CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ctrey on December 04, 2012, 09:38:34 AM
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It seems to me he is really struggling. Defensive ability tends to drop off before scoring ability does and it looks like that is happening. Guys he is guarding are torching us. He was never that quick anyway and now he is really lumbering around out there. There is now much we can do about it as Green has shown reason why he should be starting unfortunately. My hope is he hangs em up after this season so we can amnesty him.
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Pierce will turn it around soon enough.
Celtics still need Pierce this season and next.
Otherwise, they need to blow it up and rebuild around Rondo.
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Pierce will turn it around soon enough.
Celtics still need Pierce this season and next.
Otherwise, they need to blow it up and rebuild around Rondo.
While we know Pierce will be there when we need him, I also think there is reason to believe he is what he is defensively at this point. He still is incredibly smart, and can really play tough when he wants to...but I also think he has lost more than a step over the last couple of years.
Pierce is certainly still good enough to be an important player on this team, but we just can't expect him to carry the team on both ends like he has at times in the past. That job needs to fall on Rondo, and perhaps some of the other guys stepping up to pick up the slack.
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I think it seems worse than it is since he's gotten broken in two consecutive games.
I think Paul and KG are very aware that they need to peak at playoff time. I think they know what they're doing, although I'd much rather have PP play fewer minutes harder.
Last year I remember watching the wolves game (which wasn't until March) and realizing that KG had a whole other gear he hadn't even touched yet.
I'd love the same thing from pierce this year, especially since he CAN rest as Green seems to play better with more minutes.
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It seems to me he is really struggling. Defensive ability tends to drop off before scoring ability does and it looks like that is happening. Guys he is guarding are torching us. He was never that quick anyway and now he is really lumbering around out there. There is now much we can do about it as Green has shown reason why he should be starting unfortunately. My hope is he hangs em up after this season so we can amnesty him.
I am much more concerned about his propensity to dribble into traffic and cough the ball up.
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I am much more concerned about his propensity to dribble into traffic and cough the ball up.
Yes! How much of this is him not getting calls he's used to? I see Paul barreling into a group of 3 or 4 opposing players and I just assume there's going to be a whistle.
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I am much more concerned about his propensity to dribble into traffic and cough the ball up.
Yes! How much of this is him not getting calls he's used to? I see Paul barreling into a group of 3 or 4 opposing players and I just assume there's going to be a whistle.
That's because he is not beating his man to the spot like he used to.
This is something that I think people miss, when it comes to complaining about the refs. There is a reason guys like Lebron, and a younger Pierce always got the calls. They are just so quick, that defenders are never in position on them, so when the contact is made, it is a defensive foul.
Now, Pierce has lost just enough of a step that when that contact is made, more and more, the defender actually has a right to the spot, because they beat him to it, so its either a no-call or an offensive foul.
I do think Pierce knows this though, which is why he has been taking more jumpers, and has evolved as a player into more of a jumpshooter over the last couple of years. Although it is an issue with the team, because they need someone (Rondo?) to create those shots at the end of games, that Pierce used to make.
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I think his knee is bothering him. If his defense continues this way I'd rather start green (which DOES NOT mean Green is a better player). Our starters run run run, we post green up on opposing sf. Second unit is anchored by PP who would have bradley or lee with him to help on defense and paul would "run" the offense. Limit his minutes AND make the team better as a whole.
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I think his knee is bothering him. If his defense continues this way I'd rather start green (which DOES NOT mean Green is a better player). Our starters run run run, we post green up on opposing sf. Second unit is anchored by PP who would have bradley or lee with him to help on defense and paul would "run" the offense. Limit his minutes AND make the team better as a whole.
After watching him in Rondo's absense, I definitely don't want PP running the offense. he's become very turnover-prone and his ballhandling skills have noticeably declined.
He's not as bad as Ray was the past couple of years but he's getting there quick.
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I think his knee is bothering him. If his defense continues this way I'd rather start green (which DOES NOT mean Green is a better player). Our starters run run run, we post green up on opposing sf. Second unit is anchored by PP who would have bradley or lee with him to help on defense and paul would "run" the offense. Limit his minutes AND make the team better as a whole.
After watching him in Rondo's absense, I definitely don't want PP running the offense. he's become very turnover-prone and his ballhandling skills have noticeably declined.
He's not as bad as Ray was the past couple of years but he's getting there quick.
Paul's always been turnover prone, so is Rondo for what its worth.
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I haven't noticed any drop off in Pierce and if there has been one I don't think it will be a season long thing. I mean remember kg last year?
Side note- does anyone else find it funny that for the last 5 years every year people talk about how much Pierce has slimmed down and how fit he looks and explosive?
To me its just the same old Pierce (in a good way) every year.
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I think his knee is bothering him. If his defense continues this way I'd rather start green (which DOES NOT mean Green is a better player). Our starters run run run, we post green up on opposing sf. Second unit is anchored by PP who would have bradley or lee with him to help on defense and paul would "run" the offense. Limit his minutes AND make the team better as a whole.
After watching him in Rondo's absense, I definitely don't want PP running the offense. he's become very turnover-prone and his ballhandling skills have noticeably declined.
He's not as bad as Ray was the past couple of years but he's getting there quick.
Paul's always been turnover prone, so is Rondo for what its worth.
Rondo has one of the best assist/turnover ratios in the league every year.
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Pierce's defense is underrated, I think he's doing a great job, staying in front of guys, moving laterally, rebounding
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I am much more concerned about his propensity to dribble into traffic and cough the ball up.
Yes! How much of this is him not getting calls he's used to? I see Paul barreling into a group of 3 or 4 opposing players and I just assume there's going to be a whistle.
This was a big observation from me as well. Especially in the Nets game. He continually drove to the basket with no whistle anywhere. I couldnt believe it.
Hes getting older and slower and that is very noticable. Falling down in traffic a lot and coughing up some weird turnovers. Still want him on my squad though, no questions asked.
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Defensively, I trust Paul Pierce in big moments. Maybe he's noticeably slower than he was in, say, 2004, but he's about the same guy, athletically speaking, that he's he's been since the 2009 season as far as I can tell. He's a ridiculously smart and skilled basketball player on both ends of the court. Personally, unless he suffers another serious injury, I'm not too worried about him.
As far as the turnovers when driving through traffic go, those have always been something you accept as a part of Paul Pierce's game. And, fans have always complained about it. The way I see it, this is something that we need to accept as a by-product of his aggressiveness.
If he stops going to the hard into the lane, then those turnovers will decrease. I don't want him to ever stop going hard into the lane.
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Sadly Hes declined in every aspect of the game other than veteran savvy.
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I think his knee is bothering him. If his defense continues this way I'd rather start green (which DOES NOT mean Green is a better player). Our starters run run run, we post green up on opposing sf. Second unit is anchored by PP who would have bradley or lee with him to help on defense and paul would "run" the offense. Limit his minutes AND make the team better as a whole.
After watching him in Rondo's absense, I definitely don't want PP running the offense. he's become very turnover-prone and his ballhandling skills have noticeably declined.
He's not as bad as Ray was the past couple of years but he's getting there quick.
from the reverse, paul can dribble, ray was never a great ball handler
paul has always had turnovers, bad ones, when he handled more of the offense in the pierce/walker era he averaged quite a few
i'm thinking more of last year, lee/terry/bradley brings the ball up then the offensive sets run through paul
again his leg is in full sleeve , i wonder if his knee is bothering him and makaveli sorry buddy but if you think he's doing a good job staying in front of his man etc, he isn't, also a lot of the missed rotations are paul
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I am much more concerned about his propensity to dribble into traffic and cough the ball up.
Yes! How much of this is him not getting calls he's used to? I see Paul barreling into a group of 3 or 4 opposing players and I just assume there's going to be a whistle.
I don't think it's much about calls at all. He's lost the ball several times around the top of the key without any contact -- either while trying to take the step-back, or get to the basket.
He can still give you a lot of points simply because he's got all the shots -- but you can't have him play 36 minutes and do most of his damage in isolations anymore. It simply won't work.
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Start green, finish with pierce
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Actually, Paul is allowing the least points per possession on the team http://www.synergysportstech.com/. A couple crossovers dont make someone a bad defender. You have to be willing to get embarrased to play good defense in the first place.
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Start green, finish with pierce
this might make sense, use green rondo and lee's strengths, speed and getting up and down court, kg can still beat most centers down
2nd unit more run on opportunities and 1/2 court execution, pp, bass/sully and terry
bradley can go with either group as can bass/sully but i'd bet bass can run the floor a lot better
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He's always a slow starter, and he will get better IF he stays healthy.
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PP's defense has been weak for along time......his offense was good to very good....but he is looking....off....on both ends....
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Pierce's defense was not good against Brooklyn, of course. He was just off that game on both ends of the floor after two good games. I'm not surprised that it happened. He's old. Sometimes he looks really fresh and sometimes he looks like he has no legs. The most frustrating and sad part about seeing Pierce leave his prime is not knowing how he's going to be physically from game to game.
Overall, I think his defense has been actually very good. He can still keep guys in front him after all these years. Just watch how easily guys blow buy Kobe now and it's refreshing to see Pierce still give a [dang] on defense.
His lateral quickness of course isn't what it used to be. It used to be exceptional. Maybe the thing I've liked most about Pierce is how a relatively pudgy guy in a league of genetic freaks and thoroughbreds could move laterally as well as anybody in the league. It was mystifying. I have some 2008 playoff games against Cleveland on my hard drive and it's pretty breathtaking seeing Pierce contain Lebron's penetration in isolation situations with lightning fast lateral movement. He played that year at around 250 pounds too, minimum.
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It seems to me he is really struggling.
It seems like he is struggling doing everything, but Hollinger still ranks him #5 overall in PER for small forwards.
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I am much more concerned about his propensity to dribble into traffic and cough the ball up.
Yes! How much of this is him not getting calls he's used to? I see Paul barreling into a group of 3 or 4 opposing players and I just assume there's going to be a whistle.
That's because he is not beating his man to the spot like he used to.
This is something that I think people miss, when it comes to complaining about the refs. There is a reason guys like Lebron, and a younger Pierce always got the calls. They are just so quick, that defenders are never in position on them, so when the contact is made, it is a defensive foul.
Now, Pierce has lost just enough of a step that when that contact is made, more and more, the defender actually has a right to the spot, because they beat him to it, so its either a no-call or an offensive foul.
I do think Pierce knows this though, which is why he has been taking more jumpers, and has evolved as a player into more of a jumpshooter over the last couple of years. Although it is an issue with the team, because they need someone (Rondo?) to create those shots at the end of games, that Pierce used to make.
I think you are giving the refs way too much credit. They suck 90% of the time.
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It seems to me he is really struggling. Defensive ability tends to drop off before scoring ability does and it looks like that is happening. Guys he is guarding are torching us. He was never that quick anyway and now he is really lumbering around out there. There is now much we can do about it as Green has shown reason why he should be starting unfortunately. My hope is he hangs em up after this season so we can amnesty him.
lol da hell have u been watchin? Pierce still leads our team in scorin aint like he flabby nd sick averaging 5ppg or sumthin