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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: BleedGreen1989 on November 14, 2012, 09:31:31 PM

Title: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on November 14, 2012, 09:31:31 PM
I usually pride myself in not being an irrational homer but who has a better bench? I understand this is one game and I'm not just basing it off this game but am I crazy? This is how the bench should play
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Atzar on November 14, 2012, 09:39:03 PM
The bench looks good tonight.  Barbosa was a heck of a pickup... he has been our best bench player so far this year.

I think they'll start to jell as the year goes on, and we'll get this kind of performance pretty often.  Lee, especially, is a lot better than he has been playing.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on November 14, 2012, 09:45:00 PM
The bench looks good tonight.  Barbosa was a heck of a pickup... he has been our best bench player so far this year.

I think they'll start to jell as the year goes on, and we'll get this kind of performance pretty often.  Lee, especially, is a lot better than he has been playing.

Ya I'm not gonna lie, barbosa was an afterthought in my mind. End of the bench depth but he's been terrific.

I also feel bad for lee, I've been a fan since his Orlando days and the guy is just a solid basketball player but he's still searching for his role
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Atzar on November 14, 2012, 10:04:16 PM
The bench looks good tonight.  Barbosa was a heck of a pickup... he has been our best bench player so far this year.

I think they'll start to jell as the year goes on, and we'll get this kind of performance pretty often.  Lee, especially, is a lot better than he has been playing.

Ya I'm not gonna lie, barbosa was an afterthought in my mind. End of the bench depth but he's been terrific.

I also feel bad for lee, I've been a fan since his Orlando days and the guy is just a solid basketball player but he's still searching for his role

Same here about Barbosa.  I figured that he'd get some spot minutes early and then would ride the bench when Bradley comes back.  So far, it looks like he has a role on this team - we don't have many players who will attack the basket like he does.

Lee is a good on-ball defender, but it looks like he gets caught wandering off the ball sometimes.  I don't really have a problem with him on offense, though.  The numbers aren't there, but he's taking good shots.  They'll start to fall. 

Looks like Jeff Green is starting to hit his stride, too.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Kiorrik on November 14, 2012, 10:06:29 PM
We WILL have the best bench in the league.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: jdz101 on November 14, 2012, 10:07:29 PM
Lot of production tonight...
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 14, 2012, 10:12:16 PM
this was a Hugggggggggggggggggggggggge building block game.

A win with Rondo sitting on the bench.

Wilcox and Lee played well. 


GREEN 's SLAM on Jefferson is HIGHLIGHT CITY and so was KG no look pass .... WOW!!!!
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: cman88 on November 14, 2012, 10:24:10 PM
I think our bench guys are finally starting to get in a rhythm and get comfortable with the system, and its a huge boost...and if KG/Pierce/Rondo can get appropriate rest it should do wonders for them being aggressive in the 4th quarter

even with Terry in the starting lineup, we have guys who can explode for double digits any single night.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Mr October on November 14, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
The Celtics bench is good, but they still lack quality big men off the bench. For example, I'd take tonight's opponent's bench bigs over Sully and Wilcox any day.

The C's bench strength is on the wings. Still this is the best C's bench in a long time.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 14, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
The bench looks good tonight.  Barbosa was a heck of a pickup... he has been our best bench player so far this year.

I think they'll start to jell as the year goes on, and we'll get this kind of performance pretty often.  Lee, especially, is a lot better than he has been playing.

Ya I'm not gonna lie, barbosa was an afterthought in my mind. End of the bench depth but he's been terrific.

I also feel bad for lee, I've been a fan since his Orlando days and the guy is just a solid basketball player but he's still searching for his role

Same here about Barbosa.  I figured that he'd get some spot minutes early and then would ride the bench when Bradley comes back.  So far, it looks like he has a role on this team - we don't have many players who will attack the basket like he does.

Lee is a good on-ball defender, but it looks like he gets caught wandering off the ball sometimes.  I don't really have a problem with him on offense, though.  The numbers aren't there, but he's taking good shots.  They'll start to fall. 

Looks like Jeff Green is starting to hit his stride, too.

??????  We have way more players this year who can attack the rack than we did last year. We have pierce, rondo, barbosa, green and even KG attacked it tonight. Bass has before also. Bradley can also. KG did good when he posted up. he has not been good the last two games on the jumpers. This team is progressing though. Wilcox, Barbosa and Green played great. Guys are finding their roles. We just need to play better defense.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: jdz101 on November 14, 2012, 10:36:13 PM
Wait until they get bradley back in the swing of it and move the jet to the bench.....yikes.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: esel1000 on November 14, 2012, 10:39:51 PM
 getting the W with kg and pierce playing 30 or so mins was big. This win was very Spurs like, and that leads to success
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: CelticSooner on November 14, 2012, 10:48:31 PM
It's nice to have a bench that can extend leads instead of lose them for once. Clippers probably have the best bench in the league but the C's have a chance to be right up there.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on November 14, 2012, 10:49:59 PM
The Celtics bench is good, but they still lack quality big men off the bench. For example, I'd take tonight's opponent's bench bigs over Sully and Wilcox any day.

The C's bench strength is on the wings. Still this is the best C's bench in a long time.

I'm pretty sure anybody would trade their back up bigs for Utahs back up bigs lol I can't think of a team that has better bigs than Favors and Kanter coming off the bench.

I think Wilcox is a fine back up big. I have no problem with our big depth. Of course another 6'9"+ guy wouldn't hurt
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 14, 2012, 10:53:27 PM
I haven't been watching the games that much, how has Terry been doing?
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: European NBA fan on November 14, 2012, 11:05:13 PM
The bench looks good tonight.  Barbosa was a heck of a pickup... he has been our best bench player so far this year.

I think they'll start to jell as the year goes on, and we'll get this kind of performance pretty often.  Lee, especially, is a lot better than he has been playing.

Ya I'm not gonna lie, barbosa was an afterthought in my mind. End of the bench depth but he's been terrific.

I also feel bad for lee, I've been a fan since his Orlando days and the guy is just a solid basketball player but he's still searching for his role

Same here about Barbosa.  I figured that he'd get some spot minutes early and then would ride the bench when Bradley comes back.  So far, it looks like he has a role on this team - we don't have many players who will attack the basket like he does.

Lee is a good on-ball defender, but it looks like he gets caught wandering off the ball sometimes.  I don't really have a problem with him on offense, though.  The numbers aren't there, but he's taking good shots.  They'll start to fall. 

Looks like Jeff Green is starting to hit his stride, too.

??????  We have way more players this year who can attack the rack than we did last year. We have pierce, rondo, barbosa, green and even KG attacked it tonight. Bass has before also. Bradley can also. KG did good when he posted up. he has not been good the last two games on the jumpers. This team is progressing though. Wilcox, Barbosa and Green played great. Guys are finding their roles. We just need to play better defense.

You are right. But Atzar has a point: It's great to have a back up pg who can attack the rim, like Barbosa does. And he is more relentless than any other on this team.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: jdz101 on November 14, 2012, 11:19:53 PM
I haven't been watching the games that much, how has Terry been doing?

Didnt get many chances tonight but he's been finishing what he's been given at a reasonable clip so far.

He is good for around 10-12 points a game.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 15, 2012, 08:53:58 AM
I wouldn't say Barbosa has been our best bench player...

Terry was more consistent when he was coming off the bench, and so was Bass when he was.  Wilcox has started to be pretty consistent too.

Barbosa has been great but it's been on and off - lights out one night, no impact the next. 

Still LOVING what I'm seeing from him so far though!! If he gets more consistent with his production we are going to be a seriously beastly team.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2012, 08:59:43 AM
I haven't been watching the games that much, how has Terry been doing?

Didnt get many chances tonight but he's been finishing what he's been given at a reasonable clip so far.
Yeah Doc went big with Green/Pierce at the wings along with two true bigs and Barbosa for much of the game.

It was good for a lot of easy buckets on Foye/Haywood via the matchup of Pierce/Green and eventually they swapped Millsap onto Green defensively.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: scaryjerry on November 15, 2012, 09:02:59 AM
I don't think its that clear cut to be honest...plenty of good benches this season
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 15, 2012, 09:05:18 AM
I don't care what anybody says ... Barbosa just went off on the Jazz last night.  He was a wildman , he kept the Jazz reeling/off balance , and backing up with his contineous ball motion and slashing to the bucket.

Barbosa , Green and Wilcox and Lee work REALLY GOOD together.

Barbosa didn't give the Jazz time to settle in on defense .  ROndo could LEARN from watching Barbosa , this energy ball movemnet simular to Bradley is really what the Celtics need.

I love DOC giving Barbosa free rein as Point Guard ...just mkae stuff happen ..and he does !!   
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: wdleehi on November 15, 2012, 09:09:30 AM
I am a little nervous that the Celtic's bench is a little to heavy on the "all-around" talent and lack the necessary "specialty" talent.



I keep thinking about the '08 bench.  It didn't have the good all-around talent.  It had players that would fill specific roles perfectly.

Posey - defense and outside shooting at the 3/4
House - downtown threat
Powe - rebounding energy (specifically offensive)
PJ Brown - defensive/rebound big man
Scali - 12th man excellent.
TA - defensive pest



Remember the talk about how much better the Laker bench was going into the finals to watch the Celtics role players off the bench kill them by doing their roles.



Yes, talented. 


Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2012, 09:09:56 AM
I don't think its that clear cut to be honest...plenty of good benches this season
I think that Boston's bench has some of the best talent/potential on it. Now its a matter of getting that performance out of it.

A lot of the good benches early are often based on unsustainable shooting in the small sample.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2012, 09:15:52 AM
I am a little nervous that the Celtic's bench is a little to heavy on the "all-around" talent and lack the necessary "specialty" talent.



I keep thinking about the '08 bench.  It didn't have the good all-around talent.  It had players that would fill specific roles perfectly.

Posey - defense and outside shooting at the 3/4
House - downtown threat
Powe - rebounding energy (specifically offensive)
PJ Brown - defensive/rebound big man
Scali - 12th man excellent.
TA - defensive pest



Remember the talk about how much better the Laker bench was going into the finals to watch the Celtics role players off the bench kill them by doing their roles.



Yes, talented.
Bradley - Defensive Pest
Barbosa - Offensive spark (not a pure shooter like house but he can shoot too)
Green - All around SF or small ball PF (Posey role without defensive focus really)
Wilcox - Offensive Big man, but not a rebounder/defender
Terry - Combo guard who can create off the dribble
Lee - solid defensive SG who can hit jumpers

I know one of Lee/Terry/Bradley will start of course, hopefully Bradley when he's healthy.

Biggest issue is that there is no PJ Brown type, or even a Perkins to play C with length when KG sits. Unless Darko suddenly becomes rotation worthy (not holding my breath)
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: wdleehi on November 15, 2012, 09:19:55 AM
I am a little nervous that the Celtic's bench is a little to heavy on the "all-around" talent and lack the necessary "specialty" talent.



I keep thinking about the '08 bench.  It didn't have the good all-around talent.  It had players that would fill specific roles perfectly.

Posey - defense and outside shooting at the 3/4
House - downtown threat
Powe - rebounding energy (specifically offensive)
PJ Brown - defensive/rebound big man
Scali - 12th man excellent.
TA - defensive pest



Remember the talk about how much better the Laker bench was going into the finals to watch the Celtics role players off the bench kill them by doing their roles.



Yes, talented.
Bradley - Defensive Pest
Barbosa - Offensive spark (not a pure shooter like house but he can shoot too)
Green - All around SF or small ball PF (Posey role without defensive focus really)
Wilcox - Offensive Big man, but not a rebounder/defender
Terry - Combo guard who can create off the dribble
Lee - solid defensive SG who can hit jumpers

I know one of Lee/Terry/Bradley will start of course, hopefully Bradley when he's healthy.

Biggest issue is that there is no PJ Brown type, or even a Perkins to play C with length when KG sits. Unless Darko suddenly becomes rotation worthy (not holding my breath)


I am worried mostly about three pieces.

The outside shooter.

The Low Post threat. 

The big defensive garbage man




I have no issue with the all-around talent of Lee, Green and Terry.  It is great to have that off the bench.  I am just worried about the specific jobs that can help this team win.  (the 10 to 15 minute players)
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
The Celtics big man team is horrible.  KG is the only above average player in his role on the entire team.  Bass is well below average as starting PF's, Sullinger is well below average as a backup PF (at this point, he will get better), Wilcox is probably about average as a backup center (though he will get hurt any day now), Darko is below average as a 5th big man (and one who has only played in 1 game), and the C's don't have a 6th big man.

Barbosa, Terry, and Green are great at the 1/2/3 and would start on a lot of teams, but you can't just ignore the 4/5 positions which just aren't very good.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: wdleehi on November 15, 2012, 09:27:26 AM
The Celtics big man team is horrible.  KG is the only above average player in his role on the entire team.  Bass is well below average as starting PF's, Sullinger is well below average as a backup PF (at this point, he will get better), Wilcox is probably about average as a backup center (though he will get hurt any day now), Darko is below average as a 5th big man (and one who has only played in 1 game), and the C's don't have a 6th big man.

Barbosa, Terry, and Green are great at the 1/2/3 and would start on a lot of teams, but you can't just ignore the 4/5 positions which just aren't very good.


That's the issue when trying to build big men bench through FA and late draft picks.  Good to decent big men cost to much and team try to hang onto them.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2012, 09:35:23 AM
I think Lee/Terry/Barbosa are all solid options to space the floor from the guard position.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: wdleehi on November 15, 2012, 09:36:54 AM
I think Lee/Terry/Barbosa are all solid options to space the floor from the guard position.


Looking at their numbers, you are probably right.


It then goes back to the big men.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2012, 09:38:07 AM
I think Lee/Terry/Barbosa are all solid options to space the floor from the guard position.


Looking at their numbers, you are probably right.


It then goes back to the big men.
And Bradley, I'd love to assume he continues his high level of play when he gets back but I can't. We need him to be our game changing perimeter defensively.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: relja on November 15, 2012, 09:57:18 AM
The only bench that is even close to ours is the Clips' and for only 1 reason: Jamal Crawford.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2012, 10:02:19 AM
The Celtics big man team is horrible.  KG is the only above average player in his role on the entire team.  Bass is well below average as starting PF's, Sullinger is well below average as a backup PF (at this point, he will get better), Wilcox is probably about average as a backup center (though he will get hurt any day now), Darko is below average as a 5th big man (and one who has only played in 1 game), and the C's don't have a 6th big man.

Barbosa, Terry, and Green are great at the 1/2/3 and would start on a lot of teams, but you can't just ignore the 4/5 positions which just aren't very good.


That's the issue when trying to build big men bench through FA and late draft picks.  Good to decent big men cost to much and team try to hang onto them.
Oh I know and it is why I don't think the Celtics are a real contender without a trade to bring in another legit big man to pair with KG (like a Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Anderson Varejao, etc.).  The team just doesn't have the horses down low, and it will be the teams downfall.  Even a lesser overall talented team like Philly or Indy, could easily beat Boston because of their talent down low. 
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 15, 2012, 11:43:01 AM
The Celtics big man team is horrible.  KG is the only above average player in his role on the entire team.  Bass is well below average as starting PF's, Sullinger is well below average as a backup PF (at this point, he will get better), Wilcox is probably about average as a backup center (though he will get hurt any day now), Darko is below average as a 5th big man (and one who has only played in 1 game), and the C's don't have a 6th big man.

Barbosa, Terry, and Green are great at the 1/2/3 and would start on a lot of teams, but you can't just ignore the 4/5 positions which just aren't very good.


That's the issue when trying to build big men bench through FA and late draft picks.  Good to decent big men cost to much and team try to hang onto them.
Oh I know and it is why I don't think the Celtics are a real contender without a trade to bring in another legit big man to pair with KG (like a Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Anderson Varejao, etc.).  The team just doesn't have the horses down low, and it will be the teams downfall.  Even a lesser overall talented team like Philly or Indy, could easily beat Boston because of their talent down low.
One thing though that most people on here dont undertsand is how much more of a defensive monster KG is in the post season.  He doesnt worry much about conserving energy or hard body contact, where as during the season you can tell that he completely avoids contact and uses barely any energy on some plays.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2012, 12:39:43 PM
The Celtics big man team is horrible.  KG is the only above average player in his role on the entire team.  Bass is well below average as starting PF's, Sullinger is well below average as a backup PF (at this point, he will get better), Wilcox is probably about average as a backup center (though he will get hurt any day now), Darko is below average as a 5th big man (and one who has only played in 1 game), and the C's don't have a 6th big man.

Barbosa, Terry, and Green are great at the 1/2/3 and would start on a lot of teams, but you can't just ignore the 4/5 positions which just aren't very good.


That's the issue when trying to build big men bench through FA and late draft picks.  Good to decent big men cost to much and team try to hang onto them.
Oh I know and it is why I don't think the Celtics are a real contender without a trade to bring in another legit big man to pair with KG (like a Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Anderson Varejao, etc.).  The team just doesn't have the horses down low, and it will be the teams downfall.  Even a lesser overall talented team like Philly or Indy, could easily beat Boston because of their talent down low.
One thing though that most people on here dont undertsand is how much more of a defensive monster KG is in the post season.  He doesnt worry much about conserving energy or hard body contact, where as during the season you can tell that he completely avoids contact and uses barely any energy on some plays.
I get that, but it won't matter if Bass is next to him and the walking wounded of Wilcox, Darko, and Collins are backing him up.

Last year we were toast when Bosh came back for Miami.  Just a total difference maker in that series and totally changed the outcome.  If Chicago hadn't gone out against philly, good chance they beat us, and that is without Rose, because we had no answer for Noah, Boozer, and co. down low. 

With all the free agent moves Boston made, they didn't address the real problem on the team at all.  In my mind it was a terrible off season as not only is the team not any closer to a title, it has no cap space for 3 years to get a real difference maker to pair with Rondo.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Yogi on November 15, 2012, 12:48:13 PM
Bass is below average starter? 
This has to be a joke.
Sullinger and Wilcox are not enough quality for people? 
Who would rather have Antwan Jamison and Jordan Hill?  Collison and Thabeet?  Rashard Lewis and Udonis Haslem?  Gibson and Mohammed?  Blatche and Evans?  Wallace and Camby?  Turiaf and Hollins? please...
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: manl_lui on November 15, 2012, 01:32:44 PM
Bass is below average starter? 
This has to be a joke.
Sullinger and Wilcox are not enough quality for people? 
Who would rather have Antwan Jamison and Jordan Hill?  Collison and Thabeet?  Rashard Lewis and Udonis Haslem?  Gibson and Mohammed?  Blatche and Evans?  Wallace and Camby?  Turiaf and Hollins? please...

this

Wilcox is an energy guy and hustles. I mean compare him to the list you gave, Wilcox will outrun all of them

and Bass is not a below average starter. He's a big dude and can post. I mean yes he can fall in love with his jumper sometimes, but he can also post up in mismatches...

We can still improve, but I'm still satisfied with these "below average" players
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 15, 2012, 01:42:46 PM
I haven't been watching the games that much, how has Terry been doing?

Didnt get many chances tonight but he's been finishing what he's been given at a reasonable clip so far.
Yeah Doc went big with Green/Pierce at the wings along with two true bigs and Barbosa for much of the game.

It was good for a lot of easy buckets on Foye/Haywood via the matchup of Pierce/Green and eventually they swapped Millsap onto Green defensively.

I know we have a deep bench and a lot of guys we'd like to get minutes for, but Jeff Green should be playing 30 a game—not only to justify his contract, but because I think he needs that many minutes in order to have an impact, and will have an impact if given that many minutes. Plus, I like having him and Pierce on the floor together at times—seems to create some matchup problems for the opponent.

Great seeing my boys Barbosa and C-Dub playing so well. More of that, please!
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2012, 01:43:25 PM
Bass is below average starter? 
This has to be a joke.
Sullinger and Wilcox are not enough quality for people? 
Who would rather have Antwan Jamison and Jordan Hill?  Collison and Thabeet?  Rashard Lewis and Udonis Haslem?  Gibson and Mohammed?  Blatche and Evans?  Wallace and Camby?  Turiaf and Hollins? please...
Yes Bass is one of the worst starting PF's in basketball.  I went through this in a different thread a couple of days ago and Booker is the only starting PF that is clearly worse than Bass and that has no real shot of being better than him any time soon (bass is better right now than guys like Thomas Robinson, but probably won't be for long).

Bass is a very limited player on the whole.  He is a terrible rebounder for the position, isn't a great ball handler, isn't athletic, has a low BBIQ, isn't a very good team defender and is limited as a man defender, etc.  He is a very good mid-range shooter and that is about it.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 15, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
Bass is below average starter? 
This has to be a joke.
Sullinger and Wilcox are not enough quality for people? 
Who would rather have Antwan Jamison and Jordan Hill?  Collison and Thabeet?  Rashard Lewis and Udonis Haslem?  Gibson and Mohammed?  Blatche and Evans?  Wallace and Camby?  Turiaf and Hollins? please...

this

Wilcox is an energy guy and hustles. I mean compare him to the list you gave, Wilcox will outrun all of them

and Bass is not a below average starter. He's a big dude and can post. I mean yes he can fall in love with his jumper sometimes, but he can also post up in mismatches...

We can still improve, but I'm still satisfied with these "below average" players

Yeah, me too. Favors has lots of potential, but Boston's in "win now" mode, so I'm not sure it would be good if we were relying on him to make big contributions this season. Such is also the case, but even more pronounced, with Kanter.

Bass's rebounding has improved this season, and Wilcox is providing great energy, not to mention a reasonable amount of points and rebounds for the minutes he's getting. And both of them are more athletic and mobile than Kanter.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Professor of Rondology on November 15, 2012, 02:51:34 PM
Bass is below average starter? 
This has to be a joke.
Sullinger and Wilcox are not enough quality for people? 
Who would rather have Antwan Jamison and Jordan Hill?  Collison and Thabeet?  Rashard Lewis and Udonis Haslem?  Gibson and Mohammed?  Blatche and Evans?  Wallace and Camby?  Turiaf and Hollins? please...
Yes Bass is one of the worst starting PF's in basketball.  I went through this in a different thread a couple of days ago and Booker is the only starting PF that is clearly worse than Bass and that has no real shot of being better than him any time soon (bass is better right now than guys like Thomas Robinson, but probably won't be for long).

Bass is a very limited player on the whole.  He is a terrible rebounder for the position, isn't a great ball handler, isn't athletic, has a low BBIQ, isn't a very good team defender and is limited as a man defender, etc.  He is a very good mid-range shooter and that is about it.

I have to disagree with your assessment of Bass.  He isn't a great rebounder but I definitely wouldn't say he's terrible.  Below average maybe, but not terrible.  His team D is solid, or else we would not have brought him back.  Remember- he started at PF for the best defensive team in the league for the latter half of last year.

I'm not ecstatic with the big man situation- the Celtics could certainly use a second defensive-minded center to give us some backbone when KG's on the bench- but all we're missing is a backup center, not an all star. What we need is for the guys we signed SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT ROLE(Darko and Collins) to show Doc something in practice. If they earn some PT in these meaningless early-season games, not only will it reduce KG's burn, they might be ready in the playoffs if/when we call their names for short stints.

This is just one man's opinion, but if you're waiting for the Celtics to make a significant move that will get them an impact player, you'll be waiting awhile.  We went all in with THIS roster, and we have a [dang] good chance at winning it all if everything goes right (and every contender needs everything to go right to win it all).
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2012, 03:46:48 PM
This is just one man's opinion, but if you're waiting for the Celtics to make a significant move that will get them an impact player, you'll be waiting awhile.  We went all in with THIS roster, and we have a [dang] good chance at winning it all if everything goes right (and every contender needs everything to go right to win it all).
See this is where I totally disagree with you.  For Boston to win multiple teams need to have injuries to star players because the C's best will not be good enough against a number of other team's best.  Boston will not beat Miami unless it has an injury to at least one of the big 3 and frankly if Lebron is one of the healthy ones they still might beat us.  Same goes for the Lakers and Thunder.  Hell even Brooklyn, New York, Philadelphia, Indiana, and Chicago aren't going to be easy series for Boston to win. 

This team just isn't good enough to win a title as it is currently constructed without significant injuries to other teams.  Sad but true reality.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: snively on November 15, 2012, 04:27:37 PM
The Celtics big man team is horrible.  KG is the only above average player in his role on the entire team.  Bass is well below average as starting PF's, Sullinger is well below average as a backup PF (at this point, he will get better), Wilcox is probably about average as a backup center (though he will get hurt any day now), Darko is below average as a 5th big man (and one who has only played in 1 game), and the C's don't have a 6th big man.

Barbosa, Terry, and Green are great at the 1/2/3 and would start on a lot of teams, but you can't just ignore the 4/5 positions which just aren't very good.


That's the issue when trying to build big men bench through FA and late draft picks.  Good to decent big men cost to much and team try to hang onto them.
Oh I know and it is why I don't think the Celtics are a real contender without a trade to bring in another legit big man to pair with KG (like a Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Anderson Varejao, etc.).  The team just doesn't have the horses down low, and it will be the teams downfall.  Even a lesser overall talented team like Philly or Indy, could easily beat Boston because of their talent down low.
One thing though that most people on here dont undertsand is how much more of a defensive monster KG is in the post season.  He doesnt worry much about conserving energy or hard body contact, where as during the season you can tell that he completely avoids contact and uses barely any energy on some plays.
I get that, but it won't matter if Bass is next to him and the walking wounded of Wilcox, Darko, and Collins are backing him up.

Last year we were toast when Bosh came back for Miami.  Just a total difference maker in that series and totally changed the outcome.  If Chicago hadn't gone out against philly, good chance they beat us, and that is without Rose, because we had no answer for Noah, Boozer, and co. down low. 

With all the free agent moves Boston made, they didn't address the real problem on the team at all.  In my mind it was a terrible off season as not only is the team not any closer to a title, it has no cap space for 3 years to get a real difference maker to pair with Rondo.

I too am disappointed that the C's didn't really address their big man situation (we're already on pace to set another new record low in ORB% + the many defensive issues whenever KG rests), but that doesn't mean they had a terrible offseason.

While old weaknesses are as bad as ever, we have new strengths.  Last year if Rondo and Bradley were out and Ray was putting up a stinker like JET, do you think Dooling and Mickael Pietrus could have done anything close to what Barbosa and Green did last night?

I believe that we need to add another high quality big to break into the elite tier with Miami, OKC and maybe LAL (if they get their act together), but being arguably the 4th best team in the league is nothing to sniff at.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: BballTim on November 15, 2012, 04:44:47 PM
This is just one man's opinion, but if you're waiting for the Celtics to make a significant move that will get them an impact player, you'll be waiting awhile.  We went all in with THIS roster, and we have a [dang] good chance at winning it all if everything goes right (and every contender needs everything to go right to win it all).
See this is where I totally disagree with you.  For Boston to win multiple teams need to have injuries to star players because the C's best will not be good enough against a number of other team's best.  Boston will not beat Miami unless it has an injury to at least one of the big 3 and frankly if Lebron is one of the healthy ones they still might beat us.  Same goes for the Lakers and Thunder.  Hell even Brooklyn, New York, Philadelphia, Indiana, and Chicago aren't going to be easy series for Boston to win. 

This team just isn't good enough to win a title as it is currently constructed without significant injuries to other teams.  Sad but true reality.

  There's a good chance we'll be significantly improved at sg and every backup spot compared to last year. We can easily win a title against healthy teams provided we're healthy. People have been throwing dirt on the team since 2009 and it's still not taking.
Title: Re: We SHOULD have the best bench in the league
Post by: Professor of Rondology on November 15, 2012, 07:51:22 PM
This is just one man's opinion, but if you're waiting for the Celtics to make a significant move that will get them an impact player, you'll be waiting awhile.  We went all in with THIS roster, and we have a [dang] good chance at winning it all if everything goes right (and every contender needs everything to go right to win it all).
See this is where I totally disagree with you.  For Boston to win multiple teams need to have injuries to star players because the C's best will not be good enough against a number of other team's best.  Boston will not beat Miami unless it has an injury to at least one of the big 3 and frankly if Lebron is one of the healthy ones they still might beat us.  Same goes for the Lakers and Thunder.  Hell even Brooklyn, New York, Philadelphia, Indiana, and Chicago aren't going to be easy series for Boston to win. 

This team just isn't good enough to win a title as it is currently constructed without significant injuries to other teams.  Sad but true reality.

  There's a good chance we'll be significantly improved at sg and every backup spot compared to last year. We can easily win a title against healthy teams provided we're healthy. People have been throwing dirt on the team since 2009 and it's still not taking.
We were this close to beating Miami last year. 

Miami added Chris Bosh, Ray Allen, and Rashard Lewis to their ECF roster.

The Celtics added Jeff Green, Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, Leandro Barbosa, Jared Sullinger, Chris Wilcox, and Avery Bradley.  Of course, we lost a key contributor in Ray but I don't think he was the reason we almost won that series. And finally, the Captain and 08 Finals MVP was hobbled and played well below his normal level. 

Factor in all of that and I just can't see how the 2012 Celtics are not an elite team.

What about this do people not see?