CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: pearljammer10 on November 27, 2012, 01:08:04 PM
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I know there were A LOT of Ersan supporters this offseason. But man has he had an absolutely dismal start to the season.
Hes averaging 7 points and 5 boards a game with 1.4 assists and virtually no defensive stats. Hes shooting 35%!?! from the floor and 47% from the free throw line. He has only 4 double digit point games out of 12, one double digit rebound game, and no double doubles yet this season.
Finally hit a season high last night with 18 points, before that his high was 11.
Really liked his game last year, but whats going on? Hurt? Big contract troubles? Trouble fitting in?
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I read in an article in NBA's website that he talked about changing schemes in the frontcourt.
Apparently, nothing has settled in Bucks' roster yet.
He has started the season well below average and could only get better after this point.
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Always have wanted him! He just works super hard, he can score in so many ways, and he's a gifted rebounder.
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Played out of his mind two month period. Bass steady and consistent>Ilyasova overpaid tweener.
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nope -- grossly overpaid for too many years. i want a couple of the players they may have to trade to make room for Ersan's success, however. Udoh, Sanders and Mbah a Moute come to mind.
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I always wanted Ryan Anderson instead.
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I'd be happy to have him, but not on the contract they gave him.
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Another questions. Since they are making similar money.
Would you rather have Green or Ersan based on this years early production of each?
I go Green, just because Ersan has been completely dreadful, but some might think Green hasnt been much better. I think E.I. has more expectations from Bucks fans this year however.
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Another questions. Since they are making similar money.
Would you rather have Green or Ersan based on this years early production of each?
I go Green, just because Ersan has been completely dreadful, but some might think Green hasnt been much better. I think E.I. has more expectations from Bucks fans this year however.
In a vacuum, Ilyasova. His best year was better than Green's best year.
But his contract is a year longer and he's another PF who's not a rim protector. We have enough of those on this team.
Both are overpaid at their current production. Green is going to be overpaid until he can get big minutes. He'll be disappointing until he figures out how to be an impact reserve.
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I always wanted Ryan Anderson instead.
Same.
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Another questions. Since they are making similar money.
Would you rather have Green or Ersan based on this years early production of each?
I go Green, just because Ersan has been completely dreadful, but some might think Green hasnt been much better. I think E.I. has more expectations from Bucks fans this year however.
Milwaukee gave Ilyasova a really bad contract this summer so it's not saying much ... but I take Jeff Green over Ilyasova at their respective contracts.
Jeff Green is a solid 35mpg starter in the league (SF) which is more than can be said about Ersan Ilyasova (PF). Ilyasova is still too weak as a man-to-man defender + is a so-so shot creator = to be a starting PF. Ilyasova is a very good backup PF in the 25mpg variety. Similar to a Brandon Bass albeit with a different skill-set (I prefer Ilyasova to Bass).
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Another questions. Since they are making similar money.
Would you rather have Green or Ersan based on this years early production of each?
I go Green, just because Ersan has been completely dreadful, but some might think Green hasnt been much better. I think E.I. has more expectations from Bucks fans this year however.
Milwaukee gave Ilyasova a really bad contract this summer so it's not saying much ... but I take Jeff Green over Ilyasova at their respective contracts.
Jeff Green is a solid 35mpg starter in the league (SF) which is more than can be said about Ersan Ilyasova (PF). Ilyasova is still too weak as a man-to-man defender + is a so-so shot creator = to be a starting PF. Ilyasova is a very good backup PF in the 25mpg variety. Similar to a Brandon Bass albeit with a different skill-set (I prefer Ilyasova to Bass).
I hadn't compared Illyasova to Bass in my head, I really should have.
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Another questions. Since they are making similar money.
Would you rather have Green or Ersan based on this years early production of each?
I go Green, just because Ersan has been completely dreadful, but some might think Green hasnt been much better. I think E.I. has more expectations from Bucks fans this year however.
Milwaukee gave Ilyasova a really bad contract this summer so it's not saying much ... but I take Jeff Green over Ilyasova at their respective contracts.
Jeff Green is a solid 35mpg starter in the league (SF) which is more than can be said about Ersan Ilyasova (PF). Ilyasova is still too weak as a man-to-man defender + is a so-so shot creator = to be a starting PF. Ilyasova is a very good backup PF in the 25mpg variety. Similar to a Brandon Bass albeit with a different skill-set (I prefer Ilyasova to Bass).
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9pabq4mbG1rc79c7o3_1280.jpg)
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Another questions. Since they are making similar money.
Would you rather have Green or Ersan based on this years early production of each?
I go Green, just because Ersan has been completely dreadful, but some might think Green hasnt been much better. I think E.I. has more expectations from Bucks fans this year however.
Milwaukee gave Ilyasova a really bad contract this summer so it's not saying much ... but I take Jeff Green over Ilyasova at their respective contracts.
Jeff Green is a solid 35mpg starter in the league (SF) which is more than can be said about Ersan Ilyasova (PF). Ilyasova is still too weak as a man-to-man defender + is a so-so shot creator = to be a starting PF. Ilyasova is a very good backup PF in the 25mpg variety. Similar to a Brandon Bass albeit with a different skill-set (I prefer Ilyasova to Bass).
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9pabq4mbG1rc79c7o3_1280.jpg)
Jeff Green can defend and rebound his position (good defender/rebounder = good defense, adequate rebounding) and he has a solid well-rounded offensive skill-set (complementary offensive threat, 4th or 5th option).
Green has very good physical tools. Very good size. Solid strength and quickness. That helps him a lot defensively. Rarely gets overpowered by physically imposing players. This is important when matching up against the better players at your position.
A well rounded offensive skill-set. Has a decent jump-shot from midrange to three point range. Has a solid handle and moves the ball well. Not a playmaker. Good post-game. Can create mismatches against smaller wings. Other than that, a limited shot-creator. More of a complementary weapon offensively in the 12-14ppg variety. Similar to Tayshaun Prince in his well-rounded game but not as talented/skilled.
Jeff Green can also function as an undersized quick four on a part time basis when matchups permit. Capable of creating mismatches with his quickness and skill-level offensively vs less talented PFs.
Probably a top 20 starting SF in the league right now. There or thereabouts.
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Jeff Green can defend and rebound his position (good defender/rebounder = good defense, adequate rebounding) and he has a solid well-rounded offensive skill-set (complementary offensive threat, 4th or 5th option).
Green has very good physical tools. Very good size. Solid strength and quickness. That helps him a lot defensively. Rarely gets overpowered by physically imposing players. This is important when matching up against the better players at your position.
Green is a terrible rebounder. So far this season, he's grabbed 13.2% of available defensive rebounds, which ranks him 60th in the league at PF and 48th in the league at SF. His career averages are just about the same. In no way does this make him a "good" or even "adequate" rebounder. Just the opposite
In OKC as in Boston, his teams have generally performed better defensively when he's on the bench. That would indicate that he's also not a good or solid defender. it indicates he's below average to terrible
Green does have any interesting set of physical attributes. Too bad he hasn't put any of those to use in his NBA career.
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Jeff Green can defend and rebound his position (good defender/rebounder = good defense, adequate rebounding) and he has a solid well-rounded offensive skill-set (complementary offensive threat, 4th or 5th option).
Green has very good physical tools. Very good size. Solid strength and quickness. That helps him a lot defensively. Rarely gets overpowered by physically imposing players. This is important when matching up against the better players at your position.
Green is a terrible rebounder. So far this season, he's grabbed 13.2% of available defensive rebounds, which ranks him 60th in the league at PF and 48th in the league at SF. His career averages are just about the same. In no way does this make him a "good" or even "adequate" rebounder. Just the opposite
In OKC as in Boston, his teams have generally performed better defensively when he's on the bench. That would indicate that he's also not a good or solid defender. it indicates he's below average to terrible
Green does have any interesting set of physical attributes. Too bad he hasn't put any of those to use in his NBA career.
Jeff Green is a solid defender at the SF position. He is a very poor defender at the PF position. Paul Pierce is a well above average defender at the SF position. Pierce, for my money, is still the better individual defender at the SF position versus Green. Boston should play better defense when Pierce is on the floor and Green on the bench. Not sure if there is much difference in the proportion of playing time alongside Garnett, Rondo, Lee versus than those undersized lineups between the two players. That can effect team numbers on/off defensive stats.
Jeff Green is an adequate rebounder at the SF position. He is a very poor rebounder at the PF position. As a PF, Green is lousy at grabbing rebounds and terrible at keeping his opponent off the glass. As a SF, in Boston Jeff Green has grabbed a sub-par number of rebounds for his position but has generally kept pace with his counterpart at the SF position. In the past in Oklahoma, as a SF, Green usually grabbed an average number of rebounds and was either slightly ahead or near to his opponent's number of rebounds (I forget which). Combine that with his solid defense and his team should expect a small bump in team rebounding while he is on the floor given the increased number of missed shot attempts from the opponent and largely neutral individual board work at the SF position.
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So a tweener forward who had one solid year and got paid a fortune isn't living up to the hype? Shocking!
These athletic 3/4s are quietly sneaking up on centers in the category of overpaid disappointments. Green, Ilyasova, Gerald Wallace, Marvin Williams, Tyrus Thomas, Andre Kirilenko (his last contract), Thaddeus Young, etc.
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Well no, I wanted Hawes and/or Mayo, but all the Ersan-lovers kept saying they were all hype and no substance ::)
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So a tweener forward who had one solid year and got paid a fortune isn't living up to the hype? Shocking!
These athletic 3/4s are quietly sneaking up on centers in the category of overpaid disappointments. Green, Ilyasova, Gerald Wallace, Marvin Williams, Tyrus Thomas, Andre Kirilenko (his last contract), Thaddeus Young, etc.
Why include Wallace and Kirilenko with the other guys? Those two are established players in the NBA. Wallace's main shortcoming over his career is injury, not performance.
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So a tweener forward who had one solid year and got paid a fortune isn't living up to the hype? Shocking!
These athletic 3/4s are quietly sneaking up on centers in the category of overpaid disappointments. Green, Ilyasova, Gerald Wallace, Marvin Williams, Tyrus Thomas, Andre Kirilenko (his last contract), Thaddeus Young, etc.
Ilyasova is not athletic. He's just a stretch 4 who rebounded over his head in a contract year.
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Ersan Illyasova will not win you a championship.
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Ersan Illyasova will not win you a championship.
He could. As a backup 4 who changes the face of your offense off the bench. In the same way Jason Terry could win you a championship, or Ben Gordon. But he probably can't as a starting 4, much like Ryan Anderson.
He's better than this:So a tweener forward who had one solid year and got paid a fortune isn't living up to the hype? Shocking!
These athletic 3/4s are quietly sneaking up on centers in the category of overpaid disappointments. Green, Ilyasova, Gerald Wallace, Marvin Williams, Tyrus Thomas, Andre Kirilenko (his last contract), Thaddeus Young, etc.
Ilyasova is not athletic. He's just a stretch 4 who rebounded over his head in a contract year.
But he's not as bad as he looks right now.
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Not on that contract.
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Iim really happy Illy is playing poorly again so I can go back to honestly defending him. I did hate it so when he was playing so clearly above his head (by that I mean strictly the shooting). I'm a big fan of 'Turk Nowitzki', but I knew fools good when I saw it.
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Ftr, if we could trade Green and Bass for Dunleavy and Illy, Id be all kinds of super pumped. I'd even throw in a first.
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Ftr, if we could trade Green and Bass for Dunleavy and Illy, Id be all kinds of super pumped. I'd even throw in a first.
I'm surprised Dunleavy doesn't get more trade talk around here. He'd be a great fit as the backup 3. I guess the pie in the sky deals are always going to capture more hearts and minds.
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Ftr, if we could trade Green and Bass for Dunleavy and Illy, Id be all kinds of super pumped. I'd even throw in a first.
I'm surprised Dunleavy doesn't get more trade talk around here. He'd be a great fit as the backup 3. I guess the pie in the sky deals are always going to capture more hearts and minds.
The problem with Dunleavy is that his defense is very limited after all his injury problems (no great shake before that but even worse now).
Dunleavy is a matchup limited player. His coach can only use him, can only expect for Dunleavy to provide productive minutes, when Dunleavy pitted against a limited offensive threat. Otherwise, as good as Dunleavy is offensively, he'll take more of the table defensively than he'll add on the other end. Scott Skiles has really done an excellent job of utilizing Dunleavy since Dunleavy went to Milwaukee. He's gotten the most out of him.
For the Celtics, a team that is planning to play Miami for the Eastern Conference, adding two players who are defensively deficient man-to-man defenders (Dunleavy, Ilyasova) at the forward positions + would leave Paul Pierce as the sole defensive option against LeBron James for 40+mpg in a playoff series ... is a bad option.
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YES!
He's got a contract alright, but compare to Jeff's it's a little reasonable.
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YES!
He's got a contract alright, but compare to Jeff's it's a little reasonable.
How do you figure?
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Ftr, if we could trade Green and Bass for Dunleavy and Illy, Id be all kinds of super pumped. I'd even throw in a first.
I'm surprised Dunleavy doesn't get more trade talk around here. He'd be a great fit as the backup 3. I guess the pie in the sky deals are always going to capture more hearts and minds.
Dunleavy cant stop a sweet sack of oranges from scoring the basketball.
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So a tweener forward who had one solid year and got paid a fortune isn't living up to the hype? Shocking!
These athletic 3/4s are quietly sneaking up on centers in the category of overpaid disappointments. Green, Ilyasova, Gerald Wallace, Marvin Williams, Tyrus Thomas, Andre Kirilenko (his last contract), Thaddeus Young, etc.
Ilyasova is not athletic. He's just a stretch 4 who rebounded over his head in a contract year.
OK, he's mobile :)
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Ftr, if we could trade Green and Bass for Dunleavy and Illy, Id be all kinds of super pumped. I'd even throw in a first.
really? I'd be all kinds of p---ed-off if that happened.
2 functional players that can play decent team D and can score going out and we get 2 injury-prone players that may be able to score as well as the ones we're sending out but play far inferior D? no thanks
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Ftr, if we could trade Green and Bass for Dunleavy and Illy, Id be all kinds of super pumped. I'd even throw in a first.
really? I'd be all kinds of p---ed-off if that happened.
2 functional players that can play decent team D and can score going out and we get 2 injury-prone players that may be able to score as well as the ones we're sending out but play far inferior D? no thanks
Yeah I would not be happy with Dunleavy and EI over Green and Bass. We take away Bass and Green and we loose a ton of athleticism. Our offense has been darn good this season, its our defense that needs to come together. Counting on Dunleavy and EI for defense would be atrocious.
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Makes the Green contract a little more easier to take....heck, the way Jeff is playing, that contract is looking better and better (in a relative sense :)).
Clearly, Ersan has joined the ranks of the over-paid....