CelticsStrong

Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: PhoSita on November 25, 2012, 10:45:02 PM

Title: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 25, 2012, 10:45:02 PM
Here's a quick list of big men who come to mind when thinking of potential trade targets to help fix what ails the C's (rebounding, interior defense). 

These players should, in theory, have a lower asking price than the Josh Smiths and Marcin Gortats of the world.  By the same token, they're not All-Stars by any stretch.

-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: hpantazo on November 25, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
I'd like to grab Mozgov for cheap from the nuggets, but Doc would never play him.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: indeedproceed on November 25, 2012, 11:10:31 PM
Brendan Haywood would be awesome here. He'd play 20-24 minutes a night of unspectacular efficient defense and rebounding. He'd be perfect.

Ol Greg can't get on the floor in Minny either.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: jdz101 on November 25, 2012, 11:19:36 PM
Here's a quick list of big men who come to mind when thinking of potential trade targets to help fix what ails the C's (rebounding, interior defense). 

These players should, in theory, have a lower asking price than the Josh Smiths and Marcin Gortats of the world.  By the same token, they're not All-Stars by any stretch.

-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson aint going anywhere...and the rest of those guys are still significant dropoffs from what KG is, which is what we have now anyway.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 26, 2012, 10:41:35 AM
Another name I thought of:

-- Drew Gooden

Not always the best defender during his career, but he seems like the kind of guy who would benefit playing next to KG.

Quote from: jdz101
Jason Thompson aint going anywhere...and the rest of those guys are still significant dropoffs from what KG is, which is what we have now anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by the latter part of this.

Of course all of these guys are significant dropoffs from KG.  I never meant to suggest that any of these players would replace KG.  Rather, the idea, I would think, is to get a player who can play alongside KG for limited minutes, but more importantly somebody who can step into KG's role when KG is on the bench and do at least a credible job of protecting the paint and getting some points inside.  The Celtics desperately need a player like that.  I don't agree with you when you say that we already have that.

As for Jason Thompson's availability, I have to disagree.  He's a nice player, but he hasn't shown anything so far in his career to make him untouchable.  The Kings aren't in a position to consider any players "untouchable" other than Demarcus Cousins.  They need to open up some playing time for their lottery pick Thomas Robinson anyway, and they are pretty weak on the wings. 

I don't think a trade for JT is out of the question, though it may be a long shot.  Probably less so than a trade for Gortat or Josh Smith, though, which is the point of this.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: Who on November 26, 2012, 10:55:46 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: wdleehi on November 26, 2012, 11:00:20 AM
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 


Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: relja on November 26, 2012, 11:02:31 AM
Gamble with Greg Oden? What's his status anyway?
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: wdleehi on November 26, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
Gamble with Greg Oden? What's his status anyway?


Next season maybe?
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 26, 2012, 11:06:46 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: wdleehi on November 26, 2012, 11:08:27 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.


Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 26, 2012, 11:27:22 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: wdleehi on November 26, 2012, 11:36:09 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: European NBA fan on November 26, 2012, 11:42:04 AM
I still like Birdman better than any of these for that role. He was Denver's best defensive player last season.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 26, 2012, 11:46:15 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.

Well, the Celtics aren't going to ever be able to go the Grizzlies route (and really, the Grizz are the only team that can do that -- maybe the Jazz) unless the roster gets a drastic overhaul.  But they can make small, meaningful moves to try to shore up some weaknesses to give them a better chance at a higher seed and to become more capable of reaching the conference finals, where they can get another shot at knocking off the Heat.  That's the endgame.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 26, 2012, 11:47:20 AM
I still like Birdman better than any of these for that role. He was Denver's best defensive player last season.

I tend to think there's a pretty good reason that a guy like that is still unemployed at this point in the season, especially coming off a reasonably productive campaign the season before.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 26, 2012, 12:11:47 PM
For me Haywood would be the best option but he is unattainable this year. Drew Gooden is a name I like but he is more of a PF than a center.

Other than that, I dont think any of these guys would crack Docs rotation, so I would hate to trade away a Lee or a Bradley to have a center that is going to sit on our bench for the year.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: CapnDunks on November 26, 2012, 12:13:05 PM
A lot of people seem to think that we're set for depth at the 5 with kg/wilcox/collins. Which makes sense initially.

KG's minutes are limited and we NEED him fresh for the playoffs.

Wilcox is coming off of surgery and historically averages about 48 games a season.

We're suddenly very close to a lot of Collins against agile PF's at the 5 or playing Bass/Sullinger against 7 footers.

We need to pick up one more rotation quality big.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: ssspence on November 26, 2012, 01:37:48 PM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on November 26, 2012, 01:38:45 PM
A lot of people seem to think that we're set for depth at the 5 with kg/wilcox/collins. Which makes sense initially.

KG's minutes are limited and we NEED him fresh for the playoffs.

Wilcox is coming off of surgery and historically averages about 48 games a season.

We're suddenly very close to a lot of Collins against agile PF's at the 5 or playing Bass/Sullinger against 7 footers.

We need to pick up one more rotation quality big.

Yes, we need another guy who is 6'11'+, reasonably agile / athletic (i.e. not decrepit), a solid rebounder, and at least a factor as a shot-blocker. In this league, though, players who fit that description actually aren't that easy to come by, even total role players.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: LooseCannon on November 26, 2012, 03:58:24 PM
Yes, we need another guy who is 6'11'+, reasonably agile / athletic (i.e. not decrepit), a solid rebounder, and at least a factor as a shot-blocker. In this league, though, players who fit that description actually aren't that easy to come by, even total role players.

How decrepit is Tony Battie?
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 26, 2012, 04:03:23 PM
Bandwagon is here you guys...

Jason Smith.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: 2short on November 26, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
While his contract might be a bit more than needed, why not greg steimsma back?
Good outside shooting, very good shot blocking and knows our system.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: Who on November 26, 2012, 04:26:58 PM
While his contract might be a bit more than needed, why not greg steimsma back?
Good outside shooting, very good shot blocking and knows our system.
I would be happy to do that.

Happy to trade Courtney Lee for Stiemsma if needed ... after Bradley returns and proves he is healthy.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 26, 2012, 09:48:21 PM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

Heard someone here say the Bucks are really high on LRMM. They should be too.

Would not mind either Sanders or Udoh.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: Mazingerz on November 26, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Throw Fab Melo in the deep end i say. See if he can swim. or get Kenyon Martin for vet min. No trades at this time IMHO
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: ItStaysYang on November 27, 2012, 01:26:46 AM
gortat
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: nostar on November 27, 2012, 07:46:58 AM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: slamtheking on November 27, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
i'm feeling pretty stupid right now --> who is LRMM on the Bucks that has everyone drooling?

nevermind -- figured it out --> wasn't showing on this year's roster.  yeah, he'd be good to pick up on a reasonable deal
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: jdz101 on November 27, 2012, 08:31:23 AM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

What the deuce.

So we give up a starter, and two pretty talented bench guys, one of whom is on a rookie contract and shows a load of potential for being a starter in the nba. Plus we give up another project 7 footer.

In return we get a reasonable defender that can't do much else, a vet that isn't getting minutes on a pretty mediocre team, and a bench big that's grabbing the astonishing stats of 8 points 7 rebounds a game.

If milwaukee called Danny with that proposal he'd start laughing after he cleaned up his own vomit.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: ssspence on November 27, 2012, 02:05:17 PM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc). 
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: fitzhickey on November 27, 2012, 03:11:45 PM
Tiago Splitter
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 27, 2012, 03:15:14 PM
Tiago Splitter

What makes you think he is available?
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: hpantazo on November 27, 2012, 04:00:49 PM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc).

What's wrong with Gooden other than his contract? Did he have some issues with Doc that I might have missed? He seems like a good PF with range otherwise.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: jdz101 on November 27, 2012, 05:43:51 PM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc).

What's wrong with Gooden other than his contract? Did he have some issues with Doc that I might have missed? He seems like a good PF with range otherwise.

He isn't even getting burn for Milwaukee and his contract sucks. That's pretty much enough for me.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: hpantazo on November 27, 2012, 07:21:58 PM
Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc).

What's wrong with Gooden other than his contract? Did he have some issues with Doc that I might have missed? He seems like a good PF with range otherwise.

He isn't even getting burn for Milwaukee and his contract sucks. That's pretty much enough for me.

He's not being used in Milwaukee because they are developing a lot of young big guys, as they should have done last year. He put up great numbers last year though.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: nostar on November 27, 2012, 08:19:40 PM
What the deuce.

So we give up a starter, and two pretty talented bench guys, one of whom is on a rookie contract and shows a load of potential for being a starter in the nba. Plus we give up another project 7 footer.

In return we get a reasonable defender that can't do much else, a vet that isn't getting minutes on a pretty mediocre team, and a bench big that's grabbing the astonishing stats of 8 points 7 rebounds a game.

If milwaukee called Danny with that proposal he'd start laughing after he cleaned up his own vomit.

Brandon Bass is loosely a starter here and almost entirely because we don't have a better option. As you may have seen Sully has started a few times already this year which doesn't inspire much confidence in Bass.

I think the only reason I like this trade is because I am pretty high on LRMM. Durant is quoted as saying he's a top NBA defender at the SF position and coming from the scoring champ that is saying something.

Sanders for Melo is a good deal because Sanders can actually play NBA ball now and we're in a win-now mode.

Bass for Gooden is pretty straight forward. We get a little rebounding and physicality and give up some percentages and youth. Also Gooden is up for trade and thusly not a part of the rotation. It's not his play, it's the Bucks organization trying to develop their youth.

Sully is probably the thing that stops be from doing this trade, if anything.

I think this trade does give away some of the future. Including Sully and moving Green before he gets his feet under him is a huge gamble but this trade makes us a better defensive team immediately and I'm 50/50 on whether I'd do it after 24 hrs and a good nights rest :)

Here is another trade that works:

Green/Bass/Sully/Lee/Melo
for
Ellis/LRMM/Gooden/Sanders

The reason I put this up is that it gives our team a better package in return for pretty much all of our youth/depth.

Rondo/Terry
Ellis/AB
PP/LRMM
KG/Gooden
Wilcox/Sanders

We'd have to sign KMart or some serviceable C prospect but it's a team swap from NBA2K13 that will never happen in the NBA. I think the closest we will see was what the Magic did a few years back moving their core team for packages from Phoenix and Washington.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: jdz101 on November 28, 2012, 03:24:22 AM
What the deuce.

So we give up a starter, and two pretty talented bench guys, one of whom is on a rookie contract and shows a load of potential for being a starter in the nba. Plus we give up another project 7 footer.

In return we get a reasonable defender that can't do much else, a vet that isn't getting minutes on a pretty mediocre team, and a bench big that's grabbing the astonishing stats of 8 points 7 rebounds a game.

If milwaukee called Danny with that proposal he'd start laughing after he cleaned up his own vomit.

Brandon Bass is loosely a starter here and almost entirely because we don't have a better option. As you may have seen Sully has started a few times already this year which doesn't inspire much confidence in Bass.

I think the only reason I like this trade is because I am pretty high on LRMM. Durant is quoted as saying he's a top NBA defender at the SF position and coming from the scoring champ that is saying something.

Sanders for Melo is a good deal because Sanders can actually play NBA ball now and we're in a win-now mode.

Bass for Gooden is pretty straight forward. We get a little rebounding and physicality and give up some percentages and youth. Also Gooden is up for trade and thusly not a part of the rotation. It's not his play, it's the Bucks organization trying to develop their youth.

Sully is probably the thing that stops be from doing this trade, if anything.

I think this trade does give away some of the future. Including Sully and moving Green before he gets his feet under him is a huge gamble but this trade makes us a better defensive team immediately and I'm 50/50 on whether I'd do it after 24 hrs and a good nights rest :)

Here is another trade that works:

Green/Bass/Sully/Lee/Melo
for
Ellis/LRMM/Gooden/Sanders

The reason I put this up is that it gives our team a better package in return for pretty much all of our youth/depth.

Rondo/Terry
Ellis/AB
PP/LRMM
KG/Gooden
Wilcox/Sanders

We'd have to sign KMart or some serviceable C prospect but it's a team swap from NBA2K13 that will never happen in the NBA. I think the closest we will see was what the Magic did a few years back moving their core team for packages from Phoenix and Washington.

You're still trading young guys with great potential for moderate talent in return.

All I see in sanders is a decent rotation big who can block a shot or two.

Gooden is a reasonable player but is on the decline and probably unfit due to complete lack of minutes.

Luc richard is coming back from injury. Also probably unfit and game-slow.

You don't win championships with monta ellis. He is the complete opposite of celtics basketball.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: CFAN38 on November 29, 2012, 11:07:58 AM
Didnt read the whole thread but my two lesser big man targets would be

Jordan Hill

Ed Davis

both are athletic and great per 48min rebounders

Lee + Wilcox/melo  for Hill + Ebanks seems reasonable,

the big man rotation could become start Sully + KG, then bench is Bass + Hill. This improves our starting units rebounding by replacing Bass (9.3 per 48) with Sully (11.8 per 48). Hill's rebounding (15.5 per 48) and size will then help the Cs inside when KG is on the bench.

Hill isnt fitting into dantonis' system and they could use Lee on the wing with Kobe.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: StartOrien on November 29, 2012, 11:27:23 AM
Just a thought:

Hasheem Thabeet's improved play makes me more opportunistic about Fab Melo, who was much more of a polished product coming out of school than Thabeet. Don't expect him to produce this season (like the though of adding Chris Andersen), but it gives me hope.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: CFAN38 on November 29, 2012, 11:38:43 AM
Quote
Just a thought:

Hasheem Thabeet's improved play makes me more opportunistic about Fab Melo, who was much more of a polished product coming out of school than Thabeet. Don't expect him to produce this season (like the though of adding Chris Andersen), but it gives me hope.

Thabeet was way ahead of melo coming out of college. Thabeet average around 13pt 10rb 4.5blk, melo only 8pt 6rb 3 blk both at the age of 22.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: PhoSita on December 03, 2012, 08:11:40 AM
Quote
Just a thought:

Hasheem Thabeet's improved play makes me more opportunistic about Fab Melo, who was much more of a polished product coming out of school than Thabeet. Don't expect him to produce this season (like the though of adding Chris Andersen), but it gives me hope.

Thabeet was way ahead of melo coming out of college. Thabeet average around 13pt 10rb 4.5blk, melo only 8pt 6rb 3 blk both at the age of 22.

Yeah, I think they are fairly different as players.  I do think that a large part of Thabeet's college success was that he is just a lot bigger, not that he was necessarily more polished.  Both have a similar lack of experience playing the game.

I think that Hasheem's career trajectory so far is probably similar to what we can expect from Melo, though hopefully without the bouncing around from team to team.  Hopefully, too, the Celtics will be able to get him to develop a bit more quickly by not mishandling him as badly as the Grizzlies mishandled Thabeet.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: D.o.s. on December 04, 2012, 12:57:53 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.

While it's not really small ball, the Knicks looked great against Miami with Melo at the 4.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 04, 2012, 07:16:21 AM
-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.

While it's not really small ball, the Knicks looked great against Miami with Melo at the 4.

They have Chandler

Then one 7 footer

Then another

Didn't watch but did their 3 bigs not matter?
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: fugazzi24 on December 21, 2012, 10:34:48 AM
Here is a trade I feel is realistic and helps both teams. 

Mareesse Speights for Courtney Lee

Memphis needs a back-up SG who can shoot the three and guard SG's like Kobe, Tony Allen has declined this year.  Memphis already has Darrel Arthur who is a good back up PF.   

Boston gets a real 6'10" player who has a good mid-range jumper to spread floor for rondo and the 15th Highest Rebound Rate in the league. 

Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on December 21, 2012, 10:42:36 AM
Semih Erden. I remember that he knows the system already. Played THROUGH injuries fairly decently.
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: Cman on December 21, 2012, 10:47:07 AM
Here is a trade I feel is realistic and helps both teams. 

Mareesse Speights for Courtney Lee

Memphis needs a back-up SG who can shoot the three and guard SG's like Kobe, Tony Allen has declined this year.  Memphis already has Darrel Arthur who is a good back up PF.   

Boston gets a real 6'10" player who has a good mid-range jumper to spread floor for rondo and the 15th Highest Rebound Rate in the league.

Yes, I like this trade for Boston, especially with Bradley coming back. But Boston would have to send more to Memphis -- Speights is on a really good contract for a big man (he has 2 years left at about $4.5M or so).
Title: Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
Post by: LooseCannon on December 21, 2012, 07:19:09 PM
Based on their past transactions, if they were going to trade Speights, Memphis would be more likely to go for a salary dump and seek a SG on a rookie scale contract who makes less then Speights.  Their second choice would probably be a useful veteran on an expiring contract and a first round pick.  Courtney Lee doesn't seem like the kind of contract the Grizzlies would take back.