CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: chenaren on December 15, 2012, 01:28:09 AM
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I believe Rondo is a four-time NBA all-defensive team member. However, every time I watch the game this season, I feel Rondo's defense is nothing outstanding. Actually, I think it looks quite bad sometimes. Too lazy to keep up with his man, and too much gambling on stealing. What happened to Rondo? Can he find back his defense?
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this is an iffy topic. Sometimes he looks good out there. I think mostly he is saving his energy for rebounding, offense, and playoffs.
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I believe Rondo is a four-time NBA all-defensive team member. However, every time I watch the game this season, I feel Rondo's defense is nothing outstanding. Actually, I think it looks quite bad sometimes. Too lazy to keep up with his man, and too much gambling on stealing. What happened to Rondo? Can he find back his defense?
It's almost the same as it has always been. He lets his man inside, if he can make the opponent take a low percentage shot or even better create a turnover. This defensive scheme has been used by the Celtics for years. The problem is that we now play Bass, Sullinger or Wilcox in stead of Perkins or the O'Neals (or even Stiemsma), who are all pretty good rim protectors. And perhaps our opponents have read the book by now, and make their point guards pass to the open three point shooter in the corner in stead of going straight up against a big man. Either way, this is one of the reasons why we need a defensive minded big, who can play next to KG.
I'm not sure if Doc has changed the defense a bir, but it seems to me like Rondo actually stays in front of his man more of the time this season.
This is not to say, that Rondo doesn't have games where he saves his energy for the offense, rather than actually reading the opposing offense and play the best defense. He probably does.
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^very good point. we used to have enforcers that allowed rondo to risk take. he is simply following the old system hoping our help defense in the interior takes form.
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I believe Rondo is a four-time NBA all-defensive team member. However, every time I watch the game this season, I feel Rondo's defense is nothing outstanding. Actually, I think it looks quite bad sometimes. Too lazy to keep up with his man, and too much gambling on stealing. What happened to Rondo? Can he find back his defense?
It's almost the same as it has always been. He lets his man inside, if he can make the opponent take a low percentage shot or even better create a turnover. This defensive scheme has been used by the Celtics for years. The problem is that we now play Bass, Sullinger or Wilcox in stead of Perkins or the O'Neals (or even Stiemsma), who are all pretty good rim protectors. And perhaps our opponents have read the book by now, and make their point guards pass to the open three point shooter in the corner in stead of going straight up against a big man. Either way, this is one of the reasons why we need a defensive minded big, who can play next to KG.
I'm not sure if Doc has changed the defense a bir, but it seems to me like Rondo actually stays in front of his man more of the time this season.
This is not to say, that Rondo doesn't have games where he saves his energy for the offense, rather than actually reading the opposing offense and play the best defense. He probably does.
Nice. Said what's on my mind *but was never quite able to express*
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Never liked Rondo's defense, so no surprise here.
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rondo is good on D when he exerts himself. i have always thought he was over rated defensively.
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can we stop with these? rondo has good defensive qualities but has never been a lockdown defender and never will be. Avery Bradley helps this.
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Rondo either doesn't know or doesn't care.....he probably hasn't had to play D in his previous career......so just poking the ball out seens "good enough" to him. So, it falls on DOC to get him to see...run the film, show him how his letting the premier point guard of the other team fly past him...ruins our whole team D, the rest of the guys eother have to go to the driver, or let him layup....both losses..and for all rondos speed and agility, he CAN stay in front of his man.....this is on both doc and rondo......when a player is doing or not doing something that hurts the team..the COACH is supposed to fix it...!!!
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Rondo's gotta step up his D. He does a lot of good things that don't get mentioned enough (and are the reason he's always voted as a top defender), but we can't win with him getting beat off the dribble constantly.
When Bradley comes back and he can switch to defend the 2, I think things will get better. It looks like Rondo's issue on D is effort. On one hand I think he's gotta step it up, but on the other it's hard to kill him effort when he's logging crazy minutes and an extreme workload.
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he's disinterested in defense, so he has lapses -- lots of them.
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I know Rondo makes some highlite plays , but his bad mental effort , turnovers , ect is hurting the Celtics for strechs as much as he helps. He is playing TOO many minutes.
I blame Doc for playing Rondo to much. When Rondo starts that stand around dribbling looking for an assist , lookout here comes a turnover. something bad usually happens. I'm guessing he is tried. So Doc needs to MONITOR Rondo's energy better / mind set and insert Barbosa to give Rondo a break. ROndo seems to just BLANK OUT at somepoints in the game , either he is tired or just disinterested.
If Bradley play close to where he was last year , this could really EXPOSE the sloppy defense and play of Rondo.
Lee is playing so poor overall , that ROndo is being called on to play to much IMO.
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Rondo is playing too many minutes. His defense would improve his minutes went down.
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Rondo's gotta step up his D. He does a lot of good things that don't get mentioned enough (and are the reason he's always voted as a top defender), but we can't win with him getting beat off the dribble constantly.
When Bradley comes back and he can switch to defend the 2, I think things will get better. It looks like Rondo's issue on D is effort. On one hand I think he's gotta step it up, but on the other it's hard to kill him effort when he's logging crazy minutes and an extreme workload.
While I agree that Rondo steps up his defense in the playoffs, he doesn't constantly get beat off the dribble. Opponents use picks to get past him most of the time.
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Rondo's gotta step up his D. He does a lot of good things that don't get mentioned enough (and are the reason he's always voted as a top defender), but we can't win with him getting beat off the dribble constantly.
When Bradley comes back and he can switch to defend the 2, I think things will get better. It looks like Rondo's issue on D is effort. On one hand I think he's gotta step it up, but on the other it's hard to kill him effort when he's logging crazy minutes and an extreme workload.
While I agree that Rondo steps up his defense in the playoffs, he doesn't constantly get beat off the dribble. Opponents use picks to get past him most of the time.
Fair enough. He doesn't fight through picks at a consistent enough level and occasionally gets beat off the dribble. Basically, there are times he can do more to keep his body between his man in the basket.
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Rondo's gotta step up his D. He does a lot of good things that don't get mentioned enough (and are the reason he's always voted as a top defender), but we can't win with him getting beat off the dribble constantly.
When Bradley comes back and he can switch to defend the 2, I think things will get better. It looks like Rondo's issue on D is effort. On one hand I think he's gotta step it up, but on the other it's hard to kill him effort when he's logging crazy minutes and an extreme workload.
While I agree that Rondo steps up his defense in the playoffs, he doesn't constantly get beat off the dribble. Opponents use picks to get past him most of the time.
Fair enough. He doesn't fight through picks at a consistent enough level and occasionally gets beat off the dribble. Basically, there are times he can do more to keep his body between his man in the basket.
Even if you think he needs to fight through picks better, the guy he's covering will still get through first and have *his* body between Rondo and the basket. It's tough to defend from that position, although Rondo poking the ball from behind is probably as good as you'd get defensively. To stay between his man and the basket Rondo would need to go under the pick, the pick's defender could separate from his man and give Rondo room to go between them or the pick's defender could switch onto the ballhandler until Rondo recovers. They do the switch on occasion (they have been recently) but they generally do none of the above.
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Rondo is playing too many minutes. His defense would improve his minutes went down.
Can't wait until Doc trusts Terry more with back-up PG duties. I don't think Rondo and him together have been a good match. Defense isn't good with them together, and Rondo's offense doesn't make much good use of Terry. We're better off with Terry off the bench relieving Rondo's responsibilities for a time.
Didn't get to watch last night's game, but I saw Lee started, so that's a good sign. Hopefully it'll be the same today with Lee starting until Bradley comes, and we'll see from there what happens.
But yes, I'd like to see Rondo's minutes down, and I like him to play more at full speed in less minutes.
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like i stated many ova times i hate da reach around from behind defense he does. we all kno he's capable of stayin in front of his man but he'd rather gamble for steals leavin da big man rotations shaky
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Rondo's always been a trick-or-treat defensive player. If his from-behind pokes and passing-lane jumps are successful, he looks like a great ballhawk. But if they fail, he just gets burned.
I'll take Avery Bradley's style -- constant effort to stay in front of the defender and force a turnover with PRESSURE that leads to mistakes, not gambling.
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I think mediocre is being kind. His D has been bad more often than not.
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Rondo = the most overated defensive player in NBA History. Bradley should help hide his defeciencies a bit when he returns.
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The word is lazy, he was ELITE a few years ago but now he just takes possessions/games off completely.
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I agree that Rondo's D is looked mediocre right now. But he's a great defensive player, only when he CHOOSES to be be though. Back in the championship year, he got like 6 or 7 steals in game 6, or the time when he guarded Lebron 1 on 1. The point is he just gambles too much on D and not as aggressive as he was. Its more about mental thing for him but to question his defensive skills and say he's overrated is just ignorance.
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Rajon Rondo | Boston Celtics
Rondo is known for his long arms and massive hands, both of which have helped him pile up 843 career steals going into the 2012-13 season (which ranks second only to Chris Paul over the same six-year period). While those steals-related stats are impressive, there's evidence that Rondo's overall defensive impact hasn't lived up to his All-Defense reputation for several years.
Rondo's career counterpart PER of 15.6 doesn't tell the tale of an elite on-ball defender, and plus/minus data show a decline in performance within the team concept as well. Over Rondo's first four NBA seasons, the Celtics were 2.2 points of defensive rating better with him on the floor, including an incredible 8.3-point difference during Rondo's rookie season of 2006-07. Since the start of the 2010-11 season, however, that number has been flipped; over the past two seasons, Boston was actually 2.1 points per 100 possessions better when Rondo wasn't in the game.
The emergence of backup point guard Avery Bradley -- who posted a young-Rondo-esque minus-4.4 on/off defensive differential last year -- is certainly a mitigating circumstance, but like Noah, Rondo's plus/minus numbers aren't impressive even after accounting for the "good defensive backup" factor. According to regularized adjusted plus/minus, Rondo ranked tied for No. 46 among guards last season (in terms of defense), a far fall from the second-place ranking he held early in his career.
As Rondo has become more of the focal point in the offense it seems his defense suffered more and more. The guy only has so much energy.
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As Rondo has become more of the focal point in the offense it seems his defense suffered more and more. The guy only has so much energy.
I don't think that's it at all. For example, take a look at the Dallas game. Rondo really did a good job getting and staying in front of Mayo.
Mike
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so does everyone else's defense on this team?
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Rondo = the most overated defensive player in NBA History.
uh yeah calm down
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Rondo = the most overated defensive player in NBA History. Bradley should help hide his defeciencies a bit when he returns.
cp3 is most overrated
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Rajon Rondo | Boston Celtics
Rondo is known for his long arms and massive hands, both of which have helped him pile up 843 career steals going into the 2012-13 season (which ranks second only to Chris Paul over the same six-year period). While those steals-related stats are impressive, there's evidence that Rondo's overall defensive impact hasn't lived up to his All-Defense reputation for several years.
Rondo's career counterpart PER of 15.6 doesn't tell the tale of an elite on-ball defender, and plus/minus data show a decline in performance within the team concept as well. Over Rondo's first four NBA seasons, the Celtics were 2.2 points of defensive rating better with him on the floor, including an incredible 8.3-point difference during Rondo's rookie season of 2006-07. Since the start of the 2010-11 season, however, that number has been flipped; over the past two seasons, Boston was actually 2.1 points per 100 possessions better when Rondo wasn't in the game.
The emergence of backup point guard Avery Bradley -- who posted a young-Rondo-esque minus-4.4 on/off defensive differential last year -- is certainly a mitigating circumstance, but like Noah, Rondo's plus/minus numbers aren't impressive even after accounting for the "good defensive backup" factor. According to regularized adjusted plus/minus, Rondo ranked tied for No. 46 among guards last season (in terms of defense), a far fall from the second-place ranking he held early in his career.
As Rondo has become more of the focal point in the offense it seems his defense suffered more and more. The guy only has so much energy.
That's kind of a hatchet piece. Rondo's opposing PER for the last 2 years (before this year) were like 13 and 11, so the guy ignores that and only talks about his career average. He wanted to use the stat to make Rondo look bad when he was clearly aware of how good Rondo's numbers had been the last few years, so he somehow left that info out of his article.