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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: EJPLAYA on November 12, 2012, 10:24:26 PM

Title: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: EJPLAYA on November 12, 2012, 10:24:26 PM
I love Paul and he has done a lot for this franchise so it pains me to say this. Especially after a win tonight. Something needs to be said though because I think a big part of our issues are caused by his shooting woes.

7 games so far this season and he is shooting under 40% from the floor. Only 1 game at 50% or better and that was exactly 50%. He has a game shooting in the teens, one in the 20's, and another barely over 30%. More than half of his games this year would be considered poor shooting nights. Considering he shoots more than any player on the Celtics, and has the worst shooting percentage on the team, shouldn't we be focusing on him as a possible reason we are struggling this year?! The only area he shoots well at is from behind the arc. Maybe it's time to have the Captain reduce his role in the offense and start passing the ball a bit more. I for one would like to see them get Bass a few more jumpers.

Not trying to rip him to shreds. He is definitely still a leader of this squad and should have a role in the offense, however it really ought to be less than it is based on his results. I am getting tired of seeing games with him shooting 6 for 18. It is happening way too often for us to be serious contenders. Everyone on here is ripping Jeff Green and his offensive play, but the Captain is shooting worse. I think its time for you to sit outside the arc and move the ball a bit more please.

Now... Have at me.  ;D
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Mazingerz on November 12, 2012, 10:27:48 PM
He's fine. Will round into form as the games continue.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: letsgoblue86 on November 12, 2012, 10:28:48 PM
Cause he doesn't go to the basket anymore
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on November 12, 2012, 10:28:57 PM
slow start to da season so far he'll get it together eventually he's gettin good shots just missin em at da moment
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: bello_man09 on November 12, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
i feel when he takes too many shots it hurts our team, especially when looks sluggish because paul has his days....I feel he's still the man in the 4th though..cold blooded
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: SCeltic34 on November 12, 2012, 10:33:13 PM
I'm a bit worried about it too.  A lot of shots are flat and short.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: scaryjerry on November 12, 2012, 10:33:27 PM
Nothing to get on you about, youre absolutely right... he should be getting less minutes/ not shooting as much or just taking better shots.
we're potentially a better team with green starting believe it or not...but like Ray, Paul would not take that well
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: blink on November 12, 2012, 10:39:56 PM
Well most of the time shots are flat and short it means that they player has lost his lift from his legs.  Could be too many minutes, but it has been the 3rd game in 4 nights.  Maybe still getting into game shape.  PP was very flat with his shot tonight.  Very noticeable...
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: GreenNote on November 12, 2012, 10:42:26 PM
Good thing I read shooting, at first I understood playing. I guess he needs time to get into his groove or maybe it's a conditioning thing. He doesn't have a lot of arc to begin with so when his legs aren't there his shots are very flat and that reduces the 'size' of the rim. According to Dirk's shooting coach, the ideal angle of the ball going down should be 60 degrees, I don't think Paul's arc is anywhere near that right now
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 12, 2012, 10:43:32 PM
Getting into game shape no doubt... But he averaged 24.5 over the last two games. One bad night and the mob is out? Its unbelievable. We get a win and there is still something to pick on.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Change on November 12, 2012, 10:44:43 PM
His shot isn't fallen right now. He makes up low FG% by getting to the line. 15.7 shots to score 20.8 points. Better points per shot than NBA's leading scorer Carmelo Anthony. Also as a scorer, Pierce has to keep on shooting. Last thing we need is our primary scorer to become hesitant.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: cman88 on November 12, 2012, 10:45:32 PM
he was probably forced to play some extra minutes tonight too with Green twisting his ankle
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: blink on November 12, 2012, 10:47:32 PM
Well I wasn't trying to respond as part of any mob.  I was just trying to throw and explanation out there.  I think PP will be fine.  We are going to need him big time this year.  It was a tough matchup tonight with Deng.  LD always makes PP work hard at both ends of the court.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 12, 2012, 10:50:54 PM
I never worry about Paul...watching him play at Kansas,  he is a PURE shooter as I've ever seen. 

He'll get his shot back up to snuff.   

We were able to win with KG and Pierce not exactly hot shooting the jumper. Dats a good sign.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: EJPLAYA on November 12, 2012, 11:04:09 PM
Getting into game shape no doubt... But he averaged 24.5 over the last two games. One bad night and the mob is out? Its unbelievable. We get a win and there is still something to pick on.

Did you not read the entire post?! It wasn't one bad night. It is the normal for him lately. Lots of shots. Percentage in the 30's. That isn't the recipe for a successful season. Your highest number of shots player can't be the worst percentage shooter.

He shot this poorly in the playoffs last season as well. It wasn't just this few game stretch. He has shot worse and worse the last few years and it is the rare occasion that he is on fire, not the reverse. Not being a "mob", just wondering if he shouldn't share the rock to make us a better team. We definitely aren't going anywhere if this continues. It doesn't matter who the other pieces are.

As far as game shape, how come every one else can be in shape except for Paul. If the entire league was shooting in the 30's then you might have something there. If he isn't in shape then you should be ticked he decided not to work as hard as he should have in the offseason. Especially since he doesn't have many of them left.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: RyNye on November 12, 2012, 11:16:29 PM
Just to throw out some numbers, Paul's shooting 39.4% from the floor this season, below his career average of 44.8%.  So, yes, in a bit of a shooting slump, that is a below average figure.

HOWEVER:

He is shooting 44.8% from 3-point land. His career average is 36.9, and he has never topped 42% for a season. That is pretty good 3-point shooting. He is shooting well from the line, too, which gives him a true shooting percentage of 54.7%, which is above average. SO the shooting slump is not effecting his scoring overly much (in fact, at 20.8ppg, it is his best since before the Big 3 came together).

His PPS is 1.33, which is above average (and, as mentioned, better than Carmelo Anthony at the moment).

He is making 10.3 free throw attempts per game. So he is getting to the line a lot. This is also his best since 2006-7.

He is also averaging 6.8 rebounds per game. That is a career high.

3.3 assists per game is low for him (career 3.8), but still not bad for a SF.

He is also racking up a decent number of steals, and avoiding turnovers.

All in all, despite the shooting slump, he is still playing pretty danged good. Gotta hand it to the Capt, he gets it done one way or another.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: j804 on November 12, 2012, 11:22:44 PM
His shot isn't fallen right now. He makes up low FG% by getting to the line. 15.7 shots to score 20.8 points. Better points per shot than NBA's leading scorer Carmelo Anthony. Also as a scorer, Pierce has to keep on shooting. Last thing we need is our primary scorer to become hesitant.
Pierce is our scoring rock, he is going to continue to shoot we need him to stay aggressive especially with Green and other guys not making a big impact on that end yet
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: EJPLAYA on November 12, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
Just to throw out some numbers, Paul's shooting 39.4% from the floor this season, below his career average of 44.8%.  So, yes, in a bit of a shooting slump, that is a below average figure.

HOWEVER:

He is shooting 44.8% from 3-point land. His career average is 36.9, and he has never topped 42% for a season. That is pretty good 3-point shooting. He is shooting well from the line, too, which gives him a true shooting percentage of 54.7%, which is above average. SO the shooting slump is not effecting his scoring overly much (in fact, at 20.8ppg, it is his best since before the Big 3 came together).

His PPS is 1.33, which is above average (and, as mentioned, better than Carmelo Anthony at the moment).

He is making 10.3 free throw attempts per game. So he is getting to the line a lot. This is also his best since 2006-7.

He is also averaging 6.8 rebounds per game. That is a career high.

3.3 assists per game is low for him (career 3.8), but still not bad for a SF.

He is also racking up a decent number of steals, and avoiding turnovers.

All in all, despite the shooting slump, he is still playing pretty danged good. Gotta hand it to the Capt, he gets it done one way or another.

TP. Lots of good information and statistics there. He is doing other things well. I mentioned he is shooting very well from the 3pt line. As you point out he is taking a lot of free throws as well and hitting them at a nice clip. Keep in mind however that when he gets fouled on these shots that turn into free throws, they don't count the shot attempt unless he makes an and one which isn't often for him. That means he is shooting  5 more times a game than what his shot attempts show.

What I am trying to point out, is that considering the fact that he is shooting so poorly from the floor (other than the 3) maybe he should take 6-7 shots less per game and get those to teammates who are hitting a better percentage. We can't return to the days of getting it into Pauls hands and everyone standing around and watching him try and score. That was losing basketball. Just like watching Rondo try and create off the dribble until the last seconds of the clock. This team has a problem on offense because they don't pass the ball around enough. Ball movement creates easier baskets and the entire team, including Paul, will benefit with a much higher shooting percentage. Then we put less pressure on our bench. Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: EJPLAYA on November 12, 2012, 11:26:44 PM
His shot isn't fallen right now. He makes up low FG% by getting to the line. 15.7 shots to score 20.8 points. Better points per shot than NBA's leading scorer Carmelo Anthony. Also as a scorer, Pierce has to keep on shooting. Last thing we need is our primary scorer to become hesitant.
Pierce is our scoring rock, he is going to continue to shoot we need him to stay aggressive especially with Green and other guys not making a big impact on that end yet

He is shooting "rocks" or bricks rather lately. Considering Green and every other player on the roster is shooting better than Pierce maybe it is HIM that isn't making as big an impact as he should.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 12, 2012, 11:40:17 PM
What annoys me is when pierce is missing all game long and he continues to shoot. And then he misses again, and he shoots again, and then he misses again..........he shoots again.......another miss. Sometimes when you know your shot is off you need to stop shooting the ****ing ball. Or at least if you know your shot is off take it to the basket and stop pulling up for jumpshots!! Terry is a good closer too and the last few games his shot has been on. Paul doesn't HAVE to close every night especially if his shot is off. Let terry shoot more in the 4th if he has it going. Or even KG. I have definitely been noticing pierce have alot of off shooting nights lately even going back to last year.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: j804 on November 13, 2012, 03:06:39 AM
His shot isn't fallen right now. He makes up low FG% by getting to the line. 15.7 shots to score 20.8 points. Better points per shot than NBA's leading scorer Carmelo Anthony. Also as a scorer, Pierce has to keep on shooting. Last thing we need is our primary scorer to become hesitant.
Pierce is our scoring rock, he is going to continue to shoot we need him to stay aggressive especially with Green and other guys not making a big impact on that end yet

He is shooting "rocks" or bricks rather lately. Considering Green and every other player on the roster is shooting better than Pierce maybe it is HIM that isn't making as big an impact as he should.
well we can agree to disagree haven't seen anything bad from Pierce out there shooting wise our team as it is now needs his offense (our bench isn't getting it done yet), Green isn't aggressive regardless of stats if his percentage is better he doesn't even want the ball half the time
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 13, 2012, 06:50:22 AM
His shot isn't fallen right now. He makes up low FG% by getting to the line. 15.7 shots to score 20.8 points. Better points per shot than NBA's leading scorer Carmelo Anthony. Also as a scorer, Pierce has to keep on shooting. Last thing we need is our primary scorer to become hesitant.
Pierce is our scoring rock, he is going to continue to shoot we need him to stay aggressive especially with Green and other guys not making a big impact on that end yet

He is shooting "rocks" or bricks rather lately. Considering Green and every other player on the roster is shooting better than Pierce maybe it is HIM that isn't making as big an impact as he should.
well we can agree to disagree haven't seen anything bad from Pierce out there shooting wise our team as it is now needs his offense (our bench isn't getting it done yet), Green isn't aggressive regardless of stats if his percentage is better he doesn't even want the ball half the time

Then you haven't been paying attention.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: mctyson on November 13, 2012, 07:05:17 AM
Many guys on the team have been shooting below their "normal" percentages.  The team is shooting only 34% from 3.  That will change.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 13, 2012, 07:42:11 AM
I too think PP will be fine before the year is out.   I have not been fond of his shot selection so far.  Some of the shots he has taken have been ill advised.   This is expected losing a guy like Ray it might be harder for him to get open looks.   I would like to see him attack the hole more with his inside game.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 13, 2012, 08:16:13 AM
Even though Pierce is shooting poorly, he's still considered to be playing decently.

He's rebounding, playing defense, distributing, being a leader. He's not scoring efficiently but he's scoring in crunch time, he's not exactly forcing the issue and playing within the team concept. It looks like he's doing it this season more than ever.

And what are the chances he's going to keep struggling from the field?

I'm very happy with this Pierce. I'd take this Pierce all day every day over many, many players.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: kozlodoev on November 13, 2012, 08:30:35 AM
Just to throw out some numbers, Paul's shooting 39.4% from the floor this season, below his career average of 44.8%.  So, yes, in a bit of a shooting slump, that is a below average figure.

HOWEVER:

He is shooting 44.8% from 3-point land. His career average is 36.9, and he has never topped 42% for a season. That is pretty good 3-point shooting. He is shooting well from the line, too, which gives him a true shooting percentage of 54.7%, which is above average. SO the shooting slump is not effecting his scoring overly much (in fact, at 20.8ppg, it is his best since before the Big 3 came together).

His PPS is 1.33, which is above average (and, as mentioned, better than Carmelo Anthony at the moment).

He is making 10.3 free throw attempts per game. So he is getting to the line a lot. This is also his best since 2006-7.

He is also averaging 6.8 rebounds per game. That is a career high.

3.3 assists per game is low for him (career 3.8), but still not bad for a SF.

He is also racking up a decent number of steals, and avoiding turnovers.

All in all, despite the shooting slump, he is still playing pretty danged good. Gotta hand it to the Capt, he gets it done one way or another.
Yes, his career stats are all nice and well. The fact remains that he's been chucking horrible jumpers, and not playing nearly as sharp as he could. He's either going to play himself into better shape, or we'll have to live with the brave new world where Pierce and Garnett are getting up there in age.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: CapnDunks on November 13, 2012, 08:53:38 AM
Overreacting. He was injured in the playoffs. People are talking about him missing and missing without getting himself into a rhythm. He shot himself into rhythm just a few days ago against the Bucks. He started hitting his typical stepbacks and going inside. Everything people are complaining about. And without that, Ellis would have probably run away with the game.

I've only seen a handful of shots so far that I wouldn't want him taking, I still trust him to make those decisions. How often has he hit a contested dagger 3 after being cold all night? I say let him keep shooting.

I do agree as far as limiting his minutes. Having a fresh PP in the playoffs would be huge.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 13, 2012, 09:36:50 AM
Getting into game shape no doubt... But he averaged 24.5 over the last two games. One bad night and the mob is out? Its unbelievable. We get a win and there is still something to pick on.

Did you not read the entire post?! It wasn't one bad night. It is the normal for him lately. Lots of shots. Percentage in the 30's. That isn't the recipe for a successful season. Your highest number of shots player can't be the worst percentage shooter.

He shot this poorly in the playoffs last season as well. It wasn't just this few game stretch. He has shot worse and worse the last few years and it is the rare occasion that he is on fire, not the reverse. Not being a "mob", just wondering if he shouldn't share the rock to make us a better team. We definitely aren't going anywhere if this continues. It doesn't matter who the other pieces are.

As far as game shape, how come every one else can be in shape except for Paul. If the entire league was shooting in the 30's then you might have something there. If he isn't in shape then you should be ticked he decided not to work as hard as he should have in the offseason. Especially since he doesn't have many of them left.

Not in game shape could mean a lot of things. Nursing or rehabbing injuries, getting into the flow or routine of the 82 game season. He started off slow at the beginning of a shortened season and is getting older why wouldn't he take a while to get into rhythm? I'm not "ticked" that our captain and best offensive player is falling to Father Time that's inevitable.

"He's shot worse and worse in the last few years" really? By whose stat sheet yours? In 08-09 he was at 45.7%, in 09-10 he shot 47.1%, and in 10-11 he shot 49%! Yes last year he dropped to 44% but with the lock out, ray being hurt, I still don't think that's bad. Plus he averaged more points.

Pierce is the best scorer on our team. To take the ball out of his hands and ask for less shots after one bad game is a complete overreaction. If any nitpicking should be done, it's that pierce should take more shots driving to the basket and less jumpers. That would help his percentage and get us to the line more.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 13, 2012, 09:43:49 AM
What annoys me is when pierce is missing all game long and he continues to shoot. And then he misses again, and he shoots again, and then he misses again..........he shoots again.......another miss. Sometimes when you know your shot is off you need to stop shooting the ****ing ball. Or at least if you know your shot is off take it to the basket and stop pulling up for jumpshots!! Terry is a good closer too and the last few games his shot has been on. Paul doesn't HAVE to close every night especially if his shot is off. Let terry shoot more in the 4th if he has it going. Or even KG. I have definitely been noticing pierce have alot of off shooting nights lately even going back to last year.

Wow. Couldn't disagree more. Maybe just watching your shot selection but every shooter knows that when your missing the shots, you're coach is going to say, "keep shooting". Shooters and scorers do exactly that shoot and score. There is no way I take that away on a game no matter how bad they are missing.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: KGs Knee on November 13, 2012, 11:46:51 AM
Pierce's "shooting woes" are from one specific area.  Mid-range two point jumpshots.  That is it.  He is hitting three's at a career high percentage and getting to the free throw line 10 times per game, where he is shooting in the high 80% range.

People need to stop trippin.  The Truth is still the Truth.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 13, 2012, 01:43:21 PM
Pierce's "shooting woes" are from one specific area.  Mid-range two point jumpshots.  That is it.  He is hitting three's at a career high percentage and getting to the free throw line 10 times per game, where he is shooting in the high 80% range.

People need to stop trippin.  The Truth is still the Truth.

Amen. TP.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 13, 2012, 01:47:37 PM
He's fine.  He's shooting 41% from three.  His averages are about the same as they have always been.  He's just shooting poorly right now.  It's been 7 games.  You can't read anything into 7 games.  After 7 games people assume Jeff Green is a dud.  It's silly.  So far after 7 games, Rondo is the slightly ahead of Chris Paul in statistical efficiency.  We know in time stuff will average out.   Kinda like you know the Lakers are still going to win 60+ games despite their slow start... but Kobe isn't going to continue to have shooting percentages of 54%/43%/92% .... it's been 7 games.  Kobe hasn't cracked 50% shooting or 40% from three or 90% from the line EVER in his career.  It's highly unlikely it continues.
Title: Re: Why is The Truth Shooting so Consistently Awful Lately?!
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 13, 2012, 03:09:00 PM
What annoys me is when pierce is missing all game long and he continues to shoot. And then he misses again, and he shoots again, and then he misses again..........he shoots again.......another miss. Sometimes when you know your shot is off you need to stop shooting the ****ing ball. Or at least if you know your shot is off take it to the basket and stop pulling up for jumpshots!! Terry is a good closer too and the last few games his shot has been on. Paul doesn't HAVE to close every night especially if his shot is off. Let terry shoot more in the 4th if he has it going. Or even KG. I have definitely been noticing pierce have alot of off shooting nights lately even going back to last year.

Wow. Couldn't disagree more. Maybe just watching your shot selection but every shooter knows that when your missing the shots, you're coach is going to say, "keep shooting". Shooters and scorers do exactly that shoot and score. There is no way I take that away on a game no matter how bad they are missing.

I know what coaches say but i disagree. If you have been missing jumpers all night long you should STOP shooting UNLESS you are wide open. Drive to the basket or pass the ball if you know its not your day. Keep shooting and missing knowing you don't have it that day is only hurting the team. I think the whole keep shooting even if you miss 20 in a row is beyond stupid especially when the game is on the line. How about give it to someone that does have it going on that day?