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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: lightspeed5 on December 14, 2012, 03:55:03 AM

Title: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: lightspeed5 on December 14, 2012, 03:55:03 AM
I believe that kobe and dwight do not compliment each other. I think dwight needs to be paired with an athletic point guard, slashers, and other multi-faceted and athletic bigs to succeed.  (Which is why I think he'd be a good fit here in green but thats another story).

Dwights been with 3-pt jackers his entire career and he's gone nowhere. that one time he went to the finals was because he was in beast mode, so its the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: ACF on December 14, 2012, 04:11:21 AM
There are 20 teams with a better record than the Lakers. That hasn't happened very often, in any NBA regular season.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

But let's wait with the verdict, because I think they're a different (i.e. better) team with Stevie dishing the rock. Just like the Celtics are better with a stopper like AB out on the floor.

But hey, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it while it lasts  8)
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 14, 2012, 07:10:33 AM
Bad coaches too.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Onslaught on December 14, 2012, 07:22:11 AM
I'm holding off on making my mind up on this one. I thought that the Heat didn't "fit" or mix well and would get knocked out again in the playoffs last year. We all know how that ended.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: jdz101 on December 14, 2012, 07:39:11 AM
Bad coaches too.

In what way was Stan a bad basketball coach??

I always liked how stan worked. It was a disgrace how he got treated.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: slamtheking on December 14, 2012, 07:55:38 AM
yes they suck as people.  whiny ****s that are locker room cancers.  what? that's not what you mean?  oh then nevermind.   ;)
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 14, 2012, 08:23:02 AM
Dantoni's the problem.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Donoghus on December 14, 2012, 08:43:56 AM
From a human being standpoint? Oh yeah.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Snakehead on December 14, 2012, 08:44:35 AM
I'm loving the Lakers being so bad so far but Nash is really the key.  When he's back, able to play like Nash being no longer limited by the Princeton, I think then this team will play a lot better.

As a duo, Dwight and Kobe are not great.  You need a PG to distribute the ball to make that work.

It'll be interesting to see how Kobe deals with a Steve Nash run offense.  Dwight will be just fine there.

The best part is that their bench is awful no matter what happens with the starters.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: TripleOT on December 14, 2012, 08:54:59 AM
With a full roster, Dwight and Kobe will mesh a bit better, at least. You can't take one of the best PGs of all time and one of the best bigs in the league, and lose them to injury and not look shaky,  especially when you've got so much money invested in your best four players that your bench is populated with vetmins past their prime and untested second round rookies and second year players.

On paper, a bench of Steve Blake, Jordan Hill, Jamison and Duhon doesn't look pathetic.  It isn't idea, but when you pay your top five guys $55 million, you can't expect much of a bench.  When you have $30 million in street clothes, you're going to struggle.   
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Chris on December 14, 2012, 08:58:54 AM
Dwight + Kobe + a bunch of guys who shouldn't be in an NBA rotation + learning a dramatically different system on the fly = bad basketball

This team was built on being top heavy, and currently they are missing 2 of their 4 key players, as well as a key reserve, and have been forced to play guys who should not be playing, big minutes. 

In other words, its too early to judge.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: wdleehi on December 14, 2012, 09:16:25 AM
Those are the only two parts I would keep.  (Gasol as well)




It would be nice to see them get a plan that actually plays to the strengths of their best player instead of their injured PG.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Chris on December 14, 2012, 09:19:14 AM
Those are the only two parts I would keep.  (Gasol as well)




It would be nice to see them get a plan that actually plays to the strengths of their best player instead of their injured PG.

I still think the plan does play to the strengths of both Kobe (at this advanced stage of his career) and Dwight.  The problem is (as we saw in NY), it still requires the true PG to make it run, no matter what Kobe or Dwight do.

Which is why I think they need to be really thinking about getting a better backup PG along with a PF that fits the system better, if they trade Gasol. 
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Fafnir on December 14, 2012, 09:23:39 AM
I think its tough to keep both of them happy because both feel like they need the ball for a certain amount of possessions.

Kobe is going to get his shots up, no matter what. Meanwhile Dwight only stays engaged if you get him the ball for several post ups as well.

Without a PG to run P&Rs and juggle those two things, its really hard to make things work in a good offensive flow.

Meanwhile their defense is the biggest issue, but as coaches usually say: 'its hard to get players to play defense when they never touch the ball on the other end".
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Chris on December 14, 2012, 09:36:00 AM

Meanwhile their defense is the biggest issue, but as coaches usually say: 'its hard to get players to play defense when they never touch the ball on the other end".

Its not just about touches.  I think there is a flow to defense, and when the offense is flowing, often the defensive intensity picks up as well.

Not to mention, its easier to get your defense set, when the other team is taking the ball out from under the basket, and not getting long rebounds to get up before the defense can get set. 
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Fafnir on December 14, 2012, 10:06:24 AM

Meanwhile their defense is the biggest issue, but as coaches usually say: 'its hard to get players to play defense when they never touch the ball on the other end".

Its not just about touches.  I think there is a flow to defense, and when the offense is flowing, often the defensive intensity picks up as well.

Not to mention, its easier to get your defense set, when the other team is taking the ball out from under the basket, and not getting long rebounds to get up before the defense can get set.
Just reducing the number of mind boggling bad turnovers they have a game will help their transition defense.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: MBunge on December 14, 2012, 10:19:18 AM
I think its tough to keep both of them happy because both feel like they need the ball for a certain amount of possessions.

Kobe is going to get his shots up, no matter what. Meanwhile Dwight only stays engaged if you get him the ball for several post ups as well.

Gasol also needs his touches.  I'm not sure you can manage all that in a system where the ball is in one guy's hands all the time, even if that guy is Nash.  Kobe knows enough to talk a good game, but there's no way he'll be happy standing off to the side while Nash runs pick-n-rolls with Howard and Gasol over and over again.

Mike

Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: scaryjerry on December 14, 2012, 10:51:32 AM
I don't think Dwight Howard is the same player right now.....I never really understood why he wanted out of Orlando...they built their teams perfectly to accommodate him. dwightmare. didn't even notice him last night and so far I haven't seen his heart into being in la
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: 2short on December 14, 2012, 11:34:03 AM
I think its tough to keep both of them happy because both feel like they need the ball for a certain amount of possessions.

Kobe is going to get his shots up, no matter what. Meanwhile Dwight only stays engaged if you get him the ball for several post ups as well.

Gasol also needs his touches.  I'm not sure you can manage all that in a system where the ball is in one guy's hands all the time, even if that guy is Nash.  Kobe knows enough to talk a good game, but there's no way he'll be happy standing off to the side while Nash runs pick-n-rolls with Howard and Gasol over and over again.

Mike
agreed, kobe needs the ball and shots, to make dwight effective the ball has to be in nash's ball dominating grip, i think i see an implosion
gasol is a good enough passer and teammate i don't worry about him, kobe has never been good at playing with other kids and i think we'll see his real face as the losing continues

i think if they aren't doing well at a certain point it would make more sense to blow the team up, kobe included and start with a free cap they have some big contracts there
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: ScottHow on December 14, 2012, 11:41:21 AM
I think the biggest problem is the team has no direction. They now play 0 defense and their offense is suppose to be run and gun with an old Kobe, Artest, and Howard off back surgery? Not to mention Gasol being benched.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: mgent on December 14, 2012, 11:46:57 AM
Kobe wants to shoot his shots, not run the pick and roll with Dwight.  He's better with an elite passing big man (Gasol, Shaq) that will give him the ball back and at least create a better shot for him.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Who on December 14, 2012, 11:58:51 AM
Kobe and Dwight work together fine.

There are several problems in LA. That combination / duo is not one of them.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Boris Badenov on December 14, 2012, 12:03:29 PM
I just checked Howard's on/off numbers and am shocked.

His net plus/minus is -9.

Per 48, the Lakers score 108 with him on the court, 115 with him off the court.

Even worse, they allow 105 with him on the court, and 103 with him off. The alleged best defensive player in the league is making his team worse on defense.

The Lakers allow 49% FG with him, 45% without. They get 50% of rebounds with him, 55% without.

What a disgrace.

Kobe on the other hand is a net +21; the Lakers are 14 points better on offense and 7 better on defense when Bryant is on the floor. Every metric you can think of (except, not surprisingly, assisted baskets) is even or better with Kobe on the floor. That includes team shooting percentage, which is 53% with and 46% without.

I am not the biggest Kobe fan, but IMO this has everything to do with Dwight Howard and his terrible, half-hearted efforts.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: hpantazo on December 14, 2012, 12:04:01 PM
The lakers should trade Kobe for a young, talented point guard who can be paired with Howard and Gasol and take over after Nash retires. There is no sense in investing in Kobe any longer. Trade him to the twolves for Rubio plus someone to make salaries work
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: hpantazo on December 14, 2012, 12:10:41 PM
I just checked Howard's on/off numbers and am shocked.

His net plus/minus is -9.

Per 48, the Lakers score 108 with him on the court, 115 with him off the court.

Even worse, they allow 105 with him on the court, and 103 with him off. The alleged best defensive player in the league is making his team worse on defense.

The Lakers allow 49% FG with him, 45% without. They get 50% of rebounds with him, 55% without.

What a disgrace.

Kobe on the other hand is a net +21; the Lakers are 14 points better on offense and 7 better on defense when Bryant is on the floor. Every metric you can think of (except, not surprisingly, assisted baskets) is even or better with Kobe on the floor. That includes team shooting percentage, which is 53% with and 46% without.

I am not the biggest Kobe fan, but IMO this has everything to do with Dwight Howard and his terrible, half-hearted efforts.

I don't like Howard's mindset on the court, but I think these numbers reflect the fact that he is still recovering from major back surgery and learning to play on a new team with an egomaniac teammate and no coaching direction. He's still young and the best center in the league, and when fully healthy the best defensive big man in the league. With a good coach next to Gasol and a pg like Rubio he would flourish. Kobe is on his last legs and is killing the flow of the team trying to play like he's 25. They should trade him.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 14, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
I just checked Howard's on/off numbers and am shocked.

His net plus/minus is -9.

Per 48, the Lakers score 108 with him on the court, 115 with him off the court.

Even worse, they allow 105 with him on the court, and 103 with him off. The alleged best defensive player in the league is making his team worse on defense.

The Lakers allow 49% FG with him, 45% without. They get 50% of rebounds with him, 55% without.

What a disgrace.

Kobe on the other hand is a net +21; the Lakers are 14 points better on offense and 7 better on defense when Bryant is on the floor. Every metric you can think of (except, not surprisingly, assisted baskets) is even or better with Kobe on the floor. That includes team shooting percentage, which is 53% with and 46% without.

I am not the biggest Kobe fan, but IMO this has everything to do with Dwight Howard and his terrible, half-hearted efforts.

I don't like Howard's mindset on the court, but I think these numbers reflect the fact that he is still recovering from major back surgery and learning to play on a new team with an egomaniac teammate and no coaching direction. He's still young and the best center in the league, and when fully healthy the best defensive big man in the league. With a good coach next to Gasol and a pg like Rubio he would flourish. Kobe is on his last legs and is killing the flow of the team trying to play like he's 25. They should trade him.

Kobe has a no trade contract. UNLESS he approves first.

Howard may NEVER be the player he was, back SURGERY is super serious , and while he may outplay and be better athlete than 99.5% of the genral population, all he has to lose is  6 inchs of leaping ability, some dexterity, some control , ect , and he suddenly he becomes just an above average player in the NBA ( which is level he playing at , above average , not great).   Since he SUCKS as a shooter , he may never be able to rely on the Lebron /Wade pure athleticism to be great after surgery.

Howard doesn't have the "KILLER" instinct to WIN ,  Not sure he is PURE lover of the game like MJ, KG , and Kobe....he wants to be great and admired , but doesn't want to put in the work 80 games to get there like other famous centers.

Attitude , mindset and IQ is very important.  He reminds me of a 7 th grader , looking to impress everybody. He reminds me of a black modern  Jethro Bodine of the Beverly Hillbillies. 

He'll never mean as much to a team as RObert Parrish meant to the Celtic s ...or maybe not even the player Bynum was for the Lakers when they needed him.

When the PRESSURE is on HOWARD crumbles, fouls out, shoots abrick, misses a layup , makes a bad play when the chips are down....his mind is soft , he does the wrong thing 50% of the time when the pressure is on. 

Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: CelticG1 on December 14, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
Kobe and Dwight work together fine.

There are several problems in LA. That combination / duo is not one of them.

Besides them being elite talents I wouldn't say they are a great match.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Who on December 14, 2012, 12:41:03 PM
I just checked Howard's on/off numbers and am shocked.

His net plus/minus is -9.

Per 48, the Lakers score 108 with him on the court, 115 with him off the court.

Even worse, they allow 105 with him on the court, and 103 with him off. The alleged best defensive player in the league is making his team worse on defense.

The Lakers allow 49% FG with him, 45% without. They get 50% of rebounds with him, 55% without.

What a disgrace.

Kobe on the other hand is a net +21; the Lakers are 14 points better on offense and 7 better on defense when Bryant is on the floor. Every metric you can think of (except, not surprisingly, assisted baskets) is even or better with Kobe on the floor. That includes team shooting percentage, which is 53% with and 46% without.

I am not the biggest Kobe fan, but IMO this has everything to do with Dwight Howard and his terrible, half-hearted efforts.

Dwight Howard is still struggling with his recovering from that back surgery.

Not as physically able as he once was. Give it time, hopefully, it'll come back in time.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: Kiorrik on December 14, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
Tbh, they make a great 1-2 punch ... like Laurel and Hardy :p
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: lightspeed5 on December 14, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
Kobe and Dwight work together fine.

There are several problems in LA. That combination / duo is not one of them.

Besides them being elite talents I wouldn't say they are a great match.
exactly. If it was a good match, we would have seen amazing things. A 39 year old shaq was putting a better performance with lobs from rajon rondo, and rondo broke so many assist records thanks to shaq diesel. 82 assists in the 1st 5 games. Dwight and kobe have lost so many games its not even funny.
Title: Re: Dwight + Kobe = horrible duo?
Post by: lightspeed5 on December 14, 2012, 08:31:57 PM
the 1st excuse for the losses was "its just the preseason"

then it was "its too early"

then it was "we need the new coach to gel"

now its "wait for nash"