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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: OhioGreen on November 19, 2012, 07:19:43 AM

Title: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: OhioGreen on November 19, 2012, 07:19:43 AM
I mean a guy who you could count on every game to go out and get 10,12,14 boards almost every single game. It's really a rhetorical question.  My point is, you can't win playing small ball without good rebounding.  Somebody that when the shot goes up, either it's going in, or your guy is getting it and starting the break.  Faster, younger, more athletic players do you absolutely no good when you're walking the ball up!!!  In half court offense you don't want to be playing a bunch of little guys.(all right not little exactly)!  Go big in half court, and small when you want to get out and run!  End of rant! ;D
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 19, 2012, 07:45:41 AM
I feel your pain. All I ever heard growing up playing youth BB, Box OUT  !!! REBOUND !!! screamed at me by everyone including my mother  :-X   Never give up on any play till the ball is through the hoop.

I See where the Lakers are rebuilding from ....the Center out,  they start with getting the best center and add players. Good bigs are important to clean up the missed shots for second chance opportunities. Like Sully tries to do for us, he is one non -jumper doing all he can do .  Rondo, Bradley and Lee STEAL a few rebounds from bigs which would be great if we had some rebounding bigs .

If you build a a team with short players , they better be mean and tuff rebounders...  like Milsap.



Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: alajet on November 19, 2012, 07:57:46 AM
Well, currently there are 20 players in NBA that average 9.0+ rpg, so, it's not like NBA is full of these players.
Only Utah (Jefferson & Millsap) and Lakers (Howard & Gasol) have two players in the list. 
12 teams (Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Indiana, Milwaukee, Minnesota, New Orleans, New York, Orlando, Philadelphia, Toronto, Washington) have zero players with at least 9.0 rpg.

Off those 12 teams, the team with the worst best rebounder is Toronto (Amir Johnson, 6.3 rpg). Washington comes second close (Emeka Okafor, 7.0 rpg) and Boston is third (Kevin Garnett, 7.7 rpg).
Yet, in the rebounding differential stats, Toronto is 25th and Washington is 27th in NBA, while Boston is dead last.
In the very same stat category, Indiana is 3rd and Minnesota is 5th, despite without having anyone over 9.0 rpg, too.

Numbers look confusing a bit, but all I can say about is that it's a team's job to be a better rebounding team. It's not like we're a team of midgets, but when you move KG to C, and expect Bass to have an impact on the boards, it's an unavoidable result that we lose the inside battle.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 19, 2012, 08:59:50 AM
I want to make a comparison with our bigs from 2008 (the 17th title) and right now...

KG averaged 9
Perk averaged 6
PJ Brown, Powe and BBD averaged 3  each in 11, 11 and 13 minutes respectively.
Add Pierces', he gets 5 a game

Those are solid numbers combined for our froncourt.

This year our bigs goes like this.

Bass averaged 5 a game
KG gets 7
Sully gets 4 in 17 minutes
Wilcox gets 2
Paul gets 6

So that 29 boards total for our bigs in 2008, 24 total this year, 5 extra possesions. We won the championship when our bigs are averagin 29 boards a game, I doubt we will if our bigs get 24 a night.

Rebounds are important.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Chris on November 19, 2012, 09:04:52 AM
Well, part of the problem is the C's system isn't conducive to having a prolific rebounder.  If they are playing defense correctly, it pulls bigs away from the basket a lot, and requires them to rebound as a team.

That's not to say having a quality rebounder wouldn't help matters.  But this teams problems have a lot more to do with team execution, than the lack of an individual. 
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Fafnir on November 19, 2012, 09:06:03 AM
KG his first year was a great rebounder. His activity and impact on the glass were even greater than his raw totals would indicate. (he tipped a lot of balls out that weren't "rebounds" but went to the C's)
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: mgent on November 19, 2012, 09:36:28 AM
We have one, Rondo.  He's more than great.  Elite at his position, if not the best.

Powe was so underrated it's not even funny.  Had the strength, but it was the way he used his body that made him special.  Just simply unmovable down there.  The things he did on the offensive glass are sadly missed.

As for great defensive rebounders look no further than KG.  Nothing like he was in his prime leading the league, but he's still near the top (i think 13th last year, 7th this year), and just as good as he was in '08.  Should continue to rise the ranks by playing center exclusively, and is easily the 3rd best defensive rebounder there (behind Varejao and Dwight).
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Chris on November 19, 2012, 09:36:35 AM
KG his first year was a great rebounder. His activity and impact on the glass were even greater than his raw totals would indicate. (he tipped a lot of balls out that weren't "rebounds" but went to the C's)

Right.  But he was still averaging more than 3 rebounds less per game than his previous season in Minnesota.  Great rebounder or not, the system needs the whole team to pitch in.  And that has not been happening consistently since 2008.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Fafnir on November 19, 2012, 09:40:22 AM
KG his first year was a great rebounder. His activity and impact on the glass were even greater than his raw totals would indicate. (he tipped a lot of balls out that weren't "rebounds" but went to the C's)

Right.  But he was still averaging more than 3 rebounds less per game than his previous season in Minnesota.  Great rebounder or not, the system needs the whole team to pitch in.  And that has not been happening consistently since 2008.
He played nearly 7 minutes per game less for Boston. Most of his decline was minutes and superior defensive rebounding teammates. I don't think the C's defensive system effects things that much.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Q_FBE on November 19, 2012, 09:40:50 AM
My guess is Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish. DJ was an outstanding Rebouneder for a 2 guard.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: scaryjerry on November 19, 2012, 09:45:43 AM
KG was the best rebounder for like 10 years straight in Minnesota....but they were empty stats..hes been an average rebounder since he came here
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: mgent on November 19, 2012, 09:56:35 AM
KG his first year was a great rebounder. His activity and impact on the glass were even greater than his raw totals would indicate. (he tipped a lot of balls out that weren't "rebounds" but went to the C's)

Right.  But he was still averaging more than 3 rebounds less per game than his previous season in Minnesota.  Great rebounder or not, the system needs the whole team to pitch in.  And that has not been happening consistently since 2008.
He played nearly 7 minutes per game less for Boston. Most of his decline was minutes and superior defensive rebounding teammates. I don't think the C's defensive system effects things that much.
Definitely this.

All you have to do is look at what our perimeter players did compared to theirs.  And realize the fact that Marc Blount was their second best rebounder.  KG was bringing up the ball for those teams, that's how little trust he had in his teammates.  He felt he needed to be in position for every single board or they lose the game.  Why get out position to play more defense and force a miss if they don't get the ball anyway?

Also probably helps that the team he came to had a sloth-like pace and ended up dead last in FGA and 3rd in FGA allowed (Minny was 24th in FGA allowed).
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: ballin on November 20, 2012, 03:00:50 AM
We have one, Rondo.  He's more than great.  Elite at his position, if not the best.

Powe was so underrated it's not even funny.  Had the strength, but it was the way he used his body that made him special.  Just simply unmovable down there.  The things he did on the offensive glass are sadly missed.

As for great defensive rebounders look no further than KG.  Nothing like he was in his prime leading the league, but he's still near the top (i think 13th last year, 7th this year), and just as good as he was in '08.  Should continue to rise the ranks by playing center exclusively, and is easily the 3rd best defensive rebounder there (behind Varejao and Dwight).

If it makes you feel any better, I appreciated what Powe was doing pre-injury. His numbers, on a per-minute basis, were absolutely insane. I know it sounds crazy, but when he was actually in the game he was outplaying all-stars. His 20 point outburst in the finals? Didn't shock me that he played great, the only thing that shocked me was that Doc gave him enough minutes to let him shine.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: fitzhickey on November 20, 2012, 03:15:17 AM
Scot pollard was alright at rebounding, he averaged 10 a game I think
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 20, 2012, 03:44:49 PM
My guess is Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish. DJ was an outstanding Rebouneder for a 2 guard.

??   So you are saying DJ was not a POINT GUARD?
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on November 20, 2012, 05:46:57 PM
Leon Powe...!
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on November 20, 2012, 05:51:01 PM
Bass is actually the perfect build of a rebonder, those shoulders are as wide as Texas, he is strong, and  savvy, he SHOULD be in there getting that dern ball...sully also.....it is docs system, and if you lived here in MA, you would have seen / read the direct quotes from DOC that he has NO desire for rebounds, and only wants the guys to turn and run.....run away....from the "O" rebound.....THAT is the signature of a guy who will not learn something he should already know.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 20, 2012, 06:07:31 PM
Quote
Leon Powe...!

Get real 10 RBG and above is a great rebounder.  Bird and Parrish were our lack great rebounders.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on November 20, 2012, 06:13:50 PM
Imagine if Kenneth Faried fell to us instead of Jajuan Johnson...  We probably wouldn't have Lee now, but I'd love me some Manimal right now.  Dude's a stud.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: moiso on November 20, 2012, 06:21:56 PM
Danny Fortson.  My favorite Celtics rebounder of all time.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 20, 2012, 07:03:47 PM
Bass is actually the perfect build of a rebonder, those shoulders are as wide as Texas, he is strong, and  savvy, he SHOULD be in there getting that dern ball...sully also.....it is docs system, and if you lived here in MA, you would have seen / read the direct quotes from DOC that he has NO desire for rebounds, and only wants the guys to turn and run.....run away....from the "O" rebound.....THAT is the signature of a guy who will not learn something he should already know.
[/b]

That, or he thinks his system works.  1 championship, 1 Finals game 7 and 1 ECF game 7 in 5 years.  He has an arguement.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: ManUp on November 20, 2012, 07:10:11 PM
KG pre-injury.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 20, 2012, 07:40:12 PM
My guess is Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish. DJ was an outstanding Rebouneder for a 2 guard.

??   So you are saying DJ was not a POINT GUARD?

I'd say DJ was a great defender before I'd say he was a great rebounder -- but he was darn good at just about everything. He remade himself multiple times in his career based pn the needs of his team. 
He was a 2-guard and a scorer before Boston. At Boston he did play PG and was a distributor more than a scorer on offense, but he also played with Danny who could distribute and Larry Bird who was as good a passer as there has ever been.   DJ did play PG in Boston but with an unconventional team around him.  Not sure that he ever led the C's in assists (maybe he did, but I am sure he didn't every year).  Ainge, Bird and DJ all had comparable assists numbers.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Birdman on November 20, 2012, 08:45:17 PM
This is why I was hoping Kenneth Faried would fall to us a couple of years ago. Alot of ppl didnt think he would be any good b/c he played at Morehead but i knew he would make it. Still cant believe he drop to 22nd in the draft.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: More Banners on November 20, 2012, 09:12:38 PM
Sorry to mention the name, but it was probably Antoine.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on November 20, 2012, 09:22:26 PM
Bass is actually the perfect build of a rebonder, those shoulders are as wide as Texas, he is strong, and  savvy, he SHOULD be in there getting that dern ball...sully also.....it is docs system, and if you lived here in MA, you would have seen / read the direct quotes from DOC that he has NO desire for rebounds, and only wants the guys to turn and run.....run away....from the "O" rebound.....THAT is the signature of a guy who will not learn something he should already know.
[/b]

That, or he thinks his system works.  1 championship, 1 Finals game 7 and 1 ECF game 7 in 5 years.  He has an arguement.

THAT, is not at all true, with the team he had Scalabrine could have coached it to a championship, besides, KG mostly ran the team anyway. The deal is how could he have gotten only ONE ring out of that lineup when the league was wide open for them to rule......!
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: More Banners on November 20, 2012, 09:26:27 PM
Bass is actually the perfect build of a rebonder, those shoulders are as wide as Texas, he is strong, and  savvy, he SHOULD be in there getting that dern ball...sully also.....it is docs system, and if you lived here in MA, you would have seen / read the direct quotes from DOC that he has NO desire for rebounds, and only wants the guys to turn and run.....run away....from the "O" rebound.....THAT is the signature of a guy who will not learn something he should already know.
[/b]

That, or he thinks his system works.  1 championship, 1 Finals game 7 and 1 ECF game 7 in 5 years.  He has an arguement.

THAT, is not at all true, with the team he had Scalabrine could have coached it to a championship, besides, KG mostly ran the team anyway. The deal is how could he have gotten only ONE ring out of that lineup when the league was wide open for them to rule......!

Nah, I think Scal will be a great coach when his time comes.

More like KC Jones.  The only way he wasn't getting a couple of chips as a coach would've been if he ran over Larry in the parking lot.

Doc's been coaching teams with 3-4 allstars.  They're supposed to win.  When he had only 1 allstar in his prime (pierce), the were outsiders to even make the playoffs.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Amonkey on November 20, 2012, 10:06:46 PM
Right around when Al Jefferson was traded, he was becoming a consistent rebounder and a terrific offensive threat. He is still doing some of that, but not as dominating and consistant as he was when he was with us.

How about this though... Mark Blount! I mean, for that one season where he was looking for a paycheck and was actually trying, he was an incredible rebounder. Didn't he have something like a 20+ game streak of 10 or more rebounds towards the end of that season? I also remember that he was the first Celtic player to have 20 points and 20 rebounds in a game since mid '90s.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Surferdad on November 22, 2012, 09:43:48 PM
Right around when Al Jefferson was traded, he was becoming a consistent rebounder and a terrific offensive threat. He is still doing some of that, but not as dominating and consistant as he was when he was with us.

How about this though... Mark Blount! I mean, for that one season where he was looking for a paycheck and was actually trying, he was an incredible rebounder. Didn't he have something like a 20+ game streak of 10 or more rebounds towards the end of that season? I also remember that he was the first Celtic player to have 20 points and 20 rebounds in a game since mid '90s.
I think I just felt the turkey and stuffing roll over in my stomach.
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: Rtpas11 on November 22, 2012, 11:26:23 PM
Leon Powe...!
Title: Re: When did the C's last have a great rebounder?
Post by: mgent on November 23, 2012, 12:08:32 AM
Quote
Leon Powe...!

Get real 10 RBG and above is a great rebounder.  Bird and Parrish were our lack great rebounders.
Get a clue, Powe was averaging 14 minutes, he would've got 10rpg as a starter.

Double digit rebounds are not the only indicator of a good rebounder, especially since we aren't playing the same pace of game as we were in the Bird and Parish days.

Leon might not have been among the top rebounders, but he was always one of the elite offensive rebounders and that's why he was great.