CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: ianboyextreme on November 20, 2012, 12:06:49 AM
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Hes a beast on the boards. What do you think they would demand and what you think they would actually get if they end up trading him?
p.s. I dont see OKC giving up their raptors lottery pick for him.
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Hes a beast on the boards. What do you think they would demand and what you think they would actually get if they end up trading him?
p.s. I dont see OKC giving up their raptors lottery pick for him.
I think the cavs are in a situation lots of teams are in; Varejao means more to Cleveland than other teams will be willing to offer. Kind of like us with Bradley, or like Iggy in Philly for a lot of years.
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I'm not going to link to Hoopsworld because of the annoying video that auto-played, but they claim:
League sources said bluntly, that anything involving Varejao is also going to have to move out Luke Walton and his $6 million ending contract and return youth and draft picks.
I think it is reasonable for Cleveland to hold out for that.
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I'm not sure I'm willing to trade the salary to match Varejao and Walton. We're talking 14.5M. I'd trade Bass and Lee for Varejao and Casspi/Miles and honestly I wouldn't mind taking on Walton as dead weight but I couldn't stomach shipping out Green or some combination of our rookies to make the salaries match for Walton.
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As I said for Gortat, I don't want a trade but if Danny is going to trade for either of them (if I was him), I would be willing to give up any combination of Sully, Green, Clee, Melo, and any picks we had within reason (I would also give up Bass, reluctantly)... I would not give up AB. That's just me though.
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I will give up:
Lee + Bass + 1st Round Pick (~ $12M)
Lee + Sully + 1st Round Pick (~ $8M)
Barbosa + Bass + 1st Round Pick (~ 7M)
Barbosa + Sully + 1st Round Pick (~ 3M, this wouldn't get us much)
I'd consider chucking Kris Joseph into any of those deals as well.
I really do not want to give up Terry, Green or Bradley. You can say what you want about Terry and Green but they are both giving us 15-18 points per 36 minutes, which is solid offensive production.
They both also fill an important role - Terry as our designated shooter and Green as versatile backup SF (I do NOT want Joseph or Lee starting @ SF if Pierce misses a game).
Bradley is just too skilled with too much upside for him to consider giving him up.
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Green and filler.
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Doc would turn him into a 10 foot shooter and non rebounder, just like bass, big baby, now sully......or he would ride the pine...! Like Darko...!!! And anyone else in the past who tried to rebound...!!!
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Most likely a lot more than the C's have to offer.
He has been a monster when he has been on the floor the last 2 seasons, and even before that was one of the better defensive big men in the game...and makes about half as much money as other starting centers of his caliber for the next 2 years. If he becomes available, the asking price is going to be very high.
I think the more likely scenario though, is that Cleveland holds onto him, and tries to make a run at a playoff spot, using their cap space to add a couple key pieces...well, if Kyrie can ever get on the floor.
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Most likely a lot more than the C's have to offer.
He has been a monster when he has been on the floor the last 2 seasons, and even before that was one of the better defensive big men in the game...and makes about half as much money as other starting centers of his caliber for the next 2 years. If he becomes available, the asking price is going to be very high.
I think the more likely scenario though, is that Cleveland holds onto him, and tries to make a run at a playoff spot, using their cap space to add a couple key pieces...well, if Kyrie can ever get on the floor.
Sort of depends on how long Irving is out.
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Most likely a lot more than the C's have to offer.
He has been a monster when he has been on the floor the last 2 seasons, and even before that was one of the better defensive big men in the game...and makes about half as much money as other starting centers of his caliber for the next 2 years. If he becomes available, the asking price is going to be very high.
I think the more likely scenario though, is that Cleveland holds onto him, and tries to make a run at a playoff spot, using their cap space to add a couple key pieces...well, if Kyrie can ever get on the floor.
This is where I am at too. I really dislike Varejo but you cant knock his play. He is a beast and does the dirty work and hustle night in and night out and its really paying off because he is producing effectively.
For the Cavs to trade Varejo they are probably going to have to be blown away by an offer, something I dont think we have to give unless we do something absurd like Bradley, Green, and Bass which a) wont happen from our end and b) probably isnt even something the Cavs are interested in. Varejo could probably net them a young all star potential/franchise forming player. And really, Varejo is somewhat close to that. For the rebuilding mode he fits their team perfectly, and much better than anything we could give up.
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Most likely a lot more than the C's have to offer.
He has been a monster when he has been on the floor the last 2 seasons, and even before that was one of the better defensive big men in the game...and makes about half as much money as other starting centers of his caliber for the next 2 years. If he becomes available, the asking price is going to be very high.
I think the more likely scenario though, is that Cleveland holds onto him, and tries to make a run at a playoff spot, using their cap space to add a couple key pieces...well, if Kyrie can ever get on the floor.
Sort of depends on how long Irving is out.
True. But, even if Irving's injury submarines the season, I still expect them to ask for the moon and stars for Varajao. They can always trade him in the offseason, if they don't get what they want for him now.
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The Cs can take on Walton's money by sending Green, Bass, a first and a second to the Cavs for Handy Andy and Walton.
The Cavs, who are going no where, get two rotation guys at reasonable money and picks. Boston gets a key glue guy that they desperately need in order to compete with Miami.
And no, backup SG isn't more important than rebounding and paint presence.
Walton is on an expiring deal, and might be flippable for to a team looking to clear out a multi-year MLE level deal.
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I don't really understand the point of holding onto Varejao.
He is an elite complimentary player but not a cornerstone of a franchise.in my opinion.
I just don't see the point of holding on to him ad he has gone through his ceiling pretty much. Why not look at some young guys with star potential +Draft picks?
Also any chance (although something I hate about the NBA) that he starts griping about his situation and possibly ask suggest that they move on?
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I don't really understand the point of holding onto Varejao.
He is an elite complimentary player but not a cornerstone of a franchise.in my opinion.
I just don't see the point of holding on to him ad he has gone through his ceiling pretty much. Why not look at some young guys with star potential +Draft picks?
Also any chance (although something I hate about the NBA) that he starts griping about his situation and possibly ask suggest that they move on?
Well, there are two ways they can go here.
If Kyrie is healthy, they might only be 1 more All-Star level player away from being a very dangerous team, but a big part of that would be having Varajao in the middle. They have the cap space to make a deal for an impact player, along with a stockpile of future #1s (2 from Miami, 1 from LA, and one from Sacramento) if anyone hits the market.
But, if Kyrie is not going to be healthy, or they don't see a way to add another piece, then I agree that it does make sense to move Varajao. But I don't think they will be in any rush, since he is under contract for another season. They can hold out for the package they want. And I just don't see the C's being a good match for that.
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I don't really understand the point of holding onto Varejao.
He is an elite complimentary player but not a cornerstone of a franchise.in my opinion.
I just don't see the point of holding on to him ad he has gone through his ceiling pretty much. Why not look at some young guys with star potential +Draft picks?
Also any chance (although something I hate about the NBA) that he starts griping about his situation and possibly ask suggest that they move on?
Well, there are two ways they can go here.
If Kyrie is healthy, they might only be 1 more All-Star level player away from being a very dangerous team, but a big part of that would be having Varajao in the middle. They have the cap space to make a deal for an impact player, along with a stockpile of future #1s (2 from Miami, 1 from LA, and one from Sacramento) if anyone hits the market.
But, if Kyrie is not going to be healthy, or they don't see a way to add another piece, then I agree that it does make sense to move Varajao. But I don't think they will be in any rush, since he is under contract for another season. They can hold out for the package they want. And I just don't see the C's being a good match for that.
What's a very dangerous team? Low playoff seed that could upset a team?
I just don't see them even competing really with those top 4-5 teams for the foreseeable future. You got Miami, nets, knicks, hawks, boston, with pacers + Sixers looking in from the outside.
I don't see them improving dramatically (or to be a threat in the east) adding one more star like Joe Johnson unless you are talking a super star.
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I don't really understand the point of holding onto Varejao.
He is an elite complimentary player but not a cornerstone of a franchise.in my opinion.
I just don't see the point of holding on to him ad he has gone through his ceiling pretty much. Why not look at some young guys with star potential +Draft picks?
Also any chance (although something I hate about the NBA) that he starts griping about his situation and possibly ask suggest that they move on?
Well, there are two ways they can go here.
If Kyrie is healthy, they might only be 1 more All-Star level player away from being a very dangerous team, but a big part of that would be having Varajao in the middle. They have the cap space to make a deal for an impact player, along with a stockpile of future #1s (2 from Miami, 1 from LA, and one from Sacramento) if anyone hits the market.
But, if Kyrie is not going to be healthy, or they don't see a way to add another piece, then I agree that it does make sense to move Varajao. But I don't think they will be in any rush, since he is under contract for another season. They can hold out for the package they want. And I just don't see the C's being a good match for that.
What's a very dangerous team? Low playoff seed that could upset a team?
I just don't see them even competing really with those top 4-5 teams for the foreseeable future. You got Miami, nets, knicks, hawks, boston, with pacers + Sixers looking in from the outside.
I don't see them improving dramatically (or to be a threat in the east) adding one more star like Joe Johnson unless you are talking a super star.
When you are talking about developing a potential superstar in Irving, a low playoff seed and an upset chance, can be much more valuable than a couple more draft picks or more young guys, for a team that already has a stock of them.
Here are the assets the Cavs have to build around:
Irving - young superstar
Waiters - looks like he could be a star as well, and is surprisingly fitting in well with Irving
Tristan Thompson - Talented, athletic PF, who is already a quality defender and rebounder, and is developing nicely offensively.
Tyler Zeller - Looks like he will at least be a servicable backup center, if not more.
Even Alonzo Gee looks like he is turning into a very good player.
Then they have 4 first round draft picks coming there way, in addition to all of their own, and a couple extra second rounders as well.
So, they have a decent stockpile of assets, and young players. They are really reaching the point in their lifecycle, where they need to stop collecting and turn some of those assets into a winning basketball team, before they create a lasting culture of losing, that spoils everything.
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Man, if Cleveland had only taken Valuncinias last year and/or admitted they made a mistake on Thompson and selected Thomas Robinson last year. They could move Varejao for Bradley and start to mold themselves into a real team.
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Man, if Cleveland had only taken Valuncinias last year and/or admitted they made a mistake on Thompson and selected Thomas Robinson last year. They could move Varejao for Bradley and start to mold themselves into a real team.
I'm not as down on Waiters as most people seem to be. He looks lost at times and is terribly inconsistent, but he has elite-level range on that shot of his and should be able to mold into a pretty electric scorer (maybe best suited for a 6th man role?)
Even being the optimist i am on Waiters, the idea of an Irving/Bradley backourt and a Robinson/Verejo frontcourt sounds like a GMs wet dream. Great mix of youth, defense, energy, and skill. Add a veteran presence at the 3 to help Irving/Varejao out with the leadership duties and you've got a playoff team ontop of a terrific youth movement.
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Man, if Cleveland had only taken Valuncinias last year and/or admitted they made a mistake on Thompson and selected Thomas Robinson last year. They could move Varejao for Bradley and start to mold themselves into a real team.
I'm not as down on Waiters as most people seem to be. He looks lost at times and is terribly inconsistent, but he has elite-level range on that shot of his and should be able to mold into a pretty electric scorer (maybe best suited for a 6th man role?)
Even being the optimist i am on Waiters, the idea of an Irving/Bradley backourt and a Robinson/Verejo frontcourt sounds like a GMs wet dream. Great mix of youth, defense, energy, and skill. Add a veteran presence at the 3 to help Irving/Varejao out with the leadership duties and you've got a playoff team ontop of a terrific youth movement.
I thought Waiters was a terrible pick at draft time, but now that I actually see him play in the NBA, I think he was just made for the NBA game, and is going to be REALLY good.
I also am not sure they made a mistake with Thompson. Yes, they should have taken Valunciunas, as should have everyone picking after Irving was off the board, but I actually think Thompson looks like he will be a very good player. He is still raw offensively, but he is coming along a lot quicker than I thought in that area, and is a very good defensive player.
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Mistake with Thompson? Dude is among the league leaders in offensive rebounds and has shown a better more refined and more efficient all around game this year in just his second year. Frankly I'd rather have Thompson than Thomas Robinson.
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Mistake with Thompson? Dude is among the league leaders in offensive rebounds and has shown a better more refined and more efficient all around game this year in just his second year. Frankly I'd rather have Thompson than Thomas Robinson.
I actually would too. I like Robinson, as a pick and roll big man, in the David West mould, but I think Thompson will be a more well rounded player.
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Mistake with Thompson? Dude is among the league leaders in offensive rebounds and has shown a better more refined and more efficient all around game this year in just his second year. Frankly I'd rather have Thompson than Thomas Robinson.
I actually would too. I like Robinson, as a pick and roll big man, in the David West mould, but I think Thompson will be a more well rounded player.
Yeah, I'd prefer Thompson
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I don't really understand the point of holding onto Varejao.
He is an elite complimentary player but not a cornerstone of a franchise.in my opinion.
I just don't see the point of holding on to him ad he has gone through his ceiling pretty much. Why not look at some young guys with star potential +Draft picks?
Also any chance (although something I hate about the NBA) that he starts griping about his situation and possibly ask suggest that they move on?
Well, there are two ways they can go here.
If Kyrie is healthy, they might only be 1 more All-Star level player away from being a very dangerous team, but a big part of that would be having Varajao in the middle. They have the cap space to make a deal for an impact player, along with a stockpile of future #1s (2 from Miami, 1 from LA, and one from Sacramento) if anyone hits the market.
But, if Kyrie is not going to be healthy, or they don't see a way to add another piece, then I agree that it does make sense to move Varajao. But I don't think they will be in any rush, since he is under contract for another season. They can hold out for the package they want. And I just don't see the C's being a good match for that.
What's a very dangerous team? Low playoff seed that could upset a team?
I just don't see them even competing really with those top 4-5 teams for the foreseeable future. You got Miami, nets, knicks, hawks, boston, with pacers + Sixers looking in from the outside.
I don't see them improving dramatically (or to be a threat in the east) adding one more star like Joe Johnson unless you are talking a super star.
When you are talking about developing a potential superstar in Irving, a low playoff seed and an upset chance, can be much more valuable than a couple more draft picks or more young guys, for a team that already has a stock of them.
Here are the assets the Cavs have to build around:
Irving - young superstar
Waiters - looks like he could be a star as well, and is surprisingly fitting in well with Irving
Tristan Thompson - Talented, athletic PF, who is already a quality defender and rebounder, and is developing nicely offensively.
Tyler Zeller - Looks like he will at least be a servicable backup center, if not more.
Even Alonzo Gee looks like he is turning into a very good player.
Then they have 4 first round draft picks coming there way, in addition to all of their own, and a couple extra second rounders as well.
So, they have a decent stockpile of assets, and young players. They are really reaching the point in their lifecycle, where they need to stop collecting and turn some of those assets into a winning basketball team, before they create a lasting culture of losing, that spoils everything.
That's a wildly generous assessment of Cleveland's talent base (Thompson isn't showing much of anything offensively - 45% shooting on low volume - and is still very raw as a defender; I don't see Waiters star potential unless you consider Ben Gordon a star - a 6th man scorer who is too small/limited to be a bonafide starter at the 2-guard; Ty Zeller hasn't even shown himself to be a servicable back-up yet; Gee is a fringe rotation player).
But I can still see your point and see why the Cavs might be hopeful that they can follow a similar route to the one the C's rode to glory in 2007. Walton/Gibson/Casspi is a pretty sizable chunk of expiring contracts (that Gibson is half-guaranteed is an extra bonus) and they do have a ton of picks and prospects.
But outside of the untouchable Irving, they lack a Big Al heavy-hitter prospect. Thompson & Waiters were big reaches in the draft and haven't blossomed into major assets yet. And Zeller/Gee/late first rounders are firmly in the Gerald Green/Ryan Gomes/future picks category as modestly attractive fill-in.
The one heavy hitter in Cleveland's arsenal is their upcoming pick. And I don't think they'd be best served by spending that on a veteran impact player just yet - they are quite a bit further away from contention than any of the players potentially available on the market could bring them. That's the other problem.
Of the games top 10-20 players, are any on the market for a picks + prospects package? LeBron, Durant, Howard, CP3, D-Will, Wade, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Harden, Westbrook, KG, Bosh, Melo, Griffin, Love... The best guy on the trading block (in my view) is Pau - and he's not going to be had for picks and prospects. Dirk is another, but I don't think Dallas will move him. Too stubborn.
That leaves guys like Josh Smith and maybe Al Horford.
No I think Cleveland is better off trading Varejao, accumulating more assets and building a stronger, younger foundation around Irving.
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I don't really understand the point of holding onto Varejao.
He is an elite complimentary player but not a cornerstone of a franchise.in my opinion.
I just don't see the point of holding on to him ad he has gone through his ceiling pretty much. Why not look at some young guys with star potential +Draft picks?
Also any chance (although something I hate about the NBA) that he starts griping about his situation and possibly ask suggest that they move on?
Well, there are two ways they can go here.
If Kyrie is healthy, they might only be 1 more All-Star level player away from being a very dangerous team, but a big part of that would be having Varajao in the middle. They have the cap space to make a deal for an impact player, along with a stockpile of future #1s (2 from Miami, 1 from LA, and one from Sacramento) if anyone hits the market.
But, if Kyrie is not going to be healthy, or they don't see a way to add another piece, then I agree that it does make sense to move Varajao. But I don't think they will be in any rush, since he is under contract for another season. They can hold out for the package they want. And I just don't see the C's being a good match for that.
What's a very dangerous team? Low playoff seed that could upset a team?
I just don't see them even competing really with those top 4-5 teams for the foreseeable future. You got Miami, nets, knicks, hawks, boston, with pacers + Sixers looking in from the outside.
I don't see them improving dramatically (or to be a threat in the east) adding one more star like Joe Johnson unless you are talking a super star.
When you are talking about developing a potential superstar in Irving, a low playoff seed and an upset chance, can be much more valuable than a couple more draft picks or more young guys, for a team that already has a stock of them.
Here are the assets the Cavs have to build around:
Irving - young superstar
Waiters - looks like he could be a star as well, and is surprisingly fitting in well with Irving
Tristan Thompson - Talented, athletic PF, who is already a quality defender and rebounder, and is developing nicely offensively.
Tyler Zeller - Looks like he will at least be a servicable backup center, if not more.
Even Alonzo Gee looks like he is turning into a very good player.
Then they have 4 first round draft picks coming there way, in addition to all of their own, and a couple extra second rounders as well.
So, they have a decent stockpile of assets, and young players. They are really reaching the point in their lifecycle, where they need to stop collecting and turn some of those assets into a winning basketball team, before they create a lasting culture of losing, that spoils everything.
That's a wildly generous assessment of Cleveland's talent base (Thompson isn't showing much of anything offensively - 45% shooting on low volume - and is still very raw as a defender; I don't see Waiters star potential unless you consider Ben Gordon a star - a 6th man scorer who is too small/limited to be a bonafide starter at the 2-guard; Ty Zeller hasn't even shown himself to be a servicable back-up yet; Gee is a fringe rotation player).
But I can still see your point and see why the Cavs might be hopeful that they can follow a similar route to the one the C's rode to glory in 2007. Walton/Gibson/Casspi is a pretty sizable chunk of expiring contracts (that Gibson is half-guaranteed is an extra bonus) and they do have a ton of picks and prospects.
But outside of the untouchable Irving, they lack a Big Al heavy-hitter prospect. Thompson & Waiters were big reaches in the draft and haven't blossomed into major assets yet. And Zeller/Gee/late first rounders are firmly in the Gerald Green/Ryan Gomes/future picks category as modestly attractive fill-in.
The one heavy hitter in Cleveland's arsenal is their upcoming pick. And I don't think they'd be best served by spending that on a veteran impact player just yet - they are quite a bit further away from contention than any of the players potentially available on the market could bring them. That's the other problem.
Of the games top 10-20 players, are any on the market for a picks + prospects package? LeBron, Durant, Howard, CP3, D-Will, Wade, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Harden, Westbrook, KG, Bosh, Melo, Griffin, Love... The best guy on the trading block (in my view) is Pau - and he's not going to be had for picks and prospects. Dirk is another, but I don't think Dallas will move him. Too stubborn.
That leaves guys like Josh Smith and maybe Al Horford.
No I think Cleveland is better off trading Varejao, accumulating more assets and building a stronger, younger foundation around Irving.
I agree, I mean they are pretty much in this place now, AV does not do anything for them (I don't mean play but as far as where they go as a team). I think them keeping his is a waste... they could be getting a lot for him instead of just letting him go all out for a bad team... what do they gain by keeping him (he isn't getting any younger)? I also don't think they are one star away, I don't think even LeBroid could win anything with them (when it matters in the playoffs). I think they need another STAR and some very good role players with a lot of experience.
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Man, if Cleveland had only taken Valuncinias last year and/or admitted they made a mistake on Thompson and selected Thomas Robinson last year. They could move Varejao for Bradley and start to mold themselves into a real team.
I'm not as down on Waiters as most people seem to be. He looks lost at times and is terribly inconsistent, but he has elite-level range on that shot of his and should be able to mold into a pretty electric scorer (maybe best suited for a 6th man role?)
Even being the optimist i am on Waiters, the idea of an Irving/Bradley backourt and a Robinson/Verejo frontcourt sounds like a GMs wet dream. Great mix of youth, defense, energy, and skill. Add a veteran presence at the 3 to help Irving/Varejao out with the leadership duties and you've got a playoff team ontop of a terrific youth movement.
why are yall salivating over the idea of OUR player making the Cavs better?
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Man, if Cleveland had only taken Valuncinias last year and/or admitted they made a mistake on Thompson and selected Thomas Robinson last year. They could move Varejao for Bradley and start to mold themselves into a real team.
I'm not as down on Waiters as most people seem to be. He looks lost at times and is terribly inconsistent, but he has elite-level range on that shot of his and should be able to mold into a pretty electric scorer (maybe best suited for a 6th man role?)
Even being the optimist i am on Waiters, the idea of an Irving/Bradley backourt and a Robinson/Verejo frontcourt sounds like a GMs wet dream. Great mix of youth, defense, energy, and skill. Add a veteran presence at the 3 to help Irving/Varejao out with the leadership duties and you've got a playoff team ontop of a terrific youth movement.
why are yall salivating over the idea of OUR player making the Cavs better?
I bet its because they enjoy watching professional basketball in any form, as well as rooting for the Celtics as a 'home team'.
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I'm not sure I'm willing to trade the salary to match Varejao and Walton. We're talking 14.5M. I'd trade Bass and Lee for Varejao and Casspi/Miles and honestly I wouldn't mind taking on Walton as dead weight but I couldn't stomach shipping out Green or some combination of our rookies to make the salaries match for Walton.
I'm sure Cleveland wouldn't be down to trade Varejao and Walton for Green and picks anyways. That's the equivalent of trading Varejao for picks and dumping waltons expiring for a bad contract
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I'm not sure I'm willing to trade the salary to match Varejao and Walton. We're talking 14.5M. I'd trade Bass and Lee for Varejao and Casspi/Miles and honestly I wouldn't mind taking on Walton as dead weight but I couldn't stomach shipping out Green or some combination of our rookies to make the salaries match for Walton.
I'm sure Cleveland wouldn't be down to trade Varejao and Walton for Green and picks anyways. That's the equivalent of trading Varejao for picks and dumping one bad contract for another.
Walton isn't a bad contract. It is an expiring contract.
I think the deal with Cleveland, would actually be using either their cap space, or Walton's expiring contract, with perhaps a draft pick, for Jeff Green, with a third team sending the C's someone else (Utah, Atlanta, etc.).
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I'm not sure I'm willing to trade the salary to match Varejao and Walton. We're talking 14.5M. I'd trade Bass and Lee for Varejao and Casspi/Miles and honestly I wouldn't mind taking on Walton as dead weight but I couldn't stomach shipping out Green or some combination of our rookies to make the salaries match for Walton.
I'm sure Cleveland wouldn't be down to trade Varejao and Walton for Green and picks anyways. That's the equivalent of trading Varejao for picks and dumping one bad contract for another.
Walton isn't a bad contract. It is an expiring contract.
I think the deal with Cleveland, would actually be using either their cap space, or Walton's expiring contract, with perhaps a draft pick, for Jeff Green, with a third team sending the C's someone else (Utah, Atlanta, etc.).
Trade Green for walton's expiring and a pick.