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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: vinnie on November 18, 2012, 10:04:37 PM

Title: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: vinnie on November 18, 2012, 10:04:37 PM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 18, 2012, 10:12:14 PM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: Greenbean on November 18, 2012, 10:14:46 PM
Lol. Crappy effort tonight.

That being said, I am not counting this team out.

They can easily figure out the defense and they have shown me flashed that they can be a really good team.

3 storylines worth following as I watch this team develop:

1. Can Sully continue to improve and turn into a 10 and 8 player as a rookie?
2. Can these new players figure out the Celtics "way" on defense and return this team to the top 5 in defensive fg % where it has lived in the past 6 seasons?
3. Can we shore up the defensive rebounding issue?

For number 2, I expect the return of Avery Bradley to have a HUGE effect, just like it did last year when he was placed in the starting lineup.

For 1 and 3, I am not so sure....but again, I will never count this team, this coach, and this core group of competitive players out.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: vinnie on November 18, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.

But I thought they got much younger and added tremendous depth this year?
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: Greenbean on November 18, 2012, 10:17:44 PM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.

While you are right that this was a brutal stretch, this team is not old anymore...and I dont think that fact is a positive.

They have 3 "old" contributors, Pierce, KG, and Terry. The rest of the team is young.

Veterans know how to slow a game down and stay competitive. Young teams play awful when they are tired.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: BballTim on November 18, 2012, 10:18:15 PM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.

  4th game in 5 nights, 7 games in 10 nights. Games like this happen in the nba, and not just to the Celts.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: Greenbean on November 18, 2012, 10:19:43 PM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.

But I thought they got much younger and added tremendous depth this year?

Exactly...there will be growing pains with this overhauled roster. I do share your frustrations though...I have set the bar pretty low for this group for the first half of the season. If they look this shakey in the 2nd half I will be shocked.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: vinnie on November 18, 2012, 10:28:52 PM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.

  4th game in 5 nights, 7 games in 10 nights. Games like this happen in the nba, and not just to the Celts.

I don't think 20-point losses to the worst team the league should ever happen. Toronto won this afternoon after playing yesterday afternoon.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 18, 2012, 10:31:24 PM
and we don't need to trade for younger SUPER STARS ?
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: BballTim on November 18, 2012, 10:49:01 PM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.

  4th game in 5 nights, 7 games in 10 nights. Games like this happen in the nba, and not just to the Celts.

I don't think 20-point losses to the worst team the league should ever happen. Toronto won this afternoon after playing yesterday afternoon.

  Whether you think it should ever happen or not you've obviously been watching games long enough to know that they do. And Toronto had 3 games off before Saturday, they weren't 1 game removed from a back to back.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: vinnie on November 18, 2012, 11:26:10 PM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.

  4th game in 5 nights, 7 games in 10 nights. Games like this happen in the nba, and not just to the Celts.

I don't think 20-point losses to the worst team the league should ever happen. Toronto won this afternoon after playing yesterday afternoon.

  Whether you think it should ever happen or not you've obviously been watching games long enough to know that they do. And Toronto had 3 games off before Saturday, they weren't 1 game removed from a back to back.

So since the Pistons were playing their 6th game in 10 days, and their 8th in 13 days, shouldn't they have been equally exhausted tonight?
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: kg is king on November 18, 2012, 11:37:59 PM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.

But I thought they got much younger and added tremendous depth this year?
Yep, but sadly they're not our core players. All this talk about getting younger and more athletic is just all talk. Sure we acquired/signed/drafted younger players. But they're all reserves. In the NBA you win with stars, not reserves. Sadly, our stars outside of Rondo are all past their prime.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: mctyson on November 19, 2012, 11:13:48 AM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.

But I thought they got much younger and added tremendous depth this year?

Last night was the type of game Doc had to throw the playbook out the window on.  You could see that they simply weren't matching Detroit's energy.  I thought Pierce was horrendous.  Rondo was worse.

Sometimes you have to throw it out.  Bench Rondo.  Bench Pierce.  Play Barbosa/Lee/Terry/Green, Sullinger, and KG.

We have to understand that Rondo and Pierce have experienced every season since 2008.  They know that this team can turn it on when it wants to, and that games in November don't matter.  And the truth is, games in November don't matter.  Hell, games in February barely matter.  So long as you are .500 in the NBA you make the playoffs.  Rondo and Pierce know this, that's why they throw up stinkers and really don't care.  I don't blame them.

I blame Doc, though.  Sometimes you have to send the message that, yes...EVERY GAME matters.  Even if you lose in the end, the game matters.  So put in people who will play like it.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: BballTim on November 19, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.

  4th game in 5 nights, 7 games in 10 nights. Games like this happen in the nba, and not just to the Celts.

I don't think 20-point losses to the worst team the league should ever happen. Toronto won this afternoon after playing yesterday afternoon.

  Whether you think it should ever happen or not you've obviously been watching games long enough to know that they do. And Toronto had 3 games off before Saturday, they weren't 1 game removed from a back to back.

So since the Pistons were playing their 6th game in 10 days, and their 8th in 13 days, shouldn't they have been equally exhausted tonight?

  Off Tues, road Wed, off Thurs, home Fri, off Sat, home Sun.

  Off Tues, home Wed, road Thurs, off Fri, home Sat, road Sun.

  You think that the team with no back to backs that's been home since Thurs will be equally tired as the team with a back to back, a day off and another back to back (with an away game during each back to back)? I would disagree.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: nickagneta on November 19, 2012, 11:35:12 AM
Let's face facts, the additions of Courtney Lee, Jeff Green, Jason Terry have been extremely underwhelming, almost to the point of looking like serious mistakes.

The Bradley injury has also cost this team their best defensive player and the glue that makes the defense work because of his on the ball pressure and ability to create turnovers.

Also, enough with the Darko and Collins calls to play, they are and have always been bad players. They will contribute exactly squat this year. The rotation is

KG, Bass, Pierce, Bradley, Rondo
Wilcox, Sullinger, Green, Lee, Terry Barbosa

Those are the horses this team is going top win or lose with. Bradley has to get healthy and playing and Lee, Green, Terry have to start to come around and give significant contributions instead of the crap they have delivered thus far.

Sully and Barbosa are probably going to be wildly erratic because Sully is a rookie with limitations and Barbosa is a streak shooter getting spotty minutes.

But when the team shoots 45% and 23% from three while turning in a horrid defensive effort, losses like this will happen no matter who is playing.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: Kane3387 on November 19, 2012, 12:06:45 PM
We are an old team, some of this is to be expected in a brutal swing of games.

But I thought they got much younger and added tremendous depth this year?
Yep, but sadly they're not our core players. All this talk about getting younger and more athletic is just all talk. Sure we acquired/signed/drafted younger players. But they're all reserves. In the NBA you win with stars, not reserves. Sadly, our stars outside of Rondo are all past their prime.

San Antonio obliterates teams with the same formula.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: CelticG1 on November 19, 2012, 12:24:18 PM
I always find it funny when people are in tears after a few games and then break out the pom poms once the playoffs roll around
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: D.o.s. on November 19, 2012, 04:40:06 PM
Sadly, our stars outside of Rondo are all past their prime.

For the record, that was true when the band got together in 2007.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2012, 04:56:08 PM
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYtHJ8t5Pr5cyZfe4TxyhAD_C9dIckwThTjsVH0LRCke-faZ5t8w)

Look, I just don't see the need to be Chicken Little, myself.

Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 19, 2012, 05:04:55 PM
What a disgrace. Sully the only bright spot and as usual, Darko and Collins didn't play.  I wish this was the old days before player associations and zillion dollar contracts.

  4th game in 5 nights, 7 games in 10 nights. Games like this happen in the nba, and not just to the Celts.

I don't think 20-point losses to the worst team the league should ever happen. Toronto won this afternoon after playing yesterday afternoon.

And I remember that the coverage of the Boston-Toronto game made sure to include the fact that KG played only 17 minutes and Pierce only 25. Combine that with all the 20-somethings we now have (Lee, Rondo, Bass, Sully, Barbosa), and it seems that "tired" applies more to this old excuse than to the team.

I get it: 4 games in 5 days, and 7 in 10, is kinda tiring, even for professional athletes. Still, losing by 20 to a team that's going nowhere? I was shocked.

Still, I'm trying really hard to stick to my pledge to be more optimistic and less harsh toward the Cs this year, so I'll just call this a bump in the road and let it go. On to the next game.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: moiso on November 19, 2012, 07:11:42 PM
Let's face facts, the additions of Courtney Lee, Jeff Green, Jason Terry have been extremely underwhelming, almost to the point of looking like serious mistakes.

The Bradley injury has also cost this team their best defensive player and the glue that makes the defense work because of his on the ball pressure and ability to create turnovers.

Also, enough with the Darko and Collins calls to play, they are and have always been bad players. They will contribute exactly squat this year. The rotation is

KG, Bass, Pierce, Bradley, Rondo
Wilcox, Sullinger, Green, Lee, Terry Barbosa

Those are the horses this team is going top win or lose with. Bradley has to get healthy and playing and Lee, Green, Terry have to start to come around and give significant contributions instead of the crap they have delivered thus far.

Sully and Barbosa are probably going to be wildly erratic because Sully is a rookie with limitations and Barbosa is a streak shooter getting spotty minutes.

But when the team shoots 45% and 23% from three while turning in a horrid defensive effort, losses like this will happen no matter who is playing.
Terry will pay dividends.  Lee isn't paid much, but he looks like an IQ challenged player.  He seemed more composed on some of the other teams he was on.  Agree on Green.
Title: Re: I wish they could fine them all tonight, except for Sully, Darko and Collins
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 20, 2012, 07:08:31 AM
Let's face facts, the additions of Courtney Lee, Jeff Green, Jason Terry have been extremely underwhelming, almost to the point of looking like serious mistakes.

Production per 36 minutes, last 5 games...

Jeff Green:
13.5 Points, 5.9 Rebounds, 1.9 Assists, 49% FG, 40% 3PT, 82% FT

Jason Terry:
13.6 Points, 3.2 Rebounds, 2.9 Assists, 47% FG, 35% 3PT, 82% FT

Courtney Lee:
10 Points, 5 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 50% FG, 33% 3PT, 100% FT

I know these are not mind blowing numbers, but they are solid enough considering:

1. That the team is still learning to play together
2. The difficult stretch of games we just played through

Green and Terry's scoring numbers are only about 2 PP36 below what they averaged in their last successful seasons, while Lee's (10 PP36) is right about what he averaged with the Rockets last season.

We never expected any of these guys to put up Carmello Anthony type offensive numbers, and what they are giving us lately is up somewhat near what we had expected from them.  i believe their numbers will certainly improve, but "extremely underwhelming"?

Right now our bench is giving us around 30 PPG.  About 6 are coming from Lee and about 8.5 from Green. That's 35% of out bench scoring coming from those two guys, and those two guys are single handedly giving us as much offensive production as our entire bench did last season. 

Sully, Wilcox and Barbosa have been the nice surprises.

Surprisingly our bench has been pretty productive and bout 3x stronger then last year.  Our defense has also improved (though sporadically) since we started bringing Wilcox in at center rather than KG.  In brif minutes Collins has helped out defense too at times, but Doc insists on ignoring him.  Oh well.