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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ctrey on December 15, 2012, 01:21:47 PM

Title: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ctrey on December 15, 2012, 01:21:47 PM
I hate to say it, I hate even more to watch it but that is a significant problem with this team. Pierce's shooting is a career low, his three point shooting is the third lowest of his career and lately it has been awful, barely over .200%. He is getting torched on defense, they showed two clips on ESPN of him getting his ankles shattered by opposing players the other day. Chandler Parsons nearly had a triple double against him last night. Chandler "You would not know who I was even if I had my on reality show" Parsons.

Sometimes it happens slowly, sometimes it happens in a flash but all players get old. They lose a step. They have less lift. Their shot goes flat. Sadly that is what has happened to Paul Pierce, the stats bear it out.

Now I am not suggesting we trade him. I want Paul to retire a Celtic. I think though that we have to give a long look at starting Jeff Green. We need to see what we have there. In fact at nine million a year it is imperative that we see if he can play big boy minutes. Lately, while playing at three he has looked pretty good. Really good while at the three alongside Rondo. Jeff Green might really light it up if given the chance. I honestly believe is a player that needs to start, not come off the bench.

Now I know by doing this it might signal a white flag by the Celtics. I doubt that, I think Paul might thrive as sixth man. It is an honored Celtic tradition and Paul has been a consummate professional for his entire career. It would certainly keep him fresher for the playoffs and allow him to not worry as much chasing around top flight small forwards that simply are too quick for him now. Paul was never blazingly fast to begin with, his game was about guile, strength, angles and spacing. He his the perhaps the greatest ever at that facet of the game.

Now I may be run out of town for all of this, but take a close look and I think you will find I am right. It happens to all players, the Celtics must admit to it and adjust.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: dinome18 on December 15, 2012, 01:26:43 PM
I completely agree  ;D
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: scaryjerry on December 15, 2012, 01:30:21 PM
Ya think? ineffecient scorer who is at best average right now...sorry Paul
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: PhoSita on December 15, 2012, 01:32:04 PM
I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ctrey on December 15, 2012, 01:37:21 PM
I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: moiso on December 15, 2012, 01:42:07 PM
You might be right, but I'd take quite a bit more time to see if Pierce improves and monitor Green's progress.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: LB3533 on December 15, 2012, 01:42:58 PM
It's early...it takes some time for the aged-vets to get going.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 15, 2012, 01:51:55 PM
Yep - the OP is telling the truth.

But, according to ESPN.com player rankings - he is a top 25 player, still.

He is still a top 5 SF, easily - perhaps top 4, since Iguodala is now playing SG in DEN.

He is still one of the top scorers in the league - don't let last night's episode fool you.

And he will get even better than what we've seen so far. It's a long season, and now that Jeff Green is getting into a groove, I expect Paul Pierce to see reduced minutes - all in Doc's grand plan to keep him, Jet and KG fresh for the playoffs.

Playoff Paul Pierce (and KG, and Jet) are coming soon.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: moiso on December 15, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
Yep - the OP is telling the truth.

But, according to ESPN.com player rankings - he is a top 25 player, still.

He is still a top 5 SF, easily - perhaps top 4, since Iguodala is now playing SG in DEN.

He is still one of the top scorers in the league - don't let last night's episode fool you.

And he will get even better than what we've seen so far. It's a long season, and now that Jeff Green is getting into a groove, I expect Paul Pierce to see reduced minutes - all in Doc's grand plan to keep him, Jet and KG fresh for the playoffs.

Playoff Paul Pierce (and KG, and Jet) are coming soon.
I wouldn't call anyone with a 41% shooting percentage a top scorer, even if they are averaging 35 points per game.  Hopefully as the season goes on Paul can hit more of the shots he has hit throughout his career.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: PhoSita on December 15, 2012, 02:03:33 PM
I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 15, 2012, 02:06:35 PM
Yep - the OP is telling the truth.

But, according to ESPN.com player rankings - he is a top 25 player, still.

He is still a top 5 SF, easily - perhaps top 4, since Iguodala is now playing SG in DEN.

He is still one of the top scorers in the league - don't let last night's episode fool you.

And he will get even better than what we've seen so far. It's a long season, and now that Jeff Green is getting into a groove, I expect Paul Pierce to see reduced minutes - all in Doc's grand plan to keep him, Jet and KG fresh for the playoffs.

Playoff Paul Pierce (and KG, and Jet) are coming soon.
I wouldn't call anyone with a 41% shooting percentage a top scorer, even if they are averaging 35 points per game.  Hopefully as the season goes on Paul can hit more of the shots he has hit throughout his career.

He'll average out...his career FG% is right around 45-46%. I wouldn't take too much stock in anyone's stats right now.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: moiso on December 15, 2012, 02:15:48 PM
Yep - the OP is telling the truth.

But, according to ESPN.com player rankings - he is a top 25 player, still.

He is still a top 5 SF, easily - perhaps top 4, since Iguodala is now playing SG in DEN.

He is still one of the top scorers in the league - don't let last night's episode fool you.

And he will get even better than what we've seen so far. It's a long season, and now that Jeff Green is getting into a groove, I expect Paul Pierce to see reduced minutes - all in Doc's grand plan to keep him, Jet and KG fresh for the playoffs.

Playoff Paul Pierce (and KG, and Jet) are coming soon.
I wouldn't call anyone with a 41% shooting percentage a top scorer, even if they are averaging 35 points per game.  Hopefully as the season goes on Paul can hit more of the shots he has hit throughout his career.

He'll average out...his career FG% is right around 45-46%. I wouldn't take too much stock in anyone's stats right now.
I hope you are right.  Right now I cringe every time he takes his little step back fallaway from the foul line area.  The ball is barely going higher than the rim as if he has no legs.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 15, 2012, 02:20:05 PM
he's old but still top 10 in da league in scorin lol Pierce will get his FG% up later in da season everyone who been watchin him for years knos he plays his best ball around March. nd i can tell u only pay attention to da celtics only cuz Chandler Parsons has improved a lot dis year nd is da rockets 2nd best player aint like he gave up 21 points to Cartier Martin like da lakers
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 15, 2012, 02:23:40 PM
Yep - the OP is telling the truth.

But, according to ESPN.com player rankings - he is a top 25 player, still.

He is still a top 5 SF, easily - perhaps top 4, since Iguodala is now playing SG in DEN.

He is still one of the top scorers in the league - don't let last night's episode fool you.

And he will get even better than what we've seen so far. It's a long season, and now that Jeff Green is getting into a groove, I expect Paul Pierce to see reduced minutes - all in Doc's grand plan to keep him, Jet and KG fresh for the playoffs.

Playoff Paul Pierce (and KG, and Jet) are coming soon.
I wouldn't call anyone with a 41% shooting percentage a top scorer, even if they are averaging 35 points per game.  Hopefully as the season goes on Paul can hit more of the shots he has hit throughout his career.

He'll average out...his career FG% is right around 45-46%. I wouldn't take too much stock in anyone's stats right now.
I hope you are right.  Right now I cringe every time he takes his little step back fallaway from the foul line area.  The ball is barely going higher than the rim as if he has no legs.

Just give him (and the team) time.

Looking at his stats, he's averaging 5.5 rebs per game so far this season - he hasn't pulled down that many since 08-09.

He's also averaging 1.5 stls - he hasn't swiped that many since 04-05.

His blocks are down - but Jeff Green is averaging .5 to compensate for it.

I'd still chose Paul Pierce as my SF for my fantasy team - even at this stage of his career. There aren't many crafty, driven and clutch SFs out there left.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Smitty77 on December 15, 2012, 02:34:26 PM
That Chandler Parsons that you know nothing about has about exactly the same efficiency rating as does PP (17.81 to PP's 17.86).  Parsons is a player.  I do wish he would get a more manly haircut:-))))))  This kid can play and Ainge totally screwed up by taking JJ rather than this kid!!!!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Ogaju on December 15, 2012, 02:43:43 PM
I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.

This

I have been saying that is our problem. The issue is not KG OR PP it is the fact that they are our elite players, and they are much too old for that.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: alajet on December 15, 2012, 03:02:45 PM
That Chandler Parsons that you know nothing about has about exactly the same efficiency rating as does PP (17.81 to PP's 17.86).  Parsons is a player.  I do wish he would get a more manly haircut:-))))))  This kid can play and Ainge totally screwed up by taking JJ rather than this kid!!!!!

Smitty77

This.
Moreover, his performance has got nothing to do with Pierce alone. He posted a statline of 31-5-4-4 over Carmelo Anthony. Why are people so keen on reading into single game stats for this seriously, I wonder.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: OsirusCeltics on December 15, 2012, 03:13:51 PM
He's 35... You're just figuring that out now??
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: PhoSita on December 15, 2012, 03:22:26 PM
I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.

This

I have been saying that is our problem. The issue is not KG OR PP it is the fact that they are our elite players, and they are much too old for that.

Yes, just to expand on the point a little bit -- take a look at all of the top teams in the league.  What do they have in common?


Top scoring options:

OKC - Durant / Westbrook
Miami - LeBron / Wade
NY - Melo
SA - Parker
Memphis - Randolph / Gay
LAC - Griffin / Crawford / Paul
GS - Curry / Lee
ATL - Smith / Horford

Not all of those teams are elite, but those are the top two tiers of teams in the league so far this season.

Every last one of them depends on top scoring options who are, at most, 30-32 years old.  In most cases one of their primary options is 27-29.

The Celtics are not an "old" team in the sense that many of their key players are not that old.  But they are very old in the sense that 3 of their top 4 scoring options are 35+.  That's a major part of the explanation for their inconsistency.


While Rondo is the Cs central and best player, and he is not yet 27, most of the time he operates as the 3rd or 4th option in our offense.  That's fine -- it's the best role for him -- but it means we need to surround him with guys who can carry that load every night.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: dark_lord on December 15, 2012, 03:25:16 PM
He's 35... You're just figuring that out now??

lol, exactly! tp
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 15, 2012, 03:53:12 PM
If you had your eyes opened, this didn't happen fast, it's been happening over the last few years.   He didn't get free for his shot or missed those last shots he used to ice.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: biggs on December 15, 2012, 04:22:35 PM
I hate to say it, I hate even more to watch it but that is a significant problem with this team. Pierce's shooting is a career low, his three point shooting is the third lowest of his career and lately it has been awful, barely over .200%. He is getting torched on defense, they showed two clips on ESPN of him getting his ankles shattered by opposing players the other day. Chandler Parsons nearly had a triple double against him last night. Chandler "You would not know who I was even if I had my on reality show" Parsons.

Sometimes it happens slowly, sometimes it happens in a flash but all players get old. They lose a step. They have less lift. Their shot goes flat. Sadly that is what has happened to Paul Pierce, the stats bear it out.

Now I am not suggesting we trade him. I want Paul to retire a Celtic. I think though that we have to give a long look at starting Jeff Green. We need to see what we have there. In fact at nine million a year it is imperative that we see if he can play big boy minutes. Lately, while playing at three he has looked pretty good. Really good while at the three alongside Rondo. Jeff Green might really light it up if given the chance. I honestly believe is a player that needs to start, not come off the bench.

Now I know by doing this it might signal a white flag by the Celtics. I doubt that, I think Paul might thrive as sixth man. It is an honored Celtic tradition and Paul has been a consummate professional for his entire career. It would certainly keep him fresher for the playoffs and allow him to not worry as much chasing around top flight small forwards that simply are too quick for him now. Paul was never blazingly fast to begin with, his game was about guile, strength, angles and spacing. He his the perhaps the greatest ever at that facet of the game.

Now I may be run out of town for all of this, but take a close look and I think you will find I am right. It happens to all players, the Celtics must admit to it and adjust.

Agreed
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: LarBrd33 on December 15, 2012, 04:24:45 PM
He's not playing all that worse than he was last year.  His shot is a little off, but it's been 20 games and it's a long season.  He's still averaging 20 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.5 steals... shooting 41%, 35% from three and 82% from the line.

He's still as important to this team's success as KG and Rondo.  He's probably just going through a cold streak.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: BballTim on December 15, 2012, 04:26:11 PM
I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.

This

I have been saying that is our problem. The issue is not KG OR PP it is the fact that they are our elite players, and they are much too old for that.

Yes, just to expand on the point a little bit -- take a look at all of the top teams in the league.  What do they have in common?


Top scoring options:

OKC - Durant / Westbrook
Miami - LeBron / Wade
NY - Melo
SA - Parker
Memphis - Randolph / Gay
LAC - Griffin / Crawford / Paul
GS - Curry / Lee
ATL - Smith / Horford

Not all of those teams are elite, but those are the top two tiers of teams in the league so far this season.

Every last one of them depends on top scoring options who are, at most, 30-32 years old.  In most cases one of their primary options is 27-29.

The Celtics are not an "old" team in the sense that many of their key players are not that old.  But they are very old in the sense that 3 of their top 4 scoring options are 35+.  That's a major part of the explanation for their inconsistency.


While Rondo is the Cs central and best player, and he is not yet 27, most of the time he operates as the 3rd or 4th option in our offense.  That's fine -- it's the best role for him -- but it means we need to surround him with guys who can carry that load every night.

  Imagine San Antonio's relief that Duncan (scoring a point a game less than Parker) isn't considered one of their top scoring options. This makes them much more viable contenders.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ScottHow on December 15, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Ya, he's looking more and more like a gunner.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Smutzy#9 on December 15, 2012, 05:03:21 PM
I would still take paul over 90% of the league.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: LarBrd33 on December 15, 2012, 05:18:54 PM
I would still take paul over 90% of the league.
There's only 40 players outperforming him in a league of like 422.  Of the 40 players currently outperforming him... there's a couple you'd still probably take Pierce over... like Ryan Anderson.  There's a couple who play a redundant position to Rondo like Jrue Holiday.  SO yeah... right now, you'd probably definitely take PIerce over 90% of the league.  If you're aiming towards the future, there's probably quite a few players not performing as well as Pierce that you'd have to trade him or.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: aporel#18 on December 15, 2012, 06:56:46 PM
If you're aiming towards the future, there's probably quite a few players not performing as well as Pierce that you'd have to trade him or.

Well, you're right if you talk about managing a fantasy league team, or a video game. But there's more to basketball than stats and projections, we're talking about people. About players and about fans, who follow their team and get attached to their stars.

So no, in the real world you don't trade the Captain unless he's demanding a trade and you're getting a star player in return (not likely).
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: mctyson on December 15, 2012, 07:02:29 PM
And people wonder why Danny gave Green 4 years on his contract.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: jdz101 on December 15, 2012, 07:13:58 PM
Seriously you could have just grabbed a bunch of threads that were posted this time last year and this forum would have looked exactly the same. "This team is done", "pierce is old", "this team sucks"
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ssspence on December 15, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I'll say this much: anyone who thinks a team with 35yo Paul Pierce as its top scorer AND best defender at the 3 is winning a chamionship is dreaming.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Birdman on December 15, 2012, 07:30:13 PM
I still think this is PP last year..he will retire
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 15, 2012, 07:31:46 PM
I'll say this much: anyone who thinks a team with 35yo Paul Pierce as its top scorer AND best defender at the 3 is winning a chamionship is dreaming.

Well, call me a dreamer...I still like our opportunity in May and June, however small it may seem.

I'll take my chances with Playoff KG, Paul Pierce, RONDOOOOOO, Jet, Consistent Jeff Green, Bass, Wilcox, Sully, Leandro, Lee and Co.

It's Jeff Green's job to keep Paul fresh for the playoffs, and he's doing just that for the most part. Outside of the HOU game, I think Paul's minutes have been decent.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ScottHow on December 15, 2012, 07:31:55 PM
I'll say this much: anyone who thinks a team with 35yo Paul Pierce as its top scorer AND best defender at the 3 is winning a chamionship is dreaming.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaah. tp
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: BballTim on December 15, 2012, 07:34:09 PM
I'll say this much: anyone who thinks a team with 35yo Paul Pierce as its top scorer AND best defender at the 3 is winning a chamionship is dreaming.

  Which of those two things will prevent us from winning the title, the scoring or the defense?
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics18 on December 15, 2012, 07:34:55 PM
I disagree with the original premise of this thread.  I absolutely think that Paul Pierce should remain our starting small forward.  He's a top fifty player and a top five or six small forward.  He's still one of the craftiest, most skilled basketball players around. 

He's struggling with his shooting percentage, but I think he can get that up to closer to .450 than .400 before too long. 

Leave Jeff as a sub off the bench and keep the captain in the starting lineup. 
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: albas89 on December 15, 2012, 07:35:57 PM
Seriously you could have just grabbed a bunch of threads that were posted this time last year and this forum would have looked exactly the same. "This team is done", "pierce is old", "this team sucks"
After a very slow start of 10-15 games due to the injury he had, Pierce was actually BALLING by this time last year... and that was the reason he was a lock for the 2012 ASG despite missing a lot of games to start a much shortened season. There was even a stretch of games when Rondo was out that Paul was doing basically everything on the offensive end. That Paul was a far cry from what we're seeing this season, at least so far. I'm really worried.

That being said, I can't believe half the stuff I'm reading in this forum... wanting to trade a Celtic legend and a player who spent his whole career sticking with this team for some unproven rookies or role players? really...??
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: moiso on December 15, 2012, 07:55:12 PM
In a couple months, if Paul is taking the most shots on the team and his shooting percentage isn't above 45% I would say we are in huge trouble.  That's a recipe for disaster.  That's like the Antoine years, or the Iverson years in Philly.  The defense has to be absolutely amazing to make a decent title attempt under that condition.

Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 15, 2012, 08:39:12 PM
You're 100 percent correct OP. I have been keeping my eye on pierce and he is for sure slowing down dramatically. He is having bad shooting nights often. If he played less mins and shot less shots *Especially 3's* it wouldn't bother me as much.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GronkSpike on December 15, 2012, 09:14:37 PM
There were some reports last year of Pierce mentioning retirement, I really hope he follows through this year, that way he can retire a Celtic. But it's very unlikely because his player option is $15,333,334...and so you'd have to be crazy for leaving $15M.

Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ssspence on December 15, 2012, 09:27:23 PM
I'll say this much: anyone who thinks a team with 35yo Paul Pierce as its top scorer AND best defender at the 3 is winning a chamionship is dreaming.

  Which of those two things will prevent us from winning the title, the scoring or the defense?

My feeling? The D. The only possible way the Cs make it through Lebron and then Durant in the playoffs is if Pierce has defensive responsibility significantly reduced.

Pierce is almost certain to lead this team in scoring when you consider the games of their other two top players. Thats fine -- this team would have to win ala the 2004 Pistons anyway. I just often wonder what it would be like if the Cs had a long wing defender like Mbah a Moute, allowing PP to move out of the 3 for stretches.

Regardless, there's no way he can manage both and the Cs are hoisting a trophy in 2013. He's just not good enough anymore, and Green to date hasn't shown he can score or defend well or consistently at a high level.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 15, 2012, 09:37:48 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 15, 2012, 09:40:47 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
rite most underappreciated player in da league even by his own fan base i'll neva forget how some celtic fans were mad when he passed Larry Bird for 2nd all-time in da scoring ranks. dats why i hope he passes Hondo so da fan base can get real salty
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: albas89 on December 15, 2012, 09:48:29 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
It's really disappointing. I wonder if guys like Kobe, Dirk and Duncan, who spent their whole careers with one team, even have any haters at all in their respective fan bases. PP is treated like ****... smh
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 15, 2012, 09:49:43 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.

Grow up man. Nobody is being a HATER we are simply stating the obvious. You think we want to see pierce slowing down ? So i guess whenever you say something negative about the c's or a c's player i can call you a hater then?
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 15, 2012, 09:50:30 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
rite most underappreciated player in da league even by his own fan base i'll neva forget how some celtic fans were mad when he passed Larry Bird for 2nd all-time in da scoring ranks. dats why i hope he passes Hondo so da fan base can get real salty

Let the Countdown begin ~3,300 points or so behind.

(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/2c/d1/2cd1cc12057173ec4d5ec755d93fc0e6.jpg)

Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 15, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.

Grow up man. Nobody is being a HATER we are simply stating the obvious. You think we want to see pierce slowing down ? So i guess whenever you say something negative about the c's or a c's player i can call you a hater then?


20/5.5/3.5/1.5
points/rebounds/assists/steals

slowing down  ::) All star lock again.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GronkSpike on December 15, 2012, 10:02:28 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
Haters?  ::) You'd like to have Pierce next year for $15M?

If you look at the Patriots, they've traded players who won multiple championship, were franchise cornerstones and fan beloved. There comes a time that for as much as a player has done for your club you just have to do what's best for your team, and do it for the best value.
That's why I really hope he retires this season.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 15, 2012, 10:11:10 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
Haters?  ::) You'd like to have Pierce next year for $15M?

If you look at the Patriots, they've traded players who won multiple championship, were franchise cornerstones and fan beloved. There comes a time that for as much as a player has done for your club you just have to do what's best for your team, and do it for the best value.
That's why I really hope he retires this season.

By inputting Patriots into the discussion tells me all I need to know about your basketball knowledge.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 15, 2012, 10:13:00 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
It's really disappointing. I wonder if guys like Kobe, Dirk and Duncan, who spent their whole careers with one team, even have any haters at all in their respective fan bases. PP is treated like ****... smh

Its really sad too. Tp
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: esel1000 on December 15, 2012, 10:18:02 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
It's really disappointing. I wonder if guys like Kobe, Dirk and Duncan, who spent their whole careers with one team, even have any haters at all in their respective fan bases. PP is treated like ****... smh

Its really sad too. Tp

this. 35 or not hes one of the best players on this team day in and out...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 15, 2012, 10:27:37 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.

Grow up man. Nobody is being a HATER we are simply stating the obvious. You think we want to see pierce slowing down ? So i guess whenever you say something negative about the c's or a c's player i can call you a hater then?


20/5.5/3.5/1.5
points/rebounds/assists/steals

slowing down  ::) All star lock again.

Yeah, completely ignore his defense turnovers and shooting percentage. I never said pierce was a bum i said hes slowing down and that's a fact.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GronkSpike on December 15, 2012, 10:28:55 PM
By inputting Patriots into the discussion tells me all I need to know about your basketball knowledge.
"By having a Pirlo signature tells all I need to know your basketball knowledge." You must like soccer, so you probably don't know anything about basketball, right?  ::) Or the other way around? ...  ::)

You didn't even posted an argument or something, just went for a personal attack, that's fine. I just expressed my opinion in a way I found easiest and also felt that other people could relate due to the Celtics being a NE based-team and the Patriots being a perennial-championship contender (Isn't that the Celtics' objective, too? All about 18 anyone?). My point was, for as much as you love a player (and I do love Pierce, went to the US last year and specifically bought his jersey because he's my favorite Celtic)you still have to do what's best for your team.

Point being, if this team is a .500 team at the moment, and with Pierce declining a bit, we are kinda strained cap wise, and next year he'll not live up to his contract and Ainge might trade him, so that's why I said, I hope he retires, so he can go as a Celtic. And I wish for you to respect that opinion, thanks.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 15, 2012, 10:31:52 PM
Pierce haters are getting annoying.
Haters?  ::) You'd like to have Pierce next year for $15M?

If you look at the Patriots, they've traded players who won multiple championship, were franchise cornerstones and fan beloved. There comes a time that for as much as a player has done for your club you just have to do what's best for your team, and do it for the best value.
That's why I really hope he retires this season.

Exactly, by the way big patriots game tomorrow i can't wait!!!
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: LarBrd33 on December 15, 2012, 10:35:24 PM
If you're aiming towards the future, there's probably quite a few players not performing as well as Pierce that you'd have to trade him or.

Well, you're right if you talk about managing a fantasy league team, or a video game. But there's more to basketball than stats and projections, we're talking about people. About players and about fans, who follow their team and get attached to their stars.

So no, in the real world you don't trade the Captain unless he's demanding a trade and you're getting a star player in return (not likely).
yeah that's not true though.  Sorry.  If the team isn't in position to compete, there are several young players you'd have to move Pierce for.  Hakeem was traded.  Ewing was traded.  Payton was traded.   The loyalty is admirable, but there are absolutely situations where trading Pierce makes sense.  When we were sub-.500 last year, we tried trading Pierce to the Nets for their lotto pick.  Supposedly Pierce nixed that deal, but I've heard conflicting info depending on who has reported that.

Don't get me wrong... he's 35 and still performing better than probably 90% of the league (only 40 players outperforming him this season).  But if we're not competing for a title, there's definitely logic in moving him while he still has trade value.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: jbaerg on December 15, 2012, 10:35:38 PM
Even the young guys on this team look old. I don't care if we're only 20 games in, we've looked horrible. make some moves.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 15, 2012, 10:51:15 PM
By inputting Patriots into the discussion tells me all I need to know about your basketball knowledge.
"By having a Pirlo signature tells all I need to know your basketball knowledge." You must like soccer, so you probably don't know anything about basketball, right?  ::) Or the other way around? ...  ::)

You didn't even posted an argument or something, just went for a personal attack, that's fine. I just expressed my opinion in a way I found easiest and also felt that other people could relate due to the Celtics being a NE based-team and the Patriots being a perennial-championship contender (Isn't that the Celtics' objective, too? All about 18 anyone?). My point was, for as much as you love a player (and I do love Pierce, went to the US last year and specifically bought his jersey because he's my favorite Celtic)you still have to do what's best for your team.

Point being, if this team is a .500 team at the moment, and with Pierce declining a bit, we are kinda strained cap wise, and next year he'll not live up to his contract and Ainge might trade him, so that's why I said, I hope he retires, so he can go as a Celtic. And I wish for you to respect that opinion, thanks.

Decline in relation to what? His body is holding up, his game is certainly timeless, and his stats are consistent. He is well on his way to his 11th all star game. Pierce is 9th in scoring in the league. The guy produces night-in and night-out. The only conclusion I can draw is you want to kick captain out of town for reasons unrelated to basketball.

As far as Celtics playing .500 ball this is nothing new. Doc Rivers teams tend to underperform in the regular season. C's will be playing in May/June. I can't predict a championship. But if things break Celtics way, Championship is in sight.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: PhoSita on December 15, 2012, 11:10:23 PM

  Imagine San Antonio's relief that Duncan (scoring a point a game less than Parker) isn't considered one of their top scoring options. This makes them much more viable contenders.

Tony Parker.

The Spurs can get by when Timmy can't score more than 10-12 points, because Tony is good for 20-30 points.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Change on December 19, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
Age is nothing but a number. Pierce is one greatest scorers in nba history.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Edgar on December 19, 2012, 10:10:19 PM
Well he still not deffending his chair... :P
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 19, 2012, 10:12:04 PM
not many players can do wat Pierce did tonight amazing game even tho "he looks old" he's still top 10 in da league in scorin swear yall are takin him for granted
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on December 19, 2012, 10:17:24 PM
not many players can do wat Pierce did tonight amazing game even tho "he looks old" he's still top 10 in da league in scorin swear yall are takin him for granted

they are. him and KG can still play and start. heck they can play even longer coming off the bench in later years believe it or not if they would want to do that .
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 19, 2012, 10:28:37 PM
not many players can do wat Pierce did tonight amazing game even tho "he looks old" he's still top 10 in da league in scorin swear yall are takin him for granted

they are. him and KG can still play and start. heck they can play even longer coming off the bench in later years believe it or not if they would want to do that .
both of them are still top 5 at their position at their age but u couldnt tell lookin at da forums sometimes lol
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rav123 on December 19, 2012, 10:41:18 PM
LOL @ thread. I wonder if he read this thread and it was the reason he was fired up to hang 40 (in 16 shots!) on the Cavs.

The team was always going to struggle initially - we've lost Ray, a big part of the team, and we've not dealt with it. Celtics are still running too many Ray sets even though JET isn't compatible. Haven't the starts to the past couple of seasons been poor too?

I think though that we have to give a long look at starting Jeff Green.

This isn't going to solve our problems one bit. If you look at Green's per36 stats, they've changed little in the 4 years he's been in the league. I really don't see why so many think there's some hidden potential there. He's just another mediocre tweener.


them much more viable contenders.Yes, just to expand on the point a little bit -- take a look at all of the top teams in the league.  What do they have in common?

Top scoring options:

OKC - Durant / Westbrook
Miami - LeBron / Wade
NY - Melo
SA - Parker

Those are the top two tiers of teams in the league so far this season.

Every last one of them depends on top scoring options who are, at most, 30-32 years old.  In most cases one of their primary options is 27-29.


  Imagine San Antonio's relief that Duncan (scoring a point a game less than Parker) isn't considered one of their top scoring options.

Yeah, he/she cherry-picked that one out his butt. Though to be fair, the point stands as the other examples are legit.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics18 on December 19, 2012, 10:50:02 PM
Great statement game by the Captain tonight.  The guy is obviously still an elite player. 

That was just stunning.  Stunning!  40 points on 16 field goal attempts, wow!  Not to mention 8 boards with 5 assists and only one turnover.

Let's keep him.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 19, 2012, 10:53:14 PM
Certainly a statement game by the Captain.

To be honest, though - we need some more scoring from other than Paul Pierce...this has been a concern of mine.

No one has seemed to been able to pick up much of the slack from ______ _________ leaving for MIA...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 19, 2012, 11:14:09 PM
Certainly a statement game by the Captain.

To be honest, though - we need some more scoring from other than Paul Pierce...this has been a concern of mine.

No one has seemed to been able to pick up much of the slack from ______ _________ leaving for MIA...
Pierce is gonna be averaging 20ppg dis year (predicted dat before da season) wat ur sayin is why i wanted us to get Jamal Crawford since he was a betta shot creator nd could take some of da scorin load off Pierce. after da preseason i was hopin Jeff Green could average 12-15 ppg to make things easier but dude be lookin half dead on da court sometimes smh
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics18 on December 19, 2012, 11:27:33 PM
Certainly a statement game by the Captain.

To be honest, though - we need some more scoring from other than Paul Pierce...this has been a concern of mine.

No one has seemed to been able to pick up much of the slack from ______ _________ leaving for MIA...
Pierce is gonna be averaging 20ppg dis year (predicted dat before da season) wat ur sayin is why i wanted us to get Jamal Crawford since he was a betta shot creator nd could take some of da scorin load off Pierce. after da preseason i was hopin Jeff Green could average 12-15 ppg to make things easier but dude be lookin half dead on da court sometimes smh

We've got scorers.  KG and Jet can both fill it up.  Yes, Jeff Green appears to be inconsistent and he seems to get lost in the game too easily, but he is another guy who can definitely catch fire.  And, of course, Rondo has proven that he can score in bunches when he's not too busy selfishly setting everybody else up.  Even Brandon can get it going on occasion.

We've got scorers.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 19, 2012, 11:35:51 PM
What... no trade him while his value is highest thread? Come on people.

Didnt look too old tonight.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 19, 2012, 11:38:01 PM
it's funny how all the pierce doubters are quiet and disappeared back into their rabbit hole...that tells me that you never played the game ...did you? i think the pierce doubters come out of the rabbit hole and cherry pick the capt's off games...one of the all-time celtic greats and playing at a near all-star level!
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ManUp on December 20, 2012, 01:44:24 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: CapnDunks on December 20, 2012, 01:53:28 AM
last 3
13/16
6/10
7/13
He's finding a groove and consistently getting to the line. Dudes gotta calm down.

Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: colincb on December 20, 2012, 02:35:09 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.
His PER is about average for the last 4 years before tonight's big game.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 20, 2012, 06:57:55 AM
I hope he bucks the trend.   One good game versus a couple of mediocre ones.   I think he has looked older this year but he certainly was vintage PP last night and hot.   

It was the Cavs and they are a young and bad team without their second best player.  I want to see this kind of performance when it matters not against a bottom tier team like CLE.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Vermont Green on December 20, 2012, 08:10:16 AM
Paul Pierce is still a very good player.  He is not at his hall of fame peak, but he is still a really good player.

Yeah, it was Cleveland, yeah Cle didn't have a key starter, yeah, it was after a period of not so great play, but it sure was nice to see him put up a game like that.

PP is still the man for this team to truly contend.  He can't do it alone, but without him somewhere near the top of his game, we are a 0.500 team.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: CelticsFanNC on December 20, 2012, 08:20:48 AM
   Paul Pierce is still a very good player.  He's not the player he was five years ago but nobody should expect him to be.

  The problem is we are still relying on him to be our primary scoring option night in and night out.  At his age with the miles on his legs he just cannot bring his A game night in and night out.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 20, 2012, 08:21:02 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

 I dont know why hes getting so much crap. he's shooting 44% from the field when his career average is 45% and he is hitting 38% of his threes when his career average is 37%. He is also 5th in the league in free throw attempts which means he is driving to the basket and getting to the line.

He's ninth in the league in scoring but we cant ask him to play the role of go to scorer?

To me, dat make a no sense.

On top of that he is averageing 5.5 rebound and 3.6 assists per game, right around his normal numbers and is having his third best season for TO's. Old yes. But even in a so called "bad" start to the season, Pierce is still among the leagues best without question.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: BballTim on December 20, 2012, 08:30:19 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

  Pierce isn't playing the same role he's been playing for the last 14 seasons. He's playing the same role he's been playing since KG and Ray showed up, which generally means carrying a smaller load on offense than he did in the past. That's why it was always clear that the window for this group was longer than the 3 or so years many predicted. Paul's scoring dropped by 5 ppg or so when the big three came together, Ray dropped by 9 ppg and KG dropped by 3-4 points and 3-4 rebounds a game. That smaller load would be easier to maintain as they aged.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Kane3387 on December 20, 2012, 09:59:45 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

 I dont know why hes getting so much crap. he's shooting 44% from the field when his career average is 45% and he is hitting 38% of his threes when his career average is 37%. He is also 5th in the league in free throw attempts which means he is driving to the basket and getting to the line.

He's ninth in the league in scoring but we cant ask him to play the role of go to scorer?

To me, dat make a no sense.

On top of that he is averageing 5.5 rebound and 3.6 assists per game, right around his normal numbers and is having his third best season for TO's. Old yes. But even in a so called "bad" start to the season, Pierce is still among the leagues best without question.

While it is clear he has lost a step I still see him as the 4th best SF in the game. I would put him ahead of Deng, Granger, Gay, and Igoudala.

So that means he is where he has been the last few years behind 'Bron, KD, and 'Melo.

Great point on his season and career averages. His demise has been greatly exaggerated and he and KG are playing about as well as one could realistically hope.

The unit as a whole is underperforming and it's making the individual pieces all look worse then they really are.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ManUp on December 20, 2012, 10:58:51 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

 I dont know why hes getting so much crap. he's shooting 44% from the field when his career average is 45% and he is hitting 38% of his threes when his career average is 37%. He is also 5th in the league in free throw attempts which means he is driving to the basket and getting to the line.

He's ninth in the league in scoring but we cant ask him to play the role of go to scorer?

To me, dat make a no sense.

On top of that he is averageing 5.5 rebound and 3.6 assists per game, right around his normal numbers and is having his third best season for TO's. Old yes. But even in a so called "bad" start to the season, Pierce is still among the leagues best without question.

43% after an amazing shooting night before last night it was 41%. IMO, shooting 43% or lower for a scorer puts you right there in chucker land. Pierce is still productive the problem is asking to score 20+ night is going to make him less efficient. I have not complaint's about Pierce's play. My only complaint is that we still count on him for too much in the scoring department, someone else has to help carry the load.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 20, 2012, 11:06:44 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

 I dont know why hes getting so much crap. he's shooting 44% from the field when his career average is 45% and he is hitting 38% of his threes when his career average is 37%. He is also 5th in the league in free throw attempts which means he is driving to the basket and getting to the line.

He's ninth in the league in scoring but we cant ask him to play the role of go to scorer?

To me, dat make a no sense.

On top of that he is averageing 5.5 rebound and 3.6 assists per game, right around his normal numbers and is having his third best season for TO's. Old yes. But even in a so called "bad" start to the season, Pierce is still among the leagues best without question.

43% after an amazing shooting night before last night it was 41%. IMO, shooting 43% or lower for a scorer puts you right there in chucker land. Pierce is still productive the problem is asking to score 20+ night is going to make him less efficient. I have not complaint's about Pierce's play. My only complaint is that we still count on him for too much in the scoring department, someone else has to help carry the load.

Exactly ^ If we depend on pierce to take us through the playoffs we won't get far.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 20, 2012, 11:15:20 AM
smh @ people trynna discredit 40 points on 80% shootin cuz "it was da cavs" unbelievable lol da same cavs dat beat da clippers nd lakers dis year huh? same cavs dat lost to Memphis nd Miami by 2 points? even tho they have a trash roster they compete wat Pierce did last night shouldnt be swept under da rug
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: BballTim on December 20, 2012, 11:32:13 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

 I dont know why hes getting so much crap. he's shooting 44% from the field when his career average is 45% and he is hitting 38% of his threes when his career average is 37%. He is also 5th in the league in free throw attempts which means he is driving to the basket and getting to the line.

He's ninth in the league in scoring but we cant ask him to play the role of go to scorer?

To me, dat make a no sense.

On top of that he is averageing 5.5 rebound and 3.6 assists per game, right around his normal numbers and is having his third best season for TO's. Old yes. But even in a so called "bad" start to the season, Pierce is still among the leagues best without question.

43% after an amazing shooting night before last night it was 41%. IMO, shooting 43% or lower for a scorer puts you right there in chucker land. Pierce is still productive the problem is asking to score 20+ night is going to make him less efficient. I have not complaint's about Pierce's play. My only complaint is that we still count on him for too much in the scoring department, someone else has to help carry the load.

  So if he has another couple of good shooting games and gets his fg% up over 43% he won't be in chucker land anymore?
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 20, 2012, 11:36:37 AM
What's really funny is that you think that acknowledging Pierce's obvious decline makes you a Pierce doubter. I love how everything and everyone must be labeled and grouped into some category on this site. Ok, on a hot shooting night he drops 40 on a bunch of bums, does that now mean we're supposed to forget the last 24 games? Fact of the matter is that you can't count on Pierce to carry heavy scoring loads on a regular basis any more. One hot game doesn't change that fact. He's having his second worst shooting season from the field and that's entirely because we're asking him to play the same role he has been the last 14 seasons like nothings changed.

 I dont know why hes getting so much crap. he's shooting 44% from the field when his career average is 45% and he is hitting 38% of his threes when his career average is 37%. He is also 5th in the league in free throw attempts which means he is driving to the basket and getting to the line.

He's ninth in the league in scoring but we cant ask him to play the role of go to scorer?

To me, dat make a no sense.

On top of that he is averageing 5.5 rebound and 3.6 assists per game, right around his normal numbers and is having his third best season for TO's. Old yes. But even in a so called "bad" start to the season, Pierce is still among the leagues best without question.

43% after an amazing shooting night before last night it was 41%. IMO, shooting 43% or lower for a scorer puts you right there in chucker land. Pierce is still productive the problem is asking to score 20+ night is going to make him less efficient. I have not complaint's about Pierce's play. My only complaint is that we still count on him for too much in the scoring department, someone else has to help carry the load.

  So if he has another couple of good shooting games and gets his fg% up over 43% he won't be in chucker land anymore?
like i said in ova threads anyone who's been watchin Pierce for years knos he plays his best ball later in da regular season especially March. his scorin nd percentages will increase belee dat
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 20, 2012, 11:56:28 AM
for all the pierce doubters...first...grow some cajones...go tell the capt the he is done and over the hill...to his face...then...come back to celtics blog and tell us...oh...that's right...you have no cajones...more to the point...when was the last time you dropped 40 in an nba game...scoreboard!
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: celtics2 on December 20, 2012, 11:58:28 AM
problem is we have no one to carry us anymore. This guy has given his life to the Celtics. He, Rondo and KG have been given very little to work with lately. 4 more players that we could count on and we'd be up there with the best. But we don't, they haven't been provided for whatever reason. It looks like Danny just really stepped in it with KG and Allen. Very little support since then. I don't blame Allen for leaving. The sump pump ain't working anymore and we're going down. Just wait for the 1st injury and see how thin we are.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 20, 2012, 12:05:59 PM
for all the pierce doubters...first...grow some cajones...go tell the capt the he is done and over the hill...to his face...then...come back to celtics blog and tell us...oh...that's right...you have no cajones...more to the point...when was the last time you dropped 40 in an nba game...scoreboard!
its crazy to me only on celtics blog will a performance like dis be looked down on cuz "it was the cavs" twitter is even worse Pierce gotta be da most disrespected player in da league they gonna miss him when he's gone tho
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 20, 2012, 12:18:09 PM
it seems like some of the most negative celtic fans are here on celtics blog...celtic pride and tradition is about bleeding green and loyalty...it seems like the fairweather fans here at celtic blog take pot shots from the peanut gallery...i don't ever rememeber hearing this garbage at the end of hondo's career or jo jo's or bird's or mchale's or chief's or dj's...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: TripleOT on December 20, 2012, 12:37:12 PM
Scoring 40 points on only 16 shots is an amazing feat at any age.  The question with older players like Pierce is whether they have the legs to come up big at the end of a grueling playoff series.

Against Lebron in 2008 when Pierce was younger, he did.  Last winter, he didn't.  It's conjecture whether PP didn't have the legs because he played too many minutes that season, or just had gotten old.

Father Time spares no one, unfortunately.  If Pierce can turn a game 7 performance this winter like he did to the Cavs in 2008, that would show that he's not too old.   
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: j804 on December 20, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
I'm convinced Pierce read this thread and erupted after a la KG and the Hawks owner mouthing off he's old  ;D
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: BballTim on December 20, 2012, 12:50:43 PM
Scoring 40 points on only 16 shots is an amazing feat at any age.  The question with older players like Pierce is whether they have the legs to come up big at the end of a grueling playoff series.

Against Lebron in 2008 when Pierce was younger, he did.  Last winter, he didn't.  It's conjecture whether PP didn't have the legs because he played too many minutes that season, or just had gotten old.

  Or because he had some type of knee injury he was playing through...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 20, 2012, 01:04:02 PM
The Capt

20.4 pts per game / 9th in the NBA
3.6 assts per game / 47th in the NBA
5.5 rebounds per game / 68th in the NBA

Compared to the 8 players above him in scoring:

.436 FG% / 7th tie
.388 3 PT % / 5th
.818 FT % / 5th
Assts / 9th
Rebounds / 4th

The only players with more pts, more assts and more rebounds than the Capt?

Lebron and Durant

Capt vs Lebron vs Durant head to head:

FG% / .426 to .537 to .519 / Capt ranks 3rd
3 PT % / .388 to .423 to .435 / Capt ranks 3rd
FT % / .818 to .679 to .900 / The Capt ranks 2nd

Pierce is still one of the top players in the NBA and still an All-Star!

Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 20, 2012, 01:28:14 PM
funny a 35 year old "washed up chucking" Paul Pierce is shootin da same % as James Harden who's 4th in da league in scorin at da moment
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Edgar on December 20, 2012, 02:08:03 PM
The Capt

20.4 pts per game / 9th in the NBA
3.6 assts per game / 47th in the NBA
5.5 rebounds per game / 68th in the NBA

Compared to the 8 players above him in scoring:

.436 FG% / 7th tie
.388 3 PT % / 5th
.818 FT % / 5th
Assts / 9th
Rebounds / 4th

The only players with more pts, more assts and more rebounds than the Capt?

Lebron and Durant

Capt vs Lebron vs Durant head to head:

FG% / .426 to .537 to .519 / Capt ranks 3rd
3 PT % / .388 to .423 to .435 / Capt ranks 3rd
FT % / .818 to .679 to .900 / The Capt ranks 2nd

Pierce is still one of the top OFFENSIVE players in the NBA and still an All-Star!

I fix that for you
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 20, 2012, 02:11:53 PM
lol...at least i took the time to back up my position instead of being lazy...anyone can copy and paste...btw...when did rebounding become considered offense...am i missing something...i expect the rhetorical rationalization
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 20, 2012, 03:59:54 PM
.436% is not that good folks in fact, for PP isn't that low?

His lowest since the Big Three Era.   He was shooting .46% the first year RA and KG got here.   He shot .497% last year.   Sorry but a six point drop off in FG% is huge folks no matter how you sugarcoat it that is a huge drop in his efficiency as a player.   Some of this is to be expected without Ray Allen though.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Edgar on December 20, 2012, 04:06:10 PM
lol...at least i took the time to back up my position instead of being lazy...anyone can copy and paste...btw...when did rebounding become considered offense...am i missing something...i expect the rhetorical rationalization

Theres no retorical rationalization

I do think he´s an All Star
I do think hes a top 5 offensive player
I do think hes good rebounding his position (size helps)
and I think hes not deffending a chair this season
the rationalization comes from watching a couple (like all) the games of the season
And yes due my lack of willingness (or time) or due the nice analysis why ruin it with more stats.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Roy H. on December 20, 2012, 04:06:20 PM
.436% is not that good folks in fact, for PP isn't that low?

His lowest since the Big Three Era.   He was shooting .46% the first year RA and KG got here.   He shot .497% last year.   Sorry but a six point drop off in FG% is huge folks no matter how you sugarcoat it that is a huge drop in his efficiency as a player.   Some of this is to be expected without Ray Allen though.

In terms of his efficiency (which takes into account three pointers with eFG%, and threes + FTs in TS%), Pierce is exactly where he was last year (.499 eFG% this year vs. .499 eFG% last year; .568 TS% vs. .567 TS% last year), and exactly in line with his career averages (.499 eFG%, .569 TS%).
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: BballTim on December 20, 2012, 04:10:47 PM
.436% is not that good folks in fact, for PP isn't that low?

His lowest since the Big Three Era.   He was shooting .46% the first year RA and KG got here.   He shot .497% last year.   Sorry but a six point drop off in FG% is huge folks no matter how you sugarcoat it that is a huge drop in his efficiency as a player.   Some of this is to be expected without Ray Allen though.

  He shot .497 two years ago, .443 last year. His pre-allstar numbers were worse than what he's putting up now, both fg% and 3fg%.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 20, 2012, 05:20:06 PM
just for good measure

blocks:

capt / 0.4
bron / 0.9
kd / 1.4

steals:

capt / 1.6
bron / 1.3
kd / 1.5

does this tell the whole story or defense...no...is it relevant...hmmm...yes...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: TripleOT on December 20, 2012, 05:51:41 PM
The fact that we can even compare stats with our mid-30s Pierce with the two brightest young stars in the league, who happen to play the same position, bodes well for us. Kevin Durant was in 5th grade when Pierce made his NBA debut. 
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: dark_lord on December 20, 2012, 05:54:50 PM
yes pierce has gotten old....what do you expect?  he is still playing at a high level, so it shouldn't be an issue.  if people are concerned with decline in production, it isn't pierce's fault...he can't beat father time.  it is ainge's fault for not having a transition or backup plan (unless jeff green was to fill that void  :-\ )
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 20, 2012, 06:29:43 PM
Quote
In terms of his efficiency (which takes into account three pointers with eFG%, and threes + FTs in TS%), Pierce is exactly where he was last year (.499 eFG% this year vs. .499 eFG% last year; .568 TS% vs. .567 TS% last year), and exactly in line with his career averages (.499 eFG%, .569 TS%).

You have to love these made up stats that they compile. 

He is shooting 6 points worse in FG%.  That makes him less efficient in my book.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 20, 2012, 07:02:34 PM
Quote
In terms of his efficiency (which takes into account three pointers with eFG%, and threes + FTs in TS%), Pierce is exactly where he was last year (.499 eFG% this year vs. .499 eFG% last year; .568 TS% vs. .567 TS% last year), and exactly in line with his career averages (.499 eFG%, .569 TS%).

You have to love these made up stats that they compile. 

He is shooting 6 points worse in FG%.  That makes him less efficient in my book.
but its 25 games in da season aint ova lol
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: scaryjerry on December 20, 2012, 07:04:02 PM
love pierce but of course this was bumped after his only great game of the season...he didn't magically get younger folks..this thread was justifiable.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: kozlodoev on December 20, 2012, 07:06:01 PM
Quote
In terms of his efficiency (which takes into account three pointers with eFG%, and threes + FTs in TS%), Pierce is exactly where he was last year (.499 eFG% this year vs. .499 eFG% last year; .568 TS% vs. .567 TS% last year), and exactly in line with his career averages (.499 eFG%, .569 TS%).

You have to love these made up stats that they compile. 

He is shooting 6 points worse in FG%.  That makes him less efficient in my book.
Because FG% is not a "made up" stat at all.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Roy H. on December 20, 2012, 07:10:19 PM
Quote
In terms of his efficiency (which takes into account three pointers with eFG%, and threes + FTs in TS%), Pierce is exactly where he was last year (.499 eFG% this year vs. .499 eFG% last year; .568 TS% vs. .567 TS% last year), and exactly in line with his career averages (.499 eFG%, .569 TS%).

You have to love these made up stats that they compile. 

He is shooting 6 points worse in FG%.  That makes him less efficient in my book.

So, in your eyes, somebody who shoots 50% and scores 8 points is more efficient thn somebody who shoots 40% and scores 12 points?

Comparing FG% without looking at where those shots are from and how many points they're generating makes no sense at all to me.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on December 20, 2012, 07:26:33 PM
love pierce but of course this was bumped after his only great game of the season...he didn't magically get younger folks..this thread was justifiable.
were u in a coma during his games against da Thunder, Mavs nd Bucks? u just gon act like he aint averaging 20ppg at 35 years old? some of yall treatin Pierce like he's Michael Finley at da end of his career
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 20, 2012, 07:33:57 PM
I misread a stat, I was clearly wrong my bad, sorry. 
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 20, 2012, 07:35:33 PM
The Capt

Last 5 games

36 min
.512 fg %
.517 3 pt %
.818 ft %
5.8 rebs
3.8 assts
0.6 blocks
2.6 stls
25.2 pts per game

Last 10 games

34.7 min
.458 fg %
5.3 rebs
4.6 assts
0.5 blocks
1.8 stls
21.5 pts per game
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: colincb on December 21, 2012, 05:47:51 PM
The Capt

Last 5 games

36 min
.512 fg %
.517 3 pt %
.818 ft %
5.8 rebs
3.8 assts
0.6 blocks
2.6 stls
25.2 pts per game

Last 10 games

34.7 min
.458 fg %
5.3 rebs
4.6 assts
0.5 blocks
1.8 stls
21.5 pts per game
Might as well throw in that his PER is currently higher than where it ended during the last 5 seasons. 1 good game doesn't get you there. Being 9th in the NBA in scoring will.  His defensive rating is 103 which is still above average and 3rd best on the team.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: dunisho on December 21, 2012, 06:17:21 PM
which weighs more? loyalty to a player or betterment of the team?

if the Celtics can get a player(s) who is younger, who fills the great need of the team and will make the team better in exchange for the celtic legend, will you do it?

If we can get a noah, a horford, or a marc gasol via trade with pierce leaving, and with free-agent-to-be josh smith looming, will you do it?  I will...and perhaps we can get smith via trade also for bass and lee as the hawks would not want to lose him for nothing via free agency ala-Cavs..

A noah/garnett/smith frontline will be scary defensively...and with rondo running the point, the celtics will be the team to beat...

We will forever be grateful for all you have done for the Celtics organization... Your legend will be passed on from generation to generation.... Your jersey will be waving from the rafters...but now, i think we have to let you go...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: colincb on December 21, 2012, 06:26:13 PM
which weighs more? loyalty to a player or betterment of the team?

if the Celtics can get a player(s) who is younger, who fills the great need of the team and will make the team better in exchange for the celtic legend, will you do it?

If we can get a noah, a horford, or a marc gasol via trade with pierce leaving, and with free-agent-to-be josh smith looming, will you do it?  I will...and perhaps we can get smith via trade also for bass and lee as the hawks would not want to lose him for nothing via free agency ala-Cavs..

A noah/garnett/smith frontline will be scary defensively...and with rondo running the point, the celtics will be the team to beat...

We will forever be grateful for all you have done for the Celtics organization... Your legend will be passed on from generation to generation.... Your jersey will be waving from the rafters...but now, i think we have to let you go...
Fantasies.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: scaryjerry on December 21, 2012, 07:21:36 PM
love pierce but of course this was bumped after his only great game of the season...he didn't magically get younger folks..this thread was justifiable.
were u in a coma during his games against da Thunder, Mavs nd Bucks? u just gon act like he aint averaging 20ppg at 35 years old? some of yall treatin Pierce like he's Michael Finley at da end of his career

true true...I love pierce man which is part of the reason I expect more...those were just good pierce games to me
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 08:02:37 PM
the capt vs milw

9 min and 20 sec

4-5 fg
1-1 3 pt
1-2 ft
3 reb
1 asst
1 stl
10 pts

where ya'll at, naysayers...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 08:06:02 PM
the capt is now 5/6 with 13 pts in 10 minutes and 32 seconds...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 08:22:10 PM
11 minutes and 20 secs
6/7
15 pts
4 rebs

Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: fitzhickey on December 21, 2012, 08:24:24 PM
Lol, wrong topic
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 08:28:39 PM
Paul Pierce
7-8, 17 Pts
4 Rebs, 1 Assists
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 08:38:08 PM
halftime
7-10, 17 Pts
4 Rebs, 2 Assists, 2 stls
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: albas89 on December 21, 2012, 08:38:42 PM
Paul Pierce
7-8, 17 Pts
4 Rebs, 1 Assists
Stop jinxing him... :P
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 08:39:27 PM
lol...ok...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: rutzan on December 21, 2012, 10:14:22 PM
13-22, 35 Pts
12 Rebs, 5 Assists
2 stls
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on December 21, 2012, 10:16:26 PM
13-22, 35 Pts
12 Rebs, 5 Assists
2 stls

nothing more he could do! this hurts...
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: ManUp on December 21, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Great game from him he couldn't have done anymore for the team. He's a great player and he knows how to score. I'm gonna stick to what I said in this thread though.
Title: Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
Post by: dysgenic on December 22, 2012, 01:58:38 PM
Paul Pierce is having one of the best seasons ever for a 35yr old player.  He is still an all-star and it's pretty amazing how well he is playing at this age.  Yes, he has lost a step defensively but over the past 5-10 games he has been MUCH better on D.