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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on December 13, 2012, 07:54:40 PM

Title: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: KG Living Legend on December 13, 2012, 07:54:40 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 13, 2012, 07:56:12 PM
No...I'd keep Rondo.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: CantBeRight on December 13, 2012, 08:01:57 PM
No.

Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Kiorrik on December 13, 2012, 08:02:11 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: wdleehi on December 13, 2012, 08:22:58 PM
That would be almost to much talent to turn down. 


Evans
AB
Pierce
KG
Cousins

with a bench of
Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Sully
Thompson



Of course the Kings say no, but I don't see how Ainge could. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: action781 on December 13, 2012, 08:28:51 PM
I think a poll would be more efficient than a thread consisting of all simple yes/no posts.

I'd say..... yes.   :( :-X  That's a lot of talent coming in.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: BballTim on December 13, 2012, 08:42:48 PM


  You really want Cousins, this is the second thread about it in 2-3 days.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ianboyextreme on December 13, 2012, 08:51:35 PM
That would be almost to much talent to turn down. 


Evans
AB
Pierce
KG
Cousins

with a bench of
Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Sully
Thompson



Of course the Kings say no, but I don't see how Ainge could.
Edit, I dont see how Ainge could say yes to that.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: hardlyyardley on December 13, 2012, 09:21:04 PM
Try this

Rondo and Bass to Cleveland for
Irving and Varaejo
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: slamtheking on December 13, 2012, 09:22:09 PM
Ainge would probably pull the trigger. Evans and Cousins not to mention the other pieces -- probably a done deal if offered to Danny.  A future team (after PP and KG retire) of Evans, Bradley, Green, Sully and Cousins might be fairly appealing with Bass, Thompson, Wilcox and Lee (and Melo & Joseph) off the bench isn't too shabby as a starting point
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 13, 2012, 09:29:38 PM
Of course. Hard to imagine the Kings being interested. If they were going to give up Cousins and Evans for Rondo they'd be looking for some sweeteners. Also shipping out Cousins replacement wouldn't be one of them.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Kane3387 on December 13, 2012, 09:57:43 PM
That would be almost to much talent to turn down. 


Evans
AB
Pierce
KG
Cousins

with a bench of
Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Sully
Thompson



Of course the Kings say no, but I don't see how Ainge could.

Hate Evans at PG. He needs a Billups or a Kidd type Pg by him. One who can play off ball, has size, and can mentor him also.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Who on December 13, 2012, 09:58:45 PM
That would be almost to much talent to turn down. 


Evans
AB
Pierce
KG
Cousins

with a bench of
Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Sully
Thompson



Of course the Kings say no, but I don't see how Ainge could.

Hate Evans at PG. He needs a Billups or a Kidd type Pg by him. One who can play off ball, has size, and can mentor him also.
Why size?
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: PhoSita on December 13, 2012, 10:01:58 PM
No.  Rondo still gives us a better chance to win now, and once the Big 3 retired we'd just be the Kings.  Blech.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: action781 on December 13, 2012, 10:16:39 PM
That would be almost to much talent to turn down. 


Evans
AB
Pierce
KG
Cousins

with a bench of
Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Sully
Thompson



Of course the Kings say no, but I don't see how Ainge could.

Hate Evans at PG. He needs a Billups or a Kidd type Pg by him. One who can play off ball, has size, and can mentor him also.

I'd start Terry at point and have Evans come off the bench.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: syfy9 on December 13, 2012, 10:55:47 PM
That would be almost to much talent to turn down. 


Evans
AB

Pierce
KG
Cousins

with a bench of
Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Sully
Thompson



Of course the Kings say no, but I don't see how Ainge could.

Hate Evans at PG. He needs a Billups or a Kidd type Pg by him. One who can play off ball, has size, and can mentor him also.

I'd start Terry at point and have Evans come off the bench.

Or we could just start Bradley at point with Evans at SG. Have the offense run through Evans and Pierce.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 13, 2012, 11:02:22 PM
Kevin Love
Cousins
Lebron ;D   
Noah
Howard
Marc Gasol

Rondo is great , but I could let him go for the right BIG
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: jdz101 on December 13, 2012, 11:47:26 PM
Try this

Rondo and Bass to Cleveland for
Irving and Varaejo

I would do rondo for Irving and a filler to make salaries work.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Edgar on December 13, 2012, 11:49:13 PM
Try this

Rondo and Bass to Cleveland for
Irving and Varaejo

not bad sadly varejaos injuries worries me toooooo much
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Edgar on December 13, 2012, 11:50:24 PM
p.s. this is the old.... the one that got the dominant big won the trade

unless see Lakers/la
they give another dominant big
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: jbaerg on December 14, 2012, 12:24:44 AM
Free gasoline for life.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: wahz on December 14, 2012, 12:29:43 AM
One MILLION dollars :P
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Edgar on December 14, 2012, 12:36:30 AM
a bag of cheetos
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: indeedproceed on December 14, 2012, 12:51:30 AM
That's a tough one. I'd still say no, but not because it's a bad deal for us.

I'd say no, because trading Rondo would decimate this team, and neither Tyreke or Cousins are good enough right now to make that right. I'd say no for pierce, KG, and JET
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: indeedproceed on December 14, 2012, 12:52:33 AM
I'd do the Kyrie/AV deal though. I'd also do it for Paul, Deandre Jordan
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Kiorrik on December 14, 2012, 02:42:05 AM
Topic lost me at "Rondo".
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on December 14, 2012, 06:17:29 AM
I will not, because it will ruin the team chemistry.

But man, that's too much young talent to turn down. Maybe when KG and Paul calls it quits. Then I'll flip Tyreke for Kyle Lowry, to get a somehow similar PG.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 14, 2012, 07:12:28 AM
A superstar.

Edit - No personal attacks.  If you disagree, talk about the trade idea.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Change on December 14, 2012, 07:15:22 AM
The list:

Lebron.

End of list

seriously Rondo is a Celtics for life. His jersey number is going up next to Garnett and Pierce. As Tommy often says, Rondo is once in generation player.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 14, 2012, 08:26:01 AM
No...I'd keep Rondo.

Best possible answer to this question.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: alajet on December 14, 2012, 08:29:12 AM
That's a tough one. I'd still say no, but not because it's a bad deal for us.

I'd say no, because trading Rondo would decimate this team, and neither Tyreke or Cousins are good enough right now to make that right. I'd say no for pierce, KG, and JET

The most plausible reply in the thread for me.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Chris on December 14, 2012, 08:59:52 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Celtics18 on December 14, 2012, 09:04:25 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 14, 2012, 10:06:47 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Celtics18 on December 14, 2012, 10:28:19 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Fafnir on December 14, 2012, 10:40:22 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.
When you are a net nothing on the court like Cousins its hard for me to call you a very good NBA player.

Too many wasted possesions with terrible shots and still too many mistakes on the defensive end.

Cousins gets his numbers, but doesn't help his team any yet.

Tyreke does a lot better job of helping his team, especially when he's utilized properly.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Chris on December 14, 2012, 10:43:06 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.
When you are a net nothing on the court like Cousins its hard for me to call you a very good NBA player.

Too many wasted possesions with terrible shots and still too many mistakes on the defensive end.

Cousins gets his numbers, but doesn't help his team any yet.

Tyreke does a lot better job of helping his team, especially when he's utilized properly.

I think its hard to say whether Cousins helps his team or not, when he is playing for that horrid franchise. 

He is a huge risk because of his behavior, but on the court, I think he just needs to be utilized better to be incredibly valuable. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 14, 2012, 10:43:28 AM
Gotta give up something good to get something equal value... UNLESS you are LAKERS ...in which you can pick and choose , kid-napp , steal , cheat or hose any team to get the player ( lattest and greatest)you desire.

LA fans just take it for ganted that Lebron will play for them when Kobe retires. ::)
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Fafnir on December 14, 2012, 10:49:16 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.
When you are a net nothing on the court like Cousins its hard for me to call you a very good NBA player.

Too many wasted possesions with terrible shots and still too many mistakes on the defensive end.

Cousins gets his numbers, but doesn't help his team any yet.

Tyreke does a lot better job of helping his team, especially when he's utilized properly.

I think its hard to say whether Cousins helps his team or not, when he is playing for that horrid franchise. 

He is a huge risk because of his behavior, but on the court, I think he just needs to be utilized better to be incredibly valuable.
I don't think its that hard to say whether or not he helps the Kings win, he doesn't.

But could he do much better if put in a better situation, probably within a year of two of learning better habits and being put in positions to succeed.

But over the course of his entire career (and this year if you break down the sample) when he's on the floor the Kings score a bit more and give up a few more points than when he's off.

Which fits what I see when he's on the court when I watch their games.

His talent isn't in doubt by anyone.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: xmuscularghandix on December 14, 2012, 10:49:26 AM
The only thing i'd trade Rondo for is a nice PG/Big man combo like Rubio/Love, Curry/Lee, Conley/Gasol, Lawson/Faried... something like that.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 14, 2012, 10:54:07 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.
When you are a net nothing on the court like Cousins its hard for me to call you a very good NBA player.

Too many wasted possesions with terrible shots and still too many mistakes on the defensive end.

Cousins gets his numbers, but doesn't help his team any yet.

Tyreke does a lot better job of helping his team, especially when he's utilized properly.

I think its hard to say whether Cousins helps his team or not, when he is playing for that horrid franchise. 

He is a huge risk because of his behavior, but on the court, I think he just needs to be utilized better to be incredibly valuable.

I really don't think we have seen alot of the "REAL" Cousins yet. He plays spectactuar moments...he is now to age under the right team he could Like Z BO clean up his act and be a superstar.  If he was playing for a serious coach (DOC) he'd respect and older players that would make him focus ( KG, JET , PP) , ones he would respect listen to their advice ...this guy is a top ten in the NBA player.



Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 14, 2012, 11:03:00 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: StartOrien on December 14, 2012, 11:25:19 AM
That's a tough one. I'd still say no, but not because it's a bad deal for us.

I'd say no, because trading Rondo would decimate this team, and neither Tyreke or Cousins are good enough right now to make that right. I'd say no for pierce, KG, and JET

Ya, this is a great point. Because from a basketball standpoint I think I'd consider it, I think I'd even argue it could help our chances of winning this year.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ScottHow on December 14, 2012, 11:29:13 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Evans and Cousins? I love Rondo, but I'd do this in a heart beat.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Celtics18 on December 14, 2012, 11:38:22 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.


I believe that by almost any objective measure, one would have to consider Rondo a top ten player.

The trick will to get a potential all star caliber big to play alongside Rondo for the future of this club, not to trade him away for one.

If Danny has the smarts and the patience (which I think he does), I think that we could be in a position within the next couple of years to make that happen. 

I'm not suggesting that Rondo can lead this team to championship contention by himself.  Then again, there's no NBA player that can.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: angryguy77 on December 14, 2012, 11:41:39 AM
Only if the player being traded for can give us what Rondo does in the playoffs. There's reg season Rondo and then there's playoff Rondo.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: BballTim on December 14, 2012, 11:42:55 AM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.

  Rondo's led teams to the finals and to the conference finals in separate years and he's only 26. The odds on your being able to make a similar claim about Cousins (or Evans) is shockingly low.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 14, 2012, 12:38:03 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.

  Rondo's led teams to the finals and to the conference finals in separate years and he's only 26. The odds on your being able to make a similar claim about Cousins (or Evans) is shockingly low.

Those teams had 3 HOFs on them -- the 'Big 3' -- including one of the top 5 defensive bigs of all time. So I don't agree that he led them to those events -- rather that he was a strong contributor -- just as I wouldn't look at Cousins & Evans ability to do the same in a vaccuum without factoring the other players and coaches around them.

If you put Rondo on the Kings today and took out Evans and Cousins, I don't believe the Kings would suddenly be a contender or even significantly better.

Meanwhile, IMO the Cs chances of winning another title in the PP & KG era is directly tied to their ability to succeed in a grind-it-out style, not the up-and-down one the team is currently pretending they can run and win with. It's fair to say that doesn't exactly work to Rondo's strengths.

I'll believe Rondo can 'lead' a team to a championship when I see it. If he succeeds, he'll be the first point guard to do it since the 80s, if you can say as much about those Lakers and / or Pistons teams.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: BballTim on December 14, 2012, 02:48:06 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.

  Rondo's led teams to the finals and to the conference finals in separate years and he's only 26. The odds on your being able to make a similar claim about Cousins (or Evans) is shockingly low.

Those teams had 3 HOFs on them -- the 'Big 3' -- including one of the top 5 defensive bigs of all time. So I don't agree that he led them to those events -- rather that he was a strong contributor -- just as I wouldn't look at Cousins & Evans ability to do the same in a vaccuum without factoring the other players and coaches around them.

If you put Rondo on the Kings today and took out Evans and Cousins, I don't believe the Kings would suddenly be a contender or even significantly better.

Meanwhile, IMO the Cs chances of winning another title in the PP & KG era is directly tied to their ability to succeed in a grind-it-out style, not the up-and-down one the team is currently pretending they can run and win with. It's fair to say that doesn't exactly work to Rondo's strengths.

I'll believe Rondo can 'lead' a team to a championship when I see it. If he succeeds, he'll be the first point guard to do it since the 80s, if you can say as much about those Lakers and / or Pistons teams.

  First of all you must have no idea of basketball in the 80s and 90s if you don't think that Magic and Thomas were the best players on their teams. Your comment "NBA champions are never built around PGs" was pretty nonsensical. Secondly, any assumption that Ray, PP and KG were playing like HOF level players in 2010 or 2012 is silly, as is your claim that KG was playing like a top 5 big of all time in either year. Rondo was our best player in the playoffs those years and he led both teams to the ECF. Again, how many times do you expect to say that about Cousins or Evans?
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 14, 2012, 03:38:32 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.

  Rondo's led teams to the finals and to the conference finals in separate years and he's only 26. The odds on your being able to make a similar claim about Cousins (or Evans) is shockingly low.

Those teams had 3 HOFs on them -- the 'Big 3' -- including one of the top 5 defensive bigs of all time. So I don't agree that he led them to those events -- rather that he was a strong contributor -- just as I wouldn't look at Cousins & Evans ability to do the same in a vaccuum without factoring the other players and coaches around them.

If you put Rondo on the Kings today and took out Evans and Cousins, I don't believe the Kings would suddenly be a contender or even significantly better.

Meanwhile, IMO the Cs chances of winning another title in the PP & KG era is directly tied to their ability to succeed in a grind-it-out style, not the up-and-down one the team is currently pretending they can run and win with. It's fair to say that doesn't exactly work to Rondo's strengths.

I'll believe Rondo can 'lead' a team to a championship when I see it. If he succeeds, he'll be the first point guard to do it since the 80s, if you can say as much about those Lakers and / or Pistons teams.

  First of all you must have no idea of basketball in the 80s and 90s if you don't think that Magic and Thomas were the best players on their teams. Your comment "NBA champions are never built around PGs" was pretty nonsensical. Secondly, any assumption that Ray, PP and KG were playing like HOF level players in 2010 or 2012 is silly, as is your claim that KG was playing like a top 5 big of all time in either year. Rondo was our best player in the playoffs those years and he led both teams to the ECF. Again, how many times do you expect to say that about Cousins or Evans?

I hate getting bogged down into these silly semantic debates, particularly with the petty attempts to belittle the poster.

~~ I don't understand that the teams I referred to as the ones that were PG-driven... were PG-driven? And 25 years ago? I think the caveat I added is fair, considering the numerous other HOFs that played on both of those teams, as well.

~~ Where did I say that Paul, Ray or KG was at the absolute peaks of their respective careers when they won in 2008? Each of them was every bit as important to the success of that team as Rondo, and the strength of the 4 of them together was required to get over the top.

My point is valid: as those guys get older, Rondo becomes the cornerstone of the franchise. History suggests that's bad news, particularly considering his inability to lead his team in scoring more than once or twice a season, or take and make late game shots consistently (like both Magic and Zeke did). That you're not fond of Cousins doesn't make me wrong about these points.

Rondo homerism aside, there's very little doubt that the Cs would probably be better off trading Rajon some time in the next couple of years than keeping him if they could get a top 4 or 5 for him. If they can figure out some way to do so without trading him -- awesome -- i'll jump up and down... but current assets sure make that look tough.

Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Celtics18 on December 14, 2012, 04:27:24 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.

  Rondo's led teams to the finals and to the conference finals in separate years and he's only 26. The odds on your being able to make a similar claim about Cousins (or Evans) is shockingly low.

Those teams had 3 HOFs on them -- the 'Big 3' -- including one of the top 5 defensive bigs of all time. So I don't agree that he led them to those events -- rather that he was a strong contributor -- just as I wouldn't look at Cousins & Evans ability to do the same in a vaccuum without factoring the other players and coaches around them.

If you put Rondo on the Kings today and took out Evans and Cousins, I don't believe the Kings would suddenly be a contender or even significantly better.

Meanwhile, IMO the Cs chances of winning another title in the PP & KG era is directly tied to their ability to succeed in a grind-it-out style, not the up-and-down one the team is currently pretending they can run and win with. It's fair to say that doesn't exactly work to Rondo's strengths.

I'll believe Rondo can 'lead' a team to a championship when I see it. If he succeeds, he'll be the first point guard to do it since the 80s, if you can say as much about those Lakers and / or Pistons teams.

  First of all you must have no idea of basketball in the 80s and 90s if you don't think that Magic and Thomas were the best players on their teams. Your comment "NBA champions are never built around PGs" was pretty nonsensical. Secondly, any assumption that Ray, PP and KG were playing like HOF level players in 2010 or 2012 is silly, as is your claim that KG was playing like a top 5 big of all time in either year. Rondo was our best player in the playoffs those years and he led both teams to the ECF. Again, how many times do you expect to say that about Cousins or Evans?

I hate getting bogged down into these silly semantic debates, particularly with the petty attempts to belittle the poster.

~~ I don't understand that the teams I referred to as the ones that were PG-driven... were PG-driven? And 25 years ago? I think the caveat I added is fair, considering the numerous other HOFs that played on both of those teams, as well.

~~ Where did I say that Paul, Ray or KG was at the absolute peaks of their respective careers when they won in 2008? Each of them was every bit as important to the success of that team as Rondo, and the strength of the 4 of them together was required to get over the top.

My point is valid: as those guys get older, Rondo becomes the cornerstone of the franchise. History suggests that's bad news, particularly considering his inability to lead his team in scoring more than once or twice a season, or take and make late game shots consistently (like both Magic and Zeke did). That you're not fond of Cousins doesn't make me wrong about these points.

Rondo homerism aside, there's very little doubt that the Cs would probably be better off trading Rajon some time in the next couple of years than keeping him if they could get a top 4 or 5 for him. If they can figure out some way to do so without trading him -- awesome -- i'll jump up and down... but current assets sure make that look tough.

To win titles, you need more than one great player.  Neither DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans are anywhere near the category of great player at this point in their careers.  Rondo is.  If you are going to take a chance on somebody, take a chance on somebody to pair up with Rondo. 

Trading him right now would be foolish.  That's not homerism, that's common sense.  It seems that the only people who still vastly underrate Rondo are a handful of Celtics fans who can't accept that Rajon keeps surpassing their own expectations of him. 

Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: BballTim on December 14, 2012, 06:52:08 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Value-wise, yes, however, it would need a third team to make it work, because those players don't work together.

I disagree that it's equal value.  A bunch of players with potential don't equal a proven superstar.

I think 'a bunch of players with potential' is stretching it. Evans (career: 18, 5 and 5) and Cousins (career: 16, 10 and a block) are both very good NBA players, despite being on a bad team with poor, inconsistent coaching.

I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

When you factor that NBA champions are never built around PGs -- particularly one's who struggle intensely with shooting -- i think calling Rondo a superstar or a top 10 NBA player is a reach... even if you consider him the best player at his position (which I don't).

There are very few bigs in the NBA who are a better combo of existing ability, youth, and potential to improve than Cousins. If one believes he can grow up -- a big if -- you'd trade Rondo for him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd also keep in mind that Ainge has long been a fan of Evans -- he'd be a major reason why the Cs would consider a package of the two should that opportunity arise.

  Rondo's led teams to the finals and to the conference finals in separate years and he's only 26. The odds on your being able to make a similar claim about Cousins (or Evans) is shockingly low.

Those teams had 3 HOFs on them -- the 'Big 3' -- including one of the top 5 defensive bigs of all time. So I don't agree that he led them to those events -- rather that he was a strong contributor -- just as I wouldn't look at Cousins & Evans ability to do the same in a vaccuum without factoring the other players and coaches around them.

If you put Rondo on the Kings today and took out Evans and Cousins, I don't believe the Kings would suddenly be a contender or even significantly better.

Meanwhile, IMO the Cs chances of winning another title in the PP & KG era is directly tied to their ability to succeed in a grind-it-out style, not the up-and-down one the team is currently pretending they can run and win with. It's fair to say that doesn't exactly work to Rondo's strengths.

I'll believe Rondo can 'lead' a team to a championship when I see it. If he succeeds, he'll be the first point guard to do it since the 80s, if you can say as much about those Lakers and / or Pistons teams.

  First of all you must have no idea of basketball in the 80s and 90s if you don't think that Magic and Thomas were the best players on their teams. Your comment "NBA champions are never built around PGs" was pretty nonsensical. Secondly, any assumption that Ray, PP and KG were playing like HOF level players in 2010 or 2012 is silly, as is your claim that KG was playing like a top 5 big of all time in either year. Rondo was our best player in the playoffs those years and he led both teams to the ECF. Again, how many times do you expect to say that about Cousins or Evans?

I hate getting bogged down into these silly semantic debates, particularly with the petty attempts to belittle the poster.

~~ I don't understand that the teams I referred to as the ones that were PG-driven... were PG-driven? And 25 years ago? I think the caveat I added is fair, considering the numerous other HOFs that played on both of those teams, as well.

~~ Where did I say that Paul, Ray or KG was at the absolute peaks of their respective careers when they won in 2008? Each of them was every bit as important to the success of that team as Rondo, and the strength of the 4 of them together was required to get over the top.

My point is valid: as those guys get older, Rondo becomes the cornerstone of the franchise. History suggests that's bad news, particularly considering his inability to lead his team in scoring more than once or twice a season, or take and make late game shots consistently (like both Magic and Zeke did). That you're not fond of Cousins doesn't make me wrong about these points.

Rondo homerism aside, there's very little doubt that the Cs would probably be better off trading Rajon some time in the next couple of years than keeping him if they could get a top 4 or 5 for him. If they can figure out some way to do so without trading him -- awesome -- i'll jump up and down... but current assets sure make that look tough.

  I'd wonder why you'd refer to the big three as future HOFs and a top 5 defensive big of all time in order to claim that Rondo wasn't leading the team if you realize that none of them were playing at the level that you used to describe them. But beyond that, teams with great players tend to contend for titles. There's no reason teams led by point guards can't win titles, in fact two recent point guards were finals mvps. You keep claiming that we need to trade Rondo for a big because "historically" we're more likely to win with a big, but plenty of teams have had good bigs without winning titles. Rondo's already led multiple teams to deep playoff runs, yet you want to trade him for Cousins not because you seem to be confident that Cousins will have equal postseason success but because he's taller and "taller players win titles".
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: KG Living Legend on December 14, 2012, 07:17:30 PM

 SSSpence. TP. Great point. Can Rondo ever bee Isiah Thomas good. What other small Point guards have ever even "lead" their team to a title.
 I have more respect for Jason Kidd as a basketball player than almost anyone. Great as he is, 3 finals appearances. Never as the best player. If he would have won a title with the nets that would have solidified him as a top 3 point guard ever.

 Kidd and Rondo are both fantastic Basketball players. But it raises a good question would you deal Rondo for the right two players. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: BballTim on December 14, 2012, 07:21:27 PM

 SSSpence. TP. Great point. Can Rondo ever bee Isiah Thomas good. What other small Point guards have ever even "lead" their team to a title.
 I have more respect for Jason Kidd as a basketball player than almost anyone. Great as he is, 3 finals appearances. Never as the best player. If he would have won a title with the nets that would have solidified him as a top 3 point guard ever.

 Kidd and Rondo are both fantastic Basketball players. But it raises a good question would you deal Rondo for the right two players.

  You're trying to claim that Kidd wasn't the best player on those Nets teams?
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: KG Living Legend on December 14, 2012, 07:27:27 PM

 No not at all. I'm saying he clearly was the best on those Nets teams and if he somehow could have came away with a title then. That would have really catapulted him into a new stratosphere in many peoples eyes.

 It's great he won one with Dallas. And he helped. But he was what the third, fourth, fifth best player at that point.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 14, 2012, 08:45:52 PM
Right now I'd pull the trigger for Cousins or Love , in a NEW YORK sec. ;D   we look so old and near dead
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 17, 2012, 07:04:33 AM
[quote author=Celtics18 I agree that they are both "very good NBA players," and I would go as far as to add that they have the potential to get even better.  But, Rondo is a superstar, top ten NBA player, the kind of player that is the cornerstone of a franchise.  You need a guy like that, and there's no guarantee that DeMarcus Cousins or Tyreke Evans will ever reach that status.

When you have that guy entering his prime, you don't trade him away for guys who are "very good NBA players."
[/quote]

I would say that Rondo is a star, not quite a superstar just yet though.

To me the term "superstar" is reserved for guys like Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Carmello Anthony, Karl Malone. 

IMO a superstar is somebody who is capable of single handedly leading a team into title contention.  Guys who can performing at a high level across a wide range of skill areas, while still being able to dominant a game with their scoring ability on a consistent basis.

John Stockton and Jason Kidd were elite PGs.  They will both be Hall of Fame players and both will go down in history as top 5 or top 10 all time at the PG position.  Both of those guys improved teams dramatically by making the players around them better, and both guys played critical roles to leading their teams to playoff success.

However as much as they could explode for 25 or 30 on the odd occasion, neither of those guys was capable of taking over a game offensively on a consistent basis.  Stockton needed his Karl Malone.  Jason Kidd needed his Vince Carter. Without those guys neither the Jazz nor the Nets would have ever gone deep in the playoffs, and neither of those guys would have received the recognition they deserved.

Rondo is IMHO in the same boat.  When all is said and done I believe he will do down in history as one of the best to ever play the PG position...however he will never be able to lead a team deep in the playoffs unless he has a Paul Pierce, Ray Allen or Kevin Garnett by his side.  His dominace is based upon his ability to create for others - if you don't have an elite scorer you can depend on to hit those shots, then your ability to create is diminished.

Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis (in their primes) are the type of Point Guards you can build a team around.  This is because not only were they all excellent playmakers, but they were also all capable of consistently taking over games with their scoring.  Yes I know that Steph and Baron dropped off (largely due to their attitudes) but they had the type of talent that would have allowed you to build around.

Ray is gone, Pierce and KG are slowing down.  Boston no longer has a clear dominant offensive force this season, and as a result we are starting to see the first signs of what would happen if we tried to rebuild around Rondo.  Because he's not capable of consistently dominating as a scorer, his ability to dominate a game depends on his ability to throw the pass which leads to the score.  If the guy he passes to can't score, then his game is ineffective.  Right now Rondo will score 20 probably once in every 5 games.  He's capable of exploding offensively, but he can't do it consistently enough to be the centrepiece of a team.

Teams generally don't win with a great PG unless either:
1. That PG is also a great scorer or
2. They have a great scorer alongside their PG

Take a look at recent history:

* Miami heat won a title led by Lebron
* Dallas won a title led by Dirk and Terry (scoring PG)
* Lakers have won titles led by Kobe
* Spurs have won titles led by Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker (scoring PG)
* Detroit won a title led by Billups (scoring PG)

Even if you go back to the 80's Lakers and Pistons teams...they were led by Magic and Isiah.  Both of them were Point Guards, but both were 20 PPG + scorers

Long story short...you can't win a title with an elite playmaking PG unless you also have an elite scorer.

You CAN win a title with an elite scorer if you DON'T have an elite playmaking PG.

Newsflash - once Pierce and KG leave, who is our elite scoring player?  Jeff Green is the closest we have, but he's not yet come even close to showing he's capable of that role. We'd essentially have Rondo and a team full of solid role players, and that will NOT win us a title any time soon.

If either Tyreke or Cousins ever developed into Elite (> 20 PPG) scorer  players, while the other remained a solid (15 PPG = 17 PPG) scorer as they already are...then we would have a better chance of winning a title with that combination then we would with Rondo and a bunch of role players.  You NEED a volume go-to scorer to win a title.

Now imagine the next couple of seasons with this lineup:

* Cousins
* Garnett
* Pierce
* Evans
* Bradley

* Barbosa
* Terry
* Green
* Sullinger
* Thompson

* Thomas
* Joseph
* Wilcox
* Melo

Then once Pierce and KG retire in two or three seasons we have about 25 million in cap space to sign another All-Star calibre player to add to this mix.  Lets say we sign Josh Smith:

* Cousins
* Smith
* Green
* Evans
* Bradley

There are just so many possibilities.

If we hold on to Rondo then our entire success depends on our ability to acquire an elite scoring talent to put alongside him.  Josh Smith wouldn't be good enough offensively to work in this equation.  We'd need sombody like Westbrook (won't play well with Rondo), Monta Ellis (won't play well with Rondo), Durant (won't leave OKC), Lebron (would never play in Boston), Carmello (probably a Knick for life now), etc.  Getting a player of that calibre is not easy with the trade assets we have, and getting of one that calibre to sign via free agency i a challenge when your team (outside of Rondo) is made up of mostly role players.

So much as I hate to say it yeah, I think I'd have to accept this trade if it got offered to me.  Especially considering that Thomas and Thompson themselves are not by any means shabby players. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 17, 2012, 07:07:54 AM
Right now I'd pull the trigger for Cousins or Love , in a NEW YORK sec. ;D   we look so old and near dead

I would not for Love. Good player on a bad team syndrome.  Love IMHO does not have the offensive talent to be a go-to scorer for a contending team.  He's a volume shooter who puts points on the board via a high number of shot attempts, but he has no post up game and his jump shot is nowhere near as impressive as people seem to believe (check his shooting percentages from three and midrange, you'll see what I mean). 

Cousins is IMHO a far more versatile player offensive and is capable of scoring in the post or with the jump shot.  He's more athletic then Love and physically stronger as well.  Much more upside IMO.  I don't believe replacing Rondo with Kevin Love would make this team any better at all. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Who on December 17, 2012, 10:13:14 AM
Right now I'd pull the trigger for Cousins or Love , in a NEW YORK sec. ;D   we look so old and near dead

I would not for Love. Good player on a bad team syndrome.  Love IMHO does not have the offensive talent to be a go-to scorer for a contending team.  He's a volume shooter who puts points on the board via a high number of shot attempts, but he has no post up game and his jump shot is nowhere near as impressive as people seem to believe (check his shooting percentages from three and midrange, you'll see what I mean). 

Cousins is IMHO a far more versatile player offensive and is capable of scoring in the post or with the jump shot.  He's more athletic then Love and physically stronger as well.  Much more upside IMO.  I don't believe replacing Rondo with Kevin Love would make this team any better at all.

Wow, Kevin Love would be very interesting. Alongside KG. The offensive punch of those two together. The rebounding upgrade for the team.

The team could start Avery Bradley in Rondo's stead. Maybe Terry alongside him in a two guard backcourt. Very different type of offensive team. A PG centric to a non-PG centric offense overnight. Run the offense through the big men in the high post. Pierce on the wing as a secondary playmaker. Terry as an additional creator off the dribble. Workable.

Anyway ... Minnesota would never trade Love for Rondo. They have Rubio.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: BballTim on December 17, 2012, 10:59:02 AM

To me the term "superstar" is reserved for guys like Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Carmello Anthony, Karl Malone. 

IMO a superstar is somebody who is capable of single handedly leading a team into title contention.  Guys who can performing at a high level across a wide range of skill areas, while still being able to dominant a game with their scoring ability on a consistent basis.

  You're putting Melo in the Bird/Magic/Jordan class because he "can performing at a high level across a wide range of skill areas, while still being able to dominant a game with their scoring ability on a consistent basis"? Wow.


Teams generally don't win with a great PG unless either:
1. That PG is also a great scorer or
2. They have a great scorer alongside their PG

Take a look at recent history:

* Miami heat won a title led by Lebron
* Dallas won a title led by Dirk and Terry (scoring PG)
* Lakers have won titles led by Kobe
* Spurs have won titles led by Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker (scoring PG)
* Detroit won a title led by Billups (scoring PG)

Even if you go back to the 80's Lakers and Pistons teams...they were led by Magic and Isiah.  Both of them were Point Guards, but both were 20 PPG + scorers

Long story short...you can't win a title with an elite playmaking PG unless you also have an elite scorer.

You CAN win a title with an elite scorer if you DON'T have an elite playmaking PG.

  You can win with an elite playmaking pg, the Celts almost did in 2010. If you can get to game 7 of the finals you're obviously capable of winning a title.

Newsflash - once Pierce and KG leave, who is our elite scoring player?  Jeff Green is the closest we have, but he's not yet come even close to showing he's capable of that role. We'd essentially have Rondo and a team full of solid role players, and that will NOT win us a title any time soon.

  I would expect Danny to try and replace PP and KG with 1-2 good players. I doubt that the plan is to let them leave and replace them with solid role players and I wouldn't plan my future on that assumption.

If either Tyreke or Cousins ever developed into Elite (> 20 PPG) scorer  players, while the other remained a solid (15 PPG = 17 PPG) scorer as they already are...then we would have a better chance of winning a title with that combination then we would with Rondo and a bunch of role players.  You NEED a volume go-to scorer to win a title.

  If this were true there's no way Sacramento would ever trade either of them. Evans has been a 20 ppg scorer in the past, all they need to do is wait for him or Cousins to mature a little and they'll be title contenders for the next 6-8 years.

  But that's nonsensical, Cousins and Evans on the same team with one of them (probably Evans) in the role of a volume scorer is probably more likely to result in a lottery team than a title contender. If Evans and Cousins stay with the Kings for the next 6-7 years, what are the odds they enjoy as much playoff success as Rondo has over the last 3 years (finals, 2nd round, ecf)? I'd say awfully low.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Jeff on December 17, 2012, 11:03:56 AM
just for kicks and giggles, who says no to this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqewvxg

Rondo, Lee, Sullinger

for

Love, Rubio
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 17, 2012, 11:04:23 AM
Right now I'd pull the trigger for Cousins or Love , in a NEW YORK sec. ;D   we look so old and near dead

I would not for Love. Good player on a bad team syndrome.  Love IMHO does not have the offensive talent to be a go-to scorer for a contending team.  He's a volume shooter who puts points on the board via a high number of shot attempts, but he has no post up game and his jump shot is nowhere near as impressive as people seem to believe (check his shooting percentages from three and midrange, you'll see what I mean). 

Cousins is IMHO a far more versatile player offensive and is capable of scoring in the post or with the jump shot.  He's more athletic then Love and physically stronger as well.  Much more upside IMO.  I don't believe replacing Rondo with Kevin Love would make this team any better at all.

Wow, Kevin Love would be very interesting. Alongside KG. The offensive punch of those two together. The rebounding upgrade for the team.

The team could start Avery Bradley in Rondo's stead. Maybe Terry alongside him in a two guard backcourt. Very different type of offensive team. A PG centric to a non-PG centric offense overnight. Run the offense through the big men in the high post. Pierce on the wing as a secondary playmaker. Terry as an additional creator off the dribble. Workable.

Anyway ... Minnesota would never trade Love for Rondo. They have Rubio.

Agreed -- likely a fruitless endeavor unless a third team gets involved (who inevitably would want Love over Rondo anyway).

By the way, there's a lot of talk in this thread about Rondo being a 'superstar' and a 'top 10 player'. There's also been talk about him as an MVP candidate around the blog.

There are a number of reasons why this is a myth, most notably you can't go to him in the 4th quarter -- the combination of poor shooting and inability to make FTs (and therefore go to the basket in crunchtime) being a big one.

(Side note: This is a big reason we see those frustrating Pierce heaves at the end of games... Rondo's hesitant to push for more of those shots / plays -- despite all the talk of this now being his team -- because he doesn't really want them.)

Rondo is an excellent player, but this thread as I understand it is about his value in the market. And to this point, he would have a very hard time cracking the top 10 players NBA GMs would trade for.

Jeff -- Minny says no, but I'd say yes!



Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Celtics18 on December 17, 2012, 07:33:51 PM
Right now I'd pull the trigger for Cousins or Love , in a NEW YORK sec. ;D   we look so old and near dead

I would not for Love. Good player on a bad team syndrome.  Love IMHO does not have the offensive talent to be a go-to scorer for a contending team.  He's a volume shooter who puts points on the board via a high number of shot attempts, but he has no post up game and his jump shot is nowhere near as impressive as people seem to believe (check his shooting percentages from three and midrange, you'll see what I mean). 

Cousins is IMHO a far more versatile player offensive and is capable of scoring in the post or with the jump shot.  He's more athletic then Love and physically stronger as well.  Much more upside IMO.  I don't believe replacing Rondo with Kevin Love would make this team any better at all.

Wow, Kevin Love would be very interesting. Alongside KG. The offensive punch of those two together. The rebounding upgrade for the team.

The team could start Avery Bradley in Rondo's stead. Maybe Terry alongside him in a two guard backcourt. Very different type of offensive team. A PG centric to a non-PG centric offense overnight. Run the offense through the big men in the high post. Pierce on the wing as a secondary playmaker. Terry as an additional creator off the dribble. Workable.

Anyway ... Minnesota would never trade Love for Rondo. They have Rubio.

Agreed -- likely a fruitless endeavor unless a third team gets involved (who inevitably would want Love over Rondo anyway).

By the way, there's a lot of talk in this thread about Rondo being a 'superstar' and a 'top 10 player'. There's also been talk about him as an MVP candidate around the blog.

There are a number of reasons why this is a myth, most notably you can't go to him in the 4th quarter -- the combination of poor shooting and inability to make FTs (and therefore go to the basket in crunchtime) being a big one.

(Side note: This is a big reason we see those frustrating Pierce heaves at the end of games... Rondo's hesitant to push for more of those shots / plays -- despite all the talk of this now being his team -- because he doesn't really want them.)

Rondo is an excellent player, but this thread as I understand it is about his value in the market. And to this point, he would have a very hard time cracking the top 10 players NBA GMs would trade for.

Jeff -- Minny says no, but I'd say yes!

Just curious, who would your top ten be?
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ScottHow on December 17, 2012, 07:51:21 PM
just for kicks and giggles, who says no to this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqewvxg

Rondo, Lee, Sullinger

for

Love, Rubio

Do I get an ext for Love?
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: csfansince60s on December 17, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
How about one of these deals with Milwaukee:

Rondo for Jennings, Larry Sanders and Mbah a Moute....or..

Rondo and Lee for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute ...or...

Rondo and Bass for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute?

Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 18, 2012, 12:26:19 AM
Not going to trade KG..period....chances of trading PP are slim ..its very unpopular....

Keep Rondo and wait for KG and PP to retire. Then find a NEW star.

Or Trade Rondo now for a good Center to make a run with PP and KG , Avery and Sully.

I just don't think Bass, Green , Lee are worth anybody significant , but maybe Gortat or Jefferson at best. ???

Either Trade Rondo ...or keep him and stay a .500 team till KG and PP retire. ???

Without a trade I see the Celtics stuck in the land of the:LAND of the LOST NBA teams"

Maybe Fab Melo will met Aliens who will give him instant great NBA basketball skills  ;D 

Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Kane3387 on December 18, 2012, 02:50:24 PM

Jason Thompson, I. Thomas, Tyreke EvanS, and Demarcus Cousins.

 Just would you or wouldn't you keep it simple. Let's say Sac loves Rondo and they are into this deal. Would you trade away Super Rajon for that package.

Yes.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2012, 03:25:28 PM
just for kicks and giggles, who says no to this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqewvxg

Rondo, Lee, Sullinger

for

Love, Rubio
If you thought Rondo had issues with his shot, you'd love Rubio  ;D
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Chris on December 18, 2012, 03:35:59 PM
just for kicks and giggles, who says no to this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqewvxg

Rondo, Lee, Sullinger

for

Love, Rubio

Not the Wolves, unfortunately.  I don't think there is anyone they would trade Rubio for right now. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Change on December 18, 2012, 04:24:14 PM
just for kicks and giggles, who says no to this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqewvxg

Rondo, Lee, Sullinger

for

Love, Rubio

Not the Wolves, unfortunately.  I don't think there is anyone they would trade Rubio for right now.

Rubio has to be the most famous average player. Before he set foot on an NBA court the hype surrounding him was absurd. The guy was average in Europe, and judging by his rookie year he will average in the NBA. As far as Love goes I see him as an overrated stat-stuffer. He puts historical number almost every game with little to no impact on the game. His defense also leaves a lot to be desired. Big Baby schooled him last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlppC2RfPwM
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: alajet on December 18, 2012, 04:35:39 PM
How about one of these deals with Milwaukee:

Rondo for Jennings, Larry Sanders and Mbah a Moute....or..

Rondo and Lee for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute ...or...

Rondo and Bass for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute?

Rondo doesn't net you Jennings plus two players, especially one being Sanders.

For the rest, Bucks would not be willing to make a 1-2 out of Rondo and Jennings, so, they'd say no.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: FatjohnReturns on December 18, 2012, 05:05:15 PM
Rondo for Paul Milsap
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 18, 2012, 05:08:17 PM
How about one of these deals with Milwaukee:

Rondo for Jennings, Larry Sanders and Mbah a Moute....or..

Rondo and Lee for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute ...or...

Rondo and Bass for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute?

Rondo doesn't net you Jennings plus two players, especially one being Sanders.

For the rest, Bucks would not be willing to make a 1-2 out of Rondo and Jennings, so, they'd say no.

Dead wrong. Milwaukee would take deal one, then when the papers came through, the whole front office would record their own remake of the "Super Bowl Shuffle" at the Karaoke Bar while doing copious Jagerbombs toasting Danny Ainge, then post it to YouTube.

One problem for them: the Cs would never consider it.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: fitzhickey on December 18, 2012, 05:15:14 PM
just for kicks and giggles, who says no to this trade?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqewvxg

Rondo, Lee, Sullinger

for

Love, Rubio

Not the Wolves, unfortunately.  I don't think there is anyone they would trade Rubio for right now.

Rubio has to be the most famous average player. Before he set foot on an NBA court the hype surrounding him was absurd. The guy was average in Europe, and judging by his rookie year he will average in the NBA. As far as Love goes I see him as an overrated stat-stuffer. He puts historical number almost every game with little to no impact on the game. His defense also leaves a lot to be desired. Big Baby schooled him last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlppC2RfPwM
Yah, tp. They are both overrated in my mind
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: D.o.s. on December 18, 2012, 05:21:42 PM
Did you guys see Rubio's assist to Steamer the other night?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3kkhon4HA

He's a one-of-a-kind passer with great court vision who doesn't shoot very well. He's also very young, with plenty of time to improve.


Gee, that sounds like something I've heard a lot the last few years... ;)
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: arctic 3.0 on December 18, 2012, 05:55:17 PM
lamarcus aldridge
anthony davis

young skilled big with a superstar ceiling
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: 2short on December 18, 2012, 06:52:59 PM
Did you guys see Rubio's assist to Steamer the other night?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3kkhon4HA

He's a one-of-a-kind passer with great court vision who doesn't shoot very well. He's also very young, with plenty of time to improve.


Gee, that sounds like something I've heard a lot the last few years... ;)
Rubio is pistol pete without the shooting.  I do not however view him as I first did Rondo ie a huge ceiling.  Rondo is still improving in big strides and looking like a guy that could AVERAGE close to a triple double and be a very good defender.  Ricky has the offensive game and amazing court vision but he doesn't have all the tools to be great, especially in this point guard dominated league.  Hopefully he can fully recover from his knee injury as his passing is good for basketball in general.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: fitzhickey on December 18, 2012, 07:11:00 PM
lamarcus aldridge
anthony davis

young skilled big with a superstar ceiling
Lamarcus is 27
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: arctic 3.0 on December 18, 2012, 07:28:34 PM
lamarcus aldridge
anthony davis

young skilled big with a superstar ceiling
Lamarcus is 27

your point?
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: lightspeed5 on December 18, 2012, 08:11:19 PM
lamarcus aldridge
anthony davis

young skilled big with a superstar ceiling
Lamarcus is 27

your point?
he's hit his ceiling obviously
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: tonyto3690 on December 20, 2012, 12:57:04 PM

Try this

Rondo and Bass to Cleveland for
Irving and Varaejo

not bad sadly varejaos injuries worries me toooooo much
[/quote]
lol this is a joke right?

If we were giving a value worth:

Rondo 9
Bass 3

Irving 8
Varagina 9

on top of that, good defensive bigs who can rebound and score are at a premium in the NBA.  point guards are a dime a dozen.  now rondo is a very special pg, but the drop off of getting a vet PG (Barbosa) is not nearly as big as a vet min big (Darko/Collins).  on top of that, the premium bigs get paid a heck of a lot more and Varagina is on a dirt cheap contract. he's barely getting paid anymore than Asik is right now and Varagina is twice the player that Asik is in every aspect of the game.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: ssspence on December 20, 2012, 01:03:56 PM
lamarcus aldridge
anthony davis

young skilled big with a superstar ceiling
Lamarcus is 27

your point?
he's hit his ceiling obviously

even if they didn't have Lillard, i doubt POR would trade Aldridge for Rondo. NOH would clearly not trade Davis for Rondo.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: csfansince60s on December 20, 2012, 01:40:10 PM
How about one of these deals with Milwaukee:

Rondo for Jennings, Larry Sanders and Mbah a Moute....or..

Rondo and Lee for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute ...or...

Rondo and Bass for Ellis, Sanders and Mbah a Moute?

Rondo doesn't net you Jennings plus two players, especially one being Sanders.

For the rest, Bucks would not be willing to make a 1-2 out of Rondo and Jennings, so, they'd say no.

Dead wrong. Milwaukee would take deal one, then when the papers came through, the whole front office would record their own remake of the "Super Bowl Shuffle" at the Karaoke Bar while doing copious Jagerbombs toasting Danny Ainge, then post it to YouTube.

One problem for them: the Cs would never consider it.

Interesting that two posters view Rondo for Jennings, Sanders and Mbah a Moute as so one-sided....but one poster thinks that it's one-sided favoring the  Bucks and the other the Cs.

Maybe that means it's a balanced trade.

Bucks may lose Jennings for nothing at season's end. To get Rondo would obviously be huge....BUT....they need to give to get, so Sanders/Mbah a Moute is the price. Throw in a 1st, either way to make it work.

We get a legit, talented scoring point guard in Jennings who is a decent defender and whose assists will go up with this team. We get a young athletic rebounder  and rim protector in Sanders who could be with us for years and an athletic 3 in Mbah a Moute who is an excellent defender and is coming around offensively.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Edgar on December 20, 2012, 01:45:27 PM
good rondo or bad rondo?

p.s. I admit the second is an endangered specie
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: nostar on December 20, 2012, 04:10:49 PM
It would take a lot for me. There are less than 10 guys in the NBA that I'd consider trading Rondo straight up for. Think KD/LBJ/CP3/Kyrie/Rose. I fundamentally believe Rondo is on their level skill-wise. Now remember that no GM in their right might would make that swap.

There are, however, combinations that intrigue me:

Evans/Cousins
Drummond/Monroe
Curry/Barnes (or Thompson if you're worried about Curry's ankles)
Conley/Gay
Jennings/LRMM/Sanders
Rubio/Love
Wall/Beal

I guess my point is that if we can move a superstar in Rondo for two (likely) all-stars then I'm listening. Again most GMs wouldn't do something like this but stranger things have happened for sure.

Now go ahead and say I have homer-love for Rondo and way over-value him :) I do-do-do-do-do!
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: fugazzi24 on December 20, 2012, 04:21:59 PM
Trade Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green

Receive Eric Gordon, Robin Lopez and Austin Rivers


Doc gets to coach his son, although he would never play him because he is a rookie. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: fugazzi24 on December 21, 2012, 02:33:13 PM
Big Trade

Boston Out - Rondo, Melo, Collins, Sullinger and Bradley
Boston IN- Cousins, Evans, Dragic

Phoenix Out- Gortat and Dragic
Phoenix IN- Rondo, Melo, Collins

Sacramento Out- Cousins, Evans
Sacramento In- Gortat, Sullinger, Bradley

I like it, alsoas a side trade we send Courtney Lee to Minnesota for Derrick Williams.  They need a SG that can play defense and we take a flyer on Willams. 
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: KG Living Legend on February 04, 2017, 06:54:28 AM
No...I'd keep Rondo.




 Bumped.

. Look how ridiculous it is that the first three posters actually said no to this proposed trade.

 How silly does that look now.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: greece666 on February 04, 2017, 07:26:59 AM
@KGLL

I really like the idea of taking a fresh look at what was discussed in the past. It can be really instructive (and I say this despite having written plenty of silly things I feel ashamed of now).

But to be fair to the users who wrote 'No', this thread is more than 4 years old. We are talking of a pre-ACL tear Rondo.

To be honest, I'm p sure that if I were in the forums back then, I would have opposed the idea of trading RR for  IT too.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: chilidawg on February 04, 2017, 08:06:09 AM
Pretty funny how valued Rondo was, and how quickly he's fallen.  Hindsight is a beautiful thing.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Moranis on February 04, 2017, 08:49:28 AM
There were a lot of threads on Rondo back then with many posters vastly over rating him at the time.  Same thing that happens now with many players.  It is a typical fan i.e. over rating your own players.
Title: Re: Would you trade Rondo For..
Post by: Donoghus on February 04, 2017, 11:08:36 AM
No need to be bumping 4+ year old threads for the purpose of calling out posters/making people look bad.   

Locked.