CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Kane3387 on December 02, 2012, 11:55:24 PM
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Laker just lost to Orlando at home.
Who turns it around first?
Lakers or Celtics?
We get Avery back soon. They get Nash back soon.
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The lakers didn't lose that game tonight. Orlando won it. The combination of hack-a-Dwight and then the pick and roll on offense to vucevic to exploit the lakers crappy D was great to watch.
Lakers offense was completely put to sleep by Dwight shooting and missing so many free throws and then the magic just killed them with zippy passes inside and out. Well coached.
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Gotta go with the Lakers because they have the superstars to "turn it around" by demolishing a bunch of bad teams in a row.
I'm not convinced either team is going very far in the playoffs without major changes or they suddenly figuring out how to get a lot more out of the pieces already on the team.
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Who knows, ill say us i guess. Hopefully we get AB back sooner than later.
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I think their problems are worse than ours by the way.
Pau is completely lifeless and disengaged. Their front line is too slow for today's NBA and other than Jamison their bench is extremely weak.
We have the better coach, better bench, and better chemistry at the moment. And that's saying something.
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Gotta go with the Lakers because they have the superstars to "turn it around" by demolishing a bunch of bad teams in a row.
I'm not convinced either team is going very far in the playoffs without major changes or they suddenly figuring out how to get a lot more out of the pieces already on the team.
I'm not convinced of anything this early in the season. If you put a gun to my head and told me to pick the teams that would be in the eastern conference finals tho id say the heat and celtics with confidence.
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I'll say the Celtics.
If for no other reason then chemistry. Sure, on-court neither team is playinf very cohesively, but at least the Celtics don't seem to mhave the off-court turmoil the Lakers do.
Also, if you look closely at how the Celtics have been playing, you'll see that we do have stretches where we play pretty darn good. These stretches are when KG is on the court.
So, add in a healthy Bradley, and as long as we can get to the playoffs, where KG's minutes will go up, and I think we still have a good chance to make noise in the playoffs. People will just have to accept we aren't going to be a regular season juggernaught.
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I think their problems are worse than ours by the way.
Pau is completely lifeless and disengaged. Their front line is too slow for today's NBA and other than Jamison their bench is extremely weak.
We have the better coach, better bench, and better chemistry at the moment. And that's saying something.
I think the Lakers need to dump Pau Gasol. Question is what can they get for him if his play is so lackluster?
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Both teams will get better, but both teams are more pretenders than real contenders at the present time.
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Both teams will get better, but both teams are more pretenders than real contenders at the present time.
Good thing the playoffs don't start today.
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we will turn it around first
we got a good solid team
and not depending on one person
to make it happen like the lakers are
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I think the Celts.
Green, Terry, and lee have looked a lot better lately. Our rebounding and defense have improved as well lately.
We get Rondo back and soon avery. Im pretty confident
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probably C's. some things are looking better recently. not great, but better. Lakers still have no depth and Pau seems to have mentally checked out.
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Both teams will get better, but both teams are more pretenders than real contenders at the present time.
True to this.
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
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probably C's. some things are looking better recently. not great, but better. Lakers still have no depth and Pau seems to have mentally checked out.
Agree.......check out these quotes from Kobe on Gasol:
""Put your big boy pants on. Just adjust," said Kobe Bryant. "You can't whine about it. I'm 34 years old. I'm running screen-and-rolls out there. Steve [Nash] is out and my [tail] is running up and down the court more than I have my entire career. You have to adjust to it. I stay after practice and work on my ball-handling, my screen and roll."
Sounds like trouble in paradise.
Also this from D'Antoni in the same RealGM article:
"We just have to be a more dynamic team," said Mike D'Antoni. "We're slow right now. Athletically, we're struggling against young teams that just run up and down."
...and as Nash and Kobe age by the day, I don't see it getting much bettter soon.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224790/Kobe_On_Gasol_Put_Your_Big_Boy_Pants_On_Adjust
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probably C's. some things are looking better recently. not great, but better. Lakers still have no depth and Pau seems to have mentally checked out.
Agree.......check out these quotes from Kobe on Gasol:
""Put your big boy pants on. Just adjust," said Kobe Bryant. "You can't whine about it. I'm 34 years old. I'm running screen-and-rolls out there. Steve [Nash] is out and my [tail] is running up and down the court more than I have my entire career. You have to adjust to it. I stay after practice and work on my ball-handling, my screen and roll."
Sounds like trouble in paradise.
Also this from D'Antoni in the same RealGM article:
"We just have to be a more dynamic team," said Mike D'Antoni. "We're slow right now. Athletically, we're struggling against young teams that just run up and down."
...and as Nash and Kobe age by the day, I don't see it getting much bettter soon.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224790/Kobe_On_Gasol_Put_Your_Big_Boy_Pants_On_Adjust
This is the kind of thing that could make Dwight move on.
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I mean MIke D's offense will be built around Nash's skillset... so it stands to reason that they will be significantly better once he returns.
Their problems right now are chemistry and lack of familiarity with their new coach...
Boston's problem comes down to lack of talent. 1 star PG, a star PF, two starting SF's, and four backup shooting guards doesn't make a ton of sense. A couple roster tweaks will fix us up real nice. It's simply not possible to fix our roster until Dec 15th or Jan 15th at the earliest when players like Bass and Jeff Green become tradeable.
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Also this from D'Antoni in the same RealGM article:
"We just have to be a more dynamic team," said Mike D'Antoni. "We're slow right now. Athletically, we're struggling against young teams that just run up and down."
...and as Nash and Kobe age by the day, I don't see it getting much bettter soon.
When Nash comes back it's likely that Dwight will be the only player getting more than 15 minutes a game that's under 32 years old. Coaching won't fix that.
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of course the Lakers....I think we were better off going for the rebuild and hoping for the best.
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
You certainly are a glass half full type of guy.....at least when it comes to any team not named the Celtics.
Oh how I wish we could bet on this so people could actually put their money where their mouth is
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
You certainly are a glass half full type of guy.....at least when it comes to any team not named the Celtics.
Oh how I wish we could bet on this so people could actually put their money where their mouth is
I think my glass is plenty full... I just said we'd maybe win a round or two. At the present, we'd limp into the playoffs with the 8th seed and get trounced in round 1 by Miami. The fact that I see us making some trades and moving up in the standings enough to match up with an Atlanta or Milwaukee is pretty positive.
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D'Antoni was the worst possible coach for this Laker team because he's all about transition and fast paced offense.
They need to run a half court set through Dwight Howard to be successful. Their pieces are not being used correctly.
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I believe BOS is already on the upswing.
Steve Blake will be out for another 6-8 weeks now, Kobe is calling out Pau in public, and with every loss I'm sure Dwight is unhappy.
Last night's loss to ORL couldn't have helped, either.
If they trade Pau, which is probably their main option, that chops down the twin towers, which I like. And DH will not get as many good looks without one of the best passing big men in the game in Pau. And unless LA fleeces another team (possible, given their history), they won't get anyone back that can truly help them.
I'd LOVE to see Pau in HOU somehow..with Asik, Harden and Lin. That'd be a dangerous team. I'd love for him to spend his last few years as a centerpiece and WITH a fabled big man as coach in McHale.
For BOS, we get AB back soon, Jeff Green is showing signs consistent play, and at least we are stable in the coaching area.
I'm waiting patiently for LA to implode...either that will happen, or they will get it together but still lose to either MEM or OKC in the playoffs.
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The Lakers will be more up and down during the regular season than Celtics due to the lack of depth on their roster. When 1-2 of their reliable contributors struggle, they are sink fast and often.
So I don't know who gets right first but LA is going to have multiple bad streaks in the regular season this year. They are just too top-heavy + those top heavy stars do not complement one another well enough. So this question of LA turning it around is going to get asked another 4-6 times before the playoffs come around.
When Boston get their act together, they'll have a much smoother ride to the playoffs. Better built for the regular season due to their superior depth with pieces that fit alongside one another.
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Hard to weigh in on this at all until Nash is back. They just have way too many options with Nash/Kobe/Gasol/Howard on the floor at the same time. These games they have now, just seem like playing in the sandbox.
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In all likelihood, both teams may end up failing to turn it around first.
Lakers screwed it up the moment they traded away Bynum. He was complementing Gasol a whole lot better (the difference is like earth and moon), and now, they will be forced to trade Gasol away, too, only to find zero chemistry throughout the middle of the season.
Celtics are waiting for Bradley to be the Messiah, and if he can't be him, we are looking at a total mess with a really weak bench (now, don't jump on me because I called the bench weak, because it really is. Having scorers like Terry and Green off the bench is very nice, but we are like Jekyll and Hide, with KG on and off the court).
Yeah, I vote for neither.
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Tough to say, but I think the Celtics have the mindset to pull it off, but lack the elite talent.
I think LA has the elite talent, but lacks the mindset.
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honestly, I think the C's have already started to turn it around...since Rondo's suspension, the team has played better defense and Green/Lee have started to find themselves offensively.
if the C's win by 1 or even 2 against milwaukee we are talking today about how Green/Lee have finally emerged and the defense is improving
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I can't get too excited yet about how up and down the Lakers look, though comments on this thread give me hope. I fear that they will become unbeatable. I am praying that it falls apart, but can't allow myself to believe it will really happen. Thanks to those for cogent explanations for why the Lakers will continue to struggle.
Who -- I couldn't tell by your comments if you are implying that despite an up/down regular season you think things will be different for the Lakers with tight rotations and increased halfcourt play in the playoffs.
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Who -- I couldn't tell by your comments if you are implying that despite an up/down regular season you think things will be different for the Lakers with tight rotations and increased halfcourt play in the playoffs.
Yes, I think they are much better built for the playoffs than for the regular season.
Hiring Mike D'Antoni could screw that up though. We'll see.
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I still think a team like OKC or maybe the Spurs can beat LA.
Nash even when healthy Can't guard guys like Parker/westbrook....and if you get physical with dwight he wilts
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I haven't seen a lot of the Lakers, so i don't really feel qualified to comment much other than to say that despite their talent level, they are a fairly slow footed team. The way to beat them appears to be to outrun them.
As to the Celtics, I think they are on the verge of turning the corner. My money's on the Cs to have a better record by the all star break.
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I'm stunned at how bad the Lakers have been. Who gives up 40 points in the fourth quarter at home when you have the best defensive center and small forward (over the past 5 years)?
That said, I think they'll turn things around, probably by shipping Gasol to Toronto for Bargnani and Calderone.
D'Antoni's system will be better for LA's bench players like Jamison and Meeks, who can stroke the three. Blake is also a good three point shooter, 39% lifetime, so when he gets back, he'll probably back up Kobe if Calderon comes aboard.
As constructed, the Lakers won't make a run unless Gasol can figure out how to play effectively in D'Antoni's system.
I don't think Boston has enough interior strength to contend. Either Sullinger needs to grow up fast, or DA needs to pull off a big trade to fix that weakness.
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I'm hoping the Lakers miss the playoffs this year and its the start of a ten year, no play-offs run.
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I'm hoping the Lakers miss the playoffs this year and its the start of a ten year, no play-offs run.
The Lakers will never miss the playoffs for that long, if for no other reason than that they are well managed and have tons of money. They'll pretty much always be able to assemble a half-way decent team.
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I'm hoping the Lakers find themselves at the start of a five-year run of being the second-best team in LA.
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
You certainly are a glass half full type of guy.....at least when it comes to any team not named the Celtics.
Oh how I wish we could bet on this so people could actually put their money where their mouth is
I think my glass is plenty full... I just said we'd maybe win a round or two. At the present, we'd limp into the playoffs with the 8th seed and get trounced in round 1 by Miami. The fact that I see us making some trades and moving up in the standings enough to match up with an Atlanta or Milwaukee is pretty positive.
You try so hard to be un-bias but it comes off as you trying to "reverse jinx" the Celtics or something.
Have any of your predictions in the past couple years come true? Or do you still blame the Rose injury and Garnett playing well (imagine that?!?) For our relative success last year?
Here are some possible excuses for your inevitable false predictions this year.
- I didn't know green was going to play like 6th man of the year candidate
-i didn't know KG was.goingto play like an all star
-i didn't know pierce was gonna play like an all star
-i didn't know rondo was going to start hitting that jump shot
-i didn't know AB was gonna continue to be a defensive beast
- I didn't know x player was going to get injured
Im sorry but there is so much talk during the season and putting a microscope on each game. Have fun with that. There is no doubt that I have already penciled in the Celts to the ECF.
Like I said last year they have WAY too much talent to be doing this bad
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
You certainly are a glass half full type of guy.....at least when it comes to any team not named the Celtics.
Oh how I wish we could bet on this so people could actually put their money where their mouth is
I think my glass is plenty full... I just said we'd maybe win a round or two. At the present, we'd limp into the playoffs with the 8th seed and get trounced in round 1 by Miami. The fact that I see us making some trades and moving up in the standings enough to match up with an Atlanta or Milwaukee is pretty positive.
You try so hard to be un-bias but it comes off as you trying to "reverse jinx" the Celtics or something.
Have any of your predictions in the past couple years come true? Or do you still blame the Rose injury and Garnett playing well (imagine that?!?) For our relative success last year?
Here are some possible excuses for your inevitable false predictions this year.
- I didn't know green was going to play like 6th man of the year candidate
-i didn't know KG was.goingto play like an all star
-i didn't know pierce was gonna play like an all star
-i didn't know rondo was going to start hitting that jump shot
-i didn't know AB was gonna continue to be a defensive beast
- I didn't know x player was going to get injured
Im sorry but there is so much talk during the season and putting a microscope on each game. Have fun with that. There is no doubt that I have already penciled in the Celts to the ECF.
Like I said last year they have WAY too much talent to be doing this bad
You are pretty optimistic if you have the team locked in to the ECF already.
Even certain improvement in the team play assured, New York twins are too loaded to look over, as well.
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
You certainly are a glass half full type of guy.....at least when it comes to any team not named the Celtics.
Oh how I wish we could bet on this so people could actually put their money where their mouth is
I think my glass is plenty full... I just said we'd maybe win a round or two. At the present, we'd limp into the playoffs with the 8th seed and get trounced in round 1 by Miami. The fact that I see us making some trades and moving up in the standings enough to match up with an Atlanta or Milwaukee is pretty positive.
Compare that "plenty full glass" to your opinion of the equally mediocre Lakers, who you picked to win, what was it, 70 or so games, and now consider to be favorites to win the west. At the present, they'd be hoping for good luck with their ping pong balls.
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Lakers. They have too much talent not to turn it around. Best big man in the game. 1st or 2nd best shooting guard in the game. Another top 5 big man in Pau... Both Jamison and Artest have game. Once Nash returns that team should start to look like newage Showtime. YOu're adding a top 5 playmaker and the #1 best shooter in the league. Give them a month or so to adjust to the new coach. Probably the favorite to win the West when the dust settles.
Boston will take until probably the trade deadline, but I do think we'll get it together. At the moment we have added some solid/mediocre talent (like 4 backup shooting guards), but the pieces don't really fit yet. Might take a couple moves. Mid-to-late February for them. Should play .500 ball until then. We should hobble into the playoffs and win a round or two.
You certainly are a glass half full type of guy.....at least when it comes to any team not named the Celtics.
Oh how I wish we could bet on this so people could actually put their money where their mouth is
I think my glass is plenty full... I just said we'd maybe win a round or two. At the present, we'd limp into the playoffs with the 8th seed and get trounced in round 1 by Miami. The fact that I see us making some trades and moving up in the standings enough to match up with an Atlanta or Milwaukee is pretty positive.
You try so hard to be un-bias but it comes off as you trying to "reverse jinx" the Celtics or something.
Have any of your predictions in the past couple years come true? Or do you still blame the Rose injury and Garnett playing well (imagine that?!?) For our relative success last year?
Here are some possible excuses for your inevitable false predictions this year.
- I didn't know green was going to play like 6th man of the year candidate
-i didn't know KG was.goingto play like an all star
-i didn't know pierce was gonna play like an all star
-i didn't know rondo was going to start hitting that jump shot
-i didn't know AB was gonna continue to be a defensive beast
- I didn't know x player was going to get injured
Im sorry but there is so much talk during the season and putting a microscope on each game. Have fun with that. There is no doubt that I have already penciled in the Celts to the ECF.
Like I said last year they have WAY too much talent to be doing this bad
You are pretty optimistic if you have the team locked in to the ECF already.
Even certain improvement in the team play assured, New York twins are too loaded to look over, as well.
I guess some would say that's optimistic. Id consider it an absolute failure if we didn't reach the ECF.
give me a break with these NJ/NY teams to. New Jersey has a bunch of born losers on their team, I mean honestly does anyone on that team scare you in the slightest minus Williams? Same goes for NY. And don't tell me that we lost twice.in Nov to them cause win or lose now I know who will win in the playoffs
Seriously remember everyone jumping on the Pacers and Sixers jock last year. I rolled my eyes then and im rolling my eyes now. They are just fun (apparently for some) stories for the regular season
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Hate to say it but Lakers.
Even though they have chemistry problems right now, I still like Nash, Kobe, Howard and Gasol over our starting five.
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Hate to say it but Lakers.
Even though they have chemistry problems right now, I still like Nash, Kobe, Howard and Gasol over our starting five.
Is Nash back already? Or are you just talking about who will be better?
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Just an aside. Why does anyone believe Andrea Bargnani holds any value whatsoever? Laker fans are actually pining after this guy.
He is truly a horrendous defender, and he doesn't make shots at a very good clip.
I saw him trying to guard a referee on a side pick and roll the other day.
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Why does anyone believe Andrea Bargnani holds any value whatsoever
Because he is tall.
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Why does anyone believe Andrea Bargnani holds any value whatsoever
Because he is tall.
He doesn't play tall though...
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The lakers just had one of the worst4 Q's, I've seen in a long time.
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The lakers just had one of the worst4 Q's, I've seen in a long time.
are we going to see Kobe kick anybody's behind tonight?
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The lakers just had one of the worst4 Q's, I've seen in a long time.
are we going to see Kobe kick anybody's behind tonight?
I know he can't blame Pau for this loss at all.
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The lakers just had one of the worst4 Q's, I've seen in a long time.
are we going to see Kobe kick anybody's behind tonight?
I know he can't blame Pau for this loss at all.
Kobe should blame himself. Stop jacking up crap shots and get your teammates involved.
31 shots in 35 minutes is absurd.
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Just an aside. Why does anyone believe Andrea Bargnani holds any value whatsoever? Laker fans are actually pining after this guy.
He is truly a horrendous defender, and he doesn't make shots at a very good clip.
I saw him trying to guard a referee on a side pick and roll the other day.
Bargnani is a strange fella. He has the game to carry a team on offense, but fails to do that more than once or twice a month.
But I don't agree about him as a defender. He has his problems in the pick and roll, and you should never let him switch to a quick guard or wing, but he is actually very good in the post.
He might have outstayed his welcome in Toronto, and I guess it wouldn't surprise anyone if he was traded this season. I don't think that he could help the Lakers anymore than Pau can. Last season I actually wanted to see him in green, but I'm not so sure about that anymore. He would be a better starter than Bass, though.