CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: kp4000 on December 02, 2012, 10:39:33 PM
-
Just came across this article on NBC's probasketball
The Celtics are going to be patient filling their roster because there is not a plethora of quality big men on the market to help immediately with rebounding. They are wary of the attitude and disposition of Kenyon Martin, who was not asked back to the Clippers because of his unhappiness with coach Vinny Del Negro. They may wait to see who’s available as of Jan. 5, when contracts become fully guaranteed for the season.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/02/celtics-wary-of-bringing-in-kenyon-martin-to-fill-teams-roster-spot/
Viewers can click on link and read the rest of story. So here's my problem with the Celtics being reluctant to sign Martin. The Celtics are in serious trouble with their front court depth. As currently constructed, the Celtics are too small and too offensive minded. They're being destroyed on the offensive and defensive boards, because they don't have a big man or men that can guard the paint and rebound effectively.
Everyone in and outside of Celtics Nation can see the Celtics struggles. Poor rebounding, defending and lack of energy is what is hurting the Celtics and why they're 9-8, sinking in the conference standings. Personally, I'm not a fan of some Danny Ainge's past or present signings. I think at times, Ainge has done nothing to address the Celtics recent flaws.
Ainge's best off-season: 2007, 2010
Garnett
Allen
Posey
House
Brown
Cassell
Pollard
2010-2011
S.O'Neal
J.O'Neal
D.West
A.Bradley
S.Erden
L.Harengody
Why are the Celtics holding out, who knows, but the Celtics need to do minor tweeking to this roster before it's too late.
-
Last season, Martin shot 44.1% from the field and 37.0% on free throws while averaging 4.3 rpg or 6.9 rebounds per 36 minutes. I'm just not convinced he is worth signing.
I think the best thing is to keep with the current roster and more or less force Doc to give Sullinger minutes by giving him no other options. If Ainge brought in Martin, I think his minutes would come at the expense of Sullinger and not Bass or Wilcox. If it becomes obvious that Sullinger has plateaued for the season and is just not going to improve on defense to a level the team is happy with, then you can bring in someone like Martin if you think he will upgrade the D.
-
The fact that a healthy K-Mart can't get any NBA team to take him, despite him practically begging for a roster spot, tells me that when a Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.bag with talent gets older and less talented, it isn't worth it for teams to deal with the Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.bag when they're not getting the talent anymore.
There are plenty of solid citizens who can be the Celtics 5th big and not cause any waves in the locker room, coaches room, or front office. Like Chris Wilcox, for example, someone who his teammates have grown very fond of in a short period of time.
The only reason I add K Mart is if I want to bring in some toughness. However, I think that we can get that toughness from Sully as he gets acclimated to the league, and one of the keys to the Cs' playoff success is getting Sully as an impact guy in the playoffs. Sullinger needs his minutes.
-
The fact that a healthy K-Mart can't get any NBA team to take him, despite him practically begging for a roster spot, tells me that when a ****bag with talent gets older and less talented, it isn't worth it for teams to deal with the ****bag when they're not getting the talent anymore.
There are plenty of solid citizens who can be the Celtics 5th big and not cause any waves in the locker room, coaches room, or front office. Like Chris Wilcox, for example, someone who his teammates have grown very fond of in a short period of time.
The only reason I add K Mart is if I want to bring in some toughness. However, I think that we can get that toughness from Sully as he gets acclimated to the league, and one of the keys to the Cs' playoff success is getting Sully as an impact guy in the playoffs. Sullinger needs his minutes.
Although i completely agree with these sentiments here TripleOT, to be fair to K-Mart i don't think anyone on the Clippers is enamored with Del Negro.
I think i heard just the other day they all held a closed door meeting over this very subject (the unhappines with Del Negro) so im a little unsure as to what i should beleive.
But i do agree that when a player gets older and has less upside all teams in the league are less willing to deal with the shenanigans that comes with some of the higher maintenance personalities.
-
Although i completely agree with these sentiments here TripleOT, to be fair to K-Mart i don't think anyone on the Clippers is enamored with Del Negro.
I think i heard just the other day they all held a closed door meeting over this very subject (the unhappines with Del Negro) so im a little unsure as to what i should beleive.
But i do agree that when a player gets older and has less upside all teams in the league are less willing to deal with the shenanigans that comes with some of the higher maintenance personalities.
How great would it be if DelNegro got fired and Phil Jackson hired to coach the Clippers this season?
Although I can't imagine Sterling ponying up to pay Jax, it would be the ultimate F.U. to the Lakers.
-
Although i completely agree with these sentiments here TripleOT, to be fair to K-Mart i don't think anyone on the Clippers is enamored with Del Negro.
I think i heard just the other day they all held a closed door meeting over this very subject (the unhappines with Del Negro) so im a little unsure as to what i should beleive.
But i do agree that when a player gets older and has less upside all teams in the league are less willing to deal with the shenanigans that comes with some of the higher maintenance personalities.
How great would it be if DelNegro got fired and Phil Jackson hired to coach the Clippers this season?
Although I can't imagine Sterling ponying up to pay Jax, it would be the ultimate F.U. to the Lakers.
Very true although it's Sterling we're talking about here.. And i don't wanna see any team from La La Land doing well.
Phil's whole schtick is better received on the West Coast for obvious reasons, and i like that they are loaded and underachieving. The fact they are holding these closed door player meetings tells me they are well aware of this. I just don't want them to hit their stride at the Celtics expense.
Although admittedley that is far down the road (cross your fingers) but i despise Paul now and Griffin and all his animated posturing just makes me yearn for someone to lay him out mid-air.
-
Although i completely agree with these sentiments here TripleOT, to be fair to K-Mart i don't think anyone on the Clippers is enamored with Del Negro.
I think i heard just the other day they all held a closed door meeting over this very subject (the unhappines with Del Negro) so im a little unsure as to what i should beleive.
But i do agree that when a player gets older and has less upside all teams in the league are less willing to deal with the shenanigans that comes with some of the higher maintenance personalities.
How great would it be if DelNegro got fired and Phil Jackson hired to coach the Clippers this season?
Although I can't imagine Sterling ponying up to pay Jax, it would be the ultimate F.U. to the Lakers.
Very true although it's Sterling we're talking about here.. And i don't wanna see any team from La La Land doing well.
Phil's whole schtick is better received on the West Coast for obvious reasons, and i like that they are loaded and underachieving. The fact they are holding these closed door player meetings tells me they are well aware of this. I just don't want them to hit their stride at the Celtics expense.
Although admittedley that is far down the road (cross your fingers) but i despise Paul now and Griffin and all his animated posturing just makes me yearn for someone to lay him out mid-air.
Do you realize how much the Lakers and their fans would hate it if the Clips under Jax won the title? It would be a great moment for Celtics fans. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
-
I see where your going. I do. But i hate EVERYTHING LA. The fact they get players to just land in their laps for the weather and lifestyle kills me. The surfer west coast bias kills me. I despise it all.
They are spoiled but will never acknowledge it. We over here actually have to put together Championship squads through good GMing, Good coaching, and tradition. We don't have weather and an entire media geared simply to the Celtics like they do in LA.
It's very much an unfair fight yet we're simply ahead still. That in itself is a small miracle.
-
Kenyon would be better than Collins unless we really need post defense, but not by much. Offensively both are disasters.
-
Personality issues aside, Kenyon was pretty awful last year by pretty much any metric.
There's a good chance he's just flat out cooked.
-
Last season, Martin shot 44.1% from the field and 37.0% on free throws while averaging 4.3 rpg or 6.9 rebounds per 36 minutes. I'm just not convinced he is worth signing.
I think the best thing is to keep with the current roster and more or less force Doc to give Sullinger minutes by giving him no other options. If Ainge brought in Martin, I think his minutes would come at the expense of Sullinger and not Bass or Wilcox. If it becomes obvious that Sullinger has plateaued for the season and is just not going to improve on defense to a level the team is happy with, then you can bring in someone like Martin if you think he will upgrade the D.
You summed up my biggest fear. Let's not give Doc too many options...Sully needs his minutes.
-
I'm not for signing KMart unless we make a trade and move Bass/Sully. I think another undersized big isn't really something we need at the moment. Unfortunately if we move Bass or Sully we'll probably get a big in return so we still wouldn't need KMart.
I want Jason Thompson, Paul Millsap, JJ Hickson or Anderson Varejao. I'll even take Luke Walton's corpse to get Varejao. It would take Green and another middle-to-large contract to make the money work but then we'd have to pursue a SF backup option after moving Green. We could try get C.J. Miles into the deal as well and swap a rookie for him. I'd prefer to move Melo and I imagine the Cavs would prefer him too after moving Varejao. They aren't exactly hurting at PF so I suspect they'll want Lee instead of Bass. That would be a deal breaker for me.
Varejao/Walton/Miles
for
Green/Bass/Melo
And at that point KMart won't be necessary.
-
I'm not for signing KMart unless we make a trade and move Bass/Sully. I think another undersized big isn't really something we need at the moment. Unfortunately if we move Bass or Sully we'll probably get a big in return so we still wouldn't need KMart.
I want Jason Thompson, Paul Millsap, JJ Hickson or Anderson Varejao.
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
-
I see where your going. I do. But i hate EVERYTHING LA. The fact they get players to just land in their laps for the weather and lifestyle kills me. The surfer west coast bias kills me. I despise it all.
They are spoiled but will never acknowledge it. We over here actually have to put together Championship squads through good GMing, Good coaching, and tradition. We don't have weather and an entire media geared simply to the Celtics like they do in LA.
It's very much an unfair fight yet we're simply ahead still. That in itself is a small miracle.
spoken with a punch like a true hooligan lol
-
This article is nonsense.
There's no way anyone can hate on K-Mart for disliking Vinny Del Negro.
-
I'm not for signing KMart unless we make a trade and move Bass/Sully. I think another undersized big isn't really something we need at the moment. Unfortunately if we move Bass or Sully we'll probably get a big in return so we still wouldn't need KMart.
I want Jason Thompson, Paul Millsap, JJ Hickson or Anderson Varejao.
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
Varejao isn't undersized for a center at 6'11'' and 250+
-
Kmart may still have some game left, but is such an officiating lighting rod I honestly don't think the celts can risk bringing him in.
And yes the nba officials are that bias that it has to weigh into Danny's decision... Nice legacy, David
-
I'm not for signing KMart unless we make a trade and move Bass/Sully. I think another undersized big isn't really something we need at the moment. Unfortunately if we move Bass or Sully we'll probably get a big in return so we still wouldn't need KMart.
I want Jason Thompson, Paul Millsap, JJ Hickson or Anderson Varejao.
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
Varejao isn't undersized for a center at 6'11'' and 250+
Some sources (the sort that tend to not update their numbers from when a player enters the league) have him listed at 6'10" and 230, or around Chris Wilcox-sized. Did he grow or is that just the hair?
-
I'm not for signing KMart unless we make a trade and move Bass/Sully. I think another undersized big isn't really something we need at the moment. Unfortunately if we move Bass or Sully we'll probably get a big in return so we still wouldn't need KMart.
I want Jason Thompson, Paul Millsap, JJ Hickson or Anderson Varejao.
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
Varejao isn't undersized for a center at 6'11'' and 250+
Trust me, it's the hair.
-
sure bring him in. It will complete the geriatic Team.
-
sure bring him in. It will complete the geriatic Team.
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=228579
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html
Apparently basketball reference has weighted average age by minutes.
http://www.thetwomangame.com/2011/03/senescence/
Analysis of champion teams in the past ten years by the same metric. A bit on the older side but not at all geriatric.
-
I have no issue with waiting to see if something better comes along.
There is not rush for his services at the moment.
-
I'm not for signing KMart unless we make a trade and move Bass/Sully. I think another undersized big isn't really something we need at the moment. Unfortunately if we move Bass or Sully we'll probably get a big in return so we still wouldn't need KMart.
I want Jason Thompson, Paul Millsap, JJ Hickson or Anderson Varejao.
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
Varejao isn't undersized for a center at 6'11'' and 250+
Trust me, it's the hair.
The hair makes him over 7 feet tall :)
-
I would be wary about his age and undersized. I like his game though and I think he would give us good toughness. However another undersized big who has no above the rim game (anymore for Kmart) doesnt appeal to me as much as other options would.
-
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
Millsap might be the same height/weight as Brandon Bass but he plays like a big instead of a wing. While competing for minutes Millsap is averaging 14/8 over 30 minutes. Compare that to Bass's 10/5 in 28 minutes with far less competition at his position.
Oh and Millsap is in a contract year which not only means he has a reason to play harder but it also means we might have some cap space when the season is over.
Varejao shouldn't even need a defense. Statistically he's the best front court player in the eastern conference this season. The only guys close are Noah and Bosh. That is reasonable company for a guy making 7.7M.
Thompson is probably out of reach for what we'd offer but he'd be a steal if we can land him.
Oh second though I don't want Hickson.
-
Last season, Martin shot 44.1% from the field and 37.0% on free throws while averaging 4.3 rpg or 6.9 rebounds per 36 minutes. I'm just not convinced he is worth signing.
This is the key with Martin. If he was the Kenyon Martin of 10 years ago, you sign him without a second thought and deal with anything that may arise. However, he just isn't an impact player anymore. He may not be as good as the guys you already have, and could then just be an extra headache with no real advantage.
It would be different if the C's really were desperate for help, but they really aren't. They need to continue improving with their team defense and rebounding, but there aren't many guys on the street who are going to come in and make a big difference with that right now...any more than the improvement of guys becoming more comfortable in the system will.
Yes, the C's may need to get an upgrade in the frontcourt if they want to really have a good shot at a championship, but that is not Kenyon Martin (nor is it Chris Andersen, or anyone else currently out there).
-
Paul Millsap is an undersized power forward who is listed at approximately the same height and weight as Brandon Bass. Anderson Varejao and JJ Hickson may be closer to what is considered as ideal size for a power forward, but both are currently functioning as undersized starting centers.
Millsap might be the same height/weight as Brandon Bass but he plays like a big instead of a wing. While competing for minutes Millsap is averaging 14/8 over 30 minutes. Compare that to Bass's 10/5 in 28 minutes with far less competition at his position.
Oh and Millsap is in a contract year which not only means he has a reason to play harder but it also means we might have some cap space when the season is over.
Varejao shouldn't even need a defense. Statistically he's the best front court player in the eastern conference this season. The only guys close are Noah and Bosh. That is reasonable company for a guy making 7.7M.
Thompson is probably out of reach for what we'd offer but he'd be a steal if we can land him.
Oh second though I don't want Hickson.
They both might be currently fuctioning as undersized centers, but man are they sure playing [dang] good basketball. AV more so than Hickson. As much as Ive always disliked AV, I would be more than happy to get him here as an undersized center, power forward, 6th man, or new mascot for all I care.
-
I find it funny that anyone would want Jason Thompson on this C's team. He makes Mark Blount look tough.
-
all this about kmart. i dont mind the celtics signing him since he would serve AT MOST as a back up to the celtics' backup big men.
how many minutes do you think he would average over the course or a season? how many "dnp coach's decision" would he rack up?
at best, he is a nice defensive big man who no longer can score or rebound with consistency.
if any believes he will in any way transform the celtics front court play they will be disappointed.
ainge must think that he can do better if he waits. let's see if he is right.
-
Chris Andersen is better in every way (other than shooting). If we're going after guys with questionable states of mind he should have been the first option, not KMart and Darko.
-
No. Just No. Maybe I'm just too old and hold grudges too long, but to me K-Mart will always be the jerk on the Nets during the Jason Kidd days who would cheap shot all and sundry and then laugh about it afterwards. I still hate him, I still hate Jason Kidd. Didn't we go to war with those guys for 2-3 years in a row in the playoffs? That can't be overlooked or forgotten.
And that's before we even address the fact that his game has gone of a cliff in the last few years and so now he's just a head case with very little game.
-
No. Just No. Maybe I'm just too old and hold grudges too long, but to me K-Mart will always be the jerk on the Nets during the Jason Kidd days who would cheap shot all and sundry and then laugh about it afterwards. I still hate him, I still hate Jason Kidd. Didn't we go to war with those guys for 2-3 years in a row in the playoffs? That can't be overlooked or forgotten.
And that's before we even address the fact that his game has gone of a cliff in the last few years and so now he's just a head case with very little game.
See, the attitude he plays with I actually think is the one positive for him, that this team really needs. If you bring him in, all the talk of Rondo having to be the enforcer goes away.
But that doesn't change the fact that he isn't a very good basketball player anymore.