CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondohondo on December 13, 2012, 09:34:14 AM
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“I was in a good situation in Memphis at the time,” said Mayo. “Obviously, Boston is a big-time organization as well. Great players. It would’ve been an honor to play with KG [Kevin Garnett], [Paul] Pierce and [Rajon] Rondo. It would’ve been great to play with those guys and with [Celtics coach] Doc [Rivers].”
Instead, Mayo blamed the deal’s failure on an internal debate between C’s players and the front office over Allen’s future.
“I was pretty much set to come here and something fell through at the very last second,” said Mayo, who collected 24 points (10-19 FG), six rebounds, three assists and two steals in Wednesday night’s loss to the Celtics. “A couple of the guys wanted to keep Ray, and management wanted to make the trade.
http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/12/13/o-j-mayo-wouldve-been-an-honor-to-play-for-celtics/
Ugh this disgusts me if true. If Danny and Doc are letting players have input on trades, that is a bad thing .
We could have had Mayo here and our MLE to spend on a big man instead of Terry....
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Agents are powerful in the NBA, and Danny is one of the best in the league at taking advantage of his relationships with them to get good deals.
Danny also lived through the teams chemistry basically falling apart the last time he traded a key member of the team in midseason, when not everyone was on board with the trade.
So, while I agree that Danny needs to keep what's best for the team ahead of what the players want, those two things are often intertwined.
...although (and I hate to re-open this discussion, but it seems relevant), this does make the fact that Ray left being seen as such an affront by people in the front office, as well as players, make a lot more sense. If a couple of those guys stood up for Ray last year, and Danny and Doc gave in, to make Ray and the others happy...I can see why they were not happy with him going to Miami during the summer.
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...although (and I hate to re-open this discussion, but it seems relevant), this does make the fact that Ray left being seen as such an affront by people in the front office, as well as players, make a lot more sense. If a couple of those guys stood up for Ray last year, and Danny and Doc gave in, to make Ray and the others happy...I can see why they were not happy with him going to Miami during the summer.
I was going to make the same point, but you are right. Looks like Ray is an even bigger traitor now after his teammates stuck up for him and killed the deal.
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I have always thought that OJ is going to be a good player eventually, however, had the trade gone through, we certainly would have a different make up this yr., Yes probably no Jet. Although to be fair, he might also not have a breakout season like what he is having now because our offense when stagnant still runs through PP, Mayo is certainly impressive at his current pace as he is being given the freedom in the current system he is playing on.
It is a shame though that the trade didn't push through, I myself am completely for this trade...For some reason, I have always thought Ray was going to leave no matter what in the offseason and he did.
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Im not so sure I buy this report. If the players on the Celtics have input and stopped a Ray Allen trade, then I cant see these same Celtics giving Celtics management the green light to get rid of Perkins.
Maybe because of the backlash of the Perk trade Danny was hesitant to pull the trigger so quickly a second time around? Which is too bad, I would love love love to have Mayo on this team. I supported the trade last year and I still would have liked to see it happen in hindsight.
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Danny is smart. One day in the future we'll be a rebuilding team and it'll be more important than ever to be seen as a team who keeps their players happy.
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Makes sense. Always had a tough time believing Mayo squashed the deal. Never stood right with me. So I believe him when he says it wasn't him that stopped the deal.
Anyway, OJ Mayo is no loss. Danny got the superior player in Jason Terry this summer.
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...although (and I hate to re-open this discussion, but it seems relevant), this does make the fact that Ray left being seen as such an affront by people in the front office, as well as players, make a lot more sense. If a couple of those guys stood up for Ray last year, and Danny and Doc gave in, to make Ray and the others happy...I can see why they were not happy with him going to Miami during the summer.
I was going to make the same point, but you are right. Looks like Ray is an even bigger trader now after his teammates stuck up for him and killed the deal.
I still don't think he is a traitor (this is why I hated to bring it up), because this is all about perception. Unless Ray said to Danny that he shouldn't trade him, because he wants to finish his career in Boston, then I can't put that much on Ray.
Ray did what he felt was best for himself and his family, just like Danny did what he felt was best for the team, when he arranged the trade, and then when he ultimately pulled out of it.
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Makes sense. Always had a tough time believing Mayo squashed the deal. Never stood right with me. So I believe him when he says it wasn't him that stopped the deal.
Anyway, OJ Mayo is no loss. Danny got the superior player in Jason Terry this summer.
25 yr old Mayo and Mle to spend on a big man > Terry
C's were also going to get a 1st round pick in the deal..
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as a Cs fan reading this makes me sick,
We could have made a play for a big with the MLE ( Chris Kaman?)
OJ would have been a perfect fit, his ability to be a volume scorer would have been a perfect piece for the present and future. Rondo, Mayo and AB all compliment each other perfectly as a 1/2 rotation with AB backing up both positions. The post paul pierce celtics team would have been off to an even better projected start (I still like the future but OJ over LEE would have been huge)
PG Rondo
SG OJ
SF Green
PF Sully
C ?????
6th AB
7th Bass
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...although (and I hate to re-open this discussion, but it seems relevant), this does make the fact that Ray left being seen as such an affront by people in the front office, as well as players, make a lot more sense. If a couple of those guys stood up for Ray last year, and Danny and Doc gave in, to make Ray and the others happy...I can see why they were not happy with him going to Miami during the summer.
I was going to make the same point, but you are right. Looks like Ray is an even bigger trader now after his teammates stuck up for him and killed the deal.
I still don't think he is a traitor (this is why I hated to bring it up), because this is all about perception. Unless Ray said to Danny that he shouldn't trade him, because he wants to finish his career in Boston, then I can't put that much on Ray.
Ray did what he felt was best for himself and his family, just like Danny did what he felt was best for the team, when he arranged the trade, and then when he ultimately pulled out of it.
Your definition of being a traitor is a little bizzare. You could probably argue that there's never been a traitor in sports by your definition.
At the very least Ray was a selfish baby scoffing at twice as much money and as close to being a 'traitor' as there is. Does that sound better? Im sure moving to Miami for 2the years and taking his kids away from their schools and hospitals was a family decision. That's such a joke. Beloved whatbyou want to believe but this was certainly all about him him him.
Basically he could move anywhere in the world and you could argue "he did what's best for his family". What a complete cop out.
I don't even care much since we are talking about a game but as far as sports goes Ray flipped about the biggest bird you can to this franchise. There's literally not one comparable situation of this happening
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as a Cs fan reading this makes me sick,
We could have made a play for a big with the MLE ( Chris Kaman?)
OJ would have been a perfect fit, his ability to be a volume scorer would have been a perfect piece for the present and future. Rondo, Mayo and AB all compliment each other perfectly as a 1/2 rotation with AB backing up both positions. The post paul pierce celtics team would have been off to an even better projected start (I still like the future but OJ over LEE would have been huge)
PG Rondo
SG OJ
SF Green
PF Sully
C ?????
6th AB
7th Bass
Kaman got a one year $8 million deal from Dallas. I doubt an MLE deal would have gotten it done and there's no way Danny would give Kaman and his recent injury woes more than a year or two.
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I think Ray left because pretty much everything about his situation here reminded him that he was in decline as a player. That includes the Mayo non-deal, Avery Bradley supplanting him, his difficulties being a focal point of the offense, etc.
Miami was a fresh start with a simpler role - and don't underestimate the value of having an opt-out after this year. If they win a ring and Ray plays an important part, he'll be making back a lot of the money he left on the table.
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Your definition of being a traitor is a little bizzare. You could probably argue that there's never been a traitor in sports by your definition.
Actually, that kind of is what I am arguing. Sports isn't war, its a business. Loyalty is for fans, not players.
Edit: the one exception I might make is for someone like Boozer, who may not be a traitor, but he is pretty unethical for manipulating his release and then breaking his verbal agreement, in order to take more money elsewhere.
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Wow, if this is true, then shame on Danny Ainge. OJ Mayo could've easily been a difference maker in the Miami series in the playoffs and Ray Allen ended up leaving for Miami, anyway!
Is it me or has Ainge not exactly done a stellar job since the KG trade, which was 5 years ago?!
Not to mention, he also got kinda lucky with Kevin McHale on that one
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Danny is smart. One day in the future we'll be a rebuilding team and it'll be more important than ever to be seen as a team who keeps their players happy.
I am not following you. The priority of any GM should be to put the best team on the court, not "rebuilding" and not trying to keep smiles on the players faces.
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Makes sense. Always had a tough time believing Mayo squashed the deal. Never stood right with me. So I believe him when he says it wasn't him that stopped the deal.
Anyway, OJ Mayo is no loss. Danny got the superior player in Jason Terry this summer.
Hmmm, don't agree with that. I like Terry but he's a hit or miss player and somewhat one-dimensional (as in a spot-up shooter.) OJ is alot more versatile than that.
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Makes sense. Always had a tough time believing Mayo squashed the deal. Never stood right with me. So I believe him when he says it wasn't him that stopped the deal.
Anyway, OJ Mayo is no loss. Danny got the superior player in Jason Terry this summer.
I thought that too coming into the season - and I'm sure utilization is helping Mayo look better and Terry is adjusting to a different situation, but I'm not loving Terry so far. I don't think Mayo over RA makes a huge difference in last year's playoffs - not sure he could be fully integrated after a mid season trade.
Let's say that instead of Terry and Lee - Danny spends the MLE on a big man. Signs Pietrus (or Barbosa or both) to help hold down the fort until AB is back. I think that's at least as good as a roster as now, maybe better.
In terms of why KG is so mad at Ray Allen - here's my speculation:
1. Ray finds out through agent he's going to be traded for Mayo
2. Ray tells KG and Pierce
3. KG goes to bat for Ray
4. Doc gets squeamish about trade b/c of KG
5. Danny backs out of trade b/c of KG and Doc
6. Ray leaves in offseason despite same role and bigger money & years with C's
7. KG never talks to Ray again
I cannot see Pierce caring so much about losing a team mate - but I might be wrong.
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Who is the MLE big man is the question.
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Danny is smart. One day in the future we'll be a rebuilding team and it'll be more important than ever to be seen as a team who keeps their players happy.
I am not following you. The priority of any GM should be to put the best team on the court, not "rebuilding" and not trying to keep smiles on the players faces.
I don't think Ray vs Mayo is a huge difference in last year's playoffs personally. Mayo better player at that point, but Ray knew system.
I think his point is long term getting FAs depends on players liking the team management. This leads to a good team on floor. I think GM job is to balance best team in any given year versus long term health within ownerships budget constraints. That's not the same as putting best team on the floor.
Just a hypothetical - what if trading Ray mid season -> KG leaving in offseason?
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Who is the MLE big man is the question.
Good question. I hadn't got that far, Camby?
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Makes sense. Always had a tough time believing Mayo squashed the deal. Never stood right with me. So I believe him when he says it wasn't him that stopped the deal.
Anyway, OJ Mayo is no loss. Danny got the superior player in Jason Terry this summer.
Hmmm, don't agree with that. I like Terry but he's a hit or miss player and somewhat one-dimensional (as in a spot-up shooter.) OJ is alot more versatile than that.
Jason Terry isn't a one dimensional offensive player. It just seems that way because of how he is being used here in Boston. Terry is a very capable ball-handler, shot-creator and secondary playmaker. Everything is running through Rondo or Pierce so Terry isn't getting the opportunities to show his full repertoire of offensive talents.
Both Terry and Mayo are very similar offensively in their range of skills offensively. Ball-handling, passing, different types of shots they are capable of making.
Terry, however, is (1) one of the finest shooters in the league, better than Mayo (2) more consistent / reliable than Mayo (3) more adept at playing off the bench (4) has a much better track record of clutch performances and in big games.
Mayo is a better defender/rebounder than Terry but Mayo is still not good enough defensively to be a quality starting two guard in the league.
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Makes sense. Always had a tough time believing Mayo squashed the deal. Never stood right with me. So I believe him when he says it wasn't him that stopped the deal.
Anyway, OJ Mayo is no loss. Danny got the superior player in Jason Terry this summer.
Hmmm, don't agree with that. I like Terry but he's a hit or miss player and somewhat one-dimensional (as in a spot-up shooter.) OJ is alot more versatile than that.
While I agree about that, I think Terry's ability and willingness to be a secondary player, and step up when needed, really makes him a better fit for the C's, even if he is not as good an overall player.
Mayo really needs to have the ball in his hands to be really effective, while Terry can play off it a little better.
In terms of why KG is so mad at Ray Allen - here's my speculation:
1. Ray finds out through agent he's going to be traded for Mayo
2. Ray tells KG and Pierce
3. KG goes to bat for Ray
4. Doc gets squeamish about trade b/c of KG
5. Danny backs out of trade b/c of KG and Doc
6. Ray leaves in offseason despite same role and bigger money & years with C's
7. KG never talks to Ray again
That's exactly how I think it went down too.
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Who is the MLE big man is the question.
Good question. I hadn't got that far, Camby?
Kaman, Camby, Robin Lopez off the top of my head, we would hat got a 1st rnd pick also.
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In terms of why KG is so mad at Ray Allen - here's my speculation:
1. Ray finds out through agent he's going to be traded for Mayo
2. Ray tells KG and Pierce
3. KG goes to bat for Ray
4. Doc gets squeamish about trade b/c of KG
5. Danny backs out of trade b/c of KG and Doc
6. Ray leaves in offseason despite same role and bigger money & years with C's
7. KG never talks to Ray again
I cannot see Pierce caring so much about losing a team mate - but I might be wrong.
I think this could well be accurate, except I think Pierce might've had something to say about it too. But KG would've been the guy to really push back against it.
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Who is the MLE big man is the question.
Good question. I hadn't got that far, Camby?
Then we dodged a bullet, because Camby has been useless so far this year, and the Knicks paid him a LOT of money.
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Camby, Lavoy Allen, and Greg Stiemsma are the three names I've seen so far that MLE money would have landed easily enough.
I'll take Terry over those three, I'm still looking if I missed someone.
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Who is the MLE big man is the question.
Good question. I hadn't got that far, Camby?
Then we dodged a bullet, because Camby has been useless so far this year, and the Knicks paid him a LOT of money.
Kaman or Lopez?
Or just not spend the MLE. Save it for buyouts.
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I'd rate Carl Landry and Kwame Brown as the two best available MLE big men.
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Camby, Lavoy Allen, and Greg Stiemsma are the three names I've seen so far that MLE money would have landed easily enough.
I'll take Terry over those three, I'm still looking if I missed someone.
Add Kwame Brown to that list, he got 2 years 5 million with second year being a player option from Philly.
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Who is the MLE big man is the question.
Good question. I hadn't got that far, Camby?
Then we dodged a bullet, because Camby has been useless so far this year, and the Knicks paid him a LOT of money.
Kaman or Lopez?
Or just not spend the MLE. Save it for buyouts.
MLE decreases as the season goes, so by the time buyout are around its not much more than the minimum.
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I'd rate Carl Landry and Kwame Brown as the two best available MLE big men.
So yeah, Danny getting Terry was the right move. Just not anyone I'd take over Terry for the MLE to get the C's some more size.
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“I was in a good situation in Memphis at the time,” said Mayo. “Obviously, Boston is a big-time organization as well. Great players. It would’ve been an honor to play with KG [Kevin Garnett], [Paul] Pierce and [Rajon] Rondo. It would’ve been great to play with those guys and with [Celtics coach] Doc [Rivers].”
Instead, Mayo blamed the deal’s failure on an internal debate between C’s players and the front office over Allen’s future.
“I was pretty much set to come here and something fell through at the very last second,” said Mayo, who collected 24 points (10-19 FG), six rebounds, three assists and two steals in Wednesday night’s loss to the Celtics. “A couple of the guys wanted to keep Ray, and management wanted to make the trade.
http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/12/13/o-j-mayo-wouldve-been-an-honor-to-play-for-celtics/
Ugh this disgusts me if true. If Danny and Doc are letting players have input on trades, that is a bad thing .
We could have had Mayo here and our MLE to spend on a big man instead of Terry....
that doesn't surprise me, and I am not disgusted. I mean come on, remember the Perkins trade, that killed everyone in the locker room. I mean yeh Jeff Green is a better player but Perk was a brother. And at that time, Ray Allen was still a brother, of course he doesn't think of us as brothers now, but he was. Trading him at that point would've killed our locker room. And I doubt the chemistry at that point would've been good enough to face the Heat.
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Well, regardless of the big men they could have signed, there are also two issues.
First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
Second, the C's nearly made the finals last year, and based on previous history with big, midseason trades that affect the teams core, this team might have fallen apart down the stretch, had they made the trade, and not had that run. That would be a steep price to pay.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
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MLE decreases as the season goes, so by the time buyout are around its not much more than the minimum.
MLE is prorated, but so is the minimum.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
I think in the long run, Lee's defensive ability will be more useful to our team than Mayo's scoring anyway.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
I think in the long run, Lee's defensive ability will be more useful to our team than Mayo's scoring anyway.
If he can get his head straight on the three pointers, I agree. Otherwise, I am not so sure Lee will be seeing the minutes in the longrun.
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Wow... I really REALLY HATED reading that.
No doubt this is on KG. They were likely scared he would retire. Clearly it wasn't Rajon seeing as how he didn't really care for Ray at that point. It might have been Pierce but he was under contract for two more years.
Had to be KG. At the time he was just starting to play elite at Center and i am sure they had see more then a few glimpses in practice that he still had it.
That's garbage! Mayo, a 2012 first (Perry Jones III, etc.), and the MLE to still get a guy like Terry or Carl Landry?! We gave up all that for a guy who gave us the finger on his way to our Eastern nemesis in Miami.
People say we wouldn't get Terry? Bradley was out still. Just sub in Mayo's name for Lee or Ray, who were both going to play with or are playing with Terry now.
A young core of assets in Green, Mayo, Rondo, Bradley, (Jones III or other rookie), Sullinger, and Melo would have allowed us opportunities to make moves that put us back in contention 2-3 years after the Kg and Pierce era.
Don't care what anyone else says. Allowing players to dictate the squashing of that move set us back.
Pathetic!
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
He couldn't walk. He was restricted.
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Wow... I really REALLY HATED reading that.
No doubt this is on KG. They were likely scared he would retire. Clearly it wasn't Rajon seeing as how he didn't really care for Ray at that point. It might have been Pierce but he was under contract for two more years.
Had to be KG. At the time he was just starting to play elite at Center and i am sure they had see more then a few glimpses in practice that he still had it.
That's garbage! Mayo, a 2012 first (Perry Jones III, etc.), and the MLE to still get a guy like Terry or Carl Landry?! We gave up all that for a guy who gave us the finger on his way to our Eastern nemesis in Miami.
People say we wouldn't get Terry? Bradley was out still. Just sub in Mayo's name for Lee or Ray, who were both going to play with or are playing with Terry now.
A young core of assets in Green, Mayo, Rondo, Bradley, (Jones III or other rookie), Sullinger, and Melo would have allowed us opportunities to make moves that put us back in contention 2-3 years after the Kg and Pierce era.
Don't care what anyone else says. Allowing players to dictate the squashing of that move set us back.
Pathetic!
This would explain why KG looked to be the most upset by Ray going to the heat. If this is true, then KG stood up for Ray, got a trade that was good for the team nixed to keep Ray, and then Ray gave him and the rest the finger on the way out anyway because Doc and Danny didn't pamper him enough and overpay him. Ugh
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
He couldn't walk. He was restricted.
I'd forgotten that he would have been a RFA.
He still could have just taken the QO and played the year out, in fact that's likely what he'd have done unless Boston offered him a lot more than I'd liked based on how much he seemed to be asking.
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If this is true, it shows you why you have to take emotion out of all decisions. Ainge should have pulled the trigger like he did on the Perkins trade.
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Wow... I really REALLY HATED reading that.
No doubt this is on KG. They were likely scared he would retire. Clearly it wasn't Rajon seeing as how he didn't really care for Ray at that point. It might have been Pierce but he was under contract for two more years.
Had to be KG. At the time he was just starting to play elite at Center and i am sure they had see more then a few glimpses in practice that he still had it.
That's garbage! Mayo, a 2012 first (Perry Jones III, etc.), and the MLE to still get a guy like Terry or Carl Landry?! We gave up all that for a guy who gave us the finger on his way to our Eastern nemesis in Miami.
People say we wouldn't get Terry? Bradley was out still. Just sub in Mayo's name for Lee or Ray, who were both going to play with or are playing with Terry now.
A young core of assets in Green, Mayo, Rondo, Bradley, (Jones III or other rookie), Sullinger, and Melo would have allowed us opportunities to make moves that put us back in contention 2-3 years after the Kg and Pierce era.
Don't care what anyone else says. Allowing players to dictate the squashing of that move set us back.
Pathetic!
I agree. Since when was KG the GM of the Boston Celtics? This is one of the many instances in where players have gotten way too much power and autonomy in sports! It should be up to the GM to decide who stays and who goes, not the players!
Since when can I go up to my boss and request who else works for the company that signs my check and who doesn't?
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Let's not forget context.
At the time of the trading deadline the Celtics were mired in a slump, Bradley was starting to show signs of his shot coming around and Ray had cooled off and been fairly inconsistent for a while after his hot start.
I think the switch to Bradley starting was right around the corner, whether Ray hurt himself or not. His defense was becoming game changing and the bench needed scoring as the bench offense was anemic.
Also, Mayo wasn't exactly lighting it up either. As a matter of fact he was probably playing some of the worse ball of his career.
So it may not have taken a whole lot of convincing on any of the player's part or Doc's part to have Danny pull out of the deal. Bradley looked to be the future and his shoulders hadn't become a problem yet. Mayo wasn't looking so good and Doc was still convinced he could ride the core of this team for one more run.
So even though Mayo is having a breakout year, I don't believe anyone thought at the trading deadline that Mayo would be playing like he has this year. In the end, Danny did the right thing as the C's took Miami to the brink in the playoffs.
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A lot of this is hindsight. We are evaluating the Ray trade with the knowledge that (a) he got hurt, and (b) Mayo blew up this year. But if anyone involved knew even one of those things, much less both, Memphis would have hung up the phone.
Also, count me as less than impressed even with Mayo's performance this year. He's shooting 52% from 3 this year after being at 36% the last two years, and I would bet his % over the next three years is closer to the career average than to 50%.
And, while he is a versatile offensive player, he showed last night that as a go-to guy in the clutch, he is also turnover prone.
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Hindsight shows us we made the wrong decision for sure. And we Did.
But Ray Allen with bone spurs at 37 is better then 23 OJ Mayo fully healthy? Plus you give us a first rounder in a deep draft?
We took Miami to 7 last year and had them down 3-2 mostly in spite of Ray Allen. His defense and even his shooting were poor. He was missing free throws and shooting the worst percentages of his playoff career. Granted he was one one leg, but he was banged up and slumping while this deal was being discussed.
We might actually beat Miami with Mayo and then who knows against OKC. I mean they clearly choked in the biggest moments on the biggest stage last year.
The trade deadline last year was 3/15 and he went out 3/22. They knew around then he was having issues with the ankle.
Danny was going to do the deal for a reason - b/c it was a good deal. Otherwise he doesn't. Instead he didn't do his job which is to be the GM. Players play. Coaches coach. GMs manage rosters. Everyone got outside their roles and it came back to bite us.
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A lot of this is hindsight. We are evaluating the Ray trade with the knowledge that (a) he got hurt, and (b) Mayo blew up this year. But if anyone involved knew even one of those things, much less both, Memphis would have hung up the phone.
Also, count me as less than impressed even with Mayo's performance this year. He's shooting 52% from 3 this year after being at 36% the last two years, and I would bet his % over the next three years is closer to the career average than to 50%.
And, while he is a versatile offensive player, he showed last night that as a go-to guy in the clutch, he is also turnover prone.
^^^Yes. How average Mayo looked last season is the only reason he was available. If the C's traded Ray who's to say KG doesn't retire? Too many other factors at the time of the trade to consider. Keep in mind that Mayo is playing for a big payday this season as well.
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A lot of this is hindsight. We are evaluating the Ray trade with the knowledge that (a) he got hurt, and (b) Mayo blew up this year. But if anyone involved knew even one of those things, much less both, Memphis would have hung up the phone.
Also, count me as less than impressed even with Mayo's performance this year. He's shooting 52% from 3 this year after being at 36% the last two years, and I would bet his % over the next three years is closer to the career average than to 50%.
And, while he is a versatile offensive player, he showed last night that as a go-to guy in the clutch, he is also turnover prone.
I don't think that its a coincidence that Mayo blew up.
Maybe im giving Danny too much credit but I think these were his projections. So far he seemed to aggressively go after guys who have turned pretty impressive. Mayo, Harden, west and to a lesser extent Green.
The only one he made out on was Green and clearly he values him high with his new contract. We'll see if that projection is another good call on his part or not
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Welp, this is infuriating.
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i also heard that Pierce killed his trade to the Nets, but it's been reported differently by different people.
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I'm not really sure why so many people ran with the "Mayo killed the deal" story when the source was Donny Marshall. Honestly, this scenario makes a lot more sense. After the Perkins debacle, I could definitely see the vets (especially KG and Paul) not supporting another midseason shake up. And then when you factor in the fact the it would've been Ray in the trade - their one time brother - and I could see this being an issue behind the scenes.
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I'm not really sure why so many people ran with the "Mayo killed the deal" story when the source was Donny Marshall. Honestly, this scenario makes a lot more sense. After the Perkins debacle, I could definitely see the vets (especially KG and Paul) not supporting another midseason shake up. And then when you factor in the fact the it would've been Ray in the trade - their one time brother - and I could see this being an issue behind the scenes.
Not sure what the "debacle" was. Were they worried that Mayo may need heart surgery this season?
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
I think in the long run, Lee's defensive ability will be more useful to our team than Mayo's scoring anyway.
If he can get his head straight on the three pointers, I agree. Otherwise, I am not so sure Lee will be seeing the minutes in the longrun.
Mayo withstanding...
yup....Lee has good effort , I want him to be all that we hope... if he dosen't pick up/step up his offensive share, like Jeff Green as done in the next 4-5 weeks ....I believe Danny will trade him. ...good defense or not. Once AB comes back given his present output Lee may not be around.
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A lot of this is hindsight. We are evaluating the Ray trade with the knowledge that (a) he got hurt, and (b) Mayo blew up this year. But if anyone involved knew even one of those things, much less both, Memphis would have hung up the phone.
Also, count me as less than impressed even with Mayo's performance this year. He's shooting 52% from 3 this year after being at 36% the last two years, and I would bet his % over the next three years is closer to the career average than to 50%.
And, while he is a versatile offensive player, he showed last night that as a go-to guy in the clutch, he is also turnover prone.
I don't think that its a coincidence that Mayo blew up.
Maybe im giving Danny too much credit but I think these were his projections. So far he seemed to aggressively go after guys who have turned pretty impressive. Mayo, Harden, west and to a lesser extent Green.
The only one he made out on was Green and clearly he values him high with his new contract. We'll see if that projection is another good call on his part or not
Well I mean part of a GM's job is to scout and analyze as many players as possible. Get a good red read on their skill-set and envision how it could translate over to their team with the current personnel they have in place.
Did you see how OJ was utilized yesterday? A lot of his plays were coming off screens just like we did with Ray.
If you can remember far back enough when Ray was in Milwaukee then you might see some similarities between present day OJ and early Milwaukee Ray. Ray ran point a fair amount of time for the Bucks back then. He handled the ball a lot. OJ looks like a poorer man's version of Milwaukee Ray to me.
I could see Ainge or anyone else drawing that comparison as well and thus envisioning a good fit for Mayo with this current Celtic's team.
Now obviously he wouldn't handle the rock as much as Ray back for the Bucks. However he could still do it some and he could definitely run off screens like we did with Ray.
Also with the way is shooting he could easily hit the WIDE OPEN corner threes that Lee and even Terry just aren't getting to fall.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
I think in the long run, Lee's defensive ability will be more useful to our team than Mayo's scoring anyway.
If he can get his head straight on the three pointers, I agree. Otherwise, I am not so sure Lee will be seeing the minutes in the longrun.
Mayo withstanding...
yup....Lee has good effort , I want him to be all that we hope... if he dosen't pick up/step up his offensive share, like Jeff Green as done in the next 4-5 weeks ....I believe Danny will trade him. ...good defense or not. Once AB comes back given his present output Lee may not be around.
I think Lee is the odd man out. Unless he starts hitting that shot. His defense is ok but he won't shut people down like Tony Allen would. As a result he hurts mire then he helps if he continues to miss so many shots.
Barbosa is basically the best backup "point guard" we have and I think he will continue to see minutes. Bradley will play if he is still the player from last year. And Jet was never brought into start. He was brought into play primarily against bench players and provide 2nd unit scoring.
Thanks to AB's injury and Lee's ineptness he hasn't really gotten to play the role we brought him into play.
We aren't playing five guards consistently. I could see Lee getting PT against the Heat when and if Wade draws two quick ones on Bradley. But only when AB gets in foul trouble do I see him getting run, whenever all our guards are healthy, with the way he is currently playing.
I will say that I think it might be hard for Ainge to move Lee after he supposedly took less money to come here. That could destroy a lot of goodwill with agents, future FAs, etc..
Dream trade is Lee, Fab Melo, and a first to Phoenix for Gortat. Don't see it happening but who knows... I read Gortat might get benched.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
I think in the long run, Lee's defensive ability will be more useful to our team than Mayo's scoring anyway.
If he can get his head straight on the three pointers, I agree. Otherwise, I am not so sure Lee will be seeing the minutes in the longrun.
Mayo withstanding...
yup....Lee has good effort , I want him to be all that we hope... if he dosen't pick up/step up his offensive share, like Jeff Green as done in the next 4-5 weeks ....I believe Danny will trade him. ...good defense or not. Once AB comes back given his present output Lee may not be around.
I don't think Danny is trading anyone this season, because they are underperforming. He will trade them, because it is the price he has to pay to upgrade the team (likely with a big man). So, I actually think Lee might be more likely to be traded if he picks up his game, than if he doesn't. Because as he is playing now, he doesn't have a whole lot of value.
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First, it is not a given that Mayo would have resigned. He would have been fighting for the starting spot with Bradley last year, and if he had lost out, he might have walked, in order to find a situation where he could start and showcase himself for a bigger contract.
This is a big thing, I mean that's what he ended up doing with Dallas when the offers he got from the Suns/C's/Whomever didn't come in high enough.
Exactly. I think a lot of people get into the mindset that everyone should want to sign with the C's, but thats just not the case. This was a critical point of Mayo's career, where he needs to be able to showcase himself to show that he can be a star...and with Bradley in Boston, he had legitimate competition for the minutes to showcase himself.
I think in the long run, Lee's defensive ability will be more useful to our team than Mayo's scoring anyway.
If he can get his head straight on the three pointers, I agree. Otherwise, I am not so sure Lee will be seeing the minutes in the longrun.
Mayo withstanding...
yup....Lee has good effort , I want him to be all that we hope... if he dosen't pick up/step up his offensive share, like Jeff Green as done in the next 4-5 weeks ....I believe Danny will trade him. ...good defense or not. Once AB comes back given his present output Lee may not be around.
I don't think Danny is trading anyone this season, because they are underperforming. He will trade them, because it is the price he has to pay to upgrade the team (likely with a big man). So, I actually think Lee might be more likely to be traded if he picks up his game, than if he doesn't. Because as he is playing now, he doesn't have a whole lot of value.
I'll go along with the "not alot of value" ...he is flat out disappointing. He shoots worse than dooling , at least it seems so. ;D
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I don't think Courtney Lee's trade value has changed at all.
He has been in the league for 4 years and has long track record of productive play. On three different teams at that including Orlando when he was a starter on a team that went to the Finals.
A little blip here in Boston won't change how highly teams rate him. They know what Courtney Lee can do and what he can't do. A small little blip doesn't change that.
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As an aside, fun splits from Courtney Lee
In wins = 36% field goal percentage and 18% from three
In losses = 55% field goal percentage and 46% from three
Not a lucky charm ...
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I don't think Courtney Lee's trade value has changed at all.
He has been in the league for 4 years and has long track record of productive play. On three different teams at that including Orlando when he was a starter on a team that went to the Finals.
A little blip here in Boston won't change how highly teams rate him. They know what Courtney Lee can do and what he can't do. A small little blip doesn't change that.
I agree with this. But my point is, Danny isn't going to just decide to trade him, based on how he has played this year. He is going to trade him, because another team is going to ask for him (or, they aren't).
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I think this is spin. Mayo wants to look like a good guy being interviewed by the Boston media. Maybe he was all set to come here but that does not mean he agreed to sign an extension here, which might have gave the Celtics pause
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I can see Ainge not wanting future FA KG to become alienated if they traded Ray Allen last season.
Too bad, because Ray Allen actually went out of his way to weaken the Celtics on his way to Miami, by not asking for value and forcing a S and T there when it was clear he wanted to leave Boston.
No wonder KG took his leaving so hard. There's no doubt the Cs would be a stronger team if they made the Mayo trade. Also, Miami could be a weaker team if Allen did go to Memphis last year and liked it enough to re-up there.
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I think there are some crazy jumping to conclusions here. #1, we're assuming Mayo isn't lying to look good to the Boston media....or isn't being a little less honest than possible (maybe he didn't kill the trade, but might have said he wouldn't sign a long-term deal with Boston). #2, we're assuming KG is the main "culprit" in killing the deal - Mayo wasn't playing great and Ray was not hobbled at the time...and it seemed unlikely that Ray would leave the team if we gave him the best offer. It might very well be the case that Ainge and Doc, along w/ some consultations with the players, decided to not pull the trigger. Or...as previously reported, that Mayo blocked the trade (either by refusing it, or refusing to sign an extension - which I could understand, as this was maybe his big payday and being a role player in Boston wasn't going to pad his numbers any).
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I think this is spin. Mayo wants to look like a good guy being interviewed by the Boston media. Maybe he was all set to come here but that does not mean he agreed to sign an extension here, which might have gave the Celtics pause
Why call and tell a player, a future hall of famer, he’s been traded to another team, before issues like those have been settled?
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I hope “It’s bush league...” Gary Tanguay reads this story.
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...although (and I hate to re-open this discussion, but it seems relevant), this does make the fact that Ray left being seen as such an affront by people in the front office, as well as players, make a lot more sense. If a couple of those guys stood up for Ray last year, and Danny and Doc gave in, to make Ray and the others happy...I can see why they were not happy with him going to Miami during the summer.
I was going to make the same point, but you are right. Looks like Ray is an even bigger trader now after his teammates stuck up for him and killed the deal.
I still don't think he is a traitor (this is why I hated to bring it up), because this is all about perception. Unless Ray said to Danny that he shouldn't trade him, because he wants to finish his career in Boston, then I can't put that much on Ray.
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As I recall, in one of Ray’s interviews he gave shortly before the season started, when he addressed this subject and Danny’s phone call telling him he was traded, he said Danny asked him how he felt about it, and he replied he wanted to stay in Boston.