CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on November 18, 2012, 10:07:33 PM
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The more I look at this team, the less impressed I am. Seriously, we have one guy that is dominant (rondo) and I'm not sure he's anywhere dominant enough to carry a team for an entire year. Kg is fine player but he isn't dominant. Same for pp. Everyone else on the team is just a guy; no ability to dominate their own man, much less a game.
Over the past five years, this team has relied on execution and defense. Our defense is a shell of itself. Terry and lee are doing nothing to make us forget about ray. We have no inside game. We can't rebound.
Maybe they prove me wrong. I'm not on the ledge yet but I'm trying to look at everything objectively. They certainly need to do much much better.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
exactly how many times dis thread been made ova da past few years? lol
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
Im with you on that.
But Doc is really making me pull my hair with this small ball thing. He really has to stop that.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
This because this team had some times where I almost gave up and threw in the towel only for them to defy odds. I'm not done yet, but I am very very disappointed in their effort and them trying to play down to their competition.
Also DOC STOP THE SMALL BALL ALL THE TIME.
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The era first "ended" when KG blew out his knee, and it's ended every season since. I'm still enjoying the ride though.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
Seriously. I'm convinced all the complainers have never even watched the Celtics during the regular season before this year. We're such a bandwagon team its not even funny.
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Age of two of our superstars makes me believe the era is ending. Maybe Danny will make a trade that will give them a chance. It is all good though - they have been fun to watch.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
Im with you on that.
But Doc is really making me pull my hair with this small ball thing. He really has to stop that.
I really think Doc is still feeling out this roster. What we used to consider small ball is quickly turning into the NBA norm.
I can count the amount of true centers on one hand.
Our lineups looked small tongiht but Detroits lineup was even smaller.
Their "bigs" include Monroe (plays small for a center), Maxiel (6' 7") and Jerebko (no post game).
Drummond was the closest to a big guy they played and he played during the time when the Celtics were up.
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Yes ...Pierce and Garnet are Zombies.
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It's too early to say this. If we have played 30 games and it looks the same, ok, but not this soon. There are just too many new faces to say this team is done already.
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The era first "ended" when KG blew out his knee, and it's ended every season since. I'm still enjoying the ride though.
If you are talking about the era that the Celtics dominated the NBA, then yeah you are right.
Sometimes I feel cheated that we didnt get to see one more run with KG in his athletic primes.
Then I look back at these last 5 years and forget about it.
So yeah I am with you....enjoying the ride. Wouldnt be surprised if KG and Pierce got one more ring.
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Could be. I know I'm enjoying the ride as I've enjoyed the past 5 years.
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Could be, though honestly people are freaking out about the last game in a 4 in 5.
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Basically, KG is collecting his pension right now. He's getting paid on reputation and prayer that he'll be able to call it back when it's needed most.
But really, paying big cash to a guy that can only play 5 min spurts? It means we'll have our backup C playing against the opposing starter in every game. So we need a starting-quality center to back up KG (and don't, and won't) just to be able to compete. I'm sorry, but we're at a disadvantage in the paint in every game because of KG.
Pierce...a big shot taker and maker, but not so much a creator any more. His footwork is still so awesome that he'll get some points, but he's not exactly a guaranteed bucket-or-free throw guy any more that can stop an opponent's run at will. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had these scoring droughts for the past couple of years.
So those are two pretty big declines from the title form, and we have nothing to really compensate except for Rondo and a stable of quicker, more athletic (but not necessarily better) journeymen than we've had in the past.
We're loaded with talent, but the top of the rotation is only 1/3 of what it used to be, that is: we have one sure allstar.
This is a group that I could see coming together in a crazy magical way to run to the title, but more than likely Danny will be working the phones to death between Jan 15th and the trade deadline to arrange the blockbuster that adds to the top of the roster.
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Basically, KG is collecting his pension right now. He's getting paid on reputation and prayer that he'll be able to call it back when it's needed most.
But really, paying big cash to a guy that can only play 5 min spurts? It means we'll have our backup C playing against the opposing starter in every game. So we need a starting-quality center to back up KG (and don't, and won't) just to be able to compete. I'm sorry, but we're at a disadvantage in the paint in every game because of KG.
Pierce...a big shot taker and maker, but not so much a creator any more. His footwork is still so awesome that he'll get some points, but he's not exactly a guaranteed bucket-or-free throw guy any more that can stop an opponent's run at will. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had these scoring droughts for the past couple of years.
So those are two pretty big declines from the title form, and we have nothing to really compensate except for Rondo and a stable of quicker, more athletic (but not necessarily better) journeymen than we've had in the past.
We're loaded with talent, but the top of the rotation is only 1/3 of what it used to be, that is: we have one sure allstar.
This is a group that I could see coming together in a crazy magical way to run to the title, but more than likely Danny will be working the phones to death between Jan 15th and the trade deadline to arrange the blockbuster that adds to the top of the roster.
Great post. TP for you.
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Basically, KG is collecting his pension right now. He's getting paid on reputation and prayer that he'll be able to call it back when it's needed most.
But really, paying big cash to a guy that can only play 5 min spurts? It means we'll have our backup C playing against the opposing starter in every game. So we need a starting-quality center to back up KG (and don't, and won't) just to be able to compete. I'm sorry, but we're at a disadvantage in the paint in every game because of KG.
Pierce...a big shot taker and maker, but not so much a creator any more. His footwork is still so awesome that he'll get some points, but he's not exactly a guaranteed bucket-or-free throw guy any more that can stop an opponent's run at will. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had these scoring droughts for the past couple of years.
So those are two pretty big declines from the title form, and we have nothing to really compensate except for Rondo and a stable of quicker, more athletic (but not necessarily better) journeymen than we've had in the past.
We're loaded with talent, but the top of the rotation is only 1/3 of what it used to be, that is: we have one sure allstar.
This is a group that I could see coming together in a crazy magical way to run to the title, but more than likely Danny will be working the phones to death between Jan 15th and the trade deadline to arrange the blockbuster that adds to the top of the roster.
Great post. TP for you.
I totally agree not enough talent at the top.
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Nope.
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GMTA check out this post
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=60470.msg1330434#msg1330434
More people are getting to this point..
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Basically, KG is collecting his pension right now. He's getting paid on reputation and prayer that he'll be able to call it back when it's needed most.
But really, paying big cash to a guy that can only play 5 min spurts? It means we'll have our backup C playing against the opposing starter in every game. So we need a starting-quality center to back up KG (and don't, and won't) just to be able to compete. I'm sorry, but we're at a disadvantage in the paint in every game because of KG.
KG's playing 28 minutes a game. If he was giving us the same production for 36 minutes it would be 19/10 and he was 2nd team all-defense last year. So KG for another 8 minutes a game would easily be a max player, he's not overpaid for the 28 a game.
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KG may be an all star this year now that there are 3 front court players with no specification for center.
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I don't think so.
We are lucky that D Rose is still out in Chicago.
KG is still doing what he did last year and by the end of the year he'll be beasting in the playoffs and controlling the game with his defense.
Rondo just gets better. Pierce hasn't regressed too much. We need Bass to get better.
I think Terry and Lee are sitting at about 75% and 60% of what they're capable of offensively.
Jeff Green is at about 40%.
It always looks bleak at this time of the year. Remember last season? And the season before? See how close we came to beating Miami? I know they're better but if we had Ray instead of Terry and Lee people would just have another argument for their 'old guys' theory.
We have 8 new players on a team that is going to use 10 players throughout the season. The defense is the most important thing and that is still being worked out. We have excellent defenders. Think about the defense we have:
KG
Rondo
Bradley
Green
Lee
Collins
Darko
Once they get the rotations down and hit some cohesion we will be a mighty team with a very deep, talented roster.
I think we're going to see some rookies and a young guy moved in a trade because we do need interior help on defense for KG.
But this to me is the strongest team since Shaq was starting, and we are even deeper.
We have a roster that once it clicks and gets firing will be a legitimate threat to win the Eastern Conference.
I'm just not sure anyone can beat the Lakers with their size and skill. I think the Grizzlies are very strong too and if we face either of them we are screwed without an All Star big.
Again, think of last year and how horrid and out of shape, washed up and 'aged' both Pierce and KG looked.
I've said it dozens of times but a roster with this many new role players and young guys is going to take a good 30-40 games to even start to look good.
Just keep the faith and remember that we are probably so stacked at the two because we are going to trade for a big man at some point- which will make this tough team a title contender.
Whatever happens I'm down and I've got Danny, Doc and KG's back 10000000%.
Go you %*($&*@!#%$ Celtics go.
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I just wanna see a big get a semi decent post game again..... then us go after him.
If He turns out could you imagine a Monroe Drummond front court for detroit in the future, Monroe is already a freak and Drummon is athletic as all hell (that being said so is McGee) Those guys get a good offensive game..... Game over
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Basically, KG is collecting his pension right now. He's getting paid on reputation and prayer that he'll be able to call it back when it's needed most.
But really, paying big cash to a guy that can only play 5 min spurts? It means we'll have our backup C playing against the opposing starter in every game. So we need a starting-quality center to back up KG (and don't, and won't) just to be able to compete. I'm sorry, but we're at a disadvantage in the paint in every game because of KG.
Pierce...a big shot taker and maker, but not so much a creator any more. His footwork is still so awesome that he'll get some points, but he's not exactly a guaranteed bucket-or-free throw guy any more that can stop an opponent's run at will. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had these scoring droughts for the past couple of years.
So those are two pretty big declines from the title form, and we have nothing to really compensate except for Rondo and a stable of quicker, more athletic (but not necessarily better) journeymen than we've had in the past.
We're loaded with talent, but the top of the rotation is only 1/3 of what it used to be, that is: we have one sure allstar.
This is a group that I could see coming together in a crazy magical way to run to the title, but more than likely Danny will be working the phones to death between Jan 15th and the trade deadline to arrange the blockbuster that adds to the top of the roster.
I don't think there is a contending team in the NBA that wouldn't pay KG more than 10 million to be their defensive anchor. He's great in the regular season but guys are paid to show up in the playoffs. He can still guard multiple positions and without him we'd be lucky to give the Cavs a challenge for the 8th seed.
KG has never failed us, I can't see why he would now, he's not physically impaired. He doesn't carry weight around to hurt his knees. He's got plenty of tread on those tyres and he's worth every penny of the 10 million. He's given us a home court discount at 10 million too.
To say we're at a disadvantage with KG in the paint is 100% garbage. His playoffs last year were incredible and he was getting dirty, defending the paint and manipulating the paint on offense and defense every single game. Unless you're implying that he needs help in there- because he does. Bass just isn't cutting it and Danny knows this. KG doesn't finish top 5 in defensive player of the year voting because he's a liability in the paint.
Put Josh Smith next to him and we are a title contender.
I can't believe I read that and people are agreeing with it lol.
This team is nothing without KG in the paint on offense and defense.
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Basically, KG is collecting his pension right now. He's getting paid on reputation and prayer that he'll be able to call it back when it's needed most.
But really, paying big cash to a guy that can only play 5 min spurts? It means we'll have our backup C playing against the opposing starter in every game. So we need a starting-quality center to back up KG (and don't, and won't) just to be able to compete. I'm sorry, but we're at a disadvantage in the paint in every game because of KG.
Pierce...a big shot taker and maker, but not so much a creator any more. His footwork is still so awesome that he'll get some points, but he's not exactly a guaranteed bucket-or-free throw guy any more that can stop an opponent's run at will. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had these scoring droughts for the past couple of years.
So those are two pretty big declines from the title form, and we have nothing to really compensate except for Rondo and a stable of quicker, more athletic (but not necessarily better) journeymen than we've had in the past.
We're loaded with talent, but the top of the rotation is only 1/3 of what it used to be, that is: we have one sure allstar.
This is a group that I could see coming together in a crazy magical way to run to the title, but more than likely Danny will be working the phones to death between Jan 15th and the trade deadline to arrange the blockbuster that adds to the top of the roster.
I don't think there is a contending team in the NBA that wouldn't pay KG more than 10 million to be their defensive anchor. He's great in the regular season but guys are paid to show up in the playoffs.
KG has never failed us, I can't see why he would now, he's not physically impaired. He doesn't carry weight around to hurt his knees. He's got plenty of tread on those tyres and he's worth every penny of the 10 million. He's given us a home court discount at 10 million too.
I always wonder what would've happened if KG had joined the Lakers and not us. Kobe and him would probably be sitting around the house with a handful of rings by now, laughing and sharing jokes. Heck, we could be looking at a mini dynasty if (if, if, if... I know) not for that [danged] knee. In a way, KG should be in every MVP talk. I know Rajon's the Man now but without KG, we don't go.
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Hey, I love KG too, but when he's on the bench and the other team's starter is still out there, it's our bench against their best. That's a disadvantage any way you slice it.
I love KG when he's out there, but if he can't play a starter's schedule/minutes, that's a problem.
Maybe the problem is just with Doc.
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Hey, I love KG too, but when he's on the bench and the other team's starter is still out there, it's our bench against their best. That's a disadvantage any way you slice it.
I love KG when he's out there, but if he can't play a starter's schedule/minutes, that's a problem.
Maybe the problem is just with Doc.
29 minutes a game isn't terribly low for a center in the nba. He's only playing 3-4 minutes a game fewer than he was in 07-08.
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Celtics just live or die by the jump shot. With KG on the Bench and Paul Pierce struggling from the field . Its gonna be hard to beat anybody.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
exactly how many times dis thread been made ova da past few years? lol
Welcome to the Boston Celtics, ladies an gentlemen, where 20 years of losing have made it a success story to lose in the ECF.
The end of this era happened a long time ago, we´re just in denial.
I bet when the Lakers win #18 before us, people on here will tell you that "it´s not the end of the world" and "titles are overrated, anyway".
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Celtics just live or die by the jump shot. With KG on the Bench and Paul Pierce struggling from the field . Its gonna be hard to beat anybody.
...no
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Of course this team is. KG and Pierce are at the ends of their careers.
Doesn't mean they can't go out with a bang. I have little doubt this team will pick up the pace come playoff time. They will be a threat to any top team.
I just don't see enough improvement with what was added and subtracted to get past Miami if they are healthy. The Celtics team will match up just fine if Bosh or Wade is out (and would have an advantage if Lebron is out) just like last year. But when all three are there playing like they did last year in the playoffs, the Celtics become a real long shot against them (possible, but a major upset)
So unless a role player really steps up his game to a level they have never played (special need down low) or the Celtics turn some of that depth into a major single player upgrade, this teams likely ceiling might just be lower then we want (or expect at the moment)
And yes, AB's return is a huge help, but not enough to shift the odds enough to the Celtics advantage.
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And this has nothing to do with last nights game. I just haven't seen anything to this point from the players (not looking at Rondo, Pierce and KG because we expect them to play a lot better come playoffs) that shows the team will be better then last year.
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Hey, I love KG too, but when he's on the bench and the other team's starter is still out there, it's our bench against their best. That's a disadvantage any way you slice it.
I love KG when he's out there, but if he can't play a starter's schedule/minutes, that's a problem.
Maybe the problem is just with Doc.
29 minutes a game isn't terribly low for a center in the nba. He's only playing 3-4 minutes a game fewer than he was in 07-08.
It's not so much the number of minutes or quality of play that I'm concerned about.
Again, it's that playing him in short spurts means we match our backup against their starter.
I feel I'm repeating myself. Does nobody else see this as a problem- having to play career journeymen backup bigs against opposing starters every game while KG rests?
In any case, we really, really look a lot like the '91 team.
I wonder why Danny didn't pull the trigger on those trades last year for the old three like Young Danny said he would've. Wisdom, I suppose.
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?? that happened last season...we've been slowly transitioning to the rondo era..youre just realizing this?
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Right now this team is AWFUL! Watching them pass the ball is painful, sometimes I feel like I'm watching a special ed team. Their defense is bad, but their offense is so bad I can't watch it. I do think they will get better but right now they are playing horrible.
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Of course this team is. KG and Pierce are at the ends of their careers.
Doesn't mean they can't go out with a bang. I have little doubt this team will pick up the pace come playoff time. They will be a threat to any top team.
I just don't see enough improvement with what was added and subtracted to get past Miami if they are healthy. The Celtics team will match up just fine if Bosh or Wade is out (and would have an advantage if Lebron is out) just like last year. But when all three are there playing like they did last year in the playoffs, the Celtics become a real long shot against them (possible, but a major upset)
So unless a role player really steps up his game to a level they have never played (special need down low) or the Celtics turn some of that depth into a major single player upgrade, this teams likely ceiling might just be lower then we want (or expect at the moment)
And yes, AB's return is a huge help, but not enough to shift the odds enough to the Celtics advantage.
We should be significantly better at shooting guard and every single bench position. I think your prognosis is a little on the gloomy side.
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Seriously, what is wrong with some fans?
These are the same people that were calling for Danny to blow it up last season at the All-Star break ... they then conspicuously disappear when the team is doing well, then as soon as a bad loss comes up they reappear and gloat and act smug.
It really irritates me. You are entitled to your opinion and all, but it almost feels like some fans only exist to troll these boards when something bad happens, then they disappear when the good things happen.
There have been, what, 2 seasons now that this team started off slow then came back strong?
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Of course this team is. KG and Pierce are at the ends of their careers.
Doesn't mean they can't go out with a bang. I have little doubt this team will pick up the pace come playoff time. They will be a threat to any top team.
I just don't see enough improvement with what was added and subtracted to get past Miami if they are healthy. The Celtics team will match up just fine if Bosh or Wade is out (and would have an advantage if Lebron is out) just like last year. But when all three are there playing like they did last year in the playoffs, the Celtics become a real long shot against them (possible, but a major upset)
So unless a role player really steps up his game to a level they have never played (special need down low) or the Celtics turn some of that depth into a major single player upgrade, this teams likely ceiling might just be lower then we want (or expect at the moment)
And yes, AB's return is a huge help, but not enough to shift the odds enough to the Celtics advantage.
We should be significantly better at shooting guard and every single bench position. I think your prognosis is a little on the gloomy side.
It is not gloomy.
We hope the SG is much better, but it hasn't been yet.
We hope the bench is better, but it hasn't been yet.
But this also ignores the fact that the Heat have improved both at SG and off the bench. At best, the Celtics have kept pace.
I am hoping the Celtics are keeping the realistic view of the league. Yes, the Celtics have an outside shot at beating a healthy Heat. Yes, the Celtics have some depth.
But outside of Rondo, this team has not build around blocks. They have young players with nice upsides (Sullinger, AB and Melo) and would be good to top role players on good teams. They have some good role players that are young, but look like they have maxed out on their talent. (Green, Lee and Bass)
I have no issue the Celtics making a move to improve Rondo's, KG's and Pierce's chances to lead this team to one more title.
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Looks like Allen knew when to run. Averaging 12 and 51% with Miami. His minutes are down where they should be. Taking less money but likely to be a big winner this season. We have a respectable Team. Bradley could very well change our fortunes with his energy. We have been reaching end of era's since the Bird days. Except for this mini run we've had no stability. Danny's Snake Oil is past expiration.
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Our weakest fscet is not the scoring; its the defense. We are getting killed down low. The enemy is being allowed 2,3, 4 chancesof getting their offensive rebounds, and that will take its toll in every game. The other day they got about 17 offensive rebounds in a game we lost. How can the other team get a lot of rebounds consistently and ours can fit in a hand. Looks like Sully, who can hardly lift his feet off the ground is the only one that sometimes tries to get an o. rebound?
Our other gross weakness. Again on defense, the middle of our territory looks like the Steepes. Wide isolated grounds where the enemy can pass through unopposed. No clogging of the middleground- we seem to have cement feet.
PP has slowed down noticeably. He still has the big heart, and he still can get his own shot and he is still our best player; yet he is a shadow of what he was once and he cannot play like he once did. He cannot guard or wont go out to guard a 3 point shooter; he cannot keep up with a fast enemy and he loses too many balls trying to drive thru traffic. Still, he is our heart.
Unless we trade for srong PFs or 5s that can clog the middle and can rebound with the best, we can only expect to make the playoffs and make an early exit. 2 flags in 27 years is more than what 70%+ of the teams have accomplished. Yes, our one season era has passed. So be it.
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One thing that I have learned in the past 3 seasons...
I will never...ever...ever count this team out. Ever.
Got it?
Good.
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Of course this team is. KG and Pierce are at the ends of their careers.
Doesn't mean they can't go out with a bang. I have little doubt this team will pick up the pace come playoff time. They will be a threat to any top team.
I just don't see enough improvement with what was added and subtracted to get past Miami if they are healthy. The Celtics team will match up just fine if Bosh or Wade is out (and would have an advantage if Lebron is out) just like last year. But when all three are there playing like they did last year in the playoffs, the Celtics become a real long shot against them (possible, but a major upset)
So unless a role player really steps up his game to a level they have never played (special need down low) or the Celtics turn some of that depth into a major single player upgrade, this teams likely ceiling might just be lower then we want (or expect at the moment)
And yes, AB's return is a huge help, but not enough to shift the odds enough to the Celtics advantage.
We should be significantly better at shooting guard and every single bench position. I think your prognosis is a little on the gloomy side.
It is not gloomy.
We hope the SG is much better, but it hasn't been yet.
We hope the bench is better, but it hasn't been yet.
But this also ignores the fact that the Heat have improved both at SG and off the bench. At best, the Celtics have kept pace.
Seriously? Aside from Ray (who started half the games after Bradley went out) we didn't have a single bench player average as much as 4 points a game. You don't see Terry/Lee/Green/Sully/Wilcox as significantly better than Dooling/Pietrus/Steamer/Hollins (when Pietrus and Steamer are playing poorly due to injuries)?
And Bradley hasn't played yet, but are you expecting him to be significantly worse than he was last year?
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Seriously, what is wrong with some fans?
These are the same people that were calling for Danny to blow it up last season at the All-Star break ... they then conspicuously disappear when the team is doing well, then as soon as a bad loss comes up they reappear and gloat and act smug.
It really irritates me. You are entitled to your opinion and all, but it almost feels like some fans only exist to troll these boards when something bad happens, then they disappear when the good things happen.
In case you´re talking about me:
There were no good things. People were fooling themselves, and I had no interest in arguing with them anymore after half a year of reading nonsense about how good this team allegedly is. As far as I´m concerned, this team achieved exactly what I (and my magical sources) predicted. I`ve lost my faith in this team quite some time ago, and never regained it.
I´m waiting for the blow-up, and then I´m right back to cheer for the youngsters.
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Of course the "era" is ending. But the era of Pierce and Kg. Its obvious they are old. That doesnt mean a new "era" cant start. You seem to emphasis a point where no one on the team can dominate their opponent but you forget that this is a TEAM and in the end when chemistry rolls at its highest this TEAM should be dominate against opponents when it matters.