CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Smokeeye123 on November 14, 2012, 12:40:12 AM
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Just last year, the Celtics tried unloading him for Paul. But after last season was over, most everyone agreed Rondo was at least the #2 PG. ESPN seems to think Paul still holds the top spot.
So what do you all think, Is Rondo #1 or CP3?
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rondo is the best. CP3 is a flopping loser who couldnt do half the passes that rondo makes.
oh and lets stop with the "pure point guard" insanity. Rondo is the best point guard, period.
rondo in the bulls game...1 rebound & 5 steals away from a quadruple-double and making NBA history...and they say Rondo not the best point guard in the league
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rondo is the best. CP3 is a flopping loser who couldnt do half the passes that rondo makes.
oh and lets stop with the "pure point guard" insanity. Rondo is the best point guard, period.
This
Rondo is an improved scorer and an improved his passing (somehow)
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I love Rondo to death and love how much he has grown in the past year and the role he is taking.
2 points on why i still think CP3 is just above rondo on the list. If he needs to do it i think Paul has a greater ability to just take over when needed than rondo does at this point in time. And this is nitpicking at its finest, but Paul just turns the ball over less than Rondo does.
No doubt in my mind though that if this continues Rondo is on his way to another all star appearence, only ones that are gonna stand in his way D will and Jrue Holiday
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IMHO from what i've seen these past 2 seasons, Rondo is the better player. He has shown that he can carry the squad and is a better defender.
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I was thinking about this today, personally as much as i hate him i still think cp3 is better. Here are stats from the first 7 games. so far this year chris paul is on par with rondos assist rate, and has a better assist to turnover ratio. and we know chris paul is a better shooter/scorer.
It can be misleading after 7 games,(Jason kidds ast/to is 14?)
mpg apg ap48 ast/to
Rondo 40.7 13 15.3 3.64
Paul 32.9 10.3 15 5.14
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Chris Paul is better. No question.
Rondo is probably not even #2. That said... through 7 games, Rondo is actually barely outperforming Chris Paul. Rondo has an Efficiency number of 24.9 and Chris Paul has 24.6. So technically, Rondo has had second best stats of any point guard (Kyle Lowry is #1)... through 7 games. Last year Rondo was 5th and the year before that he was 7th... Chris Paul is constantly #1.
It should be noted, though... through 7 games, Rondo is averaging 8 more minutes per night... hence the slightly better stats. Their EFF per 48 minutes has Chris Paul well ahead of Rondo with 35.82 and Rondo behind Lowry, Jeff Teague and Kyrie Irving with 29.56. It's only been 7 games, though... we'll see how the season plays out.
Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
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CP3 is still better, but Rondo is catching him.
Rondo plays so many minutes so you can't compare his per minute numbers- he plays all game and then has to come up clutch when he's exhausted.
We'll see how Rondo's shooting is after 40 games and then I'll make my mind up.
Chris Paul is a pick and roll master, he can shoot the 3, he can shoot the 15 footer, he's almost as good a passer as Rondo and he's probably a slightly better floor general. Rondo is the better athlete and has the potential to much better than Chris Paul if he gets a 3 point shot developed after he perfects his rapidly improving jumpshot.
CP3 but only slightly. If CP3 wasn't injured he'd be the best PG by quite a bit in my opinion.
Of course now there is Damian Lillard to think about...what a beast.
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rondo is the best. CP3 is a flopping loser who couldnt do half the passes that rondo makes.
oh and lets stop with the "pure point guard" insanity. Rondo is the best point guard, period.
rondo in the bulls game...1 rebound & 5 steals away from a quadruple-double and making NBA history...and they say Rondo not the best point guard in the league
not to nit pick, but 'only' 5 steals away from a quadruple double? lol
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CP3 is still better, but Rondo is catching him.
Rondo plays so many minutes so you can't compare his per minute numbers- he plays all game and then has to come up clutch when he's exhausted.
We'll see how Rondo's shooting is after 40 games and then I'll make my mind up.
Chris Paul is a pick and roll master, he can shoot the 3, he can shoot the 15 footer, he's almost as good a passer as Rondo and he's probably a slightly better floor general. Rondo is the better athlete and has the potential to much better than Chris Paul if he gets a 3 point shot developed after he perfects his rapidly improving jumpshot.
CP3 but only slightly. If CP3 wasn't injured he'd be the best PG by quite a bit in my opinion.
Of course now there is Damian Lillard to think about...what a beast.
Yeah... Rondo is catching up to Chris Paul with that silky smooth 50% free throw shooting. It's ok... the young pup is only 27 years old... a whole 8 months younger than chris Paul. It's only a matter of time until he becomes a sharp shooter... Only a matter of time. Rondo will surely deliver... let's just wait.
(http://i.imgur.com/GHvro.jpg)
Lol I'm just kidding around. But seriously though... with children like 20 year old Kyrie Irving already technically outperforming Rondo (per 48 minutes), I don't think we'll ever officially be able to declare Rondo as the best PG in the league. He's one of the best though. Definitely top 5 PG right now.
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CP3 is still better, but Rondo is catching him.
Rondo plays so many minutes so you can't compare his per minute numbers- he plays all game and then has to come up clutch when he's exhausted.
We'll see how Rondo's shooting is after 40 games and then I'll make my mind up.
Chris Paul is a pick and roll master, he can shoot the 3, he can shoot the 15 footer, he's almost as good a passer as Rondo and he's probably a slightly better floor general. Rondo is the better athlete and has the potential to much better than Chris Paul if he gets a 3 point shot developed after he perfects his rapidly improving jumpshot.
CP3 but only slightly. If CP3 wasn't injured he'd be the best PG by quite a bit in my opinion.
Of course now there is Damian Lillard to think about...what a beast.
Yeah... Rondo is catching up to Chris Paul with that silky smooth 50% free throw shooting. It's ok... the young pup is only 27 years old... a whole 8 months younger than chris Paul. It's only a matter of time until he becomes a sharp shooter... Only a matter of time. Rondo will surely deliver... let's just wait.
(http://i.imgur.com/GHvro.jpg)
Lol I'm just kidding around. But seriously though... with children like 20 year old Kyrie Irving already technically outperforming Rondo (per 48 minutes), I don't think we'll ever officially be able to declare Rondo as the best PG in the league. He's one of the best though. Definitely top 5 PG right now.
Yeah his free throw numbers bring him crashing back to reality behind Paul even more, his jumper has made a turn for the better reasonably fast these past 2 seasons though.
I don't think that production numbers necessarily add up to the complete truth. Kyrie is great, but he's not better than Rondo (yet).
To me there are only four or 5 PGs who can take over a playoff game and put the other team at their mercy.
Rose
Paul
Rondo
Westbrook
Deron
I think Irving and Lillard will join this group soon.
Out of those above, only Paul, Rondo, Deron and Irving are true 'generals' of the floor, guys who can control their own team and control the game by facilitating to their shooters and each of their team mates strengths and weaknesses.
Nash gets an honorable mention but he's an old dude now.
Rose, Paul and Rondo are the only ones who could get 40 points, 15 assists and 10 rebounds or 5 steals in the most important game of their lives- they are on another level to me.
At the end of the day, CP3 is the man to beat as PG.
I guess Rondo is default Eastern conference All Star starting PG this season with Rose out.
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Chris Paul is better. No question.
Rondo is probably not even #2. That said... through 7 games, Rondo is actually barely outperforming Chris Paul. Rondo has an Efficiency number of 24.9 and Chris Paul has 24.6. So technically, Rondo has had second best stats of any point guard (Kyle Lowry is #1)... through 7 games. Last year Rondo was 5th and the year before that he was 7th... Chris Paul is constantly #1.
It should be noted, though... through 7 games, Rondo is averaging 8 more minutes per night... hence the slightly better stats. Their EFF per 48 minutes has Chris Paul well ahead of Rondo with 35.82 and Rondo behind Lowry, Jeff Teague and Kyrie Irving with 29.56. It's only been 7 games, though... we'll see how the season plays out.
Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
I don't think that comparing efficiency stats is the only way to decide which point guard is playing better.
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Chris Paul is better. No question.
Rondo is probably not even #2. That said... through 7 games, Rondo is actually barely outperforming Chris Paul. Rondo has an Efficiency number of 24.9 and Chris Paul has 24.6. So technically, Rondo has had second best stats of any point guard (Kyle Lowry is #1)... through 7 games. Last year Rondo was 5th and the year before that he was 7th... Chris Paul is constantly #1.
It should be noted, though... through 7 games, Rondo is averaging 8 more minutes per night... hence the slightly better stats. Their EFF per 48 minutes has Chris Paul well ahead of Rondo with 35.82 and Rondo behind Lowry, Jeff Teague and Kyrie Irving with 29.56. It's only been 7 games, though... we'll see how the season plays out.
Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
I don't think that comparing efficiency stats is the only way to decide which point guard is playing better.
It's handy when it suits your argument :)
I wonder who the best point guards in the playoffs have been over the past 5 years efficiency wise?
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Rondo's an animal in the playoffs. Rondo's awesome! Go Rondo!
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I wouldn't swap Rajon for CP3 of Irving.
No way.
If they want to impress me, they can start by winning a playoff game with a dislocated elbow.
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Rondo improving his jumper is finally making a comparison more possible.
Rondo's overall game is fast approaching CP3 's and baring injuries , he should put out numbers better than CP3 consistantly from yr to yr.
ROndos best game stat wise I think will always be better than CP3 , as I belive Rondo is a superior physical player today.
Where CP3 has the advantage Night in and night out is more of a mental "ATTITUDE" about winning. Like Kobe , CP3 is 110% all in EVERY GAME is a must win , do or die situation. CP3 LEAVES it all on the floor , no matter what the circumstances. He may score only 5 points , but he did everything else a man could do to make up for not scoring , including carring the water bucket and towels to help his team.
Paul Pierce ccould play like this , never die I'll carry the team on back, so can KG, but they are getting too old to pull it off anymore. They know it and thats why they have given Rondo the Keys.
CP3 always seems to know HOW & When he has to take over , like Lebron has taken 8 years to figure it out. To me this is the sign of an ALstar, being able to take over a game at a critical point and pull the win out for your team.
Rondo is on the verge of having CP3 type leadership ..it shows up sporatically, he is just not shown this EVERY GAME yet or when the Celtics are down and out put the team on his back and assert his will on the game a t crunch time. D Rose could carry his team at a critical point.
One day he'll understand , its time for me to "GO" and get this win for my team.It comes natural to some players, Rondo like Lebron is figuring it out I think.
I think one thing I like about Avery Bradley , is he may have this CP3 gene of , its time for me to step up and make sure my team gets a win. Bradley seems to understand WHEN & WHAT is needed of him during a game.
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Just last year, the Celtics tried unloading him for Paul. But after last season was over, most everyone agreed Rondo was at least the #2 PG. ESPN seems to think Paul still holds the top spot.
So what do you all think, Is Rondo #1 or CP3?
At his peak, CP3 is better. He is a more complete offensive player and is still a much better perimeter player. Rondo is catching up in that area.
Rondo is a superior athlete and has the dynamic ability to be a better defender. But Chris Paul is a good defensive PG as well, and is arguably a better defender day in and day out. CP3 lead the league in steals last year.
CP3 deals out a ton of assists too, just a few shy of Rondo's league leading average last year.
But the biggest difference comes from how the two players protect the ball. Rondo is far more careless and averages more than one turnover more per game than CP3. Rondo is flashier, and this leads to some of that, but I think he is also less aware of how his turnovers impact the Celtics team play.
If Rondo could keep his turnovers under 3 a game, it would be a different story. I can't give him the nod over CP3 when he is giving the other team more chances to win every night.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
I agree with the above. I'd actually go as far as to say that CP3 might even be Top 3 (LeBron and Dwight ahead of him).
Rondo is on the next level, probably below a healthy Rose and alongside Westbrook, Parker, DeRon, and with Kyrie fast approaching.
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But the biggest difference comes from how the two players protect the ball. Rondo is far more careless and averages more than one turnover more per game than CP3. Rondo is flashier, and this leads to some of that, but I think he is also less aware of how his turnovers impact the Celtics team play.
If Rondo could keep his turnovers under 3 a game, it would be a different story. I can't give him the nod over CP3 when he is giving the other team more chances to win every night.
Rondo turns the ball over more than Paul during the season, Paul turns the ball over more than Rondo during the playoffs. I can live with that.
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Even if you think Chris Paul is still better, Rondo has certainly at least closed the gap by a decent amount. I think he looks more like the second best pg than the 5th best when lumping him in that top 5 pg category and probably pretty close to being a top 10 player.
I think we will learn even more after this year. Paul is in his second year with the clippers and shouldn't have many excuses to not make a run in the playoffs and Deron Williams should certainly have enough ammo to make a run as well.
If Rondo gets to the ECF again and these guys teams fizzle out I think it will build his case even further.
I think Rondo certainly gets overlooked for his ability to run the team and make players around him better. Guys like Bradley and Bass, among others, have certainly benefitted from playing with Rondo. I feel like people just give credit to those guys and forget that a big reason for their successful play has to do with Rondo
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But the biggest difference comes from how the two players protect the ball. Rondo is far more careless and averages more than one turnover more per game than CP3. Rondo is flashier, and this leads to some of that, but I think he is also less aware of how his turnovers impact the Celtics team play.
If Rondo could keep his turnovers under 3 a game, it would be a different story. I can't give him the nod over CP3 when he is giving the other team more chances to win every night.
Rondo turns the ball over more than Paul during the season, Paul turns the ball over more than Rondo during the playoffs. I can live with that.
CP3 also (per 36 minutes) tallies more points and assists in playoff games than Rondo. I can live with that, but I could certainly live with CP3 as a Celtic too. Probably live a little better.
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All I know is if it is the playoffs and I get to pick one PG in the league to run my team so that my team can win that game, I am taking Rajon Rondo 100 times out of 100.
When it comes to desire for winning and showing up when it matters the most, I want Rondo.
To me, that makes him the best.
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Stats are indeed important, but you can't really rely on them all the time. Chris Paul is good but he doesn't have that leadership mentality, when he goes the team goes. He did a great thing w/ the Clips but the all-so hyped and flashy Lob City got hammered by the "old, washed up" Spurs.
And how come when we play the Clippers/the Hornets before, Rondo almost always outplayed CP? Rondo is on a whole new level with his improved scoring and leader role and that not only makes him the best PG in the league, but a Top 5 player in general and a legitimate MVP candidate.
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Overall, I'd still say Paul is a bit better, but the gap is narrowing and Rondo's case is getting stronger.
Dollar-for-dollar it's no contest, which may be more important from a team perspective. But it's high praise for Rondo to be in the conversation; he's come a long way since 06.
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Stats are indeed important, but you can't really rely on them all the time. Chris Paul is good but he doesn't have that leadership mentality, when he goes the team goes. He did a great thing w/ the Clips but the all-so hyped and flashy Lob City got hammered by the "old, washed up" Spurs.
And how come when we play the Clippers/the Hornets before, Rondo almost always outplayed CP? Rondo is on a whole new level with his improved scoring and leader role and that not only makes him the best PG in the league, but a Top 5 player in general and a legitimate MVP candidate.
He doesn't have leadership qualities? Based on what?
I saw him leave a playoff team and they became a sure lotto team. I saw him join a young looking from the outside team and lead them to the 2nd round.
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Chris Paul still has the edge, if only because in the last two minutes of a game, there's literally nobody in the world you'd have rather have the ball in their hands than Chris Paul.
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Chris Paul is the most overrated player in the game and done the least to be put on the pedestal hes on...he hasn't made the 3rd round of the playoffs ever or been an mvp candidate since 2007...really his only great year and he continues to live off it...he quit on the hornets and the only people who think hes the best are fantasy nerds who only see him play a couple times a season...hes a fraud and its truly comical ive heard people saying hes better than Isaiah Thomas HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAJAJAHA
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Top 3 PG (and gap is closing)
Top 10 player
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
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I think I'd have to take Rondo at this point. Chris Paul is likely better over the course of the regular season on the weight of his superior jumpshooting and foul-shooting. But I agree with others when they say that Rondo at his best will have a better night than Paul at his best. I think it's significant that Rondo turns into a monster when the lights are brightest. If he sleepwalks against the Torontos of the league but flips out in the playoffs and in big games, then that's something I can live with - much rather have him do that than the other way around.
At this point, neither of them are good defensively. I've always thought Paul was overrated on that end of the floor simply because of his steals (which is a terrible stat to use to judge overall defensive ability). Rondo plays well for possessions at a time, but he's gambling more now than ever before. He has the higher ceiling at this end of the floor and over his career has been better defensively than CP, but it's clear that he's not invested on that end this year.
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the only people who think hes the best are fantasy nerds who only see him play a couple times a season...
Well, them and the people who voted him First Team All-NBA last year. But what do they know, really?
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Rondo improving his jumper is finally making a comparison more possible.
Rondo's overall game is fast approaching CP3 's and baring injuries , he should put out numbers better than CP3 consistantly from yr to yr.
ROndos best game stat wise I think will always be better than CP3 , as I belive Rondo is a superior physical player today.
Where CP3 has the advantage Night in and night out is more of a mental "ATTITUDE" about winning. Like Kobe , CP3 is 110% all in EVERY GAME is a must win , do or die situation. CP3 LEAVES it all on the floor , no matter what the circumstances. He may score only 5 points , but he did everything else a man could do to make up for not scoring , including carring the water bucket and towels to help his team.
Paul Pierce ccould play like this , never die I'll carry the team on back, so can KG, but they are getting too old to pull it off anymore. They know it and thats why they have given Rondo the Keys.
CP3 always seems to know HOW & When he has to take over , like Lebron has taken 8 years to figure it out. To me this is the sign of an ALstar, being able to take over a game at a critical point and pull the win out for your team.
Rondo is on the verge of having CP3 type leadership ..it shows up sporatically, he is just not shown this EVERY GAME yet or when the Celtics are down and out put the team on his back and assert his will on the game a t crunch time. D Rose could carry his team at a critical point.
One day he'll understand , its time for me to "GO" and get this win for my team.It comes natural to some players, Rondo like Lebron is figuring it out I think.
I think one thing I like about Avery Bradley , is he may have this CP3 gene of , its time for me to step up and make sure my team gets a win. Bradley seems to understand WHEN & WHAT is needed of him during a game.
Ah yes that Chris Paul is such a leader he quit on the hornets! And gee he really knows when to take over! Hence never getting out of the second round while rondo is the best playoff performer outside lebron James.....I love these fraudulant Chris Paul myths
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Part of CP value, is that he fits with anyone. Kind of like Paul Pierce at SF actually.
With Rondo you need a certain type of rotation behind him and at the wings. (e.g. Tony Allen is a really bad wing to play with Rondo.) If we see a full season of quality shooting from the field. But in the meantime 6 games doesn't overcome a sample of 6 years.
Leadership - I've never been in an NBA locker room so I'd rather not guess at it.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
As I agree with your first two lines. Chandler and West have done pretty well on their own. West being the number one option in Indy. Chandler winning a championship for the mavs and defensive player of the year with the Knicks.
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Part of CP value, is that he fits with anyone. Kind of like Paul Pierce at SF actually.
With Rondo you need a certain type of rotation behind him and at the wings. (e.g. Tony Allen is a really bad wing to play with Rondo.) If we see a full season of quality shooting from the field. But in the meantime 6 games doesn't overcome a sample of 6 years.
Leadership - I've never been in an NBA locker room so I'd rather not guess at it.
he fits with anyone...yeah that's why when the hornets replaced tysom chandler with emaka okafor he quit and okafor saw his play dropoff if anything... cute theory though
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Rondo improving his jumper is finally making a comparison more possible.
Rondo's overall game is fast approaching CP3 's and baring injuries , he should put out numbers better than CP3 consistantly from yr to yr.
ROndos best game stat wise I think will always be better than CP3 , as I belive Rondo is a superior physical player today.
Where CP3 has the advantage Night in and night out is more of a mental "ATTITUDE" about winning. Like Kobe , CP3 is 110% all in EVERY GAME is a must win , do or die situation. CP3 LEAVES it all on the floor , no matter what the circumstances. He may score only 5 points , but he did everything else a man could do to make up for not scoring , including carring the water bucket and towels to help his team.
Paul Pierce ccould play like this , never die I'll carry the team on back, so can KG, but they are getting too old to pull it off anymore. They know it and thats why they have given Rondo the Keys.
CP3 always seems to know HOW & When he has to take over , like Lebron has taken 8 years to figure it out. To me this is the sign of an ALstar, being able to take over a game at a critical point and pull the win out for your team.
Rondo is on the verge of having CP3 type leadership ..it shows up sporatically, he is just not shown this EVERY GAME yet or when the Celtics are down and out put the team on his back and assert his will on the game a t crunch time. D Rose could carry his team at a critical point.
One day he'll understand , its time for me to "GO" and get this win for my team.It comes natural to some players, Rondo like Lebron is figuring it out I think.
I think one thing I like about Avery Bradley , is he may have this CP3 gene of , its time for me to step up and make sure my team gets a win. Bradley seems to understand WHEN & WHAT is needed of him during a game.
Ah yes that Chris Paul is such a leader he quit on the hornets! And gee he really knows when to take over! Hence never getting out of the second round while rondo is the best playoff performer outside lebron James.....I love these fraudulant Chris Paul myths
Like KG quit on the T-Wolves?
Like Lebron quit on the Cavs?
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knicks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
As I agree with your first two lines. Chandler and West have done pretty well on their own. West being the number one option in Indy. Chandler winning a championship for the mavs and defensive player of the year with the Knicks.
But he made them look like offensive stars.
In Dallas, Chandler had another great PG in Kidd who did the same thing.
And West was not the number 1 option with the Pacers. Granger took 5 more shots a game then West last year. West took .5 more shots a game then Hibbert, .8 more shots then Barbosa and 1.1 shots more then Paul.
West as the number 1 option is leading to a losing record at the moment.
Yes, West has slowed down. But he is a nice complimentary scorer, not the go to scorer. Paul made him look like a go to scorer.
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Rondo improving his jumper is finally making a comparison more possible.
Rondo's overall game is fast approaching CP3 's and baring injuries , he should put out numbers better than CP3 consistantly from yr to yr.
ROndos best game stat wise I think will always be better than CP3 , as I belive Rondo is a superior physical player today.
Where CP3 has the advantage Night in and night out is more of a mental "ATTITUDE" about winning. Like Kobe , CP3 is 110% all in EVERY GAME is a must win , do or die situation. CP3 LEAVES it all on the floor , no matter what the circumstances. He may score only 5 points , but he did everything else a man could do to make up for not scoring , including carring the water bucket and towels to help his team.
Paul Pierce ccould play like this , never die I'll carry the team on back, so can KG, but they are getting too old to pull it off anymore. They know it and thats why they have given Rondo the Keys.
CP3 always seems to know HOW & When he has to take over , like Lebron has taken 8 years to figure it out. To me this is the sign of an ALstar, being able to take over a game at a critical point and pull the win out for your team.
Rondo is on the verge of having CP3 type leadership ..it shows up sporatically, he is just not shown this EVERY GAME yet or when the Celtics are down and out put the team on his back and assert his will on the game a t crunch time. D Rose could carry his team at a critical point.
One day he'll understand , its time for me to "GO" and get this win for my team.It comes natural to some players, Rondo like Lebron is figuring it out I think.
I think one thing I like about Avery Bradley , is he may have this CP3 gene of , its time for me to step up and make sure my team gets a win. Bradley seems to understand WHEN & WHAT is needed of him during a game.
Ah yes that Chris Paul is such a leader he quit on the hornets! And gee he really knows when to take over! Hence never getting out of the second round while rondo is the best playoff performer outside lebron James.....I love these fraudulant Chris Paul myths
Like KG quit on the T-Wolves?
Like Lebron quit on the Cavs?
The wolves quit on kg
Yep
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
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Chris Paul is better. No question.
Rondo is probably not even #2. That said... through 7 games, Rondo is actually barely outperforming Chris Paul. Rondo has an Efficiency number of 24.9 and Chris Paul has 24.6. So technically, Rondo has had second best stats of any point guard (Kyle Lowry is #1)... through 7 games. Last year Rondo was 5th and the year before that he was 7th... Chris Paul is constantly #1.
It should be noted, though... through 7 games, Rondo is averaging 8 more minutes per night... hence the slightly better stats. Their EFF per 48 minutes has Chris Paul well ahead of Rondo with 35.82 and Rondo behind Lowry, Jeff Teague and Kyrie Irving with 29.56. It's only been 7 games, though... we'll see how the season plays out.
Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
I don't think that comparing efficiency stats is the only way to decide which point guard is playing better.
Stats are what Boston homers use to support their impossible case that Rondo is better than Chris Paul. Chris Paul puts up better stats, though.
Pick a method other than Stats ("leadership", "clutch factor", etc). If it's not "Rebounding ability", Chris Paul is probably coming out on top.
For example... if you were to tell me that Rondo is better than Paul, because he's a "better passer", I'd point out that Chris Paul consistently has a better assist/turnover ratio.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
As I agree with your first two lines. Chandler and West have done pretty well on their own. West being the number one option in Indy. Chandler winning a championship for the mavs and defensive player of the year with the Knicks.
But he made them look like offensive stars.
In Dallas, Chandler had another great PG in Kidd who did the same thing.
And West was not the number 1 option with the Pacers. Granger took 5 more shots a game then West last year. West took .5 more shots a game then Hibbert, .8 more shots then Barbosa and 1.1 shots more then Paul.
West as the number 1 option is leading to a losing record at the moment.
Yes, West has slowed down. But he is a nice complimentary scorer, not the go to scorer. Paul made him look like a go to scorer.
Chandler's numbers on the Knicks are probably better than he had playing with CP.
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Part of CP value, is that he fits with anyone. Kind of like Paul Pierce at SF actually.
With Rondo you need a certain type of rotation behind him and at the wings. (e.g. Tony Allen is a really bad wing to play with Rondo.) If we see a full season of quality shooting from the field. But in the meantime 6 games doesn't overcome a sample of 6 years.
I can't count the number of posts about how you need a shooter like Ray for Rondo to be effective and Rondo didn't miss a beat. We also seem to need two jump shooting bigs like Bass and KG for Rondo to be effective, unless of course you play Perk or Shaq. He also seems to do fine with players like Lee and Terry.
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I give Paul the edge, because he'll play consistent nightly where as Rondo, tends play with a switch. One night Rondo's switch is on, then the next night his switch is off. Just my opinion.
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In Dallas, Chandler had another great PG in Kidd who did the same thing.
Just a matter of semantics really but Jason Kidd wasn't a great PG anymore when Dallas won the title. He really wasn't even a very good PG anymore. He was fairly average.
What Chandler did in Dallas was all about rebounds and defense and efficient offense and that offense had nothing to do with Kidd being his PG.
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Yeah im pretty sure rondo can play with anyone. TA was thriving playing along Rondo when he got minutes. Avery Bradley who many compare to a smaller TA has Celtics fans foaming at the mouth over what Rondo turned him into last year.
Rondo makes Bass a starter basically and people think Rondo would thrive with J Smith who is pretty much the opposite of Bass.
Im pretty sure Rondo would thrive with anyone on his team.
Just like im pretty sure Rondos assists wont drop down cause Ray allen left or if KG and Pierce weren't playing.
And sorry for the rant but the most lazy analysis of Chris Paul is "he took a lotto team to 2nd round of playoffs" ooooh sweet argument...
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Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
Got it in one, dude!
Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).
They got crushed by the Spurs... but the Spurs were Sherman's Marching their way through everyone right then, and when the other team can go to Greg Popovich and you're stuck staring at Vinny Del Negro's vancant expression and blank piece of paper, there's only so much one player can do.
*Of course, he might be the last of the traditional point guards still playing at an elite level.
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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).
There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).
There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.
Come on. Upgrading from Eric Gordon to Chris Paul took the Clippers from a 32 win team to a 50 win team in their FIRST year together. Paul was playing the Spurs with a strained right hip flexor/jammed finger and Super athletic Blake was playing with a sprained left knee.
This board (myself included) can often be very hypocritical. If injuries don't matter, then why aren't more CEltic fans worried about Avery Bradley's atrocious 37% shooting (22% from three and 66% from the line) in his 10 playoff games last year. 6.7 points per game and less than 1 steal and less than 1 block in starters minutes. Concerning performance from our future star shooting guard, right?
Fwiw, both the Nets and Clippers have a better regular season record than the Celtics as of right now.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
Dude, are u seriously using Chalmers and Rondo in the same conversation?
Ann Romney: 'Stop It'
LOL
There's not that much distance between Paul and Rondo. C'mon now.
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if you ask me this question last year, I would still say Chris Paul. As most of you said, he turned a lotto team in the clips to a 2nd round playoff team and they are still improving. He is able to lead the Hornets with limited talent to the playoffs and also to the 2nd round. The old argument was that he is a better shooter and finisher, but that is simply not the case anymore. As we have seen Rondo finishing the 76ers in game 7 last year and his game 2 performance against the Heat. That entire heat series, Rondo was our leader as well. So you can make a valid case on who is better.
Come this season, we have seen what kind of leader Rondo is. He has made this team, HIS team, and in that Bulls game, how Rondo refuse to lose. The last 3 possession Rondo all assisted on, 2 P&R and finding Bass wide open. His court vision is definitely on par if not better Chris Paul at this point.
I would say they are both tied at #1 pg spot atm...but I think Rondo has the edge cuz he is a slightly better defensive player...not by much but slightly better, and that he is healthier than Paul. As mode of you already said, if Rondo is not #1, then he is #2 and is catching up to Chris Paul really fast.
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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).
There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.
Blake Griffin has off-the-charts athleticism, and through each of his seasons he's added at least one new wrinkle to his game. He is, after all, only in his third year in the league. Right now he's floating somewhere around poor-man's Shawn Kemp.
But he's never been an elite player, just a highlight machine who sells a ton of jerseys and Kias.
And, also, they have VDN. The guy who forgot to sub Chris Paul back in during the playoffs.
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/953475/Del-Negro-12.22a.jpg)
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Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29.
Correction: Rondo was 15th among all players and 2nd among point guards last year in efficiency stats when you consider the entire season, which, of course, includes the post-season.
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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).
There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.
Blake Griffin has off-the-charts athleticism, and through each of his seasons he's added at least one new wrinkle to his game. He is, after all, only in his third year in the league. Right now he's floating somewhere around poor-man's Shawn Kemp.
But he's never been an elite player, just a highlight machine who sells a ton of jerseys and Kias.
And, also, they have VDN. The guy who forgot to sub Chris Paul back in during the playoffs.
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/953475/Del-Negro-12.22a.jpg)
Yup, I have to seriously question anyone who thinks that Blake Griffin and Vinny Del Negro gave a player a better shot to win a playoff game than Kevin Garnett and Doc Rivers in 2012.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have good teams around him while kg legitamately did not.
But again show me where I said rondo is better because he has a ring? Or at all for that matter, yes id take him but this is about Chris Paul being drastically overrated and has consistently been let off the hook..
lebron had worse teammates on the cavs and derrick rose with the bulls and they carried them to overachievement every year...if Chris Paul is the hands down unquestionable best pg and top 5 player with a better cast then those teams by far why hasn't he even sniffed similar success....because hes overrated
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have a good team around him while kg legitatmely didn't....I also think kg changed and learned from his mistakes in minnesota and and changed his approach in Boston where he became a true selfless team guy and leader
Easily lead the Clippers to the Finals? The franchise coached by Vinny Del Negro who has barely won a playoff series since Sterling bought the team? In a conference where Durant and Westbrook, Popovich, Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker, and the Lakers four Hall of Famers serves as his main competition? Yeah, sounds like a cake walk to me.
The Celtics managed to sneak by the monstrous all-time squads in Atlanta and Philadelphia, which combine for 0 future Hall of Famers.
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TP for you, sir!
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If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have good teams around him while kg legitamately did not.
Nobody wins a title by themselves today. The best player in the World could carry a team there, but not win.
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If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have good teams around him while kg legitamately did not.
Nobody wins a title by themselves today. The best player in the World could carry a team there, but not win.
Chris Paul is not by himself and simply never has been.
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have a good team around him while kg legitatmely didn't....I also think kg changed and learned from his mistakes in minnesota and and changed his approach in Boston where he became a true selfless team guy and leader
Easily lead the Clippers to the Finals? The franchise coached by Vinny Del Negro who has barely won a playoff series since Sterling bought the team? In a conference where Durant and Westbrook, Popovich, Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker, and the Lakers four Hall of Famers serves as his main competition? Yeah, sounds like a cake walk to me.
The Celtics managed to sneak by the monstrous all-time squads in Atlanta and Philadelphia, which combine for 0 future Hall of Famers.
If hes a top 5 player in the game he should be in contention for a title with that roster...he wont be. If okc can get through the west then the best pg in the game should with that explosive roster...wont happen
Just for thought how exciting would rondo be on the break with griffin and Jordan?
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have a good team around him while kg legitatmely didn't....I also think kg changed and learned from his mistakes in minnesota and and changed his approach in Boston where he became a true selfless team guy and leader
Easily lead the Clippers to the Finals? The franchise coached by Vinny Del Negro who has barely won a playoff series since Sterling bought the team? In a conference where Durant and Westbrook, Popovich, Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker, and the Lakers four Hall of Famers serves as his main competition? Yeah, sounds like a cake walk to me.
The Celtics managed to sneak by the monstrous all-time squads in Atlanta and Philadelphia, which combine for 0 future Hall of Famers.
If hes a top 5 player in the game he should be in contention for a title with that roster...he wont be. If okc can get through the west then the best pg in the game should with that explosive roster
I guess you think more of the Clippers roster and coaching than some of us do. I respectfully disagree and would rather have Durant's, Dwight's, or Duncan's supporting casts.
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If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have good teams around him while kg legitamately did not.
Nobody wins a title by themselves today. The best player in the World could carry a team there, but not win.
Chris Paul is not by himself and simply never has been.
And thus he has lead his team to moderate success in the playoffs.
He now has a player with the potential to be a true 2nd star in Blake, but he isn't there yet.
The star depth of the top teams has gone up since the current Celtics first got together.
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For what it's worth, the only players who can lay claim to single-handedly dragging a team to the Finals in the modern era of basketball: Allen Iverson and LBJ (Cavs edition).
As I recall, it didn't work out all that well for either of them. Also, neither of them were point guards (in case that needs to be said).
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Nothing of my opinion has changed.
Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)
Rondo is a top 5 PG.
On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs
Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.
Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team.
Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)
And is given that respect by most of his peers.
First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.
Clippers were on the way up anyways
Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.
Great,hes popular
Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?
Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.
Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that
He had players on his team with better talent.
At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough. At least KG still has an owner.
Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court. Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.
I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best? Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.
Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.
When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so
also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching. Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player. We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player. Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players. Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard. Rondo was #29. Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3. He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game. One of the league's best defenders. He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.
You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair. That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.
It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title. Is that exaggerated? Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.
This is a silly debate. Chris Paul is better. No question. If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo". There's a solid case for each side. I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title. But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now. Much better debate. Go with that one.
If Chris Paul is as good as you say he is then he can easily lead that clippers roster to the finals...and he wont come close. Its essentially a myth he doesn't have a good team around him while kg legitatmely didn't....I also think kg changed and learned from his mistakes in minnesota and and changed his approach in Boston where he became a true selfless team guy and leader
Easily lead the Clippers to the Finals? The franchise coached by Vinny Del Negro who has barely won a playoff series since Sterling bought the team? In a conference where Durant and Westbrook, Popovich, Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker, and the Lakers four Hall of Famers serves as his main competition? Yeah, sounds like a cake walk to me.
The Celtics managed to sneak by the monstrous all-time squads in Atlanta and Philadelphia, which combine for 0 future Hall of Famers.
If hes a top 5 player in the game he should be in contention for a title with that roster...he wont be. If okc can get through the west then the best pg in the game should with that explosive roster
I guess you think more of the Clippers roster and coaching than some of us do. I respectfully disagree and would rather have Durant's, Dwight's, or Duncan's supporting casts.
That's because you think Chris Paul is better then he really is...I'm not sure id rather have durants roster....switch those 2players and okc is fodder if even that and the clippers are much much better
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For what it's worth, the only players who can lay claim to single-handedly dragging a team to the Finals in the modern era of basketball: Allen Iverson and LBJ (Cavs edition).
As I recall, it didn't work out all that well for either of them. Also, neither of them were point guards (in case that needs to be said).
Chris Paul has a better cast then either of those teams and its not close if hes as good as everyone says he should be able to get the clippers to the finals...wont happen...doubtful they get out of the first round and he will then quit on the clippers franchise
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
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For what it's worth, the only players who can lay claim to single-handedly dragging a team to the Finals in the modern era of basketball: Allen Iverson and LBJ (Cavs edition).
As I recall, it didn't work out all that well for either of them. Also, neither of them were point guards (in case that needs to be said).
Chris Paul has a better cast then either of those teams and its not close if hes as good as everyone says he should be able to get the clippers to the finals...wont happen
And a harder path.
AI's team (that was carried by the defense, not his offense) had to beat the Thomas coached Pacers, the Carter Raptors and the Ray Allen/Big Dog/Cassell Bucks before being destroyed by the Lakers.
Paul has had to get past the Duncan Spurs (multiple titles), the Lakers (multiple titles) as well as strong teams like the Suns and Mavs.
Lebron is the exception carrying his Cavs past the Pistons. Lebron, the best player in the world.
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
You're proving my point...Ai and Lbj were only at that time top5 players and carried lesser teams to the finals and once again Chris Paul wont come close
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
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For what it's worth, the only players who can lay claim to single-handedly dragging a team to the Finals in the modern era of basketball: Allen Iverson and LBJ (Cavs edition).
As I recall, it didn't work out all that well for either of them. Also, neither of them were point guards (in case that needs to be said).
Chris Paul has a better cast then either of those teams and its not close if hes as good as everyone says he should be able to get the clippers to the finals...wont happen
And a harder path.
AI's team (that was carried by the defense, not his offense) had to beat the Thomas coached Pacers, the Carter Raptors and the Ray Allen/Big Dog/Cassell Bucks before being destroyed by the Lakers.
Paul has had to get past the Duncan Spurs (multiple titles), the Lakers (multiple titles) as well as strong teams like the Suns and Mavs.
Lebron is the exception carrying his Cavs past the Pistons. Lebron, the best player in the world.
He did that before he was the best in the world.
Lets just line up more excuses for Paul...when they inevitably lose in the 1st round this year and he quits on another franchise and bolts to play with Dwight somewhere I guess then we will see.
Poor Blake griffin..everyones rising star and fan favorite before Chris Paul arrives..he does and they're not a contender and I guess its griffin is another bum not helping Chris Paul much like the myth he made tyson chandler....the same tyson chandler who took the mavericks from fodder to a world champion
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
You stick AI with a quality big who's equally obsessed with winning and you're on the path to good things.
Like if he'd made it to the T-Wolves with KG. Those dudes would've complemented each other well, both in competitive attitude and on the court. (and they would've emotionally abused everyone else in that locker room to the point where we'd still be reading hilarious stories about it).
But now things are getting silly.
If you don't think Chris Paul's team is awful, especially compared to their playoff contemporaries, then you're not paying attention.
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Chris Paul comes in and makes teams pesky little first round playoff fodder...I'm sure rondo could do the same with the clippers roster and id prefer rondo for our roster. Guys like rose lebron durant make the team there on contenders....the clippers aren't because Chris Paul is a good but very overrated player
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
Not to mention the famed "LEASTern Conference" was a total joke at the time. Whether it was AI's 76ers or Kidd's Nets, whoever came out of the East was total fodder for the Lakers and Spurs (or Kings had they ever made it that far). No comparison there. Even our painfully mediocre Walker/Pierce team almost made a run one year. All the best players/big men were out west (KG, Shaq, Duncan, Webber, etc).
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For what it's worth, the only players who can lay claim to single-handedly dragging a team to the Finals in the modern era of basketball: Allen Iverson and LBJ (Cavs edition).
As I recall, it didn't work out all that well for either of them. Also, neither of them were point guards (in case that needs to be said).
Chris Paul has a better cast then either of those teams and its not close if hes as good as everyone says he should be able to get the clippers to the finals...wont happen
And a harder path.
AI's team (that was carried by the defense, not his offense) had to beat the Thomas coached Pacers, the Carter Raptors and the Ray Allen/Big Dog/Cassell Bucks before being destroyed by the Lakers.
Paul has had to get past the Duncan Spurs (multiple titles), the Lakers (multiple titles) as well as strong teams like the Suns and Mavs.
Lebron is the exception carrying his Cavs past the Pistons. Lebron, the best player in the world.
He did that before he was the best in the world.
Lets just line up more excuses for Paul...when they inevitably lose in the 1st round this year and he quits on another franchise and bolts to play with Dwight somewhere I guess then we will see.
Poor Blake griffin..everyones rising star and fan favorite before Chris Paul arrives..he does and they're not a contender and I guess its griffin is another bum not helping Chris Paul much like the myth he made tyson chandler....the same tyson chandler who took the mavericks from fodder to a world champion
Not excuses, facts.
Griffin is an exceptional athlete who doesn't have enough dimensions to his game yet. (they key is yet. He is still improving)
And they were successful last year. They went from lotto to losing in the 2nd round to the team with the best regular season record that year loaded with stars that have won titles.
And Dallas went to the finals before Chandler so I wouldn't call them a "bum team".
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Chris Paul comes in and makes teams pesky little first round playoff fodder...I'm sure rondo could do the same with the clippers roster and id prefer rondo for our roster. Guys like rose lebron durant make the team there on contenders....the clippers aren't because Chris Paul is a good but very overrated player
Nobody is saying Chris Paul is better than LeBron or Durant... we're saying he's better than Rondo. He's the best point guard in the league and a top 5 player. Rondo is a top 5 point guard. If Rondo was playing with that Clippers team, it's probable he'd be asked to score more (thus getting less assists), but there's zero evidence to suggest he'll score as efficiently and effectively as Chris Paul or that his turnovers would somehow be cut in half to Chris Paul levels or that his defense would inexplicably take rise to another level. Rondo's a great player in his own right... but Chris Paul is better.
Paul/Griffin's Clippers are off to a better start than KG/Pierce/Rondo's Celtics... let's see how this season plays out.
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
You stick AI with a quality big who's equally obsessed with winning and you're on the path to good things.
Like if he'd made it to the T-Wolves with KG. Those dudes would've complemented each other well, both in competitive attitude and on the court. (and they would've emotionally abused everyone else in that locker room to the point where we'd still be reading hilarious stories about it).
But now things are getting silly.
If you don't think Chris Paul's team is awful, especially compared to their playoff contemporaries, then you're not paying attention.
AI had Mutumbo. A guy that won defensive player of the year 4 times. Compared to Chandler who won it once.
AI Got Webber who went from averaging 20 points a game that year with the Kings to 15 points a game with the 76ers. (shooting % dropped from 45% to under 40% as well)
AI didn't play well with others.
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Other opinions of Paul (today)
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-121114/nba-heat-clippers-thunder-grizzlies-questions
2. Fact or Fiction: The Clippers are title contenders.
Gutierrez: Fact. Not only have returning Clippers (DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin) improved, but the team is significantly deeper, with Jamal Crawford taking over at times. And what teams out west can you really say are clearly better? They've beaten the Spurs, the Lakers remain a question mark and the Thunder still aren't sure if they're as good as they were last season.
Haberstroh: Fact. Why not? As long as Chris Paul is on the team, I'm not worried about DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin being liabilities in crunch time. With a knack for delivering under pressure with limitless creativity, Paul is a basketball-wielding James Bond. The question is, will the Clippers go far in the playoffs because of Vinny Del Negro or despite him?
Widdoes: Fact. Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and an emerging DeAndre Jordan make them a top-five offense, and now that they've crept into the top 10 in defensive efficiency, they have a chance. They also have the three keys for playoff success: great size, depth and Eric Bledsoe.
Young: Fact. For this type of question, I always ask, "Could they beat the Thunder/Lakers/Spurs in a seven-game series?" And with a healthy Chris Paul, a better-than-ever DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin and a highly capable bench, the Clippers are built to beat anyone. They have a slimmer margin for error than some of their top Western Conference competitors, but Paul is fully equipped to make up the difference.
Dewey: Fact: Chris Paul has vastly increased the Clippers' defensive communication. They've actually got top-10 defense right now, and they actually look like one. Eric Bledsoe looks like a star sixth man and Jamal Crawford looks great, too. It's a valid question whether this will hold up until May, but the outline for a contender is there.
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
You stick AI with a quality big who's equally obsessed with winning and you're on the path to good things.
Like if he'd made it to the T-Wolves with KG. Those dudes would've complemented each other well, both in competitive attitude and on the court. (and they would've emotionally abused everyone else in that locker room to the point where we'd still be reading hilarious stories about it).
But now things are getting silly.
If you don't think Chris Paul's team is awful, especially compared to their playoff contemporaries, then you're not paying attention.
AI had Mutumbo. A guy that won defensive player of the year 4 times. Compared to Chandler who won it once.
AI Got Webber who went from averaging 20 points a game that year with the Kings to 15 points a game with the 76ers. (shooting % dropped from 45% to under 40% as well)
AI didn't play well with others.
Officially 35-year-old Mutombo. Unofficially, somewhere around 40.
And a finished Chris Webber after the surgery.
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
You stick AI with a quality big who's equally obsessed with winning and you're on the path to good things.
Like if he'd made it to the T-Wolves with KG. Those dudes would've complemented each other well, both in competitive attitude and on the court. (and they would've emotionally abused everyone else in that locker room to the point where we'd still be reading hilarious stories about it).
But now things are getting silly.
If you don't think Chris Paul's team is awful, especially compared to their playoff contemporaries, then you're not paying attention.
AI had Mutumbo. A guy that won defensive player of the year 4 times. Compared to Chandler who won it once.
AI Got Webber who went from averaging 20 points a game that year with the Kings to 15 points a game with the 76ers. (shooting % dropped from 45% to under 40% as well)
AI didn't play well with others.
Officially 35-year-old Mutombo. Unofficially, somewhere around 40.
And a finished Chris Webber after the surgery.
Mutumbo who earned his 4th defensive player of the year award that season. Who was an all-star that year and the next.
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Both dudes who had peaked aeons before they showed up on the 76ers.
But now I'm probably protesting too much. :P
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A) Naturally, swapping a 6-11 wing who may be the most effortless "points on the board" scorer since a healthy T-Mac and a 6-0 point guard makes perfect sense.
B) I'd take 2001 AI or 2007 LBJ over CP3 in a heart-beat, but I brought them up to illustrate the silliness of your "can't bring them to the finals" argument.
I would never take AI over Paul. It is just about impossible to put together a title team around AI. It took Larry Brown finding a bunch of really good team defenders that would stay interested in playing defense while watching a selfish undersized SG just toss up shot after shot.
Give me the talented guy that can play with others and make them better over talented guy that only plays for their own glory.
You stick AI with a quality big who's equally obsessed with winning and you're on the path to good things.
Like if he'd made it to the T-Wolves with KG. Those dudes would've complemented each other well, both in competitive attitude and on the court. (and they would've emotionally abused everyone else in that locker room to the point where we'd still be reading hilarious stories about it).
But now things are getting silly.
If you don't think Chris Paul's team is awful, especially compared to their playoff contemporaries, then you're not paying attention.
AI had Mutumbo. A guy that won defensive player of the year 4 times. Compared to Chandler who won it once.
AI Got Webber who went from averaging 20 points a game that year with the Kings to 15 points a game with the 76ers. (shooting % dropped from 45% to under 40% as well)
AI didn't play well with others.
Officially 35-year-old Mutombo. Unofficially, somewhere around 40.
And a finished Chris Webber after the surgery.
Mutombo who earned his 4th defensive player of the year award that season. Who was an all-star that year and the next.
And they had a block machine in Ratliff as well, right.
Again, who was the second-highest scorer in that team?
On a side note, Dikembe Mutombo is my all-time favorite basketball player. He is the reason I'm watching basketball today, so, it's nothing personal for me to argue with your point.
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Biggest Rondo fan. But yes CP3 is still better. Boy's clutch and performs in the biggest moments.
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Just to throw this out there, I would never go with AI over Rondo either.
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Not even at the free throw line? ;)
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I wouldn't swap Rajon for CP3 of Irving.
No way.
If they want to impress me, they can start by winning a playoff game with a dislocated elbow.
I would trade Rondo and Bradley for Irving. Irving is going to be better than anyone very soon. And can carry a franchise.
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Chris Paul is better. No question.
Rondo is probably not even #2. That said... through 7 games, Rondo is actually barely outperforming Chris Paul. Rondo has an Efficiency number of 24.9 and Chris Paul has 24.6. So technically, Rondo has had second best stats of any point guard (Kyle Lowry is #1)... through 7 games. Last year Rondo was 5th and the year before that he was 7th... Chris Paul is constantly #1.
It should be noted, though... through 7 games, Rondo is averaging 8 more minutes per night... hence the slightly better stats. Their EFF per 48 minutes has Chris Paul well ahead of Rondo with 35.82 and Rondo behind Lowry, Jeff Teague and Kyrie Irving with 29.56. It's only been 7 games, though... we'll see how the season plays out.
Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
I don't think that comparing efficiency stats is the only way to decide which point guard is playing better.
Stats are what Boston homers use to support their impossible case that Rondo is better than Chris Paul. Chris Paul puts up better stats, though.
Pick a method other than Stats ("leadership", "clutch factor", etc). If it's not "Rebounding ability", Chris Paul is probably coming out on top.
For example... if you were to tell me that Rondo is better than Paul, because he's a "better passer", I'd point out that Chris Paul consistently has a better assist/turnover ratio.
Dude, im not asking this cause you think CP3 is better than Rondo, rather because of the stuff I consistently see you write on this forum, but, are you a Celtics fan? I'm genuinely curious.
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Funny that this discussion is even taking place in the midst of Rondo setting records that none of the other guards in question have even dreamed of.
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Funny that this discussion is even taking place in the midst of Rondo setting records that none of the other guards in question have even dreamed of.
As is often said here and in other discussions about the Celtics: We care about rings, not records.
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Chris Paul is better. No question.
Rondo is probably not even #2. That said... through 7 games, Rondo is actually barely outperforming Chris Paul. Rondo has an Efficiency number of 24.9 and Chris Paul has 24.6. So technically, Rondo has had second best stats of any point guard (Kyle Lowry is #1)... through 7 games. Last year Rondo was 5th and the year before that he was 7th... Chris Paul is constantly #1.
It should be noted, though... through 7 games, Rondo is averaging 8 more minutes per night... hence the slightly better stats. Their EFF per 48 minutes has Chris Paul well ahead of Rondo with 35.82 and Rondo behind Lowry, Jeff Teague and Kyrie Irving with 29.56. It's only been 7 games, though... we'll see how the season plays out.
Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league. Rondo leads the league in assists. Hard to argue against either of these statements.
I don't think that comparing efficiency stats is the only way to decide which point guard is playing better.
Stats are what Boston homers use to support their impossible case that Rondo is better than Chris Paul. Chris Paul puts up better stats, though.
Pick a method other than Stats ("leadership", "clutch factor", etc). If it's not "Rebounding ability", Chris Paul is probably coming out on top.
For example... if you were to tell me that Rondo is better than Paul, because he's a "better passer", I'd point out that Chris Paul consistently has a better assist/turnover ratio.
Dude, im not asking this cause you think CP3 is better than Rondo, rather because of the stuff I consistently see you write on this forum, but, are you a Celtics fan? I'm genuinely curious.
He (or she) is probably the only person I routinely skip their posts. Spews nothing but negativety, often unwarranted and almost always unnecessary. Whatever floats his boat I guess, but I'm glad there aren't many more of these types on the board.
But back to the topic, I still don't think Rondo is at Chris Paul's level. But it's like saying Durant isn't at LeBron's.
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But if you swapped Rondo to the Thunder and LeBron to the Clippers, would you be able to make French Toast without any bread?
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Since I really think comparing two players is really a corrupted concept, I will rather opt to have fun in it and say it's only about the number of "Holy cow!"s you spit out unintentionally while watching.
And Rondo is the best holy-cow PG since prime time Jason Kidd.
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Since I really think comparing two players is really a corrupted concept, I will rather opt to have fun in it and say it's only about the number of "Holy cow!"s you spit out unintentionally while watching.
And Rondo is the best holy-cow PG since prime time Jason Kidd.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5svx9AELq1qbaj4uo1_1280.jpg)
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals if Chris Paul is as good as I'm told.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
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Funny that this discussion is even taking place in the midst of Rondo setting records that none of the other guards in question have even dreamed of.
As is often said here and in other discussions about the Celtics: We care about rings, not records.
Chris Paul has rings?
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
It is unknown at this point. It depends on the growth of Griffin.
He still has to get past two players that would be considered top 5 players with a lot more talent. (Durrant and Howard) Not to mention the West version of the Celtics, the Spurs.
I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
"If we had Chris Paul we would have won the title"
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
And Rondo was not the player he is now yet. That was still clearly Pierce/KG's team.
I still think this type of thinking is pointless. Rondo who has improved has not gotten as far as a young with lots of room for growth Rondo. Now Rondo is still clearly better. The rest of the team has taken steps back prevented titles in those years, not Rondo's talent.
But some are knocking Paul for not getting his team past the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs or Thunder?
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
"If we had Chris Paul we would have won the title"
If we had Chris Paul we could have easily lost to the Cavs.
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
And Rondo was not the player he is now yet. That was still clearly Pierce/KG's team.
Rondo was quite a player back then, many people just hadn't figured it out yet because they were too focused on his shooting and his attitude. 14/10 during the season, all-star, 1st team all-defense, finished 3rd among point guards and well higher than PP or KG in all-nba voting. Led the league in steals, 4th in assists/game. He was the main reason we got past the Cavs and widely seen as one of the league's top playoff performers (16/6/9).
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
It is unknown at this point. It depends on the growth of Griffin.
He still has to get past two players that would be considered top 5 players with a lot more talent. (Durrant and Howard) Not to mention the West version of the Celtics, the Spurs.
I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
? Another myth. The celtics made the finals in 2010 and rondo was there best player in the playoffs and outplayed lebron in the cavaliers series with one of the most epic games of the era...and had a triple double in game 1 of the finals and the lakers were keyed on stopping rondo to behead the celtics. In 2007 he was a role player.
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
And Rondo was not the player he is now yet. That was still clearly Pierce/KG's team.
I still think this type of thinking is pointless. Rondo who has improved has not gotten as far as a young with lots of room for growth Rondo. Now Rondo is still clearly better. The rest of the team has taken steps back prevented titles in those years, not Rondo's talent.
But some are knocking Paul for not getting his team past the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs or Thunder?
Uh that was kgs worst year as a Celtic...he was a shell of himself in 2010 coming off injury and was dominated by gasol in he finals....rondo carried us there moreso then pierce and kg in those playoffs...sorry
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
It is unknown at this point. It depends on the growth of Griffin.
He still has to get past two players that would be considered top 5 players with a lot more talent. (Durrant and Howard) Not to mention the West version of the Celtics, the Spurs.
I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
? Another myth. The celtics made the finals in 2010 and rondo was there best player in the playoffs and outplayed lebron in the cavaliers series with one of the most epic games of the era...and had a triple double in game 1 of the finals and the lakers were keyed on stopping rondo to behead the celtics. In 2007 he was a role player.
Fact, the Celtics defense creamed all the top swingmen that season. (Lebron and Kobe)
The differences in the Celtics winning and losing was the talent level of the other team's big man.
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
And Rondo was not the player he is now yet. That was still clearly Pierce/KG's team.
Rondo was quite a player back then, many people just hadn't figured it out yet because they were too focused on his shooting and his attitude. 14/10 during the season, all-star, 1st team all-defense, finished 3rd among point guards and well higher than PP or KG in all-nba voting. Led the league in steals, 4th in assists/game. He was the main reason we got past the Cavs and widely seen as one of the league's top playoff performers (16/6/9).
Exactly...tp
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
It is unknown at this point. It depends on the growth of Griffin.
He still has to get past two players that would be considered top 5 players with a lot more talent. (Durrant and Howard) Not to mention the West version of the Celtics, the Spurs.
I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
? Another myth. The celtics made the finals in 2010 and rondo was there best player in the playoffs and outplayed lebron in the cavaliers series with one of the most epic games of the era...and had a triple double in game 1 of the finals and the lakers were keyed on stopping rondo to behead the celtics. In 2007 he was a role player.
Fact, the Celtics defense creamed all the top swingmen that season. (Lebron and Kobe)
The differences in the Celtics winning and losing was the talent level of the other team's big man.
Grasping for straws I see...we made it past the best big man in the league that year to make the finals and rondo was the best Celtic in that series as well
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And all of this "discussion" has absolutely no bearing on the actual question of the thread.
KG wasn't the player with the T-Wolves that he was in Boston because:
a) He must have quit on his team. They were in the lotto and he wanted to be traded. (this also makes him lacking in the leadership department)
b) He did not make it to the finals.
These are the main arguments against Paul right now.
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And all of this "discussion" has absolutely no bearing on the actual question of the thread.
KG wasn't the player with the T-Wolves that he was in Boston because:
a) He must have quit on his team. They were in the lotto and he wanted to be traded. (this also makes him lacking in the leadership department)
b) He did not make it to the finals.
These are the main arguments against Paul right now.
Also, if you say anything that could possibly be perceived as a slight on Rondo's game, you're going to get jumped on by some posters on these forums. Even the smallest item seems to get harped on. It's a joke.
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
It is unknown at this point. It depends on the growth of Griffin.
He still has to get past two players that would be considered top 5 players with a lot more talent. (Durrant and Howard) Not to mention the West version of the Celtics, the Spurs.
I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
? Another myth. The celtics made the finals in 2010 and rondo was there best player in the playoffs and outplayed lebron in the cavaliers series with one of the most epic games of the era...and had a triple double in game 1 of the finals and the lakers were keyed on stopping rondo to behead the celtics. In 2007 he was a role player.
Fact, the Celtics defense creamed all the top swingmen that season. (Lebron and Kobe)
The differences in the Celtics winning and losing was the talent level of the other team's big man.
Grasping for straws I see...we made it past the best big man in the league that year to make the finals and rondo was the best Celtic in that series as well
No. Both Lebron and Kobe played well under their averages against the Celtics. I have pointed this out in the past when posters would use Lebron's numbers (which were better then Kobe) vs. the Celtics in the playoffs as evidence that he quit.
And no where did I say Rondo didn't play great and was an important piece of the puzzle. Rondo is just better now.
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I'm gonna answer this at the end of this year. I think they are close. They both have the talent *Teams* to make a serious push for the NBA finals this year. Neither are the favorites but that doesn't mean their team can't pull it off if their floor general steps up in a big way in big games in the playoffs. Lets see which PG steps up and pushes their team there if either can even do it.
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I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
The Celts went to the finals in 2010.
And Rondo was not the player he is now yet. That was still clearly Pierce/KG's team.
I disagree. The team that went to the finals was a big 3 made up of Pierce, KG and Rondo team. Saying otherwise is discounting the work and heart Rondo poured into that playoff run.
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
Which would make a ton of sense if basketball were an individual sport, sadly it is a team sport. Maybe Derek Fisher is the best point guard in the league. Perhaps Mario Chalmers was the best point guard in the league last year.
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
Which would make a ton of sense if basketball were an individual sport, sadly it is a team sport.
By the same token the "team sport" aspect is at the heart of many of the pro Rondo arguments. Rondo impacts the game in so many ways that his contribution to the team is generally greater than many players that put up better stats than him.
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Player A: 14.3 points, 4.9 rebounds, 12.5 assists, 2.1 steals, 3.1 turnovers,.526 eFG%, .534 TS%, 38.9 minutes, leads 14th rated offense in NBA
Player B: 17.0 points, 3.3 rebounds, 10.3 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.1 turnovers, .522 eFG%, .617 TS%, 32.6 minutes, leads 4th rated offense in NBA
Player A: 11.6 assists, 2.9 turnovers per 36 minutes
Player B: 11.3 assists, 2.3 turnovers per 36 minutes
Statistically, you've got to give it to Player B by a slim margin thus far. He scores more (in fewer minutes), scores more efficiently, and gets assists at about the same rate (while having fewer turnovers).
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
Which would make a ton of sense if basketball were an individual sport, sadly it is a team sport.
By the same token the "team sport" aspect is at the heart of many of the pro Rondo arguments. Rondo impacts the game in so many ways that his contribution to the team is generally greater than many players that put up better stats than him.
While that is true about Rondo, it is also true about Paul.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
Who cares what two different players stats would look like if they played the same amount of time. Being able to be on the court for more minutes is a "talent" in and of itself. Conversely, it could very easily be argued that if the player who plays less minutes tried to play more they would become a net negative on-court. Ths also assumes the player they are being replaced with s contributing at least as much, which is totally unreliable.
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
Which would make a ton of sense if basketball were an individual sport, sadly it is a team sport.
By the same token the "team sport" aspect is at the heart of many of the pro Rondo arguments. Rondo impacts the game in so many ways that his contribution to the team is generally greater than many players that put up better stats than him.
While that is true about Rondo, it is also true about Paul.
More true about Paul than any other pg Rondo's compared to, but less true (IMO) than it is about Rondo, especially in the playoffs.
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
Which would make a ton of sense if basketball were an individual sport, sadly it is a team sport.
By the same token the "team sport" aspect is at the heart of many of the pro Rondo arguments. Rondo impacts the game in so many ways that his contribution to the team is generally greater than many players that put up better stats than him.
While that is true about Rondo, it is also true about Paul.
More true about Paul than any other pg Rondo's compared to, but less true (IMO) than it is about Rondo, especially in the playoffs.
I'd disagree with that, both in the season and the playoffs, but I guess that can be subjective since it is impossible to truly quantify.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
Who cares what two different players stats would look like if they played the same amount of time. Being able to be on the court for more minutes is a "talent" in and of itself. Conversely, it could very easily be argued that if the player who plays less minutes tried to play more they would become a net negative on-court. Ths also assumes the player they are being replaced with s contributing at least as much, which is totally unreliable.
That's not a talent, that's a bad rotation.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
Who cares what two different players stats would look like if they played the same amount of time. Being able to be on the court for more minutes is a "talent" in and of itself. Conversely, it could very easily be argued that if the player who plays less minutes tried to play more they would become a net negative on-court. Ths also assumes the player they are being replaced with s contributing at least as much, which is totally unreliable.
That's not a talent, that's a bad rotation.
Yeah, there are a multitude of reasons that one player might play more minutes than another other than the "talent" to do so.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
I disagree. When players play roughly equal minutes, it's a good comparison tool to show how much a guy is producing per minute.
They're less relevant when comparing, say, a guy who plays 8 minutes per night versus another playing 38, because in that case you're extrapolating minutes to a guy who may not be capable of playing them.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
I disagree. When players play roughly equal minutes, it's a good comparison tool to show how much a guy is producing per minute.
They're less relevant when comparing, say, a guy who plays 8 minutes per night versus another playing 38, because in that case you're extrapolating minutes to a guy who may not be capable of playing them.
You're still comparing extrapolated numbers, just to a lesser degree. They're meaningless.
A player who consistently plays about 6-8 minutes per game more than another player is giving their team something the othe rplayer can not. It's quite likely that if the player who plays less tried to play more their contribution in the addtional minutes would be less significant.
Being able to play more minutes is definitely a "plus", for a variety of reasons.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
Who cares what two different players stats would look like if they played the same amount of time. Being able to be on the court for more minutes is a "talent" in and of itself. Conversely, it could very easily be argued that if the player who plays less minutes tried to play more they would become a net negative on-court. Ths also assumes the player they are being replaced with s contributing at least as much, which is totally unreliable.
That's not a talent, that's a bad rotation.
Yeah, there are a multitude of reasons that one player might play more minutes than another other than the "talent" to do so.
When it is consistent that one player plays significantly more minutes, it is almost always due to ability to do so, generally a result of better conditioning. This is a attribute of atheletic ability, thus a "talent" in the sense that any atheletic attribute would be.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
I disagree. When players play roughly equal minutes, it's a good comparison tool to show how much a guy is producing per minute.
They're less relevant when comparing, say, a guy who plays 8 minutes per night versus another playing 38, because in that case you're extrapolating minutes to a guy who may not be capable of playing them.
You're still comparing extrapolated numbers, just to a lesser degree. They're meaningless.
A player who consistently plays about 6-8 minutes per game more than another player is giving their team something the othe rplayer can not. It's quite likely that if the player who plays less tried to play more their contribution in the addtional minutes would be less significant.
Being able to play more minutes is definitely a "plus", for a variety of reasons.
Or the team is controlling the minutes a player plays.
I know a lot of posters on here who want to see Rondo's minutes reduced for health and energy reasons. It doesn't mean he is less of a player.
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
Who cares what two different players stats would look like if they played the same amount of time. Being able to be on the court for more minutes is a "talent" in and of itself. Conversely, it could very easily be argued that if the player who plays less minutes tried to play more they would become a net negative on-court. Ths also assumes the player they are being replaced with s contributing at least as much, which is totally unreliable.
That's not a talent, that's a bad rotation.
Yeah, there are a multitude of reasons that one player might play more minutes than another other than the "talent" to do so.
When it is consistent that one player plays significantly more minutes, it is almost always due to ability to do so, generally a result of better conditioning. This is a attribute of atheletic ability, thus a "talent" in the sense that any atheletic attribute would be.
Well, considering Rondo played 0.5 and 1.2 minutes more than CP3 over the last two years, and CP3 played 1.4 minutes more the year prior, I'd say that isn't really a measure of one player's talent over the other.
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Lol@ the clippers not having a good enough roster to make the finals.
Watching the clippers Chris Paul hardly pops off the screen after watching rondo regularly, sorry
It is unknown at this point. It depends on the growth of Griffin.
He still has to get past two players that would be considered top 5 players with a lot more talent. (Durrant and Howard) Not to mention the West version of the Celtics, the Spurs.
I guess we should knock Rondo for the same thing. Since he became the star he is, the Celtics haven't won a title. Haven't been to the Finals.
? Another myth. The celtics made the finals in 2010 and rondo was there best player in the playoffs and outplayed lebron in the cavaliers series with one of the most epic games of the era...and had a triple double in game 1 of the finals and the lakers were keyed on stopping rondo to behead the celtics. In 2007 he was a role player.
Fact, the Celtics defense creamed all the top swingmen that season. (Lebron and Kobe)
The differences in the Celtics winning and losing was the talent level of the other team's big man.
Grasping for straws I see...we made it past the best big man in the league that year to make the finals and rondo was the best Celtic in that series as well
No. Both Lebron and Kobe played well under their averages against the Celtics. I have pointed this out in the past when posters would use Lebron's numbers (which were better then Kobe) vs. the Celtics in the playoffs as evidence that he quit.
And no where did I say Rondo didn't play great and was an important piece of the puzzle. Rondo is just better now.
I don't see how pointing out hes much better now then he was when he was a top 3 player on a finals team and our best playoff performer helps your case....and I agree the thibodeau defensive schemes was key as well..what's the point
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
Who said he is the greatest ever?
And did I say he was better because of FT shooting?
And if I am overrating him, then so are most of his peers that play with and against him.
And yes, the Clippers lost to a Spurs team that had posted the best record that season.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
I think you underrate him if you're putting him behind Dirk Nowitzki or outside the top-5.
LeBron, Dwight, Durant, Chris Paul, in that order.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
I think you underrate him if you're putting him behind Dirk Nowitzki or outside the top-5.
LeBron, Dwight, Durant, Chris Paul, in that order.
Yep.
That 5th guy is the hardest one to name.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
Who said he is the greatest ever?
And did I say he was better because of FT shooting?
And if I am overrating him, then so are most of his peers that play with and against him.
And yes, the Clippers lost to a Spurs team that had posted the best record that season.
Shouldnt the best pg in the game be able to carve up an average defensive spurs team like Russell westbrook and James harden for even 1 win in that series? Oh well its the furthest hes been in the playoffs so congrats to that. He had a case for top 5 player in 1 season the year we won the title.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
I think you underrate him if you're putting him behind Dirk Nowitzki or outside the top-5.
LeBron, Dwight, Durant, Chris Paul, in that order.
In 2007? How is he even better then carmelo or Kobe or rose? Sorry not seeing it hes done nothing to prove otherwise....he has a good chance to prove me wrong because if hes as good as you say the clippers could be in the finals and should be in the conference finals
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If you replace dirk nowitzki wit Chris Paul on the mavericks title team do you make it out of the first round? Sorry not a top player...top pg sure...better than rondo? Eh barely
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If you replace dirk nowitzki wit Chris Paul on the mavericks title team do you make it out of the first round? Sorry not a top player...top pg sure...better than rondo? Eh barely
Are you of the opinion that if you replaced Dirk Nowinski, one of the most dominate big men of this generation, with Rajon Rondo, they go any farther? For sure not.
All your analogy proves is that a game breaking 7 footer is more valuable than a Point Guard. Shocking Stuff
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I must say, per 36 min or per 48 min adjusted stats are absolute garbage.
Who cares what two different players stats would look like if they played the same amount of time. Being able to be on the court for more minutes is a "talent" in and of itself. Conversely, it could very easily be argued that if the player who plays less minutes tried to play more they would become a net negative on-court. Ths also assumes the player they are being replaced with s contributing at least as much, which is totally unreliable.
exactly, and whos to say that certain players dont turn it on at different times of a game. Why should somebody be rewarded for playing less minutes. Stupid arguement. Tp for you.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Wasn't z bo hurt and a nick young buzzer beater the difference? And what happened against Tony parker? Chris Paul isn't a top 5 player...I don't even see how you could even put him over a dirk nowitzki who has an mvp and recently led his average team to a title.....if you think Chris Paul is the greatest pg ever fine but when I watch him I don't see anything special after watching rondo regularly, if you think hes better Bc of free throw shooting....fine so be it but you still overrate him
I think you underrate him if you're putting him behind Dirk Nowitzki or outside the top-5.
LeBron, Dwight, Durant, Chris Paul, in that order.
Yep.
That 5th guy is the hardest one to name.
In our fantasy basketball league, someone took James Harden 5th. Definitely the hardest to name. Chris Paul is one of the top 4, though.
If we're just looking at stats... Kevin Love is in the top 5.
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Chris Paul looked awesome last night. He's unstoppable when he wants to be.
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Shouldnt the best pg in the game be able to carve up an average defensive spurs team like Russell westbrook and James harden for even 1 win in that series?
No. Teams win playoff games not individuals.
Some of the best PGs ever to play never won a championship or never won one while in their prime while starring for a team. When it comes to playoff basketball having a great PG on your team might be the position you least want to have your team star playing.
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If you replace dirk nowitzki wit Chris Paul on the mavericks title team do you make it out of the first round? Sorry not a top player...top pg sure...better than rondo? Eh barely
And Clippers with Dirk? Are they making it past even Grizzlies with Dirk in place of Paul?
This is basketball and these are humans we are talking about, not plug-in devices.
Unfortunately, things don't work out like that.
There isn't a single player who can single-handedly take his team to a championship-winning caliber on his own in this league. Not even LeBron James, who is way above the others the way he's playing.
Because if he was able to, he would stay where he was and won a title there, but he knew he himself was never going to be enough to win it all by himself.
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I think this discussion is complicated by people's irritation at how Paul and Deron Williams have been regularly rated above Rondo, even though neither one has been able to win at the level you'd expect from the "best point guard in the league".
Mike
Which would make a ton of sense if basketball were an individual sport, sadly it is a team sport.
By the same token the "team sport" aspect is at the heart of many of the pro Rondo arguments. Rondo impacts the game in so many ways that his contribution to the team is generally greater than many players that put up better stats than him.
While that is true about Rondo, it is also true about Paul.
More true about Paul than any other pg Rondo's compared to, but less true (IMO) than it is about Rondo, especially in the playoffs.
I'd disagree with that, both in the season and the playoffs, but I guess that can be subjective since it is impossible to truly quantify.
My feeling is Rondo's able to take over games on a fairly regular basis without scoring more than a handful of points. That's awfully rare for players that aren't shot-blocking rebounders like Wallace/Mutombo or the like. I agree it's hard to quantify.
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
actually as much as I love Rondo and think he should be #1 pg really soon
I won't count CP3 out at ALL. When he was with the Hornet, he was able to bring them to the 2nd round and the same thing with the Clippers.
In the playoffs, he help lead the team past the Grizzlies who were projected to win the series. Game 1 24 pt game comeback was a great comeback.
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Championships might not be everything but they sure do matter alot when comparing players. Not so much role players but leaders of a team. If two players are close in skill and one player has championships and the other doesn't then im leaning more towards the guy that led *Or was a huge part* his team to a ring over the guy that didn't. Paul hasn't even sniffed a championship ring yet. Rondo has one *Even tho he wasn't the leader that year* and hes been to another final *Shoulda won that but the refs screwed us*. Rondo also had a unbelievable game 2 against the heat *Refs screwed us in that to we should have won*. Correct me if im wrong but has chris paul ever even lead his team past the second round yet?
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Championships might not be everything but they sure do matter alot when comparing players. Not so much role players but leaders of a team. If two players are close in skill and one player has championships and the other doesn't then im leaning more towards the guy that led *Or was a huge part* his team to a ring over the guy that didn't. Paul hasn't even sniffed a championship ring yet. Rondo has one *Even tho he wasn't the leader that year* and hes been to another final *Shoulda won that but the refs screwed us*. Rondo also had a unbelievable game 2 against the heat *Refs screwed us in that to we should have won*. Correct me if im wrong but has chris paul ever even lead his team past the second round yet?
Well, by that very narrow, one-sided criteria that ignores coaches, teammates, and about a million other variables, where does that rank CP3 in the NBA?
Certainly below Tony Parker who has three championships and might head the PG list, below Rondo, below D-Rose whose team went to the Eastern Finals last year, below DeRon whose Jazz team went to the Western Finals against the Lakers, below Nash whose Suns team went to the Western Finals agaisnt the Lakers fairly recently, below Westbrook whose team went to the Finals this past season and the Western Finals last season.
Does CP3 even crack the top 10? Is he even in the top 50 of overall players?
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
And Chris Paul scores more than Rondo does in the playoffs. I don't know where you are getting your information from.
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
And Chris Paul scores more than Rondo does in the playoffs. I don't know where you are getting your information from.
I don't mean tanking as "I'm gonna put in no effort", but as in "the Bobcats suck and I will play with 70% energy to preserve myself for the playoffs and not to risk injury just to make flashy plays and have crazy stats".
What's wrong with that?
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
And Chris Paul scores more than Rondo does in the playoffs. I don't know where you are getting your information from.
I don't mean tanking as "I'm gonna put in no effort", but as in "the Bobcats suck and I will play with 70% energy to preserve myself for the playoffs and not to risk injury just to make flashy plays and have crazy stats".
What's wrong with that?
Some guys can give full effort every night. Guess you're saying he's not one of those guys. That's cool.
Would've liked to see more 44-10-8 games against the HEAT. We might've won the series. Hopefully he wasn't saving energy during those games, since he only had one 44-10-8 in that series (in OT, not in regulation).
Just cool to know that our PG could average 10 more PPG than Jordan in his prime but chooses not to. And scores less than CP3 in the playoffs.
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
I think it's reasonably prudent that Rondo not play as aggressively during the season as he does during the playoffs. We're not better off with our best player fighting through more nagging injuries than he gets now. OTOH, he learned about (somewhat) coasting through the season from PP/KG/RA. I'm assuming that you're not interested in that type of player?
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
And Chris Paul scores more than Rondo does in the playoffs. I don't know where you are getting your information from.
I don't mean tanking as "I'm gonna put in no effort", but as in "the Bobcats suck and I will play with 70% energy to preserve myself for the playoffs and not to risk injury just to make flashy plays and have crazy stats".
What's wrong with that?
Some guys can give full effort every night. Guess you're saying he's not one of those guys. That's cool.
Would've liked to see more 44-10-8 games against the HEAT. We might've won the series. Hopefully he wasn't saving energy during those games, since he only had one 44-10-8 in that series (in OT, not in regulation).
Just cool to know that our PG could average 10 more PPG than Jordan in his prime but chooses not to. And scores less than CP3 in the playoffs.
Well of course, but how would you like to have Rondo out for the playoffs just because he broke his foot on a dunk against the Bobcats, while riding on a 30pt lead?
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Neither MJ nor LeBron could average 44/10/9 in today's NBA. Thinking Rondo can is just silly.
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Neither MJ nor LeBron could average 44/10/9 in today's NBA. Thinking Rondo can is just silly.
I'm not being literal there, I'm just making a point that if Rondo risked injuries, missed games and getting beaten in the playoffs by playing a 100% every single night, he would too have overblown stats.
Nobody ever played a 100% always.. You play with a different amount of effort against AJ Price and Derrick Rose..
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Neither MJ nor LeBron could average 44/10/9 in today's NBA. Thinking Rondo can is just silly.
I'm not being literal there, I'm just making a point that if Rondo risked injuries, missed games and getting beaten in the playoffs by playing a 100% every single night, he would too have overblown stats.
Nobody ever played a 100% always.. You play with a different amount of effort against AJ Price and Derrick Rose..
And just what makes you think that CP3, Deron or any other top PG not named Rondo isn't doing the same thing?
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I'm still trying to process the idea that Rondo playing more minutes is anything other than how sad our on-ball guard situation is.
Semi-related, CP3 and the Clips trounced Miami last night. And I enjoyed the hell out of it.
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I'm still trying to process the idea that Rondo playing more minutes is anything other than how sad our on-ball guard situation is.
Semi-related, CP3 and the Clips trounced Miami last night. And I enjoyed the hell out of it.
Last night: Rondo 25 mins
It's coming together
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
I think it's reasonably prudent that Rondo not play as aggressively during the season as he does during the playoffs. We're not better off with our best player fighting through more nagging injuries than he gets now. OTOH, he learned about (somewhat) coasting through the season from PP/KG/RA. I'm assuming that you're not interested in that type of player?
He should probably play less minutes then if that is the goal.
And KG, Paul, and Ray were a bit older, no? Was KG coasting in his mid 20s? You assume incorrectly.
There's also a pretty big difference between slowing things down and deciding to purposely not play your best basketball.
By the way, where was Rondo's 44/10/8 in Game 7 against Miami if he can drop those games at will? I'd like to have had Banner 18 last year. Saving it for next year, maybe?
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Championships might not be everything but they sure do matter alot when comparing players. Not so much role players but leaders of a team. If two players are close in skill and one player has championships and the other doesn't then im leaning more towards the guy that led *Or was a huge part* his team to a ring over the guy that didn't. Paul hasn't even sniffed a championship ring yet. Rondo has one *Even tho he wasn't the leader that year* and hes been to another final *Shoulda won that but the refs screwed us*. Rondo also had a unbelievable game 2 against the heat *Refs screwed us in that to we should have won*. Correct me if im wrong but has chris paul ever even lead his team past the second round yet?
Well, by that very narrow, one-sided criteria that ignores coaches, teammates, and about a million other variables, where does that rank CP3 in the NBA?
Certainly below Tony Parker who has three championships and might head the PG list, below Rondo, below D-Rose whose team went to the Eastern Finals last year, below DeRon whose Jazz team went to the Western Finals against the Lakers, below Nash whose Suns team went to the Western Finals agaisnt the Lakers fairly recently, below Westbrook whose team went to the Finals this past season and the Western Finals last season.
Does CP3 even crack the top 10? Is he even in the top 50 of overall players?
I don't want to speak for Smurf, but I think the point he is making is that when players are fairly evenly matched that playoff success (particularly, being a champion) can clearly tip the scales in one player's favor.
It may not be fair to really good players playing for bad or mediocre teams, but there is an expectation that great players need to win.
Rondo is a proven winner when the games matter most. That counts for a lot, in my book.
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
I think it's reasonably prudent that Rondo not play as aggressively during the season as he does during the playoffs. We're not better off with our best player fighting through more nagging injuries than he gets now. OTOH, he learned about (somewhat) coasting through the season from PP/KG/RA. I'm assuming that you're not interested in that type of player?
He should probably play less minutes then if that is the goal.
It's not the minutes, it's the pounding that he would take.
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It's cool when CP and Deron play their backsides off against the Bobcats and Wizards and pump up good stats, but I really want to see them racking up 44/10/8 against the best team in the NBA.
Rondo could average that if he wanted, but he doesn't. The quality that makes Rondo deserve to be a Top 5 player in general is his ability to always show up when needed and to outplay basically anyone. Where are CP and Deron in the playoffs and against Rajon? Oh right, they play on mediocre teams and RR always shuts 'em down.
Just because the NBA promotes the Clips or Lakers more than everyone else (except the Heat), it doesn't mean they are really legitimate contenders? The Lakers are old and have a terrible bench, but Clips are in fact good, but 2nd round is their ceiling, and the lobs and flashy plays aren't going to buy 'em nothing else than highlight clips on youtube..
If Rondo could average 44/10/8 then he should, and we'd have the last 5 championships. What a slacker.
Trust me, he could. What's the point in playing your mind off vs the Bobcats/Hornets/Nets/Wizards?
So are you saying he tanks it for most of the season? Not really the type of player I'd be interested in. Some players are able to play their best against all competition. Ask Michael Jordan, the driving force behind a 72 win team. Why take nights off? Is he tired?
I think it's reasonably prudent that Rondo not play as aggressively during the season as he does during the playoffs. We're not better off with our best player fighting through more nagging injuries than he gets now. OTOH, he learned about (somewhat) coasting through the season from PP/KG/RA. I'm assuming that you're not interested in that type of player?
He should probably play less minutes then if that is the goal.
It's not the minutes, it's the pounding that he would take.
Statistically speaking, his numbers are pretty similar in the regular season and the postseason. In some areas, worse. This year, for instance, per 36 minutes, he scored 1.4 more points, 1.2 more rebounds, and 1.6 less assists. Other postseasons have similarly marginal increases and decreases in given areas.
The difference between "tank mode season" Rondo and "full effort playoff" Rondo seems to be truly no difference at all.
Regardless, my intent was to say that the idea that CP3 inflates his stats against poor teams and that is why he outscores Rondo is pretty ridiculous.
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
Because I'm dumb enough to continue to reply, I guess. I'll stop now.
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
Because I'm dumb enough to continue to reply, I guess. I'll stop now.
Yeah your post on this topic was so on point
The only thing Rondo has over Paul is his rebounding, and assists are about equal
I guess everyone overlooks the advantages Paul has in shooting, consistent play night after night, steals, scoring in crunch time huh? ::)
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Yes
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CP3 is the the best PG in the NBA.
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People will continue to make excuses for Paul and continue to state that Rondo gets to play with 3 HOF even though said HOF's were certainly past their prime.
Clippers were supposedly title contenders last year and then fell flat on their face and people made excuses. Now clippers are supposedly title contenders this year but everyone is already lining up excuses for them.
Paul apparently turns his team into a title contender but at the same time has little chance of making a playoff run due to his supporting cast. My god that's laughable
They made it the 2nd round? How is it falling on their face?
And just because Paul is a better player, how is that a slight at Rondo who is a top 5 PG?
Ok the clips barely made into the second round (with homecourt?) And then had about as an embarrassing second round as you can have. To a team that pretty much got smoked in the WCF.
Are the clippers a title contending team this year? It seems many people think they are including several people you quoted in this thread (for some unknown reason). So how well should a title contending team with Paul do?
They were the 5th seed against Memphis. (and Paul played really well to push them over the edge)
Huh? Played really well against the Grizz? He played decent I certainly wouldnt say he played really well or raised his game in any sort of fashion. Did you watch that series? I did but took a look at the boxscores just in case I missed something drastic. Nope I didn't...oh and beware do not take a look at his games against the spurs.
I guess its somewhat of an accomplishment to win a round in the playoffs against a team that finished one game ahead of you. Maybe that title contending team can do it again this year!
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
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Stats per 36 and 48 minutes are worthless and don't tell anything. Only for stat nerds like Hollinger.
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If you replace dirk nowitzki wit Chris Paul on the mavericks title team do you make it out of the first round? Sorry not a top player...top pg sure...better than rondo? Eh barely
Are you of the opinion that if you replaced Dirk Nowinski, one of the most dominate big men of this generation, with Rajon Rondo, they go any farther? For sure not.
All your analogy proves is that a game breaking 7 footer is more valuable than a Point Guard. Shocking Stuff
I haven't argued Rondo is better.. I think its close and they're top pgs
I'm arguing against Paul being a top 5 player
Ok so how is he easily a better player then dirk then if dirk is more valuable,, won an mvp and carried his team to a title? Not seeing it
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Chris Paul looked awesome last night. He's unstoppable when he wants to be.
The clippers didn't win that game because of Chris paul they won it because of Blake's 22 and 14 and Crawford and bledsoe combining for 34 off the bench
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
I don't think he will be there I think its absolutely a joke to call him the 4th best player in the Nba...but if he is and he cant lead his team to the conference finals, how the heck is that not a failed season? As it will be for any supposed top 5 player with a good cast exiting early
I don't see this as homerism considering I'm saying derrick rose is a top 5 player in the Nba and Chris Paul is a top pg
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
I don't think he will be there I think its absolutely a joke to call him the 4th best player in the Nba...but if he is and he cant lead his team to the conference finals, how the heck is that not a failed season? As it will be for any supposed top 5 player with a good cast exiting early
I don't see this as homerism considering I'm saying derrick rose is a top 5 player in the Nba and Chris Paul is a top pg
Who are your top 5 players for this year (2012-2013)?
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
I don't think he will be there I think its absolutely a joke to call him the 4th best player in the Nba...but if he is and he cant lead his team to the conference finals, how the heck is that not a failed season? As it will be for any supposed top 5 player with a good cast exiting early
I don't see this as homerism considering I'm saying derrick rose is a top 5 player in the Nba and Chris Paul is a top pg
Yeah I don't think he needs to reach the conference finals but if he lucky escapes the first round against a team that finished 1 game ahead of them and then he proceeds to wet the bed in the second round, I will think its a little bit of a joke if people keep defending him.
Afterall if you are a top 5 player in a supposed title contending team that would be pretty pathetic.
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
Because I'm dumb enough to continue to reply, I guess. I'll stop now.
Yeah your post on this topic was so on point
The only thing Rondo has over Paul is his rebounding, and assists are about equal
I guess everyone overlooks the advantages Paul has in shooting, consistent play night after night, steals, scoring in crunch time huh? ::)
I disagree that Paul's more consistent than Rondo, I think that Paul's larger scoring role in his offense makes it seem that way. The Rondo who's on one of the longest double-digit assist streaks in nba history is clearly more consistent than he was earlier in the big three era.
Aside from that, I don't think it's true that the only thing that Rondo has over Paul is rebounding. I think that Paul is as good or better than most pgs in most facets of the game but still below Rondo. As an overall individual player Paul's shooting probably gives him the edge but Rondo's edge in the non-scoring skills keeps them fairly close.
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
I don't think he will be there I think its absolutely a joke to call him the 4th best player in the Nba...but if he is and he cant lead his team to the conference finals, how the heck is that not a failed season? As it will be for any supposed top 5 player with a good cast exiting early
I don't see this as homerism considering I'm saying derrick rose is a top 5 player in the Nba and Chris Paul is a top pg
Who are your top 5 players for this year (2012-2013)?
If we are basing it off so far this season and that's it then rondo has as good a case as Paul, period.
but injuries aside...lebron,durant,Howard,rose, carmelo, kobe
Not sure how Chris Paul is better then any of those players
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
I don't think he will be there I think its absolutely a joke to call him the 4th best player in the Nba...but if he is and he cant lead his team to the conference finals, how the heck is that not a failed season? As it will be for any supposed top 5 player with a good cast exiting early
I don't see this as homerism considering I'm saying derrick rose is a top 5 player in the Nba and Chris Paul is a top pg
Who are your top 5 players for this year (2012-2013)?
If we are basing it off so far this season and that's it then rondo has as good a case as Paul, period.
but injuries aside...lebron,durant,Howard,rose, carmelo, kobe
Not sure how Chris Paul is better then any of those players
So then you must think, by your own logic, that the Western Finals is Thunder vs. Lakers, and the Eastern Finals is HEAT vs. Bulls vs. Knicks?
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Of course Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Why do we have 12 pages discussing an easy topic?
So then the clippers should easily be finals bound
Until then
Chris Paul's done nothing....average at best
So you are expecting all top 5 players to be in the Finals?
Does that mean all 5 have to be on only two teams?
Top 5 players with good teams around them should be in the conference finals at least or its a failure.
Derrick rose top 5 player...rondo and Chris Paul top 5 pgs
So in the West: Durrant, Howard and Paul will all be in the conference finals.
Whichever one isn't there its a failed season...my guess is it wont be a Chris Paul led team but if hes a top 5 player then its probable
Actually, by your logic he shouldn't be in the conference finals. If the player rankings are as follows:
1. LeBron, 2. Dwight, 3. Durant, 4. CP3, or something similar, then shouldn't Dwight face Durant in the conference finals?
Why should 4 be better than 2 and 3?
Only four teams makes the conference finals anyway, so if the top 5 players are on 5 different teams, it is impossible for all 5 to make the conference finals. Especially if 3 of the top 4 are in the same conference.
I don't think he will be there I think its absolutely a joke to call him the 4th best player in the Nba...but if he is and he cant lead his team to the conference finals, how the heck is that not a failed season? As it will be for any supposed top 5 player with a good cast exiting early
I don't see this as homerism considering I'm saying derrick rose is a top 5 player in the Nba and Chris Paul is a top pg
Who are your top 5 players for this year (2012-2013)?
If we are basing it off so far this season and that's it then rondo has as good a case as Paul, period.
but injuries aside...lebron,durant,Howard,rose, carmelo, kobe
Not sure how Chris Paul is better then any of those players
So then you must think, by your own logic, that the Western Finals is Thunder vs. Lakers, and the Eastern Finals is HEAT vs. Bulls vs. Knicks?
Nope but it will be a failed season for every one of those teams outside the bulls Bc of roses injury if they don't make it to the conference finals. At least 3 of those teams will be there though I'm hoping the celtics are the exception
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I dont know if Paul is still better than Rondo, but they sure are both a heck of a lot better than Deron Williams.
Man I cant stand his game. I hate watching the Nets because they are just a dumb, dumb team. Too much isolation, too many jumpers, and not enough movement on either end of the floor. I cant wait til our defense shapes up and we start boxing out and we get to play them again.