CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Spinmove00 on December 09, 2012, 01:06:51 PM
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Please Doc, let Jeff Green play! I will agree he started the season off lethargic and lost. But as of the last 5 games or so he has been playing great basketball consistently, and has earned a right to play 30 minutes a night. He deserves to play more than Bass and Lee.
Doc, it's time you stop being so stubborn. It's time to change the rotation and the quicker you realize it, the better! This team can and will be so much better if you just utilize the roster you have now properly.
This is my proposal for the new rotation
PG: Rondo-35mins/ Barbosa-13mins
SG: Terry-30mins/ Pierce-8mins/ Lee-10mins
SF: Pierce-22mins/ Green-26mins
PF: Sullinger-25mins/ Bass-19mins/ Green-4mins
C : KG-28mins/ Wilcox-20mins
It's time to start committing to going with a big lineup. Remember Doc, this rotation does not have to be etched in stone. It is just an average of where you want there minutes to be around. Example; if you are playing the Sixes, give Jeff Green some extended minutes at the 4 because of the matchup with Thaddeus Young. Also, if a player has a hot hand, keep him in and roll with it until he cools of or gets tired. If a player is having an off night, sit him. Thats what we have a deep roster for, use it!
Once Avery Bradley comes back and he gets to the level of late last season or better you have to get him at least 28-30mins a game as well. That is probably going to come at the expense of Barbosa and Lee. Also can cut some of Terry's mins too.
After evaluating the team being utilized properly and seeing what each player can really do, then Danny can pull the trigger on a trade to put is over the top and grab banner 18!
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I almost wonder if Green is playing so few minutes because his stamina isnt quite there yet...he's still being productive in his 23-25minutes...but im not sure why he i'snt getting minutes over guys like Bass/Lee
whether its illness or not, Barbosa seems to have fallen out of doc's rotation.
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Stamina issues would be the only reason I can accept him getting 23 mins a game. I have noticed Barbosa minutes have dropped. I think it's the illness and the defense of Lee that has kept him off the floor.
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Please Doc, let Jeff Green play! I will agree he started the season off lethargic and lost. But as of the last 5 games or so he has been playing great basketball consistently, and has earned a right to play 30 minutes a night. He deserves to play more than Bass and Lee.
Doc, it's time you stop being so stubborn. It's time to change the rotation and the quicker you realize it, the better! This team can and will be so much better if you just utilize the roster you have now properly.
This is my proposal for the new rotation
PG: Rondo-35mins/ Barbosa-13mins
SG: Terry-30mins/ Pierce-8mins/ Lee-10mins
SF: Pierce-22mins/ Green-26mins
PF: Sullinger-25mins/ Bass-19mins/ Green-4mins
C : KG-28mins/ Wilcox-20mins
It's time to start committing to going with a big lineup. Remember Doc, this rotation does not have to be etched in stone. It is just an average of where you want there minutes to be around. Example; if you are playing the Sixes, give Jeff Green some extended minutes at the 4 because of the matchup with Thaddeus Young. Also, if a player has a hot hand, keep him in and roll with it until he cools of or gets tired. If a player is having an off night, sit him. Thats what we have a deep roster for, use it!
Once Avery Bradley comes back and he gets to the level of late last season or better you have to get him at least 28-30mins a game as well. That is probably going to come at the expense of Barbosa and Lee. Also can cut some of Terry's mins too.
After evaluating the team being utilized properly and seeing what each player can really do, then Danny can pull the trigger on a trade to put is over the top and grab banner 18!
Why not start Green at the two and keep pierce at the 3 until Bradley comes back. Indian seemed to do pretty well starting two SF with Granger and George. I don't see who this wouldn't work for the Celtics.
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Please Doc, let Jeff Green play! I will agree he started the season off lethargic and lost. But as of the last 5 games or so he has been playing great basketball consistently, and has earned a right to play 30 minutes a night. He deserves to play more than Bass and Lee.
Doc, it's time you stop being so stubborn. It's time to change the rotation and the quicker you realize it, the better! This team can and will be so much better if you just utilize the roster you have now properly.
This is my proposal for the new rotation
PG: Rondo-35mins/ Barbosa-13mins
SG: Terry-30mins/ Pierce-8mins/ Lee-10mins
SF: Pierce-22mins/ Green-26mins
PF: Sullinger-25mins/ Bass-19mins/ Green-4mins
C : KG-28mins/ Wilcox-20mins
It's time to start committing to going with a big lineup. Remember Doc, this rotation does not have to be etched in stone. It is just an average of where you want there minutes to be around. Example; if you are playing the Sixes, give Jeff Green some extended minutes at the 4 because of the matchup with Thaddeus Young. Also, if a player has a hot hand, keep him in and roll with it until he cools of or gets tired. If a player is having an off night, sit him. Thats what we have a deep roster for, use it!
Once Avery Bradley comes back and he gets to the level of late last season or better you have to get him at least 28-30mins a game as well. That is probably going to come at the expense of Barbosa and Lee. Also can cut some of Terry's mins too.
After evaluating the team being utilized properly and seeing what each player can really do, then Danny can pull the trigger on a trade to put is over the top and grab banner 18!
Why not start Green at the two and keep pierce at the 3 until Bradley comes back. Indian seemed to do pretty well starting two SF with Granger and George. I don't see who this wouldn't work for the Celtics.
Love it.
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Please Doc, let Jeff Green play! I will agree he started the season off lethargic and lost. But as of the last 5 games or so he has been playing great basketball consistently, and has earned a right to play 30 minutes a night. He deserves to play more than Bass and Lee.
Doc, it's time you stop being so stubborn. It's time to change the rotation and the quicker you realize it, the better! This team can and will be so much better if you just utilize the roster you have now properly.
This is my proposal for the new rotation
PG: Rondo-35mins/ Barbosa-13mins
SG: Terry-30mins/ Pierce-8mins/ Lee-10mins
SF: Pierce-22mins/ Green-26mins
PF: Sullinger-25mins/ Bass-19mins/ Green-4mins
C : KG-28mins/ Wilcox-20mins
It's time to start committing to going with a big lineup. Remember Doc, this rotation does not have to be etched in stone. It is just an average of where you want there minutes to be around. Example; if you are playing the Sixes, give Jeff Green some extended minutes at the 4 because of the matchup with Thaddeus Young. Also, if a player has a hot hand, keep him in and roll with it until he cools of or gets tired. If a player is having an off night, sit him. Thats what we have a deep roster for, use it!
Once Avery Bradley comes back and he gets to the level of late last season or better you have to get him at least 28-30mins a game as well. That is probably going to come at the expense of Barbosa and Lee. Also can cut some of Terry's mins too.
After evaluating the team being utilized properly and seeing what each player can really do, then Danny can pull the trigger on a trade to put is over the top and grab banner 18!
Why not start Green at the two and keep pierce at the 3 until Bradley comes back. Indian seemed to do pretty well starting two SF with Granger and George. I don't see who this wouldn't work for the Celtics.
Love it.
Did this against Philly once I think?
Jason Richardson on Pierce, Turner on JG.
Did not abuse the mismatches. I was super excited because even with my untrained eyes I saw mismatches galore. But they were apparently "not selfish enough".
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Overall my thought is whether Jeff starts or not , his recent play /attitude /effort deserves him an increase in playing time.
I think Doc now owes it to Green now that Jeff has stepped up for the team to give him more floor time.... especially with KG and Sullinger on the court , they can pull the defense to honor the mid range ball and let Jeff ISO's go to work.
I still think the most potent lineup is KG-GREEN-SULLY-RONDO-JET/Pierce
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I think any plan that involves Pierce (or Green) playing the 2 on a regular basis is not a good idea. It may make sense as an in-game adjustment to specific personnel, but it is not something they should be planning on doing every game.
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How about on December 15th we just trade some package of Courtney Lee, Sully, Bradley, Melo and future 1sts for an impact big (Gortat, Big Al, Josh Smith, etc) .. and then just start Jeff Green at his natural SF and Pierce at SG.
Example:
PG - Rondo
SG - Pierce
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Big Al
... Bring Jason Terry and Barbosa off the bench to be the microwaves they are. Bass would be a very effective backup big.
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That bench is really weak but I would rather have a good starting five than a good bench. Can Bass play back up center?
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That bench is really weak but I would rather have a good starting five than a good bench. Can Bass play back up center?
Who is our backup center right now? Right now we don't even have a starting center... we have KG playing out of position at center.
If we had a starting lineup of actual starters, we could always use smallball as it's intended... sporadically off the bench. And in those instances if you don't want to play someone like Wilcox or Collins, you can just have Bass be the default "center" in that lineup.
We'd have some backup bigs in Wilcox and Bass... backup guards in Terry and Barbosa. I think the main concern would be backup SF if Pierce and Jeff Green were both starting. I wouldn't worry about that, though.
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To me, JGreen is the key. He is the piece we were missing last season vs Miami. Can't see the Cs winning the East without JGreen playing a big part.
He should play more minutes with the starters.
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I also love Sullinger's step up in minutes, this kid might be the best Celtics rookie we've seen in a long time. The kid seems to be really understanding his rotations, he's not grabbing rebounds he's attacking them, his shot is developing, and he's a very VERY intelligent passer. Where Brandon Bass hesitates to make the safe pass, Sully hits his teammates nice as they're coming off screens and keeps them in an attacking flow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZm_laBbEb4
(http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/158012796.jpg)
I love this kid.
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I also love Sullinger's step up in minutes, this kid might be the best Celtics rookie we've seen in a long time. The kid seems to be really understanding his rotations, he's not grabbing rebounds he's attacking them, his shot is developing, and he's a very VERY intelligent passer. Where Brandon Bass hesitates to make the safe pass, Sully hits his teammates nice as they're coming off screens and keeps them in an attacking flow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZm_laBbEb4
(http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/158012796.jpg)
I love this kid.
I agree he looked real Z-Bo like here he just knows where to be, carves space up, isn't a big leaper but somehow gets it over bigger guys. The rebounds where he's dang near the 3pt line yet still gets it over guys near the rim is just impressive.
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That bench is really weak but I would rather have a good starting five than a good bench. Can Bass play back up center?
Who is our backup center right now? Right now we don't even have a starting center... we have KG playing out of position at center.
This is Incorrect....if KG is "out of position at center" then the Spurs are playing Tim Duncan "out of position" as well
at this point in his career KG has the best mismatches offensively playing Center...he's not quick enough to play Power Forward full time and be effective
after how well he has played last yeaqr when he was switched to the 5 through this year, they are Not moving him back to PF
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Sully was a bit of a steal. He probably should have been a late lotto pick and we grabbed him at #21. Right now he's right up there as one of the 10 best rookies.
Still... if you get a chance to bring in a star-level big man for a late lotto pick... you do it.
I'll make it easier. Take off your homer goggles for a second. Would you rather have Meyers Leonard (picked 10 spots ahead of Sully, performing just as well and is over 7 feet tall) or would you rather have Big Al/Josh Smith/Pau ... You probably go with the established starting big at the expense of Meyers Leonard... in spite of the "impressive" 5 point 5 rebound averages. It's nice and all... but it's expendable when you're bringing in a guy who can put up 20 and 10 immediately.
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I wouldnt be opposed to moving sully for an allstar calibar Big
but most of the trade scenarios have us trading him for someone like Gortat.
who IMO isnt someone who is going to put you "over the top" and you are giving up More talent for someone who is marginally better.
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How about on December 15th we just trade some package of Courtney Lee, Sully, Bradley, Melo and future 1sts for an impact big (Gortat, Big Al, Josh Smith, etc) .. and then just start Jeff Green at his natural SF and Pierce at SG.
Example:
PG - Rondo
SG - Pierce
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Big Al
... Bring Jason Terry and Barbosa off the bench to be the microwaves they are. Bass would be a very effective backup big.
Bad trade for the Celtics. Give WAY too much. PP and KG can't handle a ton of minutes, PP would have a hard time against fast SG's.
Bradley's D is going to be great in the playoffs against the other back courts not allowing them to get into there offense till later in the shot clock.
Sully is putting up Bass like numbers, with out the same amount of experiences. Solid for a back up PF.
Now Bass,Lee,and Melo works numbers wise, send them to Utah, Send Big Al to Atlanta and Ship Smith to Boston. Not sure if all teams would jump on this, but would be a better trade then giving up the good half of the bench.
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I agree Green needs more time, particularly against the tougher units with Pierce out there. They are both good in ISO and can create match up nightmares.
I also think that Sullinger needs way more time out there. To think we drafted this guy at 21 still baffles me. He was an absolute steal.
The problem for Sully right now is that he can't get his shot off around the basket comfortably- he's working on it and he's smart enough that he'll develop a way to score amongst the trees in the NBA.
Doc's dilemma is that Sully is a rebounding BEAST. I mean he's gotta be the best, or one of the best rookie rebounders since Fareid right?
But because he can't get his shot off 100% around the rim yet without getting swatted, you're basically sticking him in there to get the rebound and kick it out like Reggie Evans.
The kid has so much talent and we want him to be a stretch 4/5 like KG and nail that 15-18 footer.We want him to be the wealthy version of Carlos Boozer that can shoot, rebound AND play defense.
He's been phenomenal attacking the glass on both ends and just manhandling some NBA giants. I can only imagine how strong and effective he'll be in 2-3 years time.
Free Jeff Green, free Jared Sullinger!
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How about on December 15th we just trade some package of Courtney Lee, Sully, Bradley, Melo and future 1sts for an impact big (Gortat, Big Al, Josh Smith, etc) .. and then just start Jeff Green at his natural SF and Pierce at SG.
Example:
PG - Rondo
SG - Pierce
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Big Al
... Bring Jason Terry and Barbosa off the bench to be the microwaves they are. Bass would be a very effective backup big.
Bad trade for the Celtics. Give WAY too much. PP and KG can't handle a ton of minutes, PP would have a hard time against fast SG's.
Bradley's D is going to be great in the playoffs against the other back courts not allowing them to get into there offense till later in the shot clock.
Sully is putting up Bass like numbers, with out the same amount of experiences. Solid for a back up PF.
Now Bass,Lee,and Melo works numbers wise, send them to Utah, Send Big Al to Atlanta and Ship Smith to Boston. Not sure if all teams would jump on this, but would be a better trade then giving up the good half of the bench.
If that's all value Atlanta or Utah can get for Smith or Jefferson I'd be stunned.
Bass is an average starter at best, Lee is an average reserve and Melo is a raw prospect. Jefferson and Smith are borderline all-stars. You need to give up talent to get talent. Volume mediocrity doesn't add up to enough to attract talent.
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How about on December 15th we just trade some package of Courtney Lee, Sully, Bradley, Melo and future 1sts for an impact big (Gortat, Big Al, Josh Smith, etc) .. and then just start Jeff Green at his natural SF and Pierce at SG.
Example:
PG - Rondo
SG - Pierce
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Big Al
... Bring Jason Terry and Barbosa off the bench to be the microwaves they are. Bass would be a very effective backup big.
Bad trade for the Celtics. Give WAY too much. PP and KG can't handle a ton of minutes, PP would have a hard time against fast SG's.
Bradley's D is going to be great in the playoffs against the other back courts not allowing them to get into there offense till later in the shot clock.
Sully is putting up Bass like numbers, with out the same amount of experiences. Solid for a back up PF.
Now Bass,Lee,and Melo works numbers wise, send them to Utah, Send Big Al to Atlanta and Ship Smith to Boston. Not sure if all teams would jump on this, but would be a better trade then giving up the good half of the bench.
Agreed, horrible trade. You can't give up Lee AND Bradley.
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If that's all value Atlanta or Utah can get for Smith or Jefferson I'd be stunned.
Bass is an average starter at best, Lee is an average reserve and Melo is a raw prospect. Jefferson and Smith are borderline all-stars. You need to give up talent to get talent. Volume mediocrity doesn't add up to enough to attract talent.
Nice, I gotta agree here. This just spells it out well IMHO. Utah doesnt really need more back up bigs either. If anything, they would want at least 1 impact guy like Jeff Green that can upgrade their rotation. He probably still doesnt get it done.
Problem here is that we just have a couple of undersized and overvalued players. Atlanta is more likely to trade with us directly if we can give them some quality depth. We just dont have a big to spare that they can use.
To get a trade like this done we will need a top 15 or so draft pick to compensate for the lack of talent. Aint gonna happen, sorry.
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Sully was a bit of a steal. He probably should have been a late lotto pick and we grabbed him at #21. Right now he's right up there as one of the 10 best rookies.
Still... if you get a chance to bring in a star-level big man for a late lotto pick... you do it.
I'll make it easier. Take off your homer goggles for a second. Would you rather have Meyers Leonard (picked 10 spots ahead of Sully, performing just as well and is over 7 feet tall) or would you rather have Big Al/Josh Smith/Pau ... You probably go with the established starting big at the expense of Meyers Leonard... in spite of the "impressive" 5 point 5 rebound averages. It's nice and all... but it's expendable when you're bringing in a guy who can put up 20 and 10 immediately.
Maybe someone will put on their homer glasses and point out that 2 of the 3 players that you claim can put up 20/10 immediately have never done so in their (fairly long) careers. Apparently not wearing those glasses doesn't lead to improved vision.
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I agree Green needs more time, particularly against the tougher units with Pierce out there. They are both good in ISO and can create match up nightmares.
I also think that Sullinger needs way more time out there. To think we drafted this guy at 21 still baffles me. He was an absolute steal.
The problem for Sully right now is that he can't get his shot off around the basket comfortably- he's working on it and he's smart enough that he'll develop a way to score amongst the trees in the NBA.
Doc's dilemma is that Sully is a rebounding BEAST. I mean he's gotta be the best, or one of the best rookie rebounders since Fareid right?
But because he can't get his shot off 100% around the rim yet without getting swatted, you're basically sticking him in there to get the rebound and kick it out like Reggie Evans.
The kid has so much talent and we want him to be a stretch 4/5 like KG and nail that 15-18 footer.We want him to be the wealthy version of Carlos Boozer that can shoot, rebound AND play defense.
He's been phenomenal attacking the glass on both ends and just manhandling some NBA giants. I can only imagine how strong and effective he'll be in 2-3 years time.
Free Jeff Green, free Jared Sullinger!
I think sully has been doing a great job at not getting swatted to be honest. His up-fake has got numerous guys landing on his back and giving him free throws and he has scored several tip-ins.
Per 36 this guy is 10/10 already. For a rookie they're great numbers.
This is why I'm so hesitant to package sully for a middle of the heap player like Gortat.
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I almost wonder if Green is playing so few minutes because his stamina isnt quite there yet...he's still being productive in his 23-25minutes...but im not sure why he i'snt getting minutes over guys like Bass/Lee
whether its illness or not, Barbosa seems to have fallen out of doc's rotation.
I think there is something to this, and Doc wanted to ease Jeff back into the league. We forget that the NBA season is 82-games long, with a ton of travel, and with a grinding playoff system. Not the best recipe for someone coming off of open-heart surgery.
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SAW IT! Just watched 2nd Philly game on rerun, Green very clearly raised his arm to bench for sub and pierce is put in
This would be expected off heart surgery but was wondering a bit ago if they were keeping his minutes in check.
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Green off the bench has work the last few games.
I rather see Lee put back in the starting lineup until AB returns and takes that spot back.
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Green off the bench has work the last few games.
I rather see Lee put back in the starting lineup until AB returns and takes that spot back.
I FULLY agree on the Lee part. If Terry's shot is off he doesn't offer us much, he hustles on defense and keeps ball moving on offense but he can do the same from bench. Lee will really hustle and bring good defense every game. Terry is "microwave" like, he can come in and change a game easily. I'm wondering if he might be more comfortable at this point coming off bench? Of course watching Rondo's legs last game I'm wondering if he is due a break and lee and terry will start. Both rondo & paul aren't looking fully healthy, rondo for sure did his ankle.