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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: mainevent on December 05, 2012, 11:58:22 PM

Title: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mainevent on December 05, 2012, 11:58:22 PM
I recall Danny telling Red that he would have traded Bird when Bird was no longer "Bird-like", which is basically when his back could no longer stand the pounding and Bird was at the end of his career. I see the same for our beloved Captain. While the will is there, he's really becoming a liability especially on the defensive side. Sure he still has a good game or two but overall I'm sorry but he is not a benefit to this team right now. His skills are declining.

I think Danny can and will pull the trigger if the right offer came up by the deadline. Only problem is this....Rondo is attached at the hip to Paul. Many may not see it, but Rondo feels a sense of commitment to Paul and you can see it if you watch closely in games. No matter how much Paul is struggling, Rondo still tries to get him buckets, unlike he did with #20. He would ice #20 in a heartbeat if his shots weren't falling. He doesn't and won't do that with Paul. I think if Danny got rid of Pierce before the season ended, Rondo would sulk like he did with Perk which wouldn't be a good thing.

Lastly, I would AT MINIMUM tinker with the idea of starting Green and bringing Paul off the bench. Don't know how happy he'd be about that but oh well.

Of course this is just my opinion, but it bothers me to see Paul struggle on the offensive end and on defense....well, I'll save that for another night!
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: blink on December 06, 2012, 12:08:08 AM
I recall Danny telling Red that he would have traded Bird when Bird was no longer "Bird-like", which is basically when his back could no longer stand the pounding and Bird was at the end of his career. I see the same for our beloved Captain. While the will is there, he's really becoming a liability especially on the defensive side. Sure he still has a good game or two but overall I'm sorry but he is not a benefit to this team right now. His skills are declining.

I think Danny can and will pull the trigger if the right offer came up by the deadline. Only problem is this....Rondo is attached at the hip to Paul. Many may not see it, but Rondo feels a sense of commitment to Paul and you can see it if you watch closely in games. No matter how much Paul is struggling, Rondo still tries to get him buckets, unlike he did with #20. He would ice #20 in a heartbeat if his shots weren't falling. He doesn't and won't do that with Paul. I think if Danny got rid of Pierce before the season ended, Rondo would sulk like he did with Perk which wouldn't be a good thing.

Lastly, I would AT MINIMUM tinker with the idea of starting Green and bringing Paul off the bench. Don't know how happy he'd be about that but oh well.

Of course this is just my opinion, but it bothers me to see Paul struggle on the offensive end and on defense....well, I'll save that for another night!

I don't agree with trading PP, but I might be on board with bringing him off the bench if he continues to struggle against quicker more athletic 3's.  I have been wondering for a while now how PP would react to Doc doing to him what Doc did to RA last year.  Would green blossom as a starter?  I have no idea.  Would PP be able to dominate backup 3's more than green?  Probably.  Does it mess with team chemistry to move PP to the bench?  absolutely...

If PP was a bit smaller / quicker I think moving him to the 2 and green starting at the 3 would have been a good solution until AB gets back.  It would let terry come off the bench w/ PP and create a lot of mismatches.  Probably never happen though.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Kane3387 on December 06, 2012, 12:26:46 AM
PP won't be traded unless he wants to be and even then he might not be. Dunca, KG, Pierce, Kobe, and Dirk will never be traded.  And I am not talking about No Trade Clauses which all those other guys have. It's about legacy and tradition.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 06, 2012, 01:55:15 AM
PP won't be traded unless he wants to be and even then he might not be. Dunca, KG, Pierce, Kobe, and Dirk will never be traded.  And I am not talking about No Trade Clauses which all those other guys have. It's about legacy and tradition.

Trust me, danny will trade pierce if the right piece came along. Pierce has already been on the trading block before. Legacy and tradition lol.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: alajet on December 06, 2012, 02:33:16 AM
I recall Danny telling Red that he would have traded Bird when Bird was no longer "Bird-like", which is basically when his back could no longer stand the pounding and Bird was at the end of his career. I see the same for our beloved Captain. While the will is there, he's really becoming a liability especially on the defensive side. Sure he still has a good game or two but overall I'm sorry but he is not a benefit to this team right now. His skills are declining.

I think Danny can and will pull the trigger if the right offer came up by the deadline. Only problem is this....Rondo is attached at the hip to Paul. Many may not see it, but Rondo feels a sense of commitment to Paul and you can see it if you watch closely in games. No matter how much Paul is struggling, Rondo still tries to get him buckets, unlike he did with #20. He would ice #20 in a heartbeat if his shots weren't falling. He doesn't and won't do that with Paul. I think if Danny got rid of Pierce before the season ended, Rondo would sulk like he did with Perk which wouldn't be a good thing.

Lastly, I would AT MINIMUM tinker with the idea of starting Green and bringing Paul off the bench. Don't know how happy he'd be about that but oh well.

Of course this is just my opinion, but it bothers me to see Paul struggle on the offensive end and on defense....well, I'll save that for another night!

So, what great piece you will get in return so that you have a starting-caliber, go-to scorer?
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: jdz101 on December 06, 2012, 02:43:42 AM
PP won't be traded unless he wants to be and even then he might not be. Dunca, KG, Pierce, Kobe, and Dirk will never be traded.  And I am not talking about No Trade Clauses which all those other guys have. It's about legacy and tradition.

Danny was very close to trading paul to the nets last year for their early first round pick and a filler. Nets wanted him but settled for trading that pick to portland for gerald wallace.

Not sure if it was the pick that ended up being Lillard or Meyers Leonard.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: alajet on December 06, 2012, 05:01:55 AM
PP won't be traded unless he wants to be and even then he might not be. Dunca, KG, Pierce, Kobe, and Dirk will never be traded.  And I am not talking about No Trade Clauses which all those other guys have. It's about legacy and tradition.

Danny was very close to trading paul to the nets last year for their early first round pick and a filler. Nets wanted him but settled for trading that pick to portland for gerald wallace.

Not sure if it was the pick that ended up being Lillard or Meyers Leonard.

It's Lillard.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: gpap on December 06, 2012, 07:37:25 AM
I would trade Pierce in a heartbeat. Has anybody been watching his play at all this season?
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Eddie20 on December 06, 2012, 07:58:57 AM
Chad Ford:

Quote
Heard a couple of rumors that Rudy Gay could be on the block? Any chance the Grizzlies trade him? Chad Ford (1:04 PM): It was explored this summer ... but now that the Grizzlies are playing the best basketball of any team in the NBA? I don't see it. This team has a legitimate chance to win a NBA title this year. You don't mess with that.

If we could somehow land Rudy Gay for Pierce then I would do it.

Why for C's? We get younger. Gay's contract runs until 2015, which is when most of our contracts expire. Although we are sending Pierce to Memphis, they are a serious contender and it would save some face with fans and media.

Why for Grizzlies? Gay's contract expiries in 2015, but most importantly it has increases each year with a max of over 19M in the final year. That might be too much for a small market team to absorb. Plus, there is only a partial guarantee of Pierce's deal next season (5M I believe), so they could have the option of saving even further money if they decide to waive him after this season.

I'm fairly certain that the Grizz would have to strongly consider a package of Pierce, a prospect (Melo), 2013 1st rd pick, and cash (if necessary) for Gay. Not to mention that Pierce probably fits better in Memphis' halfcourt offensive style (alongside Gasol & Randolph) because of his game and shooting ability, while Gay is better suited to run with Rondo in the uptempo system we continue to want to run.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Roy H. on December 06, 2012, 08:08:18 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: slamtheking on December 06, 2012, 08:11:28 AM
Chad Ford:

Quote
Heard a couple of rumors that Rudy Gay could be on the block? Any chance the Grizzlies trade him? Chad Ford (1:04 PM): It was explored this summer ... but now that the Grizzlies are playing the best basketball of any team in the NBA? I don't see it. This team has a legitimate chance to win a NBA title this year. You don't mess with that.

If we could somehow land Rudy Gay for Pierce then I would do it.

Why for C's? We get younger. Gay's contract runs until 2015, which is when most of our contracts expire. Although we are sending Pierce to Memphis, they are a serious contender and it would save some face with fans and media.

Why for Grizzlies? Gay's contract expiries in 2015, but most importantly it has increases each year with a max of over 19M in the final year. That might be too much for a small market team to absorb. Plus, there is only a partial guarantee of Pierce's deal next season (5M I believe), so they could have the option of saving even further money if they decide to waive him after this season.

I'm fairly certain that the Grizz would have to strongly consider a package of Pierce, a prospect (Melo), 2013 1st rd pick, and cash (if necessary) for Gay. Not to mention that Pierce probably fits better in Memphis' halfcourt offensive style (alongside Gasol & Randolph) because of his game and shooting ability, while Gay is better suited to run with Rondo in the uptempo system we continue to want to run.
I don't see PP getting traded at this point of his career.  However, IF Danny were to trade him, this would be the kind of deal I could understand.  not fond of Gay's contract but adding him to the current lineup while only losing PP/Melo would be a real coup
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: celtics2 on December 06, 2012, 08:17:49 AM
Rondo went into mourning when Perk went can't imagine how he'd react with Pierce gone. Besides don't think we'd get much in return to help us. He is still capable of shoring up this team.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Who on December 06, 2012, 08:33:13 AM
I've been a fan of the Rudy Gay for Paul Pierce trade idea for a long time now. If Memphis would do that, I'd pull the trigger immediately.

That said, I think Pierce has gotten too old. I can't see them giving up Gay for Paul at this point. Gay has improved considerably over the last two years and Pierce's few remaining seasons keep getting less and less.

I think the window (if there ever was one to begin with) for a Gay for Pierce trade has closed.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: BballTim on December 06, 2012, 08:42:40 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Eddie20 on December 06, 2012, 08:53:10 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mctyson on December 06, 2012, 08:59:49 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

Not if the goal is to win championships, or at least contend, year-in and year-out.

But I think Danny's point was more about the physical aspects of the players, not the ability.  Danny was not saying trade Hall-of-Famers because they can't shoot or pass anymore, but trade them because the moment will arrive when they can't run or jump anymore.  Which happened.

It will happen to Pierce too.  I hope it happens after his contract is up, and after he retires.  But it could happen this year.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: scaryjerry on December 06, 2012, 09:02:07 AM
Rondo went into mourning when Perk went can't imagine how he'd react with Pierce gone. Besides don't think we'd get much in return to help us. He is still capable of shoring up this team.



Perk was his best friend...I'm sure he wouldn't take a pierce trade any worse.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Roy H. on December 06, 2012, 09:03:49 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

Not if the goal is to win championships, or at least contend, year-in and year-out.

Red oversaw 16 championships, Danny has won one.  I trust Coach Auerbach.

Trading Larry Bird wouldn't have won this team a title.  Neither would trading Paul Pierce.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: celts55 on December 06, 2012, 09:35:45 AM
Truth be told, I don't have a problem so much with trading him, it's that I don't see why anyone would trade for him? I mean if you're seeing his skills declining, I would imagine so are GM's from other teams. I believe he makes somewhere in the 16 million doller range and has 2 more years on his contract.
So what can you reasonably expect to get in return? Someone elses bad contract? Maybe if someone was missing that one piece and this was the last year of his contract than something could happen.
If anyone has a real idea what you could get for him that makes sense please let me know.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: wdleehi on December 06, 2012, 09:40:15 AM
Could there be a worse time to trade Pierce?


He is in a slump during the part of the season where the Celtics take it slow.


So basically a time for low value on Pierce. 

Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: BballTim on December 06, 2012, 10:22:59 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.

  Trading PP and RA (both in their mid-30s and your 3rd and 5th or so best players) isn't the same as trading Bird and McHale would have been. The offer for McHale was Perkins and Schrempf, both fairly young players. Compare that to OJ Mayo. Danny breaking up the big 3 in 2010 would have been somewhat similar to Red's choice, but he kept the team intact instead of making any big trades.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: PhoSita on December 06, 2012, 10:28:43 AM
The only way you could ever justify trading Pierce is if you were getting a guaranteed title in return.  Obviously that's never going to happen.  So he shouldn't be traded.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Eddie20 on December 06, 2012, 10:45:08 AM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.

  Trading PP and RA (both in their mid-30s and your 3rd and 5th or so best players) isn't the same as trading Bird and McHale would have been. The offer for McHale was Perkins and Schrempf, both fairly young players. Compare that to OJ Mayo. Danny breaking up the big 3 in 2010 would have been somewhat similar to Red's choice, but he kept the team intact instead of making any big trades.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I took his comment as suggesting that Ainge had a different mindset when put in the same position. Which I don't think is true at all judging by how he offered Pierce to NJ and Allen for Mayo and Bledsoe is separate trades.

BballTim, you can't compare the physical condition of Bird and McHale in 1988 to Pierce and Allen in 2010, so I don't think Ainge keeping the team intact following our Finals loss is similar to Red's choice. I think a more appropriate comparison is exploring Pierce and Allen trades last season, and Ainge didn't blink.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 06, 2012, 10:45:45 AM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

*Edit* Every one except collins is shooting a better percentage.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Roy H. on December 06, 2012, 10:48:06 AM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Eddie20 on December 06, 2012, 11:15:52 AM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: gpap on December 06, 2012, 11:19:48 AM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

*Edit* Every one except collins is shooting a better percentage.

Agreed. This is another one of those instances where fans are letting sentimentally cloud judgement. I love Pierce for what he's meant to the Celtics.

Having said that, his play has declined BADLY. If the Celts play Miami in the ECF again this  year, I shudder to think of Pierce trying to defend Lebron.

It's important to judge players on how they are currently playing, not how they played 5 years ago.

If that was the case, then Allen Iverson would the most sought after free agent right now.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Roy H. on December 06, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mainevent on December 06, 2012, 11:48:07 AM
The only way you could ever justify trading Pierce is if you were getting a guaranteed title in return.  Obviously that's never going to happen.  So he shouldn't be traded.

Why is this? Paul is not the cornerstone of the franchise any longer. I think he's still a vital piece, but vital pieces can be traded. The only person I think is untradeable on this team as it stands is KG. He will NEVER be traded as he will be a cornerstone until he's done barring injuries. Rondo has been dangled in the past and don't put it past Danny to dangle him again in the future. We won't get back a "franchise" player for Paul at this point in his career, but we shouldn't settle for anything less than an all-star caliber player if this was to happen.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mainevent on December 06, 2012, 11:53:48 AM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Paul is old and getting older (in his game) by the day. JG is young and with the right amount of attitude and work ethic can very much be on the rise in this league. To compare their stats at this point is useless because Paul has way more opportunity. The majority of the plays called are for him still. Most importantly, it's not always about shooting percentages but what's transpiring with his "overall" game. I don't care how much of a fan one is of PP, you have to admit he is more than a step behind on the defensive side of the ball. While he's not the main reason our D is seemingly a weak link this year, he definitely won't help improve it! I say get the young guy out there with the 1st unit and allow him to gain confidence. Allow his game to mature and I think you'd see the benefits it would reap sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: Roy H. on December 06, 2012, 12:01:56 PM
Most importantly, it's not always about shooting percentages but what's transpiring with his "overall" game. I don't care how much of a fan one is of PP, you have to admit he is more than a step behind on the defensive side of the ball. While he's not the main reason our D is seemingly a weak link this year, he definitely won't help improve it!

In terms of points allowed per possession, Pierce ranks 40th in the NBA.  Green is 116th.  Pierce ranks 2nd (tied) on the team in Defensive Rating; Green is 10th.

If there's an argument to be made that Green is a better defender than Pierce, I'd like to hear it.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: wdleehi on December 06, 2012, 12:04:19 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Paul is old and getting older (in his game) by the day. JG is young and with the right amount of attitude and work ethic can very much be on the rise in this league. To compare their stats at this point is useless because Paul has way more opportunity. The majority of the plays called are for him still. Most importantly, it's not always about shooting percentages but what's transpiring with his "overall" game. I don't care how much of a fan one is of PP, you have to admit he is more than a step behind on the defensive side of the ball. While he's not the main reason our D is seemingly a weak link this year, he definitely won't help improve it! I say get the young guy out there with the 1st unit and allow him to gain confidence. Allow his game to mature and I think you'd see the benefits it would reap sooner rather than later.


Can you please show us some of the evidence that Green is raising his game?
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: BballTim on December 06, 2012, 12:24:32 PM
Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.

  Trading PP and RA (both in their mid-30s and your 3rd and 5th or so best players) isn't the same as trading Bird and McHale would have been. The offer for McHale was Perkins and Schrempf, both fairly young players. Compare that to OJ Mayo. Danny breaking up the big 3 in 2010 would have been somewhat similar to Red's choice, but he kept the team intact instead of making any big trades.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I took his comment as suggesting that Ainge had a different mindset when put in the same position. Which I don't think is true at all judging by how he offered Pierce to NJ and Allen for Mayo and Bledsoe is separate trades.

BballTim, you can't compare the physical condition of Bird and McHale in 1988 to Pierce and Allen in 2010, so I don't think Ainge keeping the team intact following our Finals loss is similar to Red's choice. I think a more appropriate comparison is exploring Pierce and Allen trades last season, and Ainge didn't blink.

  McHale probably averaged 21/8 over the next 3 seasons, and Bird, when healthy, was a top 3 player in the league. I don't think PP and Ray are at anywhere near that level.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: PhoSita on December 06, 2012, 12:42:06 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Yeah.  Pierce is and probably always will be a better player than Jeff Green.

Doesn't mean Jeff is necessarily a bad player -- or at least that he always will be one. 

But I think often people get too caught up in how good Jeff Green "looks" at times.  He makes a nice drive or gets a dunk, and he looks the part, and suddenly people start thinking he should turn into Rudy Gay.

The sooner we start having reasonable expectations for Green (especially that aren't tied to his contract), the sooner everybody involved will be better off.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: manl_lui on December 06, 2012, 12:43:29 PM
Pierce should retire a Celtic...

but if Danny feels trading him is the best option, then so be it...it will hurt, but if that trade in the long run gives us championships than I won't complain...but that is a big IF

Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: wdleehi on December 06, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Yeah.  Pierce is and probably always will be a better player than Jeff Green.

Doesn't mean Jeff is necessarily a bad player -- or at least that he always will be one. 

But I think often people get too caught up in how good Jeff Green "looks" at times.  He makes a nice drive or gets a dunk, and he looks the part, and suddenly people start thinking he should turn into Rudy Gay.

The sooner we start having reasonable expectations for Green (especially that aren't tied to his contract), the sooner everybody involved will be better off.


It happens when someone suggest pushing Pierce over so Green can play instead. 


(OK, some posters just don't like Green at the moment as well because of how he is playing)


Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: fitzhickey on December 06, 2012, 03:03:55 PM
Only if we get Durant in return
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mrpoundforpound on December 07, 2012, 06:58:31 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mrpoundforpound on December 07, 2012, 07:00:27 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.
NO way he can. Jeff green has much more athleticism and has great heart and Bball IQ since hes a nice guy and seems intelligent. Pierce is a high IQ player as well but on the decline.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: alajet on December 07, 2012, 07:11:49 PM

Jeff has unlimited upside

Um, no?


Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

Blake Griffin dunks the ball great, and he's still not even a quarter of 36-year-old TD.


Jeff green has much more athleticism and has great heart

He is doing everything he is capable of to prove you that he has no heart whatsoever.

Green is young, athletic and.. that's pretty much it.
In no way he is a building block for a contending team.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: jowwwman on December 07, 2012, 07:33:34 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on December 07, 2012, 07:52:42 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
What a joke
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mrpoundforpound on December 07, 2012, 08:02:58 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
What a joke

You and me are the only ones with the foresight that see the potential of green being a steal for the celtics. dont worry the rest of the board will awaken once they see green make the all star team next year!
Title: Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
Post by: mainevent on December 07, 2012, 08:06:44 PM
Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
What a joke

You and me are the only ones with the foresight that see the potential of green being a steal for the celtics. dont worry the rest of the board will awaken once they see green make the all star team next year!

Make that the three of us. A lot of people on this board are gonna eat their words about Green.  8)