CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Shad0wman on November 15, 2012, 09:15:06 PM

Title: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Shad0wman on November 15, 2012, 09:15:06 PM
And I can barely watch this C's team when he is on the Floor. I could list just about every possesion I've seen him play in as an example but I will just give you one, maybe 2. In one single play against the Nets, he got outfought for a rebound on the D end to give the nets like their 13 OReb in the FIRST HALF ALONE.
Theeeeeeen on the same play he got boxed out of position and gave up ANOTHER OReb and the 2 points.

I must be missing something that everyone else isnt, but when I just look at the dude, he has no heart or fire in his eyes and, well, basically he sucks as a bball player.

36 million dollars for green is like giving TARP money to banks imo. I've seen enough and the dude just has no heart and gives no energy to this team.

Oh, all I can go by is the dudes actions on a basketball court, and I think he's had enough time to prove what kind of player he is.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: MJohnnyboy on November 15, 2012, 09:19:44 PM
Ok. Have fun with that!
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 15, 2012, 09:21:36 PM
And I can barely watch this C's team when he is on the Floor. I could list just about every possesion I've seen him play in as an example but I will just give you one, maybe 2. In one single play against the Nets, he got outfought for a rebound on the D end to give the nets like their 13 OReb in the FIRST HALF ALONE.
Theeeeeeen on the same play he got boxed out of position and gave up ANOTHER OReb and the 2 points.

I must be missing something that everyone else isnt, but when I just look at the dude, he has no heart or fire in his eyes and, well, basically he sucks as a bball player.

36 million dollars for green is like giving TARP money to banks imo. I've seen enough and the dude just has no heart and gives no energy to this team.

Oh, all I can go by is the dudes actions on a basketball court, and I think he's had enough time to prove what kind of player he is.

Where was this the last two games when he made key plays to help win games?

He gives up one rebound on the offensive board and he sucks now eh?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Eddie20 on November 15, 2012, 09:25:23 PM
he got outfought for a rebound on the D end to give the nets like their 13 OReb in the FIRST HALF ALONE.
Theeeeeeen on the same play he got boxed out of position and gave up ANOTHER OReb and the 2 points.

You make it sound as though he is personally responsible for giving up 13 offensive rebounds.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 15, 2012, 09:29:42 PM
Interestingly enough, Green is our rebound leader for the game today so far.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Q_FBE on November 15, 2012, 09:31:25 PM
I simply do not agree with the first post in the thread. I think he is the only one trying out there along with Barbosa.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: LooseCannon on November 15, 2012, 09:32:18 PM
Mid-game over-reaction threads rarely turn out well for the OP, right?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kuberski1 on November 15, 2012, 09:37:08 PM
Couldn't disagree more.   Jeff has 3 Defensive rebounds at half, and he's not out there for his rebounding.

I put this on KG, Bass, Sully, Collins and Wilcox:  Combined, the 5 of them have a grand total of 2 defensive rebounds, one less than Green has by himself.  So much for our big guys grabbing boards....
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blink on November 15, 2012, 09:52:42 PM
You obviously haven't seen the last few games.  Maybe  you should check them out?


And I can barely watch this C's team when he is on the Floor. I could list just about every possesion I've seen him play in as an example but I will just give you one, maybe 2. In one single play against the Nets, he got outfought for a rebound on the D end to give the nets like their 13 OReb in the FIRST HALF ALONE.
Theeeeeeen on the same play he got boxed out of position and gave up ANOTHER OReb and the 2 points.

I must be missing something that everyone else isnt, but when I just look at the dude, he has no heart or fire in his eyes and, well, basically he sucks as a bball player.

36 million dollars for green is like giving TARP money to banks imo. I've seen enough and the dude just has no heart and gives no energy to this team.

Oh, all I can go by is the dudes actions on a basketball court, and I think he's had enough time to prove what kind of player he is.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Q_FBE on November 15, 2012, 10:10:44 PM
I simply do not agree with the first post in the thread. I think he is the only one trying out there along with Barbosa. Did you bother to notice the effort of Jeff Green in Brooklyn tonight?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kenhov on November 15, 2012, 10:21:18 PM
We are fans. We love and support our team and its players, but we should never be blind to the flaws of players.

Jeff Green shrinks the bigger the game. As soon as he can be traded he should be. In a team with less aspirations and expectations, like the Hawks or Utah or Sacramento, he could be a very good player, but in Boston he i pretty much an embarassment.

A few good dunks and decent low key games should not deflect us from this.

It pains me to say this because I was willing to boast about Jeff Green as the missing piece that could have taken us over the top last year.

But that isnt true. He literally hides on the court in big moments, and passes the ball like a hot potato.

It is ironic to say as has been said before, but he appears to lack HEART.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 15, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
I'll root for Green and hope he eventually busts out, but I do think he's probably the most overpaid and over-rated player on the roster. 
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kenhov on November 15, 2012, 10:28:43 PM
I'll root for Green and hope he eventually busts out, but I do think he's probably the most overpaid and over-rated player on the roster.

He quite simply is not up to the role of being a significant contributor to a championship level team. I would hope Ainge doesnt have an ego trip TRYING to make Jeff Green stick. He wont.

Its frustrating to watch someone with that level of talent literally coast through games, but I have a feeling that Green actually needs some sessions with a shrink.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 15, 2012, 10:39:06 PM
I'll be glade to dump him for Josh Smith  ???
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: southshorematt on November 15, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
BAHAHA GOOD CALL BUDDY!

jeff forced the travel and then hit the big 3... go home
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 15, 2012, 10:47:46 PM
BAHAHA GOOD CALL BUDDY!

jeff forced the travel and then hit the big 3... go home

... bringing his total to 5 points for the game on 2-of-6 shooting, with four turnovers.

Superstar.  ::)

Before treating others rudely, you might want to examine the strength of your own argument.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kenhov on November 15, 2012, 10:56:51 PM
Its wholesale fraud that Jeff Green is committing and I cant believe Celtic fans are falling for it.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: RJ87 on November 15, 2012, 10:56:58 PM
BAHAHA GOOD CALL BUDDY!

jeff forced the travel and then hit the big 3... go home

... bringing his total to 5 points for the game on 2-of-6 shooting, with four turnovers.

Superstar.  ::)

Before treating others rudely, you might want to examine the strength of your own argument.

In all fairness, the OP did question Green's passion and fire. Two key plays down the stretchin a fairly big game makes the OP look a little over dramatic.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 15, 2012, 11:04:31 PM
BAHAHA GOOD CALL BUDDY!

jeff forced the travel and then hit the big 3... go home

... bringing his total to 5 points for the game on 2-of-6 shooting, with four turnovers.

Superstar.  ::)

Before treating others rudely, you might want to examine the strength of your own argument.

It's interesting that whenever Jeff Green plays horribly as he usually does people jump to his defense and choose to blame the coach saying that Green isn't being used properly, yet when he hits one open three out of the many he takes and misses everyone including fans and analysts praise him like he's going to be the Celtics franchise player.

He's overpaid and overrated. Delusional people want to believe he will be a star just because he's a nice guy. In reality he was  by far the worst FA signing this season. One sportcenter dunk and one three pointer in a loss will not change that.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: vinnie on November 15, 2012, 11:20:52 PM
I'll root for Green and hope he eventually busts out, but I do think he's probably the most overpaid and over-rated player on the roster.

A thousand times this.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on November 15, 2012, 11:21:41 PM
regardless

i want green on my team
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 15, 2012, 11:23:00 PM
Well, I'm thinking that Jeff Green will become Boston's new whipping stick, unfortunately.

In GF1819's dictionary,  ;D a whipping stick is a player on the Boston Celtic's roster that is lambasted when BOS loses..but when he plays well, it is barely mentioned. It is even reasoned away that his "good" play was the result of something else, lol.

As long as I've been a fan, we've had a few:

Antoine Walker.

Tony Allen.

Now, I can see Jeff Green becoming that player. While I can certainly understand the money slant, I don't think it's fair to just jump on the man after this loss.

There were other factors involved with this loss other than Jeff Green. He didn't play great, but Bass went 4-14.

And I do love Bass as a player.

If we would've had Rajon, BOS takes this game. I'm upset about the loss, but I'm not about to go "Bad-Jeff Good-Jeff", like we had with Tony Allen, lol...

And then TA left for MEM, and he's thriving.

While I respect the OP's post, I don't agree with it at all - not after one game.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: vinnie on November 15, 2012, 11:23:31 PM
regardless

i want green on my team

Curious. Why?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: European NBA fan on November 15, 2012, 11:31:41 PM
The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 15, 2012, 11:45:10 PM
Well, I'm thinking that Jeff Green will become Boston's new whipping stick, unfortunately.

In GF1819's dictionary,  ;D a whipping stick is a player on the Boston Celtic's roster that is lambasted when BOS loses..but when he plays well, it is barely mentioned. It is even reasoned away that his "good" play was the result of something else, lol.

As long as I've been a fan, we've had a few:

Antoine Walker.

Tony Allen.

Now, I can see Jeff Green becoming that player. While I can certainly understand the money slant, I don't think it's fair to just jump on the man after this loss.

There were other factors involved with this loss other than Jeff Green. He didn't play great, but Bass went 4-14.

And I do love Bass as a player.

If we would've had Rajon, BOS takes this game. I'm upset about the loss, but I'm not about to go "Bad-Jeff Good-Jeff", like we had with Tony Allen, lol...

And then TA left for MEM, and he's thriving.

While I respect the OP's post, I don't agree with it at all - not after one game.

From what I see whenever Jeff Green makes one play the analysts and the fans go nuts and heap praise on him like he's a rookie just breaking out. They go and start threads on creating a new nickname for him for one dunk he made. On the flip side when we lose I see way more people defending Green with any new excuse they can come up with such as blame the coach, the PF position isn't working, he needs to start, he's not familiar with the system, he's coming off a year off. I've heard them all, instead of jumping to his defense for every little comment made towards him how about we wait for him to have a string of good games before dubbing him the future of the franchise.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 15, 2012, 11:47:44 PM
regardless

i want green on my team

Curious. Why?

Cause he came off surgery and made a dunk. Also ESPN says he is worth the contract.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: chambers on November 15, 2012, 11:51:48 PM
Well he was probably the reason we won the game against Utah, and he made some nice plays.
I agree though he's not playing up to 9 million per year at the moment.
It's a question of consistency and confidence and it could take him 30 or 40 games to get there. Or he may never get there.

I feel that he'll eventually work it out because I saw what he did in OKC when he was the starting small forward (3 spot) on the Thunder when Durant was injured. He was a legit All Star for 6 or 7 games and crushed some good teams. He averaged 23 points 5 rebounds 4 assists and ran the floor like a horse.

His role is still being learned and worked out. He's slowly getting it here that he has to come in and go hard at the rim, play hard defense and hit that wide open corner three ball.

He's also still learning the defense which is taking him a while. Once he has the defensive schemes down so they're automatic in his head, it will take a lot of pressure of him offensively because he won't have to process so much.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 15, 2012, 11:55:24 PM
Well, I'm thinking that Jeff Green will become Boston's new whipping stick, unfortunately.

In GF1819's dictionary,  ;D a whipping stick is a player on the Boston Celtic's roster that is lambasted when BOS loses..but when he plays well, it is barely mentioned. It is even reasoned away that his "good" play was the result of something else, lol.

As long as I've been a fan, we've had a few:

Antoine Walker.

Tony Allen.

Now, I can see Jeff Green becoming that player. While I can certainly understand the money slant, I don't think it's fair to just jump on the man after this loss.

There were other factors involved with this loss other than Jeff Green. He didn't play great, but Bass went 4-14.

And I do love Bass as a player.

If we would've had Rajon, BOS takes this game. I'm upset about the loss, but I'm not about to go "Bad-Jeff Good-Jeff", like we had with Tony Allen, lol...

And then TA left for MEM, and he's thriving.

While I respect the OP's post, I don't agree with it at all - not after one game.

From what I see whenever Jeff Green makes one play the analysts and the fans go nuts and heap praise on him like he's a rookie just breaking out. They go and start threads on creating a new nickname for him for one dunk he made. On the flip side when we lose I see way more people defending Green with any new excuse they can come up with such as blame the coach, the PF position isn't working, he needs to start, he's not familiar with the system, he's coming off a year off. I've heard them all, instead of jumping to his defense for every little comment made towards him how about we wait for him to have a string of good games before dubbing him the future of the franchise.

In light of the fact that Jeff Green even PLAYING is a miracle, I'm not going to throw him under the bus after a loss to upstart BKN.

Not going to.

A similar condition took Reggie Lewis from us, so if Jeff Green has one (or two, or three) off games, I'm good.

He'll get it together.

And to be honest, I think the criticism of him is balanced. I haven't seen a groundswell of threads on here annointing JG as the future...I've seen it discussed, but with Danny Ainge the whole roster could be traded by Feb 2013, so who knows?

I just think that, unfortunately, there is a trend developing on here that - if we're not careful, we could start singling out Jeff for EVERY loss, and that's not right. He needs to be more consistent and agressive, but Bass needs to not go 4-14, too.

Yes - JG is paid a LOT of money..but even THAT has been discussed on here ad infinitum.

I believe he will pan out.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Atzar on November 16, 2012, 12:04:19 AM
One of these days, a sports fanbase won't fly off the deep end based on disappointing results in a small sample size of games.

The internet will subsequently explode.


I think this thread would make more sense halfway through the season.  Not after eight games.  And remember, a few weeks ago he was being compared to James Worthy.  Early last year, there were common posts that equated Avery Bradley to garbage.  Just to give you some idea of how accurate these knee-jerk reactions usually are.

He's showing some good signs, including greatly improved energy and effectiveness on defense.  He's not comfortable on offense right now and he's playing passively because of it, but with KG and Doc in his ear constantly he'll settle in.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: lightspeed5 on November 16, 2012, 12:13:16 AM
regardless

i want green on my team

Curious. Why?
one of the best backup 3s in the league.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kane3387 on November 16, 2012, 12:16:55 AM
He will always leave you wanting more. I like Green and what he has to offer, but that offer is just not on the table consistently.

He lacks any semblance of a motor and as a result I think he is a poor man's Lamar Odom with a little more athleticism. He will be maddening to root for, but we were wise to sign him. We had no other alternative.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: indeedproceed on November 16, 2012, 12:37:02 AM
Comparing Jeff Green to James Worthy was and is about as useful as comparing Gerald Green to Tracy McGrady.

Saying he's a terrible basketball player now is like calling Avery Bradley a bust during his rookie season.

Be disappointed, be optimistic, either one is valid. But I wouldn't go saying what he is or isn't yet except a mostly unknown quantity who shouldn't play the 4
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kane3387 on November 16, 2012, 12:49:57 AM
Comparing Jeff Green to James Worthy was and is about as useful as comparing Gerald Green to Tracy McGrady.

Saying he's a terrible basketball player now is like calling Avery Bradley a bust during his rookie season.

Be disappointed, be optimistic, either one is valid. But I wouldn't go saying what he is or isn't yet except a mostly unknown quantity who shouldn't play the 4

AB was 19. Green is what 25 or 26... I think he is almost what he is. I  don't think guys really develop motors. It's a part of your personality and your individual human nature. Green has been so gifted that the game just came easy for him at the lower levels. In the NBA it doesn't and he just has not shown that he has the intangibles to consistently attack and implement his will on the game. He didn't show it in OKC and he hasn't shown it here.

He is neither a pure 3 or 4. But I think it's an excuse. James Posey never had the athletic gifts Green did, but he had a tenacity that made his presence felt. Pose was neither a true three or four. But it didn't really matter. He still impacted games and after you watched him you said man he makes a big difference.

The only excuse Green has in my opinion is that he still doesn't really know his role. I hope this is the case and that is why he is so passive. But with every game I lose a little optimism and think he will always just be a trick or treat player who is maddeningly inconsistent.

If it's as you say and Green should never play the four then we will never see what he truly brings to the table until Paul Pierce or himself is no longer wearing a Celtic's jersey. That is really sad.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: indeedproceed on November 16, 2012, 12:57:16 AM
I think it is an issue of role and confidence. The point of comparing him to Bradley was that guys don't look great until they figure out what they're supposed to be. I think Jeff Green is still figuring that out.

That, or he really isn't very good, which would suck, but is pretty possible.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kane3387 on November 16, 2012, 01:15:49 AM
Quote
That, or he really isn't very good, which would suck, but is pretty possible.

I hope not and I don't think so. I think he has a lot of talent. It's just having it translate into consistent production.

I guess we will have to remain patient.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Galeto on November 16, 2012, 01:16:07 AM
I think it is an issue of role and confidence. The point of comparing him to Bradley was that guys don't look great until they figure out what they're supposed to be. I think Jeff Green is still figuring that out.

That, or he really isn't very good, which would suck, but is pretty possible.

I don't think it's a matter of identity.  With someone like Big Baby, I think it was because Baby saw himself as a potential star and wrested too big a role for himself.  With Green, I think it's him not figuring out how to rebound or defend better and not having enough dynamic offensive abilities.  I couldn't believe that he let Stackhouse take him off the dribble; that directly led to four points for the Nets.  Stackhouse.

I wasn't the biggest Green believer.  His contract never made sense to me but I don't think Green's been horrible.  Maybe that's because I never had high expectations for him in the first place.  I still would like to see him play more minutes than Bass though.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Galeto on November 16, 2012, 01:37:42 AM
I think maybe Green's biggest deficiency is a subpar basketball IQ.  He just makes too many mistakes, be it not closing out responsibly so someone like Stackhouse can't take him off the dribble or not rotating correctly on defense.  An illustrative point for me was happened during preseason when he failed to dig in on a big who drove from the three point line all the way unbothered to the basket.  Doc had to reprimand him on a basic, elemental point of help defense.  You can't be messing up stuff like that as a veteran even if it's in the preseason.

As for his rebounding, I don't understand why it seems like he's never in a position to grab the board.  He gets blocked out on his own defensive board all the time.  With his strength and size, that shouldn't happen.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celtics18 on November 16, 2012, 01:45:24 AM
I'll root for Green and hope he eventually busts out, but I do think he's probably the most overpaid and over-rated player on the roster.

For me it's a close one between him and Courtney Lee.  I'd say that Brandon is in the conversation, as well.  Dare I say that Paul and Kevin are also contenders for that dubious title.  Anyway, I guess someone would have to be.  I'm sure someone could figure out a simple mathematical formula to represent performance per dollar amount.

Regardless, who ends up being the most overpaid, I like all those guys and root for all of them to succeed while they are wearing Celtics green.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Galeto on November 16, 2012, 03:02:45 AM
Quote
I feel that he'll eventually work it out because I saw what he did in OKC when he was the starting small forward (3 spot) on the Thunder when Durant was injured. He was a legit All Star for 6 or 7 games and crushed some good teams. He averaged 23 points 5 rebounds 4 assists and ran the floor like a horse.

Where are you getting this from?  I remember when Durant missed two games in the 2011 season and Green played well but it wasn't at SF.  I checked the box scores of both games, the first was a triple OT game against NJ and he went off for 37/5/4 but Sefolosha played 55 minutes so it wasn't at SF.  The next game he wasn't as good (17/4/7 on 6-14 shooting) but Sefolosha played 39 minutes so again, not at SF.  The competition he crushed was NJ and Toronto, so they weren't good teams either.

Edit: I was wrong. Green did play SF with Ibaka starting at PF but Green also played ample minutes as a small PF too.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 16, 2012, 04:53:46 AM
The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
He's supposed to contribute in every game, not just a couple of wins.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 16, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
I think it is an issue of role and confidence. The point of comparing him to Bradley was that guys don't look great until they figure out what they're supposed to be. I think Jeff Green is still figuring that out.

That, or he really isn't very good, which would suck, but is pretty possible.
Five years of figuring...
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 16, 2012, 05:05:05 AM
He's still coming back from his heart surgery.

I'll have his back as long as he's a Celtic.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cltc5 on November 16, 2012, 05:35:36 AM
I'll give this team till the trade deadline to figure it out then BLOW IT UP!
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 16, 2012, 06:23:18 AM
He really is horrible.

He played great defense to force a turnover and then hit a cold blooded 3 to tie the game before free throws killed us.

Man, you wish this guy wasn't on our roster right?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 16, 2012, 07:24:11 AM
The sky is falling........GAH.   You guys kill me sometimes.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: European NBA fan on November 16, 2012, 07:53:10 AM
The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
He's supposed to contribute in every game, not just a couple of wins.

And how is that opposed to what I write? I don't get your point.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 16, 2012, 08:05:34 AM
The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
He's supposed to contribute in every game, not just a couple of wins.

And how is that opposed to what I write? I don't get your point.
My point is that Green has been adequate in like 3 out of 10 games.  That's on par with his career performance, and that's not good enough if we are going to compete for a title.  Green is being counted on for consistent production game to game in some way, shape, or form.  If Green is a no-show in 70% of the games, the Celtics roster isn't good enough to challenge great teams.  The Celtics require a lot more from Green than, say, Darko Milicic.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: European NBA fan on November 16, 2012, 08:43:44 AM
The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
He's supposed to contribute in every game, not just a couple of wins.

And how is that opposed to what I write? I don't get your point.
My point is that Green has been adequate in like 3 out of 10 games.  That's on par with his career performance, and that's not good enough if we are going to compete for a title.  Green is being counted on for consistent production game to game in some way, shape, or form.  If Green is a no-show in 70% of the games, the Celtics roster isn't good enough to challenge great teams.  The Celtics require a lot more from Green than, say, Darko Milicic.

And how is that different from what I wrote? It's all about consistency, and you can't really measure that in ten games, especially for guy coming back after heart surgery.

I can live with performances like yesterday as the bottom level, if that is followed by an 18 points performance when we need that. It wasn't like we needed Green's offensive production yesterday, it was the team rebounding and defense that was the problem, and Green did ok in those areas.
 
And btw. his career performance of 13.7 points and 5.5 rebounds per game would be a substantial contribution to our team. To get there, he would need to play 30+ minutes rather than 20.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: scaryjerry on November 16, 2012, 08:45:22 AM
I agree he really isn't that good....at all. Nice guy...about as hard to watch at times as Tony Allen......at least ta had one elite skill.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: celts55 on November 16, 2012, 09:52:44 AM
Guess I'll ad my 2 cents. I think he's a servicable back up, who with confidence and consistancy could be better than average. I believe he has scoring ability, but really needs to get busy rebounding, especially if Doc is going to use him at the 4. I wouldn't give up on him, but I will admit I can not understand for the life of me how he got that contract.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: wdleehi on November 16, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
I still see a poor man's Derrick McKey. 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mckeyde01.html




A guy with great physical tools and basketball skills.  Doesn't have the mindset to really maximize those skills. 


Except Green is not the defender McKey is.



Green is a 5th starter.  On the Celtics, he is a 6th man.  Unfortunately, he is being payed like a top 3 - 4 player that starts on a team. 




I hope he plays better.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: More Banners on November 16, 2012, 11:26:28 AM
I'm waiting until midseason to figure out Green and how he fits.  He missed too much time, is with a new group in a new role, etc.

And that group, we're all so proud, is stacked with people who can do things on the court.  I can understand it being difficult to figure out when to be assertive offensively next to JET, Barbosa, Bass, Pierce et. al.

Right now, it looks like Doc is doing some great coaching with this team, as much as it pains me to say that.  He's not a great in-game coach for the most part (matchups, etc.), but he's going a great job getting the individuals to do their best individually and come toether.

His cheer for Green's 3 last night really showed his hopes for Green, IMO, and they're pretty high.  It might take a bit to get there, though.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 16, 2012, 11:34:24 AM
The dude just came off massive heart surgery in which he missed an entire season...Has anyone here had heart surgery before? Green is a little lacking in the confidence department yes, I would be too. He is learning how to trust his body and see how it react to the strenuous schedule. Not only that, he is trying to find his place as a role player playing 20 minutes a game in short spurts on the court when he is used to getting into a rhythm playing 35 minutes a game.

Hes got the skills, the potential. Getting used to his role and lack of confidence, mentally and physically, is gonna hold him back for a little while.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 16, 2012, 12:33:13 PM
The dude just came off massive heart surgery in which he missed an entire season...Has anyone here had heart surgery before? Green is a little lacking in the confidence department yes, I would be too. He is learning how to trust his body and see how it react to the strenuous schedule. Not only that, he is trying to find his place as a role player playing 20 minutes a game in short spurts on the court when he is used to getting into a rhythm playing 35 minutes a game.

Hes got the skills, the potential. Getting used to his role and lack of confidence, mentally and physically, is gonna hold him back for a little while.
But he is exactly the same player he was before the heart surgery.  So I'm not sure how it can be said that the surgery is holding him back.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Interceptor on November 16, 2012, 01:24:14 PM
He is the same player, for sure, but he's in a different role. Whether or not that will make a difference, remains to be seen.

It's not like he's a total disaster area. Dunked on big Al, drilled a clutch three, had some good defensive moments. If he can consistently give us stuff like that, he's worth it.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mctyson on November 16, 2012, 01:31:44 PM
i am sure at somepoint the OP will create a Josh Smith trade proposal that includes Barbosa, Darko, Collins, Sully, Kris Joseph, and Tyron Lue.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 16, 2012, 01:46:58 PM
hopefully Green can pick up his game over the next 6 -8 weeks, and the whole team will start to blend together.

If he doesn't improve dramatically I imagine Danny will take action to right the ship before the second half of the season gets to far under way.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 16, 2012, 02:37:24 PM
if you knew green as a player before he came to Boston you'd know he has quite the motor, and does play with a fire in his eyes.  The fact that hes playing right now is a blessing, and if it takes a month or a few to get back into his natural consistency, I could care less. He's already shown he has capability in the preseason and games like vs Utah where he showed consistent production. His D has been underrated in my opinion and has made significant improvement on rebounding already.

 For all we know he could be purposely,(or subconsciously) be playing a bit laid back as a precaution to limit putting too much post-surgery stress on his heart too early into his return. You can tell he isn't playing with the 'prove the doubters wrong' mentality right now, because hes being passive on offense(only averaging 7.5 shots per game).  That might not be the case but its true that we assume too much about what he's been through and how he should be performing.


Greens not just a really nice guy, he's also a really smart guy.  I think the not-so-intelligent decision for a guy in his place would be to hit the floor sprinting, and risk never being able to play basketball again as well as any hopes his team had of winning a championship.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Boris Badenov on November 16, 2012, 03:03:42 PM
I have a question based on what I've seen from his offensively so far - why don't he and Rondo run more pick and rolls? He's a fair shooter so you have to respect that, and a good athlete going to the basket.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: LB3533 on November 16, 2012, 04:29:09 PM
If you want more from Jeff Green...play him 35 minutes per game.

For Jeff Green to give this team the 9-10 million dollar production that you all are looking for he has to never miss a shot and never miss a FT and never turn the ball over ever.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Sketch5 on November 16, 2012, 05:31:18 PM
KG has Greens back. Keeps at him to be aggressive. He must see some thing in him in practice's that makes KG want him to do better, to keep chewing at his ear on every good play.

You know who else he did that to. Avery Bradley. Remember how much people hated him in the beginning of the year. Heck, I was one of them, thinking every time he came out it was 3 turnovers automatically. But KG keep at him, stood behind him and pushed him. And how did that turn out by the end of the season?

I'll take KG's opinion on how good he is over any over reactors on here.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: 2short on November 16, 2012, 05:48:59 PM
KG has Greens back. Keeps at him to be aggressive. He must see some thing in him in practice's that makes KG want him to do better, to keep chewing at his ear on every good play.

You know who else he did that to. Avery Bradley. Remember how much people hated him in the beginning of the year. Heck, I was one of them, thinking every time he came out it was 3 turnovers automatically. But KG keep at him, stood behind him and pushed him. And how did that turn out by the end of the season?

I'll take KG's opinion on how good he is over any over reactors on here.
wait
fire doc
blow team up
dump collins
trade green
trade lee
pierce not shooting well
terry not taking over for ray well enough
trade for josh smith
trade for josh smith
trade for josh smith
number nine
number nine
are you saying there are over reactors on celtics blog
 8)
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 16, 2012, 05:50:08 PM
I respectfully disagree with the OP. Green is a work in progress, sure, but he's got too much talent to give up on yet.

And inasmuch as your frustration has to do with last night's game against Brooklyn, yeah, Green played poorly, but so did Pierce and Bass, and the whole team failed to score for a five-minute stretch.

It was like watching the last five minutes of Game 7 of the 2010 Finals.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Sketch5 on November 16, 2012, 05:52:47 PM
KG has Greens back. Keeps at him to be aggressive. He must see some thing in him in practice's that makes KG want him to do better, to keep chewing at his ear on every good play.

You know who else he did that to. Avery Bradley. Remember how much people hated him in the beginning of the year. Heck, I was one of them, thinking every time he came out it was 3 turnovers automatically. But KG keep at him, stood behind him and pushed him. And how did that turn out by the end of the season?

I'll take KG's opinion on how good he is over any over reactors on here.
wait
fire doc
blow team up
dump collins
trade green
trade lee
pierce not shooting well
terry not taking over for ray well enough
trade for josh smith
trade for josh smith
trade for josh smith
number nine
number nine
are you saying there are over reactors on celtics blog
 8)

You forgot sell the team and move it cross county because why bother with this team! :P
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: j804 on November 16, 2012, 06:02:08 PM
I'd agree with the Jeff Green haters if we were midway through the season, it's been what 5-6 games? Gimme a break
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: vjcsmoke on November 16, 2012, 06:04:52 PM
I wouldn't say that Green is 'horrible'.  But he is vastly overpaid at 9m per season, and he's not even a big man, ala Mark Blount.  At least you have some rationale for overpaying a player like that. 

Green isn't even the 6th best player on the Celtics roster yet he's getting paid like a starter.  The NBA has a salary cap of 58m this season.  Jeff Green is taking up 15.5% of that cap.  Making money like that comes with expectations.  So far Green has failed to deliver on those expectations.

Do I want Jeff Green to play better?  Of course I do, he's wearing Celtic Green.  So far is it reasonable to expect any better?  Not until he proves it.  I just hope he plays well enough so he can be a trade chip down the road.  The Celtics roster is in need of an upgrade.  Jeff Green is not that upgrade thus far.

The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: ballin on November 16, 2012, 06:21:39 PM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 16, 2012, 06:50:30 PM
Comparing Jeff Green to James Worthy was and is about as useful as comparing Gerald Green to Tracy McGrady.

Saying he's a terrible basketball player now is like calling Avery Bradley a bust during his rookie season.

Be disappointed, be optimistic, either one is valid. But I wouldn't go saying what he is or isn't yet except a mostly unknown quantity who shouldn't play the 4

AB was 19. Green is what 25 or 26... I think he is almost what he is. I  don't think guys really develop motors. It's a part of your personality and your individual human nature. Green has been so gifted that the game just came easy for him at the lower levels. In the NBA it doesn't and he just has not shown that he has the intangibles to consistently attack and implement his will on the game. He didn't show it in OKC and he hasn't shown it here.

He is neither a pure 3 or 4. But I think it's an excuse. James Posey never had the athletic gifts Green did, but he had a tenacity that made his presence felt. Pose was neither a true three or four. But it didn't really matter. He still impacted games and after you watched him you said man he makes a big difference.

The only excuse Green has in my opinion is that he still doesn't really know his role. I hope this is the case and that is why he is so passive. But with every game I lose a little optimism and think he will always just be a trick or treat player who is maddeningly inconsistent.

If it's as you say and Green should never play the four then we will never see what he truly brings to the table until Paul Pierce or himself is no longer wearing a Celtic's jersey. That is really sad.

The main reason Green is not playing as well as he should: He's playing the 4

In the Thunder and now the Celtics there was always a starting 3 in his way who was better than him

The ONLY way in my opinion to make him really shine as a great player is let him play the 3, and Pierce play the 2. The Celtics would have an awesome starting lineup if that happens
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: ausbacker on November 16, 2012, 07:07:00 PM
My only issue with Green is the undeserved contract he is on. For a guy making that amount of money, you would expect him to dominate games for stretches. Green hasn't shown that ability unfortunately. He's a nice role player.

Now, of the current players I'd like to have a sit down with, that would be Bass. It's the same crap as last year again: take way too many shots, miss way too many shots. Someone needs to get into his head that he doesn't have to shoot every time he touches the ball.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 16, 2012, 08:00:26 PM
I wouldn't say that Green is 'horrible'.  But he is vastly overpaid at 9m per season, and he's not even a big man, ala Mark Blount.  At least you have some rationale for overpaying a player like that. 

Green isn't even the 6th best player on the Celtics roster yet he's getting paid like a starter.  The NBA has a salary cap of 58m this season.  Jeff Green is taking up 15.5% of that cap.  Making money like that comes with expectations.  So far Green has failed to deliver on those expectations.

Do I want Jeff Green to play better?  Of course I do, he's wearing Celtic Green.  So far is it reasonable to expect any better?  Not until he proves it.  I just hope he plays well enough so he can be a trade chip down the road.  The Celtics roster is in need of an upgrade.  Jeff Green is not that upgrade thus far.

The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
your right hes not the sixth best, he's the fourth and its not even close.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celtics18 on November 16, 2012, 08:37:54 PM
I wouldn't say that Green is 'horrible'.  But he is vastly overpaid at 9m per season, and he's not even a big man, ala Mark Blount.  At least you have some rationale for overpaying a player like that. 

Green isn't even the 6th best player on the Celtics roster yet he's getting paid like a starter.  The NBA has a salary cap of 58m this season.  Jeff Green is taking up 15.5% of that cap.  Making money like that comes with expectations.  So far Green has failed to deliver on those expectations.

Do I want Jeff Green to play better?  Of course I do, he's wearing Celtic Green.  So far is it reasonable to expect any better?  Not until he proves it.  I just hope he plays well enough so he can be a trade chip down the road.  The Celtics roster is in need of an upgrade.  Jeff Green is not that upgrade thus far.

The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
your right hes not the sixth best, he's the fourth and its not even close.

Jeff Green is making $8,375,000.00 this year.  That makes him the seventy-first highest paid player in the NBA.  Some notables making more than him this season include Andris Biedrins, Devin Harris, Rodney Stuckey, Jameer Nelson, Andrea Bargnani, Richard Jeffeson, Ben Gordon, and Corey Magette. 

NBA players are paid a ton of money, even mediocre ones.  Somehow, Celtics fans have decided to pick on Jeff Green's as representing this outrageous sum by league standards.  The top paid players in the league make more than twice what Jeff Green is getting paid. 

He's not being paid like a superstar.  He's being paid like a role player, which is what he is.  Sure, it would be nice if he played better, but that's the case for everyone.  Anyway, personally, I'm not too worried about the size of his contract.   
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: MJohnnyboy on November 16, 2012, 08:40:40 PM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

I think time has proven the Celtics made the right choice not necessarily getting Green but getting rid of Perk.

Perk is a shell of himself and the Thunder are paying him $10 million and they couldn't be angrier about it. Did you not watch how badly the Heat torched him in the finals last year?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 16, 2012, 09:19:21 PM
I wouldn't say that Green is 'horrible'.  But he is vastly overpaid at 9m per season, and he's not even a big man, ala Mark Blount.  At least you have some rationale for overpaying a player like that. 

Green isn't even the 6th best player on the Celtics roster yet he's getting paid like a starter.  The NBA has a salary cap of 58m this season.  Jeff Green is taking up 15.5% of that cap.  Making money like that comes with expectations.  So far Green has failed to deliver on those expectations.

Do I want Jeff Green to play better?  Of course I do, he's wearing Celtic Green.  So far is it reasonable to expect any better?  Not until he proves it.  I just hope he plays well enough so he can be a trade chip down the road.  The Celtics roster is in need of an upgrade.  Jeff Green is not that upgrade thus far.

The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
your right hes not the sixth best, he's the fourth and its not even close.

Jeff Green is making $8,375,000.00 this year.  That makes him the seventy-first highest paid player in the NBA.  Some notables making more than him this season include Andris Biedrins, Devin Harris, Rodney Stuckey, Jameer Nelson, Andrea Bargnani, Richard Jeffeson, Ben Gordon, and Corey Magette. 

NBA players are paid a ton of money, even mediocre ones.  Somehow, Celtics fans have decided to pick on Jeff Green's as representing this outrageous sum by league standards.  The top paid players in the league make more than twice what Jeff Green is getting paid. 

He's not being paid like a superstar.  He's being paid like a role player, which is what he is.  Sure, it would be nice if he played better, but that's the case for everyone.  Anyway, personally, I'm not too worried about the size of his contract.

At 71st, that makes Green paid as you'd like to see a top-tier third man paid.  At his current level, Green is far from a #3 starter.

I was surprised to see Danny give Green so many years at so much money.  I had hoped that Danny had gotten all the bad, long-term contracts out of his system early in his career (Scal, Blount, Raef, etc.)  Recently, he's been much better at only taking on long-term deals for building block players.  I'm not sure that Green fits that mold.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celtics18 on November 16, 2012, 09:26:55 PM
I wouldn't say that Green is 'horrible'.  But he is vastly overpaid at 9m per season, and he's not even a big man, ala Mark Blount.  At least you have some rationale for overpaying a player like that. 

Green isn't even the 6th best player on the Celtics roster yet he's getting paid like a starter.  The NBA has a salary cap of 58m this season.  Jeff Green is taking up 15.5% of that cap.  Making money like that comes with expectations.  So far Green has failed to deliver on those expectations.

Do I want Jeff Green to play better?  Of course I do, he's wearing Celtic Green.  So far is it reasonable to expect any better?  Not until he proves it.  I just hope he plays well enough so he can be a trade chip down the road.  The Celtics roster is in need of an upgrade.  Jeff Green is not that upgrade thus far.

The problem with the original post is imo that headline with "horrible" in caps. You can expect pretty strong answers to that, because some people will consider it very opinionated. It is a harsh description of a player who has contributed to a couple of wins already this season.

Is Green overrated on these boards? He might be, but most of us just hope that he will be a consistant contributor for this team, he doesn't need to be a star and he isn't paid like one. Furthermore it is very early to judge a player who has been out for a year.
your right hes not the sixth best, he's the fourth and its not even close.

Jeff Green is making $8,375,000.00 this year.  That makes him the seventy-first highest paid player in the NBA.  Some notables making more than him this season include Andris Biedrins, Devin Harris, Rodney Stuckey, Jameer Nelson, Andrea Bargnani, Richard Jeffeson, Ben Gordon, and Corey Magette. 

NBA players are paid a ton of money, even mediocre ones.  Somehow, Celtics fans have decided to pick on Jeff Green's as representing this outrageous sum by league standards.  The top paid players in the league make more than twice what Jeff Green is getting paid. 

He's not being paid like a superstar.  He's being paid like a role player, which is what he is.  Sure, it would be nice if he played better, but that's the case for everyone.  Anyway, personally, I'm not too worried about the size of his contract.

At 71st, that makes Green paid as you'd like to see a top-tier third man paid.  At his current level, Green is far from a #3 starter.

I was surprised to see Danny give Green so many years at so much money.  I had hoped that Danny had gotten all the bad, long-term contracts out of his system early in his career (Scal, Blount, Raef, etc.)  Recently, he's been much better at only taking on long-term deals for building block players.  I'm not sure that Green fits that mold.

Green probably won't ever be the third best player on this team as long as KG, Pierce, and Rondo are still on board, but I do think that he has the potential to be solidly fourth.  He's not playing up to that after eight games, but it's still really early.

My point is that folks are acting like he's being paid superstar money.  That's simply not the case.  He's being paid like a really good role player.  I just think people should keep that in mind when reacting to his "enormous" contract.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 16, 2012, 09:50:57 PM
My point is that folks are acting like he's being paid superstar money.  That's simply not the case.  He's being paid like a really good role player.  I just think people should keep that in mind when reacting to his "enormous" contract.

This is true.  At the same time, we're spending roughly 1/6th of the cap on Jeff Green.  That's not the recipe for maintaining flexibility going forward, unless he breaks out.

I think overpaying role players is the quickest way to salary cap hell in the NBA.  Right now, the concern of many is that Jeff Green might be just that type of role player.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 16, 2012, 10:03:01 PM
My point is that folks are acting like he's being paid superstar money.  That's simply not the case.  He's being paid like a really good role player.  I just think people should keep that in mind when reacting to his "enormous" contract.

This is true.  At the same time, we're spending roughly 1/6th of the cap on Jeff Green.  That's not the recipe for maintaining flexibility going forward, unless he breaks out.

I think overpaying role players is the quickest way to salary cap hell in the NBA.  Right now, the concern of many is that Jeff Green might be just that type of role player.

What flexibility are we speaking of? With the new CBA, and the moves we had to make to keep us in not only in contention, but at a chance at the championship, already threw any flexibility we could've had out of the window, for at least 3 years.

So no, Green's contract has little impact on flexibility. In fact, the way we're positioned at the moment, we have a roster that should be able to compete at a high level for the next few seasons, and after that's done, we'll actually have a lot of flexibility going forward... and that's without mentioning that we have some very tradeable assets when we need to.

As is, I think Ainge did a great job at keeping our roster in championship contention without actually breaking our flexibility with outrageous contracts. And Green's is not outrageous regardless of how we may feel about him being overpaid or not.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celtics18 on November 16, 2012, 10:04:09 PM
My point is that folks are acting like he's being paid superstar money.  That's simply not the case.  He's being paid like a really good role player.  I just think people should keep that in mind when reacting to his "enormous" contract.

This is true.  At the same time, we're spending roughly 1/6th of the cap on Jeff Green.  That's not the recipe for maintaining flexibility going forward, unless he breaks out.

I think overpaying role players is the quickest way to salary cap hell in the NBA.  Right now, the concern of many is that Jeff Green might be just that type of role player.

It's a gamble, but at some point you have to take some.  When Rondo got signed to his contract that was a gamble, as well.  At the time, many actually thought Danny was being foolish to throw that kind of money at Rondo. 

It could backfire, but I think it's way too early to call Jeff Green's contract an albatross.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Tr1boy on November 16, 2012, 10:13:57 PM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Kuberski1 on November 16, 2012, 11:24:42 PM
I don't think there's any question that Danny overpaid for Green, at least judging from what we have seen thus far.  It came as a surprise to almost everyone when the details of the contract came out....5-6M a year was what was rumored from memory, and that sounds about right.   Unfortunately, the contract seems to raise expectations of play that he will have a hard time achieving, and could be one of the reasons he tends to force things at times.

Money aside, I do think he can help us - his play against Mil and Utah were definitely factors in those wins.   He can also help Doc manage Pierce's minutes to 30-ish a game, rather than last year's 34....that should help come playoff time.  He will likely never live up to his contract, and he is not the next James Worthy, but he if he continues to play like he has the last few games, he will contribute.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on November 17, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.
(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shaq-face-3.jpg)


not only do da contracts not match but why da hell would u wanna trade a 16ppg career scorer for an offensively challenged dude like Reggie Evans? yeen gotta like Jeff Green but trade proposals like dis are unbelievable mane lol
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: D.o.s. on November 17, 2012, 02:11:50 AM
Even though his grammar makes my eyes bleed, I agree with Celts Fan 92.

No way you trade Jeff Green for Reggie Evans and a late first rounder.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Tr1boy on November 17, 2012, 02:52:35 AM
Reggie Evans this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   11 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   
Total Rebounds           13 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   

Total high ever: 22 vs. Philadelphia 11/24/10
- has pulled down 19, 18, 17, 16, 13-15 several times

Jeff Green this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   5 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   
Total Rebounds           6 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   

Total high ever : 15
- has not pulled alot of games over 8 or 9 rebounds


So 6 or 13, you choose. Evans also plays quite a bit less of minutes per game. For those doubters, you can't understand how important rebounding can be. We rebound say 3-4 more every game this year and we be like 6-2 , instead of like 5-4. It will be an incredibly tough year without a  good rebounder/inside presence guy.  Jeff Greens 6 or 7 points a game can be made up though. I'm not stating they are 1 on 1 the same calibre players. So whatever package we get for Evans + extras for Jeff Green, i would be up for that.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: chambers on November 17, 2012, 03:00:52 AM
Reggie Evans this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   11 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   
Total Rebounds           13 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   

Total high ever: 22 vs. Philadelphia 11/24/10
- has pulled down 19, 18, 17, 16, 13-15 several times

Jeff Green this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   5 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   
Total Rebounds           6 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   

Total high ever : 15
- has not pulled alot of games over 8 or 9 rebounds


So 6 or 13, you choose. Evans also plays quite a bit less of minutes per game. For those doubters, you can't understand how important rebounding can be. We rebound say 3-4 more every game this year and we be like 6-2 , instead of like 5-4. It will be an incredibly tough year without a  good rebounder/inside presence guy.  Jeff Greens 6 or 7 points a game can be made up though. I'm not stating they are 1 on 1 the same calibre players. So whatever package we get for Evans + extras for Jeff Green, i would be up for that. Again not a fan of this timid player

That's cool bro, but no one in the NBA gives up Jeff Green after 6 games for Reggie Evans. Again, he isn't far out of heart surgery.
Did you see him play for OKC? Go watch some old vids.
I'll repeat, NO ONE in the NBA gives up Jeff Green for Reggie Evans lol, that's just insulting.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: D.o.s. on November 17, 2012, 03:23:24 AM
If I'm doing some wishful thinking for a rebounder, I want Kenneth Faried (who I was so excited for when he almost fell to us in 2011. And then Denver swooped in).

Anyway, Reggie Evans is 32, has absolutely no offensive game, doesn't play defense, can't do anything with the ball except grab it (especially when it's attached to Chris Kaman... youtube it), and, as a personal aside...

He is indisputably and, unequivocally one of the most transparent, painful, and unrepentant floppers in the NBA today. He was the worst flopper on FLOP CITY last year. They should give out the Reggie Evans Memorial Shame trophy for flopping. It could be a fake Reggie Evans beard that makes you collapse in a heap whenever you almost come into contact with anything.

So, yeah, he can rebound. Whatever. Someone's got to get the boards on that Nets team, after all.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mctyson on November 17, 2012, 07:34:25 AM
People are flipping out about the cost of Greens contract.  I have to ask:  WHY?  Would he be any better of a player if he was making $7M a year?

The main reason NBA analysts were criticizing the deal was the fact that Green was coming off of a major, major injury. And they were criticizing the years more than the $$.  All of us should remember that before Green went down last year, he was making the exact same amount he is this year.

I am sure Green's agent argued that point during the salary negotiations. 

Let's also remember that Green was locked up for the LONG HAUL.  Paul Pierce will not be starting for us forever.  In fact, he could be done after this year.  Who is our starting SF if that happens?  Jeff Green. 

But the biggest issue I want to counter - getting back to the contract and the $$ - is that the Green signing has done something to prevent Danny from assembling the roster he wanted to build for this year.  Everyone going into this season thought we were at least a deeper team than last year, probably a better team too.  Isn't that the goal year-in, year-out?  Get as much talent as possible on your roster, and go from there?  No one on this board would argue that Green isn't talented.  He is still only 25 years old.  Just getting him on your roster is a bonus, and if you have to pay $1-2M more to do that, then that's what you do in professional sports.

I will only accept criticisms of the contract when and if it prevents the Celtics from acquiring a much-needed player down the road.  And NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REGGIE EVANS.  I am talking about an NBA All-Star caliber player.  I will not complain if the extra $1-2M per year that people on this board seem to think he is not worth winds up costing us another Darko, Sasha, Collins, Marquise Daniels, Troy Murphy, Name Your End of the Bench Guy.  I will not complain even if it costs us a Pietrus or Barbosa.  Those guys do NOT win you championships.  Your top 7 players do.  And like it or not, Green would be in the top 7 on almost every NBA roster.  Most of those guys make good $$$.  That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Mr Green on November 17, 2012, 07:45:20 AM
Poor guy hasn't been given a fair opportunity yet, the season has only just started a couple of weeks ago.

At least wait until after the all star break before forming a mob and chasing him out of Beantown with pitchforks.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 17, 2012, 08:09:07 AM
His contract is 4, 1 longer than Garnett and a bunch of others.

If a team wants a 1 year expiring contract, would they not trade for JG?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 17, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.


I think Green is going to be just fine with us...you saw what he could do against the Jazz...his shot didnt fall(and he didnt get the calls) against brooklyn...but they will.

Lee hasnt exactly been guns blazing out there either(other than the last game)

but these are guys who average double digits in their careers...so they will pick it up.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 17, 2012, 08:38:41 AM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 17, 2012, 08:59:16 AM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 17, 2012, 09:07:34 AM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 17, 2012, 09:19:47 AM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.
(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shaq-face-3.jpg)


not only do da contracts not match but why da hell would u wanna trade a 16ppg career scorer for an offensively challenged dude like Reggie Evans? yeen gotta like Jeff Green but trade proposals like dis are unbelievable mane lol
He's not a career 16ppg scorer.  And Reggie Evans would be a huge help.  I really wanted Ainge to sign Evans.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celtics18 on November 17, 2012, 09:26:14 AM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.

That's true, but eight games into his contract is a little early to determine that he won't play up to it. 
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on November 17, 2012, 09:36:21 AM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.
(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shaq-face-3.jpg)


not only do da contracts not match but why da hell would u wanna trade a 16ppg career scorer for an offensively challenged dude like Reggie Evans? yeen gotta like Jeff Green but trade proposals like dis are unbelievable mane lol
He's not a career 16ppg scorer.  And Reggie Evans would be a huge help.  I really wanted Ainge to sign Evans.
ehh 14ppg still not bad no way in hell im tradin him for reggie evans some of yall would make terrible GM's lol. look Green is still takin time to adjust so im not too hard on him after recovering from heart surgery yall complaining bout dis conract need to fall back cuz Taj Gibson is gettin paid 4 years $42 mil if i aint mistaken there are contracts a lot worse then Green's he  aint as horrible as most of yall say he is
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 09:43:30 AM
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.
(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shaq-face-3.jpg)


not only do da contracts not match but why da hell would u wanna trade a 16ppg career scorer for an offensively challenged dude like Reggie Evans? yeen gotta like Jeff Green but trade proposals like dis are unbelievable mane lol
He's not a career 16ppg scorer.  And Reggie Evans would be a huge help.  I really wanted Ainge to sign Evans.

I didn't, never has a player made more out of one ability than reggie evans.

When you put reggie on the floor, you essentially concede that you will be planing 4 on 5 offensively, barring 1-3 trips a night where he gets an offensive board.

Also, don't be afraid to foul him on those o-rebounds other team, for reggie will quite surely get one FT at best, and is likely to miss both.

And defensively? shoot away dear other team, for while reggie is a fantastic rebounder, he is an average P & R defender at best and can be readily abused in any switch when he gets a quicker player on him. You'll notice reggie back way off, with fear in his eyes.

if you listen close you can hear him thinking "please don't drive...omgdon'tdrive...!.. please just shoot so I can get the rebound if you miss....don't drive!!"

But, if you brick your wide open shot, rest assured reggie will rebound THE HELL out of that basketball.

Look, I'm all for Rebounding, it's a valuable skill we need more off, but not at the expense of every other skill a player could have. There are plenty of other journeymen who rebound SLIGHTLY worse than Evans but don't murder your offensive and Defensive flow when put into a game.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: makaveli on November 17, 2012, 09:57:59 AM
I've said this a hundred times, Jeff is playing 80% of time very SOFT, and that is one thing this team in NOT
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 17, 2012, 10:54:02 AM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.

Next 3 seasons we won't be under the salary cap so it's inconsequential. So no, the cap hit is really not disproportionate.

At best, it might factor in preventing us from using the MLE next year, but I'm not going to cry about that... as is, we still have a chance at still being under enough to use it and still have Green on board.

And when our player's salaries expire, we only have 15 million committed to salary (assuming Green accepts his player option). That's A LOT of cap flexibility, and let's not ignore that the 15 million that is commited are for expiring contracts (Lee and Green), two players that will still be considered young and should have some good buying power if we need to use them in a trade.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Tr1boy on November 17, 2012, 01:34:41 PM
For me with the whole reggie evans thing goes back to losing perkins. These players leave it all out on the court, scrap to get rebounds, and influence the team that can't be measured on the stat sheets.

We still have KG but he is getting older and not a full fledged interior guy.

Our team is imbalanced ever since losing perk last year (stiemmer/hollins tried their best) and nothing was fixed over the summer.

lastly look at it this way, last year without Green for pretty much most of the year we went really far. We didn't need him last year and this year is proving not to be much of a factor. What if last year we had a tough interior presence though. hard fouls on bosh, wade, james to get them to think twice before driving, grab crucial rebounds to prevent 2nd scoring chances?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 17, 2012, 01:51:30 PM
Green is looking like a horrible player again today....

Pierce is short and getting old , he can't carry the team forever... ???

We need some  HELP REALLY soon in the form of BIGS to play in the paint or we are going to do squat.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 17, 2012, 03:02:13 PM
Green is looking like a horrible player again today....

Pierce is short and getting old , he can't carry the team forever... ???

We need some  HELP REALLY soon in the form of BIGS to play in the paint or we are going to do squat.

he ended up having a decent game 9points on 4/6 shooting..

I think part of the problem is he's not being used correctly..look, in the 3rd/4th they posted him up and ran plays for him..thats how you get Green involved, and thats when he exploded and made an impact...

Not having him stand around in a corner while Barbosa dribbles around...in the 3rd they changed their philosophy and actually called post up plays for green

by the end of the year I bet he'll be averaging 12ppg. which is all we really need from him.

its the same problem for Courtney Lee. they need to run some plays for him to get him going.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 03:08:50 PM
In the end all that matters is if we win a championship. Jeff Green will NOT be any more help to us towards this than a mediocre role player. Sure he may help us win a game or two but he will cause us to lose just as many with his poor decision making and horrible defense and rebounding. In the end the net result will be the same as that of the average role player.

How he hurts us is his contract takes up a significant portion of the team's salary meaning we will not be able to sign an actual contributor who helps us WIN when it matters. Jeff Green will either be injured or play so poorly he will see little playing time come time for the playoffs. His play becomes worse when the stakes are high and I've seen nothing out of him to suggest he will help the team in any meaningful games.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on November 17, 2012, 03:09:14 PM
Green just needs to be more aggressive nd look for his shot more he aint horrible or a scrub like a lot of yall claim lol
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 17, 2012, 03:09:29 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: wdleehi on November 17, 2012, 03:15:33 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.


And that makes it OK?


Title: $9million is not really a disastrous contract at all
Post by: cman88 on November 17, 2012, 03:16:21 PM
the way people talk about green's contract you might think he was being paid all-star money.

fans may point to Rajon Rondo/Garnetts contracts to that..but they are vastly UNDERPAID in the grand scheme of things..Rondo would probably demand a max contract with his talent level...and Garnett took a discount to stay with his $11million

While green may be in somewhat of a slump right now, hes a career 13ppg player, and compared to other Small forwards with similar Stats i'm not seeing where it is outrageous.

Gerald wallace - $10million
Andrei Kirilenko - $9.77 million
Nicholas Batum - $10.8 million
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 03:20:02 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: tenn_smoothie on November 17, 2012, 03:22:56 PM
Mid-game over-reaction threads rarely turn out well for the OP, right?

Mid-game reaction ??

the OP's opinion is based on the two seasons Green has been able to play with the Celts. if you think he is bad now (which he is), just wait for the playoffs when the games count even more.

Jeff Green is the complete opposite of mentally or physically tough - he doesn't have to be an enforcer, he's a finesse style player, fine. but that doesn't mean he should shy away from contact and not hold his ground, especially close to the basket.

that trade continues to haunt the Celtics - Danny just had to try to prove how clever he was. he's like a compulsive gambler who hadn't made a bet in a long time when he dealt our championship center away two years ago. things were going along a little too smoothly for Danny (we were leading the East at the time, probably headed to the finals with payback in our hearts) - he couldn't take it, so he had to make a big trade to stir some drama up. that's how those people are. laugh if you want, but look at Danny's impulsive trade-o-matic history if you think i'm over-analyzing.
Title: Re: $9million is not really a disastrous contract at all
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 03:24:19 PM
the way people talk about green's contract you might think he was being paid all-star money.

fans may point to Rajon Rondo/Garnetts contracts to that..but they are vastly UNDERPAID in the grand scheme of things..Rondo would probably demand a max contract with his talent level...and Garnett took a discount to stay with his $11million

While green may be in somewhat of a slump right now, hes a career 13ppg player, and compared to other Small forwards with similar Stats i'm not seeing where it is outrageous.

Gerald wallace - $10million
Andrei Kirilenko - $9.77 million
Nicholas Batum - $10.8 million

Both Wallace and Batum are considerably better than Green in every meaningful area of the game. Kirlilenko's contract is 2 years and at this point I would still much rather have him than Green.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 17, 2012, 03:24:35 PM
I would be interested to know the minutes/role batum is playing vs. green though...

right now, Green is playing BEHIND paul pierce and is taking around 6-7 shots a game...you up those shots, the stats go up.

its the same argument I see people say with other PG's vs Rondo.."well they score more than him!" ya, but they also take more shots
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 17, 2012, 03:26:03 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
worse relative to whats expected of them Im not talking about whose scoring less points per game genius
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 17, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
Only in Celticsblog, we win by 18 and we're hung up on talking trash about a guy who was +15 for the game on 4-6 shooting for 9 points.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 03:31:00 PM
I would be interested to know the minutes/role batum is playing vs. green though...

right now, Green is playing BEHIND paul pierce and is taking around 6-7 shots a game...you up those shots, the stats go up.

its the same argument I see people say with other PG's vs Rondo.."well they score more than him!" ya, but they also take more shots

Good players find a way to be effective despite things like this. If Green is taking less shots against lesser competition his fg% should be much higher.

Nicholas Batum's percentages:

FG%: .482   
3P%: .395,

Green:
FG%: .42

Not to mention Batum was overpaid for his defense (1.8 blks, 2.3 steals) Jeff Green is paid for his offense. So far Batum is averaging twice as much while being more efficient in every area.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 17, 2012, 03:34:31 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 03:35:03 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
worse relative to whats expected of them Im not talking about whose scoring less points per game genius

That's a great way to build a championship team lets compare ourselves to bottom dwelling teams that've made worse decisions so we can feel good about our own situation.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 03:39:10 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

Here's the list:

Jeff Green   8,375,000
Shawn Marion   8,396,364
Devin Harris   8,500,000
Rodney Stuckey   8,500,000
Mo Williams   8,500,000
Jameer Nelson   8,600,000
Paul Millsap   8,603,633
Ryan Anderson   8,700,000
Steve Nash   8,900,000
Andris Biedrins   9,000,000
Danilo Gallinari   9,439,000
Tim Duncan   9,638,554
Gerald Wallace   9,682,435
Andrei Kirilenko   9,779,349
JaVale McGee   10,000,000
David West   10,000,000
Andrea Bargnani   10,000,000
Stephen Jackson   10,059,750
Richard Jefferson   10,164,000
DeAndre Jordan   10,532,977
Jose Calderon   10,561,982
Nicolas Batum   10,825,000
Corey Maggette   10,924,138
Rajon Rondo   11,000,000
Monta Ellis   11,000,000
Joakim Noah   11,300,000
Kevin Garnett   11,566,265
Hidayet Turkoglu   11,815,850
Al Horford   12,000,000
Kris Humphries   12,000,000
Ben Gordon   12,400,000
Kevin Martin   12,439,675
Tony Parker   12,500,000
David Lee   12,744,000
Andrew Bogut   13,000,000
Nene   13,000,000
Danny Granger   13,058,606
Josh Smith   13,200,000
Luol Deng   13,305,000
Emeka Okafor   13,490,000
LaMarcus Aldridge   13,500,000
Tyson Chandler   13,604,188
Brook Lopez   13,668,750
Roy Hibbert   13,668,750
Kevin Love   13,668,750
Eric Gordon   13,668,750
Russell Westbrook   13,668,750
(Rashard Lewis)   13,699,551
Marc Gasol   13,891,359
Emanuel Ginobili   14,107,491
Andre Iguodala   14,968,250
Carlos Boozer   15,000,000
Al Jefferson   15,000,000
Derrick Rose   16,402,552
Rudy Gay   16,460,538
Zach Randolph   16,500,000
Kevin Durant   16,669,629
Paul Pierce   16,790,345
Andrew Bynum    16,889,000
Deron Williams   17,177,795
Dwyane Wade   17,182,000
Chris Bosh   17,545,000
LeBron James   17,545,000
Chris Paul   17,779,458
Pau Gasol   19,000,000
Dwight Howard   19,536,360
Joe Johnson   19,752,645
Amar'e Stoudemire   19,948,799
Carmelo Anthony   20,463,024
Dirk Nowitzki   20,907,128
Kobe Bryant   27,849,149


i get Devin Harris, Maggette, Richard jefferson, stuckey, Turkoglu

With considerations for Dirk, Nash, Nene, Granger, Bogut, Love, Eric gordon, Rose, Bynum, Amare who are all clearly substantially better but injured.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 03:39:39 PM
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
worse relative to whats expected of them Im not talking about whose scoring less points per game genius

That's a great way to build a championship team lets compare ourselves to bottom dwelling teams that've made worse decisions so we can feel good about our own situation.

So what veteran minimum player did you want at the SF spot instead of Green who would be getting us 9-12 points a night as he's doing and playing pretty solid defense?

I'll wait.

Because if we haden't spent the money on his contract, we would have only had enough left offer the veteran minimum.

also, desipte people's assertions, isn't a terrible contract based on what SF's with JG's skill set make, nor is it anything like untradeable.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 17, 2012, 03:43:09 PM
You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 03:48:46 PM
You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 17, 2012, 03:58:47 PM
You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.


no ones yet to answer my question, at what point do you say green is playing good?

his 12pt game against the bucks wasnt good enough, nor was his 16point game against utah, or his 9point game today on 4/6 shooting where he was +15

how many points does green need to score before you say 'he had a good game"

not saying he has been great, but he's clearly on the right track..and in building a championship team you want the most talent on there..clearly Green>> vet min player
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 04:05:38 PM
You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.


no ones yet to answer my question, at what point do you say green is playing good?

his 12pt game against the bucks wasnt good enough, nor was his 16point game against utah, or his 9point game today on 4/6 shooting where he was +15

how many points does green need to score before you say 'he had a good game"

not saying he has been great, but he's clearly on the right track..and in building a championship team you want the most talent on there..clearly Green>> vet min player

Be a better defender consistently. Get more rebounds. Do more on offense than stand around and shoot contested jumpers. I'll be ecstatic if he could bring his PPG to 12 and play a sort of Carl Landry role off the bench.
Title: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: ctrey on November 17, 2012, 04:19:56 PM
Some one talk me off the ledge on this one. At first I figured, "Well, at least Perk has run out of gas and we did not overpay to keep the shell of who he used to be" but now we have this year plus three more for a guy averaging 8 points and 3 boards. Wait, do not forget the TWO AND A HALF TURNOVERS PER GAME!!! Rondo averages 3. Of course Rondo also averages 12 assists and Green averages, wait for it, 0.6 assists a game. This guy makes more turnovers than a Pepperidge Farm bakery.

We desperately need guys who can attack and draw fouls. Who can run the wings with Rondo. Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

Is this some rule Danny like to live by: "One incredibly dumb deal every few years to keep all the bars and liquor stores in New England open." I thought as a Mormon he would want us off the sauce.

Help me please. It is before noon here in Houston and I am reaching for my Knob Creek. Tell me I am missing something.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: 5.9.20.34.43 on November 17, 2012, 04:23:13 PM
Call him 6th man. For now. Salary offset for now by the Jet, Lee and LB. I'm happy the way both Green and Sully are developing.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: BballTim on November 17, 2012, 04:23:46 PM
Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

  Probably not, given our cap situation.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 04:24:54 PM
The problem with Green is besides being athletically gifted and being known as a scorer he brings nothing else to the table when he isn't scoring. He won't be winning us any games with his basketball IQ or hustle and constantly makes poor decisions on offense while playing subpar D. He is a huge liability when he's not scoring and he seems like the type of player who will completely disappear when you most need him. There is no right role for Green he's not good enough to be a starter and doesn't know his role on the bench.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 17, 2012, 04:25:33 PM
Green is playing OK on the defensive side from what I've seen.  He has recently been hitting his jumper.  He is clearly being told to stand at the corner and spread the floor on O.  I think he is also being told not to hit the offensive glass, but rather to get up the court to be ready defensively.  He seems to be thinking too much and his body language reeks of low-confidence.  However, he is showing himself in spurts and I still think he may be able to contribute a lot to this team.  His salary means nothing to me -- money has been allocated, it's a done deal.  His ability to help the C's win is all that matters.  He is not a horrible player, but has not shown himself to be a consistent contributor.  I believe Doc will gradually push to get him more in the flow offensively -- guys are not looking for him on the wing, they are almost always going the other direction with the ball.  Eventually, they will need to push him to see if he can break through, but for now I think Doc wants him to gain comfort and confidence playing D and taking what comes his way offensively.

I am absolutely willing to give it time. Seeing this thread title in the forum topics every day is a little unfair in my opinion. But everyone's entitled to their point of view.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 04:25:47 PM
You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.


no ones yet to answer my question, at what point do you say green is playing good?

his 12pt game against the bucks wasnt good enough, nor was his 16point game against utah, or his 9point game today on 4/6 shooting where he was +15

how many points does green need to score before you say 'he had a good game"

not saying he has been great, but he's clearly on the right track..and in building a championship team you want the most talent on there..clearly Green>> vet min player

Be a better defender consistently. Get more rebounds. Do more on offense than stand around and shoot contested jumpers. I'll be ecstatic if he could bring his PPG to 12 and play a sort of Carl Landry role off the bench.

Yep. If he's going to be a highly paid bench player, he needs to be efficient in his 20-30 minutes. If he's the third to fifth option on offense, he needs to shoot a much much higher percentage to be good. Defend better. actually grab rebounds at a solid or better rate. essentially he needs to be better across the board. Right now he's below average across the board, but paid like an above average starter.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: ctrey on November 17, 2012, 04:30:55 PM
Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

  Probably not, given our cap situation.

But since he was a free agent we could have just spent that money elsewhere if I am not correct. We had some cap room during free agency, we used a lot of it to pay Green who was unrestricted.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 04:32:34 PM
Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

  Probably not, given our cap situation.

But since he was a free agent we could have just spent that money elsewhere if I am not correct. We had some cap room during free agency, we used a lot of it to pay Green who was unrestricted.

You are 100% incorrect, we had no cap room. We were able to make the offer to Green because of Bird rights.

Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: Celtics18 on November 17, 2012, 04:32:55 PM
Some one talk me off the ledge on this one. At first I figured, "Well, at least Perk has run out of gas and we did not overpay to keep the shell of who he used to be" but now we have this year plus three more for a guy averaging 8 points and 3 boards. Wait, do not forget the TWO AND A HALF TURNOVERS PER GAME!!! Rondo averages 3. Of course Rondo also averages 12 assists and Green averages, wait for it, 0.6 assists a game. This guy makes more turnovers than a Pepperidge Farm bakery.

We desperately need guys who can attack and draw fouls. Who can run the wings with Rondo. Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

Is this some rule Danny like to live by: "One incredibly dumb deal every few years to keep all the bars and liquor stores in New England open." I thought as a Mormon he would want us off the sauce.

Help me please. It is before noon here in Houston and I am reaching for my Knob Creek. Tell me I am missing something.

Can't help.  You may as well just hit that bottle of whiskey hard. 
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 04:34:15 PM
The problem with Green is besides being athletically gifted and being known as a scorer he brings nothing else to the table when he isn't scoring. He won't be winning us any games with his basketball IQ or hustle and constantly makes poor decisions on offense while playing subpar D. He is a huge liability when he's not scoring and he seems like the type of player who will completely disappear when you most need him. There is no right role for Green he's not good enough to be a starter and doesn't know his role on the bench.

so he didn't help win that Utah game with a strip or the Washington game with a late steal?

That must have been a different #8, who let walker in here?!?!

Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: ctrey on November 17, 2012, 04:38:48 PM
Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

  Probably not, given our cap situation.

But since he was a free agent we could have just spent that money elsewhere if I am not correct. We had some cap room during free agency, we used a lot of it to pay Green who was unrestricted.

You are 100% incorrect, we had no cap room. We were able to make the offer to Green because of Bird rights.

Alright, thanks. I was not sure about it. I thought we had some money under the cap. Frankly I would rather have had Michael Beasley than Jeff Green.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 04:40:38 PM
Was there nobody else we could have picked up for 9 million a year?

  Probably not, given our cap situation.

But since he was a free agent we could have just spent that money elsewhere if I am not correct. We had some cap room during free agency, we used a lot of it to pay Green who was unrestricted.

You are 100% incorrect, we had no cap room. We were able to make the offer to Green because of Bird rights.

Alright, thanks. I was not sure about it. I thought we had some money under the cap. Frankly I would rather have had Michael Beasley than Jeff Green.

How would that have been accomplished?

That's why I'm still waiting on Jam to name me the solid defender off the bench who can put in 9-12 points a night he'd rather have had at the League minimum to play 3/4 minutes for us.

Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: Redz on November 17, 2012, 04:41:40 PM
Danny doesn't drink, but I'm sure he wouldn't hold it against you had a few.
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
in retrospect, had we known we were going to get barbosa for the min we could have let green walk, done the lee trade, and used the MLE on a SF instead of Terry.


of course, WHERE IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE IT WAS GREEN FOR 4/36 OR NO GREEN???? WHO WAS OFFERING HIM MONEY!! WHO HAD SPACE!!! WHO SAYS WE COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN HIM FOR 5-6 MIL PER YEAR!!
Title: Re: Green making 9 mil per year for 4 years. Does Danny want to keep me drinking?
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
in retrospect, had we known we were going to get barbosa for the min we could have let green walk, done the lee trade, and used the MLE on a SF instead of Terry.


of course, WHERE IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE IT WAS GREEN FOR 4/36 OR NO GREEN???? WHO WAS OFFERING HIM MONEY!! WHO HAD SPACE!!! WHO SAYS WE COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN HIM FOR 5-6 MIL PER YEAR!!

But then we wouldn't have Jason Terry....And I think JET has been very good for us so far, barring the first few games. He was huge today.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: tenn_smoothie on November 17, 2012, 04:53:16 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 17, 2012, 05:03:54 PM
Glad the threads were combined.

Had Danny let Green go, there is a very strong chance that he'd be starting for a lesser team, would be scoring 12-16 PPG in an offense where he'd be featured and less restrained, and there would be a 20 page thread here entitled "Ainge is a HORRIBLE GM, he gave away Perk for nothing!"

There have been numerous examples of being too quick to pass judgement here -- give Green at least 20 games to find himself. 
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 05:12:30 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 05:14:42 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 17, 2012, 05:16:39 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.

TP. Couldn't agree more about the $$, especially in this case.  All he needs to do is show his talent (which I think he will) and he will be marketable in a package.  In fact, going in a trade with one of the lower salaried guys will be tempting for a team wanting to get potential in return for a 10 mil veteran (or package).

But my hope is he contributes consistently here.  I don't care if he contributes $9 million worth.  Just help this team on a regular basis.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 05:23:22 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.

did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 06:17:32 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.

did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

Yep. He has never exceeded MLE or slightly above money. Ever. His numbers have been consistently inefficient, have not improved with NBA experience, and have been inflated by huge minutes. 15 points per game in over 35 minutes at an inefficient clip is, frankly, extremely unimpressively average, a completely empty number, unless that player brings something else to the table, like: Defense, Rebounding, Assist/playmaking, or a cheap contract. Green used to be cheap, but now has none of the other stuff.

Edit: Essentially, at no point in his career has he ever shown any indication that he is even as good, let alone better, than marvin williams or al harrington, both of whom have been considered overpaid why both were making less than green in an older CBA that had higher average contracts.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 06:54:16 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.

did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

He was averaging 16.5 ppg in 37 minutes of playing time on a team that had no offensive options besides Kevin Durant.

Green is lucky he was drafted so high to a team that was starved for scoring. If he was drafted onto any other team with slightly more offensive talents no one would even be talking about this guy.

Green won't ever be good enough as a starter on a contending team and doesn't have enough basketball IQ or play with the intensity to even be a key role player in a contender like Posey. He is a solid number 2 option on a bottom dwelling team similar to a poor man's corey maggette.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: D.o.s. on November 17, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
a poor man's corey maggette.

Now there is something I thought I'd never read.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
a poor man's corey maggette.

Now there is something I thought I'd never read.

Maggette averaged 22ppg 7rb and 3.5ast at one point in his career. Green is about on par with the current maggette.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.

did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

He was averaging 16.5 ppg in 37 minutes of playing time on a team that had no offensive options besides Kevin Durant.

Green is lucky he was drafted so high to a team that was starved for scoring.

Are you kidding me?

The Jeff Green trade happened in 2010.

These three guys say hi!

(http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/allstar/2011/russell_westbrook_250.jpg)



(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/2163061/20121001_ajw_ax3_109.0_standard_352.0.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZKNDSh9BRPSmngAGAao7-opd4JgmQ6zGHvT9f0QCa39TFDjTFCg)


Now you can argue that harden was a rookie and the 4th offensive option that year (although he still averaged 13 PPG in that, his second season) but Green was traded so that they could get ibaka more playing time, since Green was hogging the minutes at the 4 due to Durant having the 3 on lock down, and add toughness via perk, but Scorers were not a problem for the 2010 Thunder.

To say that the 2010 thunder lacked scoring outside durant might be the most ridiculous statement in a long line of ridiculous statements here on celticsblog.

What they lacked was defense. that's why they were willing to give up a scorer to get it.

Just so were clear, this team that was "starved for scoring behind Durant" scored 104 points a game that year.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011OKC3.HTM

JG's stats were clearly affected by their lack of offensive options  ::)
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jowwwman on November 17, 2012, 07:50:09 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.

did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

He was averaging 16.5 ppg in 37 minutes of playing time on a team that had no offensive options besides Kevin Durant.

Green is lucky he was drafted so high to a team that was starved for scoring.

Are you kidding me?

The Jeff Green trade happened in 2010.

These three guys say hi!

(http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/allstar/2011/russell_westbrook_250.jpg)



(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/2163061/20121001_ajw_ax3_109.0_standard_352.0.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZKNDSh9BRPSmngAGAao7-opd4JgmQ6zGHvT9f0QCa39TFDjTFCg)


Now you can argue that harden was a rookie and the 4th offensive option that year (although he still averaged 13 PPG in that, his second season) but Green was traded so that they could get ibaka more playing time, since Green was hogging the minutes at the 4 due to Durant having the 3 on lock down, and add toughness via perk, but Scorers were not a problem for the 2010 Thunder.

To say that the 2010 thunder lacked scoring outside durant might be the most ridiculous statement in a long line of ridiculous statements here on celticsblog.

What they lacked was defense. that's why they were willing to give up a scorer to get it.

Just so were clear, this team that was "starved for scoring behind Durant" scored 104 points a game that year.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011OKC3.HTM

JG's stats were clearly affected by their lack of offensive options  ::)

I was talking about the 2008 season. Why don't you read the post I was replying to before you gloat.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on November 17, 2012, 07:59:21 PM
just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25 minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role

11 - 12 ppg would be fine - it's the lack of rebounding and assists that bother me stat-wise. he is supposed to be this all-around facilitator type player and he has not been.

but the worst part is his lack of toughness. he's not expected to be any kind of enforcer, but he could at least hold his ground out there and he does tend to disappear in the middle of tough games against tough teams. the guy just has no presence on the court.

if he were our 8th man and we were paying him , say, $5 mil, than ............on second thought, i still wouldn't want him. he simply does not fit this team's personality and i don't see him making any difference when he's on the court - he doesn't add anything towards winning games.

This is more of a side issue, Why do fans get obsessed with what a player makes? It's not my money, If Wick wants to pay Jeff about 2 million more than I think he's worth a year what do I care?

I mean, it would be diffrent if it affected who we could have brought in this year, but it didn't because we are already well over the cap and had to use bird rights on him.

Plus, 8 mill a year = easily tradable. most starters worth a darn are making that kinda money, so I'm not to concerned about it going forward.


well, it kind of did. Because we used the MLE we are hard-capped, and therefore have severe trade restrictions, so if a good trade becomes available, we cannot do it if we take on more salary than we give out.

Second, 8 mil per year is easily tradeable if the player is good. So far, green has shown no evidence that he is. Yes, starters worth a darn are making that amount of money. Problem is, thus far green is not worth a darn.

Third, no team has made overpaying for role players long term a key part of a successful long term strategy. That's the kind of thinking the Knicks usually employ.

You assume they think he's a role player long term. How long do you think Pierce has, realistically, in his legs 2 years? mabey 3?

I would not be shocked to see JG starting for this team within two years.

Yes, so he may be a starter then. But likely still not worth a darn.

did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

He was averaging 16.5 ppg in 37 minutes of playing time on a team that had no offensive options besides Kevin Durant.

Green is lucky he was drafted so high to a team that was starved for scoring.

Are you kidding me?

The Jeff Green trade happened in 2010.

These three guys say hi!

(http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/allstar/2011/russell_westbrook_250.jpg)



(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/2163061/20121001_ajw_ax3_109.0_standard_352.0.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZKNDSh9BRPSmngAGAao7-opd4JgmQ6zGHvT9f0QCa39TFDjTFCg)


Now you can argue that harden was a rookie and the 4th offensive option that year (although he still averaged 13 PPG in that, his second season) but Green was traded so that they could get ibaka more playing time, since Green was hogging the minutes at the 4 due to Durant having the 3 on lock down, and add toughness via perk, but Scorers were not a problem for the 2010 Thunder.

To say that the 2010 thunder lacked scoring outside durant might be the most ridiculous statement in a long line of ridiculous statements here on celticsblog.

What they lacked was defense. that's why they were willing to give up a scorer to get it.

Just so were clear, this team that was "starved for scoring behind Durant" scored 104 points a game that year.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011OKC3.HTM

JG's stats were clearly affected by their lack of offensive options  ::)

I was talking about the 2008 season. Why don't you read the post I was replying to before you gloat.

No you weren't. you were replying to my post about Green's average PPG during his OKC career before the trade. Don't get all upset because facts didn't bare out your gut feelings.

If you want to change your argument though, go right ahead. If you go Just by that year, which is what I assume you want to do now, His PPG average as the third option for just that year was 15.2 PPG.

Somehow they got all this scoring yet he was still right about where he had been as a starter, though his rebounds dipped by 1.5 to a bit over 5.

Assuming he takes over for Pierce and repeats 15/5 numbers with good defense, then he's a good bridge to our next SF, If he improves on that, then 8 mill is a bargain.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on November 17, 2012, 09:12:42 PM
You said this:

Quote
did you feel that way when he was averaging 16.5 PPG and 7 rebounds playing out of position in OKC before they got Ibaka?

I think he'd be fine as one of your top options on offense, assuming the Celtics pushed the ball, which is what rondo does when the old guys get off the floor.

He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

Clearly this refers to one single season: 08-09, when Green played 36.8 mpg and averaged 16.5 ppg, 6.6 ppg (not quite 7). His career averages on OKC were less than that, since this was easily his best single season of his career. In this season he was generally the second option on a 23 win team that had Durant and a Rookie Westbrook.

As for out of position, that should generally affect his defense, and it did. he was terrible. But as a SF playing PF, his rebounds should have been inflated; 6.6 is terrible for a 37 minute PF and would be good for a true SF. 16.5 ppg, again, his career best, is not that great for the second scoring option for someone playing 37 minutes per game. And he's completely plateaued, with no improvement since that time.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: ChefEricT on November 17, 2012, 09:38:36 PM
I disagree.  I feel like everyone on this team, with the exception of Rondo, Pierce and KG, is trying to find their place.  I think as a SF Green is better than as a PF.  He has tons of potential.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Shad0wman on November 26, 2012, 03:13:21 AM
I'm just going to leave this here, I will keep coming back every week or so to just keep reminding you.

I hear JG isn't so happy with all his detractors, critics, etc.

IRONY!

So here ya go champ.

 Hey Jeff Green, I'm happy to hear that you can read. If you ever run out of that money you stole from

the CELTICS. I’m sure you can find a job somewhere. I can tell you though right now, Celtics are the only team that will have you, I suggest you just start doing what you get paid MORE MONEY THAN GOD HAS to do your job. If not, watch out for those soda bombs through drive thrus, or maybe just a nice quiet Library job, it fits your demeanor.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mrpoundforpound on November 26, 2012, 03:27:46 AM
I'm just going to leave this here, I will keep coming back every week or so to just keep reminding you.

I hear JG isn't so happy with all his detractors, critics, etc.

IRONY!

So here ya go champ.

 Hey Jeff Green, I'm happy to hear that you can read. If you ever run out of that money you stole from

the CELTICS. I’m sure you can find a job somewhere. I can tell you though right now, Celtics are the only team that will have you, I suggest you just start doing what you get paid MORE MONEY THAN GOD HAS to do your job. If not, watch out for those soda bombs through drive thrus, or maybe just a nice quiet Library job, it fits your demeanor.

Did you see his game against OKC? showed some flashes of brilliance and that he can be the future leader of this team. Jeff just got back from surgery give the man some time hes got all the potential in the world.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 26, 2012, 04:40:15 AM
Every time he has a good game like he had against OKC he follows it up with a 1pt 2reb game like he had against Orlando.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: raynman on November 26, 2012, 05:43:45 AM
1pt , 2 rb, 0-9 FG... Thank you Jeff Green for causing me what would have been a close win this week in my fantasy league.. Now I'm 3-1!  >:(
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: jdz101 on November 26, 2012, 05:47:36 AM
Every time he has a good game like he had against OKC he follows it up with a 1pt 2reb game like he had against Orlando.

Different people contributed off the bench this game. That's what makes a good bench. Jeff made an effort to be aggressive this game, the shots just didn't fall.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: anthony83 on November 26, 2012, 06:07:20 AM
Jeff Green is too soft, Danny Ainge must to try some trade in trade deadline. Green is a player without blood, I already said, Green is not worth 9 million dollars, I think excesive his salary.

 Celtics must to try trades, Big Al Jefferson, Josh Smith...
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: chambers on November 26, 2012, 06:26:03 AM
The positive thing about green tonight is that he made an effort and didn't stand back.
I like that, and I don't mind if he can't get his shot to fall. He has to keep taking his shot and going to the rim.
It was a different kind of bad game.
He played with heart, the ball just didn't go in.

Remember it could take another 20 games for him to get close to what we need. He couldn't walk 9 months ago.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 26, 2012, 06:31:02 AM
From Forsberg (Doc on the Magic game):

Quote
"I thought Jeff played great, he just didn’t score," Rivers said. "He blocked shots, rebounded -- just played a good floor game for us. He just missed some makeable shots, but you can’t do anything about that."

I missed all but the first half of the game. Only saw him miss a couple shots and benched. Can anyone say that this is the case?

I'm hoping he continues working on this if this is indeed the case.

Bass has done exactly this. Despite having some bad games scoring, he's rebounded, brought energy on D and energy in general.

Surprisingly, Barbosa has done so too. And even the Jet. Neither were known for their defense but have played great D.

Jeff Green could definitely do more than scoring. His size and athleticism makes it possible. Rebounding, making a bigger difference on D...kind of like what he's done at the end of the Nets and the Bucks games so far this year.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: wdleehi on November 26, 2012, 07:07:46 AM
Jeff Green is set up to look like a failure in the fans eyes for the following reason:

1)  His contract is too big.  There are certain expectations for a player making that much.  He has rarely played at that level.

2)  He was traded for Perk. 

3)  The year he missed and the Celtics had a good playoffs has fans "romanticizing" of what could have been with "near star level" Green. 


Green is a good player.  He is looking like the player he was with the Thunder. 

He is not the player some fans are trying to build him up to and thus, he is becoming a disappointment to those who got their hopes up.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Who on November 26, 2012, 07:45:59 AM
Jeff Green is set up to look like a failure in the fans eyes for the following reason:

1)  His contract is too big.  There are certain expectations for a player making that much.  He has rarely played at that level.

2)  He was traded for Perk. 

3)  The year he missed and the Celtics had a good playoffs has fans "romanticizing" of what could have been with "near star level" Green. 


Green is a good player.  He is looking like the player he was with the Thunder. 

He is not the player some fans are trying to build him up to and thus, he is becoming a disappointment to those who got their hopes up.

I think the biggest problem is the lack of minutes.

It's tough for a 20-25mpg guy to show he is worth $9 million.

If Green was playing 35mpg and scoring 15-17ppg, fans would be a lot more open to Green earning that $9 million.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 26, 2012, 08:26:33 AM
From Forsberg (Doc on the Magic game):

Quote
"I thought Jeff played great, he just didn’t score," Rivers said. "He blocked shots, rebounded -- just played a good floor game for us. He just missed some makeable shots, but you can’t do anything about that."

I missed all but the first half of the game. Only saw him miss a couple shots and benched. Can anyone say that this is the case?

I'm hoping he continues working on this if this is indeed the case.

Bass has done exactly this. Despite having some bad games scoring, he's rebounded, brought energy on D and energy in general.

Surprisingly, Barbosa has done so too. And even the Jet. Neither were known for their defense but have played great D.

Jeff Green could definitely do more than scoring. His size and athleticism makes it possible. Rebounding, making a bigger difference on D...kind of like what he's done at the end of the Nets and the Bucks games so far this year.
Funny quote by Doc.  He blocked shots, he rebounded... for grand totals of 1 block and 2 rebounds.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: wdleehi on November 26, 2012, 08:44:20 AM
Jeff Green is set up to look like a failure in the fans eyes for the following reason:

1)  His contract is too big.  There are certain expectations for a player making that much.  He has rarely played at that level.

2)  He was traded for Perk. 

3)  The year he missed and the Celtics had a good playoffs has fans "romanticizing" of what could have been with "near star level" Green. 


Green is a good player.  He is looking like the player he was with the Thunder. 

He is not the player some fans are trying to build him up to and thus, he is becoming a disappointment to those who got their hopes up.

I think the biggest problem is the lack of minutes.

It's tough for a 20-25mpg guy to show he is worth $9 million.

If Green was playing 35mpg and scoring 15-17ppg, fans would be a lot more open to Green earning that $9 million.


But that is not in the cards for Green unless Pierce is injured. 

Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 26, 2012, 08:55:02 AM
Green looked very tired last night to me, his shots were all short or the rim , his dunk attempt weak , his reactions seems slow.  It could be , despite appearing strong , maybe he truley hasn't recovered his abiliity to march into each and every game yet with a full tank of gas.

I fault Doc here, as a coach he should be more intouch with a players body language .  Green just didn't have it last night.  SO why screw up the chance to win forcing something out of a player than an't gonna happen?

Green made PP look 10 years younger last night.

Overall the Celtics should have blown the Magic out, the Magic sucked horrible , the Celtics seemed to be going though the motion of a game. DOing just enought to win.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: action781 on November 26, 2012, 10:03:43 AM
From Forsberg (Doc on the Magic game):

Quote
"I thought Jeff played great, he just didn’t score," Rivers said. "He blocked shots, rebounded -- just played a good floor game for us. He just missed some makeable shots, but you can’t do anything about that."

I missed all but the first half of the game. Only saw him miss a couple shots and benched. Can anyone say that this is the case?

I'm hoping he continues working on this if this is indeed the case.

Bass has done exactly this. Despite having some bad games scoring, he's rebounded, brought energy on D and energy in general.

Surprisingly, Barbosa has done so too. And even the Jet. Neither were known for their defense but have played great D.

Jeff Green could definitely do more than scoring. His size and athleticism makes it possible. Rebounding, making a bigger difference on D...kind of like what he's done at the end of the Nets and the Bucks games so far this year.
Funny quote by Doc.  He blocked shots, he rebounded... for grand totals of 1 block and 2 rebounds.

Haha, that is funny.  I can see why Doc would say that though.  Jeff had a huge block on a Magic big man who had an opportunity for a very easy lay up in crunch time in the 4th quarter.  He may not have grabbed many rebounds, but he was certainly very "active" on the glass, tipping a lot of balls.  This is my objective feeling watching that game and I consider myself generally a JG detractor.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: action781 on November 26, 2012, 10:04:47 AM
Quote
He's a poor man's Danny Granger. I'd pay 8 for that if he was starting.

He's a Danny Granger without a jump shot.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: action781 on November 26, 2012, 10:21:28 AM
As for "horrible", I wouldn't say that.  I'm sure he would beat any of us 21-0 in a game of 1 on 1.

I would say that he is not showing to be worth his contract yet.  I would say he is a pretty poor shooter for a SF.  He is a pretty good rebounder for a SF.  He is a pretty mediocre defender for a SF.  Overall he's looking like a pretty mediocre player.  I'm just not sure exactly what his strengths are yet.  I know what "strengths" people will tell me he has, but I still have yet to see them.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mgent on November 26, 2012, 10:26:17 AM
How long before Jeff Green decides to switch to the NFL?

Same time as Big Baby?

Edit:  Then again, Baby said after he becomes an all star.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: manl_lui on November 26, 2012, 11:08:43 AM
As for "horrible", I wouldn't say that.  I'm sure he would beat any of us 21-0 in a game of 1 on 1.

I would say that he is not showing to be worth his contract yet.  I would say he is a pretty poor shooter for a SF.  He is a pretty good rebounder for a SF.  He is a pretty mediocre defender for a SF.  Overall he's looking like a pretty mediocre player.  I'm just not sure exactly what his strengths are yet.  I know what "strengths" people will tell me he has, but I still have yet to see them.

^this, but also, I think that Jeff's shooting is just fine, but is not a consistent scorer. He's not bad of a defender and rebounder, its just his scoring needs to be more consistent. He can't score 17 one night and then just 1 pt the next day.

Though I can say that his defense is really not as bad as people said it is. He played pretty good defense yesterday against the Magics.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: snively on November 26, 2012, 11:34:03 AM
I'd like to see Green pass the ball a little bit more.  He gets tunnel vision on some of those right-handed gallops from the 3-point line or when he posts up a guard - did have one nice pass to Sullinger, but forced up a few shots when a pass would have been better.

I'd also like to trade Bass and free up some more minutes at the 4 spot for him.  He's most dangerous offensively as a stretch/speed 4 and he's getting precious few minutes there. 
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 26, 2012, 12:14:35 PM
I dont think that overall Green is horrible, I do think that he is a horrible post up player though! Who was on him last night, Aflallo maybe? Green had the "mismatch" could hardly even budge him anywhere and resulted in throwing up a turn around ugly looking hook shot.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: manl_lui on November 26, 2012, 12:32:16 PM
I dont think that overall Green is horrible, I do think that he is a horrible post up player though! Who was on him last night, Aflallo maybe? Green had the "mismatch" could hardly even budge him anywhere and resulted in throwing up a turn around ugly looking hook shot.

I was gonna say the same thing about his post game, but it does seem he was being soft in the post. I also did see that post on Affalo and I went "why can't you post up a guard?!?!"

I think he is capable of pushing his opponents back, but he might be worried for offensive fouls or whatnot. I know he is more capable than that...don't know what's really holding him back
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 26, 2012, 12:45:16 PM
I dont think that overall Green is horrible, I do think that he is a horrible post up player though! Who was on him last night, Aflallo maybe? Green had the "mismatch" could hardly even budge him anywhere and resulted in throwing up a turn around ugly looking hook shot.

I was gonna say the same thing about his post game, but it does seem he was being soft in the post. I also did see that post on Affalo and I went "why can't you post up a guard?!?!"

I think he is capable of pushing his opponents back, but he might be worried for offensive fouls or whatnot. I know he is more capable than that...don't know what's really holding him back

Yeah me either. When he has been aggressive and "mean" as KG puts it he had played great basketball. But then he gets in stages where he seems timid and out of his element. Posting up Afflalo was one of those moments for me. I also think defenders know his game pretty well. He makes a great quick first step to the basket, but when he gets in the paint ready to explode to the rim, there is someone there waiting for him and he hasnt risen up over them yet, just decided to throw up an underhand scoop or something. Maybe he is afraid of health damage and contact right now.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 26, 2012, 12:48:28 PM
From Forsberg (Doc on the Magic game):

Quote
"I thought Jeff played great, he just didn’t score," Rivers said. "He blocked shots, rebounded -- just played a good floor game for us. He just missed some makeable shots, but you can’t do anything about that."

I missed all but the first half of the game. Only saw him miss a couple shots and benched. Can anyone say that this is the case?

I'm hoping he continues working on this if this is indeed the case.

Bass has done exactly this. Despite having some bad games scoring, he's rebounded, brought energy on D and energy in general.

Surprisingly, Barbosa has done so too. And even the Jet. Neither were known for their defense but have played great D.

Jeff Green could definitely do more than scoring. His size and athleticism makes it possible. Rebounding, making a bigger difference on D...kind of like what he's done at the end of the Nets and the Bucks games so far this year.
Funny quote by Doc.  He blocked shots, he rebounded... for grand totals of 1 block and 2 rebounds.

Haha, that is funny.  I can see why Doc would say that though.  Jeff had a huge block on a Magic big man who had an opportunity for a very easy lay up in crunch time in the 4th quarter.  He may not have grabbed many rebounds, but he was certainly very "active" on the glass, tipping a lot of balls.  This is my objective feeling watching that game and I consider myself generally a JG detractor.

I cant see Docs point of view AT ALL on this one. Like someone stated above he "rebounded and blocked shots"...? He had a great block on defense and that granted him the opportunity to play major second half minutes? As soon as Green came into the game at the four, we completely lost the lead and then some. Green stayed on the floor with Bass and Sully and the game was on the border of getting out of our reach. The time on the clock kept ticking away, and away, and away...Green was still in and we were still playing poorly. I couldnt understand Doc's rotation last night at the end of 3rd, half of the fourth at all.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2012, 12:50:36 PM
I cant see Docs point of view AT ALL on this one.

My guess is that he was just looking for something encouraging to say.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: 33_Larry Legend_33 on November 26, 2012, 01:31:32 PM
I live in Florida (NE of Tampa) and took my son to yesterday's game as an early birthday gift (he turns 13 in December).  Being there and seeing this game live, I can offer one conclusion:

Jeff green plays with a passive nature, his shots are not being taken with confidence or strength, and he looks like a man who has (pardon the expression) no heart on the floor.  I was utterly embarrassed watching him play.  Sitting next to a lot of die hard Celtics fans, those comments were consistent across the board.

KG nailed it - JG must play with an edge...  I don't think he can, and he is KILLING this team.  I felt sorry for him as I literally watch Afflalo push him around on the floor.  And seeing this live made me realize just how weak and passive he is.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Shad0wman on November 26, 2012, 05:43:10 PM
I live in Florida (NE of Tampa) and took my son to yesterday's game as an early birthday gift (he turns 13 in December).  Being there and seeing this game live, I can offer one conclusion:

Jeff green plays with a passive nature, his shots are not being taken with confidence or strength, and he looks like a man who has (pardon the expression) no heart on the floor.  I was utterly embarrassed watching him play.  Sitting next to a lot of die hard Celtics fans, those comments were consistent across the board.

KG nailed it - JG must play with an edge...  I don't think he can, and he is KILLING this team.  I felt sorry for him as I literally watch Afflalo push him around on the floor.  And seeing this live made me realize just how weak and passive he is.

TY! TP! THIS!

Its all I see when I watch him play. If anyone here can actually tell me they see anything other than this heartless, overpaid non player I would really like to hear it because, well because you can't tell me that. This is the most frustrating thing to me about it, I'm a baller and I would gladly play with 1000x more heart than this fool and I would do it for 10x less the pay. And out of all the people in the world, we get this dude. Its a shame, like poster said, no heart, passive, embarrassing. It's plain embarrassing to anyone who gives effort. I have slowly grown to completely loathe JG as a BB non player and I foam at the mouth when I even think about him. Until they release him or trade him, Jeff Green and his absurd salary will be a detriment to this team and I will continue to come here and bash him.

Jeff Green welcome to a world where your life in basketball is public and until you can play CONSISTENTLY and up to your pay grade you will be mercilessly hounded to do something to change this. Only you can do it man and well, I have no hope that you can or will. Please go to Italy or France or something. Give someone who actually wants to play and will give effort a chance. Its nearing Christmas Jeff, please do it. Do it.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 26, 2012, 06:25:48 PM
I realize this is a thread about Jeff Green being a horrible player, but in fairness, if this thread is going to get multiple pages of posts after a bad game, might it not get at least 1 post when he plays well? 

I went to the OKC game and thought Green was a significant contributor. He was really quite efficient with his shots and he was engaged on both ends.  He wasn't great, but he was certainly good on that night.  In 14 games he's had 3 (or so) impactful games and a bunch of sub-par games.  It isn't a good start to a season that folks hoped would be a break-out season for him. But if this is to be the on-going thread about JG's performance, it's only fair that he get some recognition when he plays well in addition to the criticism when he plays poorly. 

On the Doc comments, I do think Doc was overly positive, but I think a more accurate way of finding some good in Jeff's game last night would be that, despite going 0-9, it was actually a better night than some he's had.  He did make a few aggressive moves and did contribute with an important block.  He also took the shots that were available to him (with the exception of one unnecessary pass) -- shots he'll make on other nights. 0-9 is terrible, but there weren't too many of the 9 shots that I wouldn't want him take again if they present themselves.

I agree with the OP that he has not played well, but I doubt it's about effort or desire to do well. He seems to lack confidence and seems confused about what he should be doing at various times.  I won't give him all season to turn this around, but unlike the OP I do have some hope that he can.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mrpoundforpound on November 26, 2012, 06:29:46 PM
Jeff Green will be a beast by the end of the year. He has played fairly well so far though not up to his potential. I don't get why everyone is on his case all the time. He just had heart surgery.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 26, 2012, 06:33:28 PM
I realize this is a thread about Jeff Green being a horrible player, but in fairness, if this thread is going to get multiple pages of posts after a bad game, might it not get at least 1 post when he plays well? 

I went to the OKC game and thought Green was a significant contributor. He was really quite efficient with his shots and he was engaged on both ends.  He wasn't great, but he was certainly good on that night.  In 14 games he's had 3 (or so) impactful games and a bunch of sub-par games.  It isn't a good start to a season that folks hoped would be a break-out season for him. But if this is to be the on-going thread about JG's performance, it's only fair that he get some recognition when he plays well in addition to the criticism when he plays poorly. 

On the Doc comments, I do think Doc was overly positive, but I think a more accurate way of finding some good in Jeff's game last night would be that, despite going 0-9, it was actually a better night than some he's had.  He did make a few aggressive moves and did contribute with an important block.  He also took the shots that were available to him (with the exception of one unnecessary pass) -- shots he'll make on other nights. 0-9 is terrible, but there weren't too many of the 9 shots that I wouldn't want him take again if they present themselves.

I agree with the OP that he has not played well, but I doubt it's about effort or desire to do well. He seems to lack confidence and seems confused about what he should be doing at various times.  I won't give him all season to turn this around, but unlike the OP I do have some hope that he can.

TP

Love that celticsblog is getting to be more positive.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: twistedrico14 on November 26, 2012, 06:46:20 PM
I think Jeff Green is a very good basketball player that just missed an entire season after having open heart surgery.   That would make the idea of such a thread as this one a complete mockery.   
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on November 26, 2012, 06:50:05 PM
I think Jeff Green is a very good basketball player that just missed an entire season after having open heart surgery.   That would make the idea of such a thread as this one a complete mockery.
Bringing up the heart surgery is a mockery to me, since he is exactly the same player pre and post heart surgery.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2012, 07:12:29 PM
I think Jeff Green is a very good basketball player that just missed an entire season after having open heart surgery.   That would make the idea of such a thread as this one a complete mockery.
Bringing up the heart surgery is a mockery to me, since he is exactly the same player pre and post heart surgery.

That's mostly how I feel, and I think you're probably right.

At the same time, there's naturally going to be some rust, so I'll wait until after the all-star break to assess if we're seeing the "real" Jeff Green.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 26, 2012, 07:30:39 PM
I think Jeff Green is a very good basketball player that just missed an entire season after having open heart surgery.   That would make the idea of such a thread as this one a complete mockery.
Bringing up the heart surgery is a mockery to me, since he is exactly the same player pre and post heart surgery.

That's mostly how I feel, and I think you're probably right.

At the same time, there's naturally going to be some rust, so I'll wait until after the all-star break to assess if we're seeing the "real" Jeff Green.

I think this is how I feel too,  I'm ready to dump him now , but I would be more confident that is the correct choice by alstar break as well. 

That said...I honestly don't see no way Danny will keep him if he continues to play like this 1/2 though the season.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 26, 2012, 07:47:47 PM
honestly, he was 0-9 BUT some nights shots just aren't going to fall...at least he was aggressive and looked for his shot...i'll take him taking 9 shots a game, because eventually 3-4 of those will fall

I want him to remain aggressive like that ALL the time

my problem has been Green NOT taking shots...not taking them and missing..because History will say that he will snap out of his shooting funk and shots will start to fall.

its the same with Courtney Lee...the shots he's taking are shots I would want him to take. but they just arent falling right now
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 26, 2012, 08:24:00 PM
I think Jeff Green is a very good basketball player that just missed an entire season after having open heart surgery.   That would make the idea of such a thread as this one a complete mockery.
Bringing up the heart surgery is a mockery to me, since he is exactly the same player pre and post heart surgery.
Hes the same player right now but youre crazy if you think he wont get better.  All players get better, especially ones with alot of potential, and at every turn of Greens career he has battled setbacks that have temporarily stunted his growth in the nba.  He is playing as good as he was in OKC yet he still is only beginning to gel with his new team... When he told reporters the other day that he was still only 90 percent back to his old physical shape, did you think he was lying or purposely setting us all up for a huge disappointment?

I realize this is a thread about Jeff Green being a horrible player, but in fairness, if this thread is going to get multiple pages of posts after a bad game, might it not get at least 1 post when he plays well? 

I went to the OKC game and thought Green was a significant contributor. He was really quite efficient with his shots and he was engaged on both ends.  He wasn't great, but he was certainly good on that night.  In 14 games he's had 3 (or so) impactful games and a bunch of sub-par games.  It isn't a good start to a season that folks hoped would be a break-out season for him. But if this is to be the on-going thread about JG's performance, it's only fair that he get some recognition when he plays well in addition to the criticism when he plays poorly. 

On the Doc comments, I do think Doc was overly positive, but I think a more accurate way of finding some good in Jeff's game last night would be that, despite going 0-9, it was actually a better night than some he's had.  He did make a few aggressive moves and did contribute with an important block.  He also took the shots that were available to him (with the exception of one unnecessary pass) -- shots he'll make on other nights. 0-9 is terrible, but there weren't too many of the 9 shots that I wouldn't want him take again if they present themselves.

I agree with the OP that he has not played well, but I doubt it's about effort or desire to do well. He seems to lack confidence and seems confused about what he should be doing at various times.  I won't give him all season to turn this around, but unlike the OP I do have some hope that he can.

Just curious.. what section were you in?
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: MJohnnyboy on November 26, 2012, 08:25:28 PM
"What he went through [with heart surgery] and to come back, it's going to take him a while. It's hard to play in this league, and it's really hard to play when you've missed a year. He has to just be patient, himself, because he's a winner, he wants to do well, he wants to play well. It's going to take time, and not too many guys can miss a year and have success right off the get-go. But he will eventually."

Quote from Scotty Brooks. I think he knows more than anyone of us about Green.

Yesterday was frustrating but Green still played great against a team that's considered a contender the game before. Atleast he wasn't tentative like he usually is and showed his aggression towards the basket. That atleast showed he is trying to find his role on the team. I liked the moves that he made but he just couldn't finish them.

I'm an optimistic fan so I'm going to continue to wait because the offense is still flowing off the bench even with Green's struggles. I know just as any fans do that Green was most definitely overpaid. The Celtics gave him starters money when he's only going to play 20-25 minutes a night off the bench. What's going to hurt even more is that the Celtics have other scoring options besides Green off the bench fully healthy with Terry, Barbosa, Sully, Lee, and even Wilcox can all put points on the board.

He may have been overpaid at $9 million but I'd prefer he'd stay on the team over some veterans minimum pick-up.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mrpoundforpound on November 26, 2012, 09:02:52 PM
I think Jeff Green is a very good basketball player that just missed an entire season after having open heart surgery.   That would make the idea of such a thread as this one a complete mockery.
Bringing up the heart surgery is a mockery to me, since he is exactly the same player pre and post heart surgery.
Hes the same player right now but youre crazy if you think he wont get better.  All players get better, especially ones with alot of potential, and at every turn of Greens career he has battled setbacks that have temporarily stunted his growth in the nba.  He is playing as good as he was in OKC yet he still is only beginning to gel with his new team... When he told reporters the other day that he was still only 90 percent back to his old physical shape, did you think he was lying or purposely setting us all up for a huge disappointment?

I realize this is a thread about Jeff Green being a horrible player, but in fairness, if this thread is going to get multiple pages of posts after a bad game, might it not get at least 1 post when he plays well? 

I went to the OKC game and thought Green was a significant contributor. He was really quite efficient with his shots and he was engaged on both ends.  He wasn't great, but he was certainly good on that night.  In 14 games he's had 3 (or so) impactful games and a bunch of sub-par games.  It isn't a good start to a season that folks hoped would be a break-out season for him. But if this is to be the on-going thread about JG's performance, it's only fair that he get some recognition when he plays well in addition to the criticism when he plays poorly. 

On the Doc comments, I do think Doc was overly positive, but I think a more accurate way of finding some good in Jeff's game last night would be that, despite going 0-9, it was actually a better night than some he's had.  He did make a few aggressive moves and did contribute with an important block.  He also took the shots that were available to him (with the exception of one unnecessary pass) -- shots he'll make on other nights. 0-9 is terrible, but there weren't too many of the 9 shots that I wouldn't want him take again if they present themselves.

I agree with the OP that he has not played well, but I doubt it's about effort or desire to do well. He seems to lack confidence and seems confused about what he should be doing at various times.  I won't give him all season to turn this around, but unlike the OP I do have some hope that he can.

Just curious.. what section were you in?

EXACTLY. why cant anyone see jeff green has more potential than anyone on the Cs. Anyone who is hating is not a cetlic fan or only pays attention to stats. Jeff does so much more than doesn't show up in the box score and has more grit or heart than most players in the nba.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mrpoundforpound on November 26, 2012, 09:05:03 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2012, 09:16:47 PM
Anyone who is hating is not a cetlic fan or only pays attention to stats. Jeff does so much more than doesn't show up in the box score and has more grit or heart than most players in the nba.

1.  Comments like "Anyone who is hating is not a cetlic fan" are not only inaccurate, but they're specifically against our rules;

2.  Outside of Celtics fans, I don't think you'd fine many observers who would agree that Jeff Green plays with a lot of grit or a lot of heart, certainly not more than the average player.  The most common criticism of Green is that he's too passive, and that he doesn't play with a ton of hustle.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: cman88 on November 26, 2012, 09:28:30 PM
I don't really think Green played passive at all last night...

I liked the effort, just the results were poor...but I'll take him looking for his shot 9times
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: MJohnnyboy on November 26, 2012, 09:59:02 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Easily? A steal? Sorry Green has done hardly anything to prove that, and I put that in the nicest way possible. I'm optimistic about Green but he's only scored in double digits 5 times in 14 games. If that's the C's 3rd or 4th best player they are in trouble. And one game where he had 17 points doesn't necessarily make up for several straight games of single digit scoring. Let's wait for some consistency. Acie earl scored 40 points and had 18 rebounds once. Didn't do much for his career going forward.

I don't really think Green played passive at all last night...

I liked the effort, just the results were poor...but I'll take him looking for his shot 9times

My thoughts exactly. He looked like he was trying to build off his performance against OKC but was just off.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Shad0wman on November 27, 2012, 02:59:43 AM
I realize this is a thread about Jeff Green being a horrible player, but in fairness, if this thread is going to get multiple pages of posts after a bad game, might it not get at least 1 post when he plays well? 

I went to the OKC game and thought Green was a significant contributor. He was really quite efficient with his shots and he was engaged on both ends.  He wasn't great, but he was certainly good on that night.  In 14 games he's had 3 (or so) impactful games and a bunch of sub-par games.  It isn't a good start to a season that folks hoped would be a break-out season for him. But if this is to be the on-going thread about JG's performance, it's only fair that he get some recognition when he plays well in addition to the criticism when he plays poorly. 

On the Doc comments, I do think Doc was overly positive, but I think a more accurate way of finding some good in Jeff's game last night would be that, despite going 0-9, it was actually a better night than some he's had.  He did make a few aggressive moves and did contribute with an important block.  He also took the shots that were available to him (with the exception of one unnecessary pass) -- shots he'll make on other nights. 0-9 is terrible, but there weren't too many of the 9 shots that I wouldn't want him take again if they present themselves.

I agree with the OP that he has not played well, but I doubt it's about effort or desire to do well. He seems to lack confidence and seems confused about what he should be doing at various times.  I won't give him all season to turn this around, but unlike the OP I do have some hope that he can.

Absolutely, please make a thread when Jeff Green is a world beater. I know I bash him hard, and in the back of my mind I really hope he succeeds somehow, but the only thing I can go by is his effort and play and I don't see it in him at all. If making one great dunk and scoring 17 points makes a bballer a world beater and an all-star. ok then, I've walked into some parallel world where overpaid bench dudes have somehow become this teams savior. uh huh. Next good game he plays you dump all the praise you want on him, I'll be here the other 8 out of 10 games talking truth.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: mctyson on December 01, 2012, 07:36:06 AM
Just wanted the OP to comment after las
Next good game he plays you dump all the praise you want on him, I'll be here the other 8 out of 10 games talking truth.

Truth talking begin, plz.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: ronaldo943 on December 01, 2012, 07:46:42 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: RyNye on December 01, 2012, 08:40:48 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: crownsy on December 01, 2012, 09:01:16 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

saying random things doesn't make them true, see above for  worthwhile analysis by RyNye.

He's been playing much better recently, the problem is he is inconsistent. If he can start stringing together performances like last night, He'll start earning his keep.

We'll see if he can keep it going tonight vs the bucks.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 01, 2012, 09:25:27 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.   
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on December 01, 2012, 09:30:42 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: 2short on December 01, 2012, 09:38:29 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.
I think you could do the same sort of analysis with Terry so far this year.  He has been up and down as well (lee as well)
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fred Roberts on December 01, 2012, 10:11:47 AM
He needs to get much more nasty on the boards on a regular basis.

We know he can score, get steals and a block or two.

He must begin to rebound like Pierce.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 01, 2012, 10:16:04 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.

great post rynye. thanks. this really does show how inconsistent green has been this season, much like the celtics as a team i think.

i looked over the game logs for green and there is no real pattern that i could see either. a seemingly random mix of good games and bad games.

hopefully, this inconsistency is due to the surgery and missing a year and that as he gets more game time he will be more consistent and perhaps even improve his stats. i hope.

but i liked about his game recently is that more and more he seems to be aggressive with the ball on both offense and on defense. he has talent, i hope he can really use it.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 01, 2012, 10:26:50 AM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.
I think you could do the same sort of analysis with Terry so far this year.  He has been up and down as well (lee as well)

Terry has been consistent this year. Hes probably only had a couple of off shooting nights total. Their have been games where he didn't shoot much but when he does shoot he shoots well. I can't complain about terry at all.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: More Banners on December 01, 2012, 10:34:32 AM
He needs to get much more nasty on the boards on a regular basis.

We know he can score, get steals and a block or two.

He must begin to rebound like Pierce.

Speaking of, I notced against OKC that Jeff had some nice footwork when looking to score.  Wish he showed that more instead of going with the drive-right thing all the time. 

It's like he's used to playing PF and just going by bigger/slower players to the lane.  He's going to need to keep working on the footwork and pull-up to reach his potential as a SF.  Pierce is the perfect tutor, but it will take time.

I still like the guy.  Reminds me of a less-talented #35 when Bird was still around, trying to figure out where to fit in and not sure what "his" game was, except Green is struggling a bit more due to the position change.  It's really a different game at SF.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: celtsfan84 on December 01, 2012, 11:29:55 AM
He needs to get much more nasty on the boards on a regular basis.

We know he can score, get steals and a block or two.

He must begin to rebound like Pierce.

Speaking of, I notced against OKC that Jeff had some nice footwork when looking to score.  Wish he showed that more instead of going with the drive-right thing all the time. 

It's like he's used to playing PF and just going by bigger/slower players to the lane.  He's going to need to keep working on the footwork and pull-up to reach his potential as a SF.  Pierce is the perfect tutor, but it will take time.

I still like the guy.  Reminds me of a less-talented #35 when Bird was still around, trying to figure out where to fit in and not sure what "his" game was, except Green is struggling a bit more due to the position change.  It's really a different game at SF.

I hope you aren't implying that Jeff Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis.  Beyond his rookie season, Reggie Lewis was an impact player from the start.  I think you are remembering him incorrectly, unless there was a #35 before him that is slipping my mind.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: More Banners on December 01, 2012, 12:05:27 PM
He needs to get much more nasty on the boards on a regular basis.

We know he can score, get steals and a block or two.

He must begin to rebound like Pierce.

Speaking of, I notced against OKC that Jeff had some nice footwork when looking to score.  Wish he showed that more instead of going with the drive-right thing all the time. 

It's like he's used to playing PF and just going by bigger/slower players to the lane.  He's going to need to keep working on the footwork and pull-up to reach his potential as a SF.  Pierce is the perfect tutor, but it will take time.

I still like the guy.  Reminds me of a less-talented #35 when Bird was still around, trying to figure out where to fit in and not sure what "his" game was, except Green is struggling a bit more due to the position change.  It's really a different game at SF.

I hope you aren't implying that Jeff Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis.  Beyond his rookie season, Reggie Lewis was an impact player from the start.  I think you are remembering him incorrectly, unless there was a #35 before him that is slipping my mind.

Sorry for the unclear reference.  Green as a less-talented version of the inexperienced Lewis. 

Green has also has spent his early NBA years not learning his natural position.

Reggie had the advantage of playing his formative years at the right position, but was trying to fit around established stars for a couple of years, even while Bird was out. 

Green, while less talented, has always had to fit around stars, taking the ball out of his hands offensively, relegating him to the corner, and putting him at a disadvantage defensively. 

Now, he has to learn the tricks of the SF position while using a more diverse range of skills (the footwork, the pull-up, going left), but still without the ball in his hands.  Even on the bench, as we generally envision it, we have both Terry and Green who need the ball, and usually a starter out there with them.

And we want Green to be more aggressive...
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: moiso on December 01, 2012, 12:24:14 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on December 01, 2012, 12:35:27 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it. The alternative was no Jeff Green, and no replacement other than a minimum alternative, so there's really not a point to be made about being someone to rely on or not based on salary.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: kg is king on December 01, 2012, 12:39:18 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on December 01, 2012, 12:43:15 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.

His salary had no effect on our free-agent targets, he was only available to us because we had his Bird Rights, his money was not going to be used on anyone else. We can argue about a potential mid-level player next year, but that's about it (and even so, there's still a chance we that have option available as it is).

And sorry, but Jeff Green is very much a tradeable asset, and that he's making that much money helps us net premium talent if it ever becomes an option (of course other assets would need to be used).
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: Fan from VT on December 01, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.

And remember, they relaxed the amount that you can take back in a trade. But with Green's deal, we boxed ourselves into a defacto "hard cap" so we have to take back the same or less than we give out in a trade. Without green's contract, we could have made a trade package that brought back a more expensive player. So yes, the contract does limit our options.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on December 01, 2012, 12:58:16 PM
easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.

And remember, they relaxed the amount that you can take back in a trade. But with Green's deal, we boxed ourselves into a defacto "hard cap" so we have to take back the same or less than we give out in a trade. Without green's contract, we could have made a trade package that brought back a more expensive player. So yes, the contract does limit our options.

If you're building a roster for a championship run, the concern is not going to be about a mid-season trade.

Regardless, with or without the hard cap our trading assets and our trading targets are very slim. In just about any scenario we'd have to send quite a few assets away to net us a player who would improve this team, at least now we have more options to fill holes in our roster. Find me a player we could have with X package (with the assumption that there's no hard cap), and I'll reconsider. But I'm not seeing any that would make us stronger.
Title: Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
Post by: thirstyboots18 on December 01, 2012, 06:14:47 PM
I have let these negative threads influence me, but you are wrong and so was I.  Everyone expects Jeff Green to bounce back as if from a pulled muscle.  The man had heart surgery.  Like with KG knee a few years ago (which was said to take a full year), I don't think he will be back at full strenght for a while yet.  He is lucky to be playing at all, and most of us would still be winded just walking to the mailbox.  He is really coming along well.

The question isn't if he is talented.  He is.  The question is, is it "heart" or is it lack of stamina that is holding him back right now.  I choose to believe that it is lack of stamina, and that further recuperation and conditioning will take care of that.  He has shown signs of moving forward on the effort level, but I am not sure his body will allow full, all out effort just yet...maybe for short stints.  Jeff did not have a splinter removed.  Wilcox did not have a splinter removed.  They had heart surgery and will have to work through inevitable recuperation and conditioning before they are at full strength.  It doesn't happen overnight.

I hope, with conditioning, that effort  like last night will become the norm.