CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: crownontherocks on December 14, 2012, 08:23:12 PM
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As of tomorrow, NBA teams can trade many of the free agents that were signed in the offseason. So rumor season is about to heat up big time. Here's your first Celtics related rumor.
NBA -- Top trade targets - ESPN
In terms of those 108 offseason signees who become trade-eligible Saturday, at least three names are coming up repeatedly on the personnel grapevine: Indiana's D.J. Augustin, Phoenix's Michael Beasley and Boston's Courtney Lee. There's a reason for that, though: All three are seriously struggling.
Lee has struggled at times and the Celtics expect to get Avery Bradley back shortly. So there's really no surprise that his name would come up.
Still, it seems a bit early to make a judgement on Lee's fit here in Boston.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/12/14/3768358/rumor-celtics-repeatedly-shopping-courtney-lee
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not surprised. with the way he's shooting and playing, you would to. I mean, theres games he gets 0 pts and its expected now.
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
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Was wondering why he's starting... makes sense.
I thought he'd be safe because we jumped through all those hoops to get him.
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
;D
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
that deal would work for me. KG back to PF. Wilcox and Sully as the primary bigs off the bench would be ok. Green in spot duty at PF. Use Collins in case of emergency.
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
that deal would work for me. KG back to PF. Wilcox and Sully as the primary bigs off the bench would be ok. Green in spot duty at PF. Use Collins in case of emergency.
Too bad Phoenix unlikely to do it. They could get more from someone else IMO.
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Who knows if it's true. I don't think Lee's play is a problem - he's our best defensive perimeter player, and OK on the offense, save the low 3 pt percentage.
Bigger issue is the surplus of guys who can play 1 and 2: Rondo, Terry, Barbosa, Bradley, Lee, and even Paul when Green goes to 3. So the brass might be looking for a way to parlay some of that excess into a guy who can help with the interior D.
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
;D
Wake up, kids. You've got the dreamers disease.
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Was wondering why he's starting... makes sense.
I thought he'd be safe because we jumped through all those hoops to get him.
I like how he started tonight. I thought he played well. I like him starting more than Terry. Terry is a career 6th man (one of the best of all time) I like him in that role.
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We will see what happens. I could see something going down as soon as next week. We really need someone to come in and be a rebounder on this team. If we had that we would be alright. It would be huge on this team. To get stops and be able to get the board. Instead of giving up 2nd and 3rd chances. I hope something happens soon.
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We will see what happens. I could see something going down as soon as next week. We really need someone to come in and be a rebounder on this team. If we had that we would be alright. It would be huge on this team. To get stops and be able to get the board. Instead of giving up 2nd and 3rd chances. I hope something happens soon.
We're 5th in the league in defensive rebounding. Most teams give up more 2nd and 3rd chances than we do.
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But we seem to give up big rebounds at bad times.. We are an older team we need a younger rebounder to come in and bang. Tonight we were down 6 and 8 with about 4 minutes to go and we gave up some big offensive rebounds and if we get those we get ourselves back in the game. I just think our biggest need is a guy who can grab boards and protect the rim and we would be a much better team.
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How much is his trade value right now anyways? I bet it's a little low the way he's playing. He's still playing solid defense but the shooting woes would not help Lee's trade value.
I'm sorry to say this, but in order for us to land a big name, Avery Bradley is the one teams are going to ask.
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Can J.J. Hickson be had? I know he was traded to Sactown but was he released? So he cant be traded. Isn't that how that works? Would love to have him. AVG. 11ppg 10rpg. Athletic and only 24.
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I love Lee. I'd feel terrible if we do trade him. Whether he took a paycut or not, he chose the C's.
But I'd understand it if Ainge traded him.
But I think certainly he could prove himself with time.
So I wouldn't mind it either way. I think he'll get better with a little more time. Would be sad if he left though.
Jason Thompson would also be nice seeing that JJ Hickson was mentioned.
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Trade whoever except PIERCE KG RONDO TERRY BRADLEY GREEN.
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if Avery Bradley comes back and looks like he did for much of last year, Lee really becomes the odd-man out here IMO...and if we could move him for a quality big then Im for it...
Bradley/Terry are going to Eat up alot of minutes..and im not sure where minutes are going to come from for lee.
you also have Barbosa...so that is 4 rotation level Shooting guards
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Repeatedly is the key word here and will continue to be so. I always wonder what it is about players that people don't seem to understand. You ever see a player like Melo or KG play like garbage for a 20 game period? ok then. There is your answer on what kind of player we have to trade. See ya in France, Lee.
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Lee + Collins to Minny
Ridnour + Stiemsma to Boston
With Rubio back in Minnesota and Bradley in Boston this could really help both teams
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Jason Thompson is just pure garbage. Stay well away lol.
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Repeatedly is the key word here and will continue to be so. I always wonder what it is about players that people don't seem to understand. You ever see a player like Melo or KG play like garbage for a 20 game period? ok then. There is your answer on what kind of player we have to trade. See ya in France, Lee.
Melo is a superstar and KG is a future HOF'er. Lee is not. He wasn't brought in here because they thought he was going to be an All-Star. He was brought in for his defense, 3 point shooting, hustle, and because he has experience in big games.
People need to stop expecting the world from this kid. Ainge overpaid for him, we knew that from the beginning. No team will want his contract anyway. A lot more pieces would have to be in play.
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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.
I very much like our team as is, I don't get the fascination with some sort of "major" shake-up. A few tweaks here and there, which can mostly be accomplish with Bradley returning and some vet. min. pick-ups, and we should be golden.
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Lee + Collins to Minny
Ridnour + Stiemsma to Boston
With Rubio back in Minnesota and Bradley in Boston this could really help both teams
I was thinking that Minny looks like a good fit as a trade partner for us, too. Exactly right that with Rubio coming back for them that they're flush with PGs, and with Bradley returning for us, we're flush with SGs. They'd probably prefer to get rid of Barea since he's got 3 years on his contract instead of Ridnour, who's got 2. Still, I don't know why they'd want to take on 4 years of an overpaid Lee. I just can't imagine there'd be that much interest in Lee at 5M per for the bulk of 4 more years. He's not worth that much.
Barea (or Ridnour) are more productive than Lee, and Stiemer is more productive than Collins, so I suspect we'd need to add a sweetener to the pot to get them to bite.
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it'd make for a funny bump to see those Courtney Lee threads from the summer...I thought we were getting a prime Michael Jordan?
Lee stinks...
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Trade whoever except PIERCE KG RONDO TERRY BRADLEY GREEN.
TP exactly, the players should never trade
The guy I want to come from a trade is anyone servicable center over 6'11"
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its hard to let good guys go. Lee has a good ethic and plays hard , but the results come to seldom . I like his defensive energy . I was hoping he was going to be another Bradley. or close.
I think , hard as its going to be , for the BOSTON CELTICS to get back on top. Several guy and maybe a really valuable player or two are going to have to be traded to infuse the energy and quality needed. Starting with a "QUALITY" big who can get 10-12 rebounds a game , and provide a defensive force in the paint to help KG.
I see three directions.
1) keep ROndo, Green and trade other assets for J SMith .or Verajao
2) trade Rondo /assets for a franchise type BIG.
3) keep the team as is and be satisfied with a trip to the playoffs.( FINGERS CROSSED) :-X
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Who are we shopping Lee for? I like him as a player and will miss him if he goes, but if we can get back a quality big with an interior defensive presence and competent offensive skills...we have to.
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if Avery Bradley comes back and looks like he did for much of last year, Lee really becomes the odd-man out here IMO...and if we could move him for a quality big then Im for it...
Bradley/Terry are going to Eat up alot of minutes..and im not sure where minutes are going to come from for lee.
you also have Barbosa...so that is 4 rotation level Shooting guards
Agreed. If Bradley stays healthy there is really no use for Lee. The question is what can we actually get for him? I think we may have to package him with Melo and picks to get anything decent. We probably have a better chance of trading Bass plus Melo and picks though.
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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.
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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.
In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.
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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.
I think Jeff Green and Paul Pierce can defend big wings better than Courtney Lee can.
The big power two guards in the league right now ... none of them have great quickness. You can play a Jeff Green or Paul Pierce against them. You don't need a quicker defender like C-Lee against them.
- Stephen Jackson plays the three exclusively these days. He's gone.
- Joe Johnson has SF level speed. Paul Pierce has done an excellent job on JJ in the past.
- Kobe Bryant is the most athletic of them and he's not a good athlete. Kobe has also destroyed Courtney Lee in the past. Paul Pierce is our best defensive option against Kobe.
- Andre Iguodala is the only one with high level quickness / athleticism. Not a great scorer anyways.
- Tyreke Evans has the size but lacks a power game. More of a dribble penetrator. A guard like Bradley or Rondo can do a good job on Tyreke.
- Gordon Hayward hasn't added a power game yet either. Plus, he struggles mightily as a defender/rebounder against big wings with size so Pierce / Green cause him lots of issues on the other end.
- Klay Thompson and Rip Hamilton are long but mostly run through screens for catch and shoot situations. I can live with Bradley against them. Kevin Martin is a more well-rounded scorer but fits a similar mold as them in terms of matchup issues. I think Bradley can handle them.
- Jason Richardson has lost a lot of quickness over the last few years and can be dealt with by a SF like Pierce or Green. That SF will create an advantage over J-Rich on the other end.
There is no reason for Courtney Lee to play ahead of Bradley/Rondo or Pierce/Green. The Celtics can matchup effectively, very often in superior way, by using a smaller defender or bigger defender than Lee to handle the various matchups at the SG position.
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Courtney Lee doesn't even matchup that well against bigger power two guards. He lacks the size/bulk to handle them. He has regularly struggled against them throughout his career. Orlando, New Jersey, Houston. Consistent problems against bigger two guards. C-Lee is not an answer against them. Just because he is 2 inches bigger than Bradley doesn't mean he can do the job. He's never (consistently) shown that capacity.
I think Courtney Lee's main value is against smaller quicker guards like Monta Ellis or Eric Gordon and explosive guards with average size like D-Wade or James Harden. But again, Bradley matches up even better against those quicker twos than C-Lee does.
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No reason to do anything until we see what Bradley brings to the table.
I don't know whether to believe this rumor or not, but even if it's true, as we all know Danny will kick the tires on about 500 deals between now and the deadline, including some involving just about every other player on the team. This is normal.
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the problem with our defense doesnt start with our bigs, it starts with our GUARDS...Rondo/Terry cant stay in front of anyone. and Lee does on a limited basis.
people neglect the fact that when your guards allow so much dribble penetration, and guys to race down the floor in transition it puts your bigs in a position to have to STEP UP.
and when they do that leaves their man open.
I'm interested to see how the defense looks once Bradley gets back. because if he can keep his guy in front of him, and his ball pressure takes 15seconds off the clock then our defense looks totally different.
people forget this defense was one of the best in the NBA last year with practically the same lineup...the only difference is the absence of Avery bradley and our guards are porous.
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Anthony Randolph anyone? He's gotta be cheap at this point, and languishing on somebodys bench..
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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.
I very much like our team as is, I don't get the fascination with some sort of "major" shake-up. A few tweaks here and there, which can mostly be accomplish with Bradley returning and some vet. min. pick-ups, and we should be golden.
Yeah Courtney lee's prototypical shooting guard size has done nothing to make us less vunerable...Hes 6'5 but hes soft and average.
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Anthony Randolph anyone? He's gotta be cheap at this point, and languishing on somebodys bench..
I wanted him a couple years ago. He has very interesting talent, but I don't think he is the power player that we need.
I'm very surprised Randolph hasn't really improved since his rookie year, when I thought he would be a star some day.
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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.
In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.
I'd consider Gooden for Lee. Gooden is a good rebounder with decent shooting range, he would fit in well. I read a comment somewhere on celticsblog that him and Doc don't like each other. Is there any truth to that?
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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.
In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.
I'd consider Gooden for Lee. Gooden is a good rebounder with decent shooting range, he would fit in well. I read a comment somewhere on celticsblog that him and Doc don't like each other. Is there any truth to that?
As Tommy has said, Gooden always seems to be productive when he plays, but it's weird how he always falls out of favor very quickly on every team he plays on.
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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.
In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.
I don't think that adding another power forward is the answer. Plus he's signed for quite a while. Dalembert makes the same money...
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to get a player worth the effort have to give up some of our better players.
Gortat is the "LOWEST" caliber player I'd trade for, anybody that makes less impact is probally not worth the effort.
Rondo, Lee , Sully , AB , Bass , Green , Melo,Joseph are the type of players that will have to be given up to get an impact BIG man or Center. DOn't think KG, JET or PP are on the table period this year.
If we lose a bunch of the next 11 games... I think Danny goes hard for J.Smith, Varejao,or Cousins and TRIES to keep Rondo. If the team looks ALOT better with Avery B....Danny may make a go for Gortat.
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to get a player worth the effort have to give up some of our better players.
Gortat is the "LOWEST" caliber player I'd trade for, anybody that makes less impact is probally not worth the effort.
I would happily trade Lee (with maybe a draft pick thrown in) for a big who would be a clear upgrade over Wilcox.
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to get a player worth the effort have to give up some of our better players.
Gortat is the "LOWEST" caliber player I'd trade for, anybody that makes less impact is probally not worth the effort.
I would happily trade Lee (with maybe a draft pick thrown in) for a big who would be a clear upgrade over Wilcox.
Me too
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I can't imagine Courtney Lee has too much trade value around the league right now.
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I don't think it really has anything to do with how good/bad Lee is playing. Lee's our biggest salary chip right now if you're not including any of our 3 best players. He makes 5 mil...
So OBVIOUSLY he's the one we're shopping. Including him in a trade is essentially our ONLY option right now if we want to take back a player making over 5 million. Bass and Green both can't be traded until Jan 15th and it's harder to trade Jason Terry at this point.
You could target Gortat (who makes 7 mil) by offering Lee + melo or Lee + Sully or Lee + Sully and Melo... and lots of draft picks.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3yh5gc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c54o778
There's also the hilarious tattoo-related option of trading Lee AND Jet (combined 10 mil) + the young bigs and going after a player making 10+ million like Josh Smith, that that's pretty unlikely. Honestly, I wouldn't care about trading Jet and Lee if Avery Bradley is as great as everyone here seems to think he is. I think Barbosa off the bench will be just as effective as Jet off the bench.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cojakqk
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c26u6te
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I don't think it really has anything to do with how good/bad Lee is playing. Lee's our biggest salary chip right now if you're not including any of our 3 best players. He makes 5 mil...
So OBVIOUSLY he's the one we're shopping. Including him in a trade is essentially our ONLY option right now if we want to take back a player making over 5 million. Bass and Green both can't be traded until Jan 15th and it's harder to trade Jason Terry at this point.
You could target Gortat (who makes 7 mil) by offering Lee + melo or Lee + Sully or Lee + Sully and Melo... and lots of draft picks.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3yh5gc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c54o778
There's also the hilarious tattoo-related option of trading Lee AND Jet (combined 10 mil) + the young bigs and going after a player making 10+ million like Josh Smith, that that's pretty unlikely. Honestly, I wouldn't care about trading Jet and Lee if Avery Bradley is as great as everyone here seems to think he is. I think Barbosa off the bench will be just as effective as Jet off the bench.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cojakqk
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c26u6te
So, unless we are trading Terry in addition to Lee, Lee is the ballast?
Essentially, at that point the trade is more about Sully/Melo/picks/etc.. for Gortat or such. I'd be hard pressed to see us getting much more than Gortat at best for an offer like that.
Adding Terry would be something only a team contending would be interested in. A three team trade might work, depending on how valuable Terry is seen as, and whether or not that team has any value to send out.
I don't think any of the 4 proposals had enough talent going out, or at least talent the other team would be interested in.
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Was wondering why he's starting... makes sense.
I thought he'd be safe because we jumped through all those hoops to get him.
we didn't give up much for him - JJJ is out of the league, ETwaun was cut, and they got that early 2nd round pick.
I was never excited about Lee. When a guy plays for 4 teams his first 5 years in the league, he simply is not that good.
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Lee sign a 5 year deal right? Dont know who will take that on..
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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.
I think Jeff Green and Paul Pierce can defend big wings better than Courtney Lee can.
The big power two guards in the league right now ... none of them have great quickness. You can play a Jeff Green or Paul Pierce against them. You don't need a quicker defender like C-Lee against them.
- Stephen Jackson plays the three exclusively these days. He's gone.
- Joe Johnson has SF level speed. Paul Pierce has done an excellent job on JJ in the past.
- Kobe Bryant is the most athletic of them and he's not a good athlete. Kobe has also destroyed Courtney Lee in the past. Paul Pierce is our best defensive option against Kobe.
- Andre Iguodala is the only one with high level quickness / athleticism. Not a great scorer anyways.
- Tyreke Evans has the size but lacks a power game. More of a dribble penetrator. A guard like Bradley or Rondo can do a good job on Tyreke.
- Gordon Hayward hasn't added a power game yet either. Plus, he struggles mightily as a defender/rebounder against big wings with size so Pierce / Green cause him lots of issues on the other end.
- Klay Thompson and Rip Hamilton are long but mostly run through screens for catch and shoot situations. I can live with Bradley against them. Kevin Martin is a more well-rounded scorer but fits a similar mold as them in terms of matchup issues. I think Bradley can handle them.
- Jason Richardson has lost a lot of quickness over the last few years and can be dealt with by a SF like Pierce or Green. That SF will create an advantage over J-Rich on the other end.
There is no reason for Courtney Lee to play ahead of Bradley/Rondo or Pierce/Green. The Celtics can matchup effectively, very often in superior way, by using a smaller defender or bigger defender than Lee to handle the various matchups at the SG position.
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Courtney Lee doesn't even matchup that well against bigger power two guards. He lacks the size/bulk to handle them. He has regularly struggled against them throughout his career. Orlando, New Jersey, Houston. Consistent problems against bigger two guards. C-Lee is not an answer against them. Just because he is 2 inches bigger than Bradley doesn't mean he can do the job. He's never (consistently) shown that capacity.
I think Courtney Lee's main value is against smaller quicker guards like Monta Ellis or Eric Gordon and explosive guards with average size like D-Wade or James Harden. But again, Bradley matches up even better against those quicker twos than C-Lee does.
All true, yet it would still remain a problem without the additional wing with size. Bring Bradley in, and remove Lee, and we still have the same roster problem we have at the moment, in part because we don't have another player capable of playing minutes as a SF.
And having a sixth man like Terry at hand, we need someone like Lee to complement him off the bench.
I have no problem with Pierce as a SG, in fact, I love him there, but I don't can't envision a scenario at the moment in which we can play him and Green together in substantial minutes without playing him into the ground.
Also, in no shape or form should my post should be construed as Lee rather than Bradley thing. I think we need both. Our roster make-up just calls for it, and in my opinion not much room for Barbosa other than some spot minutes when nothing is going to plan.
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I don't think it really has anything to do with how good/bad Lee is playing. Lee's our biggest salary chip right now if you're not including any of our 3 best players. He makes 5 mil...
So OBVIOUSLY he's the one we're shopping. Including him in a trade is essentially our ONLY option right now if we want to take back a player making over 5 million. Bass and Green both can't be traded until Jan 15th and it's harder to trade Jason Terry at this point.
You could target Gortat (who makes 7 mil) by offering Lee + melo or Lee + Sully or Lee + Sully and Melo... and lots of draft picks.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3yh5gc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c54o778
There's also the hilarious tattoo-related option of trading Lee AND Jet (combined 10 mil) + the young bigs and going after a player making 10+ million like Josh Smith, that that's pretty unlikely. Honestly, I wouldn't care about trading Jet and Lee if Avery Bradley is as great as everyone here seems to think he is. I think Barbosa off the bench will be just as effective as Jet off the bench.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cojakqk
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c26u6te
So, unless we are trading Terry in addition to Lee, Lee is the ballast?
Essentially, at that point the trade is more about Sully/Melo/picks/etc.. for Gortat or such. I'd be hard pressed to see us getting much more than Gortat at best for an offer like that.
Adding Terry would be something only a team contending would be interested in. A three team trade might work, depending on how valuable Terry is seen as, and whether or not that team has any value to send out.
I don't think any of the 4 proposals had enough talent going out, or at least talent the other team would be interested in.
I don't think those trades had enough talent going out either. In the case of Utah they'd want a PG back if they are getting rid a big. You'd have to include draft picks and probably involve a 3rd team. But the point I was making is that you HAVE to include Lee if you want to take back salary. It's literally the only possible way (until Jan 15th) to even begin to discuss trades.
I guess I say that simply because I can't see the team moving Terry. But honestly I wouldn't mind trading Terry. I also wouldn't necessarily mind trading Bradley as a "piece" of a large trade. But I'm the minority on that one... I envision a starting lineup of Rondo, Pierce at SG and Jeff Green at SF... so even if we're left with only Barbosa off the bench, I don't think it really hurts us all that much if we're making a big improvement to our starting lineup at the bigs.
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Courtney Lee = fools gold
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Some of you guys crack me up. Lee pretty much stinks. You know what kind of players you can get in return? Another player that stinks.
Seriously, if we want an impact big (not a star), we likely need to give up Avery AND Sully. And that might not be enough.
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Some of you guys crack me up. Lee pretty much stinks. You know what kind of players you can get in return? Another player that stinks.
Seriously, if we want an impact big (not a star), we likely need to give up Avery AND Sully. And that might not be enough.
I think we could get a high impact big by moving Avery Bradley.
ie Avery+Bass+Melo for Gortat.
Or Sully, Bass and a pick etc.
We probably don't need to send both Bradley and Sully to get Gortat. Just depends what other teams are offering as well.
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why is he starting? we lose when he starts. poor kid is garbage
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Don't see anything happening for a while....trade deadline still months away, and we probably won't be the same team then as now (could we be much worse!?).
I don't see Lee as a problem, though could also see him getting moved, with the potential logjam at the 2. I actually like him - solid defender, hustles, is trying to penetrate more than he has in the past - just not connecting on his 3s....yet.
I think the far bigger problem is all around lousy defense, and you could probably point the finger at everyone not named KG. The perimeter guys let opponents wiz by into the lane, leave plenty of others open behind the arc, and the bigs just miss rotation after rotation inside....I can't remember giving up so many inside shots since the early days of Big Al....
Can we trade Lee for Thibs?
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I don't think we can trade Jason Terry. He went out and got his own no-trade clause tattooed on his left bicep.
http://celticshub.com/2012/08/15/jason-terry-shows-off-his-new-celtics-tattoo-talks-about-next-season/
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
that deal would work for me. KG back to PF. Wilcox and Sully as the primary bigs off the bench would be ok. Green in spot duty at PF. Use Collins in case of emergency.
Too bad Phoenix unlikely to do it. They could get more from someone else IMO.
then give them Green and keep Bass here - at least you know what you are going to get from him every night and he doesn't shy away from a fight.
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bass, lee, melo for gortat. ;D
i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
that deal would work for me. KG back to PF. Wilcox and Sully as the primary bigs off the bench would be ok. Green in spot duty at PF. Use Collins in case of emergency.
Too bad Phoenix unlikely to do it. They could get more from someone else IMO.
then give them Green and keep Bass here - at least you know what you are going to get from him every night and he doesn't shy away from a fight.
They have Beasley. I KNOW they want to move him, but they might not be able to. Assuming they can't he and Green are too redundant.
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why is he starting? we lose when he starts. poor kid is garbage
If you think Lee is the problem, think again.
Mike
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Lee is not the problem - trying to fit him into Ray Allen's mold is the problem. Let Lee be Lee
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Frankly, neither Lee nor Terry are in my armchair-coach 9-player rotation with Bradley back. Barbosa has outplayed them both to my armchair eye.
Starters:
Rondo
Pierce
Green
Sully (we hope)
KG
We basically run two linupes: a Pierce/KG lineup and one without them. Pierce starts getting the KG 5-minute treatment.
Bradley and Wilcox are primary subs for Pierce and KG.
Pierce returns to sub for Green, and splits SF time with him (but starts at SG and gets some time at the wing next to Green-go big!).
Bass gets minutes as bench utility big.
Barbosa gets some guard minutes (having beat out Lee and Terry in my eye).
And I think if I wanted another wing around mid-season, I think I might just as well go with Kris Joseph.
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why is he starting? we lose when he starts. poor kid is garbage
If you think Lee is the problem, think again.
Mike
I really don't think he's the problem...he just doesn't help any of the problems...often times he makes them worse
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My problem here is if the Celtics are truly unhappy with Lee just 2 months into the season, then why did they sign him in the first place?
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My problem here is if the Celtics are truly unhappy with Lee just 2 months into the season, then why did they sign him in the first place?
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/gameon/2012/10/20/usp-nba_-preseason-detroit-pistons-at-miami-heat-3_4_r560.jpg?f061b7ce9937c38b702e6f308816ac2a14e2a4ec)
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Trading a young guard on an affordable contract who has a history of being a serviceable starter on good teams after 2 months of inconsistent play on a new team seems like a really good way to get 60 cents on the dollar.
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Trading a young guard on an affordable contract who has a history of being a serviceable starter on good teams after 2 months of inconsistent play on a new team seems like a really good way to get 60 cents on the dollar.
Probably true, if a trade absolutely has to be made, which it probably doesn't.
I like him, generally, but don't think he's done what he needed to do in his first two months: make himself necessary.
Especially since Doc has shown a willingness to play Bradley at either guard spot. That leaves 3rd guard available, and Terry is terrible at defense.
And the whole thing should be a perfect fit for Lee, an alleged top defender, spot-up shooter, and slasher. Perhaps there's a sense that if he was the right guy, he would've shown more than he has.
But in terms of being on a cheap contract, I don't think $5M is going to be considered cheap any more, and he has several years. And if he doesn't have that value to us, he has no value at all, frankly. He's probably close to worthless, mere salary filler.
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My problem here is if the Celtics are truly unhappy with Lee just 2 months into the season, then why did they sign him in the first place?
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/gameon/2012/10/20/usp-nba_-preseason-detroit-pistons-at-miami-heat-3_4_r560.jpg?f061b7ce9937c38b702e6f308816ac2a14e2a4ec)
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! A PIC OF SUGAR RAY FINALLY BACK ON THIS BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We miss u Ray... dearly... come back!
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That is Benedict Arnold not Sugar Ray right?
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It's not like the Cs gave up a king's ransom to get Lee. They traded a bust late first round draft pick, which was a net gain, since they didn't have to give him his guaranteed $1m this season, 3rd/4th PG ET Moore, and a second round pick.
If the Cs can package Lee and Green and picks for someone like Al Jefferson, I'm all for it. Guys like Lee can be picked up every summer, for the MLE or in many cases less. JR Smith signed for $2.5m this summer, Mayo for $4m, RA for $3m, Belinelli for $2m, CJ Miles for $2m, Grant Hill for $2m, etc etc. It's easy to get a bench SG as a FA for cheap money.
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That is Benedict Arnold not Sugar Ray right?
Benedict Allen
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My problem here is if the Celtics are truly unhappy with Lee just 2 months into the season, then why did they sign him in the first place?
They signed him to plug a hole in the roster until Bradley returns, and it's just about time for Bradley to return. Truth is, there is not much playing time left for Lee after Terry and Bradley get theirs. He's the odd man out.
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They can shop him all they want, but like Jeff Green, I doubt he has much value to other teams at the moment.
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They can shop him all they want, but like Jeff Green, I doubt he has much value to other teams at the moment.
I'm sure we can get someone like Gooden or Dalembert for him.
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I think the rumors will start to fly this week. It seems a lot of teams are looking to deal and I am sure some of our guys will be thrown around. I am willing to do anything that makes this team better outside of trading Rondo Pierce KG Jeff and AB. I do feel like a package of something containing Bass Melo Sully Wilcox Lee and picks would net us something that would help ASAP. Also to look into getting a third team involved because I think those are the pieces Danny wants to move and not every team is going to wanna take a bunch of PF's. Maybe something happens this week but i gurantee the rumors start picking up tomorrow.
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My problem here is if the Celtics are truly unhappy with Lee just 2 months into the season, then why did they sign him in the first place?
Because the Celtic's time machine was broken and they laid off their psychic.
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Who knows if it's true. I don't think Lee's play is a problem - he's our best defensive perimeter player, and OK on the offense, save the low 3 pt percentage.
The statistics I've seen suggest otherwise. Among our currently active backcourt players only Babosa has a worse defensive rating than Lee, with Terry's being the best and Rondo second.
Of course this statistic is hardly a 'tell everything' stat, but I really see nothing outside of the "eye test" that suggests Lee's defense has been anything special.
As much as his individual defense can be quite solid, his team defense has been pretty mediocre.
Add to that his rediculously high turnover rate and it's hard to make a case for keeping hold of him. He really doesn't do a whole lot of positive for us when he's out there.
Don't get me wrong Green has been terrible defensively as well, but at least he has been scoring the ball with some consistency over the last 6 or 7 games.
I'm not sure who's been a bigger dissapointment...Lee or Bass.
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The statistics I've seen suggest otherwise. Among our currently active backcourt players only Babosa has a worse defensive rating than Lee, with Terry's being the best and Rondo second.
Of course this statistic is hardly a 'tell everything' stat, but I really see nothing outside of the "eye test" that suggests Lee's defense has been anything special.
Any stat where Terry leads something in defensive rating should immediately be qualified as "tell nothing" stat.