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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondohondo on November 30, 2012, 08:44:12 AM

Title: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: rondohondo on November 30, 2012, 08:44:12 AM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
Title: Re: Max : "Rondo tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: wdleehi on November 30, 2012, 08:45:33 AM
Resign Scali the thug?
Title: Re: Max : "Rondo tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 30, 2012, 08:48:33 AM
Hard to argue with this one. Many threads I have replied to have answers that can fall under this category as well.

We havent had an enforcer and have been soft since Perk left.  Also Ive writen this many times, it looks like everyone is just going through the motions out there. No one except KG and sometimes Rondo, terry and wilcox some of the time are playing with any emotion, attitude, or intensity. Its painful to watch all our players run around like zombies out there. We need that attitude back, especially int he middle. Soft is almost an understatement.
Title: Re: Max : "Rondo tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: contramundum on November 30, 2012, 09:00:03 AM
Okay so Pierce, Bass, Terry and KG was also on the floor.  Who is the enforcer there if Rondo isn't?  Bass?  I just don't see how this specific incident ends any differently.  Rondo was closest to it and had the highest emotion, obviously.

On this, I blame Doc - before I realized that Wilcox was sick, I thought Doc was sending Collins to be a goon because of all the physical play.  I thought wrong I guess.  As Pop would say - We need to see a little of the nasty.  The coach needs to command hard fouls if necessary.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: esel1000 on November 30, 2012, 09:02:32 AM
agree with rondo... hes also one of our leading rebounders at 6'1... I mean come on haha... this is one of the reasons you need a guy like j-smoove
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Stizz44 on November 30, 2012, 09:02:38 AM
Indirect jab at Bass and Green! Two Celtics that have been with the team prior to this season that have been acting soft.


Danny needs to make that J.Smith deal happen.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: csfansince60s on November 30, 2012, 09:05:38 AM
Attention KMART shoppers!!!!
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: CelticG1 on November 30, 2012, 09:12:37 AM
We def should recruit some guys that are good at pushing and frowning.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Stizz44 on November 30, 2012, 09:23:27 AM
Still wondering why we didnt play Darko. Was he really that bad?

He seemed to be "OK" in preseason.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: nostar on November 30, 2012, 09:29:04 AM
WE HAD DARKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 30, 2012, 09:35:00 AM
Darko was that man,  he knew it and said stated  HE WOULD "DO whatever the Team asked of him " ... SO WHY wasn't he given a chance Doc????????????????????????????

RIVERS ??????????????? what is the deal.... WHY no DARKO ??

I think COmrade RIVERS is the SOFT person on the team. He doesn't point fingers and demand results. Lifes tuff, act tuff and act like the 80 million your employeer is sending matters.

Rivers could use a little CLint Eastwood in his life. He seems to have dropped off into some off never -never land of basketball.

All this Rondo mess is on DOC RIVERS ...for failing to play DARKO , failing to get tuff bigs on the team and playing some silly version of College small ball .

WYC and DAnny ...PLEASE GET Glen Rivers's MINDS RIGHT  ::)

I'm on Rondos side... Doc and Jeff Green should just go to camp and hold hands and sing peace songs.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 30, 2012, 09:48:46 AM
You can't play a bruiser for 48 minutes per game in case an altercation goes down once or twice a season.

I want the most talented guys out there as much as possible. Enforcers generally are not that talented.

And we had the best enforcer we could buy at that price in Darko. It's really too bad he never got a chance.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 30, 2012, 10:01:51 AM
You can't play a bruiser for 48 minutes per game in case an altercation goes down once or twice a season.

I want the most talented guys out there as much as possible. Enforcers generally are not that talented.

And we had the best enforcer we could buy at that price in Darko. It's really too bad he never got a chance.

My thoughts exactly. I was really hoping to see Darko in this role. Its unfortunate.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: edwardjkasche on November 30, 2012, 10:37:05 AM
It's gotta be Bass as The Enforcer. 

Green is too passive.  Wilcox is too nice.  KG and Pierce are too old and too important to the team night-in, night-out.  Terry and Barbosa are too small.  Sully is too young and already gets fouls for breathing on guys.  He'd get suspended for the season if he shoved a guy.  Collins used to tussle a bit, but he's glued to the pine most nights.

Lee could certainly stand to be more aggressive, but I don't think he's the enforcer type. 

I would LOVE to see Pierce and KG gets in guys' faces to support their teammates and tussle a bit (tech worthy, not suspension worthy), but they've been playing soft all year.  They both look two steps slower than last year.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: edwardjkasche on November 30, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
Ainge needs to have Bass watch the McHale take down of Rambis over and over and over and over...

That's how you protect the rim.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 10:40:07 AM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: dark_lord on November 30, 2012, 10:40:46 AM
Attention KMART shoppers!!!!

dark_lord approves this msg
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: apc on November 30, 2012, 10:56:08 AM

I think COmrade RIVERS is the SOFT person on the team.
TP for that!
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 30, 2012, 11:04:02 AM
This is on Doc.

We had an enforcer in Darko and he didnt play him, to the point that he quit on the team.

"I'll do whatever it takes, whatever I need to do to help this team," So now, if I have to go kill someone on the court, I'll kill someone on the court."

That's Darko's mentality coming in. Took less money to be with us and never even sniffed the floor.

Doc and his small ball... che.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: scaryjerry on November 30, 2012, 11:06:07 AM
Remember when we had perk and everyone gave kg all the credit and how much tougher kg acted then. Lol.....fake tough
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 11:07:30 AM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: BballTim on November 30, 2012, 11:08:42 AM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.

  It's not a case of anyone telling him to, it's a case of his stepping into a vacuum.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Stizz44 on November 30, 2012, 11:09:17 AM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.


its part of basketball. every team has one.

Heat-----Haslam
Lakers---Artest
OKC------Perkins
Grizzles-Randolph
Pacers---West/Granger
Bucks----Gooden
Hawks----J.Smith
Spurs----S.Jackson
Nuggest--A.Miller

Teams need a player that plays slightly to the edge. Everyone being "Mr. Clean" on the basketball court is not going to win a championship.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: scaryjerry on November 30, 2012, 11:10:14 AM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 11:11:01 AM
Remember when we had perk and everyone gave kg all the credit and how much tougher kg acted then. Lol.....fake tough

Remember how Perk acted fake tough when he was on the Celtics playing with KG. Then when he went to the Thunder and started to get embarrassed defensively?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 11:12:16 AM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor

Correction, I'm Paul Pierce's biggest fan

Didn't know obvious logic that Chris Paul is better than Rondo means I'm his biggest fan
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 30, 2012, 11:12:32 AM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.

No one. And that's the sad part. No one from this lineup intimidates anyone. Teams are punking and out muscling us because we are soft and no one in the team is being tough enough to tell other teams that it ain't gonna be easy.

Rondo stepped up because everyone is being soft, he had to send a message to his teammates that they're being soft.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: scaryjerry on November 30, 2012, 11:16:46 AM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor


Correction, I'm Paul Pierce's biggest fan
Didn't know obvious logic that Chris Paul is better than Rondo means I'm his biggest fan

Hes certainly better than Paul pierce...but rondo? Sorry not seeing it anymore...rondo would be averaging 15 assists with that clippers roster....besides the point, at least rondo confronted a bigger man face to face sticking up for his guy rather then a cheapshot to the family jewels like the coward Chris paul
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 11:24:46 AM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor


Correction, I'm Paul Pierce's biggest fan
Didn't know obvious logic that Chris Paul is better than Rondo means I'm his biggest fan

Hes certainly better than Paul pierce...but rondo? Sorry not seeing it anymore...rondo would be averaging 15 assists with that clippers roster....besides the point, at least rondo confronted a bigger man face to face sticking up for his guy rather then a cheapshot to the family jewels like the coward Chris paul

Chris Paul always fights/scuffles guys twice his size. Whats games are you watching??

Rondo is just simply an overhyped set up man. Rondo is better than Paul? The same guy who struggles to make two 17ft jumpshots in a game? The same guy whos team has a winning record whenever he doesn't play? The same guy who can't make a simple layup cause he's scared to go to the foul line?

Oh yeah that guy haha
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: CFAN38 on November 30, 2012, 11:41:27 AM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team. No that its super ocmparable but years ago in a mens league i had a situation where one year we where 500%, I up graded my roster particularly at PF brought in a ringer (6'3 200lb) finesse player  to replace a guy who was nothing more then a bull(6'1 230) with little skill. We start the year and are getting killed the guy who runs the league pulls me aside and says " you screwed up help the teams where scared of your PF last year, your team lost its edge in the toughness department".

My stupid story just is my way of pointing out that teams prob dont look at the Cs as a tough team and have no fear of them. Toughness doesn't mean the other teams think you will fight with them or do anything stupid. But alot guys sub-conscientiously play down when intimidated.

Who on the Cs would you really consider tough?     
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 11:49:59 AM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team.
You know who "tough guys" are? Those who rally the team, mount a comeback, and make sure the other is never comfortable until the final horn. The Celtics used to be one of the "toughest" teams in this respect for years. Not so much this season.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Fafnir on November 30, 2012, 11:53:19 AM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team.
You know who "tough guys" are? Those who rally the team, mount a comeback, and make sure the other is never comfortable until the final horn. The Celtics used to be one of the "toughest" teams in this respect for years. Not so much this season.
Yeah this is the "soft" and "tough" that Doc always talks about.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Ogaju on November 30, 2012, 11:54:06 AM
Darko was that man,  he knew it and said stated  HE WOULD "DO whatever the Team asked of him " ... SO WHY wasn't he given a chance Doc????????????????????????????

RIVERS ??????????????? what is the deal.... WHY no DARKO ??

I think COmrade RIVERS is the SOFT person on the team. He doesn't point fingers and demand results. Lifes tuff, act tuff and act like the 80 million your employeer is sending matters.

Rivers could use a little CLint Eastwood in his life. He seems to have dropped off into some off never -never land of basketball.

All this Rondo mess is on DOC RIVERS ...for failing to play DARKO , failing to get tuff bigs on the team and playing some silly version of College small ball .

WYC and DAnny ...PLEASE GET Glen Rivers's MINDS RIGHT  ::)

I'm on Rondos side... Doc and Jeff Green should just go to camp and hold hands and sing peace songs.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: BballTim on November 30, 2012, 11:54:30 AM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor


Correction, I'm Paul Pierce's biggest fan
Didn't know obvious logic that Chris Paul is better than Rondo means I'm his biggest fan

Hes certainly better than Paul pierce...but rondo? Sorry not seeing it anymore...rondo would be averaging 15 assists with that clippers roster....besides the point, at least rondo confronted a bigger man face to face sticking up for his guy rather then a cheapshot to the family jewels like the coward Chris paul

Chris Paul always fights/scuffles guys twice his size. Whats games are you watching??

Rondo is just simply an overhyped set up man. Rondo is better than Paul? The same guy who struggles to make two 17ft jumpshots in a game? The same guy whos team has a winning record whenever he doesn't play? The same guy who can't make a simple layup cause he's scared to go to the foul line?

Oh yeah that guy haha

  Would that be the same Rondo that's made about 150 more layups than Chris Paul over the last 3 seasons?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Ogaju on November 30, 2012, 11:56:15 AM
Darko was that man,  he knew it and said stated  HE WOULD "DO whatever the Team asked of him " ... SO WHY wasn't he given a chance Doc????????????????????????????

RIVERS ??????????????? what is the deal.... WHY no DARKO ??

I think COmrade RIVERS is the SOFT person on the team. He doesn't point fingers and demand results. Lifes tuff, act tuff and act like the 80 million your employeer is sending matters.

Rivers could use a little CLint Eastwood in his life. He seems to have dropped off into some off never -never land of basketball.

All this Rondo mess is on DOC RIVERS ...for failing to play DARKO , failing to get tuff bigs on the team and playing some silly version of College small ball .

WYC and DAnny ...PLEASE GET Glen Rivers's MINDS RIGHT  ::)

I'm on Rondos side... Doc and Jeff Green should just go to camp and hold hands and sing peace songs.

Be careful because I was lambasted early in the season for suggesting that Doc is the problem and for posting that we should have played DARKO
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Ogaju on November 30, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team. No that its super ocmparable but years ago in a mens league i had a situation where one year we where 500%, I up graded my roster particularly at PF brought in a ringer (6'3 200lb) finesse player  to replace a guy who was nothing more then a bull(6'1 230) with little skill. We start the year and are getting killed the guy who runs the league pulls me aside and says " you screwed up help the teams where scared of your PF last year, your team lost its edge in the toughness department".

My stupid story just is my way of pointing out that teams prob dont look at the Cs as a tough team and have no fear of them. Toughness doesn't mean the other teams think you will fight with them or do anything stupid. But alot guys sub-conscientiously play down when intimidated.

Who on the Cs would you really consider tough?   

TP   I wish I could find my post on this issue. Yep Celtics are soft. no enforcer, and you will NOT win without one.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: CFAN38 on November 30, 2012, 12:04:21 PM
just got thinking tough guys on the C is recent years

I started making a list and basically came to the conclusion that the Cs last championship team was just alot tougher then this team.

Ray   =  AB
Perk  > Bass
TA    > Terry
Posey > Green
Brown > Sully
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 12:15:16 PM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor


Correction, I'm Paul Pierce's biggest fan
Didn't know obvious logic that Chris Paul is better than Rondo means I'm his biggest fan

Hes certainly better than Paul pierce...but rondo? Sorry not seeing it anymore...rondo would be averaging 15 assists with that clippers roster....besides the point, at least rondo confronted a bigger man face to face sticking up for his guy rather then a cheapshot to the family jewels like the coward Chris paul

Chris Paul always fights/scuffles guys twice his size. Whats games are you watching??

Rondo is just simply an overhyped set up man. Rondo is better than Paul? The same guy who struggles to make two 17ft jumpshots in a game? The same guy whos team has a winning record whenever he doesn't play? The same guy who can't make a simple layup cause he's scared to go to the foul line?

Oh yeah that guy haha

  Would that be the same Rondo that's made about 150 more layups than Chris Paul over the last 3 seasons?

Would that be the same Rondo that rarely attempts a shot within the last 5 minutes? You know, the layups that count?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 30, 2012, 12:23:47 PM
We feel your pain Rondo...we see what your dealing with ...

maybe Danny will see it too and get a player and SYSTEM in place that does away with small silly ball and goes back to playing NBA professional ball.

Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Fafnir on November 30, 2012, 12:25:55 PM
We feel your pain Rondo...we see what your dealing with ...

maybe Danny will see it too and get a player and SYSTEM in place that does away with small silly ball and goes back to playing NBA professional ball.
So the Heat, Celtics, and Knicks all don't play NBA basketball?

The idea that we aren't a real NBA team because we don't have backup C worth playing is a strange one to me.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: KGs Knee on November 30, 2012, 12:43:53 PM
We feel your pain Rondo...we see what your dealing with ...

maybe Danny will see it too and get a player and SYSTEM in place that does away with small silly ball and goes back to playing NBA professional ball.
So the Heat, Celtics, and Knicks all don't play NBA basketball?

The idea that we aren't a real NBA team because we don't have backup C worth playing is a strange one to me.

I'd say, the fact we don't have a starting PF, nor a transcendent SF (who isn't past his prime) capable of also playing PF, nor a starting C (who isn't past his prime, and only capable of playing limited minutes during the regular season) is why were are not a "real NBA team".

Trying to play small ball without the proper pieces is foolish.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: MBunge on November 30, 2012, 12:44:57 PM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team.
You know who "tough guys" are? Those who rally the team, mount a comeback, and make sure the other is never comfortable until the final horn. The Celtics used to be one of the "toughest" teams in this respect for years. Not so much this season.

And since this is a team mostly made up of veterans, none of whom (not even Jeff Green) ever really had reputations of being "soft" in the past...why are they playing that way now?

Mike
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 12:55:43 PM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team.
You know who "tough guys" are? Those who rally the team, mount a comeback, and make sure the other is never comfortable until the final horn. The Celtics used to be one of the "toughest" teams in this respect for years. Not so much this season.

And since this is a team mostly made up of veterans, none of whom (not even Jeff Green) ever really had reputations of being "soft" in the past...why are they playing that way now?
Beats me. Age? Fatigue? Motivation?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: rondohondo on November 30, 2012, 01:09:28 PM
hmmm after thinking about it I think I came up with the answer.

Eric Williams can be our enforcer , get him out of retirement Danny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYDCAZGwzg
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 30, 2012, 01:20:34 PM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team.
You know who "tough guys" are? Those who rally the team, mount a comeback, and make sure the other is never comfortable until the final horn. The Celtics used to be one of the "toughest" teams in this respect for years. Not so much this season.

And since this is a team mostly made up of veterans, none of whom (not even Jeff Green) ever really had reputations of being "soft" in the past...why are they playing that way now?

Mike

Doc being a nannie , instead of a coach on fire.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ianboyextreme on November 30, 2012, 01:24:16 PM
agree with rondo... hes also one of our leading rebounders at 6'1... I mean come on haha... this is one of the reasons you need a guy like j-smoove
We want an enforcer so we should get J Smoove? Haha you guys are funny. He would only make the problem substantially worse.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ScoobyDoo on November 30, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
Rondo is 100% absolutely correct is his assessment.

He is, by far and without any debate, the single, toughest guy on our team. KG and Pierce are both great athletes who are athletically tough guys with great durability but they are not "tough guys", they are finesse guys - not a knock on them, just the truth.

The reason the 08 and 2010 and 2012 teams were so good is because of the right mix of finesse and tough enforcer type players.

2008:
Ray, Pierce and KG - skill and finesse
TAllen, Rondo, Perkins, Powe, Posey and PJ - all "tough guys"

2010:
Perkins, Rasheed, Rondo, TAllen, Baby, Sheldon Williams
Ray, Pierce and KG for finesse

2012:
Keyon Dooling, Pietrus, Stiemsma, Hollins, Rollins, Bradley
KG, Pierce and Ray for finesse.

It's a pretty simple formula. Skill and talent drive the team but you absolutely MUST have guys that are lunch pale, dirty work guys and that YES, are very willing to throw down any time, if and when necessary. Not that you may ever have to, but as another poster stated, when you know Perkins, Shaq, TAllen, Posey type of players are on the other side and that you will likely play a price the next time down the court, it's just in the back of your mind. It's also always in the back of your mind when you get in the paint or think about take a high flyer to the rim...

It's pretty basic 101 basketball chemistry.

So again, Rondo is the toughest guy currently on our team, by a mile.

It's about like this

1. Rondo
2. Bradley (yes, Bradley) he's a Tony Allen type
3. Jared Sullinger 0he needs to get stronger - but he has it in him, you can see it.
4. Brandon Bass, KG and Pierce are all on a similar level

It falls off "dramatically" from there. Melo might have some in him, haven't seen enough yet.

It's one of the main reasons I wanted us to draft Ezeli this year - While Melo's ceiling might be higher, I thought Ezeli woulod bring some immediate toughness into the paint along side KG - a more athletic Perkins.

I've also wanted Reggie Evans on the team pretty much ever since Powe left.

I also thought Aaron Gray was an obvious target for his size and weight and was very excited about seeing Darko with KG for the same reason.

A lot of it is just about size and weight to be able to bang and lay bodies on guys, that's why Shaq was so effective even at an older age. But there's also the edgy guys you MUST have a few of - guys like Reggie Evans, Perkins, TAllen, Bradley.

Suprisingly, Bradley will help this team tremendously in the toughness department when he comes back. His "dirty nose" approach to the game will rub off on the team.     
     
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: scaryjerry on November 30, 2012, 02:14:38 PM
Rondo sounds a bit narcissistic IMO

He needs to stop acting like he's the team's savior. Needs to realize he's lucky because if Humphries had a mean streak, he would destroy him

Says Chris Paul's biggest fan..the biggest cheap shot artist in the league.

Rondo isn't saying a thing about being a savior hes simply stating facts Mr rondo detractor


Correction, I'm Paul Pierce's biggest fan
Didn't know obvious logic that Chris Paul is better than Rondo means I'm his biggest fan

Hes certainly better than Paul pierce...but rondo? Sorry not seeing it anymore...rondo would be averaging 15 assists with that clippers roster....besides the point, at least rondo confronted a bigger man face to face sticking up for his guy rather then a cheapshot to the family jewels like the coward Chris paul

Chris Paul always fights/scuffles guys twice his size. Whats games are you watching??

Rondo is just simply an overhyped set up man. Rondo is better than Paul? The same guy who struggles t
o make two 17ft jumpshots in a game? The same guy whos team has a winning record whenever he doesn't play? The same guy who can't make a simple layup cause he's scared to go to the foul line?

Oh yeah that guy haha
"

Exactly....I knew id get the rondo detractor in you out. We have a winning record without kg as well.....overhyped?
I also love how scuffling with bigger guys makes Chris Paul a leader and rondo narcissistic and immature...who's overhyped again? 9 assists per game with that roster? Lol @ the"best point guard".... how is rondo struggling to shoot when hes shooting over 50% and taking mostly jumpers?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ScoobyDoo on November 30, 2012, 02:20:45 PM
For me, Rondo is far and away the very best "point guard" in the league. He does more things at a higher level than any other point.

Play maker
Rebounds
Defends
Scores - he can score a lot more any time he feels like it
Best quarterback
Enforcer :)

Other points may score more, but I don't think any of them make their teams better like Rondo does.

Our problem isn't Rondo, is muscle and size in the paint. 
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 30, 2012, 02:24:02 PM
I was confused by that whole incident.  That foul wasn't really even that hard.  Humphries didn't even get called for a flagrant.  KG landed on his backside hard, but I think it had more to do with how he fell than how hard the foul was.

At the time I was completely confused by Rondo's reaction.  I know he might have been frustrated, because we were getting spanked by the Nets, but not enough to randomly pick a fight.  It almost felt like he made a conscious decision to pick a fight with a larger player, show that he's tough and tell this soft team to get a backbone... killing his own record for the sake of setting an example for his teammates of being aggressive and "chippy".  Kinda like how a coach intentionally gets himself ejected to inject some life into his squad. 

I figured that was nonsense, though... MAJOR reach that he intentionally got himself suspended to prove a point.  MAJOR reach.  But these comments that he "is tired of being the enforcer" do add a little credibility to that concept... that he picked a fight on purpose, killed his record and got himself ejected to prove a point. 

 
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 30, 2012, 02:26:55 PM
For me, Rondo is far and away the very best "point guard" in the league. He does more things at a higher level than any other point.

Play maker
Rebounds
Defends
Scores - he can score a lot more any time he feels like it
Best quarterback
Enforcer :)

Other points may score more, but I don't think any of them make their teams better like Rondo does.

Our problem isn't Rondo, is muscle and size in the paint.

Chris Paul is better than him at most of that stuff... but Rondo is definitely a top 5 point guard and this year (so far, at least) he's actually statistically the #1 point guard.  It's early, though... time will tell if Chris Paul regains the #1 statistical spot that he consistently owns (aside from that one "MVP" year by Rose)

Edit:  My bad... with Rondo's last game, Chris Paul is already back on top statistically.  EFF of 23.3 while Rondo dropped down to 22.9.  Rondo's hot start had him at top for a while, though.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: scaryjerry on November 30, 2012, 02:27:46 PM
I was confused by that whole incident.  That foul wasn't really even that hard.  Humphries didn't even get called for a flagrant.  KG landed on his backside hard, but I think it had more to do with how he fell than how hard the foul was.

At the time I was completely confused by Rondo's reaction.  I know he might have been frustrated, because we were getting spanked by the Nets, but not enough to randomly pick a fight.  It almost felt like he made a conscious decision to pick a fight with a larger player, show that he's tough and tell this soft team to get a backbone... killing his own record for the sake of setting an example for his teammates of being aggressive and "chippy".  Kinda like how a coach intentionally gets himself ejected to inject some life into his squad. 

I figured that was nonsense, though... MAJOR reach that he intentionally got himself suspended to prove a point.  MAJOR reach.  But these comments that he "is tired of being the enforcer" do add a little credibility to that concept... that he picked a fight on purpose, killed his record and got himself ejected to prove a point. 

 

I agree with your theories I don't think its a major reach at all..tp
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: scaryjerry on November 30, 2012, 02:30:16 PM
For me, Rondo is far and away the very best "point guard" in the league. He does more things at a higher level than any other point.

Play maker
Rebounds
Defends
Scores - he can score a lot more any time he feels like it
Best quarterback
Enforcer :)

Other points may score more, but I don't think any of them make their teams better like Rondo does.

Our problem isn't Rondo, is muscle and size in the paint.

Chris Paul is better than him at most of that stuff... but Rondo is definitely a top 5 point guard and this year (so far, at least) he's actually statistically the #1 point guard.  It's early, though... time will tell if Chris Paul regains the #1 statistical spot that he consistently owns (aside from that one "MVP" year by Rose)

Edit:  My bad... with Rondo's last game, Chris Paul is already back on top statistically.  EFF of 23.3 while Rondo dropped down to 22.9.  Rondo's hot start had him at top for a while, though.
So with his last game he sacrificed that crap too

Fair enough...at least your objective? We will also see who's better in the playoffs  ;)
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 02:38:44 PM
I do think there is something to be said for having  "tough guys" on a team.
You know who "tough guys" are? Those who rally the team, mount a comeback, and make sure the other is never comfortable until the final horn. The Celtics used to be one of the "toughest" teams in this respect for years. Not so much this season.

And since this is a team mostly made up of veterans, none of whom (not even Jeff Green) ever really had reputations of being "soft" in the past...why are they playing that way now?

Mike

Doc being a nannie , instead of a coach on fire.

Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court

Doc reminds me alot of Eric Spoelstra. Has the skill as a coach, but has been blessed with an all star team. Has loat of talent on his team, but doesn't know to adjust in important situations. Overwhelming talent on Doc and Eric's teams hides their deficiencies as a coach
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: BballTim on November 30, 2012, 02:40:12 PM
For me, Rondo is far and away the very best "point guard" in the league. He does more things at a higher level than any other point.

Play maker
Rebounds
Defends
Scores - he can score a lot more any time he feels like it
Best quarterback
Enforcer :)

Other points may score more, but I don't think any of them make their teams better like Rondo does.

Our problem isn't Rondo, is muscle and size in the paint.

Chris Paul is better than him at most of that stuff...

  Better scorer, comparable defender (maybe), worse at the rest.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 02:42:29 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Fafnir on November 30, 2012, 02:43:05 PM
We feel your pain Rondo...we see what your dealing with ...

maybe Danny will see it too and get a player and SYSTEM in place that does away with small silly ball and goes back to playing NBA professional ball.
So the Heat, Celtics, and Knicks all don't play NBA basketball?

The idea that we aren't a real NBA team because we don't have backup C worth playing is a strange one to me.

I'd say, the fact we don't have a starting PF, nor a transcendent SF (who isn't past his prime) capable of also playing PF, nor a starting C (who isn't past his prime, and only capable of playing limited minutes during the regular season) is why were are not a "real NBA team".

Trying to play small ball without the proper pieces is foolish.
So we should play some scrub guy because he's big? Because that what Jason Collins is, he's a 7 foot scrub who has one skill physical post defense.

Go look around its not like the other veteran's minimum C options are better either.

Playing bad players because you feel you need size is foolish. We're getting beat in the P&R because of our perimeter defense and other than KG our bigs aren't fast enough/long enough to compensate for that.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 02:48:05 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 03:03:42 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Bankshot on November 30, 2012, 03:06:14 PM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.

Exactly.  Also, it looked to me like no one else had a chance to respond before Rondo did, as Rondo responded very quickly.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 03:11:24 PM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.

Exactly.  Also, it looked to me like no one else had a chance to respond before Rondo did, as Rondo responded very quickly.
This. Also, there are better ways to respond without getting tossed. It doesn't have to happen 5 seconds after the hard foul.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: LooseCannon on November 30, 2012, 03:18:01 PM
This. Also, there are better ways to respond without getting tossed. It doesn't have to happen 5 seconds after the hard foul.

When's the best time, the next moment when Humphries is in the air?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 03:22:30 PM
This. Also, there are better ways to respond without getting tossed. It doesn't have to happen 5 seconds after the hard foul.

When's the best time, the next moment when Humphries is in the air?
When you can actually give him a hard foul in game situation. But then again, if you want to solidify the punk reputation you're getting around the league, you should try to deck him into the crowd right away. That will certainly help you in the future.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 03:22:44 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 03:25:11 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
You think holding the locker room of a 30-win team together is not a pressure situation?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: mrpoundforpound on November 30, 2012, 03:27:37 PM
doc is an overrated coach. celtics need to fire him and get someone that can actually utilzie all of the talent we have on the team.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ScottHow on November 30, 2012, 03:30:48 PM
Now that KG is older, it does seem Rondo is the only one that plays with an edge. Pierce seems to get it when he goes up against a Lebron, Carmelo, or Artest, but not night in night out.

We certainly could use someone taller than 6'1 that has the personality of Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: KCattheStripe on November 30, 2012, 03:34:43 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on November 30, 2012, 03:57:03 PM
Attention KMART shoppers!!!!

Hahaha love it
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: MBunge on November 30, 2012, 03:57:24 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

He's also led two teams into historically long losing streaks.

Can we all just agree that when the team plays like this, NO ONE gets a pass.  Not Ainge.  Not the players.  Not Doc.

Mike
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: crownsy on November 30, 2012, 04:17:40 PM
doc is an overrated coach. celtics need to fire him and get someone that can actually utilzie all of the talent we have on the team.

Do tell, who is this mythical coach who is currently available? that chipmonk Stan Van Gundy?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 04:19:11 PM
Can we all just agree that when the team plays like this, NO ONE gets a pass.  Not Ainge.  Not the players.  Not Doc.
Sure. But in the grand scheme of blame assignment, players > Doc > Ainge.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: MBunge on November 30, 2012, 04:48:18 PM
Can we all just agree that when the team plays like this, NO ONE gets a pass.  Not Ainge.  Not the players.  Not Doc.
Sure. But in the grand scheme of blame assignment, players > Doc > Ainge.

1.  If the players are first, then Ainge has to be second.

2.  A very good argument for putting Doc first is that a lot of the problems we're seeing this season are just extensions of problems in the past.  Take giving up offensive boards while not getting any themselves.  That was a consistent issue last year.  I didn't see any evidence of Doc doing something to try and address it then and don't see any now.

Mike
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: guava_wrench on November 30, 2012, 04:58:47 PM
Another case of an person blaming others instead of accepting that what they did was stupid.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: BballTim on November 30, 2012, 04:59:29 PM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

Completely agree with Rondo , Danny needs to get a real enforcer in here quick .
And who told him he has to "play the enforcer"? This is getting ridiculous.

Exactly.  Also, it looked to me like no one else had a chance to respond before Rondo did, as Rondo responded very quickly.

  You were expecting one of the other players on the court to confront Humphries?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: mctyson on November 30, 2012, 05:00:09 PM
Cedric Maxwell was on weei yesterday and said Rondo told him that he is getting tired of having to be the enforcer for the C's. He said Rondo told him " I'm 6'1 , why am I the one who has to play the enforcer role for this team?"

He won't be when ABsolute Zero comes back.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ScoobyDoo on November 30, 2012, 05:10:34 PM
TP mctyson. Avery is the second toughest guy on our team after Rondo. The kid has an edge and he's physically dominant.

As for the best point guard in the league argument? For me, I'll take Rondo every day of the week and twice on Sundays, thank you very much.

I want the guy who nearly averages a triple double in a seven game playoff series. I want the guy who can't shoot but comes out and drops 44 when it matters most.

I want the guy who's driven the team to two finals appearances in five years and one game away from making it three trips in five.

Some of the stuff Rondo has accomplished in the playoffs, when it matters most, have only been accomplished by guys with names like Wilt, Oscar, Magic and Jordan.

It's just an opinion, but I think Rondo is highly underrated. The most dominant players shine brightest in the biggest moments.

Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 30, 2012, 05:16:10 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on November 30, 2012, 05:23:49 PM
This may be a silly question but didn't we bring in Collins for this exact reason? He needs to take a long look in the mirror of the jersey he has on. Take it off cruise control buddy.. No discernable skills besides settng screens and post defense. The least he could do is make his six fouls count. And count HARD.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: blink on November 30, 2012, 05:35:37 PM
This is such an over-reaction.  Right now, it is the players that aren't getting the job done.  It is mainly on D, and it mainly comes down to learning the def rotations, giving more effort, and playing smart.

Doc can motivate til the cows come home, but in the end it is on the players.  I suggest we not fire Doc.  Sheesh he is one of the top 5 coaches in the nba.

doc is an overrated coach. celtics need to fire him and get someone that can actually utilzie all of the talent we have on the team.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: moiso on November 30, 2012, 05:43:01 PM
I was confused by that whole incident.  That foul wasn't really even that hard.  Humphries didn't even get called for a flagrant.  KG landed on his backside hard, but I think it had more to do with how he fell than how hard the foul was.

At the time I was completely confused by Rondo's reaction.  I know he might have been frustrated, because we were getting spanked by the Nets, but not enough to randomly pick a fight.  It almost felt like he made a conscious decision to pick a fight with a larger player, show that he's tough and tell this soft team to get a backbone... killing his own record for the sake of setting an example for his teammates of being aggressive and "chippy".  Kinda like how a coach intentionally gets himself ejected to inject some life into his squad. 

I figured that was nonsense, though... MAJOR reach that he intentionally got himself suspended to prove a point.  MAJOR reach.  But these comments that he "is tired of being the enforcer" do add a little credibility to that concept... that he picked a fight on purpose, killed his record and got himself ejected to prove a point. 

 
I don't even think it was Rondo trying to be a tough guy.  I think it was Rondo being frustrated that the team was playing poorly and nobody was hitting shots from his passes.  If the Celts were winning and Rondo was playing well I doubt that would have happened.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 30, 2012, 05:53:39 PM
This may be a silly question but didn't we bring in Collins for this exact reason? He needs to take a long look in the mirror of the jersey he has on. Take it off cruise control buddy.. No discernable skills besides settng screens and post defense. The least he could do is make his six fouls count. And count HARD.

Yea Collins, do that from the BENCH!!! I guess Darko should have killed from the bench too.

I like Doc but he makes mistakes too. One big mistake I think he makes, he won't play players unless they perform well in PRACTICE (he has said so many times). I think he fails to realize that there are a lot of people who 1)don't go full out in practice (don't like it really) 2) perform when the lights are on 3) of course they aren't going to play well against KG all the time

This to me, is the reason he never played Darko. Doc said that after Darko got the news about his mother (or was it gma?) that his attitude changed and he wasn't really engaged anymore. MAYBE Doc should have put him in actual games where he wouldn't have much time to think... he could have at least knocked ppl down hard/gave MAN fouls!

You never know what a guy can do in a game until you give him a chance!

Like last season, Doc would never play Moore b/c as Doc said he never had an opportunity to see the rookies in practice so that's why he didn't trust them (in other words)! When Moore found his rhythm he started shooting well and running the offense but Doc still refused to let him play more than garbage minutes. Now this off-season they didn't want to give Moore up (because they knew he was a good role player) but were forced to in order to get Lee.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 30, 2012, 06:14:48 PM
I definitely think doc is extremely overrated. Decent coach at best.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: xmuscularghandix on November 30, 2012, 06:24:01 PM
Brandon Bass is really the guy who should be doing this... he's very good at hard fouling guys on breakaways so they don't get easy layups (he's also good at not ACTUALLY injuring people), but this really just seems like another thing that disappoints me about him.

Bass is big and strong but really is only good at shooting jump shots, he's not an intelligent offensive player, he has ZERO post game, he's often late on rotations... and when he is late on those rotations he doesn't ever get in there to drill a guy and send a message.

I really enjoy comparing this team (including Avery Bradley) makeup-wise to the Bad Boy Pistons teams. Rondo-Isiah Bradley-Dumars Pierce-Aguirre Garnett-Laimbeer... the only this is that Rick Mahorn/James Edwards guy who can be a big body willing to hand out hard fouls.

C'MON Big Bass!

The other problem could be KG. While KG is a great team defender and one of the greatest defensive talkers in the NBA... he no longer is the individual defender or shot blocker he was earlier in his career. I'd love to see KG start dishing out a few more fouls... 2.1 per game in 30 minutes? He can afford a few more IMO



Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on November 30, 2012, 06:49:09 PM
This may be a silly question but didn't we bring in Collins for this exact reason? He needs to take a long look in the mirror of the jersey he has on. Take it off cruise control buddy.. No discernable skills besides settng screens and post defense. The least he could do is make his six fouls count. And count HARD.

Yea Collins, do that from the BENCH!!! I guess Darko should have killed from the bench too.

I like Doc but he makes mistakes too. One big mistake I think he makes, he won't play players unless they perform well in PRACTICE (he has said so many times). I think he fails to realize that there are a lot of people who 1)don't go full out in practice (don't like it really) 2) perform when the lights are on 3) of course they aren't going to play well against KG all the time

This to me, is the reason he never played Darko. Doc said that after Darko got the news about his mother (or was it gma?) that his attitude changed and he wasn't really engaged anymore. MAYBE Doc should have put him in actual games where he wouldn't have much time to think... he could have at least knocked ppl down hard/gave MAN fouls!

You never know what a guy can do in a game until you give him a chance!

Like last season, Doc would never play Moore b/c as Doc said he never had an opportunity to see the rookies in practice so that's why he didn't trust them (in other words)! When Moore found his rhythm he started shooting well and running the offense but Doc still refused to let him play more than garbage minutes. Now this off-season they didn't want to give Moore up (because they knew he was a good role player) but were forced to in order to get Lee.



Really interesting point you make here, TP. From my point of view collins saw far more minutes last game than he deserved and i didn't see one ounce of enforcer or nastiness. I saw a guy going through the motions. And not too effectively at that.

I agree with muscularghandi that most of this role should fall on Bass's shoulders but if Collins gets those minutes i fully expect him to pick up any slack in this department, and i saw NOTHING.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 30, 2012, 06:56:56 PM
This may be a silly question but didn't we bring in Collins for this exact reason? He needs to take a long look in the mirror of the jersey he has on. Take it off cruise control buddy.. No discernable skills besides settng screens and post defense. The least he could do is make his six fouls count. And count HARD.

Yea Collins, do that from the BENCH!!! I guess Darko should have killed from the bench too.

I like Doc but he makes mistakes too. One big mistake I think he makes, he won't play players unless they perform well in PRACTICE (he has said so many times). I think he fails to realize that there are a lot of people who 1)don't go full out in practice (don't like it really) 2) perform when the lights are on 3) of course they aren't going to play well against KG all the time

This to me, is the reason he never played Darko. Doc said that after Darko got the news about his mother (or was it gma?) that his attitude changed and he wasn't really engaged anymore. MAYBE Doc should have put him in actual games where he wouldn't have much time to think... he could have at least knocked ppl down hard/gave MAN fouls!

You never know what a guy can do in a game until you give him a chance!

Like last season, Doc would never play Moore b/c as Doc said he never had an opportunity to see the rookies in practice so that's why he didn't trust them (in other words)! When Moore found his rhythm he started shooting well and running the offense but Doc still refused to let him play more than garbage minutes. Now this off-season they didn't want to give Moore up (because they knew he was a good role player) but were forced to in order to get Lee.



Really interesting point you make here, TP. From my point of view collins saw far more minutes last game than he deserved and i didn't see one ounce of enforcer or nastiness. I saw a guy going through the motions. And not too effectively at that.

I agree with muscularghandi that most of this role should fall on Bass's shoulders but if Collins gets those minutes i fully expect him to pick up any slack in this department, and i saw NOTHING.

I expect that from Collins too but it's hard for people to learn the rotations on D while playing 30mins per for us... I can't imagine what goes through Collins mind being thrown in for 2 minutes every 5th game. If Doc depended on him a little more I could see him doing just what he has done his entire career... play solid defense and be tough.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: European NBA fan on November 30, 2012, 07:01:50 PM
I was confused by that whole incident.  That foul wasn't really even that hard.  Humphries didn't even get called for a flagrant.  KG landed on his backside hard, but I think it had more to do with how he fell than how hard the foul was.
 

As far as I know, they can't call it a flagrant foul, since it happened after the whistle. Humphries got a technical for it, and another for the shoving match with Rondo. That's why he got ejected from the game. 

Rondo explained that the reason he was mad about the foul was that it happened while KG was unprotected, and he himself was hurt last season from a similar foul.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 30, 2012, 07:17:17 PM
It's funny, the last guy we had with any kind of 'tough' streak in him (bar Rondo and KG) was probably Jermaine Oneal.

As much as he sucked and was barely on the court, when he was out there he wouldn't take any garbage and had no fear of commiting a hard foul. 

Pietrus actually had that toughness in him as well - he was never a 'bad' guy, but he was just a guy who laid it all on the line every night.  Same can be said for Dooling, Marquis and Hollins.

It's actually funny when you think about it.  We essentially traded a bench of not very talented players who were full of heart, for a group of very talented players who have no heart.

Look at how we played last year compared to now - even at our absolute worst, our defense was never this bad.  This has taught me a very important lesson about talent vs personality.  Sometimes your better of with a total scrub who will work his butt off ever night rather than an ultra-talented player who just doesn't care.

And on that note, some people on here are suggesting we should trade for Gasol - a guy who personifies 'soft'.

It's ironic that right now I feel we'd be better off with Hollins, Marquis and Pietrus then we are with Bass, Lee and Green.   That entire concept is just beyond comprehension.

Actually I will give credit to one guy - Sullinger.  He's got a nice-guy attitude, but he's not soft. That kid plays hard every single night.  No wonder Doc and KG love the kid.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on November 30, 2012, 07:23:56 PM
and te leading rebounder.....doesn't anyone else WANT the ball as bad....?
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: KCattheStripe on November 30, 2012, 11:21:34 PM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)


Right, because we weren't contenders in 2010 or 2012... wait... no, that makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 30, 2012, 11:37:45 PM
You have to have Courtney, AB or KG at all times.

Rondo's going to cheat because any given night he'll have to go 40+ minutes.

When they start getting in the paint, they start acting real "tough". You've got to prevent that.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on December 01, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)


Right, because we weren't contenders in 2010 or 2012... wait... no, that makes perfect sense.

Celtics were contenders from 2008-2012, and possibly this year. So idk what you are talking about

I'm not saying Doc is a horrible coach, but he's only a good coach when things are going well. Plus overwhelming talent is the only way he can coach well, because it hides his deficiencies. When overwhelming talent isn't there, your deficiencies are out in the open for everyone to see. He wilts when the pressure is highest (AKA championship contender moments)

Idk bout you, but I can't find too many coaches that lost 3 playoff game 7's while up 3-2 in the series (2009, 2010, 2012). All in a span of 4 years with championship contender playoff teams. Hmmmm  ::)
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: KCattheStripe on December 01, 2012, 12:23:32 AM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)


Right, because we weren't contenders in 2010 or 2012... wait... no, that makes perfect sense.

Celtics were contenders from 2008-2012, and possibly this year. So idk what you are talking about

I'm not saying Doc is a horrible coach, but he's only a good coach when things are going well. Plus overwhelming talent is the only way he can coach well, because it hides his deficiencies. When overwhelming talent isn't there, your deficiencies are out in the open for everyone to see. He wilts when the pressure is highest (AKA championship contender moments)

Idk bout you, but I can't find too many coaches that lost 3 playoff game 7's while up 3-2 in the series (2009, 2010, 2012). All in a span of 4 years with championship contender playoff teams. Hmmmm  ::)

I think it's hard to say he wilts when he's under Championship pressure moments when that team flattened the Lakers in 2008. And you'd consider us contenders in09 without KG? because I wouldn't. I give him a pass on '10 because of the loss of Perkins in game 6 and I can see the blame for last year, I just don't put much stock in it.

Sidenote: Name me a coach who has won without overwhelming talent in these situations.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: OsirusCeltics on December 01, 2012, 12:50:07 AM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)


Right, because we weren't contenders in 2010 or 2012... wait... no, that makes perfect sense.

Celtics were contenders from 2008-2012, and possibly this year. So idk what you are talking about

I'm not saying Doc is a horrible coach, but he's only a good coach when things are going well. Plus overwhelming talent is the only way he can coach well, because it hides his deficiencies. When overwhelming talent isn't there, your deficiencies are out in the open for everyone to see. He wilts when the pressure is highest (AKA championship contender moments)

Idk bout you, but I can't find too many coaches that lost 3 playoff game 7's while up 3-2 in the series (2009, 2010, 2012). All in a span of 4 years with championship contender playoff teams. Hmmmm  ::)

I think it's hard to say he wilts when he's under Championship pressure moments when that team flattened the Lakers in 2008. And you'd consider us contenders in09 without KG? because I wouldn't. I give him a pass on '10 because of the loss of Perkins in game 6 and I can see the blame for last year, I just don't put much stock in it.

Sidenote: Name me a coach who has won without overwhelming talent in these situations.

You're proving my point. He won in 2008 with overwhelming talent. 3 superstars almost of of their prime foaming at the mouth to win a title, when their opportunity to win one was dwindling. NOTHING would have stopped them to play their best to win that title. Not even a coach who wilts under pressure

And remind me again, a team up by 30+ points in game 6 with only 2 minutes to go, is it alot of pressure that you might lose that game? I don't think so
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: tonyto3690 on December 01, 2012, 12:52:20 AM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)


Right, because we weren't contenders in 2010 or 2012... wait... no, that makes perfect sense.

Celtics were contenders from 2008-2012, and possibly this year. So idk what you are talking about

I'm not saying Doc is a horrible coach, but he's only a good coach when things are going well. Plus overwhelming talent is the only way he can coach well, because it hides his deficiencies. When overwhelming talent isn't there, your deficiencies are out in the open for everyone to see. He wilts when the pressure is highest (AKA championship contender moments)

Idk bout you, but I can't find too many coaches that lost 3 playoff game 7's while up 3-2 in the series (2009, 2010, 2012). All in a span of 4 years with championship contender playoff teams. Hmmmm  ::)

Man, and here I was thinking "We're better off without Rondo' would be the stupidest thing I'd ever hear on this site.  Not even 24 hours has gone by and you've successfully one upped it.

"DOC IS A HORRIBLE COACH BECAUSE WHEN HIS TEAMS ARE REALLY UNDER TALENTED, THEY DONT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS"

Cripes, do you even hear what you're saying?

Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: indeedproceed on December 01, 2012, 12:56:55 AM
Annnd this thread is getting a bit personal. Change the tone or its locked.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: KCattheStripe on December 01, 2012, 01:28:28 AM
Doc is not a disciplinarian. To be a great coach you have to have that element. Talent or not, your players have to follow and respect your decisions on the court
You're saying our players don't respect Doc and don't follow his decisions on the court? Please excuse me while I laugh this "argument" off.

Doc is the quintessential "When things are going well" coach. He's fun to be around when things are going well and makes better decisions. And yes at that time, his players listen to him. But when things get tough and it becomes a pressure situation, he's all out of sorts and doesn't know how to lead his team to victory. Almost Identical to Spoelstra
Doc didn't start working here in 2008. For that matter, the pre-2008 Doc-coached teams were fun to watch because they always played together and played hard, regardless of the fact they weren't going anywhere. So much about this theory.

I bolded an important part. Since when is a losing team in a pre-2008 era that barely gets 30 wins a season a pressure situation? *Confused*
When the pressure is high, Doc doesn't lead his team to victory most of the time. That is my point


You're right, because he's never led a team playing below their level to inspiring playoff runs. Nope, never.

Yeah yup, cause that pressure is equal to coaching a team who is a championship contender  ::)


Right, because we weren't contenders in 2010 or 2012... wait... no, that makes perfect sense.

Celtics were contenders from 2008-2012, and possibly this year. So idk what you are talking about

I'm not saying Doc is a horrible coach, but he's only a good coach when things are going well. Plus overwhelming talent is the only way he can coach well, because it hides his deficiencies. When overwhelming talent isn't there, your deficiencies are out in the open for everyone to see. He wilts when the pressure is highest (AKA championship contender moments)

Idk bout you, but I can't find too many coaches that lost 3 playoff game 7's while up 3-2 in the series (2009, 2010, 2012). All in a span of 4 years with championship contender playoff teams. Hmmmm  ::)

I think it's hard to say he wilts when he's under Championship pressure moments when that team flattened the Lakers in 2008. And you'd consider us contenders in09 without KG? because I wouldn't. I give him a pass on '10 because of the loss of Perkins in game 6 and I can see the blame for last year, I just don't put much stock in it.

Sidenote: Name me a coach who has won without overwhelming talent in these situations.

You're proving my point. He won in 2008 with overwhelming talent. 3 superstars almost of of their prime foaming at the mouth to win a title, when their opportunity to win one was dwindling. NOTHING would have stopped them to play their best to win that title. Not even a coach who wilts under pressure

And remind me again, a team up by 30+ points in game 6 with only 2 minutes to go, is it alot of pressure that you might lose that game? I don't think so


Remind me again how many coaches get their teams to that point. For that matter, How many coaches motivated a team to get game 4 done.
Title: Re: Rondo :"tired of being enforcer for c's"
Post by: BballTim on December 01, 2012, 03:38:11 AM
Idk bout you, but I can't find too many coaches that lost 3 playoff game 7's while up 3-2 in the series (2009, 2010, 2012). All in a span of 4 years with championship contender playoff teams. Hmmmm  ::)

  You're trying to claim that we lost those series because of coaching issues? Seriously?