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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: 2short on December 10, 2012, 10:09:08 AM

Title: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: 2short on December 10, 2012, 10:09:08 AM
Any notice how things are starting to click together.  Sure its been slow but our defensive rotations are not the easiest to learn and we've started the season with many new players, injured sg and 2 key reserves coming off HEART surgery.

After reading through the many fire doc, fire danny, trade just about everyone on the  roster ( burn green at the stake).  I'd like everyone to breathe deeply and notice the difference between last game and the start of season.  The defensive rotations still are not 100% but they are getting there.

 Avery Bradley isn't the sole key to us winning but he is quite important, he is closer to returning.  Bradley returns we are deep in the guards spots, JET can get back to his customary instant offense off bench job and Lee becomes 4th guard.  Jeff Green is playing limited minutes which seems to have something to do with conditioning/rehab.  Green's offensive game is one the best on team.  Wilcox another heart patient is slowly showing to be a very capable backup to kg.  Sully has gone from start of season rookie who has no clue on defense to a legit backup pf in the league.  This is great as he only has a handful of games under his belt and the improvement is only going to get better.  I'm not sure if its Sully's play but Bass seems to have raised his work level on rebounding and defense.  When Brandon's shot falls it is deadly, he and rondo have the pick and pop down pat.  Many times last year and early this year if his shot wasn't falling he wasn't helping us much.  His rebounding and defensive efforts are much improved.  Of course we expect greatness from rondo (trade him?) Pierce (trade him?) and Garnett.  It seems like the rest of the group is coming around, hopefully enough that the three guys previous can take some games off here and there.

Raise our half filled glasses (filled with green kool aid).  Let Doc do what he does and work the entire team.  Its the playoffs that matter, our defense is getting noticeably better and that is the key, that and health.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: wdleehi on December 10, 2012, 10:11:11 AM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them. 
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: ssspence on December 10, 2012, 10:38:13 AM
Agreed. I think the core of the team will remain the same, and Bradley and / or Sullinger are unlikely to be moved.

I do think the Cs will vet carefully what they can get for Bass, Lee or Terry (in that order) plus a pick or Melo at the deadline for a big guy or a ball handler.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 10, 2012, 11:10:09 AM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

Couldnt agree with you more. We need to take some of our assets and turn them into a big man to expose the Heats weakness. This team in no way can out small ball the Heat.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: Brendan on December 10, 2012, 11:15:49 AM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

Couldnt agree with you more. We need to take some of our assets and turn them into a big man to expose the Heats weakness. This team in no way can out small ball the Heat.
+1

I think winning in the post season depends on having a C who can play behind KG for 20 MPG, plus an overall big man rotation that maintains high level of performance when KG is out.

One of the reasons I preferred keeping Ray Allen and using the MLE on a Center was just this. But Ray wouldn't do what I wanted him to do.  >:(
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: 2short on December 10, 2012, 12:17:34 PM
I am not against a trade by the way, I just way to many people have been wanting a trade, putting outlandish ideas out there, blowing up the team etc.  Wilcox when playing at 100% is a good backup.  Would I rather Gortat, sure, the way he and the suns are going his trade value is going down every week.   We do still have an open (darko) roster spot, Collins is a solid 4th center, Melo will be no help this year.  I'd keep options open my topic was more stop and smell the roses.  We are improving, don't expect to see the real big 3 until playoffs.  I'd rather limit all their minutes, maybe not have the best record but go into playoffs healthy and running on all cylinders.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: vinnie on December 10, 2012, 12:42:19 PM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

I endorse this post 100 percent.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: mgent on December 10, 2012, 12:48:34 PM
We have Rondo (36), Terry (28), Bradley (25), Lee (20), Barbosa (20), Pierce (34), Green (25) to fill only 3 positions (144).

I didn't do the math but to make that work you'd have to cut more than one guy to less than half of the minutes they deserve, which is really more than what I put in parentheses for most of those guys.  A trade is likely inevitable.  Pairing 1 or even 2 of those guys with Bass or Sully for an upgrade to the bigs would make it much easier for our guys to get in a rhythm on the court.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 10, 2012, 12:53:35 PM
The C"s are one QUALITY BIG away from where they need to be.   A quality Big ... like Verejao ...would allow us to lock horns on a equal basis with the teams loaded with BIG men and get a step up on the smaller Heat.

Git er dun Danny !! ;D

Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: Vermont Green on December 10, 2012, 01:17:58 PM
The C"s are one QUALITY BIG away from where they need to be.   A quality Big ... like Verejao ...would allow us to lock horns on a equal basis with the teams loaded with BIG men and get a step up on the smaller Heat.

Git er dun Danny !! ;D
I don't think anyone would disagree that getting Varejao would be a big boost to the Celtics but he a valuable asset and it is going to take something to get him.

The deal would probaly need to be something like

Green, Wilcox, Melo
for
Varejao, Miles

Cle gets a SF (which they need) along with someone who can fill some C minutes (Wilcox), which they will need if the trade Varejao, and an interesting future prospect.

The Cs get their center and a servicable back up SF but have to give up on Green.  I am not sure if Cle could do better than this or not.  I think Green still has some value so maybe.

I would do this but I don't think Danny would.  I think he believes Green is part of the future core.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: kozlodoev on December 10, 2012, 01:31:24 PM
I do think the Cs will vet carefully what they can get for Bass, Lee or Terry (in that order) plus a pick or Melo at the deadline for a big guy or a ball handler.
Um, actually Bass is pretty much untradeable. You need another rotation-caliber big guy to go _with_ Garnett, Bass, and Sullinger, because Wilcox is pretty awful right now.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: kozlodoev on December 10, 2012, 01:35:55 PM
We have Rondo (36), Terry (28), Bradley (25), Lee (20), Barbosa (20), Pierce (34), Green (25) to fill only 3 positions (144).

I didn't do the math but to make that work you'd have to cut more than one guy to less than half of the minutes they deserve, which is really more than what I put in parentheses for most of those guys.  A trade is likely inevitable.  Pairing 1 or even 2 of those guys with Bass or Sully for an upgrade to the bigs would make it much easier for our guys to get in a rhythm on the court.
Barbosa has already fallen out of the rotation, and Bradley isn't even healthy yet.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on December 10, 2012, 02:00:06 PM
We have Rondo (36), Terry (28), Bradley (25), Lee (20), Barbosa (20), Pierce (34), Green (25) to fill only 3 positions (144).

I didn't do the math but to make that work you'd have to cut more than one guy to less than half of the minutes they deserve, which is really more than what I put in parentheses for most of those guys.  A trade is likely inevitable.  Pairing 1 or even 2 of those guys with Bass or Sully for an upgrade to the bigs would make it much easier for our guys to get in a rhythm on the court.
Barbosa has already fallen out of the rotation, and Bradley isn't even healthy yet.

Yeah, I don't see the insistence from many about the playing time for Barbosa. Part of it he's been sick lately, but he'll have a very limited role going forward regardless.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 10, 2012, 02:29:34 PM
We have Rondo (36), Terry (28), Bradley (25), Lee (20), Barbosa (20), Pierce (34), Green (25) to fill only 3 positions (144).

I didn't do the math but to make that work you'd have to cut more than one guy to less than half of the minutes they deserve, which is really more than what I put in parentheses for most of those guys.  A trade is likely inevitable.  Pairing 1 or even 2 of those guys with Bass or Sully for an upgrade to the bigs would make it much easier for our guys to get in a rhythm on the court.
Barbosa has already fallen out of the rotation, and Bradley isn't even healthy yet.

Yeah, I don't see the insistence from many about the playing time for Barbosa. Part of it he's been sick lately, but he'll have a very limited role going forward regardless.

Barbosa is good insurance for the bench. If he plays and helps out a bit great but at this point I dont see a need for him to be given minutes. Terry and Lee have been doing a fine job of bringing the ball up the floor with and uptempo offense.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: mctyson on December 10, 2012, 05:03:38 PM
When Avery Bradley was healthy and our starting SG last season, we had a 70% winning percentage, were the best team in the league (including Miami), and were playing historically good defense.

When he comes back, I expect similar results.  Until then, just stay around .500 and don't get hurt.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: The Rondo Show on December 10, 2012, 05:58:38 PM
Just don't trade Avery or Sullinger
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: kozlodoev on December 10, 2012, 06:07:05 PM
Just don't trade Avery or Sullinger
I'll trade them in a heartbeat if the right deal comes around; they are great trade bait with "tremendous upside potential" a-la Al Jefferson.

Sadly, the right deal is a well-rounded big man who can start for us for ~10 seasons. Fat chance that's going to happen.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: Kane3387 on December 10, 2012, 08:34:51 PM
Sullinger = Love 2.0

Do not trade him please.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 10, 2012, 10:08:57 PM
When Avery Bradley was healthy and our starting SG last season, we had a 70% winning percentage, were the best team in the league (including Miami), and were playing historically good defense.

When he comes back, I expect similar results.  Until then, just stay around .500 and don't get hurt.

AB is right behind KG as my favorite Celtic.   I'm super excited about his return... old school basketball.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: jdz101 on December 10, 2012, 11:01:25 PM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

I endorse this post 100 percent.

The thing is; To expose the heat's weakness inside you need a good, mobile energy big that does lots of rebounding on both ends. The only guy that fits that mold and is apparently open to offers is varejao and that is just about it.

There is no point in trading young assets for a middle of the road big like gortat just to have him exposed by the heat's smallball anyway. May aswell keep the young-uns.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: wdleehi on December 10, 2012, 11:24:06 PM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

I endorse this post 100 percent.

The thing is; To expose the heat's weakness inside you need a good, mobile energy big that does lots of rebounding on both ends. The only guy that fits that mold and is apparently open to offers is varejao and that is just about it.

There is no point in trading young assets for a middle of the road big like gortat just to have him exposed by the heat's smallball anyway. May aswell keep the young-uns.


Completely disagree.  Gortat would also make a difference improving the Celtics chance. 
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: jdz101 on December 11, 2012, 06:01:26 AM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

I endorse this post 100 percent.

The thing is; To expose the heat's weakness inside you need a good, mobile energy big that does lots of rebounding on both ends. The only guy that fits that mold and is apparently open to offers is varejao and that is just about it.

There is no point in trading young assets for a middle of the road big like gortat just to have him exposed by the heat's smallball anyway. May aswell keep the young-uns.


Completely disagree.  Gortat would also make a difference improving the Celtics chance.

This isn't about improving the Celtics chance. This is about giving the Celtics a REALLY good shot. Sure you can trade away the rookies for Gortat and the team gets better. Good enough to beat the heat in a 7 game series though?

Sullinger could very well be an elite rebounder in this league. Avery is already an elite defender. Its got to be worth the gamble.

This isn't even bringing to light that Gortat is completely unproven in playoffs basketball.

Varejao on the other hand is one of those super high energy guys that have proven to give the heat fits over the past couple of seasons. A perfect candidate to give the Celtics a real shot at it.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: wdleehi on December 11, 2012, 08:59:11 AM
I am glad they are playing better, but I still want them to make a move when they can to improve the big man rotation on this team. 



The reason is still the same, Celtics are not getting past a healthy Heats team if they have to play small against them.

I endorse this post 100 percent.

The thing is; To expose the heat's weakness inside you need a good, mobile energy big that does lots of rebounding on both ends. The only guy that fits that mold and is apparently open to offers is varejao and that is just about it.

There is no point in trading young assets for a middle of the road big like gortat just to have him exposed by the heat's smallball anyway. May aswell keep the young-uns.


Completely disagree.  Gortat would also make a difference improving the Celtics chance.

This isn't about improving the Celtics chance. This is about giving the Celtics a REALLY good shot. Sure you can trade away the rookies for Gortat and the team gets better. Good enough to beat the heat in a 7 game series though?

Sullinger could very well be an elite rebounder in this league. Avery is already an elite defender. Its got to be worth the gamble.

This isn't even bringing to light that Gortat is completely unproven in playoffs basketball.

Varejao on the other hand is one of those super high energy guys that have proven to give the heat fits over the past couple of seasons. A perfect candidate to give the Celtics a real shot at it.


This is about maximizing the Celtics chance the best way the team can. 


While trade for Sideshow is probably the best move for the Celtics doesn't mean it is a move they will be able to close or it is the only move they think about doing.


Adding Gortat improves the big men by adding another starting level C.
Title: Re: A big step in the right direction for the trade everyone threads
Post by: nostar on December 11, 2012, 09:34:27 AM
I won't suggest specific trades here because it's not the place but I want to say that I am 100% in favor of moving Sullinger. I'm also in favor of moving Bass and Lee if we can get reasonable value for them.

There aren't very many teams historically that have won without a superstar and while I can make a pretty good argument for Rondo I certainly don't think he can carry a team by himself after PP/KG retire. That is why win-now makes sense. I like Bradley a lot although he's undersized. Aside from Rondo/Bradley I'm ready to move anyone to make this team better this year.

Next offseason we can make plays for Tyreke Evans/Josh Smith/Paul Millsap as FAs or even a bigger fish like Howard or Paul. We have all kinds of options next year. Who knows what will happen with Pierce's contract. If by selling the future we can land a player who helps us win this year I am 110% for it. I've seen Gasol/Smith/Millsap/Jefferson/Gortat/Varejao threads so far and I'm interested in all of them. The common thread is getting a big guy but really I'm not against getting a dominant wing player either. The important part is that we take our resources and win now.

If we can use Sully or Green or Lee or Bass to snare a talented big man then I say pack their bags. I'd even move Pierce or Terry if I thought it made our team better (I don't). Win now.