was forced into giving J.Green all that money (per annum + length of deal) this summer because of other team's strong interest. Presumably there are still several teams out there who will be willing to take a chance on him and give up something of good value.
Avery Bradley:
Bradley has shown some good stuff, but we're talking about a month or two of regular rotation minutes followed by months of inactivity due to a couple of pretty serious injuries to his shoulders. He's going to have to play really well to re-establish his value, and a month and a half or so (from January to mid-February) probably won't be long enough.
Jared Sullinger:
He's shown some good stuff, but he hasn't exactly been consistent, and he's still a rookie. Trading him now would be selling really low. I'm sure some teams like what they've seen and regret somewhat their decision to pass on him in the draft, but he still hasn't proven that he's a sure thing to be more than a backup.
Uncertain about Bradley and Sully.
I'd say Sully's is quite low. Still soon after the draft and he hasn't accomplished much yet. Probably similar to where it was at draft time. A mid to low first rounder.
Avery Bradley is hard to place trade value wise.
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having this group signed for another 2-3 years is only a positive if it's truly team chemistry and player roles that are the problem. If this is as good as Doc can get them to play, it's either trade them out for different pieces or dump Doc. I'm leaning towards dump Doc because I think he's incredibly overrated and I really believe a different coach would be getting better results with this roster.
That 1st rounder next year becomes more valuable with each passing week as the C's sink in the standings and continue to slide out of the playoffs. C's are due for some lottery luck at some point. the way they're going, they may find out if this is the year lightning strikes and they get that young stud they really need to pair with Rondo (Nerlens Noel perhaps)
This
Doc, not a very good coach...period
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I liked having Thibs and L.Frank here. They would get up in the players face and speak the truth to them.
Very few assistant coaches do that. They coddle players. Be the nice guy. The hand holding. And they end up forcing the head coach to be the bad guy all the time and make life more difficult on him.
I thought it was great for Doc to have that type of presence alongside him on the bench. Took that pressure of him. Didn't force him to be the bad guy all the time. Allowed him more flexibility in moving back between a friendly word and harsh criticism. Freed him up to be a better coach.
Do any of this year's assistant coaches do that? Get in a player's face and get after them? I haven't noticed.
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Danny made a pretty good bed if you ask me.
I think it's Doc, he's not using the bed correctly. Starting two off the bench guys who flourish in that kind of role. Insisting on small ball. Not giving a green light for Jet to create for himself. Not playing Darko. Not giving Jeff Green some Iso when we saw that he can beat other SF's one on one.
I think Danny did a good job making the bed. But, and I love Doc, we need to make him accountable now. Most of this is his fault I believe.
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He did his best with what he had to work with....
Not a lot of money, an unfavorable market, and no trade assets. On paper he brought together talented pieces. The players ultimately have to perform and it's on them. They aren't doing their jobs and there doesn't seem to be any urgency on the court to do so. They definitely lack trust and there seems to be no improvement in terms of chemistry or continuity.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
I was actually thinking that starting JG and bringing PP off the bench to save his legs might be the best non-trade idea to improve the team right now.
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He did his best with what he had to work with....
Not a lot of money, an unfavorable market, and no trade assets. On paper he brought together talented pieces. The players ultimately have to perform and it's on them. They aren't doing their jobs and there doesn't seem to be any urgency on the court to do so. They definitely lack trust and there seems to be no improvement in terms of chemistry or continuity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Danny.
The point here is, there's not much room for tinkering with this roster. What you see is what you get. Unless they "figure it out" or "flip the switch" or whatever cliche you want to throw out there, we're on this train headed nowhere for the duration of the season.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
So your get tough program would have Lee sitting because he's not earning his keep but playing Green for even more minutes to make him earn his keep nevermind that Green's play is only slightly down from his career standard. This is who Green is. His shooting's a little down, like it is with many of the Celtics but all his other numbers are similar on a per minute basis. He was never worth 9 million and playing him 35 minutes a night like he's never played that much before isn't going to miraculously make him into someone he's not.
Green looks the part but he's not a top-tier or second-tier talented player. He's not overly quick, more mid-tempo, one speed, rarely able to cleanly and explosively beat his defender off the dribble; has no left hand; is an average and at times soft finisher around the basket; defensive IQ looks low and his motor is so-so. I don't know what Ainge saw in him.
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Having debated with some fellow CEltic fans about how "untouchable" Sullinger is... I can confidently say that some Celtic fans would rather hang onto Sully (who they see as "basically" a late lotto pick) than bring in a fringe star like Al jefferson and Josh Smith.
So based on that logic... I guess our most valuable asset outside of Rajon Rondo... is our 2013 1st rounder. It's closer to a legit lotto pick than Sullinger.
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There are only around 10 players in the league you consider trading Rondo for and none of them are on the market right now. No trade.
I disagree strongly. If you consider projects and draft picks, there are quite a lot of reasonable packages I would trade Rondo for.
If we´re not contending, we are rebuilding, and what exactly is Rondo doing here, then?
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Danny made a pretty good bed if you ask me.
I think it's Doc, he's not using the bed correctly. Starting two off the bench guys who flourish in that kind of role. Insisting on small ball. Not giving a green light for Jet to create for himself. Not playing Darko. Not giving Jeff Green some Iso when we saw that he can beat other SF's one on one.
I think Danny did a good job making the bed. But, and I love Doc, we need to make him accountable now. Most of this is his fault I believe.
this +1
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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
im of the opinion that Doc is totally misusing Jeff Green...I mean you give a guy 10minutes one night and 30minutes another and expect him to produce consistently? I just dont get what the deal is with that.
Doc has been known to fidget with rotations. Danny may have given him too many options. Last year we were had no depth, but that may have actually helped us because Doc just kept going back to the well over and over again.
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I am very thankful for Danny without him no banner in 08. I think this team looked ok on paper but for whatever reason it hasn't worked on the court.
I love Doc as a person, but I too think he is a so so coach. Great with the guys but X and Os wise he is a meddler who tinkers too much for my taste. Small ball has failed, enough of it. People have adjusted to our style and exploit it. This means it is time to change how we play to get them off guard.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
Why? Lee is playing good basketball. Its not his fault Doc cant place him into a role correctly. 7 for 11 in the bulls game with 14 points in 23 minutes. Shooting 49% from the field in the month of December and 39% from three point range. Plays solid D and has turned the ball over ONCE in the last 7 games.
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There are only around 10 players in the league you consider trading Rondo for and none of them are on the market right now. No trade.
I disagree strongly. If you consider projects and draft picks, there are quite a lot of reasonable packages I would trade Rondo for.
If we´re not contending, we are rebuilding, and what exactly is Rondo doing here, then?
If we are rebuilding Rondo is the guy to keep. You dont trade the best point guard in the league who is only 26, and hasnt hit his prime yet. You would get rid of the Garnetts and the Pierces of the world and let Rondo lead the young team.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
Why? Lee is playing good basketball. Its not his fault Doc cant place him into a role correctly. 7 for 11 in the bulls game with 14 points in 23 minutes. Shooting 49% from the field in the month of December and 39% from three point range. Plays solid D and has turned the ball over ONCE in the last 7 games.
This.
The fact that Lee is playing good defense is warranted playing time already. He's picking up his offensive game too. Problem is, he really doesn't have an offensive role. Is he a back up PG? Does he come off the screen? Does he wait in a corner and shoot? He's lost out there, and I think some of it is on coaching.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
Why? Lee is playing good basketball. Its not his fault Doc cant place him into a role correctly. 7 for 11 in the bulls game with 14 points in 23 minutes. Shooting 49% from the field in the month of December and 39% from three point range. Plays solid D and has turned the ball over ONCE in the last 7 games.
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
Me too. And now, he has his work cut out for him to either see it through, or change course midstream. I don't envy his job.
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
It may still work if Sullinger develops into a respectable starter next season, and Bradley is healthy. Garnett, Pierce, Terry, and Bass would be nice pieces to round up the roster in diminished roles.
Of course, that's a huge gamble, and I'm a little worried that a guard that mostly scores on defensive breakdowns from the other team, and an undersized PF who looks terribly overmatched on most nights are not the best assets to gamble on.
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Nice and thoughtful analysis by the OP. TP for that.
I'm pretty much in agreement. Celtics are underwhelming at this point, and don't really have any trade assets, other than Rondo.
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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
im of the opinion that Doc is totally misusing Jeff Green...I mean you give a guy 10minutes one night and 30minutes another and expect him to produce consistently? I just dont get what the deal is with that.
Doc has been known to fidget with rotations. Danny may have given him too many options. Last year we were had no depth, but that may have actually helped us because Doc just kept going back to the well over and over again.
This is exactly it: one of Doc's biggest faults.
When we had the most success, we had a short bench, and questionable, unproven starters. Rajon and Perk were the unproven guys, and if Doc had another choice, he probably would've went in another direction. IF he had a lot of choices, he would have went in all sorts of directions.
Danny did an awesome job gathering talent this offseason with little to work with. Doc spent the early season figuring out who was who and what worked. That's what preseason and camp are for.
We need a solid, consistent, 8-9 player rotation. We shoudl have it together by around the allstar break, and we should finish the season strong. That's Doc's MO, and why he is generally considered to be a good coach.
Danny did too good a job. He got the best players possible, I think, and Doc is, as usual, taking his time getting it organized.
That said, some of the parts don't fit what Doc wants to do. He wants players to adjust to the system, which is necessary of course, but seems to focus on that rather than taking max advantage of the individual talents of the players.
Danny had a heck of an offseason, though. GMOY worthy, IMO.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
You sound like PJ Carlesimo. That type of coach doesn't work with todays players.
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
You sound like PJ Carlesimo. That type of coach doesn't work with todays players.
It didn't work too well when he was a HC either, getting choked by one of his players.
Doc did this when it didn't matter; he sat Pierce for a while once in the trash years for walking up the court. No yelling, etc., very businesslike, as it should be.
He wouldn't do that now.
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Great post by PhoSita!! But I knew we was in trouble when the C's didnt get a quality big man in the offseason..Think this team was going to win with Wilcox, Collins, Darko, and Fab at center>>Cmon man!!!
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double post
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There are only around 10 players in the league you consider trading Rondo for and none of them are on the market right now. No trade.
I disagree strongly. If you consider projects and draft picks, there are quite a lot of reasonable packages I would trade Rondo for.
If we´re not contending, we are rebuilding, and what exactly is Rondo doing here, then?
If we are rebuilding Rondo is the guy to keep. You dont trade the best point guard in the league who is only 26, and hasnt hit his prime yet. You would get rid of the Garnetts and the Pierces of the world and let Rondo lead the young team.
- Rondo will turn 27 in 2 months
- Why should he waste his time on a rebuilding team, and
- what exactly do we need him for, then?
- Rondo is not the best PG in the league, he´s barely top 5, and most of his competition is younger than him and will most likely surpass him soon enough
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
You sound like PJ Carlesimo. That type of coach doesn't work with todays players.
It didn't work too well when he was a HC either, getting choked by one of his players.
Doc did this when it didn't matter; he sat Pierce for a while once in the trash years for walking up the court. No yelling, etc., very businesslike, as it should be.
He wouldn't do that now.
Big deal , the point is Doc has no nads . You don't reward people for playin bad on purpose . Bench em or trade. Turning your head is looking the other way or lying to yourself and everybody about a problem is no solution.
Come on Doc put on the big boy pants right the ship.
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
Ditto. And I don't find this record particularly alarming - save this team's inability to play competent defense.
I do suspect that a major move is going to be required to change that, and I do suspect that it may require moving the cherished Avery Bradley to accomplish - in a month.
Time for Danny to kick the tires on everything. If Kevin Love can be had, Minny can, in a month, have Bradley, Green and all the draft choices we can muster.
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
Ditto. And I don't find this record particularly alarming - save this team's inability to play competent defense.
I do suspect that a major move is going to be required to change that, and I do suspect that it may require moving the cherished Avery Bradley to accomplish - in a month.
Time for Danny to kick the tires on everything. If Kevin Love can be had, Minny can, in a month, have Bradley, Green and all the draft choices we can muster.
I just wish he had done that every season after the first title and didn't worry so much about "balancing"
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There are only around 10 players in the league you consider trading Rondo for and none of them are on the market right now. No trade.
I disagree strongly. If you consider projects and draft picks, there are quite a lot of reasonable packages I would trade Rondo for.
If we´re not contending, we are rebuilding, and what exactly is Rondo doing here, then?
Why would we trade Rondo for a project that may or may not pan out? Why make any of the roster moves that we did if we're then going to downgrade our talent level to take a flier or two on young players and picks?
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
Rondo pushes the ball up court every time we have decent numbers. Maybe you should sit the other players for not beating their men up court, if they did Rondo would run the ball more often.
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Rondo pushes the ball up court every time we have decent numbers.
It's true that Rondo usually has no one running with him, but that doesn't explain why he slowly walks the ball up the court in non-fastbreaks. When Boston is taking the ball out in any static situation, Rondo usually takes at least 6 seconds to get across halfcourt. Then it takes another 2 to 3 seconds to get the play underway. So, Boston usually wastes a third or more of the shot clock on normal possessions. I know that getting up the floor a second or two sooner doesn't seem like much, but even a slightly increased pace can have a big affect over the course of a game.
Mike
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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.
I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.
I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.
They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.
You sound like PJ Carlesimo. That type of coach doesn't work with todays players.
It didn't work too well when he was a HC either, getting choked by one of his players.
Doc did this when it didn't matter; he sat Pierce for a while once in the trash years for walking up the court. No yelling, etc., very businesslike, as it should be.
He wouldn't do that now.
Big deal , the point is Doc has no nads . You don't reward people for playin bad on purpose . Bench em or trade. Turning your head is looking the other way or lying to yourself and everybody about a problem is no solution.
Come on Doc put on the big boy pants right the ship.
looking that way definitely
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
Me too. And now, he has his work cut out for him to either see it through, or change course midstream. I don't envy his job.
Hard not to see it through with KG having a No Trade Clause.
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Rondo pushes the ball up court every time we have decent numbers.
It's true that Rondo usually has no one running with him, but that doesn't explain why he slowly walks the ball up the court in non-fastbreaks. When Boston is taking the ball out in any static situation, Rondo usually takes at least 6 seconds to get across halfcourt. Then it takes another 2 to 3 seconds to get the play underway. So, Boston usually wastes a third or more of the shot clock on normal possessions. I know that getting up the floor a second or two sooner doesn't seem like much, but even a slightly increased pace can have a big affect over the course of a game.
Mike
I don't think it's necessarily true that the Celts want to play at a faster pace.
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I respect that Danny committed to a plan -- "win now" -- and went all in.
Me too. And now, he has his work cut out for him to either see it through, or change course midstream. I don't envy his job.
Hard not to see it through with KG having a No Trade Clause.
bottom line is this keep striving for the win now this year. If it does not work out then Danny can blow this whole thing to kingdome come including rondo and start over from scratch. However, there is only a small handful of guys who are realistically not tradeable this year if we are going all in, rondo, JET, PP and KG. That is it. everyone else is tradeable. trade as many of those guys as needed to get what we need to win now and maybe next year also.
I have come to accept the fact i like bass, sully, green , bradley, etc that any number of them could be gone.....whatever it takes. give it a try...why not? KG and PP are not playing but 1 or 2 more years anyway. go all out to win this year and next year if it does not work out blow the whole thing up as soon as Danny sees fit. Could be this year after trades if thinjgs are not working out or it could be two years from now after we win title 18 and JET, KG and PP retire. we'll see.
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Doc's a good mentor, but coaching is something he's not good at.
this