CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Sketch5 on November 18, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
-
At least get a serviceable back up SF in return in the trade!
Seriously!
I keep seeing trades to bring in a big man that gives up both Bass and Green or just Green.
I get it, his contract makes it easier to do these things. I get that Greens contract is a bit on the high side of things. But tell me a SF that would have come here for a vet min or less that is as good or better...
The C's offered him this money because some one would have taken a shot at him for that much. So DA had to wrap him up. And its not like we could have spent 8 to 9 mill on some one else. The C's don't sign Green, its some one else for a couple mill or less.
Yeah he hasn't played up to what we thought. Or even what he was playing in the preseason. But I think there are some factors why he hasn't been playing like his old self.
First, its been over a year since he had seen full out real NBA action. Preseason doesn't count, were every one is moving a little slower, getting into shape. Plus he played a lot more, and against 2nd and 3rd stringers.
Second, Docs rotation is been all over the place. He hasn't been playing with a set group of players. I'd like to see Terry and KG go out at the same time, slide PP to the SG, and bring Green and Wilcox in. Play PP a few more minutes and then bring Lee in. That way Green gets some extra time with Rondo who can set him up better.
And Third, this is a two part'er that are connected. One thing, he may be thinking about his heart even if he doesn't know it. Making him not want to go full out. I think we'll see him get faster and more aggressive as the season goes not. Or at least I hope so. And for that reason he's not in as good as shape. And from being out for a year, he could be hitting walls that he's never had to run threw.
KG also has his back. Just like he had AB's back last season. And how many people wanted him out in the beginning of the season? Look how that turned out. KG is a not nonsense kind of guy, and if he doesn't think you can bring it, he wont push you. So theres that.
So when people bring up trades they need to bring in a decent back up SF along with what ever big they are trading for. Kris Joseph is a nice player, but not ready for the back up roll yet, if ever.
Also think of the team make up, and then who they play against. Mostly Miami. Trading a SF that can give PP rest of guarding Lebron for a center or nonathletic big is not a good trade.
-
Can't trade Jeff until Jan 15th anyways... same with Bass. So we probably will not see any major trades until then. It's unfortunate, because I could see Pau Gasol and Josh Smith traded well before then... and we have to sit on our hands hoping it doesn't happen in the next two months.
That's why I could see Big Al or Millisap being our target around the deadline. If Utah is struggling and Favors continues to be fantastic off the bench... they might want to move one of those bigs to free up minutes for Favors (and Kanter). Both Millisap and Al are free agents at the end of this season... a deadline deal for assets makes sense if they don't plan on re-signing them.
As for bringing in a serviceable SF... I think there will probably be some crappy buyout options as usual... and I don't mind "going small" with someone like Lee playing SF if we have some proper bigs on the court with him.
-
<--- Imagining how awesome Big Al would be on the Celtics. For like the last hour.
-
Celtics do not have to balance everything in a single trade or move.
If they can improve themselves by trading Green (and others) for another big man but no backup SF, they make the trade and start looking at how to bring in a serviceable SF that can play 10-15 minutes a game.
-
this is exactly why we cant trade him
-
<--- Imagining how awesome Big Al would be on the Celtics. For like the last hour.
He'd have to do some work on his defense, but yeah, his post scoring and great rebounding numbers would be quite useful here.
-
Ive noticed this too. green is probably one of our two most attractive trading pieces (bradley the other). but kris joseph cant be our back up three if we trade green. we would have to search the free agent market for a back up three. by jan 15th that market will be full of mediocre below average options to choose from.
also. i love jefferson. but i want no part of him back in celtic green. unfortunatley big al has worn out his welcome on all three teams hes been on. they all become losing squads. i say no thanks.
-
Celtics do not have to balance everything in a single trade or move.
If they can improve themselves by trading Green (and others) for another big man but no backup SF, they make the trade and start looking at how to bring in a serviceable SF that can play 10-15 minutes a game.
This is pretty much what I'd say but I don't dislike the idea of trading for a big and a wing in a blockbuster. In the Amare Stoudemire thread I posted something like Green/Bass/Lee for Amare/Brewer. That would upgrade our PF position significantly and give us a defensive spark off of the bench at SF.
Another option would be to move Green/Sullinger and picks for Cousins/Johnson. That nets us a big and an athletic SF with defensive skills.
One I haven't seen proposed yet is Harkless/Vucevic for Lee/Sully. Don't know how high Orlando is on Vucevic but it might be a good move so we can part with Green in another trade if the need arises. I'd include a first on our side too.
also. i love jefferson. but i want no part of him back in celtic green. unfortunatley big al has worn out his welcome on all three teams hes been on. they all become losing squads. i say no thanks.
I agree with this. I'd push for Paul Millsap or try to homerun it with Josh Smith.
-
AlJeff and KG together would give Miami fits.
If AB comes back strong, Green/Bass/Lee for BigAl and Hayward works.
I've been reluctant to propose trading Green for sentimental reasons and reluctant to trade Lee and Bass because they took less to play here. Trading them would be 1. bad juju and 2. a bad message to future potential signees.
However, having a KG, ALjEFF, Wilcox, Sullinger front-court rotation would be sick, something that the cHeat couldn't handle. At 6-8, Hayward could play the 2 or the 3.
I'd do this.
-
Celtics do not have to balance everything in a single trade or move.
If they can improve themselves by trading Green (and others) for another big man but no backup SF, they make the trade and start looking at how to bring in a serviceable SF that can play 10-15 minutes a game.
This is pretty much what I'd say but I don't dislike the idea of trading for a big and a wing in a blockbuster. In the Amare Stoudemire thread I posted something like Green/Bass/Lee for Amare/Brewer. That would upgrade our PF position significantly and give us a defensive spark off of the bench at SF.
Another option would be to move Green/Sullinger and picks for Cousins/Johnson. That nets us a big and an athletic SF with defensive skills.
One I haven't seen proposed yet is Harkless/Vucevic for Lee/Sully. Don't know how high Orlando is on Vucevic but it might be a good move so we can part with Green in another trade if the need arises. I'd include a first on our side too.
also. i love jefferson. but i want no part of him back in celtic green. unfortunatley big al has worn out his welcome on all three teams hes been on. they all become losing squads. i say no thanks.
I agree with this. I'd push for Paul Millsap or try to homerun it with Josh Smith.
Same here. ;)
-
At least get a serviceable back up SF in return in the trade!
It's a lot easier to find a serviceable back-up SF for the minimum than it is to find a serviceable big. It wouldn't be impossible to find a backup SF in the D-League who is NBA-ready.
-
I think Lee can play back up SF and ditto for Barbosa.
-
At least get a serviceable back up SF in return in the trade!
Seriously!
I keep seeing trades to bring in a big man that gives up both Bass and Green or just Green.
I get it, his contract makes it easier to do these things. I get that Greens contract is a bit on the high side of things. But tell me a SF that would have come here for a vet min or less that is as good or better...
The C's offered him this money because some one would have taken a shot at him for that much. So DA had to wrap him up. And its not like we could have spent 8 to 9 mill on some one else. The C's don't sign Green, its some one else for a couple mill or less.
Yeah he hasn't played up to what we thought. Or even what he was playing in the preseason. But I think there are some factors why he hasn't been playing like his old self.
First, its been over a year since he had seen full out real NBA action. Preseason doesn't count, were every one is moving a little slower, getting into shape. Plus he played a lot more, and against 2nd and 3rd stringers.
Second, Docs rotation is been all over the place. He hasn't been playing with a set group of players. I'd like to see Terry and KG go out at the same time, slide PP to the SG, and bring Green and Wilcox in. Play PP a few more minutes and then bring Lee in. That way Green gets some extra time with Rondo who can set him up better.
And Third, this is a two part'er that are connected. One thing, he may be thinking about his heart even if he doesn't know it. Making him not want to go full out. I think we'll see him get faster and more aggressive as the season goes not. Or at least I hope so. And for that reason he's not in as good as shape. And from being out for a year, he could be hitting walls that he's never had to run threw.
KG also has his back. Just like he had AB's back last season. And how many people wanted him out in the beginning of the season? Look how that turned out. KG is a not nonsense kind of guy, and if he doesn't think you can bring it, he wont push you. So theres that.
So when people bring up trades they need to bring in a decent back up SF along with what ever big they are trading for. Kris Joseph is a nice player, but not ready for the back up roll yet, if ever.
Also think of the team make up, and then who they play against. Mostly Miami. Trading a SF that can give PP rest of guarding Lebron for a center or nonathletic big is not a good trade.
Th only option for this would be Josh Smith. He can play some minutes at SF if need be.
-
Isn't Pietrus still available?
Wouldn't he come back to Boston if he is still out there at that point to play the same role he had last year?
-
I don't want to trade Jeff Green. But if they will, I hope it's to SacTo for James Johnson and a pick.
-
Miami is extremely vulnerable to bigs who can bang the offensive boards. Smith would be the ideal guy to bring in. However, indications out of the ATL are pointing to him re-upping this summer for the max.
If Big Al comes on the market, and Utah is stupid enough to want Green, the Cs would have to make a move. Green, Bass and a first and a second should do it. Bass can replace Milsap next season if Milsap signs elsewhere, as he tried to do as a RFA.
Big All gives the Cs two things they desperately need - rebounding and low post scoring. I'd even do two firsts if need be. Al is one of the top three low post scorers in the league, and is leading the league in total rebounds and fourth in rebounds per game.
If the Jazz aren't willing to take Green, Bass and Lee almost work money wise. A third team tweaking should make it work, Bass, Lee and two firsts for Big Al.
-
Miami is extremely vulnerable to bigs who can bang the offensive boards. Smith would be the ideal guy to bring in. However, indications out of the ATL are pointing to him re-upping this summer for the max.
If Big Al comes on the market, and Utah is stupid enough to want Green, the Cs would have to make a move. Green, Bass and a first and a second should do it. Bass can replace Milsap next season if Milsap signs elsewhere, as he tried to do as a RFA.
Big All gives the Cs two things they desperately need - rebounding and low post scoring. I'd even do two firsts if need be. Al is one of the top three low post scorers in the league, and is leading the league in total rebounds and fourth in rebounds per game.
If the Jazz aren't willing to take Green, Bass and Lee almost work money wise. A third team tweaking should make it work, Bass, Lee and two firsts for Big Al.
Against Miami, I think Bosh would kill Big Al with his quickness and drop 30pts. On the other end, I can see Miami shutting down the angle for the entry pass more successfully than most. Their defense is pretty good, and I don't think Big Al could move/pass the ball well or quickly enough when they swarm him.
Miami is really, really good. It's going to take an allstar big man that can make a difference on both ends, and Big Al just shouldn't be in that discussion (as much as I like him).
-
I think Lee can play back up SF and ditto for Barbosa.
Sorry but you're wrong on both accounts. Lee can "fill in" at SF in small ball lineups maybe but neither of those two guys should be considered serviceable at the SF position.
If the Jazz aren't willing to take Green, Bass and Lee almost work money wise. A third team tweaking should make it work, Bass, Lee and two firsts for Big Al.
I'd trade Bass+Lee and a 1st for Jefferson for sure. I wouldn't trade Green for him or even him and Hayward. I think Al is good but I'd rather have Millsap.
-
This is just me but Big Al will not give us an upgrade defensively. Sure, he adds rebounds, but with our offensive schemes, I doubt Al will be effective with us.
I believe we need bigs that are scrappy, has DESIRE to rebound and plays tough defense of course and are going to contribute even without scoring a ton or having the ball in their hands. Someone like a Sideshow Andy... Problem is there's not a lot of those. But fear not, coz I know one more guy...
Yep, the bandwagon makes a stop here.
BOSTON, TRADE FOR JASON SMITH!
-
Our defense sucks. But is it because all we can do is play players <6'9?
Sure looked better when Wilcox was in.
One more 6'10+ guy who can actually play.
I'm still thinking Darko's wrist is in trouble. And I'm still on the Darko bandwagon of redemption.
However, inside scoring would bolster our offense, seriously. Rondo's passing with Al Jefferson's inside touch? It's over.
-
Our two old superstars aren't really "super" any more , just very good players....and the rest of the team that actually plays is short to play most of the better teams ( which all have good centers or multiple rebounding near 7ft ers.
The Celtics , LIVE or DIE by the jump shot. And we died a horrible death at the hands of the LOWLY Pistons .
Please !!!Give up small ball ...Wade and LBJ play a wierd wild, hectic street ball game., the Celtics don't have those type of players.
-
I posted in the wrong thread, ignore.
-
So if you got Al Jefferson - would you start him and KG? Or platoon them at C, with some overlap? If you start them both you get a lot of minutes with KG and Jefferson on the floor at the same time. Which means you still end up with a small lineup when they are both out. I'm not sure KG at PF is ideal anymore.
I think KGs 5-5-5 minute rotation, makes either a possibility from a pure rotation math stand point.
-
trade him for Big Al ASAP.
-
So if you got Al Jefferson - would you start him and KG? Or platoon them at C, with some overlap? If you start them both you get a lot of minutes with KG and Jefferson on the floor at the same time. Which means you still end up with a small lineup when they are both out. I'm not sure KG at PF is ideal anymore.
I think KGs 5-5-5 minute rotation, makes either a possibility from a pure rotation math stand point.
I would start them both.
When KG comes back in, Big Al goes to the bench.
-
Big Al is leading the league in total rebounds and defensive rebounds,and is fourth in rebounds per game. he's one of the best five low post players in the league. Playing him next to KG would certainly help him at the defensive end.
If there's any way the Cs could dump Green on Utah and get Jefferson, they'd be stupid to not do it.
-
Trade Green for anything. Addition by subtraction.
-
with the exception of this board I don't think any fans are going to be thrilled with trading one of their rotation players for jeff green.