CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Stizz44 on November 15, 2012, 08:27:43 AM
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Internet rumors have been swirling about these 3 players coming to the Celtics. But which one of these guys best fits our team this season and moving forward for years to come?
I’d say Varejao right now for Banner # 18. But moving forward, idk.
Josh Smith has publicly advocated his love for Boston. And would be great for the future, but idk about Banner #18 with him.
Al Jefferson is pretty much the same boat as Smith.
I guess it’s gonna come down to which one of these guys take a pay cut for next season? Does 10million per do the job?
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Internet rumors have been swirling about these 3 players coming to the Celtics.
Trade ideas moreso than rumors, I'd say.
For this team, I'd rank them Varejao, Smith, Big Al.
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Varejao ... would put the Celtics nearly on par with LA and Miami in a series battle. If you COULD keep Bradley & Rondo & Pierce ,KG, Wilcox and Sully....then I would say trade for him.
Next close choice would be Josh Smith.....again same players need to be kept as above to work (worth the effort) . Better for future buiding.
Jefferson ... ok ...but not in the same league as IMO as Varejao/Smith... Might trade a couple good players. But , I might just rather have Green + Bass over Al Jefferson.
Rather have Milsap than Jefferson.
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For another big our main needs are:
1. Mobility - someone quick enough to defend P&R
2. Defense - ability defend the post when KG sits
3. Rebounding - self explanatory
4. Scoring - ability to score SOME points if needed
5. Potential - needs to be able to lead when KG retires
For me Smith is the top option. He's as athletic as they come, he's an elite inside/outside defender, he's an excellent rebounder, he can score when called upon, and he his potential is through the roof.
Second is Varejao - he is big, strong and tough but he's still mobile enough to defend quicker guys. He's an elite rebounder and defender, but scoring is inconsistent and his potential is limited - he's probably not going to ever be more than a role player.
Last is Jefferson. He's too slow to defend the P&R, he's a mediocre defender in general, and IMHO he's already reached his peak and will not improve further. His best skills are scoring and rebounding, but we need the other things more.
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I'd say cost is most important thing. We cannot trade Green without getting a sf in return. Contract wise I think that takes Smith out(?) it would be Bass + matching salaries for smith. Bradley is coming off double surgery so doesn't make sense to have him be part as his value is low. Per my usual I wouldn't even think of this trade unless Smith signed an extension.
Al, love his offense and rebounding but he is weak on defense and $$$.
I don't see Varejao being available but at the price he is probably best fit.
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Varajao by far. Not only does he provide the defensive and rebounding presence, along with the ability to be an elite defensive center, but his contract is much easier to match, and he has two years remaining at a very reasonable (if not bargain) price.
Of course, for all those reasons, I think it might take a kings ransom to pry him away.
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lets get them all
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Definitely Varejao but I think it would have been easier to trade for him last year when the Cavs were completely in rebuild mode. They are starting to form an identity now.
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Josh Smith. If you look at the Celts starting lineup, they don't currently have an athletic power forward that can rebound and take the ball to the net. Getting Smith would solve that and put the Celts on par with Miami.
Bass is a decent PF but undersized for his position.
I think between KG, Wilcox, Darko and Collins (if they ever play), the center position is/should be set for now.
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Sideshow would be the best fit.
I am torn between the other two.
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Definitely Varejao but I think it would have been easier to trade for him last year when the Cavs were completely in rebuild mode. They are starting to form an identity now.
IDK, I think the current CAVS roster is a first round playoff exit at best. They need to tank for at least 2 more seasons if they are following the OKC rebuild model. And this is why I think we can get Varejao cheap.
Send them:
Bass(professional vetern)
Joseph (young talent/rookie contract)
Melo (young talent/rookie contract)
Collins (expiring contract)
and a 1 rounder.
CAVS win with young talent, picks, and helping Celtics beat Lebron.
Celtics win with Banner #18.
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Definitely Varejao but I think it would have been easier to trade for him last year when the Cavs were completely in rebuild mode. They are starting to form an identity now.
IDK, I think the current CAVS roster is a first round playoff exit at best. They need to tank for at least 2 more seasons if they are following the OKC rebuild model. And this is why I think we can get Varejao cheap.
Send them:
Bass(professional vetern)
Joseph (young talent/rookie contract)
Melo (young talent/rookie contract)
Collins (expiring contract)
and a 1 rounder.
CAVS win with young talent, picks, and helping Celtics beat Lebron.
Celtics win with Banner #18.
They have their superstar already, and a couple other nice looking young players in Waiters and Thompson, Zeller looked good before he got hurt too, along with a lot of valuable cap space and some other decent assets.
Now is the point where they start adding veterans, and using their cap space to build a winning team around their young core, not giving away valuable big men on bargain contracts for 50 cents on the dollar.
I think people don't realize that Varajao has been arguably one of the top 5 big men in the league so far this season. You aren't getting that for a bunch of mediocre pieces.
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Definitely Varejao but I think it would have been easier to trade for him last year when the Cavs were completely in rebuild mode. They are starting to form an identity now.
IDK, I think the current CAVS roster is a first round playoff exit at best. They need to tank for at least 2 more seasons if they are following the OKC rebuild model. And this is why I think we can get Varejao cheap.
Send them:
Bass(professional vetern)
Joseph (young talent/rookie contract)
Melo (young talent/rookie contract)
Collins (expiring contract)
and a 1 rounder.
CAVS win with young talent, picks, and helping Celtics beat Lebron.
Celtics win with Banner #18.
They have their superstar already, and a couple other nice looking young players in Waiters and Thompson, Zeller looked good before he got hurt too, along with a lot of valuable cap space and some other decent assets.
Now is the point where they start adding veterans, and using their cap space to build a winning team around their young core, not giving away valuable big men on bargain contracts for 50 cents on the dollar.
I think people don't realize that Varajao has been arguably one of the top 5 big men in the league so far this season. You aren't getting that for a bunch of mediocre pieces.
I still believe it will take them falling in love with Green since SF is the only spot they do not have set moving forward.
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I pick "none of the above."
What would it take to pry away Gortat from the Suns.
He's my 1st choice. What can we get the Suns to get him? What do they want? Do we need to get a 3rd team involved.
They are always looking to save $$$$. What about Sullinger/Melo/Bradley and whatever filler is needed (maybe an expiring from a 3rd team?)
I know we are trading our future, but Gortat and KG and Wilcox and Bass and Green sound like more than enough of a frontcourt. 18 and even 19 would be in play with that group. The future, not so much, but it seems like we are about the here and now.
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I pick "none of the above."
What would it take to pry away Gortat from the Suns.
He's my 1st choice. What can we get the Suns to get him? What do they want? Do we need to get a 3rd team involved.
They are always looking to save $$$$. What about Sullinger/Melo/Bradley and whatever filler is needed (maybe an expiring from a 3rd team?)
I know we are trading our future, but Gortat and KG and Wilcox and Bass and Green sound like more than enough of a frontcourt. 18 and even 19 would be in play with that group. The future, not so much, but it seems like we are about the here and now.
Gortat would be good too. I'm happy you didn't say Beasley, who everyone seems to want. He continues to be horrible.
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Definitely Varejao but I think it would have been easier to trade for him last year when the Cavs were completely in rebuild mode. They are starting to form an identity now.
IDK, I think the current CAVS roster is a first round playoff exit at best. They need to tank for at least 2 more seasons if they are following the OKC rebuild model. And this is why I think we can get Varejao cheap.
Send them:
Bass(professional vetern)
Joseph (young talent/rookie contract)
Melo (young talent/rookie contract)
Collins (expiring contract)
and a 1 rounder.
CAVS win with young talent, picks, and helping Celtics beat Lebron.
Celtics win with Banner #18.
They have their superstar already, and a couple other nice looking young players in Waiters and Thompson, Zeller looked good before he got hurt too, along with a lot of valuable cap space and some other decent assets.
Now is the point where they start adding veterans, and using their cap space to build a winning team around their young core, not giving away valuable big men on bargain contracts for 50 cents on the dollar.
I think people don't realize that Varajao has been arguably one of the top 5 big men in the league so far this season. You aren't getting that for a bunch of mediocre pieces.
I still believe it will take them falling in love with Green since SF is the only spot they do not have set moving forward.
Yeah, that would have the be the start of any trade with the Cavs. But I think we would have to give up a lot in addition to Green to get Varajao. It wouldn't make a ton of sense for them to weaken one of their biggest strengths (particularly without a great option to replace him), in order to upgrade a weakness.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I just don't think Varajao is available at all, unless they are getting a star in return.
However, where their need for a SF could play a role, is if we want to make a trade with another team (maybe Atlanta or Utah), who prefer cap space over Jeff Green, Cleveland could absorb his salary, and send a pick or two to help make a three-way deal happen.
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just so I have it straight in my head, we can NOT trade Jeff Green till the offseason at the earliest, right?
what's the rule that falls under?
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just so I have it straight in my head, we can NOT trade Jeff Green till the offseason at the earliest, right?
what's the rule that falls under?
This from RealGM trade checker:
"Jeff Green from Boston Celtics
Green recently signed a contract and, as a result, he cannot be traded until Jan 15, 2013."
Not sure how accurate this is, but that's what it says when I tried a trade for Gortat.
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just so I have it straight in my head, we can NOT trade Jeff Green till the offseason at the earliest, right?
what's the rule that falls under?
This from RealGM trade checker:
"Jeff Green from Boston Celtics
Green recently signed a contract and, as a result, he cannot be traded until Jan 15, 2013."
Not sure how accurate this is.
this is correct.
does Varejao make THAT much more than Green ? I thought their prices wew close ?
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just so I have it straight in my head, we can NOT trade Jeff Green till the offseason at the earliest, right?
what's the rule that falls under?
Another poster was indicating Green can't be traded this season, as well. I'm not sure if that's accurate, as I don't know what rule it falls under.
I agree with csfansince60s that we can't trade him until January 15. That's the earliest a player in Green's circumstances can be traded (i.e., a player with Bird rights who re-signs with his team that is over the cap, and receives more than a 20% raise on his prior salary).
EDIT: Salary cap guru Larry Coon agrees:
Badax33:
Larry
Question about the Celtics and Jeff Green. Can Green be traded this season? I’ve had people say that because he didn’t play last year he can’t be traded until he plays the entire 2012/2013 season – Keith Van Horn Rule. However, I’ve read your FAQs (several times) and see ONLY that he can’t be included in a S&T (which is the Keith Van Horn Rule). But once he signed a new FA deal, he becomes tradable (like an other FA or traded player) in either Dec or Jan (FAQ 96 or 98). Am I correct? Thanks
Larry Coon:
The Keith Van Horn rule relates to sign-and-trade transactions only. Green can be traded on Jan 15.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary-cap-chat-with-larry-coon-101912/
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I love Big Al but I don't want him back. Any big we're going to trade for needs to be an elite defender. Smith would be too expensive for my tastes. Varejao shameless flopping aside would be the best choice. He gives us hustle, rebounding, athleticism. That'll be interesting Nene will be the only Brazilian in the league not on our team.
I see Green being near impossible to trade this season because I don't know who'll want to pick up that contract so soon. And if someone does we'll need to find a quality SF to backup Pierce.
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Face it, we aren't trading green. Its absurd that his name would come up over one of our many 2's. Our best bet is to go after a big whos team could use a new starting SG
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For everyone wondering, any player that signed a free agent contract prior to the beginning of the 2012 season can be traded beginning on December 15, 2012. This includes Green.
I love that everyone is on-board with Varejao. He'd be the best fit for this team, and would allow for KG to bounce between PF and C depending on game situations. Varejao rebounds, can score around the rim, and plays with a mean streak that we really haven't had since Perk left. Imagine how his mean streak will play against Bron Bron, who abandoned him in Cleveland. I'm thinking Varejao would love a chance to smash into Bron near the basket during the playoffs. He's also the cheapest option of the three.
Smith and Big Al are a toss up. They're both pricey, would probably cost more players to bring in, and they both have flaws in their game which would limit their use here - Smith settles for far too many long-2s, Big Al is sometimes very passive and seems a bit too nice on the court (def doesn't have Varejao's mean streak).
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Big Al would be worth it. SO what Varejao gives 2 or 3 more rebounds, al would give us like 9 more points inside and help us spread the floor much more.
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Face it, we aren't trading green. Its absurd that his name would come up over one of our many 2's. Our best bet is to go after a big whos team could use a new starting SG
Not really.
He plays behind Pierce.
He is young enough.
His contract is big enough not to need a lot of filler.
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For everyone wondering, any player that signed a free agent contract prior to the beginning of the 2012 season can be traded beginning on December 15, 2012. This includes Green.
That's not true. For certain players -- Bird or Early Bird free agents who re-sign with a team over the cap, and who receive a 20%+ raise -- they can't be traded until January 15.
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Face it, we aren't trading green. Its absurd that his name would come up over one of our many 2's. Our best bet is to go after a big whos team could use a new starting SG
Not really.
He plays behind Pierce.
He is young enough.
His contract is big enough not to need a lot of filler.
Its big enough, yes, but for the receiving end team whos losing their best big they're not gonna be happy with green as the only piece. Not many teams believe in his potential.
And pierce is pierce but every star needs a back up especially after 14 seasons
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Face it, we aren't trading green. Its absurd that his name would come up over one of our many 2's. Our best bet is to go after a big whos team could use a new starting SG
Not really.
He plays behind Pierce.
He is young enough.
His contract is big enough not to need a lot of filler.
Its big enough, yes, but for the receiving end team whos losing their best big they're not gonna be happy with green as the only piece. Not many teams believe in his potential.
And pierce is pierce but every star needs a back up especially after 14 seasons
It depends on the team and the player.
A team may fall in love with Green. A team may have to move a big.
And chances are more pieces will have to be included.
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Smith
Varejao
Big Al
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I like AJefferson, but he can't guard a chair.
I think I like AVerejao more than JSmith. At least you know AVerajao is going to be a menace every night. JSmith tends to take plays off....not to mention he can shoot you out of a run(ala Antoine Walker)
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Trade Idea for Josh Smith:
Celtics:
Josh Smith
Hawks:
Wilson Chandler
Evan Fournier
Quincy Miller
Fab Melo
Celtics 1st pick
Nuggets 1st pick
Nuggets:
Brandon Bass
Courtney Lee
Mike Scott
Celtics 2nd round pick
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Trade Idea for Josh Smith:
Celtics:
Josh Smith
Hawks:
Wilson Chandler
Evan Fournier
Quincy Miller
Fab Melo
Celtics 1st pick
Nuggets 1st pick
Nuggets:
Brandon Bass
Courtney Lee
Mike Scott
Celtics 2nd round pick
You really hate the Nuggets, huh?
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Smith is the best fit for the team's needs - his natural position is PF, which is our weakest starting spot (once Avery comes back). He's one of the league's most dangerous transition threats at the 4 (a great fit with Rondo). And he's young with a clean bill of health.
Varejao's a close second (I dock him for injury concerns).
Big Al would be nice, but he's not a great fit for our needs.
Any of these trade scenarios depend on Jeff Green busting out and souping up his trade value. Atlanta and Cleveland in particular are starved for talent at the 3-spot. If Green starts putting together stretches of games like last night in Utah, those teams might be partial to building a deal around him and smaller assets (Lee, Sully, Melo, future picks).
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Face it, we aren't trading green. Its absurd that his name would come up over one of our many 2's. Our best bet is to go after a big whos team could use a new starting SG
Not really.
He plays behind Pierce.
He is young enough.
His contract is big enough not to need a lot of filler.
So our backup sf is....
kris joseph?
if we had a healthy green and bradley last year i can't see how we would not have another banner
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Face it, we aren't trading green. Its absurd that his name would come up over one of our many 2's. Our best bet is to go after a big whos team could use a new starting SG
Not really.
He plays behind Pierce.
He is young enough.
His contract is big enough not to need a lot of filler.
So our backup sf is....
kris joseph?
if we had a healthy green and bradley last year i can't see how we would not have another banner
Because neither have size. Once Bosh came back, the Celtics no longer played even with the Heat.
And you can find another backup SF who can play 10- 15 minutes a game in the playoffs. (unless of course the team wants to give Lee 5 - 10 minutes there because of the guard depth)
If lack of size shows to be the same issue as last year and the rookies don't improve fast enough, this may have to happen.