CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: ssspence on December 10, 2012, 05:16:38 PM
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I'm starting to think so. They've made a variety of puzzling decisions over the past 3-4 years. The Childress deal, Hakim Warrick, their refusual to discuss Steve Nash for value, and others.
The latest (to me) was signing Michael Beasley. When you're rebuilding, this is the last guy you want to commit to. Now this tweet from Shaun Powell:
Suns source: Michael Beasley is "toxic," team in tailspin, could lead to major shakeup.
I'm shocked! Seriously, what did they expect? It's hard to understand what's happening there.
PHX may be more interested in starting fresh than anything else. So, my question: would you take Beasley if it meant getting Gortat? Bass, Terry and Collins for the two of them works, as does Bass, Terry and Lee for Gortat, Scola and Beasley...
Any other ideas?
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Any other ideas?
Yes, how about a trade proposal in which we give the Suns something real (that would mean Sullinger, Bradley, and/or Melo, in case you wondered ;D).
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The Suns reportedly view Michael Beasley as "toxic," and the team's 7-game losing streak could lead to a "major shakeup."
The report stems from long-time NBA writer Shaun Powell, citing an anonymous Suns source, but there are no details about what the "shakeup" might be -- for what it's worth, Chris Broussard reports that Alvin Gentry's job is still safe. As for Beasley, his bottoming out and becoming a negative presence in Phoenix is not at all surprising given his history, though few could have predicted the bottom falling out this quickly. The Suns inked him for $18 million over three years this summer, and it already looks like a bad investment.
Source: Shaun Powell on Twitter Dec 10 - 5:23 PM
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How about that training staff though?
Nash has already missed more games for LA than he missed in his last FIVE YEARS in Phoenix!
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How about that training staff though?
Nash has already missed more games for LA than he missed in his last FIVE YEARS in Phoenix!
Tp
Seemingly the best training staff...can we trade ours for theirs. ;D
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
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Yep, Sacramento is probably second worst.
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Hard to really feel sorry for Michael Beasley at this point, but I also don't think he's been in a situation that's ideal for his development at any point in his career so far.
Probably too late for him to become anything more than a role player at this, point, unfortunately.
He strikes me as the sort of guy who would really benefit from playing overseas for a year or three to learn some discipline.
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Hard to really feel sorry for Michael Beasley at this point, but I also don't think he's been in a situation that's ideal for his development at any point in his career so far.
Probably too late for him to become anything more than a role player at this, point, unfortunately.
He strikes me as the sort of guy who would really benefit from playing overseas for a year or three to learn some discipline.
His ceiling right now is probably a Corey Magette type with Ron Artest type of issues. The combination of being disruptive and replacable makes him, indeed, very toxic.
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Hard to really feel sorry for Michael Beasley at this point, but I also don't think he's been in a situation that's ideal for his development at any point in his career so far.
Probably too late for him to become anything more than a role player at this, point, unfortunately.
He strikes me as the sort of guy who would really benefit from playing overseas for a year or three to learn some discipline.
His ceiling right now is probably a Corey Magette type with Ron Artest type of issues. The combination of being disruptive and replacable makes him, indeed, very toxic.
Yeah, I don't know the nature of any personal issues he may or may not have. At least with Artest we know that he had some psychological issues that he dealt with by seeing a psychiatrist. I don't know that Beasley isn't just a jerk, or a selfish player.
He strikes me as an Andray Blatche kind of player. The game has always been too easy for him, and he's never been forced to really work hard to earn his minutes and his shots. He's been in a winning situation before in Miami, but it doesn't seem like they really managed his development that well in Miami.
I could see Beasley becoming a key reserve for a good team a few years down the road the way Blatche has become one for the Nets this season. But he's going to have to go through some real adversity first, I think.
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Dont forget letting Amare walk and getting nothing in return
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
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Hard to really feel sorry for Michael Beasley at this point, but I also don't think he's been in a situation that's ideal for his development at any point in his career so far.
Probably too late for him to become anything more than a role player at this, point, unfortunately.
He strikes me as the sort of guy who would really benefit from playing overseas for a year or three to learn some discipline.
His ceiling right now is probably a Corey Magette type with Ron Artest type of issues. The combination of being disruptive and replacable makes him, indeed, very toxic.
Yeah, I don't know the nature of any personal issues he may or may not have. At least with Artest we know that he had some psychological issues that he dealt with by seeing a psychiatrist. I don't know that Beasley isn't just a jerk, or a selfish player.
He strikes me as an Andray Blatche kind of player. The game has always been too easy for him, and he's never been forced to really work hard to earn his minutes and his shots. He's been in a winning situation before in Miami, but it doesn't seem like they really managed his development that well in Miami.
I could see Beasley becoming a key reserve for a good team a few years down the road the way Blatche has become one for the Nets this season. But he's going to have to go through some real adversity first, I think.
I don't think Blatche has cemented himself as a solid reserve just yet. He's the same guy who happens to have a reason to give extra effort now- he was halfway out of the league a few months ago. He is still the same moron and he will mess up again.
Beasley just signed a fairly big new contract and he is playing worse than ever. Coincidence? He's not lost as a role player. He has been given every oportunity to be a main man on the Suns. He has plenty of tools but the guy just sucks as an NBA player. Maybe Jeff Green and his contract aren't so bad after all.
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Sarver is one cheap, whackt owner.
He sells draft picks (Thank you for Rondo)lets Stat, Nash and others go for nothing because he didn't want to pay them and signs Beasley at $6mil per because he was taking a flyer on someone who was recently the second overall pick in the draft.
Sarver values rookie contracts, draft picks and expirings.
Given that, lets give him Melo, Joseph, picks, cash and turn Bass and Lee into expirings from a third team for Sarver and get Gortat and swallow Beasley.
I know that doesn't seem that much for the Suns, but we are taking the "cancer", Beasley (who I still think can be something)off their hands and the way Gortat is playing, his value is at its low point.
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
What does he do well? He shoots a lot of contested long two's. He is still doing that in Phoenix. Power forward, small forward- he takes the exact same shots.
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
Lakers? Maybe too much of a circus, but Beasley seems like exactly the kind of guy the Lakers could use next to Dwight.
I don't think the Suns would be interested in a trade for Pau, obviously (nor do they have the pieces), but perhaps they could be involved as a 3rd team and get something in return for Beasley and somebody like Shannon Brown (who the Lakers sorely miss) or Jared Dudley.
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
I actually agree with you.
Its funny how many people just write off a player that's young (Beas is what, 24 now?) as damaged goods. He has a ton of talent still but needs to be around some solid vets. Just look at OJ Mayo - as recently as this summer, everyone was ready to write him off. Now he's starting to put things together in Dallas and is looking like he was worthy of his draft position.
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
Lakers? Maybe too much of a circus, but Beasley seems like exactly the kind of guy the Lakers could use next to Dwight.
I don't think the Suns would be interested in a trade for Pau, obviously (nor do they have the pieces), but perhaps they could be involved as a 3rd team and get something in return for Beasley and somebody like Shannon Brown (who the Lakers sorely miss) or Jared Dudley.
Maybe slot Phoenix in as a third team in a deal that sends Pau to Minnesota, Beasley (and parts) to LA, and Derrick Williams back to Arizona?
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Okay, the only player out of the new guys I would almost guarantee won't be traded, JET. He isn't going anywhere this season. Now, people who may be up for grabs... Sully (tough), Lee (I doubt him either seeing as he gave up money to be here), Bass, Melo, KJ, Collins (lol), Green (maybe the second least likely), Wilcox (doubtful b/c like Collins they are only vet mins and you could just use rookies).
The first least likely to be traded to me is AB but it's because of bias LOL. He can be traded unlike JET but it'd have to be a very good trade.
Why I think Jet won't be traded... he will be very important for us when the playoffs come, he is Ray's replacement even if we wanted both. He is by far the most clutch, big game changing player, energy guy, and 6th man we have all in one package (off the bench, where he belongs). I don't care what Green has been doing, I still think JET will be even more important for us off the bench.
Now, about the Suns, all they have going for them is their training staff/doctors and maybe the water there (Shaq went a entire season there being able to play every game but was only rested on some b2bs and that was only like 7 games or so)!
YES, THEY ARE POORLY RUN!!!
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
What does he do well? He shoots a lot of contested long two's. He is still doing that in Phoenix. Power forward, small forward- he takes the exact same shots.
Score the ball.
Beasley is a really good scorer. He can put the ball in the hoop in a variety of a different ways. He has a post game as a power three. A face up game where he can take his opponent off the dribble. Is a very good finisher around the basket with both hands. Has a midrange shot. Has a long two point shot. Has a three point shot. Spread the floor. He can play pick and roll, pick and pop. Excellent scorer in transition for a big forward. Can make free throws but doesn't earn many trips to the FT line.
He is an efficient scorer in many of those areas but his shot distribution between those areas is poor (like you say, too many contested long twos). Even a small improvement would make a large difference to his overall scoring efficiency.
Beasley is a 4/3 who should primarily play the power forward position because he can better defend and rebound that position. His perimeter defense against small forwards is horrific and negates any positive contributions he makes offensively. His defense at the four is below average but passable and could become average with some work.
The other area for him is to become a bit better as a passer. I don't think he'll ever become a good passer but he needs to be less of a black hole than he currently is.
I think those improvements in each are achievable and realistic for Beasley.
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Turning Bass, Lee, and Melo into Gortat and Beasley would be pretty sweet. I know people don't like Beasley, but he is a very talented player who could possibly be a very valuable player on a good team.
Look what happened with OJ Mayo - everybody was saying how much of a better fit Lee would be than him and now Mayo is averaging over 20 pts a game on a 4 mill/yr contract over two years...I am also pretty jealous of NJ getting Blatche on a minimum deal.
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I really have to look at that deal if I am Ainge. Personally I see Bass > Beasley but getting Gortat in a deal that doesn't send out Bradley or Sully is pretty sweet. No way Phoenix does it though in my opinion. Unless... they really like Fab Melo or REALLY want to get rid of Beasley.
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Turning Bass, Lee, and Melo into Gortat and Beasley would be pretty sweet. I know people don't like Beasley, but he is a very talented player who could possibly be a very valuable player on a good team.
Look what happened with OJ Mayo - everybody was saying how much of a better fit Lee would be than him and now Mayo is averaging over 20 pts a game on a 4 mill/yr contract over two years...I am also pretty jealous of NJ getting Blatche on a minimum deal.
OJ Mayo's improved play is entirely tied to his ability to shoot above 50% from beyond the three point line. If he keeps up his pace to have the third best 3PT% ever I will be more than a little surprised since he's a middling 3 point shooter over his career.
Beasley is pretty much a lost cause at this point, doesn't know how to do anything but score a moderate amount on a not so moderate amount of shots.
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No it is Washington and then Sacramento.
I would put Charlotte, Detroit (recently), Toronto, Washington definitely, and maybe even Orlando (Howard situation and return).
Phoenix is two years removed from the WCF. They were very smart in not signing Amare to a contract (worst contract in NBA).
The hedo and childress contracts were bad, but they were able to turn the hedo contract into Gortat. The Childress contract was amnestied, but a lot of people at the time liked it. Thought it was a solid buy for how he was playing in Europe as a key guy and leader.
When you look at the return Orlando got for the best Center in basketball and all the failed players they put around Howard it was pretty bad. If not for the Kg injury they never get passed us in 2009.
The bobcats have never won a playoff game. Okafor, Morrison, May, Felton, etc. They have never hit on a lotto pick. Thomas was a disaster of a signing. No one knows what the Kings are doing. Cousins and Evans should be much better and developed. Jimmer? Come on.
Dumars has been less then solid in Detroit. Darko? 'Nuff said. Could have had a dynasty with any of those other top five picks. All that money to Ben Gordon and Villanueva. All that money to Prince. Had to dump a first to move Gordon for Maggette. Recently he has looked better in the draft with Monroe and Drummond, but those guys basically fell to him. Stucky and Knight look like solid bench guys as combo guards.
Toronto is interesting. Really looked like the NBA Europe there for a while. Bargnani was a bad first overall pick. Not getting anything for Bosh was stupid b/c everyone knew he was gone. Looks like the pick they moved for Lowry will be very high. Poor decision. 40 million to Derozan? We will see. 35 mill to Amir Johnson? Not a fan. We will see about Vallencuinas but Toronto has always been a joke since Carter left other then the one year they won the division.
Still to me Washington is the worst. Never seen a firesale like I saw after the Arenas Gun thing. Which was after the Arenas contract. Then they finally move the Arenas contract for some relief and LOL use it to acquire Okafor and Ariza? They go out and get Nene who is clearly fat and happy after his big deal. Oh and John Wall has shown very little development as "a can't miss" prospect. Vesselly was a top five pick and he is riding the pine. Maybe Beal and Wall can be special.
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Turning Bass, Lee, and Melo into Gortat and Beasley would be pretty sweet. I know people don't like Beasley, but he is a very talented player who could possibly be a very valuable player on a good team.
Look what happened with OJ Mayo - everybody was saying how much of a better fit Lee would be than him and now Mayo is averaging over 20 pts a game on a 4 mill/yr contract over two years...I am also pretty jealous of NJ getting Blatche on a minimum deal.
OJ Mayo's improved play is entirely tied to his ability to shoot above 50% from beyond the three point line. If he keeps up his pace to have the third best 3PT% ever I will be more than a little surprised since he's a middling 3 point shooter over his career.
Beasley is pretty much a lost cause at this point, doesn't know how to do anything but score a moderate amount on a not so moderate amount of shots.
Tend to agree re: Beasley. I don't think he's likely to have some sort of revelation. If I coached him, I'd play him 12 mins per as a back-up 4, tell him if his number of rebounds, assists, blocks and steals combined don't equal his number of shot attempts on that given night he sits the next game until he does it.
I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).
I don't really see Beasley playing much. Inserting a Gortat-type player would have a tremendous trickle down effect on the Cs rotation, IMO. A 5-man FC weave of Pierce, Green, KG, Sully and Gortat would be extremely tough in the playoffs.
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No it is Washington and then Sacramento.
I would put Charlotte, Detroit (recently), Toronto, Washington definitely, and maybe even Orlando (Howard situation and return).
Phoenix is two years removed from the WCF. They were very smart in not signing Amare to a contract (worst contract in NBA).
Phoenix = two years ago was when they let Steve Kerr leave and replaced him with Lon Babby (who then went out and overpaid his previous clients). They shouldn't be given credit for Kerr's successes (WCF). They were a well run franchise under Kerr and moving in a positive direction. Since then, they have imploded with numerous bad basketball decision.
Washington = excellent call. I'll put them #2 behind Phoenix instead of Sacramento and slide the Kings back down to 3rd. Very badly run front office. Don't like Ernie Grunfeld. Builds very badly balanced teams. I don't blame him for the Okafor and Ariza acquisitions though. That was clearly their owner Ted Leonsis. He was sick of losing seasons and forced his GM to fast-track the team's development. A lot like Michael Heisley did with Jerry West when he told West to make the playoff caliber team instead of a title contender. He just didn't understand how to build a team in the NBA at that time. Neither does Leonsis.
Toronto = Bryan Colangelo has been a train wreck there. He took over the team in such a strong position. An All-Star caliber big in Chris Bosh. A #1 draft pick. A load of cap space. Another All-Rookie forward in Villanueva who was reasonably well-regarded at the time. A good young guard in Calderon. And he has completely screwed the team up time and time again looking for short term solutions (band aids) to real problems. They need to fire Colangelo and start afresh with a new GM.
Charlotte = I like what they are doing. Blowing up the team and rebuilding from scratch was a brave decision and the first sign of a new dawn there. I think they are on the right track. Good job.
Orlando = first year of new GM. Too early to say. They got very little in return for Dwight but they are probably better off building with scratch than trying to build from a 30-40 win level team. So, it was an ugly moment (to lose Dwight for so little in return) but not one that will hurt them long term.
Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
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I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).
Based on the "all roads go through Miami" theory, I think Terry is the best asset on that list. I can see him winning us a couple of playoff games almost all by himself.
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
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I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).
Based on the "all roads go through Miami" theory, I think Terry is the best asset on that list. I can see him winning us a couple of playoff games almost all by himself.
Yeah, I agree.
I don't think Gortat will be all that valuable against Miami. I think he'll be more valuable against non-Miami teams. Teams with bigger lineups. I think his main value will be as a backup center. Less optimistic about a KG-Gortat duo against Miami. I think they can handle that well.
I think Jason Terry would make the largest contribution out of those four players in a series against Miami. He did a really good job against them in the Finals two years ago.
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
1 NBA Title
2 Finals Appearances
6 Conference Finals
7 Fifty win seasons
How many GMs have accomplishments like that on their resume?
Danny Ainge. RC Buford. Mitch Kupchak. Pat Riley. Donnie Nelson. Five guys in the entire NBA. That's it. Joe Dumars has been at worst the 6th most successful GM in the NBA over the last 10-15 years.
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
1 NBA Title
2 Finals Appearances
6 Conference Finals
7 Fifty win seasons
How many GMs have accomplishments like that on their resume?
Danny Ainge. RC Buford. Mitch Kupchak. Pat Riley. Donnie Nelson. Five guys in the entire NBA. That's it. Joe Dumars has been at worst the 6th most successful GM in the NBA over the last 10-15 years.
while not discounting your point, the GM business is very much a "what have you done for us lately" situation. Dumars hasn't done much right for years
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
1 NBA Title
2 Finals Appearances
6 Conference Finals
7 Fifty win seasons
How many GMs have accomplishments like that on their resume?
Danny Ainge. RC Buford. Mitch Kupchak. Pat Riley. Donnie Nelson. Five guys in the entire NBA. That's it. Joe Dumars has been at worst the 6th most successful GM in the NBA over the last 10-15 years.
I do see your point Who. There are few posters on this board whose analysis and opinion I respect as much as yours, but I respectfully disagree here. The Detroit Pistons have been one of the worst run franchises the past five years in the NBA in my opinion.
TP
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The Kings, followed by the Bobcats, then the Magic.
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The Kings, followed by the Bobcats, then the Magic.
The Magic are actually playing near 500 ball.
The Bobcats' have been losing every game since their winning streak so I'll agree with that.
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I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).
Based on the "all roads go through Miami" theory, I think Terry is the best asset on that list. I can see him winning us a couple of playoff games almost all by himself.
Yeah, I agree.
I don't think Gortat will be all that valuable against Miami. I think he'll be more valuable against non-Miami teams. Teams with bigger lineups. I think his main value will be as a backup center. Less optimistic about a KG-Gortat duo against Miami. I think they can handle that well.
I think Jason Terry would make the largest contribution out of those four players in a series against Miami. He did a really good job against them in the Finals two years ago.
Lee is interchangeable financially and likely more attractive to a team like PHX anyway. I get concerned about size in the Cs backcourt, but see the reasoning behind keeping Terry over Lee.
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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.
He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff.
I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
What does he do well? He shoots a lot of contested long two's. He is still doing that in Phoenix. Power forward, small forward- he takes the exact same shots.
Score the ball.
Beasley is a really good scorer. He can put the ball in the hoop in a variety of a different ways. He has a post game as a power three. A face up game where he can take his opponent off the dribble. Is a very good finisher around the basket with both hands. Has a midrange shot. Has a long two point shot. Has a three point shot. Spread the floor. He can play pick and roll, pick and pop. Excellent scorer in transition for a big forward. Can make free throws but doesn't earn many trips to the FT line.
He is an efficient scorer in many of those areas but his shot distribution between those areas is poor (like you say, too many contested long twos). Even a small improvement would make a large difference to his overall scoring efficiency.
Beasley is a 4/3 who should primarily play the power forward position because he can better defend and rebound that position. His perimeter defense against small forwards is horrific and negates any positive contributions he makes offensively. His defense at the four is below average but passable and could become average with some work.
The other area for him is to become a bit better as a passer. I don't think he'll ever become a good passer but he needs to be less of a black hole than he currently is.
I think those improvements in each are achievable and realistic for Beasley.
Is 2.5 assists really that bad for a SF? He's no Paul Pierce but definitely not below average, and arguably above average among forwards (4th in AST% for SFs).
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The Kings, followed by the Bobcats, then the Magic.
The Magic are actually playing near 500 ball.
The Bobcats' have been losing every game since their winning streak so I'll agree with that.
Who are the three best players on the magic?
They traded the second or third most valuable player in basketball, and what did they get back? What long term prospect did they get back? What high value draft pick?
The Thunder traded a guy who was also due a contract extension. What did they get back?
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The Kings, followed by the Bobcats, then the Magic.
The Magic are actually playing near 500 ball.
The Bobcats' have been losing every game since their winning streak so I'll agree with that.
Who are the three best players on the magic?
They traded the second or third most valuable player in basketball, and what did they get back? What long term prospect did they get back? What high value draft pick?
The Thunder traded a guy who was also due a contract extension. What did they get back?
Right - worst run.
The team is playing inspired right now though.
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The Kings, followed by the Bobcats, then the Magic.
The Magic are actually playing near 500 ball.
The Bobcats' have been losing every game since their winning streak so I'll agree with that.
Who are the three best players on the magic?
They traded the second or third most valuable player in basketball, and what did they get back? What long term prospect did they get back? What high value draft pick?
The Thunder traded a guy who was also due a contract extension. What did they get back?
Right - worst run.
The team is playing inspired right now though.
They've got a bunch or rotation caliber players. Nelson, Affalo, Davis, and Vucevic are all guys who could be on contenders rotations, Affalo as a starter.
But they're playing above their heads right now. This too shall pass.
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
Yeah, he's a far cry from the worst in the league. But he's also a malcontent, still mostly a defensive liability, and not a guy you want starting yet.
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
He let Okur leave so he'd have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace, then got outbid for Wallace by Chicago. That was pretty bad as well.
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I think the Kings and the Bobcats have something to say about it.
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Dumars to me has had two major missteps:
1) Darko
2) resigning Hamilton and inexplicably Prince
Aside from that (letting Okur go, investing too much in Stuckey), his missteps have been tiny. Dumars has them back on the right path. Monroe is a blue chip prospect. Drummond was the type of risky move you need. Jerebko, Maxiell, Bynum are the types of guys smart GMs take on. Dumars already has a more promising young team with less than rebuild projects like Charlotte have tried to produce with better draft picks. I'd rather have Detroits roster than Washington or Sacramento's.
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
Take a look here:
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM
The Suns are 19.5 points worse with him on the floor vs. off. I checked every other team, and among players who've played more than 30% of their team's minutes, there is no one worse in terms of net plus/minus. Not a single player.
If you dig into the numbers it looks even worse, mostly because Beasley makes his team worse offensively and flat out awful defensively.
On court Off court
Points scored/48 103 107
Points allowed/48 118 100
FG% alllowed 55% 48%
Offensive rebounding 28% 33%
Defensive rebounding 67% 73%
This surprised me. There is actually a case here that he is one of the worst players in the league, at least compared to other players with substantive court time.
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
Take a look here:
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM
The Suns are 19.5 points worse with him on the floor vs. off. I checked every other team, and among players who've played more than 30% of their team's minutes, there is no one worse in terms of net plus/minus. Not a single player.
If you dig into the numbers it looks even worse, mostly because Beasley makes his team worse offensively and flat out awful defensively.
On court Off court
Points scored/48 103 107
Points allowed/48 118 100
FG% alllowed 55% 48%
Offensive rebounding 28% 33%
Defensive rebounding 67% 73%
This surprised me. There is actually a case here that he is one of the worst players in the league, at least compared to other players with substantive court time.
That is impressive. I've been waiting for a while for someone, anyone to compile 82games's on/off court ratings into a sortable database.
But even then, I'd say a bit of it has to do with circumstance. Phoenix's starters were going to take a pounding. Beasley needed a tailored unit to succeed before. Now, on a rebuilding team (again), he's got even less of a chance.
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Dumars to me has had two major missteps:
1) Darko
This is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT reason Detroit fell off.
Not getting Wade, Melo, or Bosh was an epic fail.
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Dumars to me has had two major missteps:
1) Darko
This is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT reason Detroit fell off.
Not getting Wade, Melo, or Bosh was an epic fail.
True that. But Joey D won a chip. You get a big get out of jail free card for that.
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
Take a look here:
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM
The Suns are 19.5 points worse with him on the floor vs. off. I checked every other team, and among players who've played more than 30% of their team's minutes, there is no one worse in terms of net plus/minus. Not a single player.
If you dig into the numbers it looks even worse, mostly because Beasley makes his team worse offensively and flat out awful defensively.
On court Off court
Points scored/48 103 107
Points allowed/48 118 100
FG% alllowed 55% 48%
Offensive rebounding 28% 33%
Defensive rebounding 67% 73%
This surprised me. There is actually a case here that he is one of the worst players in the league, at least compared to other players with substantive court time.
That is impressive. I've been waiting for a while for someone, anyone to compile 82games's on/off court ratings into a sortable database.
But even then, I'd say a bit of it has to do with circumstance. Phoenix's starters were going to take a pounding. Beasley needed a tailored unit to succeed before. Now, on a rebuilding team (again), he's got even less of a chance.
Every team he has been on has been far worse when Beasley is actually in the game. That's why I say he is the worst. I realize he has skills, but he doesn't use them. He doesn't guard anyone and takes bad shot after bad shot. Someone like Jason Collins or Scalabrine doesn't hurt their teams nearly as much as Beasley when they are on the court.
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The bottom's really fallen out for Beasley this season. He's always been sort of similar to Carmelo on offense in that he took a lot of two-point shots without making a high percentage of them but he lacked Carmelo's ability to get to the line. This season he's still not getting to the line but he's also shooting a miserable percentage from the field. His efficiency is horrible.
On the positive side, he's passing a lot more than before. I always considered him a black hole who didn't have passing vision but I was wrong. He's thrown some very nice passes and also unselfishly turned down wide open shots to pass to teammates who were even more wide open.
The biggest difference to me between the Beasley who looked amazing in college and the one who has disappointed in the NBA comes down to free throws. Some players just don't have the skillset to get into positions where they can draw fouls. Beasley does. He is very good at taking people off the dribble but he shoots to many pull up jumpers and when doesn't, he tries too hard to avoid contact at the rim. I think the same mindset limited Glenn Robinson. Taking all the hits necessarily to get to the line can't be easy on the body but if you don't want to the take the punishment, you're not giving all of yourself to the game.
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
Take a look here:
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM
The Suns are 19.5 points worse with him on the floor vs. off. I checked every other team, and among players who've played more than 30% of their team's minutes, there is no one worse in terms of net plus/minus. Not a single player.
If you dig into the numbers it looks even worse, mostly because Beasley makes his team worse offensively and flat out awful defensively.
On court Off court
Points scored/48 103 107
Points allowed/48 118 100
FG% alllowed 55% 48%
Offensive rebounding 28% 33%
Defensive rebounding 67% 73%
This surprised me. There is actually a case here that he is one of the worst players in the league, at least compared to other players with substantive court time.
I agree, Beasley has been one of the most hurtful players in the league over the past couple of years (Minnesota, Phoenix).
He has been a net negative who has done substantial harm to his own team. The only other player that I can think off who has done similar damage to his own club over that time period is Andrea Bargnani.
A disgracefully poor defender at SF and a marginal offensive player.
That is not to say Beasley isn't a talented player. He is. He just needs some work. And to get the hell away from that starting SF position because he cannot defend that position if his life depended on it.
I don't think Beasley will ever be a high level star but I do think he can be one of those low level star types. A borderline star. Someone who can put up a lot of points on the board with reasonable efficiency and can be a passable defender/rebounder at the PF position.
But there's no question Beasley has been one of the most damaging players to his own team over the last couple of years (Minnesota, Phoenix). Nobody, except maybe Bargnani, has hurt their team more over that period.
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Dumars to me has had two major missteps:
1) Darko
2) resigning Hamilton and inexplicably Prince
Aside from that (letting Okur go, investing too much in Stuckey), his missteps have been tiny. Dumars has them back on the right path. Monroe is a blue chip prospect. Drummond was the type of risky move you need. Jerebko, Maxiell, Bynum are the types of guys smart GMs take on. Dumars already has a more promising young team with less than rebuild projects like Charlotte have tried to produce with better draft picks. I'd rather have Detroits roster than Washington or Sacramento's.
I don't consider Monroe a blue chip prospect. He'll be a good player but I think of him more as a third option type talent on a quality team. I feel like he is more of a stat-padder at this juncture in his career. I need to see more defensive quality and more range offensively.
I like the Drummond and Knight draft picks. Both were clearly projects but are both high risk / reward guys. High ceilings. I'd say both have more raw (unharnessed) talent than Monroe. Although I'm also pretty doubtful about Knight's chances of fulfilling his talent.
I think Sacramento (Cousins, Tyreke) and Washington (Wall) are in better situations roster wise because they have legitimate top tier talent in those players. I don't put Monroe at that level and Drummond/Knight are not enough of a sure-thing to be put up there. Still too raw.
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2) resigning Hamilton and inexplicably Prince
Aside from that (letting Okur go, investing too much in Stuckey), his missteps have been tiny. Dumars has them back on the right path. Monroe is a blue chip prospect. Drummond was the type of risky move you need. Jerebko, Maxiell, Bynum are the types of guys smart GMs take on.
The idea behind signing Rip Hamilton (and keeping Tayshaun and Sheed) was to rebuild around the Pistons remaining Champions and keeping their team's winning identity and defensive ethos rather than rebuilding from scratch.
It didn't work out but I don't have any real problem with the idea behind that. He had the cap flexibility required to make that type of plan work. Unfortunately, Dumars blew the money (B.Gordon, C.Villanueva) and the plan fell apart. Good idea, bad execution.
Misspending Detroit's cap flexibility on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva was a very bad mistake but Joe Dumars will learn from that (hopefully).
One of the main differences between a good GM and a bad GM is that a good GM can admit his mistakes and will move to correct them. Everybody makes mistakes. All GMs make mistakes. It's a given.
The difference is that when a bad GM (Bryan Colangelo) makes mistakes, he will will refuse to admit his error and will instead just keep compounding those errors (Bargnani over and over and over ... and over and over).
Joe Dumars has always been man enough to admit his mistakes (as did Steve Kerr in Phoenix) and moved to correct them. That is why, in addition to his previous success, I would still have a lot of faith in Joe Dumars turning things around for Detroit over time.
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
He let Okur leave so he'd have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace, then got outbid for Wallace by Chicago. That was pretty bad as well.
Um, Okur left long before Ben Wallace left for Chicago. He let Okur leave so he could re-sign Rasheed Wallace, which is exactly what he did.
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Unfortunately for Detroit, Bill Davidson died early in 2009 which was right after the Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva signings. Joe Dumars lost a great owner that day. One of the best owners in the NBA. And then Detroit had that messy ownership transition where Joe Dumars' hands were tied for two years. That really held Detroit back.
Joe Dumars wasn't allowed to make trades during that time (well he was extremely limited in what he was allowed take back to the point he couldn't make any deals). He was also limited in free agency. Dumars wasn't allowed to use the MLE or make sign and trades. For two years, his hands were tied. That was right after giving Ben Gordon and Charlie V those contracts.
Late last season, the Pistons finally completed the sale of the team and have a new owner in Tom Gores. It looks like Joe Dumars finally has the latitude to make decisions again as evidenced by his first trade in three years (yes, he didn't make a trade for three whole years due to that ownership situation) in moving out Ben Gordon. Moving on from that failed attempt and entering a new era. Building around youth this time.
Early signs on Tom Gores are promising. He is saying the right things. He looks like a progressive owner. We'll have to wait and see but things look much improved there.
New owner in Tom Gores + one of the most successful GMs in the business in Joe Dumars ... does not equal a franchise in trouble. This is a team with sound leadership at the head of it's organization.
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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.
Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.
Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.
The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.
Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.
Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.
He let Okur leave so he'd have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace, then got outbid for Wallace by Chicago. That was pretty bad as well.
Um, Okur left long before Ben Wallace left for Chicago. He let Okur leave so he could re-sign Rasheed Wallace, which is exactly what he did.
It was Darko Milicic who Joe D traded to make way for Ben Wallace's contract extension.
In exchange for Darko, Dumars got back the draft pick used to acquire Rodney Stuckey.
I would've loved to have seen Darko stay there in Detroit. His shot-blocking and interior defense would've been very valuable in a post Ben Wallace world. Something Detroit lacked in those subsequent seasons. And playing alongside guys like Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups on a veteran team would've been perfect for Darko at that time in his career. The different path his career might have taken had that happened. Oh well. It was not to be.
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Sad because I really liked Beasley's potential in college.
The thing is, I was hoping he would become Dennis Rodman-esque, while he has tried to play as if he is Carmello Anthony. It's too bad.
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Dumars to me has had two major missteps:
1) Darko
2) resigning Hamilton and inexplicably Prince
Aside from that (letting Okur go, investing too much in Stuckey), his missteps have been tiny. Dumars has them back on the right path. Monroe is a blue chip prospect. Drummond was the type of risky move you need. Jerebko, Maxiell, Bynum are the types of guys smart GMs take on. Dumars already has a more promising young team with less than rebuild projects like Charlotte have tried to produce with better draft picks. I'd rather have Detroits roster than Washington or Sacramento's.
I don't consider Monroe a blue chip prospect. He'll be a good player but I think of him more as a third option type talent on a quality team. I feel like he is more of a stat-padder at this juncture in his career. I need to see more defensive quality and more range offensively.
I like the Drummond and Knight draft picks. Both were clearly projects but are both high risk / reward guys. High ceilings. I'd say both have more raw (unharnessed) talent than Monroe. Although I'm also pretty doubtful about Knight's chances of fulfilling his talent.
I think Sacramento (Cousins, Tyreke) and Washington (Wall) are in better situations roster wise because they have legitimate top tier talent in those players. I don't put Monroe at that level and Drummond/Knight are not enough of a sure-thing to be put up there. Still too raw.
I like Detroit's ability to return to true competitiveness faster than either Washington or Sactown IF -- and that's a big if -- Joe D can stop egregiously overpaying FAs (read: Charlie V, Ben Gordon, Stuckey, and the truly bizarre Tay Prince contract).
Ty Evans has been exposed. Not a 1, and can't shoot. That really hurts SAC's immediate future. The Bullets have some talent, but their insistence on trying to balance youth with vets continues to kill them. Stop trading for marginal players on bad contracts and just let the ones you have expire.
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Worst run? Not sure. But this team has taken a step back for like 7 consecutive years. That's pretty hard to do.
Beasley is one of the worst players in the league and plenty of people on celticsblog have wanted him year after year. Better Phoenix than the Celtics. He not only sucks, but he is a cancer.
u reachin badly wit da bolded Beasley can score from anywhere on da court nd when he's hot its problems. da only thing wit him is mentally nd his weed smokin i wouldnt call him anywhere near da worst player in da league
Take a look here:
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM
The Suns are 19.5 points worse with him on the floor vs. off. I checked every other team, and among players who've played more than 30% of their team's minutes, there is no one worse in terms of net plus/minus. Not a single player.
If you dig into the numbers it looks even worse, mostly because Beasley makes his team worse offensively and flat out awful defensively.
On court Off court
Points scored/48 103 107
Points allowed/48 118 100
FG% alllowed 55% 48%
Offensive rebounding 28% 33%
Defensive rebounding 67% 73%
This surprised me. There is actually a case here that he is one of the worst players in the league, at least compared to other players with substantive court time.
I agree, Beasley has been one of the most hurtful players in the league over the past couple of years (Minnesota, Phoenix).
He has been a net negative who has done substantial harm to his own team. The only other player that I can think off who has done similar damage to his own club over that time period is Andrea Bargnani.
A disgracefully poor defender at SF and a marginal offensive player.
That is not to say Beasley isn't a talented player. He is. He just needs some work. And to get the hell away from that starting SF position because he cannot defend that position if his life depended on it.
I don't think Beasley will ever be a high level star but I do think he can be one of those low level star types. A borderline star. Someone who can put up a lot of points on the board with reasonable efficiency and can be a passable defender/rebounder at the PF position.
But there's no question Beasley has been one of the most damaging players to his own team over the last couple of years (Minnesota, Phoenix). Nobody, except maybe Bargnani, has hurt their team more over that period.
I feel like folks talked the same way about Jamal Crawford for a long while. Difference is Crawford has a reputation for being reasonably bright and generally amiable. Beasley strikes me as a moron.
Again, basically, who cares. Would you rather have Gortat (and the potential of Beasley off the end of your bench) than Bass and Lee or Bass and Terry?
Phoenix is going to need to get both Gortat and Beasley out of their locker room, which means they're going to get lowball offers, at least to begin with. They also have no 2 true guards, so Lee could be a nice piece for them.
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I feel like folks talked the same way about Jamal Crawford for a long while.
He does? My first reaction when I hear Jamaal Crawford is "Ricky Davis v.2" (a.k.a a ball hog that never met a shot he didn't like).
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I feel like folks talked the same way about Jamal Crawford for a long while.
He does? My first reaction when I hear Jamaal Crawford is "Ricky Davis v.2" (a.k.a a ball hog that never met a shot he didn't like).
That's a fair description of Crawford -- doesn't make him dim. That's also a fair description of Beasley, I'd say. He just strikes me as lost.
Ricky is a guy who did improve his team play in green, even if marginally. If Beasley could take the limited steps forward Ricky did, he'd be a far more palatable player.
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I feel like folks talked the same way about Jamal Crawford for a long while.
He does? My first reaction when I hear Jamaal Crawford is "Ricky Davis v.2" (a.k.a a ball hog that never met a shot he didn't like).
That's a fair description of Crawford -- doesn't make him dim. That's also a fair description of Beasley, I'd say. He just strikes me as lost.
Ricky is a guy who did improve his team play in green, even if marginally. If Beasley could take the limited steps forward Ricky did, he'd be a far more palatable player.
I thought Davis was great when his head was screwed right. Unfortunately it didn't last long. That's a pity, because he could have been a great sixth man for us for many years.
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I feel like folks talked the same way about Jamal Crawford for a long while.
He does? My first reaction when I hear Jamaal Crawford is "Ricky Davis v.2" (a.k.a a ball hog that never met a shot he didn't like).
That's a fair description of Crawford -- doesn't make him dim. That's also a fair description of Beasley, I'd say. He just strikes me as lost.
Ricky is a guy who did improve his team play in green, even if marginally. If Beasley could take the limited steps forward Ricky did, he'd be a far more palatable player.
I thought Davis was great when his head was screwed right. Unfortunately it didn't last long. That's a pity, because he could have been a great sixth man for us for many years.
Yep -- Ricky learned that he could defend when he put the effort in. Beasley with his athleticism and size should be a capable defender at the 4. Dare I say Minny and Phoenix is not the right place to learn to do so.
One other note about recent PHX folly: the way Kendell Marhsall is playing in the d-league, he may be out of the NBA by season's end. He's terrible.