CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Greenbean on November 15, 2012, 01:46:53 AM
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And when you are done tell me why the Celtics lack of bigs beyond KG will prevent them form being a contender.
We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
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The reality is that the new NBA consists of 2 power forwards down low and no true center. the big, bruising post centers are all on non-contenders.
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1. Z-Bo
2. Dwight Howard
3. KG
4. Pekovic
5. Horford
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1. Z-Bo
2. Dwight Howard
3. KG
4. Pekovic
5. Horford
Minnesota and Atlanta are good teams but they wont contend.
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1. Z-Bo
2. Dwight Howard
3. KG
4. Pekovic
5. Horford
griz and timberwolves arent true title contenders and z-bo is 6'9. kg isnt the "post player" this topic is referring to.
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First identify what the meaning of contender is. or better yet, identify these contenders for us.
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Probs not the forum im gonna go for, but go for greg monroe when that guy becomes RFA or FA......... Gonna be that good!!
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1. Z-Bo
2. Dwight Howard
3. KG
4. Pekovic
5. Horford
Minnesota and Atlanta are good teams but they wont contend.
That would make it a trick question, you could probably cut the number of contenders down to close to 5.
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And when you are done tell me why the Celtics lack of bigs beyond KG will prevent them form being a contender.
We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
We need defensive rebounding from our bigs but we also need defense. The post game on offense isn't the issue.
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Im not sure if they are good teams but these are the 5 post players in my list.
Andrew Bynum
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
DeMarcus Cousins
Tim Duncan
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This is a bit of a loaded question, as everyone will have a different interpretation as to what contstitutes a 'good team', especially so early in the season.
Dirk Nowitzki and both Gasol brothers are all pretty good low post bangers that haven't been mentioned yet.
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First identify what the meaning of contender is. or better yet, identify these contenders for us.
good and reasonable request.
and after doing that, perhaps the author of the thread might wish to change the title to "name 5 post players on contending teams." since the thread has moved in that direction that might help things a bit.
oh, i am a bit surprised that perk hasnt been mentioned yet on this board.
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Andrew Bynum - 76ers
Brook Lopez - Nets
Pau Gasol - Lakers
Tim Duncan - Spurs
Marc Gasol - Grizzlies
I didn't list Howard because he has about two post moves and that's about it. All he can really do is catch and dunk - if you're going to consider Howard a Post Player may as well call Chandler a post player too.
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We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
Exactly, which we don't have aside from Garnett, that's the problem.
Also just paint protection in general from any of our big men other than Garnett would be huge.
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I didn't list Howard because he has about two post moves and that's about it. All he can really do is catch and dunk - if you're going to consider Howard a Post Player may as well call Chandler a post player too.
Dwight Howard is a rather effective post player. Its not a pretty or refined game but he's a good post player with a couple different moves to get hook shots with his right hand. He has also been using his left hand more the past two years.
Dwight's at his best as the roller in the pick and roll but he's no slouch in the post.
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We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
Exactly, which we don't have aside from Garnett, that's the problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woWqSmichOo
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We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
Exactly, which we don't have aside from Garnett, that's the problem.
*edit* Darko Youtube *edit*
Darko was a bad defender and bad rebounder when he got really out of shape. I'll have to see it this year before I believe he can provide that aspect.
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We would like the Celtics to have it so we have a inside advantage over a team like Miami.
Trying to match up with them small really hurts most teams chances to beat them (including Boston)
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We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
Exactly, which we don't have aside from Garnett, that's the problem.
*edit* Darko Youtube *edit*
Darko was a bad defender and bad rebounder when he got really out of shape. I'll have to see it this year before I believe he can provide that aspect.
Posted that half jokingly.
I think (or am deceiving myself into thinking) that his wrist is the thing that's holding him back right now. No more mental baggage it seems. His pre-season has gotten me real excited.
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Bosh
Perk
Chewbaka
Noah
Boozer
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Howard
Gasol
Duncan
Gasol
Randolph
KG
Bynum (if healthy)
Hibbert (if they regain the form once Granger get's back)
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From last year we have:
1. Pau Gasol (41-25)
2. Randolph (41-25)
3. Horford (40-26)
4. West (42-24)
5. Boozer (50-16)
6. Bynum
7. Hibbert
8. Bosh (46-20)
9. Duncan (50-16)
10. Marc Gasol
I'd say that's pretty much the order, and includes 3 guys who are great post players but weren't even the best one on their team. FYI, those are 7 out of the top 8 teams, all finished better than the Celts.
OKC is very clearly the exception, not the rule as you suggest.
And if you think this year's different (like Chicago is no longer a "good" team) you can replace Boozer with B. Lopez and Dwight, both on contenders now. Also, Griffin is becoming dangerously close to a passable post player.
Edit: Both Lopez and Howard belong in the top 4 of that list if their teams pan out.
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We would like the Celtics to have it so we have a inside advantage over a team like Miami.
Trying to match up with them small really hurts most teams chances to beat them (including Boston)
Yes, three teams have beaten Miami so far this season (all away games): New York, Memphis and the Clippers. So it's starting to look like being bigger is better.
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Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Tim Duncan
Roy Hibbert
David West
Brooke Lopez
Amare Stoudemire
Carlos Boozer
Kevin Love
Zach Randolph
Marc Gasol
:)
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It's a myth that big men are no longer as important. Having quality bigs isn't about just having them matchup, that's how guards work for the most part. Big men control the paint, therefore the game. When guards and wings are beat the bigs are the guys who step up and contest shots. When shots are missed its the bigs that clean up. Qaulity bigs make defending and scoring in the paint easier and we all know that's where the best shots are. With the exception of Miami all of the contenders have quality frontlines.
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Lakers - D12, Pau Gasol
Spurs - Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter
OKC - Serge Ibaka
Memphis - ZBo, Marc Gasol
Denver - Kenneth Faried, JaVale McGee
Dallas - Elton Brand
Portland - LaMarcus Aldridge
Boston - KG
Miami - Bosh
NJ - Brook Lopez
Chicago - Carlos Boozer, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson
NY - Tyson Chandler
Atlanta - Al Horford
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There are plenty of post players who are great. There are very few teams with two players that Bass and KG will have trouble handling.
The best post players are Bynum, Cousins, Lopez, Jefferson, Howard, Gasol, Millsap, DeAndre Jordan (He now has a beautiful quick turn around jump hook), Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Greg Monroe, Roy Hibbert (work in progress), Al Horford, Andrew Bogut, Spencer Hawes, David Lee, Zach Randolph, Marcin Gortat, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Kevin Love, Pekovic, Bargnani and Josh Smith (when he feels like it)
That's probably everyone. I don't count guys like Boozer, Stoudemire, Chandler, Ibaka, Durant or Griffin until they display ability to play in the post effectively.
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5 post players on good teams:
Pau Gasol
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol
Zach Randolph
Kevin Love
Al Horford (but to be fair, Hawks might fall off the face of the earth)
Dwyane Wade (That one is a clever exception, Kobe Bryant is also a good post player)
LeBron James (This is not a clever exception, its a fact)
Chris Bosh
Tim Duncan
I guess I'll stop there
Carlos Boozer
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We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
Exactly, which we don't have aside from Garnett, that's the problem.
Also just paint protection in general from any of our big men other than Garnett would be huge.
My main point (not very well executed early this morning) is that there are very few offensive (true centers) that the Celtics cannot match up with because of size. On top of that we have two 7 footers on the bench if we ever do have to match up with the Lakers.
The early hiccups on this team have been due to perimeter and pick and roll defense primarily, not because we do not have a true center to pair with Garnett.
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We need defensive rebounding from our bigs and that is it.
Exactly, which we don't have aside from Garnett, that's the problem.
Also just paint protection in general from any of our big men other than Garnett would be huge.
My main point (not very well executed early this morning) is that there are very few offensive (true centers) that the Celtics cannot match up with because of size. On top of that we have two 7 footers on the bench if we ever do have to match up with the Lakers.
The early hiccups on this team have been due to perimeter and pick and roll defense primarily, not because we do not have a true center to pair with Garnett.
At this point, the focus should not be 28 teams.
It should be the Heat. What can give the Celtics an advantage against the Heat?
As of right now, it looks like talented size (not necessarily star size) could be the biggest difference maker the Celtics could add.
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Sorry y'all, that was adumb way to put the question...
What players can the Celtics not match up with on teams we could meet in the playoffs?
Basically I want to hear why some fans are attributing early inconsistencies to lack of true bigs.
The best argument I have heard is that having another paint protecting big would put us in a better position to win.
I do agree with that...we need a better last line of defense (like Tyson Chandler, Ibaka type player).
Fair point.
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5 Good players on 5 good teams
1. Tim Duncan
2. ZBo
3. Al Jefferson
4. Dwight Howard
5. Al Horford (I actually got stuck in 5...so I picked randomly)
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Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Tim Duncan
Roy Hibbert
David West
Brooke Lopez
Amare Stoudemire
Carlos Boozer
Kevin Love
Zach Randolph
Marc Gasol
:)
+Lamarcus aldridge
+Blake Griffin
+Andrew Bynum
+Andrew Bogut (when healthy and team is 4-4 right now)